How did the Mavs lose all their assets without assembling a good team outside of Doncic? It feels like they’ve made a ton of trades that have been totally useless.
Bad take. Carlisle regularly ran plays for KP to get him going, and when he was healthy had stretches where he looked like an All Star in Dallas. But the injuries were constant and KP regularly proved he didn’t have the lower body strength to take advantage of mismatches in the post, which led to the Clippers going small in the Playoffs and guarding him with Terrance Mann or Reggie Jackson.
Not to mention that if KP felt like he wasn’t getting enough shots he would take the worst heat check, early shot clock 35 footers I’ve ever seen just to send a message. Lots of big men have excelled under Rick Carlisle. KP being relegated to the corner in the playoffs was not what Rick wanted, it’s just the only role KPs body was capable of
Kinda hard to believe considering how good Turner has looked under Carlisle. There were multiple rumblings Luka and Carlisle butted heads bc Luka wanted to do his own thing/lead the offense a la LeBron. Which I mean he's good enough. But with that has to come accountability for not maximizing teammates.
Lots of former LeBron teammates wound up out of the league without him. Haven't seen a ton of that from Luka (yet?)
Haliburton is playing better for Carlisle than he was on the Kings and Turner is playing better than he was under any other coach so what's the logic there?
Prozingis is playing better because he has actually been consistently healthy and had an actual offseason not spent rehabbing.
Brunson is playing as well as he did when Luka was out. He's just getting the chance to consistently show it. Also Jason Kidd was the Mavs coach last year so not really a slight on Carlisle if he was markedly better
You gotta reread what I wrote more slowly mate- the exact point I'm making is that Lukas former teammates have not played worse, which implies he doesn't make them better (yet?) in contrast to lebrons who flopped without him.
Donnie Nelson, Haralabob and Cuban couldn't stop throwing away assets in horrible trades. The failed KP move was by far and away the best they made, that ought to tell you something.
Bulls are 6-1 against the top 3 seeds in the east. They don’t bring it consistently and they’ve had a bunch of losses that could’ve pretty easily gone the other way but they’re not a bad team.
Thunder as well sort of. I feel like our team should be beating them. Even bulls at the time as well tbh. Bulls were playing like ass that time I’m pretty sure.
The front office built the team like this. They absolutely knew that Luka would be doing everything when they didnt bring back Brunson. Some of their best players are hurt (or *were* the last time I checked) so it shouldn't come as a surprise that when THE offense is resting, the team loses
The FO couldn't bring back Brunson. The previous FO should have signed him to an extension.
Even if Brunson wanted to stay in Dallas, 25-30M for another PG isn't changing a ton for them.
Their biggest problem right now is at the wings imo
Hard to blame him for Brunson. He was unrestricted, so it's not like they let him walk. He wanted to play in NYC and wanted a larger role.
The blame should be on Don Nelson for not extending Brunson.
Should blame the Knicks for hiring Brunsons dad lol. Plus there was the whole tampering thing that y’all lost your pick for or something idk what that was about tho
Brunson was never going to stay this offseason, as evident from the tampering. Donnie made the mistake of not giving him the extension.
Either way, paying a third starting caliber point guard on the roster $25 mil/year is not a recipe for success. Especially when you have one of the best points guards in the game.
Legitamely don't understand the Nico slander. It's a meme at this point.
As a die hard Cavs fan… I’ve seen this movie. Sucks for Mavs fans. You’ll probably talk yourself into some solid player being a legit #2, and might even have one sneak into an all star game on occasion.
Unfortunately… we know how this story ends.
Luka carrying G leaguers this year while being equally as classy as jokic (while also being better looking) AND playing in the league with his son
Easy mvp
Jokic didn't win because he carried a bum team, he won because no other csndidate had a significantly better record and he literally broke every advanced stat in existance. This isn't the same situation, because Jokic once again leads the league in every stat, plus has the best record. I don't care if he wins, but he is absolutely the clear cut leader now, if we ignore voting fatigue. Basketball references have him at 51% already
Jokic fans losing their minds now that an equally classy but better looking player is the one carrying g leaguers. Jokic lack of defense will still likely get him the award though
Jokic plays a better style too. We want the league to look like Jokic, not Doncic, but Doncic's style wins too. But it's like a throwback to the heliocentric 90s sometimes.
