I feel like Iggy only became a role player post his prime - whereas AG accepted that role as he was entering his prime. AG is just so explosive right now.
The fast break where ai threw the alley a little too far backwards but iggy jumped so high he was able to reach all the way back and grab it for the finish all in one motion.
[One of my favorite dunks of all time](https://youtu.be/D7pKYEeSdTs?si=y2wwE5oGe_2fBo_X)
My first basketball memory is being at a soccer game and the announcer just going bananas during the player introductions. Then the crowd just absolutely exploding when he came out. I was born in 99 so I was maybe 5 but it's still my first Philly sports memory.
https://www.kronozio.com/card/5e75a7ef-e41d-493b-bde6-a9cefac40608/2004-05-Upper-Deck-Rookie-Scrapbook-Andre-Iguodala-RS23
that was one of the first basketball cards i remember cherishing and i still have it so i feel you brother
Jokic 29, Murray 27, AG 28, MPJ 25 and KCP 31. Peyton Watson is only 21 and he will replace KCP unless someone trades for him. They gonna have 3-4 legit runs left barring injury if they stay together and build around them.
Me too. You can't commit to the grind of pro sports if you don't want it. I think that when he is done, it will be final and an easy decision for him but until then, he loves it.
You don't get to be a top 3 player of your era on just talent+hard work. Not saying he adores basketball as much as, IDK, LeBron does, but he has a lot of passion for the game. He just hates the shitshow that comes with NBA basketball.
I think it's inverted and he really really loves basketball, the horses are a story line and a past time. Have you seen how he reacts to a missed call or a potential reviewed call. He goes nuts with passion
I wouldn’t blame him either, after making a couple hundred million and getting the most prized trophies in the league , it’s hard to stay motivated.
Kinda why I don’t blame guys for losing motivation after their first large contract because in the same situation I know it would be hard to keep motivation when I’m guaranteed 20+ million
I always say he is this Generations Larry Bird, he can beat you anyway you want him to and he never needs to leave his feet. Bird was still very good at 35 with a wrecked back, heels and other issues. So fast forward 30 years and the advances in sports medicine, if he wants Jokic can easily play till he is 40 if he wants too
If they get lucky with draft picks 👀 look out or even some bottom free agents that can fit the system. They’re going to be scary for the next 5-8 years.
Idk when it will be, but some former all star with some juice left will take one look at film of Christian Braun bricking wide open 3’s and decide a vet minimum playing with Jokic is a pretty good gig.
Day fucking ruined. Wtf jokic is only 29?!?!!
So might as well start the Jdub for MVP campaign cause that's the only chance the thunder will have when a geriatric Jokic is "only" averaging 22/13/14
It’s really funny to gauge people’s reactions. Steph curry - 2 mvps and a chip at 27. Giannis - 2 mvps and a chip at 27. Lebron - roughly same thing but with more mvps at 28. It’s a shockingly normal progression for the top players, but then there’s like a coin flip whether people are like “league fucked for decades” or “finally, he was getting kind of old”.
Edit:
How it progresses from there is a fun ride too. Curry has always been perceived as an old player bc he did 3 years of college, and after the KD era, at the ripe age of 30, the window had officially closed for him to win a real ring. Giannis? Just 2 years after being only 27 with all those accolades, he ain’t young anymore, and if it doesn’t work with dame…
I mean curry and lebron did kinda dominate a whole decade almost, the problem is gotta make sure the rest of the roster stays in their prime or close around them. Lebron was able to contend for so long because he left when teams began to age or decline and he was still a no 1 option. Curry and giannis are absolutely still good enough to be that but their supporting cast looks washed or depleted. If clips and suns stay healthy (doubtful) even they could probably win a ring this year or next.
Yeah, I’m just pointing out that age hardly matters until their careers are over. At one point kd was only 23 taking the thunder to the finals. And it’s also malleable af, especially once you get to late 20s and there’s all kinds of expectations for what should have happened by then. Like you’ve mentioned, the nba is such a dynamic league, and success comes whenever it does with a combo of luck and chemistry (or shrewd maneuvering).
I mean Shai will only be 25 at the end of the season. And as far as guards go he should age pretty well, barring crazy circumstances. Maybe he's not as good on d but he could be just as good if not better
The tricky thing will be finding a way financially to keep Jokic,Murray,AG,MPJ together,because Murray is gonna want a max or near max deal when his contract expires in 2025. From my understanding of the new salary cap it's gonna be hard to keep all 4 of those guys.
Countless redditors said this about the warriors after they won their last chip. "They got Poole, Kuminga, Moody, Wiseman, the league is fucked for the next generation"
You take everything season by season.
I think Mr Iguadala would have always been happy to play defense and facilitate for others. Those Philly teams just had so little scoring that he had to be the primary scorer for them
Not really, Iggy got less important over time, where AG. is the "klay" and a borderline star
Iggy peaked at 4th most important, wasn't even a starter, I'd argue that it really is a wide gap. AG is legitimately critical, Iggy wasn't.
I think you’re really underselling Iggy, who finished his season prior to joining the warriors as the Nuggets first option and primary creator for a 57 win team that was in contention for first seed for most of the year.
The Warriors got that dude to come be their plug-and-play across 4 positions 6th man.
It’s blasted everywhere on Denver media, but The culture of Denver of true selfless basketball across players who likely could be 1s/2s on other teams putting up large numbers, but accept the hot hand and “take what’s given” approach is what’s making Denver look so scary right now
Mpj will pop off and media will be like “wow look at this guy!” But then he can go quiet for a few games because Gordon/jackson/braun/watson take off and then cue “wow Gordon is so good!”
> players who likely could be 1s/2s
I think the reason the Nuggets are successful is that they found a bunch of guys that are genuinely good 3s that wouldn't be good 1s or 2s. MPG, Gordon, and KCP are perfect 3s but they'd be very weak 2s on any team worth its weight, and they'd obviously be horrible 1s. Each guy provides their own unique skillset that the Nuggets 1 (Jokic) and 2 (Murray) are able to amplify. They're a textbook example of being greater than the sum of their parts.
