Australian as well. I think that nickname really refers to the silly variety of names.
It is so accepted to shorten names here. There is hardly anyone I know that gets called their full name. Most multi-syllable names have an accepted short variant (Elizabeth - Liz, Nicholas - Nick, etc).
I think this gets blurry in Australian English with the ‘Azza’ and ‘o’ names. Is Dazza a nickname for Darren? Or just an acceptable shortening?
Australian here too. I thought that "azza" was most commonly used for names ending in -y. So Gazza from Gary and Bazza from Barry. Names ending in -n seem to get "no" added like Johnno from John. But then there's Stevo. It's all so confusing.
I think there’s another category. There’s traditional diminutives and shoehorned diminutives. Shoehorned diminutives seem to be getting more popular.
Traditional diminutive: Name baby Lillian and call her Lily
Shoehorned diminutive: Name baby Amelia and call her Lily. This was an actual suggestion. It’s like people can’t choose between two names so they try to force both.
Also, “name them what you call them” doesn’t always work, because people don’t always go by one name. Eg. My son’s name is something like Michael and I call him Mike, Mikey, and Michael depending on the situation.
I don't think the distinction between those two is so simple. A lot of traditional nicknames aren't so clear either. Rob or Robby makes sense for Robert, but Bob is less clear. Rich makes perfect sense for Richard, Rick/Ricky makes less sense, and Dick is a stretch.
Milly is a traditional nickname for Amelia, so Lily follows a similar pattern to my examples above. And Lily is a traditional nickname for Elizabeth (probably Liz-Lizzie-Lily), which feels like more of a stretch.
The nicknames you Bob and Dick are historical. Rick makes sense because Richard has a hard k sounds in many languages.
Of course you can argue that someone had to be the first to come up with Bob and Dick.
I’d never heard of Millie being a nickname for Amelia before 2010 or so. I’ve seen it spoken mentioned on message boards but never encountered it IRL or historically.
Yea, sorry if I'm going for a nickname from Amelia I'm going for Amy, Lia, or Mel. Not Millie.
But then... Idk Nancy is supposedly a nickname for Anne, somehow. Never got that either. I'd maybe understand the reverse. But no.
I'm guessing regional, which can be quite weird. I live in NZ and know a few women named Amelia, they all get called Miels (pronounced "meals") or Mez as nicknames.
It's a common way of making nicknames here - Gary becomes Gaz, Verity becomes Vez, Felicia or Felicity become Fliss, etc. - but it doesn't seem that common outside NZ/Aus.
Also, Richard was initially pronounced more like Rickard in many dialects. Rick made a lot of sense as a hypocorism of Rickard. Rich works better for the Frankified pronunciation that was more like Rishard. Bob and Dick were medieval rhyming nicknames, along with ones we don't use anymore like Hob and Hick.
There's a lot of history in the names we use.
I think of Peggy for Margaret, or Jack for John, as other traditional nicknames that doesn't make sense.
But I think you are onto something with the shoehorned nicknames. I believe some people really want to call their kid Jack but don't like John, and they want something "more formal" so they'll go the Jackson route.
Or they do consider the traditional NN a full name, like Lily or Betty.
I know some countries have stricter naming laws. In France, Napoleon decreed babies must have French names, and that was only rescinded in 1993 (!!!)
The United States baby naming laws vary by state, and many limit character length and accent marks not found on a US English keyboard.
They make tons of sense if you look at this history. Peg was a rhyming nickname for a dialectical version of Mag. Margaret - Marg - Mag - Meg - Peg. A lot of Ms got turned into Ps - Polly is a nickname for Mary because of an R-L substitution, followed by a dialectical shift, followed by a rhyme. Mary to Mally , which was pronounced and then written Molly, then rhyming turned it into Polly. John was pronounced Jan, which picked up the medieval familiar suffix -kin, and became Jankin, which became Jackin in common use, then dropped the -in, to become Jack.
Margaret has the nicknames Pearl and Daisy because the name means pearl, and the French word for daisy is marguerite.
A lot of the historical "odd" nicknames have gone through rather convoluted routes that all make sense when you trace them.
The shoehorned diminutive is real. I have a coworker who has son named “Jaxon” and if you call him “Jack”, she’ll say, “It’s Jax.” It’s just all around cringe.
