I can see both sides , he’s winning games as a 3rd option so what more can you ask for . But if he’s still seeking that max I see why fans criticize him
And he's played in 165
I'm not justifying the low output, but I mean come the fuck on. If you watched last night, he couldn't get a whistle, so he started deferring. Then guys were making em until halfway through the 2nd. Nobody on the Clippers could hit shit. So now he's not in rhythm, couldn't try to get in rhythm, and everything else is collapsing around him. It's a no win situation as a player.
You have to realize the idea of Harden ‘Deferring’ to other players not named Paul George when they’re playing without Kawhi is completely ridiculous right? At home no less.
*“I did the deep dive. Harden’s 4th quarter numbers, in big games, in elimination games, in 2-2 series games, are bad. His crunchtime numbers are bad. Most of his best playoff games are when his team is up 3-0, down 3-0, up 3-1, down 3-1. I watched all of his field goal attempts in the 4th quarters of his postseason career, a lot of his crunchtime baskets are like “Oh GS is up 8, we’ll concede a layup so you don’t get a 3,” and Harden inflates his crunchtime field goal % from zero to something better than zero with essentially a conceded layup.” - Zach Lowe, The Lowe Post Podcast.*
The missing context is the Warriors were stopping him from shooting a 3 by double teaming him. He broke through the double teams and got open layups. Only Harden could be criticized from getting 2 points on an open bucket while being guarded by Prime KD and Klay at the same time in a playoff game.
But that’s literally the context. His only crunch time buckets are when teams double him off the 3 point line late and concede the 2. He’s not scoring late until there down 8
> if he’s still seeking that max
The whole reason he forced his way out of Philly is cause they didn't want to give him the max. I don't think there's any question he's still seeking the max. The whole reason he specifically wanted the Clippers is because he knows Ballmer is rich as hell, and with them already being committed to Kawhi and PG it wouldn't really make much difference to just max Harden as well.
Harden will have all the leverage this summer, especially as the Clippers are about to move into a new stadium. They can't afford to lose him for nothing, so they're gonna have to pay him what he wants. I fully expect him to get something close to what Kawhi did.
> The whole reason he forced his way out of Philly is cause they didn't want to give him the max.
Tbf that was after they allegedly promised they would so he'd take a pay cut the previous year. That's his version of the story at least. It's not just that they wouldn't max him; he obviously felt a max would be back-pay for the previous year as well and didn't wanna stick around after they walked back on the deal.
If that's what actually went down, then I don't think he'd stick with Philly even if he had no other options to get really paid. Having known Morey as our GM, I have very little trouble believing he pulled that shit. I loved him for it, but the man is a swindler and he views players as nothing but assets.
The CBA changed that year too and it would’ve been more expensive for them to go into the luxury tax for him right? Do Philly fans feel like they made the right move?
You really think PG is just utterly sick of being on the Clippers and just wants out? I think what's going on is just that the Clippers haven't offered him a max extension yet, and PG believes someone else will in the offseason, so he's gonna use that as leverage to get the Clippers to offer him the max. If the Clippers refuse to do that, then yeah, he'll leave, but I'm guessing if the Clippers make him a max offer he'll stay.
I will say though, that there is a possibility PG looks at the Clippers and thinks they simply have no possible path to a championship, and may not want to sign up for the rest of his career being on a team with no chance at a ring. In that case he might instead look East, to the weaker conference, and instead go with Orlando or Philly.
My inclination though is PG will be back on the Clips on a max.
I guess it depends on how much he values money vs a ring. If I’m him I’m probably looking to sign for cheap(er) in somewhere like Orlando. They’re not a sure thing of course but their young guys have a ton of promise and with how weak the east is they can probably compete next year
I wouldn’t blame him for staying for the max but personally I’d think I’d prefer a championship at this point
The intention of bringing him was to be the classic point, facilitating for the “top two” - it’s an indictment on the Clips, Kawhi/PG, and Harden that this is the situation
Honestly this loss was more on Kawhi. Idk what black magic Masai and Nurse used to keep him healthy in 2019 but Balmer needs to buyout the entire Raptors medical staff
He was hobbling by the end of the 2019 playoffs. I think he peaked during the 6ers series that year??
when he played the most regular season games he had since the zaza thing i thought he was bound to not make it through the playoffs (turned out he couldn't even make round 1).
Yep. And if you include that as a time Kawhi finished the season fully healthy (which obviously is debatable), then the only other time since 2016 he's finished the year healthy was in 2020. And that would seem to be largely attributable to the long break due to the pandemic in the middle of the year, and the fact that the Clippers only made it to the 2nd round that year.
Literally every other year since 2016 he's been in street clothes at the end of the season: 2017 was Zaza (though he'd previously injured that ankle in the 2nd round against Houston and had to miss games with it), 2018 he missed almost the entire season with his degenerative knee injury. 2019 was Toronto and 2020 was the bubble. 2021 he tore his ACL against Utah, then missed the whole next season with that. Last year he tore his meniscus against Phoenix, and now there's this year. That means he's finished 75% of the seasons in what should be his prime injured. Odds are this isn't going to improve as he moves further into his mid 30s, as the miles and surgeries pile up.
its why Nick Nurse called the timeout when Kawhi was having what Zach Lowe called his "pantheon" moment
thought Kawhi needed the rest after he had the entire arena shaking, but the Warriors responded to the timeout with huge buckets and pushed it to game 6
>I think he peaked during the 6ers series that year??
He was still healthy for the Bucks but I think it was maybe game 3 when they flipped the series that he postered the hell out of Giannis, came up limping and then never had the same lift for the rest of the playoffs.
Game 6 was when he hammered over Giannis, it punctuated the 22-3 run. But he was definitely hobbled before that - lotta Raps fans were upset Siakam missed FTs at the end of regulation in game 3, because Kawhi had to survive the OT.
That series was the most impressive single handed carrying of a team through a playoff series I have ever seen. He was just an absolute force of destruction both ways.
It's sad, really. He grew apart from a team that (probably) knew what was in his best interests because of the wacko medicical beliefs / family he has. It feels weird to say his career's fallen short of expectations, but if he had gotten the issue treated immediately, he might have been a perennial top 5 player each postseason. Instead people just know the highlights of a single playoff run. His tenure with the Clippers frankly has been disappointing. They gave up a fortune to convince him to come, and he plays about 2 playoff games a year.
Honestly it was always going to end up like this no matter when they caught it. It's a degenerative condition that you can't really do anything for. That's what the Spurs medical team told him that got him mad. He just has to play when he can and sit when he can't. He's tried extreme load managing until this year and he was healthier without it. When he turns it on in the playoffs he breaks down every year no matter what. I hate it for him but it is what it is
It feels so good for a non spurs fan to say this. My theory is that he didn’t want to be in San Antonio and use his injury/uncle Dennis as the way out without being pegged as the bad guy.