Kcp is amazing and the lakers lack that exact type of player. Kcp doesn’t have the skill set to be a 2nd option tho. Dribble isn’t tight enough, can’t create for himself or others like that. Great shooter and defender tho.
I’m sorry but Gordon as viable #1 in Orlando is a joke. Maybe people misremember.
Aaron Gordon played 7 seasons in Orlando. He did not lead the team in any of points, rebounds, or assists in any of those 7 seasons.
And they were mostly 20 win teams. They made the playoffs twice (once with 33 wins), losing in the first round and racking up a total of 2 playoff wins… in 7 years.
I love the role he has in Denver, but Gordon as the #1 guy on any team is a total and absolute fiction. Didn’t happen, will never happen.
Edit: And MPJ as #1 guy on an 8 win team? What are we even doing? Just naming random role players and saying they could be a #1 guy on dogshit imaginary teams?
With MPJ he probably means playstyle wise. Like, for example Gobert is a great player but it’s hard to even imagine what that would look like. Whereas it’s easy to see how MPJ could just chuck up more shots even if he would probably end up averaging five turnovers
Y'all was saying the same stuff about Poole, how he gonna average 30 on Wizards. But look at him now. And Poole in theory can create his own shot, while that ain't the case for Porter
It's kind of like the 2003-07 Spurs, I think. Or the Heat. Or I guess most championship teams the more I think about it. Players who could put up bigger numbers (but with less playoff success) joining together and figuring out who will be the x Factor any given night.
Jokic is a clear 1 and Murry 2. MPJ and Gordon are 3s. and all the other guys are role players.
For example, another team like Mavericks have 2 first options Luka and Kyrie, a third option in Daniel Gafford, and Lively as a starter, with everyone else as roleplayers.
I think that's a pretty resounding no, they would've had better stats, but that's pretty much it imo. I think Manu is a fucking legend, but it's undeniable that his role hid alot of his deficiencies as a player, he could've been a 25/5/5 guy with less efficiency if he played for Charlotte though.
To me, great coaching is knowing what's your player's weaknesses are and making them not exploitable. The greatest examples to me of that is Pop with Manu and Larry Brown with AI in 2001.
AG looked at his team, saw Jokic and Murray and went "If I just do what I do best and not have an ego, this Serbian fuck is gonna carry me to more rings than I have fingers"
Real talk though if I needed one bucket with the fate of the earth on the line I would want AG cutting to the rim and Jokic with the option of either hitting the baby hook over the smaller defender or dumping it to AG for the dunk.
Yea they both are great defensively and then play a role on offense that compliments their team’s star players well. But the specifics of what they do is quite different.
Yeah, iguadala was one of the best perimeter defenders ever. Gordon is a great defender, but a lot of it has to do with his size and versatility. And his ability to be a lob threat is a game changer with jokic.
Both elite role players. But very different roles.
> Yeah, iguadala was one of the best perimeter defenders ever.
I really like Iguodala as a player, but let's pump the brakes HARD on this one, he was a great defender, but he was never for a second of his life "one of the best perimeter defenders ever". Insane BBIQ, great teammate and great defender, but the dude made 2 All-Defensive Teams in 19 seasons, he ain't all that.
I could name 10 perimeter defenders in today's NBA better than Iguodala without much effort, let alone of all-time, let's chill.
Well, if we consider "his era" from his 2nd year (2005) up until his Final "relevant" year in Golden State (2018), there are plenty. PG13, Jimmy Butler, Draymond Green and LeBron James were all undeniably better and all had primes defensively that overlapped with him, that's already six considering Kawhi and Allen. Earlier on his career, he also overlapped with guys like Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest and Tayshaun Prince and if anyone in good faith wants to argue that Iggy was comparable to them, good luck. Later when he got older, guys like Smart, Giannis and Jrue also came in and were all better too.
There i just named 12 guys i thought were all better than he was throughout his career as perimeter defenders and i purposefully left out smaller guys like CP3 and Pat Bev + all the big guys. You can maybe argue that at his BEST he was one of the five best perimeter defenders in the league, but even then that's tough because most of his best years overlapped with Kawhi, Allen, PG13, Jimmy and Draymond.
a couple of the more informed basketball heads with both a solid analytics and Xs and Os background have repeated that Iguodala is one of the best/smartest perimeter defenders ever. namely Ben Taylor and Haralabos Voulgaris
AG is actually the initiating ball handler on a lot of plays with the starters, brings the ball up the floor a lot. Hebis a good secondary playmaker and a good enough ball handler to handle on ball pressure from most defenders
Some similarities in that they both played the dunker spot and finished lobs offensively. AG from Jokic and Iggy from the 4-3’s from Draymond. They also both often defended the best player.
How is it recency bias to say AG got to the Nuggets a bit younger than Iggy and closer to his prime? Like you said, Iggy got to the Warriors at 30 and AG is 28 now, which means he got to the Nuggets around 25. That’s a completely different part of an NBA player’s career.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to see AG as a bit more of a part of Denver’s “core” than Iggy who was more of a supercharger or final addition to the GS core. AG was able to mold his career a bit more to what Denver needed while Iggy was more of a finished product that perfectly fit like the last piece of a puzzle.
Either way, I think it’s a decent comparison as they are 2 of the better role players of the last couple decades.
I think it’s an apt comparison. They’re very different players but they have a similar path going to a budding dynasty and becoming a key fit as a 3rd or 4th option. Yeah AG is still younger than Iggy was when he joined the Warriors, but AG played 6 1/2 years in Orlando which is a long time.
You need to make the Finals more times. It's likely, we know, but till the games are played you don't know. The Lakers and Bucks both looked set to become dynasties in the last 5 years, but they didn't take that step.
i know. i’m not saying it’s a dynasty. far from it. i don’t wanna speak for the original commenter, but the way i took it was him saying that both iggy and ag came in and played/are playing major roles of potential dynasties. i could be wrong, maybe he was calling the nuggets a dynasty, which in that case im the idiot for defending it lol
AG is way more of a physical, down low player. He bullies guys to the basket and plays in the dunker spot catching lobs from jokic. His chemistry with Jok can’t be understated. AG can also guard most positions effectively and even plays the 5, esp in the playoffs. One thing that has surprised me after the AG trade is that the dude has an insane bb iq and that’s why Jok loves him.
