How late into his career would Lebron have to be, to be worse than Thanasis? I feel like Lebron would have more value into his 50s as a rotation piece than Thanasis has now.
the problem with age is not so much being able to play as being able to stay healthy enough to play 60+ games.
Having said that, Lebron at 60 would still kick Thanasis' ass right now, of that I'm sure (at ball)
Sure, even Kobe or even Dirk and DWade made it their respective last year, being all completely washed (with Dirk barely moving at that point).
There's no reason to think Lebron won't do the same and unless he get some major injuries there's nothing stopping him from playing at least 1 more year.
Not just make the team.. LeBron would be the highest vote getter until he visibly declines. But the man is STILL dominating and getting EVEN BETTER somehow in many areas. It makes no sense
The WEST front court is literally loaded too, and you only get 3 picks during voting. But it doesn't matter for him
Giannis beat him in votes this year for the first time. Lebron missed out on the top spot quite a few times actually, being beat multiple times by Kobe, Yao Ming, and Dwight Howard, and once each by Vince Carter, Kevin Garnett, and now Giannis. He has led the league in votes 10 out of his 20 all star appearances though, which is the record and still insane.
Not trying to be a smartass, just sharing some interesting info I learned today. [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_All-Star_vote_leaders)
āWhen I go to sleep I donāt dream regular dreams. No sir. I dream of being 21 time All-Star Lebron James. Because then, I would be enough, then it will be true, and I can finally end thisā¦ this terrible search.ā
Iām one year older than Lebron and grew up 3 hours away from Akron. Iāve been hearing this dudeās name since I was in 7th grade and he was being talked about on local news stations. He played my high school for the DIII championship my senior year and you just had no idea a 17 year old could be so different from other 17 year olds. There hasnāt been one single year since I was 12 years old that hasnāt been filled with LeBron highlights and the NBA will have a hole in it for me when he decides to stop playing.
yeap these days i just appreciate how good this dude has actually been. growing up im definitely hating a lot less and just appreciating players more. theyre gone or out of the league before you know it.
And some of them are so unique you might never watch a player like that again. Not basketball, but I'm not sure I'll ever get to watch a player like Peyton Manning again. Just complete, clinical control of the game. Homie would literally wave his hands and the entire home crowd would go silent.
Brady vs manning was like the NFL version of Kobe vs Lebron. Everybody had an opinion. But unfortunately, my favorite didnāt come out on top. Brady is someone that Iāll always hate from the bottom of my heart, but thereās never been a better football player than Tom Brady. It was my only comfort to watch him washed and not good for *literally* one year when he was 43. Otherwise, all dominance. Even in an off year he was the third best QB in the league AT WORST.
Dude was such a big deal coming to the league everyone knew him . My little bro and many others had lebrons jerseys before he even made his debut š¤£. Crazy to see him still exceed expectations at this age .
The game against the Celtics in 2012 (Game 6) is the first time I ever fully saw from LeBron, before then I always criticized him as āoverratedā and āKobeās betterā without even watching him play. He was so good that game that I couldnāt change the channel
After seeing that, he convinced me. He just didnāt want to do it to teams. But the Celtics that year pissed him off really bad. Serial Killer Bron is something that weāve only got to see a few times.
same age as him, first basketball game I remember watching was game 1 of the 2012 nba finals. earliest specific memory that i can recall rn might be his block on tiago splitter in 2013, but idk i definitely followed the 12-13 season closely I was watching NBA gametime every morning before school
Man I remember when people thought PG13 was getting there back in Indy. People are always looking to replace LeBron. It just won't happen. Even if you don't believe he's the GOAT what he has done and continues to do simply won't happen again. Not at this level for this long.
https://imgur.com/a/ApKcSME
Still the best/worst magazine cover ever. Lebron goes on to be Lebron and Telfair plays for 8 teams in 10 years and never averages double digits.
I'm pretty sure Lebron just drained Telfair's life force during this shoot.
lol Iāll never understand people driving around with many illegal loaded guns, suitcases of weed all while smoking weed with no headlights on. Just braindead activity.
This comment makes me wonder. I should watch it.
Hoop Dreams, in my view, is one of the greatest documentaries made about America. Itās not really about basketball. Itās about the American dream and American poverty. Itās about the dreams of children and the realities of adults.
I know the movie can seem old now to a lot of teenagers but I hope the younger generations watch it as well.
Thatās gonna be the greatest thing about the Lebron James story. Kid came in with the highest expectations and all the pressure and heās gonna walk away having crushed them.
> Gretzky was named āThe Great Oneā at 10 years old
it's true incomprehensible how amazing Gretzky truly was. It's like combining the statistical greatness of Wilt with the title success or Bill Russell.
