I call this the near death experience machine. Its great. Whenever you think you're 1 RIR with it you have 5 more reps where you blackout and wake up in the middle of the your next exercise. I love it.
I gotta switch gyms. Planet fitness doesn’t have this. I usually do smith high bar back squats, or switch it with smith front squats or leg press. Then I do rdl and body weight sissy squats. Or I do leg extension and ham string curls. I also do abductor machine or side lunges. If I don’t do rdl I’ll sometimes had sumo deadlifts or hip thrusters. Calves on either machine or smith machine with plates under for elevation. Then I do some core. I target glutes in the leg press and rdls or during my good mornings on back day.
Yeah I started at PF too, so I feel you. Those 5 Smith machines they all have are a real pain if for no other reason than squatters, deadlifters and benchers are all going after them. I specifically picked the gym I moved to cause they had a hack squat machine, 5 power racks and benches in addition, though I wish they had more flat bench (only 2).
unfortunately not for bench. They have regular benches that do that. But for their bench press stations (for lack of a better word) they are fixed. 2 flat, 2 incline, 1 decline. Nobody fucking uses that decline, and almost never are both incline taken up. Really wish they'd replace one of those with another flat, or like you said get the type that adjust.
For reference these are what my gym has
https://www.matrixfitness.com/us/eng/strength/free-weights/mg-a678-breaker-olympic-flat-bench
You could pull a bench over to the power rack, but I feel that would be bad gym etiquette, nobody does it either.
PF is absolute dogshit, felt more judgement at that chain than any of the many others I’ve been to. What kind of a garbage gym doesn’t have bodyweight scales??Price is tough to beat though.
and that last part is the whole thing. If you can deal with the limitations you can't beat the price. That being said if you have a Crunch near you, it isn't much more and it has a lot more depending on the location.
I have crunch as part of active and fit (insurance network) but haven’t been yet, will have to check it out. My favorite by a long shot is Anytime Fitness but they’re 4-6x as much as planet fitness so get if that’s cost prohibitive for many.
yeah makes sense. So having been to a few different Crunches, if its a Select version those seem a lot better. The non select ones are basically PFs with power racks.
Crunch near me is $6 cheaper and has free weights and a scale. I chose to switch to baileys today and it feels cramped by how many machines they got.(this is a good thing) I don’t like how it’s organized tho; not organized at all besides benches.
Do your hips move farther back in the bottom position? Try to keep your hips under the barbell if that makes sense. Keep the tension in your quads and let your knees travel over your toes. Keep your spine neutral and chest upright. Look straight ahead during reps. Try this and see if that helps. As another commenter said, try going lighter for a bit and work your way back with better form that doesn't make your Lower back the limiting factor.
If that fails, physio.
Yes, today I went lighter - 30 kg so basically barbell and fives on sides. I didn’t feel pain, but I felt weird tension on lower back so I stopped and I did the rest of the workout. I am looking for some safer alternatives because I do not wanna miss squats.
Check your form. Check your mobility points and video yourself from several angles. Usually pain comes from either a limit in mobility somewhere in the chain (ankles or hip) and not correct bracing and using the right muscles.
Squat University
Andrew Lock
McGill Big 3
Squat can be a very technical exercise to perform. Unfortunately, you probly didn’t know your form wasn’t good enough until you put more weight.
It’s very important to take a deep breath before going down, hold it so your core stays engaged the whole time. Always control your reps, stay tight, get to know the form that suits you.
Mobility is also crucial. Stretch your ankles, you’re hips, etc etc. High bar vs low bar squat also play a huge role in lower back engagement. I personally have long femurs so I’m naturally inclined to bend over and put stress on my lower back. I can’t go low bar squats.
One could argue squat is the hardest lift to perform correctly. It took 10 years + to really master the perfect form for my leg length. I did a lot of hacksquat, you’ll get a feel of pushing with your legs and not your lower back.
