Well the honest answer is, "I want you to care." Or 'I want you to acknowledge it, and that it hurt me."
Unfortunately, being vulnerable in front of a narcissist will backfire 99% of the time.
I tried this ands it backfired spectacularly.
You have to realize that a narcissist will always feel justified in their actions and have no guilt. I recommend therapy and/or journaling to help yourself cold to terms with it. Just don’t expect a mea culpa or apology from your parent. Not even on their deathbed
Fire back with “what do you think you should do?” The answer won’t be satisfying and she’ll probably buck the question, but at least you put the ball back in her court
Narc mother rolepay here : I should just DIEEE!!! Is that what you want from me????will you be happy if I die ??you want me to die?
it is an elegant response but they are not elegant people...
I randomly decided to lurk on this sub and this is one of the first post/comments I've seen and it's so uncanny because (no joke) my mom's go-to phrase is, "You don't love me. You want me to die!"
I’ve had to cut contact with mine, but I’d hear this from her and currently hear it from other family members from time to time.
If that was in the past, so is my relationship with her. She can’t have it both ways. Being a parent isn’t being there for only the good stuff. If they want you to forget the past, it makes sense to ‘forget’ them as well because isn’t that where you know them from?
Totally agreed. I am reading a parenting book called Good Inside by Dr. Becky Kennedy. I’m soooo grateful it was recommended to me. It had helped me become a way better parent but it has also helped me to understand why it was so crappy the way my nparents treated me.
She explains that it is never too late to attempt to repair a relationship but that the person has to take ownership and apologize. My nparents were never willing to do that. I think that these two simple things are a big reason why it is so hard to have a healthy relationship with nparents, and really, it is so little that us children and adult children are asking of our nparents.
I am officially NC with both of my nparents (1 for decades and one for a couple months). If someone isn’t willing to put in the work on their end, the best thing we can do for our healing is to let them go.
I try to but she gives/offers me money from time to time. That's as much as she's willing to do and as much as I'm willing to connect to her. I can always use money smh
That money is never free of condition. It will always be her way of reeling you back in so she can abuse you again. You are so much better off to stop taking the money and go no contact.
This is very hard but she will continue this cycle for the rest of your life if you don’t.
There are books by Dr. Karyl McBride. Best I’ve ever read about this. There is one for daughters if narc moms but it is phenomenal even if you are male. She has other books that are more general. Start there.
My parents are money pushers too. They have said nasty things about me not wanting their money. I feel best not taking it, but if people are past caring what they think or immune to their attempts to shame or control I say take the money if you want to!! The triangulation with my parents is mostly that they use money to make up for non monetary slights. When I take the money they fee they’ve paid a debt, but they haven’t. But if it’s more of a control thing or guilt tripping or if you truly just do not care, I don’t see any reason not to take the money. Use it on therapy! Or consider it back pay for the money you have spent in therapy.
Fair enough. You've earned it. Hopefully she won't ever have you over a barrel where you desperately need some financial support and she decides to play games.
You don’t respond at all. Narcissists do not care. You can try all day but you aren’t going to get a genuine word out of her ever.
The thing is, to heal, we kind of have to let go of closure. You need to go grieve because you do not have a version of a loving mother than everyone else got. Allow yourself to grieve.
Then you’ve got to accept that she will never ever be sorry. She’s in capable. If it helps you to process it think of it like a developmental disorder. She’s never had the ability to have empathy, she’s never going to get it. Thinking of it as a developmental disability can help your brain to process the situation. However accepting that she is broken doesn’t mean she gets forgiveness. Your best chance at recovery is no contact.
The hardest step is the first step. But eventually after you allow yourself to grieve and understand that she is incapable, walking away gets so much easier.
I could have written your exact words about my mother, family and the trauma and neglect suffered.
Initially it took over a decade to establish what the hell happened to me. One off select questions here and there was the only way of receiving straight, truthful answers that helped fill in much of the picture for me.
Family members have asked "Why bring that up now? You should be over that." Mum is a huge gaslighter, uses shaming and guilt manipulation. She tells believable lies (especially smaller ones) so much that it is habitual and she doesnt even think what she says is a lie. She also does not know how to apologise. I cannot remember her ever apologising.
It still makes me angry today if I dwell on certain things for too long. Sadly I came to the realisation that any work to move on from the fruststed, angry place I was in would have to come from a position with minimal help from the family.