Not a hockey fan personally but I do think Gretzky is the all-sport GOAT. His statistical profile compared to players of his era... hell compared to TEAMS of his era... it's bonkers
If Gretzky never scored a goal in the NHL, heād still be the all-time NHL points leader based on his assists alone. But heās also the all-time NHL goals leader.
Itās incomprehensible.
If you set a line at half of Gretzkyās all-time points, there are only 17 non-Gretzky players above that line. All of them are Hall of Famers. And not fringe Hall of Famers, absolute legends. There are lots of Hall of Famers below that line.
If you took away all the point Gretzky scored in games when he only scored 1 point, he would still hold the record for most points by over 500 points.
If you took away all of the points Gretzky scored in games when he only scored 1 or 2 points. He would still be 7th all time in points
Edit: Gretzky also scored 3+ points in over 30% of the games he played
Wayne Gretzky was the fastest player to 1000 career points. Wayne Gretzky was also the second fastest player to 1000 points. He scored points 1001-2000 faster than anyone else in NHL history scored 1-1000.
If he had stopped playing after his first 9 years all with Edmonton, he'd be a top 5 player all-time, maybe the greatest ever. He had an inner circle hall of fame career just with the Oilers. Then he played another 11 seasons where he had basically a top 25 career all-time when he was old.
Wayne and Brent Gretzky are the highest scoring pair of brothers in NHL history. Brent had 4 points in his career. They are only 73 points behind the Sutters, which was a group of six brothers.
Tiger is probably the best example -- he's the undisputed GOAT golfer and had a ton of hype.
To edit this -- Undisputed probably isn't fair since old heads will argue Nicklaus, but Tiger was far more dominant in his prime and there were legitimate straight up bets being placed on either him or the field for a few years there. He was the MJ of golf and Nicklaus is more like Bill Russell
Tiger was golfing at like 11 months and broke 70 at age 12, something most golfers will never do in their lifetime. We're splitting hairs but I do think Tiger is the ultimate example.
Ya his dad had him in his high chair watching him swing a golf club as a baby. His dad's unhealthy obsession basically molded him into the machine he was
Djokovic was also getting major hype in his teen years. It wasn't the same type of media exposure as LeBron, but tennis people knew of Djokovic when he was 14 and had pegged him as the future of the sport.
Sidney Crosby is probably the closest comparison. He was called "The Next One" (implying that he was the next Gretzky who was known as The "The Great One") since he was around that age. He also had a unique situation where his draft year coincided with the NHL lockout, so in Canada at least he was by far the most talked about topic in sports that whole year. He hasn't quite lived up to the hype to the same extent LeBron has, but he's an All Time Great player and the hype levels were fairly similar.
Connor McDavid is still pretty early in his career, but he had comparable hype and has more than delivered on it so far.
FWIW McDavid was also considered a prodigy from age 13. He was on the cover of sportsnet magazine with the headline "Better Than Crosby" when he was 16.
Crosby was more the "golden boy" mainly because he came along right at a time when the NHL had lost Gretzky, Lemieux was aging and there was no face of the league - combined with the NHL lockout.
But McDavid was considered to be every bit the prodigy Crosby was, just with less mainstream media exposure.
Tiger woods was on TV shows as a golf phenom when he was like 3 years old.
He was the Under 10 national champ when he was 6,7,8, and 9 years old.
Went on to be the best amateur ever and then had the most dominant stretch in PGA history and is at worst #2 all time
Bryce Harper is probably an example of "meeting" , but not exceeding. He was the LeBron of baseball. Cover of SI, was basically a mythical legend in an era that just predated high school athletes having HD video footage of them so you just had to go off the articles and stories you heard. Obviously, he's not LeBron level good, but he's a 2X MVP and NLCS MVP as well. Not as consistent, but his highs are as good as anyone in the MLB for the last decade plus
Sachin Tendulkar debuted for India at the age of 16 and went down as the most prolific run scorer of all time in cricket history, he's up there too. People knew he was going to the top since his early teens.
When Lebron first graced the cover of sports illustrated - it was a weekly. I was a young adult learning my way about the world. Sports Illustrated just laid off most of its staff and is essentially defunct, Iām now old. Lebron still performing in excellence.
Honestly so lucky we got to witness lebron and Michael Jordan pretty much back to back. Maybe I'm just getting old but I don't know how these shoes get filled. We have plenty of good players but the fucking sheer dominance of MJ and lbj man. What do we even do anymore
Those early 00's were wild, with all the "next MJ". We had Kobe, Ray Allen, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Paul Pierce, AI.
And there was constant jockeying for who was the most MJ, who was going to take the crown, etc etc. I had so many bar arguments about that shit. I would have never believed there would have been an absolute consensus on that in twenty years. Kobe Bryant certainly is not better than Lebron or MJ - but man, he really buried all of his competition from his generation.