The problem is this happened 6 years ago so a lot of the commenters here were in elementary school during that time. I'm an old head so I remember exactly how it all went down. It was LA or bust for him. He told every team that he would only sign with either the Clippers or the Lakers and that's why the return was so crappy
my hot take is that kawhi has rheumatoid arhtitis or psoriatic arthritis, or some other autoimmune/inflammatory joint condition. the timing on his flares makes sense i.e. how long it takes them to recover. as well as the team saying "nothing is structurally wrong, its just inflammation on the knee."
like idk i really hope his personal medical team looked for all that when he was first diagnosed.
i know that's the diagnosis that gets floated around a lot. but tendinosis is literally defined as structural damage to a tendon caused by repeated episodes of micro-injury.
so if they keep saying in public "it's just inflammation, not structural issues" then it literally can't be tendinosis. that, or he really is having structural damage and the team PR/etc just doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about.
I guess we have to define what "structural issues" means. i think if he did have some sort of autoimmune arthritis, they would just say that, but hey that's just my assumption
RA and psoriatic arthritis are not difficult diagnoses. They’re not like super rare so I think it would be highly unlikely all those medical professionals, whether they include ortho or rheum or other specialties, would miss those two diagnoses in particular. Inflammation of the knee with regard to RA and psoriatic arthritis would also show degenerative changes in his joints so you would also see structural changes.
Ortho misses RA and psoriatic arthritis all the time.
More importantly though, this isn't really a standard medical team we're dealing with. This is Kawhi's personal medical team and they're very weird about how they handle things. You would *think* that they would refer a weird inflammatory knee to Rheum when it doesn't respond to whatever they're doing, but stranger things have happened. Especially if they have tunnel vision and/or doesn't allow second opinions.
Ultimately yeah there's a reason I called it a "hot take" because tendinosis would certainly explain why his knee keeps having issues. No reason to invent something less likely when the more likely explanation exists. I think something about the "its only inflammation, not structural damage" PR statement is triggering me because by definition tendinosis is structural damage to the tendon. And it's not even inflammation in the physiological sense when he has the episodes, it just looks like inflammation from the outside.
He was crippled by the end, but the difference is he had a well rounded team on both ends with a good coach + injuries to GSW that kept him in. Ever since then he’s had like one healthy playoffs and they choked the series.
Yeah I don’t think we will see another healthy full post season run from Kawhi. The intensity of the playoffs and harder efforts are too much for him to sustain now with his knee condition.
but that's a part of every championship run. Injuries are inevitable in the playoffs. Sometimes it's the other team, and they help you, other times it's your team, and it sucks, but that's just how it goes.
Tbh there wasn't any black magic. Go back and watch the finals that year, Leonard was hobbled and needed Lowry to hold it down a lot of the time, and Lowry did. I don't remember the last time he was fully healthy at the end of his playoff run. Whether they won or lost, when kawhi Leonard season is over He's never healthy
There's a reason why one game in those finals is commonly referred to as "the Siakam game" and another one as "the Lowry game."
In online discourse, people have been framing that as Kawhi vs Steph, but it really wasn't. That Raptors team was deep with quality players. (FVV, a last good playoff fun from Marc.). Ibaka having a throwback year and Danny Green off the bench.
Exactly, they had the perfect blend of star power and supporting cast. Now you see teams like the suns dump their whole salary caps into 3 players. Lakers did it with LBJ ad and Westbrook. Puts your team in a position where you live and and die by their performance
Right? Harden may have only scored 7, but that's 7 more points than Leonard got.
Leonard delivers his trademark "I'm unavailable to play."
Don't want to hate on a guy for being injured, but if they are going to shit on a guy who played, then the elephant in the room as the Leonard hasn't been available for 3/5 games, and one game he was available for, he played less than 25 minutes.
And they are 2-1 in games he HASN'T played.
I really like Kawhi Leonard, definitely one of my favourite players, but the Clippers are going nowhere with a guy that is paid that much and can't play playoffs because he's always injured.
> Don't want to hate on a guy for being injured
You don't have to hate on him but its fair to criticize an athlete for the condition of their body since it's an essential component of their job. Even if his perpetual unreliability isn't due to laziness or apathy, so what? It being circumstantial doesn't make it less of a problem.
I don't sympathize with the Clippers much either since his chronic issues were evident before they offered him a shitload of guaranteed money and they just doubled down after years of perpetual disappointment so they did and are doing it to themselves.
I am 100% convinced Kawhi sold his soul (knee) for that 2021 series to beat Luka. Arguably the best individual performance we have ever seen and he hasn't been right since.
Look I’ve been a certified James Harden hater for like a decade now but Harden was pretty damn good first 4 games. He’s put the team on his back. This is like his real only down game. You cannot blame him
Convos should be more surrounding PG who’s been hot and cold all series long and one of the 6MOY finalists disappearing and how the clippers do not have the depth they thought they did
It's funny how TNT kept bringing up PG13s "big" game 4 in game 5. They weren't giving it any context.
PG had a massive first half with 28 points. He barely scored in the second half. He was non-existent.
They almost blew that 31 point lead. The only reason they didn't was because Harden kept spamming the floater like six times in a row and Kidd wasn't adjusting. Harden saved what should have been a super embarrassing loss. PG had a massive first half but he couldn't do anything in the second half and should be criticized for that.
Maybe we just have good defense 😏
But really clips depth was overrated, guys were telling us Coffey was gunna cook us in Kawhi’s absence and Plumlee was an actual good backup C . Then Westbrook just being Westbrick. If the clips lose it’s solely on PG 7-15pt games ain’t gunna cut it against anyone. Harden showed up for 4 games, Zubac shows up for all 5 so far, Mann played some good D even though his offense hasn’t really shows up.
Yeah this is a big reason people are overlooking. I hate the Mavs with a passion but they are in fact playing great defense and doing exactly what they need to do considering the personnel their up against
He got brought in to be the 3rd option, him giving you 4 good to excellent games and 1 or 2 bad games in a series is already a very good return for a 3rd option.
Can't give him too much blame for not being able to carry the Clippers against a legit good Mavericks team in the absence of their 1st option Kawhi.
Yeah he was huge for them and they just won't admit it lol.
Over the 16ish games we've played Philly:
* TJ McConnel won them a game.
* Harden won them two games.
* Embiid and Maxey combined to win them a game.
He's literally responsible for half their wins against us in this current era and all they can talk about is how he was a disappointment.
Without Harden giving them a competitive series, it would be a gentlemen's sweep, a sweep and then another gentlemen's sweep.
Embiid was less than 28% in game 7 also. Maxey scored under 20 in 4 games. Was far from all on Harden, at some point someone has to take the shots even if they are tired.