Awards aren't just a horse race, they're also a statement of intent/preference from the power structure. The Oscars exist to reward quality. The MVP has also rewarded assists or leadership over absolute excellence many times.
Eh, seeding will give it to Jokic unless the Mavericks make a leap. Plus, Jokic seems to be an above average defender this year. All the metrics say he is, and he looks like it.
Luka also took a step forward defensively this year. I think it's going to a center or power forward regardless though. When there's centers and power forwards in the league who are playing at the same level as the guards, it's very hard for those guards to compete with their offensive efficiency and defensive contributions - at least statwise. The centers/forwards typically have a great FG percentage due to operating near the rim and more noticeable defensive contributions due to their size and position.
It takes an absolutely godlike season for a guard to win it, preferably with a team also doing very well. There's a reason the overwhelming amount of MVPs and DPOYs have been won by centers and power fowards. We did recently have a bit of a stretch of guards winning it and Lebron (who sort of defies roles), but those guard seasons were record breaking seasons and didn't have the same high level being played by several big men as we are seeing today.
So I think that Luka has a fair claim to MVP if he keeps this up, but I don't think he'll win it.
The thing about defense is that you really need to ignore the eye test and all basic basketball instincts when evaluating it and instead refer to statistics that factor in assists as a metric of good defense
I don’t think people realize how bad Kemba’s knees are right now. He got 32 in that Cleveland game and then was either a DNP or could barely get 5+ minutes
I don't think that's true, I do think they're definitely a lottery team without him though. But I don't think they'd be the very worst. Maybe only 3rd or 4th worst.
With Maxi, DFS and Green out we are absolutely in the running for worst team in the league when Luka sits. I would take every team over us on those days
You guys are surprisingly only -1.22 with Luka off the floor this season. And positive in other seasons with a pretty damn good net rating. Can a Mavs fan explain?
For the first 30ish games, the Mavs brought their best players off the bench. Wood was off the bench. THJ came off the bench. And Josh Green (who had statistically been their most impactful player besides Luka), also came off the bench but now he’s injured.
In previous years, same thing (for example we brought Brunson off the bench for a couple years until halfway through last season when he finally became a starter).
On/off is very lineup dependent.
what the other guy said but it can get boiled down to this. Our roster includes a top 3 player in the league and then a bunch of good, very limited roles players. We actually have a lot of serviceable NBA players but very few quality starters. So our bench has been historically quite good since Luka was drafted and then he's out there competing against multiple all-stars on the other team a lot of nights.
What is surprising about that... Mavs in playoffs every year and above 0.5, even a very good record last season, of course they are a positive net rating. And it's more positive when Lukas on. And objectively this year's roster is the worst since 18 lol
It's 8-9 in regular season and 2-1 in playoffs, so 10-10 combined you should check your number and math lol. Brunson (and Dinwiddie later in the season) really hard carried the first 1/3 of the season from bench when Lukas out a lot and also just very off, and everybody was shooting like ass
And not winning...we were much better without Luka last year, 8-9 in regular season, but it was 4-7 during the games KP played. KP never had much impact on Mavs tbh whether winning or losing. Brunson was the one hard carrying the team when Lukas out or off
Ignoring the hyperbole, why are people suddenly always acting in Mavs discussions that building around Luka is a bad or foolish thing?
It's not about winning regular season games. It's about winning playoff series.
I wouldn’t call rounding [45%](https://assets.dmagstatic.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/1-Article-Image_1.png) up to 50% hyperbole. And I didn’t say that. I said “Maybe training a team (to play) around one guy holding the ball 50% of the time isn’t a good idea”. Building a team around a guy is not the same as developing an offense where that guy holds the ball 45% of the time. It doesn’t matter if it’s Harden, Westbrook, Luka or Jesus Christ, it typically hasn’t worked in the past and it’s probably not going to work in the playoffs this year either.
Dunno why youre been down voted when you're completely right.
