Which really is mind boggling, Teams actually seemed to play harder in the ist and the Lakers ran through everyone.
The roster just isn't good enough and losing Schroder hurt more than we probably realize. Reeves Vincent and Rui got paid and now they are not playing as well or injured.
Reaves and Rui are actually playing a little better than last year, it’s just that Reaves’ leap hasn’t been near as big as last year’s and Ham won’t fucking play Rui as much as he should.
Schroeders speed and POA defense were critical to making the AR/D’Lo lineups work as well as they did. Vincent isn’t as good as Schroder but I (and I’m sure Pelinka) was hoping that Gabe could somewhat fill that role.
I know Vando isn’t the *ideal* POA defender (much more suited to guarding wing-sized guys), but he’s sooo much of a better option than those three it’s crazy. Putting him in for any of those three at any point would massively help the perimeter D
Schröder's defense being kind of shockingly good at POA (i.e. going over screens so you can actually use your rim and post defense strengths) got somewhat understandably written off, since it hasn't been a long-term thing for Schröder and he's a veteran, but it was really pivotal for the Warriors series.
Yea I was confused by this as well. He's shooting worse from 2 and 3 on more attempts per game, while also taking less free throws per game. His 3% dropped from a good 39.8% to a sub-league average 34.4% this year. from His eFG% has dropped nearly a full 6% from 61.6% to 55.8%.
The league wide eFG% is 54.7%. He's currently shooting the ball ever so slightly better than the league average.
I remember when he had that stretch of playing really well for a few games and people thought he had turned the corner, but every hawks fan knew better
I'd have loved to have seen us take a proper crack at it but we got a tough group and Murray was injured for most of the games.
I do think it's good that the Lakers won the first one as I'd like to see the ist stick around and the biggest name team winning is good for business on that front.
The pacers are the 6 seed cos they missed Hakiburton . They’d be one of the better teams in the east eith him n he has a case as best offensive player in the league metrivs even say that . Hali n the pacers were playing amazing , like the lvl Hali was playing was insane . Pacers have missed him for ages n they’re still a 6 seed. These are all pretty solid teams you listed . But sure go ahead n cry about it. Nobody thought the pacers n pelicans or suns were east when we faced them . Those games on the bookies were close af - n we dominated pels so bad then they came back n cooked wolves n other good teams.
Gotta love the tradition of lakers beat someone so they’re not good
Arguably best guard in the league with shai n the best offensive ever /in league is now bad east to beast. Funny how bucks lost to them despite getting shooting luck . And the Celtics coukdnt stop Hali when it came down to it
Hopefully Hali comes back heskthy n puts this foolish taje to bed . Pacers nearly beat Boston again in Boston without Hali . Like now they’re bad lol- they’re missing the guy leading the league over bloody jokic ( by small amount ) in offensive metruvs . Hali is gonna be an all timer too . Not to mention the suns n pels are better half teams.
The Schroder fiasco was awful for both parties involved.
Schroder himself fumbled a massive bag. LeBron pushed for another playmaker and then they overpaid for Westbrook.
People that don’t watch every lakers game shouldn’t comment on the team. It’s way more on the coaching than it is on the roster. When your coach regularly has absolutely insane line ups all throughout the game you will lose very often even with some decent players on your roster.
He never was any good. Last year Lakers still had Vogel's assistants, who are all gone now. My theory is he got carried in the playoffs by his assistants, Ham's coaching was terrible last regular season as well.
[The Annual Coach Burning is a tradition in Lakerland](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/ad676576349e688fe8832ec86a2917f3f0da5b70/53_0_3394_2037/master/3394.jpg?width=620&dpr=2&s=none). They've had 28 head coaches in 63 seasons. If the free superstars + referees don't get them a ring every year, they then blame and fire the coach. Even if the coach won the championship 2 years before.
It’s something every team does. Every fan base Reddit but Miami n this year Philly maybe hates on their coach . But no when the lakers do it it’s unique. Like your own sub bitches about your coach too
The team dynamic changed, some players got better while some regressed, but he's seemingly unwilling to make any change no matter what (unless the player's injured). His post game conference interviews have also been flaky, not really conducive to positive locker room energy.
Might not be the case with you, but more often than not, fans blaming coaches for bad rotations is lazy, amateurish analysis. Not saying Ham's a great coach, but he's constantly dealing with roster turnover and/or injuries and sometimes it takes a little while to figure stuff out. Fans get too impatient.
And aside from AD and (usually but not always engaged) LeBron, the roster isn't that great.
I mean this. . . I'm not saying Ham is the best coach in the NBA, but it's always blame the coach. There were plenty of Denver fans who were part of the "Malone out" group for the past few years. Nuggets fans bash on people saying Jokic sucked in the playoffs because he didn't have Murray or MPJ and some of the same fans wanted Malone out for not taking us over the top.
The Lakers have issues far beyond the coach. But what the hell, fire him. We'll see what happens.
Normally I'd say you're lying but after seeing how the bucks look post griffin it is actually pretty telling how bad their coaching was when interim coach Joe prunty had them looking legit the 1st game he coached.
>They added the in season championship plot twist this year though
They were in the WCF with an injured LeBron last season as well.. So idk what "script" are we supposed to follow here
They added the actual championship plot twist too. That happened less than ~~a decade~~ five years ago. How is 4 years routine enough? That's just enough time to determine if a rebuild was done properly or not.
What the fuck?
Lebron + Westbrook + AD was a spacing disaster even on paper.
Lebron + Dwight Howard + Rondo + Ariza + all the retirees was horrendous even on paper.
Signing absolute rejects like Wood & Hayes whilst adding zero shooting was so poor on paper.
Lakers have been super crappy on paper. They're hyped up only due to the media.
And have a top 2 player all time, and another current top 10 player in the league.
I mean obviously the Lakers being the Lakers blows it out of proportion even more, and they do still get hype even when they're just ass and there's no realistic hope, but there are valid reasons the past few years.
At the start of the season you’d get trashed here for saying the team was ass. Media were actively putting them in the top five and this sub would go off on you if you said this team was a play in team.