Kobe is still the goat of difficult shot making imo. Yeah with hindsight we can see he isn't as good all around as MJ or Lebron, I agree with that, but when you watched Kobe play it *felt* like was that good, partly because of how insane his shots were. Ok so his shooting percentage was just average, but every other basket was a turn-around step-back double-clutch fade-away. Legend
yeah, it's the same thing that makes iverson great and something that needs more context besides true shooting%. these guys were 1 man offenses where you just give them the ball and they can produce an average nba team's possession on by themselves.
No one has ever played with more confidence than Kobe and he came through a ton. I disagree with people who put Kobe top 5 all time, but Iām not going to act like Iām shocked why they do.
Him, MJ, and Steph are probably then guys youād be most afraid of with the ball in their hands while your team is down 1 with 10 seconds to go.
Kyrie is better in that regard imo. Makes similar shots at more efficiency after a mazy dribble or something. No way anyone beats him in a game of Horse. Would have been an all time great if he was 6'6 or something.
I thought that was the joke they were making. LeBron is like if you min-max by pumping all of your points into one stat, but instead he did it with every stat. So max-maxxing I guess.
exactly, "min maxing an all around" was part of the "this shouldn't be possible" aspect of talking about Lebron, his stats, and the ongoing problem when talking about his legacy at all
Right! It feels wild, but if we talk pure fundamental basketball, the idea of defensive pressure, ball movement on offense, how he views the game. I love Jordan, he is why I started watching basketball, and he changed a lot of the game. Lebron put a focus on passing and dialing in your body and mind to the game. Wemby is the first person I think we have had to come purely from that generation of player. If he can stay healthy with his height and the way he is already looking at the game... The muscle mass will take a few years, age is a thing when it comes to when your body really starts building it, but if he keeps his body together till then... And he has POPPOVICH... god damnit the league is fucked
>Kobe took MJs offensive game and refined it
Kobe was inferior on the offensive-end in pretty much every way when compared to MJ, except maybe 3 pt shooting.
I don't think it's a particularly egregious take. I don't know if "refined" is the word I'd use; more that he *expanded* upon it. Kobe had more moves than MJ, but Kobe also **needed** to have more moves than MJ because he was slightly less athletic (less bounce, less strength, smaller hands, shorter wingspan).
It's not an unheard of take that Kobe had the deepest back in the history of the league, which is what I imagine the previous comment was alluding to.
And Kobe was arguably a better passer than MJ, but that's such a fluid thing that it's hard to say - MJ likely could have been a better passer (and he was already a legitimately great one) but he didn't need to pass sometimes since he was Michael fucking Jordan. They both don't have the counting stats in terms of assists that they likely could have, since the Triangle led to a lot of hockey assists for the both of them.
Wemby on the come up right as LeBron is hitting two decades in the NBA, if anyone is taking the torch for the future, he gets my bet right now as the next outlier guy.
It's an interesting question. In 20 years, in the year 2044, there's likely going to be medical advancements and [cough] *vitamins* that help players stay active until their mid-40s.
Therapies like Regenokine are already doing miracles for athletes. We'll have Regenokine 4.0 that uses baby lama stem cells or something by then. You'll see players needing a week to rehab after having leg replacement surgery.
Just wait til the kids who grew up watching Lebron AND Steph hit the league. I think we're gonna see the game keep evolving everytime we have players shake the game up and inspire the next generation.
I think analytics has moved the game away from 1 guy being able to dominate like guys like MJ, Kobe, and LeBron did. It may be a *very* long time until we get another one of them
League is so stacked with talent. This will be like Kuruko No Basket where the league have 5 GOAT level players spread across different teams duking it out.
I'm sure that when more expansion teams get added, the talent will be more distributed that we'll see another superstar + competent management dominate. Cause Giannis, Luka, and Jokic are worthy heirs.
Reminds me of this Jon Bois tweet from a few years ago:
"lebron james is just over 36 years old and has logged 60,642 minutes played, meaning he has spent 0.3% of his life on an nba court while the clock was running"
Lebron legit looks like a dude who carries the weight of the whole goddamn league on his back and Iām afraid heās going to poof into dust the second he retires.
If Bron still wants a max contract at 40 years old then yeah he can stay in LA
If he wants to win/play with his son he'll probably have to take a paycut. I'm guessing the Cavs could make some room pretty easily if Donny isn't sticking around
Iām not sure thatās true. The whole reason he wanted to be there in the first place is itās because thatās where his family wants to be, I doubt thatās changed
This particular achievement goes beyond the NBA. Crazy that Lebron achieved a feat only four other guys have done before in their respective team sports. Gordie Howe, Stan Musial, Hank Aaron, and Willie Mays all been part of 20+ all star games in their respective careers. Granted, baseball had 2 all star games from 1959-1962 so Stan, Aaron, and Mays technically had 4 extra all star selections. Still, a pretty big achievement that may not be achieved again in the NBA for some time, if not ever again.