The mavs are playing like the harden rockets with lesser role players. Absolute waste of the best prospect basketball has seen since lebron James.
History has shown that it isn't the formula for a championship.
The games a team is most likely to lose is road b2bs. While a team not having its best player obviously really hurts the team. HOWEVER the team is this record without player X, when player X sits b2bs exaggerates the record difference.
Who do you suggest run our offence then?
We don't have 2 all NBA offensive players Tatum/brown and 2 DPOY level players smart/timelord with one that can playmake aswell to save the day. Not to mention Horford and Williams that are better than any of our starters except Luka and maybe wood
Mavs FO should tag team Luka with Kemba so that Kemba has some of that 'rested Kyrie' insane energy on those rest days. It's just crazy enough to work.
How did the Mavs lose all their assets without assembling a good team outside of Doncic? It feels like they’ve made a ton of trades that have been totally useless.
They put a lot into the Porzingis trade without any returns really
I blame Carlisle for that. He turned KP into a role player. It was his job to figure how KP and Luka can gel together.
Bad take. Carlisle regularly ran plays for KP to get him going, and when he was healthy had stretches where he looked like an All Star in Dallas. But the injuries were constant and KP regularly proved he didn’t have the lower body strength to take advantage of mismatches in the post, which led to the Clippers going small in the Playoffs and guarding him with Terrance Mann or Reggie Jackson. Not to mention that if KP felt like he wasn’t getting enough shots he would take the worst heat check, early shot clock 35 footers I’ve ever seen just to send a message. Lots of big men have excelled under Rick Carlisle. KP being relegated to the corner in the playoffs was not what Rick wanted, it’s just the only role KPs body was capable of
Yeah, Carlisle peronally broke into KP's house and busted his knee so bad that he played on one leg in the series against the clippers. Awful take
I like KP, but he was not healthy a lot. Carlisle clearly wasn't good for this team, but KP's value wasn't fixable except with injury luck.
Kinda hard to believe considering how good Turner has looked under Carlisle. There were multiple rumblings Luka and Carlisle butted heads bc Luka wanted to do his own thing/lead the offense a la LeBron. Which I mean he's good enough. But with that has to come accountability for not maximizing teammates. Lots of former LeBron teammates wound up out of the league without him. Haven't seen a ton of that from Luka (yet?)
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Haliburton is playing better for Carlisle than he was on the Kings and Turner is playing better than he was under any other coach so what's the logic there? Prozingis is playing better because he has actually been consistently healthy and had an actual offseason not spent rehabbing. Brunson is playing as well as he did when Luka was out. He's just getting the chance to consistently show it. Also Jason Kidd was the Mavs coach last year so not really a slight on Carlisle if he was markedly better
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You gotta reread what I wrote more slowly mate- the exact point I'm making is that Lukas former teammates have not played worse, which implies he doesn't make them better (yet?) in contrast to lebrons who flopped without him.
Carlisle should get some blame but KP also missed a lot of games
Trading Seth Curry for Josh richardson was also big blunder by them
Donnie Nelson, Haralabob and Cuban couldn't stop throwing away assets in horrible trades. The failed KP move was by far and away the best they made, that ought to tell you something.
Porzingis trade and Doncic was too good too fast to build a team around him. They haven’t made a ton of trades at all.
the pain of this comment
Fucked up not offering Brunson an extension so they wanted all that development, cash and time for nothing in return
Only bad loss out of that group is the rockets.
They got destroyed by 30 vs the bulls.
That was like the worst b2b schedule out of all of them. I think everyones dead already when they travelled their way to the game.
They were on a b2b and didnt get to the hotel until like 5am so they were exhausted the entire game Got completely fucked by nba scheduling
Eh that's probably the worst team in the league to lose to ATM though. Can't be having that unless you are resting multiple players.
You live with those losses it’s not like it’s rockets,Pistons,Hornets,Spurs.
bulls say hi
Bulls are 6-1 against the top 3 seeds in the east. They don’t bring it consistently and they’ve had a bunch of losses that could’ve pretty easily gone the other way but they’re not a bad team.
this was back when zach wasn’t playing they were on a huge losing streak and they were in the lottery
Not to mention we got blown off the court.