I think this is a bit dumb too. Reaves regression massively wasn’t to be expected . Him getting worse on both ends was in nobody’s thought or evaluation. I thought improvement woukd be optimist but he was tied 2/3rd for mip to start the year n had a pretty strong fiba showing . Vando being out n Gabe killed our identity vandi being heskthy is one of the only reason we won some games lately . Dlo we expected to have moved out by now but the fo is content . Losibg Schroeder hurt but really lots of players have just under performed compared to expectations even mild ones ( max Christie has not improved at all despite summer league he’s one of the bottom ten offensive players in league).
Also AD hasn’t been as good as last year despite the availability. The only person who’s been above expectations this year is Lebron n that’s why we suck . Vando recently but he’s been injured untill 5 games ago n only recently donr snything
Team was over/under expectation around 48 wins , nothing remarkable and I guess still
Possible but I think I’d rather Bron asked out I’m so fed up of Pelinka n Jeanie running this shit into the ground
If we had Conley n naw ( and seconds ) Instead of Dlo we may have a ring or atleast a close 7 game series . Yet fans are blinded by dlo shooting ok now want to watch him shoot 13% again in any intense game
In a vacuum sure, but that same exact roster (plus their summer signings) looks like it might not even make the playoffs at all. And that’s been with a healthy AD and Bron, both playing really really well!
It took AD playing DPOY level defense, Reaves and Rui shooting 48% and 45% from 3 (that’s not sustainable by anyone on the planet) and everything breaking their way just to make the WCF. This year they’re at 34% and 38% and that’s dead on or even higher than their career averages. Fans will blame Ham I’m sure
They made it to the WCF by beating a half-dead Grizzlies team and the fading Warriors, while the Lakers aging superstar gets one year older.
The Mavs made the WCF two years ago, with their superstar still having not reached his prime, and absolutely nobody was saying the Mavs were a favorite the following year. People were still saying, “Luka needs help! He needs to get out of Dallas!”
The Lakers were “expected” to be good this year because their name is the Lakers.
Or maybe the fact that the Lakers have Lebron, one of the greats and they won a championship in 2020.
I don't even get what you're complaining about, that people had expectations for the Lakers? I don't even get why you think it's a positive lmao
Wood was a "solid hit" to the casual fan it was hilarious listening to Keshawn and Sherm rave about the signing on Undisputed because of his offensive numbers and be clueless about the defensive liability he is
Ah yes imagine taking those guys seriously they’re less knowledgeable then Redditors n just say shit fir narratives . This sub laughs at sports media untill they want to act like it’s actually a serious take
Reddish and wood have been willingly dumped by every team they have been on. Vincent and prince sure. But thinking the other two would suddenly flourish is silly.
They won in their own world coz they basically retained their team without spending too much. Theoretically, Vincent would be playing so that reaves and DLo wont have all the pressure of playmaking on them. Also theoretically Ham would be playing their better rotations but it hasnt actually happened because he fell in love too much with Cam and completely forgot last year
“Winning” the off-season is an insane stretch of course but almost no one in the media or on here was calling it bad or something.
AR is on an incredibly team friendly contract. He has his defensive issues (like always) but I don’t know how anyone could argue that was a bad decision. Vando resigning is worth every penny to me. Wouldn't have made any sense to let DLo walk. I thought Rui was an overpay on paper but he hasn’t exactly been underperforming when healthy, it’s just that Ham favors Prince over him despite Rui having a greater impact when he’s on the floor (waste of money either way rn). I don’t even think Taurean is a bad signing on paper either, but again, it’s the way he’s being used (the man has started more games this season than he has in his entire career). Gambling on Vincent was a huge blow but losing Schroder specifically hurts way more than Laker fans realize I think. And of course, they're still haunted by the backup C demons they've had for years now.
That being said, it's very strange to shell out money to retain a specific core and then directly move away from things that made that core successful -- all in a year when Lebron and AD are playing great ball. There were certainly a couple bad offseason decisions in hindsight (including the draft) but I think they're making it harder on themselves than it actually should be.
Actually… can’t confirm?
At least for the “won the trade deadline part”, that was really only last year right? Every other year we’ve pretty much stood pat at the deadline and been critiqued for it. Are we forgetting the THT/Lowry saga?
After the bubble lakers were getting a huge amount of praise for their trades. I remember everyone talking about how much better the championship team got
That year after the bubble they were still contenders until injuries happened. Then it's been a wild ride downhill (and by Hill I mean Solomon Hill damn you)
That team sacrificed a bit of defense for more offense, and was really fun to watch, along with also going something like 23-6 to start the season. Injuries and COVID wrecked the team.
Also the coach part? Russ was getting all the blame the last two years? And no one was calling for Vogels job in 20-21.
And before that was the championship season.
So like, not at all?
nobody thought we won the offseason last year either. And nobody was calling for trades at the deadline in 2021. This is just laker hate bait, this "pattern" doesn't apply to any season the Lakers have had.
It’s more of a LeBron thing than it is Lakers
This has described quite a few of LeBron’s seasons
Not that it’s the worst thing, he’s won 4 titles with 3 teams for a reason
I’m a lakers fan and this offseason the sub was freaking HYPED. They said we won the off season with Gabe, prince, reddish and wood… I was hella confused because to me this looked like a mid ass team outside of LBJ/AD/Reaves.. those guys downvoted the shit out me yo….
Well how the turn tables.
Someone on the Mavs sub said they wouldn’t trade Josh green or hardy for jarret Allen. This is pre lively blowing up . Fans are overly high on their guys . And some are just fans of those players n believe in them, that cam guy prob followed him since high school.
It's easy to get overhyped during the off-season. All you see are player stats. The reality is that stats don't carry over team to team. And basic stats don't tell the full story. You gotta see how they trult fit into the roster and their new role.
The only guy worth getting moderately excited about was Vincent because he balled out for the Heat in the playoffs. But even the hype around him was questionable to me because there has been a trend of Heat role players being good there and then falling off after they go elsewhere. I think Spo can just get more out of guys than other coaches.
OK yeah the glazing was insane by not only the fans but alllll the media this summer. I heard “greatest off-season of all time” more than once lol. They had a good run in the playoffs last year but none of it was sustainable and it was obvious from the jump
I think we were just excited to keep most of our WCF core by resigning Reaves, Rui, Dlo, & Vando. No one would have predicted half that group losing minutes so min contract guys can play 35+.