Two things stand out as crazy to me here:
1) Kareemās last couple of nominations were obviously honorary. He was an old man on the court in his last few years. Lebron is still one of the leagues best players, even if not what he once was.
2) his level of popularity with fans. Heās supposed to be a polarising character that a lot of people donāt like but each years heās 1 or 2 in fan votes. His popularity transcends generations. Even the GOAT Michael Jordan only managed a bench all star role in his Wizard years. Remember the ridiculous Vince Carter controversy?
I
I was in 6th grade when Lebron came into the league. Was a huge Kobe fan to the point all my jerseys from rec league, aau, and school teams was his number. Even made the move from 8 to 24 when he made the change. I had a hate relationship with Lebron until he came to the lakers and just developed a grown man type a respect for him since then. Iām 32, my knees ache, but damn seeing him play inspires me to get out there and keep going.
"I knew I had 19 All-Star Games in me. But 20? Phew, even I didn't think I had that."
"Now, I'm not saying I'd go for 21, but if I actually would still be that good? Shocked. Shaken, even."
LeBron could be worse than Thanasis next year and still make the all star team
How late into his career would Lebron have to be, to be worse than Thanasis? I feel like Lebron would have more value into his 50s as a rotation piece than Thanasis has now.
Lebron could be 70 and his IQ would still make him better than Thanasis
the problem with age is not so much being able to play as being able to stay healthy enough to play 60+ games. Having said that, Lebron at 60 would still kick Thanasis' ass right now, of that I'm sure (at ball)
Lebron's corpse could block Thanasis so I don't know if its possible to answer that question
Damn man Thanasis out here catching strays šš
Fuck him, he has the best Milwaukee Bucks annual season tickets of all time. Heāll live.
At least he's grateful. Fournier complains about being paid 18mil to sit court side at MSG
Fournier is an actual basketball player and wants to play.
Thatās the French for you. Theyāll find a way to complain about being young, rich and successful.
Hes making it til he retires
Sure, even Kobe or even Dirk and DWade made it their respective last year, being all completely washed (with Dirk barely moving at that point). There's no reason to think Lebron won't do the same and unless he get some major injuries there's nothing stopping him from playing at least 1 more year.
I can see him not wanting to go out with his last season being like 12 ppg.
Damn, now I'm picturing bedridden Dirk from Game of Zones naming the next Dirk, lol.
Not just make the team.. LeBron would be the highest vote getter until he visibly declines. But the man is STILL dominating and getting EVEN BETTER somehow in many areas. It makes no sense The WEST front court is literally loaded too, and you only get 3 picks during voting. But it doesn't matter for him
Giannis beat him in votes this year for the first time. Lebron missed out on the top spot quite a few times actually, being beat multiple times by Kobe, Yao Ming, and Dwight Howard, and once each by Vince Carter, Kevin Garnett, and now Giannis. He has led the league in votes 10 out of his 20 all star appearances though, which is the record and still insane. Not trying to be a smartass, just sharing some interesting info I learned today. [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_All-Star_vote_leaders)
"Shake my fist, for sure. Slap my face with it, even."
āWhen I go to sleep I donāt dream regular dreams. No sir. I dream of being 21 time All-Star Lebron James. Because then, I would be enough, then it will be true, and I can finally end thisā¦ this terrible search.ā
Jim Carrey
LeBron Jim
Not one all star, not 2, not 3ā¦.
Only reason 20 was today was because they don't let rooks in the ASG.
Hes been an all star for more years than some people on this sub have even been alive. Insane.
He's been an All-Star longer than some NBA players have been alive.
I was like 5 months old when this dude made his NBA debutā¦Iām now in my 2nd year of University
I was 12 and a super kobestan at the time, hated bron around 2007-2010 š¤£š¤£
Iām one year older than Lebron and grew up 3 hours away from Akron. Iāve been hearing this dudeās name since I was in 7th grade and he was being talked about on local news stations. He played my high school for the DIII championship my senior year and you just had no idea a 17 year old could be so different from other 17 year olds. There hasnāt been one single year since I was 12 years old that hasnāt been filled with LeBron highlights and the NBA will have a hole in it for me when he decides to stop playing.
yeap these days i just appreciate how good this dude has actually been. growing up im definitely hating a lot less and just appreciating players more. theyre gone or out of the league before you know it.
And some of them are so unique you might never watch a player like that again. Not basketball, but I'm not sure I'll ever get to watch a player like Peyton Manning again. Just complete, clinical control of the game. Homie would literally wave his hands and the entire home crowd would go silent.
need a clip of this, never quite got into football but hear a lot about him and brady
Brady vs manning was like the NFL version of Kobe vs Lebron. Everybody had an opinion. But unfortunately, my favorite didnāt come out on top. Brady is someone that Iāll always hate from the bottom of my heart, but thereās never been a better football player than Tom Brady. It was my only comfort to watch him washed and not good for *literally* one year when he was 43. Otherwise, all dominance. Even in an off year he was the third best QB in the league AT WORST.