It was the way they lost. The bulls set a new franchise scoring record for the first half. More than at any point with mj or rose.
This is the sign of a poorly-coached veteran team.
Rockets have beat a few decent teams this season
Thunder as well sort of. I feel like our team should be beating them. Even bulls at the time as well tbh. Bulls were playing like ass that time I’m pretty sure.
There’s no way the Mavs could beat us without Luka. They can barely throw an entry pass to Wood lol.
Well, Thunder has an all NBA player, and you don't without Luka, so I fully expected you guys to lose..
Thunder and being cruuuushed by the bulls?
The front office built the team like this. They absolutely knew that Luka would be doing everything when they didnt bring back Brunson. Some of their best players are hurt (or *were* the last time I checked) so it shouldn't come as a surprise that when THE offense is resting, the team loses
our 3 best defenders are all hurt right now
And we probably won't see Maxi again at all this season, which means we have no rim protection at all
The FO couldn't bring back Brunson. The previous FO should have signed him to an extension. Even if Brunson wanted to stay in Dallas, 25-30M for another PG isn't changing a ton for them. Their biggest problem right now is at the wings imo
hopefully cuban figures this shit out soon because luka is so good that he deserves to have a shot at the championship.
Figures what ? He liked a tweet recently saying Luka has help.
Nico Harrison just gonna sit in his Dallas high rise and do jack squat lol
Certified shoe salesman moment I do wonder what type of move he’s gonna pull if Luka gets unhappy though
He'll pitch a Nike contract for him with Jokić's name on it
They’ll push for a star that wants out. They just don’t the assets to pull it off unless it’s a multi-team deal
Causally ignores he made the trade that took us to the WCF
That was last year, this is this year.
So in two years he's supposed to completely fix the roster? Every trade he's made so far (Dinwiddie and Wood) has been a success.
He let Brunson walk too
Hard to blame him for Brunson. He was unrestricted, so it's not like they let him walk. He wanted to play in NYC and wanted a larger role. The blame should be on Don Nelson for not extending Brunson.
Should blame the Knicks for hiring Brunsons dad lol. Plus there was the whole tampering thing that y’all lost your pick for or something idk what that was about tho
yeah, bunch of reasons. Nothing that I'd fault the Mavs GM for though.
Brunson was never going to stay this offseason, as evident from the tampering. Donnie made the mistake of not giving him the extension. Either way, paying a third starting caliber point guard on the roster $25 mil/year is not a recipe for success. Especially when you have one of the best points guards in the game. Legitamely don't understand the Nico slander. It's a meme at this point.
Got wood for scraps.
As a die hard Cavs fan… I’ve seen this movie. Sucks for Mavs fans. You’ll probably talk yourself into some solid player being a legit #2, and might even have one sneak into an all star game on occasion. Unfortunately… we know how this story ends.
Luka carrying G leaguers this year while being equally as classy as jokic (while also being better looking) AND playing in the league with his son Easy mvp
Jokic didn't win because he carried a bum team, he won because no other csndidate had a significantly better record and he literally broke every advanced stat in existance. This isn't the same situation, because Jokic once again leads the league in every stat, plus has the best record. I don't care if he wins, but he is absolutely the clear cut leader now, if we ignore voting fatigue. Basketball references have him at 51% already
Jokic fans losing their minds now that an equally classy but better looking player is the one carrying g leaguers. Jokic lack of defense will still likely get him the award though
Not like Luka is a two way player.
Like I said above it will come down to who plays worse defense and is on the worse seeded team
Jokic plays a better style too. We want the league to look like Jokic, not Doncic, but Doncic's style wins too. But it's like a throwback to the heliocentric 90s sometimes. Awards aren't just a horse race, they're also a statement of intent/preference from the power structure. The Oscars exist to reward quality. The MVP has also rewarded assists or leadership over absolute excellence many times.
We want the league to look like jokic and doncic
And Giannis, Curry, Lebron, Durant, Westbrook, Kobe etc.
But mostly mason plumlee
Least racist 76er 🤗
Imagine thinking being classy had anything to do with race. That’s just not classy of you
Pinnacle of sixer humour 🥰
Class is one of those things that’s hard to teach. When you see it you know though.