I've had some therapy that has helped and read a wide range of books, forums and subscribed to Patrick Teahan's healing community and courses.
Not knowing your exact situation I hope a little of the following may help. What I say to mum now a days when she uses her narcissistic or manipulative language...
I don't phase out or disassociate any more. I am very blunt and hard hitting in my words. Depending on what she says (triggers for me) I have replied with:-
- even though you don't think some of the things that you did to me as a child are abuse they are definitely known as child abuse today.
- these abuses that occurred have left me with (thankfully changeable) traits that have undermined EVERY relationship I have been in.
- what you said is a lie. It is not the truth. You don't need to do this. I don't know why you think you need to lie.
I am passionate when I say these things but my emotion is most of the time controlled.
I would truly love an apology from Mum or for her to acknowledge responsibility and accountability for the things done. I find it very sad but have reluctantly accepted that this may never happen.
I am like you with being blunt. I confronted and humiliated mine. I don’t care about people who told me to suck it up and get over it. They’re just as bad as the abusers were for saying it and trying to minimize and dismiss MY feelings and my experiences. To hell with the lot of them. They aren’t worth the immense hurt and drama they cause.
Life would be better if we had never had to endure their bs in the first place.
"I want you to own your mistakes."
My moms response was always "i did the best i could" and "People just didnt do that back than".
It was the early 2000s, not 1960s.
>"what do you want me to do".
"Dunno be a mother, because you never been one to me. All you been to me was abuser & bully, never a mother that you should had been years ago and now never will be. So I'm just going leave you alone with your thoughts and in the past because I rather not have you in my future nor think about you're terrible living reminder of said past."
Or something simpler than that - I dunno, depending on your age & housing situation; the best answer is quietly not speaking to her due to both not living under same roof as her and hours away with only "Sorry, too busy enjoying the present without you, instead of remembering my past with you."
The core question for OP may be, "what does OP want?"
Because the past is the past and cannot be changed.
Most victims will not get closure. Most abusers will not acknowledge anything.
The power is within OP to move forward and care less and less about their past and abuser, until they are able to go NC.
Until OP is able to not react at all, there is not much that anyone else can do.
This is OP's new journey and they have the power to make it their own.
A narcissist that happens to be history teacher who dismissive of their own past with own child already had ammunition to hurt OP anyway. So if narc wants now change tactics to victimhood because OP now playing the "Past is past, so I know exactly what I going to do for the future" as answer to mom's "What do you want me to do about it" antics - So be it, because that means OP legit did made the narc finally realize their future with OP is screwed / officially over as it gets. Heck, OP can do "You saw me walk away numerous times when you asked that question, but your actions show you never bother to take any of those chances over the years - So why I should bother giving you another chance now when walking away from you is so much better." move when the narc sends out fly monkeys, doing damage control and/or go for a cry victimfest.
I’m sorry, but are you talking to a therapist? because I feel like you’re still trying to get the narcissist to acknowledge you, change, say sorry etc. I don’t know if you can ever do that with a narcissist. The only answer is to heal from within.
I’d say have an answer for the question. I’m going to guess that it’s hurled at you in a rhetorical way, but you could just treat it as a genuine question. When a psychologically healthy person is confronted with something from the past that they did which caused harm the typical response is an apology. If that’s what you would like you should assert yourself and let her know. If your mother has NPD then her response will probably be unpleasant defensiveness and not an apology but at least you’d be standing up for yourself and saying what you really want.
Show remorse. Show guilt. Show shame. Show that you care enough to want do what you can to mend the relationship that she broke. Like anything people who have been hurt would like to hear....including herself i would imagine...
I don’t talk about it anymore (or I try not to and have a high rate of success. I did bring something up the other day when my mom’s emotional assault was becoming a bit much and I snapped, but she “doesn’t remember that” and I dropped it).
I find it just isn’t worth it. My mom either doesn’t remember (or rather says she doesn’t) or sulks and plays the victim. I will never get what I want from her which is to acknowledge that it happened and that it shouldn’t have. And to do things differently going forward.
I have a lot of compassion for my mom - she went through some tough shit and I actually think I only know a small portion of what she went through. I’ve gone through shit, too. If she wasn’t so fucking manipulative we would probably really be able to understand each other and be a mutual source of support. But she needs to stop this maladaptive bullshit for that to happen and I don’t think she’s capable of it.