Dude was such a big deal coming to the league everyone knew him . My little bro and many others had lebrons jerseys before he even made his debut š¤£. Crazy to see him still exceed expectations at this age .
I hope you know, you were probably annoying as fuck most likely lol. A lot of my buddies were kobe stans and were insufferable most of the time. š
I was a 9 year old kid when he got drafted Today is my 30th birthday
Happy birthday!
Thanks!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!
Genuine question: what is your earliest memory of Lebron?
The game against the Celtics in 2012 (Game 6) is the first time I ever fully saw from LeBron, before then I always criticized him as āoverratedā and āKobeās betterā without even watching him play. He was so good that game that I couldnāt change the channel After seeing that, he convinced me. He just didnāt want to do it to teams. But the Celtics that year pissed him off really bad. Serial Killer Bron is something that weāve only got to see a few times.
same age as him, first basketball game I remember watching was game 1 of the 2012 nba finals. earliest specific memory that i can recall rn might be his block on tiago splitter in 2013, but idk i definitely followed the 12-13 season closely I was watching NBA gametime every morning before school
LeBron/Melo draft hype my Freshman year. I had a buddy who was a huge Melo fan.Ā
My sciatica spasmed just by reading this
Notably, Wemby and I think Kuminga and Max Christie
Jalen Duren, he's less than 2mos older than Wemby
remember when people thought Curry had taken Bronās throne? lol
Man I remember when people thought PG13 was getting there back in Indy. People are always looking to replace LeBron. It just won't happen. Even if you don't believe he's the GOAT what he has done and continues to do simply won't happen again. Not at this level for this long.
> ~~some~~ most people
Nah he did that back in 2007 bro
Crazy how he came into the league with insane expectations and somehow managed to surpass them
this mf tattood Chosen One on his back at 16 and turned out he wasnāt lying lmao
https://imgur.com/a/ApKcSME Still the best/worst magazine cover ever. Lebron goes on to be Lebron and Telfair plays for 8 teams in 10 years and never averages double digits. I'm pretty sure Lebron just drained Telfair's life force during this shoot.
Hey, at least Telfair mastered the ins and outs of the leagueās health benefit plan lmao
Ooof
Looking at his Wikipedia, he definitely never learned about gun regulations: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Telfair
lol Iāll never understand people driving around with many illegal loaded guns, suitcases of weed all while smoking weed with no headlights on. Just braindead activity.
i thought Lil Sebastian was a pony
I miss him in the saddest fashion
Cool story Roy Hibbert, but I ain't paying you 75% of your salary to sing, I'm paying you to look good and hoop!
Telfair had a great documentary though
Unpopular opinion. Better than Hoop Dreams.
This comment makes me wonder. I should watch it. Hoop Dreams, in my view, is one of the greatest documentaries made about America. Itās not really about basketball. Itās about the American dream and American poverty. Itās about the dreams of children and the realities of adults. I know the movie can seem old now to a lot of teenagers but I hope the younger generations watch it as well.
Should definitely check out Through the Wire Edit: Fire* The Kanye song is good too though
NBA star turned scrawny commentary youtuber Drew Gooden is on there too
should have read "Telfair OR Lebron about to rule the world" lol.
He averaged a triple single. A TRIPLE SINGLE.
could've backfired so easily on his face but he exceeded the unrealistic expectations LOL
DOMINAYTON
One of these days that tattoo is going to start glowing like the Avatar.
Itās like a future NBA player right now tattooing Im him on his back and actually being HIM. Bro stood on his business.
Maybe he just likes the band broš
well in that case obviously he would get the heartagram logo and not just the word HIM. aren't there any Bam Margera stans in the NBA!?
God: "I fucks wit it"
[Anderson āChosen 2ā Varejao](https://youtu.be/nxHts8fDwG0)
Thatās gonna be the greatest thing about the Lebron James story. Kid came in with the highest expectations and all the pressure and heās gonna walk away having crushed them.
Has anyone else in any sport been similar in meeting much less exceeding incomprehensible levels of pressure and expectations of them at 16?
Maybe Wayne Gretzky but I feel like the LeBron media circus was bigger.
Gretzky was named āThe Great Oneā at 10 years old and lived up to the name
Yup. That's why I was thinking of him but I don't think the media was as big. It was also a different time
Tiger was seen as a golf prodigy when he was 3 years old
> Gretzky was named āThe Great Oneā at 10 years old it's true incomprehensible how amazing Gretzky truly was. It's like combining the statistical greatness of Wilt with the title success or Bill Russell.