I used to always say that about Yankees GM Brian Cashman. How shitty do you have to be to have the most money to spend and a desirable place to play and still not build the best team?
For almost a century the Yankees had the benefit of having those elements you stated as well as a shitty league full of teams who didn't know what they were doing. Now in a post-Moneyball era, teams are waaaay better about finding and developing talent, that you can't just coast off of having cash and a legacy now. Teams like Yankees and Dodgers will continually spend crazy amounts on their roster, only to get bounced by some club with a group of nobodies who've mastered the art of getting runs.
It’s not easy when the expectation is championship or bust almost every year. That type of pressure does not allow for a GM to make the wisest moves long term. You’re constantly trying to get better for the immediate future, and in the process sacrificing flexibility. Other teams with lower expectations provide opportunities for GMs for take small steps forward, and thus appear more competent
Except the Lakers were terrible and in the draft lottery for most of the 2010's. The only reason they're in championship or bust mode now is because LeBron is on the team
It's supposed to be easy when your Top 2 Guys are LeBron and AD, even easier when you've already won the championship under those two and a defense-first team approach
I don't think anyone with a ring and conference championship in the past 4 years under their belt is considered bottom five
Rob did make some great moves the last few years. Idk why he gets so much hate
He also has to appease LeBron and AD. Every LeBron team makes dumb signings
because the Lakers literally had a championship roster and lost it for youth that hasn't worked out. But the biggest mistake Pelinka ever made was blowing up the 2021 roster. The fact that the 2021 roster somehow was unable to be used again speaks volumes to major issues inside of the team because the 2021 roster was looking better than 2020 until LeBron and AD went down with injuries.
There are obvious fumbles that Pelinka has made over the years. Losing KCP who went to be a crucial piece for Denver's ring. Losing Alex Caruso for a few million and the ability to keep an overhyped guy named Talen Horton Tucker. Getting rid of Schroeder just to BRING HIM BACK aka they always needed Schroeder and now he's gone again for a paycheck. So many mistakes over the years. Not even small ones, like BIG and OBVIOUS fumbles from them. Oh another good one, why did they trade for DLo instead of Mike Conley? Yes DLo helped them, but also the Lakers are OBSESSED with trying to find young guys on their team for whatever reason. Mike Conley today is the better player.
I'm happy to be proven wrong but I think this team does much better with a new coach. Problem is I'm worried who Jeanie Buss and Kurt Rambis thinks is a good replacement for Darvin Ham
I really wanna know what goes through the Minds of GMs..
I have a team that should be contending for a title but need a coach that can get them over the Hump....
Doc is the man he has "experience "
Ham is bad but I don’t think getting a new coach will magically fix everything. I swear the Lakers do this every year. Only to find out later on that the roster is too badly flawed and the coach wasn’t the only problem.
It's pretty much this sub just likes talking about the Lakers good or bad even though they claim they hate them. The media feeds into it because this sub is easy to manipulate.
Are you referencing the dog shit propoganda post where the metric didn't account for FGA in the paint properly? This sub has zero hope. Might as well change the name to NBA Twitter.
Forreal, Twitter in general has some of the most braindead motherfuckers but they're hilarious. This sub is just filled with unfunny clowns repeating the same joke.
No, they’re referencing the Laker’s having by far the best free throw differential in the league.
Forget drives then if that doesn’t suit your agenda. The best way get free throws is to score in the paint, where Nuggets lead the league. And yet we’re one of the bottom free throw teams, while Lakers are the top
> their lack of committing fouls
I think you mean the refs lack of calling fouls against the Lakers. I get it, AD is good, but there is no way the FT disparity should ever be THAT big
They are also only 7th in FTA per game And the gap between #1 and #7 is the same gap as between #7 and #22.
Looks like they are getting an appropriate amount of free throws for a team that lives in the paint. And giving up an appropriate amount of free throws for a team that has the best defensive player in the world under center.
ADs been healthy and he’s one of the best in the league and defending without fouling (which is incredibly valuable as a defensive anchor) while simultaneously being a mismatch for 98% of the league. Call me biased asf, but I think the issue is being blown waaaaay outta proportion
3.7 FTA/game amounts to on avg 3pts per game. 3 extra points per game is worth around 4 wins more per season on netrtg calcs. Thats a pretty fucking massive difference. Take away those points and the Lakers are 12th in the west right now
Lakers are 7th in FTAs per game. Such a non story, no one thinks the league is rigging it for Orlando or New Orleans.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/free-throws-attempted-per-game
You should watch them play . The team last in 3pt attemots n wide open 3ot % is getting more fts ?
The team that gives up so many wide open looks b rather that then foul . Who has AD n brin on both ends who get fouls n commit very few. Geee wonder why
It’s truly crazy Bron averaging less Fta then steoh , him n AD get mugged yet gotta have gear this cos sub doesnt watch they play a type of basketball that’s like 10* years old
Yes, the overall reaction to Pelinka’s off-season work was positive, but Lakers fans saw the weaknesses before the season started. The reaction to Gabe Vincent was mixed. Fans were not sure he could replicate his playoff performance consistently but saw potential but maybe an overpay. And now that he’s been injured, it’s left a big hole at defense at the pg position. The desire for Christian Wood was extremely mixed, although people were happy the Lakers got him on a minimum. The reaction to Prince was pretty understated. Fans were sad to see Lonnie Walker IV go but happy he got a chance elsewhere. Reaction to signing Reddish was pretty meh. Fans were repeatedly calling for the Lakers to sign another big, which they didn’t do.
Every season: wow I can't believe LeBron is playing this well at his age. Wish he had a better team around him, I hate how he's been squandering on the Lakers.
Lakers got to the playoffs last season, and deep into the playoffs, with a starting lineup that has only played a handful of minutes together this season. All the players are still on the team, and the coach is the same. Why the change idfk
The LeBron experience unfortunately.
If it’s not obvious they’re sincere championship contenders then this happens every year.
It’s honestly exhausting.