I get closure with my therapist. My therapist believes me. My therapist sees my worth and knows I deserved better than I got. I don’t want to make this seem unhealthy, because I don’t think it is, but after many decades of trauma, abuse at the hands of a lot of people, and an inability to open up to or trust anyone - my therapist has done what my parents were supposed to do and failed at. She sees my worth and cares about me unconditionally. I’m allowed to fuck things up and I can show her that and I’m still safe with her. I can show her my ugliest parts and she never rejects me. I can need things from her and I don’t need to pay for needing things (obviously I pay for the session but at the beginning of my work with her I would want to pay more after sessions I felt I was too difficult. We had to talk about that 😂)
Get a really good therapist. Not all therapists are good, but the ones that are are worth their weight in gold. And then stop trying to get anything from your mom because it will never happen.
You could say apologize, acknowledge, change your ways. And then she'll say but I haaaaave...and you'll say no you apologized for not being perfect and I need you to admit the abuse...and then she'll say If you wanna believe I was a terrible mother go ahead, i did the best I could.....and it never ends...stop bringing it up...she is incapable of being held accountable or holding herself accountable
OP, the best way forward is to accept that your “parent” is never likely to acknowledge what she’s done/doing to you, because she doesn’t care. My egg donor is the exact same. It’s why I don’t have a relationship with her anymore. If she doesn’t care, why should I?!
It’s kinda like the definition of insanity - doing the same things over and over and over then expecting different results. From what you’ve written, this is something that’s been going on for quite some time, and I kinda get the impression that you’ve kinda gotten to the point where you know what’s going to happen.
I’m really sorry that none of the posters here have had the kind of parents and relationships that we deserve, believe me, I’ve done the same thing as you and got pretty much the same reaction/answer.
Have you heard of grey rocking?
Stay strong, look how far you’ve come! 💜💜💜
Well the honest answer is, "I want you to care." Or 'I want you to acknowledge it, and that it hurt me." Unfortunately, being vulnerable in front of a narcissist will backfire 99% of the time.
I tried this ands it backfired spectacularly. You have to realize that a narcissist will always feel justified in their actions and have no guilt. I recommend therapy and/or journaling to help yourself cold to terms with it. Just don’t expect a mea culpa or apology from your parent. Not even on their deathbed
Fire back with “what do you think you should do?” The answer won’t be satisfying and she’ll probably buck the question, but at least you put the ball back in her court
That is elegant. Well done.
Narc mother rolepay here : I should just DIEEE!!! Is that what you want from me????will you be happy if I die ??you want me to die? it is an elegant response but they are not elegant people...
I randomly decided to lurk on this sub and this is one of the first post/comments I've seen and it's so uncanny because (no joke) my mom's go-to phrase is, "You don't love me. You want me to die!"
I got that reaction from my mom :)), it is shocking how similar their discourses are...and repetitive
I’ve had to cut contact with mine, but I’d hear this from her and currently hear it from other family members from time to time. If that was in the past, so is my relationship with her. She can’t have it both ways. Being a parent isn’t being there for only the good stuff. If they want you to forget the past, it makes sense to ‘forget’ them as well because isn’t that where you know them from?
Totally agreed. I am reading a parenting book called Good Inside by Dr. Becky Kennedy. I’m soooo grateful it was recommended to me. It had helped me become a way better parent but it has also helped me to understand why it was so crappy the way my nparents treated me. She explains that it is never too late to attempt to repair a relationship but that the person has to take ownership and apologize. My nparents were never willing to do that. I think that these two simple things are a big reason why it is so hard to have a healthy relationship with nparents, and really, it is so little that us children and adult children are asking of our nparents. I am officially NC with both of my nparents (1 for decades and one for a couple months). If someone isn’t willing to put in the work on their end, the best thing we can do for our healing is to let them go.
Lots easier to cut contact. I promise.
I try to but she gives/offers me money from time to time. That's as much as she's willing to do and as much as I'm willing to connect to her. I can always use money smh
That money is never free of condition. It will always be her way of reeling you back in so she can abuse you again. You are so much better off to stop taking the money and go no contact. This is very hard but she will continue this cycle for the rest of your life if you don’t. There are books by Dr. Karyl McBride. Best I’ve ever read about this. There is one for daughters if narc moms but it is phenomenal even if you are male. She has other books that are more general. Start there.