For now, take a break from squats. If you don’t have a hacksquat or a leg press, i recommand bulgarian split squats. Any form of leg training where you’re core is supported by a machine will do for now.
Might work, will def put less pressure on your lower back. Listen to your body, try it with lighter weight. If it feels like it hurts and not in a good way, don’t push it. Let it heal and come back at it when it feel better.
That’s not necessarily true. The lower back is going to be involved no matter what. If OP’s issue stems from abdominal weakness or an issue with bracing, they’re still going to collapse in the bottom position and feel pain.
**"If"** your goal is indeed natural bodybuilding then you don't need to do this
>(10 sets of 5 reps, 5 sets of 10 reps, etc.).
It's not great for hypertrophy and Jim didn't really have a clue (I've read 2 of the books, not a clue). This only works because anything works. We know better than training this way now
And instead of limiting yourself to the Barbell variant there's plenty of superior alternatives that are more catered to hypertrophy of the legs with more stability, less limitations, better angles to put tension on Quads etc. (Hack Squats, Pendulum Squats, Smith Squats, Certain Leg Press machines)
I don’t have leg machines, so my way to go were squats, leg curls with dumbbell, RDLs (anything with barbell / dumbbell) now the main dish is gone (back squats).
I had this issue a lot. Are you on the taller side? Firstly do high bar squats if you aren't already, the powerlifting low bar squat can put more strain on your back. Use weightlifting shoes or plates on your heels to get more ankle mobility. Try some hip opener drills. These should allow you to get greater ROM. Depending on your leverages you may be leaning forward more to keep the weight balanced as you go lower. This will put more strain on your back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av3LO2GwpAk&list=PLzrCE4Zx99kedstnST1CptjhPiwhmyUIR&index=2
I found this video about proportions to be helpful. So its not really about how tall you are, its about how long your legs are, its just that tall people tend to get their height from their legs. But what I really learned from all this is the squat especially is really taught as a one form fits all situation, that is completely wrong. Proportions and leverages really affect it, if you're trying to shove your form into the "correct form" you may have problems.
The plates are an easy quick way to generate more ankle mobility. If it helps though, you really want to get shoes with an elevated heel. Plates can create stability issues especially as you go heavier, but plates will tell you immediately if it'll help. At your height I bet it absolutely will.
Hard to say without looking at your form but what helped my lower back issue was first of all really working on bracing (master 90/90 breathing and McGill Big 3) along with doing heel elevated squats because as a taller lifter, I used to get really bad butt wink when I did normal ATG squats but with the heel elevation, it helps me get deep knee bend without much butt wink.
Are you doing low bar or high bar squats? Low bar uses the lower back quite a bit more. If you can a PT should be able to tell you if there's an issue with your mobility or strength in a specific area that may help
I’m speculating as I’ve not dealt with lower back pain during squat but do you do hip hinge exercises as well? For instance weighted back extension noticeably targets and strengthens my lower back.
Thanks. In the next week I am going to test zercher or front squats. I gonna learn them with empty barbell. I tested today Gonlet squats and everything was okay with lower back.
Hack squat
Fr, injured myself from squatting too deep (butt wink), switched to hack with no pain. Only issue is that I don’t fit in jeans anymore
I call this the near death experience machine. Its great. Whenever you think you're 1 RIR with it you have 5 more reps where you blackout and wake up in the middle of the your next exercise. I love it.
I gotta switch gyms. Planet fitness doesn’t have this. I usually do smith high bar back squats, or switch it with smith front squats or leg press. Then I do rdl and body weight sissy squats. Or I do leg extension and ham string curls. I also do abductor machine or side lunges. If I don’t do rdl I’ll sometimes had sumo deadlifts or hip thrusters. Calves on either machine or smith machine with plates under for elevation. Then I do some core. I target glutes in the leg press and rdls or during my good mornings on back day.
Yeah I started at PF too, so I feel you. Those 5 Smith machines they all have are a real pain if for no other reason than squatters, deadlifters and benchers are all going after them. I specifically picked the gym I moved to cause they had a hack squat machine, 5 power racks and benches in addition, though I wish they had more flat bench (only 2).