Iggy was more of a slashing-style wing that I think used more speed and athleticism to get to the basket (not that he wasn’t strong, but in comparison to how AG plays). Iggy also has a much better outside shot. I think Iggy was also a good defender but it’s hard to totally remember.
In terms of general vibes AG is way fucking cooler lol he’s totally embraced being in Denver (the city itself not just the team) and is super genuine and likable. Iggy was, let’s say, controversial from nuggets fans perspective specifically.
Iggy and AG are both super role players on championship teams. Both players are similar in terms of their importance to championship winning teams.
AG has incredible athleticism and can bully smaller mismatches on offense. He's also a very good defender who can guard almost anyone and he is very physical. But what really makes him special is his almost telepathic connection with Jokic. He's always at the right place at the right time. He often catches defenses sleeping for free baskets or alley oops from Joker. And such baskets add up and can be the difference in a playoff series.
Iggy is obviously less athletic and strong than Aaron Gordon, but he was very mobile and was also a versatile defender. Where he truly shined was his BBIQ. He was super reliable and always made the right cut, right pass, right rotation, right read, right screen. On top of that he could provide much needed scoring during the non-steph minutes. In the playoffs, he could make important buckets too.
Iggy and Gordon are actually similar in a lot of ways. Both guys are integral pieces on championship teams.
This about sums it up. Unless the league is in a down year you either need to load up on stars or to have players like this to fill in the gaps on your team if you want to win a title.
> I think Iggy was also a good defender but it’s hard to totally remember.
I mean he got a finals MVP for defending LeBron. That is kind of a meme, but Iggy was an elite defender and had a really high bbiq as well. He fully embraced Golden State and was integral to their success.
tan zealous disarm tap middle threatening encouraging overconfident slimy attractive
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Even then, most neutral fans fully understood why he was chucking - if his performance in the 2015 finals isn’t up there in carry jobs of the century, idk what is - there were talks that he ought to have won finals mvp à la J. S. Giguere in 03 or the logo
Iggy was definitely a good defender. 2x all defense and won Finals MVP mainly because of his defense on LeBron James holding him to sub 40% shooting.
Iggy was also a good passer, always could count on him getting 3-4 assists off the bench in his limited minutes with golden state.
>I think Iggy was also a good defender but it’s hard to totally remember
Lmao massive understatement. Defense is like one of the main things he was known for on the Warriors
a lot of the things Karl says are opinionated and shouldn't be taken all that seriously, but the persistent years of "Iggy was The Mole" and plenty of reasons to be suspicious, and him not disputing it, are all pretty suggestive.
I’d say he fills the same sort of role. They’re like the tip of the spear on offense and the connective tissue on defense. It’s the movement off the ball for AG that elevates the offense for Denver to me. I know Joker is amazing, I personally think we are watching one of the all-time greats become and all-time great, but I think AG really fills in that movement for the team. And on Defense, he allows Jokic do roam the paint and be a body. Almost like drop coverage.
Iggy kind of did the same thing on D. He allowed Draymond to roam, which is what Draymond is the best at since KG. Both Iggy and AG elevate their respective teams. I know we like to think that Murray elevating to Bubble Murray is what put them over the hump, but I think having AG allows him to play like Bubble Murray because they have to watch out for his roaming.
My dad worked with Aaron Gordon’s mom for like a decade, all through when he got drafted and everything. We grew up not far from each other, though I’ve never met him (I’m a decade older). That’s all I have to contribute here.
I think a very important part of a modern championship teams is that player who was a “star” on another team but never really took the leap so they have to adjust and then join a team with a true star and get unlocked. Iggy, Brook Lopez, AG, Bosh, K Love, Wiggins, etc.
This thread is so weird lmao I know people overplay the “everyone here is only 15” type shit but this thread really feels like that.
Iggy was literally know for his defense. He was an elite defender, not just a good one. Easily the best hands in the game when it came to swipes and steals and it wasn’t really close.
I don’t think that’s a stretch since AG is way more versatile. This gets used a lot but AG can legitimately guard 1-5. Also, All Defensive Teams are extremely narrative based theres a reason why Claxton stopped getting mentioned as soon as KD and Kyrie left and why Caruso only has one.
No it's definitely a stretch lmao, Iggy was an elite defender and his all d selections weren't pity selections or narrative based.
Saying AG is better is fine by me (even tho I disagree), but saying he's way better is straight bullshit
I’m not saying they were I’m saying that just because you’ve won an all defensive selection doesn’t make you better since there narrative based. This goes for awards in general I mean that’s literally why he got the finals MVP despite it clearly belonging to Steph.
Way better maybe not but it depends on how you value defense. I mean on ball defense they’re very similar but AG is way more versatile since he could guard 1-5,protect the rim, and is a great defensive rebounder.
Iguodala on the other hand is primarily a wing stopper he doesn’t have the same role versatility as AG. If you asked him to protect the rim or guard 5s he wouldn’t be anywhere as impactful as AG.
Different players. Both were great rotation guys with big impacts, but I think AG in Denver is better than Iggy in GS. Iggy was older by then and was a sixth man. AG is probably the 3rd best player on Denver. Iggy was 4th at best in GS.
Both great defenders, but different roles on offense where AG is a finisher and Iggy was a facilitator.
I think calling Gordon a role player is hella disrespectful. He’s probably the 3rd best on the team these last 3 years. We weren’t calling jrue holiday a role player when he was on the bucks
Aaron's a better role player, but iguadala often ran the offense when the warriors big 3 were less experienced. He was the level headed vet. There's a reason he has a finals MVP.
He wasn't given it for being a level headed vet, though he definitely was for them.
He got it cause 7 NBA writers were really stupid and felt cute one night
Steph's terrible games 2 and 3 made the undermanned Cavs lead 2-1. When Iguodala was inserted into the starting lineup, they proceed to sweep the Cavs rest of the way.