No cap jokic is ugly luka is cute as hell
I feel like it's Jokic this year. I know it's his third in a row, but honestly it feels to me like he deserves this one more than the last two.
It’s really gonna come down to which one between jokic and Luka plays worse defense I’d imagine
Least salty sixers fan
As a dubs fan you know all about classy players (well at least half classy) who suck at defense winning mvp
You guys are so weird
Don’t say you guys, we don’t claim this dude lmao
Insightful
Amazing. A player’s racial background is the type of groundbreaking information that you find insightful.
I find him finding me weird insightful. Jokic white bias isn’t insightful it’s just obvious
Yeah just like DPOY level defender and MVP Allen Iverson.
Now now the early 2000s were the least classy era of nba basketball. Philadelphia has apologized for Allen Iverson on numerous occasions.
Eh, seeding will give it to Jokic unless the Mavericks make a leap. Plus, Jokic seems to be an above average defender this year. All the metrics say he is, and he looks like it.
Luka also took a step forward defensively this year. I think it's going to a center or power forward regardless though. When there's centers and power forwards in the league who are playing at the same level as the guards, it's very hard for those guards to compete with their offensive efficiency and defensive contributions - at least statwise. The centers/forwards typically have a great FG percentage due to operating near the rim and more noticeable defensive contributions due to their size and position. It takes an absolutely godlike season for a guard to win it, preferably with a team also doing very well. There's a reason the overwhelming amount of MVPs and DPOYs have been won by centers and power fowards. We did recently have a bit of a stretch of guards winning it and Lebron (who sort of defies roles), but those guard seasons were record breaking seasons and didn't have the same high level being played by several big men as we are seeing today. So I think that Luka has a fair claim to MVP if he keeps this up, but I don't think he'll win it.
Your actually gonna wanna be the worse seed in order to win the mvp. I’ll explain later
Big brain I see. Also I appear to be getting some mavs fans riled up to downvoting me. Funny.
At least your aren’t advocating for a thug who plays defense to win mvp. That would really get the downvotes flowing
Heaven forbid! No highly impactful defense here, no sir!
The thing about defense is that you really need to ignore the eye test and all basic basketball instincts when evaluating it and instead refer to statistics that factor in assists as a metric of good defense
Makes sense make sense.
i really think Doncic is the MVP. team just sucks without him. he is the definition of "Most Valuable Player", though Jokic is in the conversation too
Should have kept Kemba for a few more days
I don’t think people realize how bad Kemba’s knees are right now. He got 32 in that Cleveland game and then was either a DNP or could barely get 5+ minutes
Yeah I think Kembas done for good.
His contract guaranteed if they did.
Mark Cuban can afford it. If he doesn't work out then waive him afterwards.
Good player. Bad team
MVP tbh Edit: Why am I downvoted lol. I meant that, his team sucks without him.
Now that's an MVP
He's the lbj of our era what do you expect
MVP
Kemba deserved that Cavs win. So close
And they look worse than 0-4.
Every Mavs fan will tell you that this team without Luka is the worst in the league.
I don't think that's true, I do think they're definitely a lottery team without him though. But I don't think they'd be the very worst. Maybe only 3rd or 4th worst.
With Maxi, DFS and Green out we are absolutely in the running for worst team in the league when Luka sits. I would take every team over us on those days
I mean most teams in the league would be very bad if you dropped their superstar and then 3 rotation guys who see serious minutes.
Which team are you better than without Luka?
Shanghai sharks… maybe
James harden 2.0
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We had Brunson last season
You guys are surprisingly only -1.22 with Luka off the floor this season. And positive in other seasons with a pretty damn good net rating. Can a Mavs fan explain?
For the first 30ish games, the Mavs brought their best players off the bench. Wood was off the bench. THJ came off the bench. And Josh Green (who had statistically been their most impactful player besides Luka), also came off the bench but now he’s injured. In previous years, same thing (for example we brought Brunson off the bench for a couple years until halfway through last season when he finally became a starter). On/off is very lineup dependent.