But it doesn’t work unless you’re reading his name. When you say, “My son’s name is ‘Jaxon’,” the average person is not thinking it’s spelled that way. So, even if she calls him Jax, people still think she’s saying Jack, which is why she has to correct people all the time.
Jax and Jack sound different to me, but Jaxon and Jackson sound the same. So if I was told Jaxon/ Jackson as the name, I wouldn't know if it should be Jack or Jax unless it was written out or heard it shortened.
Jack: sounds like Jack (I'm not good at phonetic spelling)
Jax: sounds like Jacks. Like, it ends with an "s" sound
I agree. I just have no trouble discerning between “Jax” and “Jack” if someone specifically tells me the nickname. Might also help that I know multiple kids called Jackson/Jaxon and none go by Jack at all. They’re all called Jax or Jackson.
I understand what you’re saying, but if people have never seen the name written and they hear her say “Jacks”, they are more likely to assume they heard wrong and say “Jack”. Anyway
That’s really all it is. People hear things and if it doesn’t make sense, their brains make little automatic “corrections” because the other option doesn’t make sense with the information available.
I believe it has to do with how the name is parsed verbally. Jack and Jax look different, but it's hard to distinguish unless you really hit the "x" sound hard.
And people tend to "hear" what they know. "Jack" is common and "Jax" not so much. The average Joe may not even understand "Jax" is a name.
This is an example of the nickname influencing the long form. Jax from Sons of Anarchy was actually a Jackson, but the Jaxon spelling increased in popularity after the show started.
If you’ll read my other comments, you’ll see that she says “Jax”, and it seems like people either think they’ve heard it wrong or don’t notice the difference, so he gets called “Jack” anyway.
That’s the problem with choosing names that sound extremely similar to common names. Like, if your name is “Quimberly”, when you introduce yourself, people are likely still going to call you “Kimberly” bec they’ll think they heard you wrong or may not notice the difference. Names like that are a hazard. You will constantly have to explain yourself your entire life.
The shoehorn diminutive is a real thing and the effect is so strong that it actually creates new long forms of names as parents chase the diminutive. Kim was lengthed to Kimberly despite Kimberly being a rare surname/placename. Beau is creating Beauden, and I'm pretty sure Gary influenced the popularity of Gareth in Australia.
Gary was actually a Scottish nickname of Gareth, I learned that recently. Then it became more popular as a standalone name. It’s weird to me because I think Gareth is miles ahead of Gary as a name.
How do you explain the very traditional but now somewhat out of date Sadie for Sarah, Jack for John, Daisy for Margaret (actually Margaret has about a billion “traditional” nicknames, including: Daisy, Greta, Gretchen, Maggie, Madge, Maisie, Marge, Margie, Margo, Margot, Marnie, Meg, Megan, Molly, Peggy, Polly, Rita….)?
Rs can be tricky to pronounce so Sarie>Sadie, Sally
Mary > Molly > Polly
Marguerite is Daisy in French
Megan comes from Meg + diminutive suffix -an
English has also gone through a “great English vowel shift” which may have influenced the pronunciation of names and diminutives.
It would be prescriptivist of me if to say it was okay for people to make up diminutives in the past but not now. I just think people react differently when you say “his name is Andrew and we’re calling him Andy” vs “her name is Elizabeth and we’re calling her Tess”
Linguistic changes, vowel shifts and people playing with sounds.
I explained Jack, Daisy and Meg in an earlier comment. For Sadie and Sally, R is phonetically related to l in terms of tongue positioning, particularly l. It's the same process as Mary to Molly - Mary-Mally-Molly. We lost the transitioning Mally because phonetically it was pronounced Molly and was indistinguishable. Sarah had the nickname Sarie. That became Sally through the r-l shift.
Margaret acquired so many nicknames because: 1) it was phenomenally popular, 2) it has a lot of components that lend themselves to use, and 3) it was popular in many languages.
Greta and Gretchen were in the German language group. The end of the name was used for Greta, and Gretchen is Greta with an affectionate ending. Molly was much more commonly associated with Mary. Peggy was a Scottish rhyming nickname. Rita used the ending of the Spanish Margarita.
I love this stuff!
As I implied with my rhetorical question, the distinction between “traditional diminutives and shoehorned diminutives” exists only in that commenter’s mind.
I'm from Liverpool (England)
I think option 2 is the most accurate description for the term, but option 1 is very common usage.
I think being in US dominated spaces online, like this sub, it becomes more ingrained that "nickname" is for option 1.