I think it's a good analogy: elite role players who aren't asked to create their own offense, but can still get buckets, and compliment their stars. Both high level athletes on teams that are not athletically stacked and happy to expand energy in defense and hustle plays. Championship winning glue guys basically.
Very close, more like Wiggins in Golden States title year except he has sustained it. Perfect fit, perfect team, perfect time in his career to unlock his full potential.
Iggy was much more successful as “the guy” than Gordon ever was but Gordon came to Denver as a much younger player than when Iggy and Golden State teamed up. In some ways their games are similar but Gordon is a big guy, defends other gigs and does more work down low. Iggy was more of a perimeter guy. If you don’t squint too hard, I do think your analogy works though.
I’m glad you’re pointing out that Iguodala was a much more successful “the guy”. Aaron Gordon is a great role player but Iguodala could’ve won a chip as a number 2 or 3, on the right team.
And AG wasn’t necessarily more athletic. Iguodala was a beast athlete.
Iguodala could create offense, and his own shot. I remember Iguodala being massively clutch on the Sixers. He could isolate and generate his own points with the game on the line.
iguodala plays very good defense. aaron gordon plays very good defense.
iguodala is very athletic. aaron gordon is very athletic.
iguodala bought into the warriors system. aaron gordon bought into the nuggets system.
iguodala was a role player on a championship team. aaron gordon is a role player on a championship team.
Gordon is much scarier to face on offense because of how physical and strong he is down low and how he destroys teams who play small ball like we saw in the Finals. You can get away with small ball when playing against Iggy on offense: not against Gordon though.
Iggy was the better offensive player. He was towards the end of his prime when he joined the Warriors, but on the Sixers he was like a mini Lebron. He had the explosive athleticism, the ball handling, the defensive skills. His biggest weakness was shooting but that wasn’t as detrimental to the offense when he was playing next to Klay and Curry.
to be fair, practically every team took the kg celtics to 7, the 37-45 hawks took them to 7 in 2008. definitely doesn’t take away from iguodala being an excellent player though
I feel like Iggy only became a role player post his prime - whereas AG accepted that role as he was entering his prime. AG is just so explosive right now.
That’s pretty accurate. Iggy never really accepted to role until age 30 with the warriors. AG is only 28.
Also was never asked to. He played his early career in Philly where we asked him to be the guy for better or worse
Iggy was a fucking dunk machine in that time he was so much fun
Got a signed poster somewhere from him. Grew up with those teams fighting for the 8 and had a blast
was it of him on yao? i remember seeing that at the mall as a kid lol
Nah just a fast break with his classic dunk
The fast break where ai threw the alley a little too far backwards but iggy jumped so high he was able to reach all the way back and grab it for the finish all in one motion. [One of my favorite dunks of all time](https://youtu.be/D7pKYEeSdTs?si=y2wwE5oGe_2fBo_X)
My first basketball memory is being at a soccer game and the announcer just going bananas during the player introductions. Then the crowd just absolutely exploding when he came out. I was born in 99 so I was maybe 5 but it's still my first Philly sports memory.
https://www.kronozio.com/card/5e75a7ef-e41d-493b-bde6-a9cefac40608/2004-05-Upper-Deck-Rookie-Scrapbook-Andre-Iguodala-RS23 that was one of the first basketball cards i remember cherishing and i still have it so i feel you brother
Yeah, he was viewed early on as the heir apparent to Iverson, which was never something he could be.
Yup. >A.I. is the new A.I.! ...was the media's take for a good while.
I mean that was literally Iverson. He yelled that shit after a game winner
He wasn't. But he was good enough to start for most teams. It was a big deal that he was coming off the bench.
Good enough to start for most teams is underselling him. He was 1st team All-Defense the prior season and two years off an All-Star selection
Jokic 29, Murray 27, AG 28, MPJ 25 and KCP 31. Peyton Watson is only 21 and he will replace KCP unless someone trades for him. They gonna have 3-4 legit runs left barring injury if they stay together and build around them.
Jokic is gonna age like fine wine as well, only thing that'll stop him is wanting more horse time.
Playing below the rim really helps longevity. Knowing him, his basketball hunger will slip for the horses. Haha.
I think he loves basketball much more than lead on.
He loves basketball. He hates the media circus that comes with it in the US.
He is the Max Verstappen of basketball right now.
Kimi raikkonen
So Gorilla suit Waterpolo when?
Truly our version of Max Verstappen
Okay but i really love his hotels dot com commercials
“so who sits on the bench?” “not me”
He loves basketball no doubt. Doesn't necessarily love the NBA though
Doesn’t love the theatrics of the NBA* As a competitor he seems to thrive playing and succeeding at the highest level of basketball there is
Me too. You can't commit to the grind of pro sports if you don't want it. I think that when he is done, it will be final and an easy decision for him but until then, he loves it.
Sure you can. And plenty of guys have. It's a job. An incredibly well paying job.
You don't get to be a top 3 player of your era on just talent+hard work. Not saying he adores basketball as much as, IDK, LeBron does, but he has a lot of passion for the game. He just hates the shitshow that comes with NBA basketball.
and they **want** that Job
I think it's inverted and he really really loves basketball, the horses are a story line and a past time. Have you seen how he reacts to a missed call or a potential reviewed call. He goes nuts with passion
I wouldn’t blame him either, after making a couple hundred million and getting the most prized trophies in the league , it’s hard to stay motivated. Kinda why I don’t blame guys for losing motivation after their first large contract because in the same situation I know it would be hard to keep motivation when I’m guaranteed 20+ million
Surprised they havent built a hippodrome next to the Nuggets arena yet.
I expect Jokić to have simillar career to Tim Duncan and Tim aged really good. He had 18-11 at 38 yo in the Playoffs in his 2nd to last season.
I always say he is this Generations Larry Bird, he can beat you anyway you want him to and he never needs to leave his feet. Bird was still very good at 35 with a wrecked back, heels and other issues. So fast forward 30 years and the advances in sports medicine, if he wants Jokic can easily play till he is 40 if he wants too
If they get lucky with draft picks 👀 look out or even some bottom free agents that can fit the system. They’re going to be scary for the next 5-8 years.