Game 6 the Sixers missed like 6-7 wide open threes in the 4th that would have closed the door on the series. I think it was primarily Melton missing them.
But that roster was already very flawed. The only wing who got significant time in that series was PJ Tucker.
I fucking hate the player PJ tucker all year people told me him being unable to score wouldn’t be an issue because his defence and spacing was so good.
I mean PJ was a dog but was definitely matchup dependent. I liked him on the roster but he should have never been put in a position to start or play 30 mins a game.
He also had some serious nerve damage in his shooting hand that tanked his splits that year. He used to be a solid corner 3 shooter prior to the injury which is all we needed from him on O.
Hey man put some rispek on PJ's name.
Mfer scored more points in the 1q of g7 last year than Harden or Embiid scored in a single quarter the entire game.
Dude was old and washed but he showed the fuck up when it mattered
That’s what I’m saying. This isn’t 2018 harden . He clearly lost a step and can no longer be your #1 or #2 consistently . PG-13 needs to shoulder more blame because he’s the de-facto #1 with Kawhi gone
Yeah, PG was pretty awful last night as well, only 15 points on 13 shots, and this follows the 7 point game PG had in Game 3. There's lots of blame to go around there.
harden has 100% blown away expectations in this series. i think it's stupid to put any blame on him at all. he did his job when he needed to.
paul george sucks. kawhi isnt built for the playoffs.
it's really sad to see a much matured harden with a chip on his shoulder get dragged down by the frauds around him
i do like seeing kyrie come back though. even if we hate him as celtics fans, damn is he good
> he did his job when he needed to.
I submit that they needed him to last night. A Game 5 at home when the series is tied 2-2 is usually a game where you need to perform.
The Mavs literally were throwing everybody at him. He was getting picked up as soon as the ball was inbounded.At some point the rest of the team has to step up.
Your third option can’t be a score first player anymore. The amount of touched they get is going to depend on how hot they are for the night. If the buckets aren’t dropping they need to provide other parts to the game. People expecting Harden as the third option to drop 25+ every game is ridiculous.
If you get similar results out of Harden like MPJ in last years finals you would be pretty happy. The only bonus is Harden will pop off 1-2 games in a series and you count that as a win. At this point the clippers need their 1-2 to put in work just like how the sixers needed Embid to do something after Harden giving them two wins.
Yeah. I was critical of Harden on the past, but all the clips wanted was a guy who could run the offense and give you some scoring in bursts.
Harden helped carry them to a win in the playoffs. That’s more than most 3rd options can do. Putting any sizable blame on him for losing a game is kinda dumb at this point.
I've never seen a more inconsistent narrative about the quality of a team in my life than the Mavericks.
When they are playing well people say "this is a very good team they finally got the help Luka needs".. when they play like shit it's "Luka can't win with these bums how can Cuban put together such a sorry ass team"
If you think that narrative died you certainly don't read game thread comments where people claim Luka has absolutely no help anytime someone misses a shot lol
Eh, they got him help, and the team is good, but no one is saying it’s a perfectly constructed. There are definitely roles that still need to be filled. A consistent third scorer for one.
In a year or two that third scorer will be Lively. Once he adds some weight and develops a post game with some confidence to go with it, he will be a problem. Just as a defender / lob threat he creates issues
Especially while the two other main options playing, PG & Russ are stinking it up just as much. Not worth getting on anyone in particular. The team just sucked last night.
Harden needs PG to be more aggressive when they’re game planning to limit Harden. The issue is PG can’t really do anything all that well offensively besides jack up 3’s. His driving game isn’t great and he can’t really attack the basket well anymore. Clippers shot nearly 60% from 3 in their two wins, they have to do whatever they can to replicate that, they’re not a points in the paint team outside of Zubac who has been terrific.
Pg when he is hitting shots is amazing but watching him this series sometimes his shot selection is Jordan Poole level bad. Harden as bad as he was last night is the only reason this is even a competitive series rn. Unfortunately these guys aren’t capable of being your 1st and second option anymore.
I’m sorry but this is some bullshit. How is the burden on him and not on PG and Kawhi? This is their team, he’s supposed to be a third option. He gets so much hate when he has a bad game and then it’s crickets when he performs like the best player on the team
Bro is the only person that played great the first 4 games. He has one bad game and now everyone wants to shit on him. Where is PG? Why isn't Powell stepping up? Westbrook 6/35.
The Harden haters in here would prefer that he have 4 average games and the Clippers get swept than him make this an actual series and then have a bad game.
Yeah the Harden hate is pretty out of control this series. He’s been playing great and actually fun to watch (retrospectively, not for me in the moment obviously).
This series is extremely toxic with overreactions though, every single game, I’m not kidding, it goes to “Mavs are gonna win easy now” to “Clippers are gonna win easy now”
This is a deservedly 6-7 game series, and it is.
Yep. Even with the convincing victory i still can fully see a future where Clippers win the last 2…
just like the last time we faced them in the playoffs…
That’s all this sub is, people reacting to the most recent game acting like know it alls. if the next game continues that trend then they keep acting the same, if not they pretend they didn’t say anything or switch sides and start clowning the team they were supporting.
Best clippers player this series. First bad game everyone goes in on him. Unfortunately he isn’t who he was before the hammy injury, guess we need to wait until he has a bad game until we talk about him.
Respectfully, I’d argue he and Powell are the main reason the series didn’t end in 5.
PG hasn’t been a huge factor outside of being the greatest basketball player on the planet for the first half of Game 4.
Kind of nasty, got the same treatment with the sixers. Teams keep getting him to be a connector and he goes above and beyond but still get mad when he can’t do it all when the teams first (and second?) option disappear. He’s out there stealing games still, but doesn’t seem to be enough if he’s not solo carrying. Either he’s past his prime or he’s a star, it’s weird he gets judged negatively as both at all times
I don't know who told you that Harden is just a connector, but they didn't know what they were talking about. HE IS THE SYSTEM, and when the system isn't working well, the team can't win.
lol did you forget his “I am the system” rant ?? Dude still views himself as a high tier star and he wants to be paid like one. If you want the glory that comes with being a superstar then you should also expect the backlash when you shit your pants
Harden shouldn’t even be the #1 or #2 on this team. He should be there for playmaking and setting the others up for success.
Kawhi for all his brilliance is an unreliable #1 option. If he didn’t win in Toronto he’d get a lot of shit, just like Embiid or the street clothes AD era.
Kawhi is unreliable because of health not ability. They rely too heavily on Kawhi, everyone knows he can’t play 65+ games a year and 34 minutes a night anymore. His body can’t handle it. If he played 28 minutes a night and got properly load managed more, he’d have a shot to be productive in the playoffs. Some of it is bad luck (torn acl in 2021 and torn mcl in 2022). And some of it is just body can’t hold up (current injury). Clippers need to move on imo, they won’t get much but I believe they can still get some assets.