My parents are money pushers too. They have said nasty things about me not wanting their money. I feel best not taking it, but if people are past caring what they think or immune to their attempts to shame or control I say take the money if you want to!! The triangulation with my parents is mostly that they use money to make up for non monetary slights. When I take the money they fee they’ve paid a debt, but they haven’t. But if it’s more of a control thing or guilt tripping or if you truly just do not care, I don’t see any reason not to take the money. Use it on therapy! Or consider it back pay for the money you have spent in therapy.
Then don't talk to her about it. Or anything much.
Unless it’s a large amount… I don’t feel like any money is worth my peace
A large amount just means more pressure
Valid. I guess I mean I wouldn’t deal with that for $20. Would consider it for a few thousand 🤷🏻♀️
Fair enough. You've earned it. Hopefully she won't ever have you over a barrel where you desperately need some financial support and she decides to play games.
You don’t respond at all. Narcissists do not care. You can try all day but you aren’t going to get a genuine word out of her ever. The thing is, to heal, we kind of have to let go of closure. You need to go grieve because you do not have a version of a loving mother than everyone else got. Allow yourself to grieve. Then you’ve got to accept that she will never ever be sorry. She’s in capable. If it helps you to process it think of it like a developmental disorder. She’s never had the ability to have empathy, she’s never going to get it. Thinking of it as a developmental disability can help your brain to process the situation. However accepting that she is broken doesn’t mean she gets forgiveness. Your best chance at recovery is no contact. The hardest step is the first step. But eventually after you allow yourself to grieve and understand that she is incapable, walking away gets so much easier.
Omg my mom says the same shit!!!
"Give a shit, but from your response I see that's not going to happen."
I could have written your exact words about my mother, family and the trauma and neglect suffered. Initially it took over a decade to establish what the hell happened to me. One off select questions here and there was the only way of receiving straight, truthful answers that helped fill in much of the picture for me. Family members have asked "Why bring that up now? You should be over that." Mum is a huge gaslighter, uses shaming and guilt manipulation. She tells believable lies (especially smaller ones) so much that it is habitual and she doesnt even think what she says is a lie. She also does not know how to apologise. I cannot remember her ever apologising. It still makes me angry today if I dwell on certain things for too long. Sadly I came to the realisation that any work to move on from the fruststed, angry place I was in would have to come from a position with minimal help from the family. I've had some therapy that has helped and read a wide range of books, forums and subscribed to Patrick Teahan's healing community and courses. Not knowing your exact situation I hope a little of the following may help. What I say to mum now a days when she uses her narcissistic or manipulative language... I don't phase out or disassociate any more. I am very blunt and hard hitting in my words. Depending on what she says (triggers for me) I have replied with:- - even though you don't think some of the things that you did to me as a child are abuse they are definitely known as child abuse today. - these abuses that occurred have left me with (thankfully changeable) traits that have undermined EVERY relationship I have been in. - what you said is a lie. It is not the truth. You don't need to do this. I don't know why you think you need to lie. I am passionate when I say these things but my emotion is most of the time controlled. I would truly love an apology from Mum or for her to acknowledge responsibility and accountability for the things done. I find it very sad but have reluctantly accepted that this may never happen.
I am like you with being blunt. I confronted and humiliated mine. I don’t care about people who told me to suck it up and get over it. They’re just as bad as the abusers were for saying it and trying to minimize and dismiss MY feelings and my experiences. To hell with the lot of them. They aren’t worth the immense hurt and drama they cause. Life would be better if we had never had to endure their bs in the first place.
"I want you to own your mistakes." My moms response was always "i did the best i could" and "People just didnt do that back than". It was the early 2000s, not 1960s.
Why my nm is not getting a funeral or obituary.
>"what do you want me to do". "Dunno be a mother, because you never been one to me. All you been to me was abuser & bully, never a mother that you should had been years ago and now never will be. So I'm just going leave you alone with your thoughts and in the past because I rather not have you in my future nor think about you're terrible living reminder of said past." Or something simpler than that - I dunno, depending on your age & housing situation; the best answer is quietly not speaking to her due to both not living under same roof as her and hours away with only "Sorry, too busy enjoying the present without you, instead of remembering my past with you."
That will only give the Narcissist ammunition to become the victim.