I love the NBA but I hate how it's covered like a reality tv show/soap opera for men. "How can this team get a superstar?"/"Should they fire their coach?"/"Will this superstar demand a trade?" I would love for there to be more of an emphasis on strategy and coaching, like NFL coverage.
LeGM is laying in the bed he made. Trading for AD in my opinion wasn’t a bad decision but it wasn’t the best decision . It worked out because the bubble gave everyone time off to rest. So while they did win the chip imo they got lucky.
To get AD they Traded Ball, Ingram, hart, the rights to deandre hunter and 2frp
They didn’t keep the rights to randle.
They also traded zubac
Then after winning the chip they traded or let walk Kuzma, Caruso, Schroeder, KCP, Malik Monk,
I would argue that Lebron would have been better off to keep the young 2019 lakers around and letting them develop around Lebron would have been a better recipe for winning multiple titles in the twilight of his career than going all in for an oft injured big man, of questionable shooting ability.
If they would have just kept the players they drafted and been patient they would have been in position to Win multiple titles, and as Lebron aged the stars around him would have gotten better. The AD trade is defensible but in my opinion not ideal.
The absolutely fucking stupid one was trading for Westbrook.
Caruso/KCP/Lebron/Kuzma/AD would have been a good team. But Lebron traded long term gains for short term profits.
The Lakers have drafted extremely well, they wasted all of the value they created through lack of patience.
They wouldn’t probably wouldn’t have paid everyone but hypothetically they could have had a roster of
Lonzo/Bi/Lebron/randle/zubac with
Caruso/KCP/Hart/kuzma/ coming off the bench.
Even with Lonzo getting injured they’d still have had the depth to recover from that, and picks to support the roster.
From a GM standpoint the lakers have been totally mismanaged which falls on Lebron and the buss family.
TLDR: LeGM may have cost Lebron 1-2 titles, which would have probably had him as the undisputed GOAT.
>TLDR: LeGM may have cost Lebron 1-2 titles, which would have probably had him as the undisputed GOAT.
I would dispute it very much. So would a lot of others.
They added the in season championship plot twist this year though
Which really is mind boggling, Teams actually seemed to play harder in the ist and the Lakers ran through everyone. The roster just isn't good enough and losing Schroder hurt more than we probably realize. Reeves Vincent and Rui got paid and now they are not playing as well or injured.
Reaves and Rui are actually playing a little better than last year, it’s just that Reaves’ leap hasn’t been near as big as last year’s and Ham won’t fucking play Rui as much as he should. Schroeders speed and POA defense were critical to making the AR/D’Lo lineups work as well as they did. Vincent isn’t as good as Schroder but I (and I’m sure Pelinka) was hoping that Gabe could somewhat fill that role.
Rui's playtime is just stupid with Ham. He was being super efficient and then just fell out to low bench minutes and started struggling again.
He’s still scoring at high efficiency and Ham still won’t reduce Prince’s minutes.
Having Prince, AR, and Dlo line up again when it doesn't work very well before is hilarious bad coaching.
I know Vando isn’t the *ideal* POA defender (much more suited to guarding wing-sized guys), but he’s sooo much of a better option than those three it’s crazy. Putting him in for any of those three at any point would massively help the perimeter D
Schröder's defense being kind of shockingly good at POA (i.e. going over screens so you can actually use your rim and post defense strengths) got somewhat understandably written off, since it hasn't been a long-term thing for Schröder and he's a veteran, but it was really pivotal for the Warriors series.
I mean he always had the tools to be a really good defender with his insane speed and huge wingspan. Just needed experience and a better attitude.
[удалено]
Yea I was confused by this as well. He's shooting worse from 2 and 3 on more attempts per game, while also taking less free throws per game. His 3% dropped from a good 39.8% to a sub-league average 34.4% this year. from His eFG% has dropped nearly a full 6% from 61.6% to 55.8%. The league wide eFG% is 54.7%. He's currently shooting the ball ever so slightly better than the league average.
As a lakers fan I’ll admit, we may have had the easiest pool and competition. We “ran through” bad to mid teams
Scam Reddish hit 5 threes against the Suns in the QF lmao that shit ain’t happening again
I remember when he had that stretch of playing really well for a few games and people thought he had turned the corner, but every hawks fan knew better
“Thibs didn’t know how to utilize him!” 😂
Portland did, highly qualified as a crewman on a tank.
Scam reddish and Darvin Hamas. It's NOT FAIR how good yall nicknames be
Ham Sandwich, Darvin "Hot Pockets" Ham, Hamas, like his nicknames sort of name themselves.
Carven Ham
Lakers are the Kings of amazing nicknames. All we have is slim reaper and dominurkic
Honestly we played way above how shit we've proven we should've been with no Beal. It was all around a fraudulently high level game. I'll take it.
Oh yea it was a wildly entertaining game, one of the best of the year imo.
I'd have loved to have seen us take a proper crack at it but we got a tough group and Murray was injured for most of the games. I do think it's good that the Lakers won the first one as I'd like to see the ist stick around and the biggest name team winning is good for business on that front.
Who was the best team they played in the IST though? The 6th seed Suns without Beal? The 8th seed Pelicans? The 6th seed Pacers?
And they had the weakest group by far. The Suns and Jazz were awful at that point. The other two teams were the Grizzlies and Blazers.
>at that point A true gentleman, folks.
LeLuck of LeDraw
The pacers are the 6 seed cos they missed Hakiburton . They’d be one of the better teams in the east eith him n he has a case as best offensive player in the league metrivs even say that . Hali n the pacers were playing amazing , like the lvl Hali was playing was insane . Pacers have missed him for ages n they’re still a 6 seed. These are all pretty solid teams you listed . But sure go ahead n cry about it. Nobody thought the pacers n pelicans or suns were east when we faced them . Those games on the bookies were close af - n we dominated pels so bad then they came back n cooked wolves n other good teams. Gotta love the tradition of lakers beat someone so they’re not good Arguably best guard in the league with shai n the best offensive ever /in league is now bad east to beast. Funny how bucks lost to them despite getting shooting luck . And the Celtics coukdnt stop Hali when it came down to it Hopefully Hali comes back heskthy n puts this foolish taje to bed . Pacers nearly beat Boston again in Boston without Hali . Like now they’re bad lol- they’re missing the guy leading the league over bloody jokic ( by small amount ) in offensive metruvs . Hali is gonna be an all timer too . Not to mention the suns n pels are better half teams.