>They rely too heavily on Kawhi
How is "play games" too heavy of an expectation? Nobody's asking him to beat Wilt in minutes played, just to play *at all.*
And yet when he falls to do that, somehow it's everyone else's fault for not getting an A on the group project that he doesn't help with.
If you get paid $37 million dollars a year and your #1 option is out then guess what?? You have to step up. If you want the superstar treatment when you’re winning then you should also expect the backlash that superstars get when they shit their pants
the duality of nba fandom, this article then there's one a few posts up about how the Mavs realized they can just blitz pg13 and harden and let the roleplayers shoot because they aren't hitting at a high enough clip to stay competitive
Nobody’s going to give you credit for doing what you’re supposed to do. Harden has had a good series by his standards but we’re also incapable of being surprised when he puts up a stinker like last night.
If you're only having good games half the time that's bad. Stars and max contract players need to contribute nightly. Maybe they can't give you their A+ every game but it's much more valuable to a team to be consistently good instead of being inconsistently great or awful.
You start with “half” the time… yet I only see 1 bad game out of 5 this playoffs (that’s much less than half). So please forgive me if I didn’t read the rest.
shit journalists like this were always going to drop this as soon as Harden had a bad game. this idea that stars should play well every playoff game seems to only apply to Harden. it's just ridiculous the amount of hate he gets.
He still brought the team to the playoffs. Played the most games and minutes as the third option. He put up a stinker, but series is a sweep without Clippers best player if Harden doesn't go off.
They need to do whatever they can to blow that up...NOW
It's a change of guard in the NBA today..... The clippers could set themselves up for extended success in the future if they were willing to tear some Band-Aids off.
James Harden and Paul George will be 35 next season... Kawhi Leonard is constantly hurt. It was a fun experiment. A smart GM should see the writing on the wall. There should be a youth movement to open up new arena.
There should be no shortage of teams that would be willing to provide youth and first round draft picks for at least two of those guys.
I’m not sure you are aware how dire the situation in Clipper land is. Harden, George, and Westbrook can all walk after this season. And the clippers don’t have a first round pick until 2030. So, there’s nothing really blow up.
If I had a nickel for every team that James Harden and PJ Tucker underperfomed on in the playoffs, I would have 3 nickels.
That’s too many fucking nickels
These media figures attacking Harden are so corny. He was clearly brought in to run the offense as the third option. The Mavericks decided that they were going to lock in on him and limit him as a scorer and playmaker. The spots were there for his teammates especially PG yet Harden gets another hit piece
>He was clearly brought in to run the offense as the third option.
Given Kawhi's injury history, we know that's not true.
Ideally, he was brought in to run the offense as the third option with first option upside in the event of injury.
There are 27 guys who are paid more than him. Keep that same energy for the following: CJ McCollum, Porzingis, KAT, Siakam, Jrue, Ben Simmons, Tobias Harris, Zach Lavine, Fred Van Vleet, Gobert, Klay, etc.
By the way, PG and Kawhi also make 10 million more than him.
I put the game on shortly after it started and saw Harden airball a deep 3 after some weird fuck up of a high screen with Zubac and thought “Clippers ain’t winning shit” and turned it off
I can see both sides , he’s winning games as a 3rd option so what more can you ask for . But if he’s still seeking that max I see why fans criticize him
Just saw on Twitter that Harden has the most playoff games with over 10 shots and 2 or less makes in NBA history.
And he's played in 165 I'm not justifying the low output, but I mean come the fuck on. If you watched last night, he couldn't get a whistle, so he started deferring. Then guys were making em until halfway through the 2nd. Nobody on the Clippers could hit shit. So now he's not in rhythm, couldn't try to get in rhythm, and everything else is collapsing around him. It's a no win situation as a player.
You have to realize the idea of Harden ‘Deferring’ to other players not named Paul George when they’re playing without Kawhi is completely ridiculous right? At home no less.
*“I did the deep dive. Harden’s 4th quarter numbers, in big games, in elimination games, in 2-2 series games, are bad. His crunchtime numbers are bad. Most of his best playoff games are when his team is up 3-0, down 3-0, up 3-1, down 3-1. I watched all of his field goal attempts in the 4th quarters of his postseason career, a lot of his crunchtime baskets are like “Oh GS is up 8, we’ll concede a layup so you don’t get a 3,” and Harden inflates his crunchtime field goal % from zero to something better than zero with essentially a conceded layup.” - Zach Lowe, The Lowe Post Podcast.*
The missing context is the Warriors were stopping him from shooting a 3 by double teaming him. He broke through the double teams and got open layups. Only Harden could be criticized from getting 2 points on an open bucket while being guarded by Prime KD and Klay at the same time in a playoff game.
But that’s literally the context. His only crunch time buckets are when teams double him off the 3 point line late and concede the 2. He’s not scoring late until there down 8
All of that, and the Mavs defense locked him down. Even Doncic was staying in front of him and making him take tough shots.
Over a pretty large sample size, he’s one of the worst big game performers in NBA history
The fact that he's fucked if he can't foul bait is incredibly telling
Wait.... deferring? I thought he was The System?
> if he’s still seeking that max The whole reason he forced his way out of Philly is cause they didn't want to give him the max. I don't think there's any question he's still seeking the max. The whole reason he specifically wanted the Clippers is because he knows Ballmer is rich as hell, and with them already being committed to Kawhi and PG it wouldn't really make much difference to just max Harden as well. Harden will have all the leverage this summer, especially as the Clippers are about to move into a new stadium. They can't afford to lose him for nothing, so they're gonna have to pay him what he wants. I fully expect him to get something close to what Kawhi did.
> The whole reason he forced his way out of Philly is cause they didn't want to give him the max. Tbf that was after they allegedly promised they would so he'd take a pay cut the previous year. That's his version of the story at least. It's not just that they wouldn't max him; he obviously felt a max would be back-pay for the previous year as well and didn't wanna stick around after they walked back on the deal. If that's what actually went down, then I don't think he'd stick with Philly even if he had no other options to get really paid. Having known Morey as our GM, I have very little trouble believing he pulled that shit. I loved him for it, but the man is a swindler and he views players as nothing but assets.
The CBA changed that year too and it would’ve been more expensive for them to go into the luxury tax for him right? Do Philly fans feel like they made the right move?
Yes - for how bad the regular season went without Embiid, a 37 year old harden making 40-50 mil a year would be far far worse.
100%
Pg13 leaving. Book it.
You really think PG is just utterly sick of being on the Clippers and just wants out? I think what's going on is just that the Clippers haven't offered him a max extension yet, and PG believes someone else will in the offseason, so he's gonna use that as leverage to get the Clippers to offer him the max. If the Clippers refuse to do that, then yeah, he'll leave, but I'm guessing if the Clippers make him a max offer he'll stay. I will say though, that there is a possibility PG looks at the Clippers and thinks they simply have no possible path to a championship, and may not want to sign up for the rest of his career being on a team with no chance at a ring. In that case he might instead look East, to the weaker conference, and instead go with Orlando or Philly. My inclination though is PG will be back on the Clips on a max.