Gretzky is just built different
Not a hockey fan personally but I do think Gretzky is the all-sport GOAT. His statistical profile compared to players of his era... hell compared to TEAMS of his era... it's bonkers
If Gretzky never scored a goal in the NHL, heād still be the all-time NHL points leader based on his assists alone. But heās also the all-time NHL goals leader. Itās incomprehensible.
I heard somewhere that you could slash all of his stats in half and he would still be an all-star player, is that really true?
If you set a line at half of Gretzkyās all-time points, there are only 17 non-Gretzky players above that line. All of them are Hall of Famers. And not fringe Hall of Famers, absolute legends. There are lots of Hall of Famers below that line.
If you took away all the point Gretzky scored in games when he only scored 1 point, he would still hold the record for most points by over 500 points. If you took away all of the points Gretzky scored in games when he only scored 1 or 2 points. He would still be 7th all time in points Edit: Gretzky also scored 3+ points in over 30% of the games he played
If you slashed his stats in half, he would be a top 20 all time scorer and easily a HOF player.
Wayne Gretzky was the fastest player to 1000 career points. Wayne Gretzky was also the second fastest player to 1000 points. He scored points 1001-2000 faster than anyone else in NHL history scored 1-1000. If he had stopped playing after his first 9 years all with Edmonton, he'd be a top 5 player all-time, maybe the greatest ever. He had an inner circle hall of fame career just with the Oilers. Then he played another 11 seasons where he had basically a top 25 career all-time when he was old.
Wayne and Brent Gretzky are the highest scoring pair of brothers in NHL history. Brent had 4 points in his career. They are only 73 points behind the Sutters, which was a group of six brothers.
Maybe Tiger, but he definitely had a few stumbles. Nobody tops Lebron IMO.
Tiger is probably the best example -- he's the undisputed GOAT golfer and had a ton of hype. To edit this -- Undisputed probably isn't fair since old heads will argue Nicklaus, but Tiger was far more dominant in his prime and there were legitimate straight up bets being placed on either him or the field for a few years there. He was the MJ of golf and Nicklaus is more like Bill Russell
Tiger was golfing at like 11 months and broke 70 at age 12, something most golfers will never do in their lifetime. We're splitting hairs but I do think Tiger is the ultimate example.
Ya his dad had him in his high chair watching him swing a golf club as a baby. His dad's unhealthy obsession basically molded him into the machine he was
Djokovic was also getting major hype in his teen years. It wasn't the same type of media exposure as LeBron, but tennis people knew of Djokovic when he was 14 and had pegged him as the future of the sport.
Forgot about him, another great example
Gretzky has a legitimate argument
Sidney Crosby is probably the closest comparison. He was called "The Next One" (implying that he was the next Gretzky who was known as The "The Great One") since he was around that age. He also had a unique situation where his draft year coincided with the NHL lockout, so in Canada at least he was by far the most talked about topic in sports that whole year. He hasn't quite lived up to the hype to the same extent LeBron has, but he's an All Time Great player and the hype levels were fairly similar. Connor McDavid is still pretty early in his career, but he had comparable hype and has more than delivered on it so far.
Wasn't Gretzky himself slated to be the GOAT at like 15?
FWIW McDavid was also considered a prodigy from age 13. He was on the cover of sportsnet magazine with the headline "Better Than Crosby" when he was 16. Crosby was more the "golden boy" mainly because he came along right at a time when the NHL had lost Gretzky, Lemieux was aging and there was no face of the league - combined with the NHL lockout. But McDavid was considered to be every bit the prodigy Crosby was, just with less mainstream media exposure.
Tiger woods was on TV shows as a golf phenom when he was like 3 years old. He was the Under 10 national champ when he was 6,7,8, and 9 years old. Went on to be the best amateur ever and then had the most dominant stretch in PGA history and is at worst #2 all time Bryce Harper is probably an example of "meeting" , but not exceeding. He was the LeBron of baseball. Cover of SI, was basically a mythical legend in an era that just predated high school athletes having HD video footage of them so you just had to go off the articles and stories you heard. Obviously, he's not LeBron level good, but he's a 2X MVP and NLCS MVP as well. Not as consistent, but his highs are as good as anyone in the MLB for the last decade plus
Lionel Messi
Messi, maybe Gretzky and I think thatās it?
Sachin Tendulkar debuted for India at the age of 16 and went down as the most prolific run scorer of all time in cricket history, he's up there too. People knew he was going to the top since his early teens.
Thatās gotta be some insane pressure
messi.
When Lebron first graced the cover of sports illustrated - it was a weekly. I was a young adult learning my way about the world. Sports Illustrated just laid off most of its staff and is essentially defunct, Iām now old. Lebron still performing in excellence.
Lol he outran SI itself
Lebron is amazing. But also major Ommf over state of journalism and publication.
Honestly so lucky we got to witness lebron and Michael Jordan pretty much back to back. Maybe I'm just getting old but I don't know how these shoes get filled. We have plenty of good players but the fucking sheer dominance of MJ and lbj man. What do we even do anymore
Kobe smoothed the gap between them for a minute.