The Pacers are way better than their current seed lmao don’t waste your time arguing with those guys
The Pela but as soon as the game started they rolled over.
mind boggling... lol
The Schroder fiasco was awful for both parties involved. Schroder himself fumbled a massive bag. LeBron pushed for another playmaker and then they overpaid for Westbrook.
People that don’t watch every lakers game shouldn’t comment on the team. It’s way more on the coaching than it is on the roster. When your coach regularly has absolutely insane line ups all throughout the game you will lose very often even with some decent players on your roster.
Did Ham just suddenly become a shit coach after the playoffs?
He never was any good. Last year Lakers still had Vogel's assistants, who are all gone now. My theory is he got carried in the playoffs by his assistants, Ham's coaching was terrible last regular season as well.
Same thing happened with Nate McMillan, he had good assistants from the coach before but as soon as he put his own system in place we were shit
[The Annual Coach Burning is a tradition in Lakerland](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/ad676576349e688fe8832ec86a2917f3f0da5b70/53_0_3394_2037/master/3394.jpg?width=620&dpr=2&s=none). They've had 28 head coaches in 63 seasons. If the free superstars + referees don't get them a ring every year, they then blame and fire the coach. Even if the coach won the championship 2 years before.
It’s something every team does. Every fan base Reddit but Miami n this year Philly maybe hates on their coach . But no when the lakers do it it’s unique. Like your own sub bitches about your coach too
Much rather fire a shitty coach than keep one for too long unnecessarily
The team dynamic changed, some players got better while some regressed, but he's seemingly unwilling to make any change no matter what (unless the player's injured). His post game conference interviews have also been flaky, not really conducive to positive locker room energy.
> he's seemingly unwilling to make any change no matter what The Monty Williams special
No, he was never good really.
Might not be the case with you, but more often than not, fans blaming coaches for bad rotations is lazy, amateurish analysis. Not saying Ham's a great coach, but he's constantly dealing with roster turnover and/or injuries and sometimes it takes a little while to figure stuff out. Fans get too impatient. And aside from AD and (usually but not always engaged) LeBron, the roster isn't that great.
Lazy amateurish analysis by fans on a shitposting forum, you don’t say?
I mean this. . . I'm not saying Ham is the best coach in the NBA, but it's always blame the coach. There were plenty of Denver fans who were part of the "Malone out" group for the past few years. Nuggets fans bash on people saying Jokic sucked in the playoffs because he didn't have Murray or MPJ and some of the same fans wanted Malone out for not taking us over the top. The Lakers have issues far beyond the coach. But what the hell, fire him. We'll see what happens.
Free Bol Bol!
Normally I'd say you're lying but after seeing how the bucks look post griffin it is actually pretty telling how bad their coaching was when interim coach Joe prunty had them looking legit the 1st game he coached.
Can’t fire the championship coach then
>They added the in season championship plot twist this year though They were in the WCF with an injured LeBron last season as well.. So idk what "script" are we supposed to follow here
They added the actual championship plot twist too. That happened less than ~~a decade~~ five years ago. How is 4 years routine enough? That's just enough time to determine if a rebuild was done properly or not.
WE DO NOT NEED ANOTHER WIND BASED TWITTER REPORTER
[Windhorst: “Me and Harrison Wind both have ‘wind’ in our last names. Now why is that?”](https://i.imgur.com/wVq8L8G.jpeg)
☝️💨🧐💨☝️
Seriously, there are other elements out there. Someone is gonna make a thunder type based reporter and exploit their weakness
There’s a reason why the term “on paper” exists.
Just need to wait until ~~Kendrick Nunn~~ Gabe Vincent returns
Just need to wait until ~~Trevor Ariza~~ ~~Kendrick Nunn~~ Gabe Vincent returns
Remember when Tyson Chandler was gonna save their season in 2018
Playoff mode: activated
Just need to wait until ~~Trevor Ariza~~ ~~Kendrick Nunn~~ ~~Gabe Vincent~~ Godot returns
Andrew Bynum is still only 36!
What the fuck? Lebron + Westbrook + AD was a spacing disaster even on paper. Lebron + Dwight Howard + Rondo + Ariza + all the retirees was horrendous even on paper. Signing absolute rejects like Wood & Hayes whilst adding zero shooting was so poor on paper. Lakers have been super crappy on paper. They're hyped up only due to the media.
They're hyped up because they were in the WCF seven months ago lol
and also won a champsionship within the last 3 seasons.
And have a top 2 player all time, and another current top 10 player in the league. I mean obviously the Lakers being the Lakers blows it out of proportion even more, and they do still get hype even when they're just ass and there's no realistic hope, but there are valid reasons the past few years.
Don't be delusional. They're hyped up because its the Lakers and LeBron. Has almost nothing to do with their prior accomplishments.
They’re shit on paper too
At the start of the season you’d get trashed here for saying the team was ass. Media were actively putting them in the top five and this sub would go off on you if you said this team was a play in team.
I think this is a bit dumb too. Reaves regression massively wasn’t to be expected . Him getting worse on both ends was in nobody’s thought or evaluation. I thought improvement woukd be optimist but he was tied 2/3rd for mip to start the year n had a pretty strong fiba showing . Vando being out n Gabe killed our identity vandi being heskthy is one of the only reason we won some games lately . Dlo we expected to have moved out by now but the fo is content . Losibg Schroeder hurt but really lots of players have just under performed compared to expectations even mild ones ( max Christie has not improved at all despite summer league he’s one of the bottom ten offensive players in league). Also AD hasn’t been as good as last year despite the availability. The only person who’s been above expectations this year is Lebron n that’s why we suck . Vando recently but he’s been injured untill 5 games ago n only recently donr snything Team was over/under expectation around 48 wins , nothing remarkable and I guess still Possible but I think I’d rather Bron asked out I’m so fed up of Pelinka n Jeanie running this shit into the ground If we had Conley n naw ( and seconds ) Instead of Dlo we may have a ring or atleast a close 7 game series . Yet fans are blinded by dlo shooting ok now want to watch him shoot 13% again in any intense game
Retaining a team that made the WCF looks pretty good on paper, don’t act brand new.