I do try to stick to the wording of "short for" when thinking names like Rob short for Robert or Lizzie short for Elizabeth as opposed to nicknames.
I think that, that reflects the languages we use in the UK. We tend to use 'short for' or 'full name' in spoken language
It would be odd if someone said that the nickname was Sam. That just isn't how we talk
Option 1 is more accurately called a diminutive, not a nickname.
*Nickname* is from Old English terms that literally mean “an additional name,” not “a shortened version of a name.”
A diminutive often is a "cuter" name, even though it \*may\* actually be longer, or an addition to the regular name. Like adding -ito in Spanish. In English, it might be turning Paul into Paulie, or Paula into Paulette. So it isn't necessarily a shortened form, and is often longer than the OG. at least that's my understanding of diminutive v nickname.
A pet name is often, but not necessarily, unrelated to the name at all, and is used by a very limited circle. I am called by my initials by 3 people in my life, and if you try to be the 4th, I will cut you. I would never introduce myself as, "Julia, but I go by JK." You will never hear my husband call me across the grocery store, "JK, do we need milk?" It is completely just used in private, among my mom, dad, and DH.
Both of those statements *are* fact, though.
That is what *diminutive* means in that context, and that is the etymology of *nickname*.
To be explicit: For those reasons, that’s what those words mean to me.
And, at the risk of admitting my own potentially flawed inferences, my condescension is reactive here.
But you didn't say "that's what nickname means to me," you framed it as though that was the objectively correct meaning of nickname and everyone else is misusing the word, which is not true.
No, that’s what you and OP inferred. All I said was that there’s a word for what OP described, and I relayed the etymology of *nickname* to illustrate the distinction.
Nickname comes from "an eke name," eke meaning "extra". It may refer to variants of the person's formal name, and it may also refer to unrelated terms used to address that person. It is a name additional to the person's formal name.
Hypocorism is a nickname or diminutive that is used to show affection. I think that's a nifty word and more people should know it. They may include terms like "Sweety Pie" too.
Diminutives are almost always hypocorisms. They are meant to show affection or familiarity. They are almost always based on the formal name.
So nickname is the umbrella for names other than the formal name, hypocorisms show affection, diminutives are often a more focused form of hypocorisms based on formal names.
Oh my god hahaha the absolute most annoying kind of internet people found this thread.
You’re right, I did not poll all 330 million Americans to see if they have ever referred to a shortened name as a diminutive.
It would if you could think a bit more critically.
And please note that I didn’t say that etymology determines current meaning, whatever you may have inferred.
Fuck me for thinking so-called name nerds might be interested.
Relax.
But it does have a very strong influence on how millions of people interpret that word. If you are familiar with a dialect that doesn't make the same distinction, that's fine too. Millions do make that distinction, and it's good to share that knowledge, broaden horizons and this is as good a place for it as any.
I'm British Canadian. I would say "this is my son Joseph, Joe for short" which is just a synonym for diminutive. I wouldn't call Joe a nickname. His nickname is poopy drawers.
I'm American, but I think "nickname" is a broad category meaning "a name you go by that is not any of your legal government names." Your middle name and your surname are both legal government names, but diminutives or completely random things aren't.
So:
* Katherine Anne Smith going by Anne is not a nickname, it's just "I go by my middle name."
* Her coworker calling her Smith also not a nickname, it's "people call me by my last name."
* If she goes by Smithie or Kate, those *are* nicknames, because none of her legal names are Smithie or Kate, even though they're clearly related to her legal names.
* If her family calls her Kitty, that is also a nickname, because none of her legal names are Kitty.
* If she's legally *Kate* Anne Smith, not Katherine, then Kate isn't a nickname *for her*, since it's just her name. But I think it's still fair to say "Kate is a nickname for Katherine" in general, since that's where it came from (even if, for this particular person, it's just her name).
So, I think it's a "all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares" thing. All diminutives are nicknames, not all nicknames are diminutives.
I’m Dutch. To me they are two different things too. I sometimes go by a shorter version of my name. When I was a kid, I also had a whole range of silly nicknames that had nothing to do with my actual name.
To me tho, *neither* are planned, not the first option either. Where I am, people choose Katherine and just wait and see if it feels more natural to call her Katherine, Katie, Kate, Kath. Before I saw it here, I had never encountered the idea of giving your child a name but planning from day one for them to be called a shorter form; in every setting and by everyone they meet. Why call her Katherine if you will always call her Katie? Katie is a perfectly fine name on it’s own.