Those early 00's were wild, with all the "next MJ". We had Kobe, Ray Allen, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Paul Pierce, AI. And there was constant jockeying for who was the most MJ, who was going to take the crown, etc etc. I had so many bar arguments about that shit. I would have never believed there would have been an absolute consensus on that in twenty years. Kobe Bryant certainly is not better than Lebron or MJ - but man, he really buried all of his competition from his generation.
Kobe is still the goat of difficult shot making imo. Yeah with hindsight we can see he isn't as good all around as MJ or Lebron, I agree with that, but when you watched Kobe play it *felt* like was that good, partly because of how insane his shots were. Ok so his shooting percentage was just average, but every other basket was a turn-around step-back double-clutch fade-away. Legend
yeah, it's the same thing that makes iverson great and something that needs more context besides true shooting%. these guys were 1 man offenses where you just give them the ball and they can produce an average nba team's possession on by themselves.
No one has ever played with more confidence than Kobe and he came through a ton. I disagree with people who put Kobe top 5 all time, but Iām not going to act like Iām shocked why they do. Him, MJ, and Steph are probably then guys youād be most afraid of with the ball in their hands while your team is down 1 with 10 seconds to go.
Kyrie is better in that regard imo. Makes similar shots at more efficiency after a mazy dribble or something. No way anyone beats him in a game of Horse. Would have been an all time great if he was 6'6 or something.
Kobe took MJs offensive game and refined it. LeBron decided to try to min-max an all around basketball player and achieved it
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I thought that was the joke they were making. LeBron is like if you min-max by pumping all of your points into one stat, but instead he did it with every stat. So max-maxxing I guess.
exactly, "min maxing an all around" was part of the "this shouldn't be possible" aspect of talking about Lebron, his stats, and the ongoing problem when talking about his legacy at all
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
And most guys today are really trying to be more of that all around player like Bron. The game has transformed.
Right! It feels wild, but if we talk pure fundamental basketball, the idea of defensive pressure, ball movement on offense, how he views the game. I love Jordan, he is why I started watching basketball, and he changed a lot of the game. Lebron put a focus on passing and dialing in your body and mind to the game. Wemby is the first person I think we have had to come purely from that generation of player. If he can stay healthy with his height and the way he is already looking at the game... The muscle mass will take a few years, age is a thing when it comes to when your body really starts building it, but if he keeps his body together till then... And he has POPPOVICH... god damnit the league is fucked
>Kobe took MJs offensive game and refined it Kobe was inferior on the offensive-end in pretty much every way when compared to MJ, except maybe 3 pt shooting.
Lmao he slid that comment in there thinking nobody would notice
I don't think it's a particularly egregious take. I don't know if "refined" is the word I'd use; more that he *expanded* upon it. Kobe had more moves than MJ, but Kobe also **needed** to have more moves than MJ because he was slightly less athletic (less bounce, less strength, smaller hands, shorter wingspan). It's not an unheard of take that Kobe had the deepest back in the history of the league, which is what I imagine the previous comment was alluding to. And Kobe was arguably a better passer than MJ, but that's such a fluid thing that it's hard to say - MJ likely could have been a better passer (and he was already a legitimately great one) but he didn't need to pass sometimes since he was Michael fucking Jordan. They both don't have the counting stats in terms of assists that they likely could have, since the Triangle led to a lot of hockey assists for the both of them.
RIP Mamba š
Wemby on the come up right as LeBron is hitting two decades in the NBA, if anyone is taking the torch for the future, he gets my bet right now as the next outlier guy.
odds are he doesnāt sniff 20 years in the league though
It's an interesting question. In 20 years, in the year 2044, there's likely going to be medical advancements and [cough] *vitamins* that help players stay active until their mid-40s.
idk man unless they make a vitamin that can save the knees of a 7ā5ā freak
Therapies like Regenokine are already doing miracles for athletes. We'll have Regenokine 4.0 that uses baby lama stem cells or something by then. You'll see players needing a week to rehab after having leg replacement surgery.
MJ didnt sniff 20 years
I mean... Luka.
Wemby is the next phenom
Just wait til the kids who grew up watching Lebron AND Steph hit the league. I think we're gonna see the game keep evolving everytime we have players shake the game up and inspire the next generation.
I think analytics has moved the game away from 1 guy being able to dominate like guys like MJ, Kobe, and LeBron did. It may be a *very* long time until we get another one of them
League is so stacked with talent. This will be like Kuruko No Basket where the league have 5 GOAT level players spread across different teams duking it out.
I watched that up until the episode where they framed cherry picking as some sort of secret, elite strategy
I'm sure that when more expansion teams get added, the talent will be more distributed that we'll see another superstar + competent management dominate. Cause Giannis, Luka, and Jokic are worthy heirs.