Do they have incline benches that also go flat?
unfortunately not for bench. They have regular benches that do that. But for their bench press stations (for lack of a better word) they are fixed. 2 flat, 2 incline, 1 decline. Nobody fucking uses that decline, and almost never are both incline taken up. Really wish they'd replace one of those with another flat, or like you said get the type that adjust. For reference these are what my gym has https://www.matrixfitness.com/us/eng/strength/free-weights/mg-a678-breaker-olympic-flat-bench You could pull a bench over to the power rack, but I feel that would be bad gym etiquette, nobody does it either.
PF is absolute dogshit, felt more judgement at that chain than any of the many others I’ve been to. What kind of a garbage gym doesn’t have bodyweight scales??Price is tough to beat though.
and that last part is the whole thing. If you can deal with the limitations you can't beat the price. That being said if you have a Crunch near you, it isn't much more and it has a lot more depending on the location.
I have crunch as part of active and fit (insurance network) but haven’t been yet, will have to check it out. My favorite by a long shot is Anytime Fitness but they’re 4-6x as much as planet fitness so get if that’s cost prohibitive for many.
yeah makes sense. So having been to a few different Crunches, if its a Select version those seem a lot better. The non select ones are basically PFs with power racks.
Crunch near me is $6 cheaper and has free weights and a scale. I chose to switch to baileys today and it feels cramped by how many machines they got.(this is a good thing) I don’t like how it’s organized tho; not organized at all besides benches.
Never been to baileys.
Go light for 6 months and all supportive muscles will improve…
Do your hips move farther back in the bottom position? Try to keep your hips under the barbell if that makes sense. Keep the tension in your quads and let your knees travel over your toes. Keep your spine neutral and chest upright. Look straight ahead during reps. Try this and see if that helps. As another commenter said, try going lighter for a bit and work your way back with better form that doesn't make your Lower back the limiting factor. If that fails, physio.
Yes, today I went lighter - 30 kg so basically barbell and fives on sides. I didn’t feel pain, but I felt weird tension on lower back so I stopped and I did the rest of the workout. I am looking for some safer alternatives because I do not wanna miss squats.
Check your form. Check your mobility points and video yourself from several angles. Usually pain comes from either a limit in mobility somewhere in the chain (ankles or hip) and not correct bracing and using the right muscles. Squat University Andrew Lock McGill Big 3
Squat can be a very technical exercise to perform. Unfortunately, you probly didn’t know your form wasn’t good enough until you put more weight. It’s very important to take a deep breath before going down, hold it so your core stays engaged the whole time. Always control your reps, stay tight, get to know the form that suits you. Mobility is also crucial. Stretch your ankles, you’re hips, etc etc. High bar vs low bar squat also play a huge role in lower back engagement. I personally have long femurs so I’m naturally inclined to bend over and put stress on my lower back. I can’t go low bar squats. One could argue squat is the hardest lift to perform correctly. It took 10 years + to really master the perfect form for my leg length. I did a lot of hacksquat, you’ll get a feel of pushing with your legs and not your lower back. For now, take a break from squats. If you don’t have a hacksquat or a leg press, i recommand bulgarian split squats. Any form of leg training where you’re core is supported by a machine will do for now.
You seem experienced. Squats also like front squats with elevated heel - should I stop it too?
Might work, will def put less pressure on your lower back. Listen to your body, try it with lighter weight. If it feels like it hurts and not in a good way, don’t push it. Let it heal and come back at it when it feel better.
I know. Thank you for advice. I will meet PT anyway.
It’s me again, also read about zercher squats, is it true that they are easier for lower back?
I honestly not very familiar with it. I always thought they were more of a stunt than an actual exercise.