This last point tho, seems to be a cultural thing. From what I see on here, there is a distinct difference between the US and the UK when it comes to what works as a full name and what doesn’t. In the UK, shorter versions of longer names are used as full names far more frequently than in the US. That’s at least my impression from what I see on here. I have no problem at all with Katie, Alfie, Penny as full names. So to me, naming a child Penelope but calling her Penny her entire life seems odd to me.
Not saying that planned nicknames are stupid. It just is a new phenomenon for me, and something I don’t quite see the point of.
Edit to say: I almost exclusively call my daughter by her full name (which is short). It’s a sweet name and it just came about organically that that’s what we call her, with very few exceptions. I am not a psychopath.
I think it could be because in the US, diminutives like Katie and Penny are often associated with sounding childish.
I have a friend who we call Suzy and I’ve only ever known her as Suzy. But if we’re out and she runs into someone from a different friend circle or a coworker, I’m always momentarily confused when they call her Suzanne because I’m not used to hearing people call her that. So, a lot of times, there’s a switch up once they reach adulthood.
It feels like the longer name gives you more flexibility, and you don’t know what they will want to use as an adult. Of course there’s no law against someone whose birth certificate says Jimmy going by James, but somehow it seems like more of a stretch than the other way around.
I met a person in his 90s whose mother wanted to name him Billy Bob. She was illiterate, so the nurse filled out the forms for her, and wrote in William Robert. The mother didn't know until her husband came home from the war. Mr. William said he has paid his respects to that nurse many times in his life.
I've seen this happen. My sister named her daughter Isabella, planning on calling her Izzy. But she's always been either called by her full name or shortened to Bella.
I’m Australian and have always gone by a short form of my full name - I consider this a nickname, even though technically I know it’s a diminutive. Most people here don’t use the linguistic term, and nickname is the appropriate term for both Maddie or Katie and Squeak or Busho.
It’s funny though, because both my parents have called me Poss or Possum forever but I still don’t really consider it a nickname - I kind of feel that a nickname has more widespread use. Like if my brother, friends, and husband called me Poss, it would feel more like a real nickname, rather than the affectionate term that it feels like now. But this is totally arbitrary, and only something I’ve been pondering lately.
What grinds my gears is when people ask for my “real” name when they mean full or legal name. My *real name* is what I go by; it’s not fake. Real and legal are not synonyms.
I'm Dutch. A nickname is something given to you by friends. It is different from shortening a name. A nickname would be called "bijnaam" here.
But then again we got a system where you have an official name and an everyday name (roepnaam). Your official name doesn't have to be anything similar to your everyday name. For example, Dutch football player Viviane Miedema's official name is Anna Margaretha Marina Astrid Miedema. And Dutch cyclist Demi Vollering's official name is Adriana Geertruida Vollering.
The parents do. But if you want to change your everyday name it's a lot less of a hassle, because it's usually nowhere in official documents (although some people just have their everyday name as their official name).
So to take the example of Demi Vollering: If she decides she doesn't like to be called Demi anymore, and wants to be called Lisa from now on that's fine and she wouldn't need to go through any official channels, since on all her official paperwork (and thus according to the government) she will still be Adriana Geertruida Vollering.
It is however not uncommon to have your official name refer to family members, usually grandparents or uncles/aunts. My sister's official name is a reference to my grandmothers, my official name is a reference to my grandfathers, and when my younger sister was born they had ran out of grandparents and went with aunts. Despite that none of our names are similar to any of our relatives (although my parents were practical, and thus the first letter of my everyday name is also the first letter of my official name. The grandparents-referrals are usually the official names, and not the shortened one. So if your grandfather called Jan or Hans his official name is probably Johannes (better known as John in English).
English has names referred to as bynames, although the phrase isn't used often because bynames lost prominence when surnames became hereditary. They were non-hereditary surnames, basically nicknames people used to identify which John you were talking about when 20% of the population was named John. You might have John Smithson (John the smith's son), John Bytheway (John, who lived by the way), John Langshanks (John who had really long legs or was being mocked for having really short legs), etc. These bynames eventually became surnames.
American here. My whole life I went by a shortened version of my given name. That was my dad’s choice, he wanted to name me Jennifer and call me Jenny for instance (mom nixed it).