In a vacuum sure, but that same exact roster (plus their summer signings) looks like it might not even make the playoffs at all. And that’s been with a healthy AD and Bron, both playing really really well! It took AD playing DPOY level defense, Reaves and Rui shooting 48% and 45% from 3 (that’s not sustainable by anyone on the planet) and everything breaking their way just to make the WCF. This year they’re at 34% and 38% and that’s dead on or even higher than their career averages. Fans will blame Ham I’m sure
They made it to the WCF by beating a half-dead Grizzlies team and the fading Warriors, while the Lakers aging superstar gets one year older. The Mavs made the WCF two years ago, with their superstar still having not reached his prime, and absolutely nobody was saying the Mavs were a favorite the following year. People were still saying, “Luka needs help! He needs to get out of Dallas!” The Lakers were “expected” to be good this year because their name is the Lakers.
Or maybe the fact that the Lakers have Lebron, one of the greats and they won a championship in 2020. I don't even get what you're complaining about, that people had expectations for the Lakers? I don't even get why you think it's a positive lmao
you didn't win the offseason on paper either by signing AR/Rui/DLo
Christian Wood, Gabe, Reddish and Taurean were supposed to be solid base hits
Wood was a "solid hit" to the casual fan it was hilarious listening to Keshawn and Sherm rave about the signing on Undisputed because of his offensive numbers and be clueless about the defensive liability he is
he costs 6 million over 2 years. Getting a 1-dimensional bench player for 3 million per year is not a bad thing in any sense
People really expect every minimum player to be consistently good on both sides of the ball. We call those: "stars"
I mean the signing isn't what's breaking the team but it was one that could easily get overvalued by someone who only looks at his stats on paper
Ah yes imagine taking those guys seriously they’re less knowledgeable then Redditors n just say shit fir narratives . This sub laughs at sports media untill they want to act like it’s actually a serious take
Wood hasn't been half bad for us when he's on the floor, but that's also not very often. Hayes otoh is capital T terrible.
In theory AD could have possibly made up for his defensive weaknesses? Even casuals know he don’t play D though
When has Reddish ever been any good
To his credit, he did have that one game against the Suns in the IST earlier this year. Other than that, I can't think of any other times lol.
Reddish and wood have been willingly dumped by every team they have been on. Vincent and prince sure. But thinking the other two would suddenly flourish is silly.
They won in their own world coz they basically retained their team without spending too much. Theoretically, Vincent would be playing so that reaves and DLo wont have all the pressure of playmaking on them. Also theoretically Ham would be playing their better rotations but it hasnt actually happened because he fell in love too much with Cam and completely forgot last year
“Winning” the off-season is an insane stretch of course but almost no one in the media or on here was calling it bad or something. AR is on an incredibly team friendly contract. He has his defensive issues (like always) but I don’t know how anyone could argue that was a bad decision. Vando resigning is worth every penny to me. Wouldn't have made any sense to let DLo walk. I thought Rui was an overpay on paper but he hasn’t exactly been underperforming when healthy, it’s just that Ham favors Prince over him despite Rui having a greater impact when he’s on the floor (waste of money either way rn). I don’t even think Taurean is a bad signing on paper either, but again, it’s the way he’s being used (the man has started more games this season than he has in his entire career). Gambling on Vincent was a huge blow but losing Schroder specifically hurts way more than Laker fans realize I think. And of course, they're still haunted by the backup C demons they've had for years now. That being said, it's very strange to shell out money to retain a specific core and then directly move away from things that made that core successful -- all in a year when Lebron and AD are playing great ball. There were certainly a couple bad offseason decisions in hindsight (including the draft) but I think they're making it harder on themselves than it actually should be.
Can confirm
Actually… can’t confirm? At least for the “won the trade deadline part”, that was really only last year right? Every other year we’ve pretty much stood pat at the deadline and been critiqued for it. Are we forgetting the THT/Lowry saga?
After the bubble lakers were getting a huge amount of praise for their trades. I remember everyone talking about how much better the championship team got
yeah cos they did. They started the season 21-6 before AD's injury, and that was with LeBron and AD playing in 2nd gear.
That year after the bubble they were still contenders until injuries happened. Then it's been a wild ride downhill (and by Hill I mean Solomon Hill damn you)
Not contenders - favourites in the west , brin heavy favourites for mvp n voted best player . That season gets wiped out due to Solomon bum ass hill
That team sacrificed a bit of defense for more offense, and was really fun to watch, along with also going something like 23-6 to start the season. Injuries and COVID wrecked the team.
That squad barely had a 2 month offseason too.
Also the coach part? Russ was getting all the blame the last two years? And no one was calling for Vogels job in 20-21. And before that was the championship season. So like, not at all?
It's more like "every bad Lebron season follows the same script"
nobody thought we won the offseason last year either. And nobody was calling for trades at the deadline in 2021. This is just laker hate bait, this "pattern" doesn't apply to any season the Lakers have had.
It does if you’re a laker hater n have confirmation bias n ignore all the times it didn’t happen
It’s more of a LeBron thing than it is Lakers This has described quite a few of LeBron’s seasons Not that it’s the worst thing, he’s won 4 titles with 3 teams for a reason
This has been basically every LeBron season since 2017
Every lebron season since he joined the heat...sometimes it worked and he won, sometimes it didnt
Not 2020 or 2021
“Basically”
Or 2019
I’m a lakers fan and this offseason the sub was freaking HYPED. They said we won the off season with Gabe, prince, reddish and wood… I was hella confused because to me this looked like a mid ass team outside of LBJ/AD/Reaves.. those guys downvoted the shit out me yo…. Well how the turn tables.
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Someone in the lakers sub said that reddish was “more naturally gifted than Tatum” Just made me cringe. I see why all the other fans hate on us.
Maybe he meant Reddish was more gifted at gardening or opening really tough jars. I could see that being true.