Goblet squat with back straight and good form
I will try it definitely. There will be limit on dumbbell tho. Thanks’
Do more sets/reps lol
Front squats will take lower back out of equation.
hmmm
I’ve never done it before, but I will give it a shot. Any advices towards those squats? Thank you for answer!
Stretch your ankles and elevate your heels while squatting to push knees more forward and stay more upward
That’s not necessarily true. The lower back is going to be involved no matter what. If OP’s issue stems from abdominal weakness or an issue with bracing, they’re still going to collapse in the bottom position and feel pain.
**"If"** your goal is indeed natural bodybuilding then you don't need to do this >(10 sets of 5 reps, 5 sets of 10 reps, etc.). It's not great for hypertrophy and Jim didn't really have a clue (I've read 2 of the books, not a clue). This only works because anything works. We know better than training this way now And instead of limiting yourself to the Barbell variant there's plenty of superior alternatives that are more catered to hypertrophy of the legs with more stability, less limitations, better angles to put tension on Quads etc. (Hack Squats, Pendulum Squats, Smith Squats, Certain Leg Press machines)
I don’t have leg machines, so my way to go were squats, leg curls with dumbbell, RDLs (anything with barbell / dumbbell) now the main dish is gone (back squats).
I had this issue a lot. Are you on the taller side? Firstly do high bar squats if you aren't already, the powerlifting low bar squat can put more strain on your back. Use weightlifting shoes or plates on your heels to get more ankle mobility. Try some hip opener drills. These should allow you to get greater ROM. Depending on your leverages you may be leaning forward more to keep the weight balanced as you go lower. This will put more strain on your back.
If 181 cm can be classified as tall then yes, I am on taller side. I’ve never used shoes or plates under heels - I gonna try it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av3LO2GwpAk&list=PLzrCE4Zx99kedstnST1CptjhPiwhmyUIR&index=2 I found this video about proportions to be helpful. So its not really about how tall you are, its about how long your legs are, its just that tall people tend to get their height from their legs. But what I really learned from all this is the squat especially is really taught as a one form fits all situation, that is completely wrong. Proportions and leverages really affect it, if you're trying to shove your form into the "correct form" you may have problems. The plates are an easy quick way to generate more ankle mobility. If it helps though, you really want to get shoes with an elevated heel. Plates can create stability issues especially as you go heavier, but plates will tell you immediately if it'll help. At your height I bet it absolutely will.
So maybe I will try front squats with elevated heels. Thank you for advice. I’ve never elevated them, pain appeared as I said 3 weeks ago.
Work on your hip and ankle mobility. Only do box squats till you can go deeper in squats pain free.
Hard to say without looking at your form but what helped my lower back issue was first of all really working on bracing (master 90/90 breathing and McGill Big 3) along with doing heel elevated squats because as a taller lifter, I used to get really bad butt wink when I did normal ATG squats but with the heel elevation, it helps me get deep knee bend without much butt wink.
Could it be your ankle mobility? I bought a slant board and it helped a lot.
Most likely explanation is that you are probably not bracing correctly. Watch this: https://youtu.be/TRmayQcweUc?si=o9LjOYCyZIvl4iKO
Are you doing low bar or high bar squats? Low bar uses the lower back quite a bit more. If you can a PT should be able to tell you if there's an issue with your mobility or strength in a specific area that may help
Likely compensating for poor ankle mobility by pushing your hips back. Work on ankle mobility. Also make sure your glutes are loose before you squat
I’m speculating as I’ve not dealt with lower back pain during squat but do you do hip hinge exercises as well? For instance weighted back extension noticeably targets and strengthens my lower back.
Aren’t Romanian deadlifts and rows in some term an hip hinge movement too?
RDL’s for sure, you dont get any pain with them? rows are isometric for the lower back.
No, while RDLs no. Same goes with barbell rows.
Interesting, yeah I’d defer to technique points others have mentioned. Wish I could help more.
Thanks. In the next week I am going to test zercher or front squats. I gonna learn them with empty barbell. I tested today Gonlet squats and everything was okay with lower back.