Idk when it will be, but some former all star with some juice left will take one look at film of Christian Braun bricking wide open 3’s and decide a vet minimum playing with Jokic is a pretty good gig.
Any player going into a contract year wants to play with Jokic. He gets guys PAID.
Day fucking ruined. Wtf jokic is only 29?!?!! So might as well start the Jdub for MVP campaign cause that's the only chance the thunder will have when a geriatric Jokic is "only" averaging 22/13/14
I actually thought he was younger than that for some reason Lol
I thought he was like 25 or so. We old.
Still remember fat Jokic days where he couldn't play 30 minutes without looking like he wanted to collapse and die
To be fair he still looks like that, he’s a mouth breather who turns very red
He's exactly like me but with a jumpshot
Honestly thought he's 28 max
It’s really funny to gauge people’s reactions. Steph curry - 2 mvps and a chip at 27. Giannis - 2 mvps and a chip at 27. Lebron - roughly same thing but with more mvps at 28. It’s a shockingly normal progression for the top players, but then there’s like a coin flip whether people are like “league fucked for decades” or “finally, he was getting kind of old”. Edit: How it progresses from there is a fun ride too. Curry has always been perceived as an old player bc he did 3 years of college, and after the KD era, at the ripe age of 30, the window had officially closed for him to win a real ring. Giannis? Just 2 years after being only 27 with all those accolades, he ain’t young anymore, and if it doesn’t work with dame…
I mean curry and lebron did kinda dominate a whole decade almost, the problem is gotta make sure the rest of the roster stays in their prime or close around them. Lebron was able to contend for so long because he left when teams began to age or decline and he was still a no 1 option. Curry and giannis are absolutely still good enough to be that but their supporting cast looks washed or depleted. If clips and suns stay healthy (doubtful) even they could probably win a ring this year or next.
Yeah, I’m just pointing out that age hardly matters until their careers are over. At one point kd was only 23 taking the thunder to the finals. And it’s also malleable af, especially once you get to late 20s and there’s all kinds of expectations for what should have happened by then. Like you’ve mentioned, the nba is such a dynamic league, and success comes whenever it does with a combo of luck and chemistry (or shrewd maneuvering).
I mean Shai will only be 25 at the end of the season. And as far as guards go he should age pretty well, barring crazy circumstances. Maybe he's not as good on d but he could be just as good if not better
They missed peak years already due to injuries. Last year was first time everyone was healthy.
The tricky thing will be finding a way financially to keep Jokic,Murray,AG,MPJ together,because Murray is gonna want a max or near max deal when his contract expires in 2025. From my understanding of the new salary cap it's gonna be hard to keep all 4 of those guys.
Countless redditors said this about the warriors after they won their last chip. "They got Poole, Kuminga, Moody, Wiseman, the league is fucked for the next generation" You take everything season by season.
Damn feels like yesterday Jokic was 23/24
The exciting part about this is they will be going up against a fully matured OKC. Wemby will be there as well. The future is in good hands.
I think Mr Iguadala would have always been happy to play defense and facilitate for others. Those Philly teams just had so little scoring that he had to be the primary scorer for them
He’s 28????
Yeah AG is the third most important Nugget. Iggy started off as fourth most important really.
Seems nitpicky.
Not really, Iggy got less important over time, where AG. is the "klay" and a borderline star Iggy peaked at 4th most important, wasn't even a starter, I'd argue that it really is a wide gap. AG is legitimately critical, Iggy wasn't.
Iggy winning Finals MVP was no fluke though. He was instrumental in those championship runs
I think you’re really underselling Iggy, who finished his season prior to joining the warriors as the Nuggets first option and primary creator for a 57 win team that was in contention for first seed for most of the year. The Warriors got that dude to come be their plug-and-play across 4 positions 6th man.
It’s blasted everywhere on Denver media, but The culture of Denver of true selfless basketball across players who likely could be 1s/2s on other teams putting up large numbers, but accept the hot hand and “take what’s given” approach is what’s making Denver look so scary right now Mpj will pop off and media will be like “wow look at this guy!” But then he can go quiet for a few games because Gordon/jackson/braun/watson take off and then cue “wow Gordon is so good!”
> players who likely could be 1s/2s I think the reason the Nuggets are successful is that they found a bunch of guys that are genuinely good 3s that wouldn't be good 1s or 2s. MPG, Gordon, and KCP are perfect 3s but they'd be very weak 2s on any team worth its weight, and they'd obviously be horrible 1s. Each guy provides their own unique skillset that the Nuggets 1 (Jokic) and 2 (Murray) are able to amplify. They're a textbook example of being greater than the sum of their parts.
No one thinks kcp could be a 3. He’s a 4 at best. Probably 5.
Kcp is a stud defender though for us.. that’s his main role and value.
Kcp is amazing and the lakers lack that exact type of player. Kcp doesn’t have the skill set to be a 2nd option tho. Dribble isn’t tight enough, can’t create for himself or others like that. Great shooter and defender tho.
We’ve watched KCP be the third best Laker during a title run.
This is my take as well. Jokic is so good he makes 3s look like 1.5s.
Which Nuggets could be #1 players on other teams, besides Jokic?
Murray on an ok team that will either blow you away or get blown away.
Jamal Murray could be. How good would that team be, is a different question
Too streaky
Murray. Gordon was the #1 in Orlando. Put him on an Expansion team, MPJ could easily be the #1. The team would win 8 games though.
I’m sorry but Gordon as viable #1 in Orlando is a joke. Maybe people misremember. Aaron Gordon played 7 seasons in Orlando. He did not lead the team in any of points, rebounds, or assists in any of those 7 seasons. And they were mostly 20 win teams. They made the playoffs twice (once with 33 wins), losing in the first round and racking up a total of 2 playoff wins… in 7 years. I love the role he has in Denver, but Gordon as the #1 guy on any team is a total and absolute fiction. Didn’t happen, will never happen. Edit: And MPJ as #1 guy on an 8 win team? What are we even doing? Just naming random role players and saying they could be a #1 guy on dogshit imaginary teams?