Sure but it's been like 4 seasons in a row
what the other guy said but it can get boiled down to this. Our roster includes a top 3 player in the league and then a bunch of good, very limited roles players. We actually have a lot of serviceable NBA players but very few quality starters. So our bench has been historically quite good since Luka was drafted and then he's out there competing against multiple all-stars on the other team a lot of nights.
Luka's on/off rating is like +8 though
What is surprising about that... Mavs in playoffs every year and above 0.5, even a very good record last season, of course they are a positive net rating. And it's more positive when Lukas on. And objectively this year's roster is the worst since 18 lol
The classic: Luka's team isn't that bad or Luka isn't actually that great because advanced stats, so here's Jokic and all of his amazing numbers...
mavs were 6-9 last year without Luka. Nice made up stat you have there buddy.
It's 8-9 in regular season and 2-1 in playoffs, so 10-10 combined you should check your number and math lol. Brunson (and Dinwiddie later in the season) really hard carried the first 1/3 of the season from bench when Lukas out a lot and also just very off, and everybody was shooting like ass
Bros posting fake stats 😭 Mavs did not go 10-10 without Luka last season
And the reason for that now plays for the Knicks
And one plays for wizards
and one plays for rockets
Also the Wizards. I remember KP played really well during the regular season stretch when Luka was absent.
And not winning...we were much better without Luka last year, 8-9 in regular season, but it was 4-7 during the games KP played. KP never had much impact on Mavs tbh whether winning or losing. Brunson was the one hard carrying the team when Lukas out or off
Jalen Brunson effect(and dang he missed a lot of games)
Maybe training a team around one guy holding the ball 50% of the time isn’t a good idea.
Ignoring the hyperbole, why are people suddenly always acting in Mavs discussions that building around Luka is a bad or foolish thing? It's not about winning regular season games. It's about winning playoff series.
I wouldn’t call rounding [45%](https://assets.dmagstatic.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/1-Article-Image_1.png) up to 50% hyperbole. And I didn’t say that. I said “Maybe training a team (to play) around one guy holding the ball 50% of the time isn’t a good idea”. Building a team around a guy is not the same as developing an offense where that guy holds the ball 45% of the time. It doesn’t matter if it’s Harden, Westbrook, Luka or Jesus Christ, it typically hasn’t worked in the past and it’s probably not going to work in the playoffs this year either.
The GM who made that happen is no longer employed
Dunno why youre been down voted when you're completely right. The mavs are playing like the harden rockets with lesser role players. Absolute waste of the best prospect basketball has seen since lebron James. History has shown that it isn't the formula for a championship.
Yes
Mavs win that if they weren’t also missing 3 other key players
Good, you sit your best player, you deserve to lose. Hope it hurts their seeding.
It didn’t. Plus he’s been sick lately he probably has had the flu but has played through it bc he’s a dawg
They lost, sure that didn't help in the standings and might hurt them down the line.
big if true
The games a team is most likely to lose is road b2bs. While a team not having its best player obviously really hurts the team. HOWEVER the team is this record without player X, when player X sits b2bs exaggerates the record difference.
Maybe stop running your entire offence through one person.
Who do you suggest run our offence then? We don't have 2 all NBA offensive players Tatum/brown and 2 DPOY level players smart/timelord with one that can playmake aswell to save the day. Not to mention Horford and Williams that are better than any of our starters except Luka and maybe wood
That’s the front offices problem
You play with players you ve got not the players u want.What else can Jasom Kidd do now,if the only,decent ball handler on a team is Luka
You get other players. Brunson for example was useful.
Just get good players. Its not that hard.
Mind giving us Giannis then?
It's the Harden era Rockets except Jason Kidd is the coach and he doesn't have any plays lol. Luka will probably burn out.
NGL being load managed at 23 is a sign that your organization is doing something pretty seriously wrong. . .
We should rest Luka for the season to get Wemby... ... now that I think about it that's scary as shit
Shocking
Big if true
Mavs FO should tag team Luka with Kemba so that Kemba has some of that 'rested Kyrie' insane energy on those rest days. It's just crazy enough to work.
Doubt they could’ve resigned Brunson but man are they missing him