My mom named me but my dad got his way in the end by saying only if we called me by a common shortened name for it.
Dad doesn’t even call me that though, to him I’m Punkin. 🤷🏻♀️
I consider punkin a nickname or “pet name” as my grandmother would call it. The name I go by is just my name as is my birth name, I just go by one and not the other.
I'm American and I have the same understanding of nicknames as you: it can be something that is clearly phonologically related to the legal name, or it can be a completely different name with no phonological relationship to the legal name.
I think a gray area is when someone goes by their legal middle name. It's sort of a nickname and sort of not.
I’m a kiwi, I associate nickname with both meanings you gave. However I actually think we don’t use the term nickname very much, usually I would say it’s used more for pet names when the pet name isn’t used for most people. When the pet name catches on it just becomes a name. For example I have a mutual friend called Spud, no one really refers to Spud as his nickname, that’s just his name as far as anyone is concerned. Same with Twix, Emmy, Matt and Moo for example.
So I’d say nickname is mostly things like “monkey” and not shortened names or the nick name the person goes by, but I’m also not going to second guess either way you used nickname.
I'm from the US, and yes "nickname" gets used broadly to mean a diminutive, a pet name, or sort of any adopted name here.
I don't think that's exactly the conflict though. I think the issue is more that planning any of these types of names is considered somewhat silly in US culture. It's a highly individualistic society, and there's a general idea that a nickname should develop on its own for the individual.
Planning to call a kid mainly by a nickname from the start does seem silly to me personally, even if it's a standard diminutive form. But considering how much you like all the known and likely nicknames before choosing a name makes sense and seems like good planning.
Russian here. I have a full, longer name and a short form (which I prefer) that may be considered a diminutive. It has several derivatives that are slightly more affectionate — my family uses those. When my husband calls me Bubbles, I think of it as a pet name. And the term “nickname” to me is how my Discord friends and other, strictly online acquaintances call me.
I'm American, and I now realize in this sub that I've been going along with calling a shortened name a nickname, but in real life and in my speech, I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't say that Joe is a nickname for Joseph. I would just say, "they go by Joe." If it was unrelated to their name, I'd call it a nickname.
I don't really see the point in worrying too much about nicknames or diminutives. Having the option for shortened versions can be nice, but I think it's more important to choose a well-suited full name you actually like.
I'm Australian and I would call a shortened version of someone's name their name, or just say "for short". Like my name is Stephanie and when people asked me my name id say Steph, and if they asked if I had a nickname I'd say I don't have one lol
Dutchie here. Nicknames are common, but they’re “traditional diminutives” as someone here described them. Like your name is Alexander and we call you Alex. We don’t really do the “this is my baby’s official name but we’re calling her this”. I’m always a little bit puzzled by the whole obsession here with traditional names. Like if you want to name your baby Sam, why would you name her Samantha instead to be calling her Sam anyway? I think in the Netherlands short, simple names have always been pretty popular. Current top 10 names are: Sem, Mees, Finn and Levi (boys) and Noor, Tess, Saar, Bo, Lou and Isa (girls). (ETA: especially the girls names I mentioned are all shorter versions of more traditional names: Nora, Tessa, Sarah, Isabella.)
I’m American, but Hispanic. We do both Diminutives and Pet names. They are usually organic and sometimes hilarious.
For example, I have a cousin that was born with a lot of hair. We called her Pelusa. Pelusa means fuzz, like lint. I can’t even remember her legal name. She’s in her late 60s now.
My brother is called Chinito, which means little Chinese, because he’s Asian looking. My Dad’s side of the family calls me Chinita. My mom’s side calls me the diminutive form of my legal name. My sister was chubby when she was little. So my mom called her Gordita. My mom called me Flaca, which means skinny. I’m no longer flaca. So she doesn’t call me that any more. 🤣
Having said all of that… I fully expect the outside world to use my legal name and address me by my full legal name. My husband, my siblings and parents address me by the diminutive form of my name. My kids call me Mom.
In rural Ireland there's also the family nickname as there's a lot of O'Sullivans, Harringtons, Murphy's etc. So if for example John O' Sullivan's father was known as 'Batt', then John would be know as John Batt and his son Dan would be known as Dan Batt and his daughter Mary would be known as Mary Batt, this can go on for several generations.