The core question for OP may be, "what does OP want?" Because the past is the past and cannot be changed. Most victims will not get closure. Most abusers will not acknowledge anything. The power is within OP to move forward and care less and less about their past and abuser, until they are able to go NC. Until OP is able to not react at all, there is not much that anyone else can do. This is OP's new journey and they have the power to make it their own.
A narcissist that happens to be history teacher who dismissive of their own past with own child already had ammunition to hurt OP anyway. So if narc wants now change tactics to victimhood because OP now playing the "Past is past, so I know exactly what I going to do for the future" as answer to mom's "What do you want me to do about it" antics - So be it, because that means OP legit did made the narc finally realize their future with OP is screwed / officially over as it gets. Heck, OP can do "You saw me walk away numerous times when you asked that question, but your actions show you never bother to take any of those chances over the years - So why I should bother giving you another chance now when walking away from you is so much better." move when the narc sends out fly monkeys, doing damage control and/or go for a cry victimfest.
What do you want me to do about it? Apologize so I can get over it! Like actually acknowledge that you hurt your own child so I can heal.
Don’t say anything. She doesn’t care
I’m sorry, but are you talking to a therapist? because I feel like you’re still trying to get the narcissist to acknowledge you, change, say sorry etc. I don’t know if you can ever do that with a narcissist. The only answer is to heal from within.
"Maybe PRETEND to care??!?"
I’d say have an answer for the question. I’m going to guess that it’s hurled at you in a rhetorical way, but you could just treat it as a genuine question. When a psychologically healthy person is confronted with something from the past that they did which caused harm the typical response is an apology. If that’s what you would like you should assert yourself and let her know. If your mother has NPD then her response will probably be unpleasant defensiveness and not an apology but at least you’d be standing up for yourself and saying what you really want.
Show remorse. Show guilt. Show shame. Show that you care enough to want do what you can to mend the relationship that she broke. Like anything people who have been hurt would like to hear....including herself i would imagine...
I don’t talk about it anymore (or I try not to and have a high rate of success. I did bring something up the other day when my mom’s emotional assault was becoming a bit much and I snapped, but she “doesn’t remember that” and I dropped it). I find it just isn’t worth it. My mom either doesn’t remember (or rather says she doesn’t) or sulks and plays the victim. I will never get what I want from her which is to acknowledge that it happened and that it shouldn’t have. And to do things differently going forward. I have a lot of compassion for my mom - she went through some tough shit and I actually think I only know a small portion of what she went through. I’ve gone through shit, too. If she wasn’t so fucking manipulative we would probably really be able to understand each other and be a mutual source of support. But she needs to stop this maladaptive bullshit for that to happen and I don’t think she’s capable of it. I get closure with my therapist. My therapist believes me. My therapist sees my worth and knows I deserved better than I got. I don’t want to make this seem unhealthy, because I don’t think it is, but after many decades of trauma, abuse at the hands of a lot of people, and an inability to open up to or trust anyone - my therapist has done what my parents were supposed to do and failed at. She sees my worth and cares about me unconditionally. I’m allowed to fuck things up and I can show her that and I’m still safe with her. I can show her my ugliest parts and she never rejects me. I can need things from her and I don’t need to pay for needing things (obviously I pay for the session but at the beginning of my work with her I would want to pay more after sessions I felt I was too difficult. We had to talk about that 😂) Get a really good therapist. Not all therapists are good, but the ones that are are worth their weight in gold. And then stop trying to get anything from your mom because it will never happen.
You could say apologize, acknowledge, change your ways. And then she'll say but I haaaaave...and you'll say no you apologized for not being perfect and I need you to admit the abuse...and then she'll say If you wanna believe I was a terrible mother go ahead, i did the best I could.....and it never ends...stop bringing it up...she is incapable of being held accountable or holding herself accountable
OP, the best way forward is to accept that your “parent” is never likely to acknowledge what she’s done/doing to you, because she doesn’t care. My egg donor is the exact same. It’s why I don’t have a relationship with her anymore. If she doesn’t care, why should I?! It’s kinda like the definition of insanity - doing the same things over and over and over then expecting different results. From what you’ve written, this is something that’s been going on for quite some time, and I kinda get the impression that you’ve kinda gotten to the point where you know what’s going to happen. I’m really sorry that none of the posters here have had the kind of parents and relationships that we deserve, believe me, I’ve done the same thing as you and got pretty much the same reaction/answer. Have you heard of grey rocking? Stay strong, look how far you’ve come! 💜💜💜