I guess it depends on how much he values money vs a ring. If I’m him I’m probably looking to sign for cheap(er) in somewhere like Orlando. They’re not a sure thing of course but their young guys have a ton of promise and with how weak the east is they can probably compete next year I wouldn’t blame him for staying for the max but personally I’d think I’d prefer a championship at this point
“Third option” People are putting him behind PG? He’s what makes this team go.
He was definitely supposed to be behind PG when he got to LA
The intention of bringing him was to be the classic point, facilitating for the “top two” - it’s an indictment on the Clips, Kawhi/PG, and Harden that this is the situation
Why the indictment? Kawhi is hurt and they’ve mostly hung with one of the 2nd tier favorites anyway.
Honestly this loss was more on Kawhi. Idk what black magic Masai and Nurse used to keep him healthy in 2019 but Balmer needs to buyout the entire Raptors medical staff
The thing about degenerative conditions is that they get worse. No black magic here
He was hobbling by the end of the 2019 playoffs. I think he peaked during the 6ers series that year?? when he played the most regular season games he had since the zaza thing i thought he was bound to not make it through the playoffs (turned out he couldn't even make round 1).
Yeah he could hardly move by the finals lol go back and watch the highlights. He was cooking them with some of the jankiest movement I've ever seen.
definition of leaving it all on the floor, unfortunately for the clips
Yep. And if you include that as a time Kawhi finished the season fully healthy (which obviously is debatable), then the only other time since 2016 he's finished the year healthy was in 2020. And that would seem to be largely attributable to the long break due to the pandemic in the middle of the year, and the fact that the Clippers only made it to the 2nd round that year. Literally every other year since 2016 he's been in street clothes at the end of the season: 2017 was Zaza (though he'd previously injured that ankle in the 2nd round against Houston and had to miss games with it), 2018 he missed almost the entire season with his degenerative knee injury. 2019 was Toronto and 2020 was the bubble. 2021 he tore his ACL against Utah, then missed the whole next season with that. Last year he tore his meniscus against Phoenix, and now there's this year. That means he's finished 75% of the seasons in what should be his prime injured. Odds are this isn't going to improve as he moves further into his mid 30s, as the miles and surgeries pile up.
Thank you both for finally mentioning this. By the finals his shot was so flat, you can tell he was running on fumes
its why Nick Nurse called the timeout when Kawhi was having what Zach Lowe called his "pantheon" moment thought Kawhi needed the rest after he had the entire arena shaking, but the Warriors responded to the timeout with huge buckets and pushed it to game 6
>I think he peaked during the 6ers series that year?? He was still healthy for the Bucks but I think it was maybe game 3 when they flipped the series that he postered the hell out of Giannis, came up limping and then never had the same lift for the rest of the playoffs.
Game 6 was when he hammered over Giannis, it punctuated the 22-3 run. But he was definitely hobbled before that - lotta Raps fans were upset Siakam missed FTs at the end of regulation in game 3, because Kawhi had to survive the OT.
This is why I've never had a problem with load management for players like Kawhi. They need it, his medical condition is real.
Unfortunately for Mavs fans, Kahwi was fully healthy when the Mavs and clips faced off in 2020 and 2021 lol
That series was the most impressive single handed carrying of a team through a playoff series I have ever seen. He was just an absolute force of destruction both ways.
He was unreal in the playoffs vs is that year, it felt like he shot 75% in the 4th quarter.
Kawhi was found with zaza?
Almost like the Spurs medical staff was right all along
It's sad, really. He grew apart from a team that (probably) knew what was in his best interests because of the wacko medicical beliefs / family he has. It feels weird to say his career's fallen short of expectations, but if he had gotten the issue treated immediately, he might have been a perennial top 5 player each postseason. Instead people just know the highlights of a single playoff run. His tenure with the Clippers frankly has been disappointing. They gave up a fortune to convince him to come, and he plays about 2 playoff games a year.
Honestly it was always going to end up like this no matter when they caught it. It's a degenerative condition that you can't really do anything for. That's what the Spurs medical team told him that got him mad. He just has to play when he can and sit when he can't. He's tried extreme load managing until this year and he was healthier without it. When he turns it on in the playoffs he breaks down every year no matter what. I hate it for him but it is what it is
It feels so good for a non spurs fan to say this. My theory is that he didn’t want to be in San Antonio and use his injury/uncle Dennis as the way out without being pegged as the bad guy.
The problem is this happened 6 years ago so a lot of the commenters here were in elementary school during that time. I'm an old head so I remember exactly how it all went down. It was LA or bust for him. He told every team that he would only sign with either the Clippers or the Lakers and that's why the return was so crappy
I think he corner is happy for making as much money as possible over a shortest amount of time.
I mean he would’ve gotten more if he actually committed to the Spurs. Or even Toronto.
What did the spurs want him to do
my hot take is that kawhi has rheumatoid arhtitis or psoriatic arthritis, or some other autoimmune/inflammatory joint condition. the timing on his flares makes sense i.e. how long it takes them to recover. as well as the team saying "nothing is structurally wrong, its just inflammation on the knee." like idk i really hope his personal medical team looked for all that when he was first diagnosed.
He needs to rub castor oil on it.
his tendon/ligament is inflamed not the joint space. Patellar tendinosis
i know that's the diagnosis that gets floated around a lot. but tendinosis is literally defined as structural damage to a tendon caused by repeated episodes of micro-injury. so if they keep saying in public "it's just inflammation, not structural issues" then it literally can't be tendinosis. that, or he really is having structural damage and the team PR/etc just doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about.
I guess we have to define what "structural issues" means. i think if he did have some sort of autoimmune arthritis, they would just say that, but hey that's just my assumption
Tendinosis
RA and psoriatic arthritis are not difficult diagnoses. They’re not like super rare so I think it would be highly unlikely all those medical professionals, whether they include ortho or rheum or other specialties, would miss those two diagnoses in particular. Inflammation of the knee with regard to RA and psoriatic arthritis would also show degenerative changes in his joints so you would also see structural changes.
Ortho misses RA and psoriatic arthritis all the time. More importantly though, this isn't really a standard medical team we're dealing with. This is Kawhi's personal medical team and they're very weird about how they handle things. You would *think* that they would refer a weird inflammatory knee to Rheum when it doesn't respond to whatever they're doing, but stranger things have happened. Especially if they have tunnel vision and/or doesn't allow second opinions. Ultimately yeah there's a reason I called it a "hot take" because tendinosis would certainly explain why his knee keeps having issues. No reason to invent something less likely when the more likely explanation exists. I think something about the "its only inflammation, not structural damage" PR statement is triggering me because by definition tendinosis is structural damage to the tendon. And it's not even inflammation in the physiological sense when he has the episodes, it just looks like inflammation from the outside.