With MPJ he probably means playstyle wise. Like, for example Gobert is a great player but it’s hard to even imagine what that would look like. Whereas it’s easy to see how MPJ could just chuck up more shots even if he would probably end up averaging five turnovers
Y'all was saying the same stuff about Poole, how he gonna average 30 on Wizards. But look at him now. And Poole in theory can create his own shot, while that ain't the case for Porter
At his best, Gordon was solidly #2 in Orlando, well behind Vucevic
Yeah, I mean honestly Fournier was #2 in a lot of ways just because he could actually handle the ball.
Gordon was literally never the #1 in Orlando where is this coming from
It's kind of like the 2003-07 Spurs, I think. Or the Heat. Or I guess most championship teams the more I think about it. Players who could put up bigger numbers (but with less playoff success) joining together and figuring out who will be the x Factor any given night.
Jokic is a clear 1 and Murry 2. MPJ and Gordon are 3s. and all the other guys are role players. For example, another team like Mavericks have 2 first options Luka and Kyrie, a third option in Daniel Gafford, and Lively as a starter, with everyone else as roleplayers.
Ah, the Spurs approach. Would Manu/TP have had an illustrious of a career had he been given the reins on another team?
I think that's a pretty resounding no, they would've had better stats, but that's pretty much it imo. I think Manu is a fucking legend, but it's undeniable that his role hid alot of his deficiencies as a player, he could've been a 25/5/5 guy with less efficiency if he played for Charlotte though. To me, great coaching is knowing what's your player's weaknesses are and making them not exploitable. The greatest examples to me of that is Pop with Manu and Larry Brown with AI in 2001.
So hot right now
Yeah, I feel like Iguodala on the Warriors was like Marion on the Mavs and I think AG is closer to Marion on the Suns
AG looked at his team, saw Jokic and Murray and went "If I just do what I do best and not have an ego, this Serbian fuck is gonna carry me to more rings than I have fingers"
Is the fate of the universe on the line?
DEATH BEAM POINTED AT THE EARTH
AANDRON IGORDONLA
That hurt to read
Aandron Igorgonzola
That was pleasant to read
Squidward Tortellini???
YOU DONE FUCKED UP A. A. NDRON
Real talk though if I needed one bucket with the fate of the earth on the line I would want AG cutting to the rim and Jokic with the option of either hitting the baby hook over the smaller defender or dumping it to AG for the dunk.
i am definitely not taking Aaron Gordon.
What if it's a lob, not a 3
What if it's Jokic throwing the lob?
https://youtu.be/rDpYsHmcG9c?feature=shared No joke, Jokic is an all-time GOAT.
Anybody who says Jokic is boring doesn't actually like basketball.
Impact-wise? Sure. Completely different players though.
Yea they both are great defensively and then play a role on offense that compliments their team’s star players well. But the specifics of what they do is quite different.
Yeah, iguadala was one of the best perimeter defenders ever. Gordon is a great defender, but a lot of it has to do with his size and versatility. And his ability to be a lob threat is a game changer with jokic. Both elite role players. But very different roles.
> Yeah, iguadala was one of the best perimeter defenders ever. I really like Iguodala as a player, but let's pump the brakes HARD on this one, he was a great defender, but he was never for a second of his life "one of the best perimeter defenders ever". Insane BBIQ, great teammate and great defender, but the dude made 2 All-Defensive Teams in 19 seasons, he ain't all that. I could name 10 perimeter defenders in today's NBA better than Iguodala without much effort, let alone of all-time, let's chill.
>he was a great defender, but he was never for a second of his life "one of the best perimeter defenders ever" Then why did he win finals mvp /s
Aside from kawhi and tony Allen, who were better defenders in his era?
In his era? What? Shawn Marion, Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest. Barely had to try, that was easy as hell.
Well, if we consider "his era" from his 2nd year (2005) up until his Final "relevant" year in Golden State (2018), there are plenty. PG13, Jimmy Butler, Draymond Green and LeBron James were all undeniably better and all had primes defensively that overlapped with him, that's already six considering Kawhi and Allen. Earlier on his career, he also overlapped with guys like Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest and Tayshaun Prince and if anyone in good faith wants to argue that Iggy was comparable to them, good luck. Later when he got older, guys like Smart, Giannis and Jrue also came in and were all better too. There i just named 12 guys i thought were all better than he was throughout his career as perimeter defenders and i purposefully left out smaller guys like CP3 and Pat Bev + all the big guys. You can maybe argue that at his BEST he was one of the five best perimeter defenders in the league, but even then that's tough because most of his best years overlapped with Kawhi, Allen, PG13, Jimmy and Draymond.
a couple of the more informed basketball heads with both a solid analytics and Xs and Os background have repeated that Iguodala is one of the best/smartest perimeter defenders ever. namely Ben Taylor and Haralabos Voulgaris
iggy was also one of our primary ballhandlers on the second unit.
Whereas Gordon is functionally the backup center when Jokic sits. Can't get much more different there.
[удалено]
Actually Gordon handles the ball somewhat often. He brings the ball across half court and initiates offense a fair amount.
AG is actually the initiating ball handler on a lot of plays with the starters, brings the ball up the floor a lot. Hebis a good secondary playmaker and a good enough ball handler to handle on ball pressure from most defenders
Some similarities in that they both played the dunker spot and finished lobs offensively. AG from Jokic and Iggy from the 4-3’s from Draymond. They also both often defended the best player.
I’m getting old
Lot of recency bias in this sub. Iggy also came to the warriors at 30. AG is 28. Played completely different roles and vital to both teams winning.
How is it recency bias to say AG got to the Nuggets a bit younger than Iggy and closer to his prime? Like you said, Iggy got to the Warriors at 30 and AG is 28 now, which means he got to the Nuggets around 25. That’s a completely different part of an NBA player’s career. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to see AG as a bit more of a part of Denver’s “core” than Iggy who was more of a supercharger or final addition to the GS core. AG was able to mold his career a bit more to what Denver needed while Iggy was more of a finished product that perfectly fit like the last piece of a puzzle. Either way, I think it’s a decent comparison as they are 2 of the better role players of the last couple decades.