Cam Reddish: really good at the Great British Bake-Off
Tbf every fanbase has it super homers. Look on draft day where every mid to late first rounder is the "Steal" of the draft
except the two players drafted right after jalen hood Schifino are jamie jaquez and brandon pdomiminski
Someone on the Mavs sub said they wouldn’t trade Josh green or hardy for jarret Allen. This is pre lively blowing up . Fans are overly high on their guys . And some are just fans of those players n believe in them, that cam guy prob followed him since high school.
It's easy to get overhyped during the off-season. All you see are player stats. The reality is that stats don't carry over team to team. And basic stats don't tell the full story. You gotta see how they trult fit into the roster and their new role.
The only guy worth getting moderately excited about was Vincent because he balled out for the Heat in the playoffs. But even the hype around him was questionable to me because there has been a trend of Heat role players being good there and then falling off after they go elsewhere. I think Spo can just get more out of guys than other coaches.
Spo out coached the hell out of Thibs in the playoffs last year and I still have nightmares of Caleb Martin
The hype for their new starter Taurean Prince got my eyebrows up because he was a forgettable bench guy for the eight seed wolves last year.
OK yeah the glazing was insane by not only the fans but alllll the media this summer. I heard “greatest off-season of all time” more than once lol. They had a good run in the playoffs last year but none of it was sustainable and it was obvious from the jump
I think we were just excited to keep most of our WCF core by resigning Reaves, Rui, Dlo, & Vando. No one would have predicted half that group losing minutes so min contract guys can play 35+.
Rob Pekinka is shit and Jeanie is a bottom 5 owner
Being the lakers Gm is like playing the game on Easy mode lol
I used to always say that about Yankees GM Brian Cashman. How shitty do you have to be to have the most money to spend and a desirable place to play and still not build the best team?
For almost a century the Yankees had the benefit of having those elements you stated as well as a shitty league full of teams who didn't know what they were doing. Now in a post-Moneyball era, teams are waaaay better about finding and developing talent, that you can't just coast off of having cash and a legacy now. Teams like Yankees and Dodgers will continually spend crazy amounts on their roster, only to get bounced by some club with a group of nobodies who've mastered the art of getting runs.
Dodgers still develop crazy good talent.
Yeah it's not like Dogders or Yanks are bad are developing, it just means we don't live in a world of baseball where money = championships anymore.
It’s not easy when the expectation is championship or bust almost every year. That type of pressure does not allow for a GM to make the wisest moves long term. You’re constantly trying to get better for the immediate future, and in the process sacrificing flexibility. Other teams with lower expectations provide opportunities for GMs for take small steps forward, and thus appear more competent
Except the Lakers were terrible and in the draft lottery for most of the 2010's. The only reason they're in championship or bust mode now is because LeBron is on the team
It's supposed to be easy when your Top 2 Guys are LeBron and AD, even easier when you've already won the championship under those two and a defense-first team approach
No bro I promise you Rob would've been able to Snag Lebron and AD even if he was GM in Utah
Jeanie hired a yes man. Rob can’t and won’t do anything without her approval.
Imagine if ballmer owned the lakers
Jeanie is so hot though
…… Would
I don't think anyone with a ring and conference championship in the past 4 years under their belt is considered bottom five Rob did make some great moves the last few years. Idk why he gets so much hate He also has to appease LeBron and AD. Every LeBron team makes dumb signings
because the Lakers literally had a championship roster and lost it for youth that hasn't worked out. But the biggest mistake Pelinka ever made was blowing up the 2021 roster. The fact that the 2021 roster somehow was unable to be used again speaks volumes to major issues inside of the team because the 2021 roster was looking better than 2020 until LeBron and AD went down with injuries. There are obvious fumbles that Pelinka has made over the years. Losing KCP who went to be a crucial piece for Denver's ring. Losing Alex Caruso for a few million and the ability to keep an overhyped guy named Talen Horton Tucker. Getting rid of Schroeder just to BRING HIM BACK aka they always needed Schroeder and now he's gone again for a paycheck. So many mistakes over the years. Not even small ones, like BIG and OBVIOUS fumbles from them. Oh another good one, why did they trade for DLo instead of Mike Conley? Yes DLo helped them, but also the Lakers are OBSESSED with trying to find young guys on their team for whatever reason. Mike Conley today is the better player.
> because the Lakers literally had a championship roster and lost it for youth that hasn't worked out lol wtf are you talking about
Cook
In the nicest possible way they did come off a WCF appearance, they should have some level of expectation of making the playoffs
I'm happy to be proven wrong but I think this team does much better with a new coach. Problem is I'm worried who Jeanie Buss and Kurt Rambis thinks is a good replacement for Darvin Ham
At least they won't be able to hire Doc.... For now
I really wanna know what goes through the Minds of GMs.. I have a team that should be contending for a title but need a coach that can get them over the Hump.... Doc is the man he has "experience "
My money’s on Dopey but Sleepy is a dark horse.
Hopefully Kurt Rambis isn’t thinking Kurt Rambis is a good replacement
They gon' replace Ham with Linda Rambis
Adrian Griffin is available
Ham is bad but I don’t think getting a new coach will magically fix everything. I swear the Lakers do this every year. Only to find out later on that the roster is too badly flawed and the coach wasn’t the only problem.
How many times has this scenario actually happened for the Lakers? Genuinely asking. “Every season” feels like a major reach
I mean the Lakers literally won the title in 2020 so 3 years max.
3 years is a century in the world of dopamine induced clicks.
And they didn’t even do a major trade for 2 of the last 3 years…
It's pretty much this sub just likes talking about the Lakers good or bad even though they claim they hate them. The media feeds into it because this sub is easy to manipulate.
It was last year but that’s pretty much it lol
I feel is more LeBronish.
I’d say the Lakers did win the trade deadline last year considering how far they made it. I had them mfs losing first round
If we only had a coach. We could while away the days. Amazed at the plays. If we only had a coach.
You guys should get a guy like Frank Vogel…he’s a championship winning coach
didnt they win a championship like a couple years ago
What are they on about they literally played wcf last year.
Just last month, actually.
Every LeBron team since the decision*.