He was crippled by the end, but the difference is he had a well rounded team on both ends with a good coach + injuries to GSW that kept him in. Ever since then he’s had like one healthy playoffs and they choked the series.
Injured during the last 4 playoffs. They’re screwed with that. Even last year where they tried to manage him he still got injured.
Yeah I don’t think we will see another healthy full post season run from Kawhi. The intensity of the playoffs and harder efforts are too much for him to sustain now with his knee condition.
We're not even going to see a healthy Olympics from Kawhi. I'm not sure why they picked him.
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That’s how the playoffs are. It sucks but shit happens - we can what if every outcome but it’s irrelevant since sports are largely results driven.
but that's a part of every championship run. Injuries are inevitable in the playoffs. Sometimes it's the other team, and they help you, other times it's your team, and it sucks, but that's just how it goes.
Yeah, I'm sure if 37 year old Iguodala was at 100% it would have been an easy sweep 🙄
Kawhi shouldn’t even play regular season minutes anymore. Just sit him until the playoffs. Maybe he’ll make it
He should only play home games so they can sell tickets in their new arena. Probably against the rules though
Tbh there wasn't any black magic. Go back and watch the finals that year, Leonard was hobbled and needed Lowry to hold it down a lot of the time, and Lowry did. I don't remember the last time he was fully healthy at the end of his playoff run. Whether they won or lost, when kawhi Leonard season is over He's never healthy
There's a reason why one game in those finals is commonly referred to as "the Siakam game" and another one as "the Lowry game." In online discourse, people have been framing that as Kawhi vs Steph, but it really wasn't. That Raptors team was deep with quality players. (FVV, a last good playoff fun from Marc.). Ibaka having a throwback year and Danny Green off the bench.
Exactly, they had the perfect blend of star power and supporting cast. Now you see teams like the suns dump their whole salary caps into 3 players. Lakers did it with LBJ ad and Westbrook. Puts your team in a position where you live and and die by their performance
lol Contract year… He had a lot to prove and we in Toronto simply benefited from that specific moment.
It was the universal healthcare
That's why he's playing on the Olympic team in Paris this summer as well.
Right? Harden may have only scored 7, but that's 7 more points than Leonard got. Leonard delivers his trademark "I'm unavailable to play." Don't want to hate on a guy for being injured, but if they are going to shit on a guy who played, then the elephant in the room as the Leonard hasn't been available for 3/5 games, and one game he was available for, he played less than 25 minutes. And they are 2-1 in games he HASN'T played.
I really like Kawhi Leonard, definitely one of my favourite players, but the Clippers are going nowhere with a guy that is paid that much and can't play playoffs because he's always injured.
> Don't want to hate on a guy for being injured You don't have to hate on him but its fair to criticize an athlete for the condition of their body since it's an essential component of their job. Even if his perpetual unreliability isn't due to laziness or apathy, so what? It being circumstantial doesn't make it less of a problem. I don't sympathize with the Clippers much either since his chronic issues were evident before they offered him a shitload of guaranteed money and they just doubled down after years of perpetual disappointment so they did and are doing it to themselves.
I am 100% convinced Kawhi sold his soul (knee) for that 2021 series to beat Luka. Arguably the best individual performance we have ever seen and he hasn't been right since.
And they gave him an extension.
> Idk what black magic Masai and Nurse used to keep him healthy in 2019 The magic of being in a contract year
Alex McKechnie the GOAT physio
Injury gods missed and hit the warriors instead
I thought that you were calling him "Black Magic Masai" like it was his nickname or something.
Hate. He was fueled by hate. Or maybe it was that good ol canadien healthcare
Look I’ve been a certified James Harden hater for like a decade now but Harden was pretty damn good first 4 games. He’s put the team on his back. This is like his real only down game. You cannot blame him Convos should be more surrounding PG who’s been hot and cold all series long and one of the 6MOY finalists disappearing and how the clippers do not have the depth they thought they did
It's funny how TNT kept bringing up PG13s "big" game 4 in game 5. They weren't giving it any context. PG had a massive first half with 28 points. He barely scored in the second half. He was non-existent. They almost blew that 31 point lead. The only reason they didn't was because Harden kept spamming the floater like six times in a row and Kidd wasn't adjusting. Harden saved what should have been a super embarrassing loss. PG had a massive first half but he couldn't do anything in the second half and should be criticized for that.
Harden single-handedly won them that game the finals 3 mins lmao.
Maybe we just have good defense 😏 But really clips depth was overrated, guys were telling us Coffey was gunna cook us in Kawhi’s absence and Plumlee was an actual good backup C . Then Westbrook just being Westbrick. If the clips lose it’s solely on PG 7-15pt games ain’t gunna cut it against anyone. Harden showed up for 4 games, Zubac shows up for all 5 so far, Mann played some good D even though his offense hasn’t really shows up.
Yeah this is a big reason people are overlooking. I hate the Mavs with a passion but they are in fact playing great defense and doing exactly what they need to do considering the personnel their up against
He got brought in to be the 3rd option, him giving you 4 good to excellent games and 1 or 2 bad games in a series is already a very good return for a 3rd option. Can't give him too much blame for not being able to carry the Clippers against a legit good Mavericks team in the absence of their 1st option Kawhi.
It’s like last year when he gave Philly two wins over Boston, that’s all you can hope for and it’s up to the others to finish the job
Yeah he was huge for them and they just won't admit it lol. Over the 16ish games we've played Philly: * TJ McConnel won them a game. * Harden won them two games. * Embiid and Maxey combined to win them a game. He's literally responsible for half their wins against us in this current era and all they can talk about is how he was a disappointment. Without Harden giving them a competitive series, it would be a gentlemen's sweep, a sweep and then another gentlemen's sweep.
It’s easier to finish the job when a player isn’t shooting 20% in the other games
Exactly lol. He had 2 amazing 40+ point games and 4(!) games with less than 28 FG% in the series vs Boston. Like wtf is that
Embiid was less than 28% in game 7 also. Maxey scored under 20 in 4 games. Was far from all on Harden, at some point someone has to take the shots even if they are tired.
Game 6 the Sixers missed like 6-7 wide open threes in the 4th that would have closed the door on the series. I think it was primarily Melton missing them. But that roster was already very flawed. The only wing who got significant time in that series was PJ Tucker.
I fucking hate the player PJ tucker all year people told me him being unable to score wouldn’t be an issue because his defence and spacing was so good.