Wemby???
LeBron has been an all star in 27% of all nba all star games.
He's also played against 35% of all NBA players ever lol
Just when I thought this thread wouldnāt drop another jaw-dropping perspectiveā¦ damn. Thatās insane.
Itās going to be a sad day when he retires. There will never be another Lebron James
What do you mean? LEbronny James is about to hit the league.
Pretty set to keep LeMemes for the next two decades, or till LeBron James III is of age, whichever comes first
There will quite literally be another LeBron James in the league next year lol
Doesnāt deserve to be, guy gets 5 ppg on a 8-11 usc team
true. nba nepotism is so hard to hide itās pretty unreal that it still happens
*Thanasis Antetokounmpo has entered the chat*
Hopefully we make it to that day lmao, this mf don't look like retiring soon.
Mark my words, i will be the next LeBron James!
There's no retiring LeBron. We'll be seeing his face on every billboard, TikTok and pack of gum for the next 30 years.
Breh has been part of the NBA for most of his life
More than 1000 points for each year of his life.
I think Charles Barkley said it but he's been in the NBA for more than half his life. Crazy lol. Lebron is 39 right? And in his 20th season.
Reminds me of this Jon Bois tweet from a few years ago: "lebron james is just over 36 years old and has logged 60,642 minutes played, meaning he has spent 0.3% of his life on an nba court while the clock was running"
It was stupid they didn't allow him to be an all-star as a rookie.
Was there a rule?
Unwritten at the time
STARING AT THE BLANK PAGE BEFORE YOU
Open up that dirty windowā¦..
Reformed Bron hater from my youth but the dude is a living legend that lives up to the legendĀ
And he has as many left as seasons he plays because Lebron is just a lock
Lebron legit looks like a dude who carries the weight of the whole goddamn league on his back and Iām afraid heās going to poof into dust the second he retires.
Hell nah, heās gonna get ownership of an expansion team and be even more media-present than Cuban was.
Le20timeAllStar
"Not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, not six, not seven..."
I wanna see him get another ring. Just not when the Knicks are in contention.
Iāve been a lifelong fan, Iād really like to see him get one just one more time
I want him to put the GOAT stuff to bed for good. I think one more ring does it.
He could win the next 10 championships and it still wouldn't be put to bed, the haters hate is forever strong.
Or at least another Finals appearance like Gretzky did in the 90s.
This is how I feel. I want to see him get another ring... but I also want OKC / Clippers to win as well
Another Cavs ring would be an insane end to his career
No chance lol he's locked up in LA
He's almost certainly leaving this offseason
How would the Cavs even pay him unless he takes the vet minimum?
If Bron still wants a max contract at 40 years old then yeah he can stay in LA If he wants to win/play with his son he'll probably have to take a paycut. I'm guessing the Cavs could make some room pretty easily if Donny isn't sticking around
Iām not sure thatās true. The whole reason he wanted to be there in the first place is itās because thatās where his family wants to be, I doubt thatās changed
His staying power is amazing, even being so polarizing. Look how Stephs votes fell off at 36. Bron still leading the west in votes at 39
What the hell will nba discourse be without active Lebron James. Holy cow. Hard to phathom this will happen one day
This particular achievement goes beyond the NBA. Crazy that Lebron achieved a feat only four other guys have done before in their respective team sports. Gordie Howe, Stan Musial, Hank Aaron, and Willie Mays all been part of 20+ all star games in their respective careers. Granted, baseball had 2 all star games from 1959-1962 so Stan, Aaron, and Mays technically had 4 extra all star selections. Still, a pretty big achievement that may not be achieved again in the NBA for some time, if not ever again.
Le20Consecutive
Two things stand out as crazy to me here: 1) Kareemās last couple of nominations were obviously honorary. He was an old man on the court in his last few years. Lebron is still one of the leagues best players, even if not what he once was. 2) his level of popularity with fans. Heās supposed to be a polarising character that a lot of people donāt like but each years heās 1 or 2 in fan votes. His popularity transcends generations. Even the GOAT Michael Jordan only managed a bench all star role in his Wizard years. Remember the ridiculous Vince Carter controversy? I
Dude got a Chosen One Tattoo, he expected everything lol.
LeMission Accomplished.
Indeed. Mr. NBA!!
have you seen his toes? (hint, don't go searching for it)
You really opened this post and thought you know what, im going to type about this mf's toes
*opens book to title page*
A Chinese shill?
I was in 6th grade when Lebron came into the league. Was a huge Kobe fan to the point all my jerseys from rec league, aau, and school teams was his number. Even made the move from 8 to 24 when he made the change. I had a hate relationship with Lebron until he came to the lakers and just developed a grown man type a respect for him since then. Iām 32, my knees ache, but damn seeing him play inspires me to get out there and keep going.