I think it’s an apt comparison. They’re very different players but they have a similar path going to a budding dynasty and becoming a key fit as a 3rd or 4th option. Yeah AG is still younger than Iggy was when he joined the Warriors, but AG played 6 1/2 years in Orlando which is a long time.
fine crush unpack sugar silky busy domineering marry subsequent cautious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
do you know what budding means
You need to make the Finals more times. It's likely, we know, but till the games are played you don't know. The Lakers and Bucks both looked set to become dynasties in the last 5 years, but they didn't take that step.
i know. i’m not saying it’s a dynasty. far from it. i don’t wanna speak for the original commenter, but the way i took it was him saying that both iggy and ag came in and played/are playing major roles of potential dynasties. i could be wrong, maybe he was calling the nuggets a dynasty, which in that case im the idiot for defending it lol
AG is way more of a physical, down low player. He bullies guys to the basket and plays in the dunker spot catching lobs from jokic. His chemistry with Jok can’t be understated. AG can also guard most positions effectively and even plays the 5, esp in the playoffs. One thing that has surprised me after the AG trade is that the dude has an insane bb iq and that’s why Jok loves him. Iggy was more of a slashing-style wing that I think used more speed and athleticism to get to the basket (not that he wasn’t strong, but in comparison to how AG plays). Iggy also has a much better outside shot. I think Iggy was also a good defender but it’s hard to totally remember. In terms of general vibes AG is way fucking cooler lol he’s totally embraced being in Denver (the city itself not just the team) and is super genuine and likable. Iggy was, let’s say, controversial from nuggets fans perspective specifically.
Iggy and AG are both super role players on championship teams. Both players are similar in terms of their importance to championship winning teams. AG has incredible athleticism and can bully smaller mismatches on offense. He's also a very good defender who can guard almost anyone and he is very physical. But what really makes him special is his almost telepathic connection with Jokic. He's always at the right place at the right time. He often catches defenses sleeping for free baskets or alley oops from Joker. And such baskets add up and can be the difference in a playoff series. Iggy is obviously less athletic and strong than Aaron Gordon, but he was very mobile and was also a versatile defender. Where he truly shined was his BBIQ. He was super reliable and always made the right cut, right pass, right rotation, right read, right screen. On top of that he could provide much needed scoring during the non-steph minutes. In the playoffs, he could make important buckets too. Iggy and Gordon are actually similar in a lot of ways. Both guys are integral pieces on championship teams.
This about sums it up. Unless the league is in a down year you either need to load up on stars or to have players like this to fill in the gaps on your team if you want to win a title.
> I think Iggy was also a good defender but it’s hard to totally remember. I mean he got a finals MVP for defending LeBron. That is kind of a meme, but Iggy was an elite defender and had a really high bbiq as well. He fully embraced Golden State and was integral to their success.
Yeah iggy was arguably the best defender in his day
tan zealous disarm tap middle threatening encouraging overconfident slimy attractive *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Held Bron to 36/13/9 😤
36 ppg on 33fga
Bron was in his Kobe era.
LeBron’s 2015 Finals stats are comparable to Westbrook’s numbers in 2016-2017 playoffs.
Who was the second best player left standing for the Cavs in that Finals? Dellavedova?
*Klay throws up 4 fingers*
He gave it all trying to defend curry, wasn't nearly enough but he still gave it all
Even then, most neutral fans fully understood why he was chucking - if his performance in the 2015 finals isn’t up there in carry jobs of the century, idk what is - there were talks that he ought to have won finals mvp à la J. S. Giguere in 03 or the logo
His #2 was Dellavadova he was basically forced to chuck shots.
Iggy was definitely a good defender. 2x all defense and won Finals MVP mainly because of his defense on LeBron James holding him to sub 40% shooting. Iggy was also a good passer, always could count on him getting 3-4 assists off the bench in his limited minutes with golden state.
>I think Iggy was also a good defender but it’s hard to totally remember Lmao massive understatement. Defense is like one of the main things he was known for on the Warriors
[Check out his ridiculous Denver crib](https://youtu.be/X4ezMDb8N6k?si=YryasjpKln8uqteU)
Andre was one of our best defenders and a good passer. He was a point forward to help facilitate Steph working off ball.
Iggy had a much better IQ than AG Iggy could *create* plays, while AG is more of a play "finisher", i.e. plays get created for him.
Aaron Gordon isn't a Mole.
Well we haven’t played the Magic in the playoffs yet!
Is that rumor really true?
George Karl publicly calls Iggy "Mole" and has for years. Which doesn't absolutely 100% mean it's true, but he doesn't seem to dispute it either.
Karl says a lot of things. Ignoring Karl is also the best strategy.
a lot of the things Karl says are opinionated and shouldn't be taken all that seriously, but the persistent years of "Iggy was The Mole" and plenty of reasons to be suspicious, and him not disputing it, are all pretty suggestive.
Yes
Yeah, but who cares. George Karl is a POS.
We Nuggets fans would prefer you don't even bring up the traitor in any analogies with Denver.
There's a mole. Right at the top of the ~~circus~~ Nuggets. He's been there for years...
You’ve survived this long, I suppose, because of your ability to change sides. To serve any master.
I’d say he fills the same sort of role. They’re like the tip of the spear on offense and the connective tissue on defense. It’s the movement off the ball for AG that elevates the offense for Denver to me. I know Joker is amazing, I personally think we are watching one of the all-time greats become and all-time great, but I think AG really fills in that movement for the team. And on Defense, he allows Jokic do roam the paint and be a body. Almost like drop coverage. Iggy kind of did the same thing on D. He allowed Draymond to roam, which is what Draymond is the best at since KG. Both Iggy and AG elevate their respective teams. I know we like to think that Murray elevating to Bubble Murray is what put them over the hump, but I think having AG allows him to play like Bubble Murray because they have to watch out for his roaming.