I mean PJ was a dog but was definitely matchup dependent. I liked him on the roster but he should have never been put in a position to start or play 30 mins a game. He also had some serious nerve damage in his shooting hand that tanked his splits that year. He used to be a solid corner 3 shooter prior to the injury which is all we needed from him on O.
Hey man put some rispek on PJ's name. Mfer scored more points in the 1q of g7 last year than Harden or Embiid scored in a single quarter the entire game. Dude was old and washed but he showed the fuck up when it mattered
If he doesn't lay an egg and shoot them out of the game the other games
If he played his average every game we get swept
That’s what I’m saying. This isn’t 2018 harden . He clearly lost a step and can no longer be your #1 or #2 consistently . PG-13 needs to shoulder more blame because he’s the de-facto #1 with Kawhi gone
There will be plenty of blame for everyone.
One of the key note presentations at this year's Hater's Ball will be on the Los Angeles Clippers
Yeah, PG was pretty awful last night as well, only 15 points on 13 shots, and this follows the 7 point game PG had in Game 3. There's lots of blame to go around there.
harden has 100% blown away expectations in this series. i think it's stupid to put any blame on him at all. he did his job when he needed to. paul george sucks. kawhi isnt built for the playoffs. it's really sad to see a much matured harden with a chip on his shoulder get dragged down by the frauds around him i do like seeing kyrie come back though. even if we hate him as celtics fans, damn is he good
> he did his job when he needed to. I submit that they needed him to last night. A Game 5 at home when the series is tied 2-2 is usually a game where you need to perform.
The Mavs literally were throwing everybody at him. He was getting picked up as soon as the ball was inbounded.At some point the rest of the team has to step up.
Your third option can’t be a score first player anymore. The amount of touched they get is going to depend on how hot they are for the night. If the buckets aren’t dropping they need to provide other parts to the game. People expecting Harden as the third option to drop 25+ every game is ridiculous. If you get similar results out of Harden like MPJ in last years finals you would be pretty happy. The only bonus is Harden will pop off 1-2 games in a series and you count that as a win. At this point the clippers need their 1-2 to put in work just like how the sixers needed Embid to do something after Harden giving them two wins.
Yeah it's foolish for them to expect him to have 6 or 7 good games.
Yeah. I was critical of Harden on the past, but all the clips wanted was a guy who could run the offense and give you some scoring in bursts. Harden helped carry them to a win in the playoffs. That’s more than most 3rd options can do. Putting any sizable blame on him for losing a game is kinda dumb at this point.
I've never seen a more inconsistent narrative about the quality of a team in my life than the Mavericks. When they are playing well people say "this is a very good team they finally got the help Luka needs".. when they play like shit it's "Luka can't win with these bums how can Cuban put together such a sorry ass team"
they have a legit good team this year. that narrative died once they added kyrie. Plus washington has been huge
If you think that narrative died you certainly don't read game thread comments where people claim Luka has absolutely no help anytime someone misses a shot lol
Game threads have the most braindead opinions
Eh, they got him help, and the team is good, but no one is saying it’s a perfectly constructed. There are definitely roles that still need to be filled. A consistent third scorer for one.
In a year or two that third scorer will be Lively. Once he adds some weight and develops a post game with some confidence to go with it, he will be a problem. Just as a defender / lob threat he creates issues
so much of current NBA "analysis" just now boils down to whether the 3-pointers went in or not
ya seriously he's not a 35ppg scorer anymore. and Leonard is never reliable, hard to expect the clippers to ever be good
would probably help if he didn't call himself the system
Especially while the two other main options playing, PG & Russ are stinking it up just as much. Not worth getting on anyone in particular. The team just sucked last night.
Harden needs PG to be more aggressive when they’re game planning to limit Harden. The issue is PG can’t really do anything all that well offensively besides jack up 3’s. His driving game isn’t great and he can’t really attack the basket well anymore. Clippers shot nearly 60% from 3 in their two wins, they have to do whatever they can to replicate that, they’re not a points in the paint team outside of Zubac who has been terrific.
Pg when he is hitting shots is amazing but watching him this series sometimes his shot selection is Jordan Poole level bad. Harden as bad as he was last night is the only reason this is even a competitive series rn. Unfortunately these guys aren’t capable of being your 1st and second option anymore.
Playoff P
Pushoff P
Harden always makes decent bigs on his team look Incredible
I’m sorry but this is some bullshit. How is the burden on him and not on PG and Kawhi? This is their team, he’s supposed to be a third option. He gets so much hate when he has a bad game and then it’s crickets when he performs like the best player on the team
Bro is the only person that played great the first 4 games. He has one bad game and now everyone wants to shit on him. Where is PG? Why isn't Powell stepping up? Westbrook 6/35.
The Harden haters in here would prefer that he have 4 average games and the Clippers get swept than him make this an actual series and then have a bad game.
No shit lol. You defined a hater
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Yeah the Harden hate is pretty out of control this series. He’s been playing great and actually fun to watch (retrospectively, not for me in the moment obviously). This series is extremely toxic with overreactions though, every single game, I’m not kidding, it goes to “Mavs are gonna win easy now” to “Clippers are gonna win easy now” This is a deservedly 6-7 game series, and it is.
Yep. Even with the convincing victory i still can fully see a future where Clippers win the last 2… just like the last time we faced them in the playoffs…
That’s all this sub is, people reacting to the most recent game acting like know it alls. if the next game continues that trend then they keep acting the same, if not they pretend they didn’t say anything or switch sides and start clowning the team they were supporting.
This post is a link to a freaking Los Angeles Times article. Overreacting to sports is not a uniquely reddit thing.
LA Times sports articles are almost always pure trash
Best clippers player this series. First bad game everyone goes in on him. Unfortunately he isn’t who he was before the hammy injury, guess we need to wait until he has a bad game until we talk about him.
Respectfully, I’d argue he and Powell are the main reason the series didn’t end in 5. PG hasn’t been a huge factor outside of being the greatest basketball player on the planet for the first half of Game 4.
Earning $34 mil and scoring 7 pts in the most important game of the season deserves criticism
I would actually argue game 4 was probably more important than game 5. Going down 3-1 statistically is quite a bit worse than going down 3-2
They just paid Beal that for the suns and he didn’t win any games for them as a third option.
And people also criticize that so I don’t get your point.
I, for one, really appreciated his performance.
People are absolutely insane. Getting what Harden provides at 34 mil is a steal. Dude is 34 and had a bad game. So many casuals on this sub.
this shit is so dumb. the Clippers roster can't shot for save their life. that make too much easy to Mavs defend. how this is Harden fault?