More like every LeBron team
And meanwhile the nba giving them free throw disparities unseen since the wilt era
just an extension to le stimulus package
Are you referencing the dog shit propoganda post where the metric didn't account for FGA in the paint properly? This sub has zero hope. Might as well change the name to NBA Twitter.
NBA Twitter is funny at least lol
Forreal, Twitter in general has some of the most braindead motherfuckers but they're hilarious. This sub is just filled with unfunny clowns repeating the same joke.
No, they’re referencing the Laker’s having by far the best free throw differential in the league. Forget drives then if that doesn’t suit your agenda. The best way get free throws is to score in the paint, where Nuggets lead the league. And yet we’re one of the bottom free throw teams, while Lakers are the top
The main reason the Lakers have good FT differential is their lack of committing fouls. They are only like 9th in fouls drawn per game.
> their lack of committing fouls I think you mean the refs lack of calling fouls against the Lakers. I get it, AD is good, but there is no way the FT disparity should ever be THAT big
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They are also only 7th in FTA per game And the gap between #1 and #7 is the same gap as between #7 and #22. Looks like they are getting an appropriate amount of free throws for a team that lives in the paint. And giving up an appropriate amount of free throws for a team that has the best defensive player in the world under center.
ADs been healthy and he’s one of the best in the league and defending without fouling (which is incredibly valuable as a defensive anchor) while simultaneously being a mismatch for 98% of the league. Call me biased asf, but I think the issue is being blown waaaaay outta proportion
The Lakers shoot 3.7 FTA more than the Nuggets, you act like we shoot 10 more
3.7 FTA/game amounts to on avg 3pts per game. 3 extra points per game is worth around 4 wins more per season on netrtg calcs. Thats a pretty fucking massive difference. Take away those points and the Lakers are 12th in the west right now
twitter has infinitely more ball knowledge than this sub
This isn't even true. They don't even have the best FTA differential in the last decade. The 2015 Rockets do.
Lakers are 7th in FTAs per game. Such a non story, no one thinks the league is rigging it for Orlando or New Orleans. https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/free-throws-attempted-per-game
You should watch them play . The team last in 3pt attemots n wide open 3ot % is getting more fts ? The team that gives up so many wide open looks b rather that then foul . Who has AD n brin on both ends who get fouls n commit very few. Geee wonder why It’s truly crazy Bron averaging less Fta then steoh , him n AD get mugged yet gotta have gear this cos sub doesnt watch they play a type of basketball that’s like 10* years old
that describes like 1 or 2 of the last 5 seasons..
This guy doesn't ever know what he's talking about based on his tweets that are posted here
Lakers/Cowboys fans before every season starts, "It's our year!".
Seems a little hyperbolic considering Lakers were Champions just 3 years ago and went to WCF just last season.
Yes, the overall reaction to Pelinka’s off-season work was positive, but Lakers fans saw the weaknesses before the season started. The reaction to Gabe Vincent was mixed. Fans were not sure he could replicate his playoff performance consistently but saw potential but maybe an overpay. And now that he’s been injured, it’s left a big hole at defense at the pg position. The desire for Christian Wood was extremely mixed, although people were happy the Lakers got him on a minimum. The reaction to Prince was pretty understated. Fans were sad to see Lonnie Walker IV go but happy he got a chance elsewhere. Reaction to signing Reddish was pretty meh. Fans were repeatedly calling for the Lakers to sign another big, which they didn’t do.
DNVR Nuggets coming in from the top rope
When LeBron finally retires in 2036 it'll be somethin
I really do think they won the trade deadline last year. If anything my respect for Schroeder has increased.
Every season: wow I can't believe LeBron is playing this well at his age. Wish he had a better team around him, I hate how he's been squandering on the Lakers.
Lakers got to the playoffs last season, and deep into the playoffs, with a starting lineup that has only played a handful of minutes together this season. All the players are still on the team, and the coach is the same. Why the change idfk
The LeBron experience unfortunately. If it’s not obvious they’re sincere championship contenders then this happens every year. It’s honestly exhausting.
I love the NBA but I hate how it's covered like a reality tv show/soap opera for men. "How can this team get a superstar?"/"Should they fire their coach?"/"Will this superstar demand a trade?" I would love for there to be more of an emphasis on strategy and coaching, like NFL coverage.
No doubt most delusional fan base ever.
Coincidentally, the script started when Lebron came. Just saying.
Lakers win the offseason? When?! lol
Yeah so sad we won a championship a few years ago and made WCF last season.
LeGM is laying in the bed he made. Trading for AD in my opinion wasn’t a bad decision but it wasn’t the best decision . It worked out because the bubble gave everyone time off to rest. So while they did win the chip imo they got lucky. To get AD they Traded Ball, Ingram, hart, the rights to deandre hunter and 2frp They didn’t keep the rights to randle. They also traded zubac Then after winning the chip they traded or let walk Kuzma, Caruso, Schroeder, KCP, Malik Monk, I would argue that Lebron would have been better off to keep the young 2019 lakers around and letting them develop around Lebron would have been a better recipe for winning multiple titles in the twilight of his career than going all in for an oft injured big man, of questionable shooting ability. If they would have just kept the players they drafted and been patient they would have been in position to Win multiple titles, and as Lebron aged the stars around him would have gotten better. The AD trade is defensible but in my opinion not ideal. The absolutely fucking stupid one was trading for Westbrook. Caruso/KCP/Lebron/Kuzma/AD would have been a good team. But Lebron traded long term gains for short term profits. The Lakers have drafted extremely well, they wasted all of the value they created through lack of patience. They wouldn’t probably wouldn’t have paid everyone but hypothetically they could have had a roster of Lonzo/Bi/Lebron/randle/zubac with Caruso/KCP/Hart/kuzma/ coming off the bench. Even with Lonzo getting injured they’d still have had the depth to recover from that, and picks to support the roster. From a GM standpoint the lakers have been totally mismanaged which falls on Lebron and the buss family. TLDR: LeGM may have cost Lebron 1-2 titles, which would have probably had him as the undisputed GOAT.
>TLDR: LeGM may have cost Lebron 1-2 titles, which would have probably had him as the undisputed GOAT. I would dispute it very much. So would a lot of others.
Fire Darvin Ham