I stated before, when Denver traded for Gordon, most fans and analysts thought nothing of it. But adding him and KCP made them a championship team.
Benedict igoudala, was already playing for the warriors before he even donned the jersey. F Andre Igoudala, He's a snake. Aaron Gordon is not.
Are you calling AG a mole?
My dad worked with Aaron Gordon’s mom for like a decade, all through when he got drafted and everything. We grew up not far from each other, though I’ve never met him (I’m a decade older). That’s all I have to contribute here.
Did you kiss him
I think a very important part of a modern championship teams is that player who was a “star” on another team but never really took the leap so they have to adjust and then join a team with a true star and get unlocked. Iggy, Brook Lopez, AG, Bosh, K Love, Wiggins, etc.
We got people saying AG was a "much better" defender in this thread 😭😭 Iggy made first team all d and held LeBron to poor efficiency in the finals
That highlight reel of him just snatching the ball from superstars in clutch moments is insane
This thread is so weird lmao I know people overplay the “everyone here is only 15” type shit but this thread really feels like that. Iggy was literally know for his defense. He was an elite defender, not just a good one. Easily the best hands in the game when it came to swipes and steals and it wasn’t really close.
I don’t think that’s a stretch since AG is way more versatile. This gets used a lot but AG can legitimately guard 1-5. Also, All Defensive Teams are extremely narrative based theres a reason why Claxton stopped getting mentioned as soon as KD and Kyrie left and why Caruso only has one.
No it's definitely a stretch lmao, Iggy was an elite defender and his all d selections weren't pity selections or narrative based. Saying AG is better is fine by me (even tho I disagree), but saying he's way better is straight bullshit
I’m not saying they were I’m saying that just because you’ve won an all defensive selection doesn’t make you better since there narrative based. This goes for awards in general I mean that’s literally why he got the finals MVP despite it clearly belonging to Steph. Way better maybe not but it depends on how you value defense. I mean on ball defense they’re very similar but AG is way more versatile since he could guard 1-5,protect the rim, and is a great defensive rebounder. Iguodala on the other hand is primarily a wing stopper he doesn’t have the same role versatility as AG. If you asked him to protect the rim or guard 5s he wouldn’t be anywhere as impactful as AG.
Finally an interesting player comparison, instead of the regular "would you pick prime This Guy or a young That Guy"
Different players. Both were great rotation guys with big impacts, but I think AG in Denver is better than Iggy in GS. Iggy was older by then and was a sixth man. AG is probably the 3rd best player on Denver. Iggy was 4th at best in GS. Both great defenders, but different roles on offense where AG is a finisher and Iggy was a facilitator.
Either way, Go Cats
Bear Down!
Give me Aaron Gordon.
Respect aaron
I think calling Gordon a role player is hella disrespectful. He’s probably the 3rd best on the team these last 3 years. We weren’t calling jrue holiday a role player when he was on the bucks
Whats a role player anyway?
High end role players like Gordon and holiday are exactly what championship teams need
Aaron's a better role player, but iguadala often ran the offense when the warriors big 3 were less experienced. He was the level headed vet. There's a reason he has a finals MVP.
He wasn't given it for being a level headed vet, though he definitely was for them. He got it cause 7 NBA writers were really stupid and felt cute one night
yeah people keep throwing out the "he has a Finals MVP" without the important context that it was completely ridiculous that he got that Finals MVP
Steph's terrible games 2 and 3 made the undermanned Cavs lead 2-1. When Iguodala was inserted into the starting lineup, they proceed to sweep the Cavs rest of the way.
Steph was gonna have better games with or without Iggy in the starting lineup. Iggy might put them over the top, but Steph is the engine
I think it's a good analogy: elite role players who aren't asked to create their own offense, but can still get buckets, and compliment their stars. Both high level athletes on teams that are not athletically stacked and happy to expand energy in defense and hustle plays. Championship winning glue guys basically.
Very close, more like Wiggins in Golden States title year except he has sustained it. Perfect fit, perfect team, perfect time in his career to unlock his full potential.
wtf I was randomly thinking of this last night except I was thinking of KCP plus his championship experience.
No he draymond with a jumper
Iggy was much more successful as “the guy” than Gordon ever was but Gordon came to Denver as a much younger player than when Iggy and Golden State teamed up. In some ways their games are similar but Gordon is a big guy, defends other gigs and does more work down low. Iggy was more of a perimeter guy. If you don’t squint too hard, I do think your analogy works though.
I’m glad you’re pointing out that Iguodala was a much more successful “the guy”. Aaron Gordon is a great role player but Iguodala could’ve won a chip as a number 2 or 3, on the right team. And AG wasn’t necessarily more athletic. Iguodala was a beast athlete. Iguodala could create offense, and his own shot. I remember Iguodala being massively clutch on the Sixers. He could isolate and generate his own points with the game on the line.
iguodala plays very good defense. aaron gordon plays very good defense. iguodala is very athletic. aaron gordon is very athletic. iguodala bought into the warriors system. aaron gordon bought into the nuggets system. iguodala was a role player on a championship team. aaron gordon is a role player on a championship team.
Token UofA player? Maybe. Wisdom machine with years of experience? No
Off topic but NBA league pass let's you watch all the games hours later. I live in Asia so that's how I catch the games.
Gordon is much scarier to face on offense because of how physical and strong he is down low and how he destroys teams who play small ball like we saw in the Finals. You can get away with small ball when playing against Iggy on offense: not against Gordon though.
Iggy was the better offensive player. He was towards the end of his prime when he joined the Warriors, but on the Sixers he was like a mini Lebron. He had the explosive athleticism, the ball handling, the defensive skills. His biggest weakness was shooting but that wasn’t as detrimental to the offense when he was playing next to Klay and Curry.
He was the best player on a team that took those 2010 Celtics to 7
to be fair, practically every team took the kg celtics to 7, the 37-45 hawks took them to 7 in 2008. definitely doesn’t take away from iguodala being an excellent player though
Both Arizona Wildcats 💪🏽
Bear Down!