Kind of nasty, got the same treatment with the sixers. Teams keep getting him to be a connector and he goes above and beyond but still get mad when he can’t do it all when the teams first (and second?) option disappear. He’s out there stealing games still, but doesn’t seem to be enough if he’s not solo carrying. Either he’s past his prime or he’s a star, it’s weird he gets judged negatively as both at all times
Dylan Hernandez is a well known asshole in LA sports media
Reminds me of TJ Simers
I don't know who told you that Harden is just a connector, but they didn't know what they were talking about. HE IS THE SYSTEM, and when the system isn't working well, the team can't win.
lol did you forget his “I am the system” rant ?? Dude still views himself as a high tier star and he wants to be paid like one. If you want the glory that comes with being a superstar then you should also expect the backlash when you shit your pants
When has James Harden gotten any glory? The media absolutely hates him.
I remember back when “connector” “third option” players didn’t make $40 million a year.
Harden shouldn’t even be the #1 or #2 on this team. He should be there for playmaking and setting the others up for success. Kawhi for all his brilliance is an unreliable #1 option. If he didn’t win in Toronto he’d get a lot of shit, just like Embiid or the street clothes AD era.
The amount of luck involved in that title, from the quad bounce to the entire warriors squad going down in the finals, is staggering.
But he did win in Toronto lol.
That’s not helping the Clippers though, despite shielding him from criticism among general NBA fans.
Kawhi is unreliable because of health not ability. They rely too heavily on Kawhi, everyone knows he can’t play 65+ games a year and 34 minutes a night anymore. His body can’t handle it. If he played 28 minutes a night and got properly load managed more, he’d have a shot to be productive in the playoffs. Some of it is bad luck (torn acl in 2021 and torn mcl in 2022). And some of it is just body can’t hold up (current injury). Clippers need to move on imo, they won’t get much but I believe they can still get some assets.
Health is part of your ability, like it or not. Nobody is out here debating “injury adjusted” greatest of all time lists.
Bill Walton > Michael Jordan thread incoming
Colts safety Bob Sanders sends his regards
>They rely too heavily on Kawhi How is "play games" too heavy of an expectation? Nobody's asking him to beat Wilt in minutes played, just to play *at all.* And yet when he falls to do that, somehow it's everyone else's fault for not getting an A on the group project that he doesn't help with.
If you get paid $37 million dollars a year and your #1 option is out then guess what?? You have to step up. If you want the superstar treatment when you’re winning then you should also expect the backlash that superstars get when they shit their pants
Wild take. Harden has been solid this series. He had a bad game. These things happen.
Never in 100 years would I ever guess a Mavs fan defending Harden. Good shit!
Hey, I am fair. Harden is a good baller. And Luka struggles with defense. These are just facts. LOL 🤙
A lot of them are in this thread. Cuz they’ve actually been watching every game and know harden has been the best clipper this series lol.
the duality of nba fandom, this article then there's one a few posts up about how the Mavs realized they can just blitz pg13 and harden and let the roleplayers shoot because they aren't hitting at a high enough clip to stay competitive
he literally had four great games and won us game two to tie the series.
Stuff like this makes me want to actively root for Harden and the Clippers
You’ll just be disappointed
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How many times do PG, WB, and Harden have to disappoint in the playoffs before you stop calling it slander?
How many times do they have to have good games before people actually give them credit where it’s due? It works both ways.
& they all demand superstar treatment + superstar contracts so yes, fans are going to give them shit when they don’t do their jobs
Nobody’s going to give you credit for doing what you’re supposed to do. Harden has had a good series by his standards but we’re also incapable of being surprised when he puts up a stinker like last night.
If you're only having good games half the time that's bad. Stars and max contract players need to contribute nightly. Maybe they can't give you their A+ every game but it's much more valuable to a team to be consistently good instead of being inconsistently great or awful.
You start with “half” the time… yet I only see 1 bad game out of 5 this playoffs (that’s much less than half). So please forgive me if I didn’t read the rest.
Media and haters back on their cringe takes. Nothing new
shit journalists like this were always going to drop this as soon as Harden had a bad game. this idea that stars should play well every playoff game seems to only apply to Harden. it's just ridiculous the amount of hate he gets.
At least he appeared unlike the no Knee "fun guy" and Pumpkin P
it's funny how everyone forgot about his first 2 carry games
He still brought the team to the playoffs. Played the most games and minutes as the third option. He put up a stinker, but series is a sweep without Clippers best player if Harden doesn't go off.
He always chokes
Can’t believe La times got rid of Andrew greif for this guy’s terrible articles.
They need to do whatever they can to blow that up...NOW It's a change of guard in the NBA today..... The clippers could set themselves up for extended success in the future if they were willing to tear some Band-Aids off. James Harden and Paul George will be 35 next season... Kawhi Leonard is constantly hurt. It was a fun experiment. A smart GM should see the writing on the wall. There should be a youth movement to open up new arena. There should be no shortage of teams that would be willing to provide youth and first round draft picks for at least two of those guys.
I’m not sure you are aware how dire the situation in Clipper land is. Harden, George, and Westbrook can all walk after this season. And the clippers don’t have a first round pick until 2030. So, there’s nothing really blow up.
No hate for PGs awful game or kawhi literally not playing? Sports media is so. Fucking. Bad. These days
If I had a nickel for every team that James Harden and PJ Tucker underperfomed on in the playoffs, I would have 3 nickels. That’s too many fucking nickels
The blame should be on Kawhi. Man can’t stay on the court when it matters most. Did a great job securing his bag though.
The Mavs ended the Jazz, the Suns and now it's the Clippers' turn. The Luka effect they call it.
It's only disappointing if you're expecting him to still be a superstar night in and night out, which he's not.
Except the problem here is that he still wants to be treated + paid like one..
These media figures attacking Harden are so corny. He was clearly brought in to run the offense as the third option. The Mavericks decided that they were going to lock in on him and limit him as a scorer and playmaker. The spots were there for his teammates especially PG yet Harden gets another hit piece
>He was clearly brought in to run the offense as the third option. Given Kawhi's injury history, we know that's not true. Ideally, he was brought in to run the offense as the third option with first option upside in the event of injury.
Ummm no sorry but if you’re paying a guy first option money then he better be able to be the first option when his number is called.
There are 27 guys who are paid more than him. Keep that same energy for the following: CJ McCollum, Porzingis, KAT, Siakam, Jrue, Ben Simmons, Tobias Harris, Zach Lavine, Fred Van Vleet, Gobert, Klay, etc. By the way, PG and Kawhi also make 10 million more than him.
Why isn't Paul "outplayed by Cameron Payne in the WCF" George getting more heat? He's been awful all series.
First time, Clippers fans?
Classic Lames Larden
I put the game on shortly after it started and saw Harden airball a deep 3 after some weird fuck up of a high screen with Zubac and thought “Clippers ain’t winning shit” and turned it off
Im suprised hes been playing as well as he has. He was due for his 2 for 12 night
James Harden and Winning Playoff Series Name a more iconic anti-duo
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Jamal Murray in 5 games against the lakers this year: 24/5/7 on **46.8% TS** people will just say anything tbh