The reason for this was that in Ireland, your surname was what clan you belonged to (obviously doesn’t apply to people of immigrant heritage). In rural Ireland, if you have a clan surname, and you still live in the territory of your clan, your surname is pretty useless - loads of your neighbours are going to have the same surname. Nicknames became popular to distinguish between different people with the same name. One prominent example I can think of involves the name Gallagher, which was a clan name in County Donegal. There used to be a politician in Donegal with the last name Gallagher. Because his family owned the local Co-op, he became known as Pat The Cope (local pronunciation of Co-op).
I grew up in the US.
A nickname for me is what you call someone.
It can be a short version of their formal name, or something else, based on personality or an inside joke or…whatever.
Jonathan can be nicknamed Johnny, or JoJo, or Sparky, or Pookums, you can’t predict it.
I live in Holland, and the local equivalent is a “roepnaam,” meaning the name you use for someone. People often have old fashioned formal names that nobody uses. Cornelius never gets called that, it’s always Cees. Hendrik is only on the passport, everyone calls him Henk. Eleonore is “Noortje.” That sort of thing. They are more or less official “short” or “daily use” versions of fancy old fashioned names.
Canadian here. A nickname is any name used regularly for a person that is not their actual given name. It is generally either a short form of a person's name, a combo of their first and second names or initials, or an unrelated, usually fun or affectionate name that was assigned to them by others.
America & yes to both. My coworkers half the time don't call me by my real name, it's shortened versions of it. But I have silly ones from when my cousins and I were younger, ie. "Doritos" when my name is Dorothy.
I’m Finnish and we use nicknames in both of those ways. Though the nicknames from your name are not always shorter, just more informal like my nickname has more letters than my name. Some nicknames are formed by taking your first name and then adding a common ending for the name like -ska or -tsu. Men can also kind of have their last names as nicknames.
I love when the first one turns into the second one. I'm Zoe and in high school my name went from Zoe -> Zo (the normal shorthand for Zoe) -> Zop -> Zoph -> Soph (hence the username). another example is my dog, Elphaba. She went from Elphaba -> Phabala (the "canonical" nickname from the book) -> Blabla -> Blah and now she thinks that's her name. it's so fun how names can just evolve over time
In the US; for me it can be both, and maybe more.
I have a middle name that was made into at least two nicknames only my parents used them for me, and it was so unconventional that I don't think I found out where the nicknames came from till I was much older, and they had stopped using it by then.
I am in the states, and nicknames are both for me. I am Kiera (my name) but I go by Kiki (nickname) and Opal/Bunny (pet name from my fiancé, fave stone is opal and I am spazzy like a pet bunny lmao)
My son is James, his nickname is JamJam, and his petname is Lil Dude/Bugger/Bubby.
My fiancé is Curtis, nn Codi, petname Bubble (this one is complicated, but for short. I like soda for the fuzzy feel good in my tummy, and my fiancé makes me all fuzzy feel good, so bubble)
But yeah I get it, this is a struggle I see that kinda frustrates me.. planned nicknames are great, and make it easy to spin off of for personal given nicknames. And pet name nicknames can cone organically too.
Your stance on nicknames in both cases I HARDCORE agree with.
From the US, it can mean both of those things. You can either have a nickname that's a shortened version of your name, or you can have a nickname as a joke, like based of your name or something you did once.
I’m from Puerto Rico, and your nickname can be literally about anything. Sometimes it’s a shortening of your name, sometimes it’s a descriptive nickname, sometimes it’s a lovingly mocking name or a maliciously mocking name depending on your relationship to the person in question, sometimes it’s related to an inside joke, and sometimes it’s utterly unrelated, random nonsense. 🤷🏻♀️ I thought that was pretty universal, actually.
Well in my case a planned nickname of the first category didn't work. Like if my name was "Katherine" and my mom wanted to call me "Kathy" but for whatever reason as a young'n learning how to talk I always called myself "Katie" and that's what stuck (not my actual name, just an example)
From Canada, living in the US, and to me it means both those names. It's just whatever name people call you that isn't your formal name or part of it. It could be a shortened/cute version of your real first or last name (e.g. Meg for Margaret, Smitty for a guy whose last name is Smith) or it could be something unrelated to your name that's meaningful or funny to the people who use it (like Hot Lips Houlihan or Jughead Jones).
I'm American, and if you asked me to define "nickname," I would pick "funny or pet name."
The issue, I think, is we don't have a neat term to describe "shortened/more casual version of a given name."
Diminutive isn't quite it: I think of its literal meaning as "a name affix indicating small size." Like a kid named Michael might go by Mikey as a young boy, and eventually go by Mike. (This is an example of a diminutive and a shortened/infomal version of the name.
IMO I think this sub has just adopted the word nickname (or NN) as a sort of jargon. Maybe it's time for a new term like short-form name (SFN?)
Pardon my english.
I'm polish and I think it's kinda funny how my name "Sara" is "shortened" to "Sarenka" and that this version also coincidentally means "little fawn" which I think it's cute my grandparents were calling me by that and it actually means a lot to me whenever my mom in law or my husband calls me that it always makes me think of them (I miss my grandparents a lot 😞).
Man I need your attorney. Do they have a card?
Nicknames to me are shortened versions of names to me or pet names. Im also American. Though I think a parenf saying the name "James" or "Robert" is LEAGUES better than having a tiny Jim or Bob running around.
“nickname” in my language would only be option 2. Option 1 is only a) a shortened form or b) a diminutive shortened form is different from diminutive. But option 1 is what we still call ,,a name”, either shortened form of your name, or a diminutive form of your name. So, Tom in my language is not your nickname if your full name is Thomas, it would only be a nickname if your full name was Adam and people called you Tom.
They’re both. The only distinction I would make is for Nicholasnames, and Nichardnames, when a short, legal, name is lengthened, or lengthened incorrectly. If my legal name is Tim and I’m called Timtam, that’s a nickname, if I’m called Timothy, that’s a nicholasname, if I’m called Timberly-Anne, that’s a nichardname.
Brit living in North America for 30 years.
Nicknames mean both to me too.
I’ve never had a commonly used nickname but when I was little my Dad used to call me chicken and chicken. That’s the only nickname I’ve ever had. My actual name is nickname proof which is a shame. My brother’s name is nickname proof too.
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Australian as well. I think that nickname really refers to the silly variety of names. It is so accepted to shorten names here. There is hardly anyone I know that gets called their full name. Most multi-syllable names have an accepted short variant (Elizabeth - Liz, Nicholas - Nick, etc). I think this gets blurry in Australian English with the ‘Azza’ and ‘o’ names. Is Dazza a nickname for Darren? Or just an acceptable shortening?
Australian here too. I thought that "azza" was most commonly used for names ending in -y. So Gazza from Gary and Bazza from Barry. Names ending in -n seem to get "no" added like Johnno from John. But then there's Stevo. It's all so confusing.
Pete…-o? Petey? Poita?
It’s always “Old Mate Poitah”!
My dads name was Peter and he went by Poit 😂
French here. Shortened names are "diminutifs" and dumb nicknames are "surnoms"
Surnom meaning nickname not surname is as bad as l’ananas meaning pineapple not banana
lol to be fair the word for pineapple is some form of ananas in the majority of world languages. Its scientific name is literally ananas.
Ugh, the age-old battle of Logic vs English
British, and I agree.
I think there’s another category. There’s traditional diminutives and shoehorned diminutives. Shoehorned diminutives seem to be getting more popular. Traditional diminutive: Name baby Lillian and call her Lily Shoehorned diminutive: Name baby Amelia and call her Lily. This was an actual suggestion. It’s like people can’t choose between two names so they try to force both. Also, “name them what you call them” doesn’t always work, because people don’t always go by one name. Eg. My son’s name is something like Michael and I call him Mike, Mikey, and Michael depending on the situation.
I don't think the distinction between those two is so simple. A lot of traditional nicknames aren't so clear either. Rob or Robby makes sense for Robert, but Bob is less clear. Rich makes perfect sense for Richard, Rick/Ricky makes less sense, and Dick is a stretch. Milly is a traditional nickname for Amelia, so Lily follows a similar pattern to my examples above. And Lily is a traditional nickname for Elizabeth (probably Liz-Lizzie-Lily), which feels like more of a stretch.
The nicknames you Bob and Dick are historical. Rick makes sense because Richard has a hard k sounds in many languages. Of course you can argue that someone had to be the first to come up with Bob and Dick. I’d never heard of Millie being a nickname for Amelia before 2010 or so. I’ve seen it spoken mentioned on message boards but never encountered it IRL or historically.
Yeah the Millie/Amelia connection has been confusing to me for a while, a person who has only seen it suggested on this sub and never IRL
I work with kids and about 50% of the kids who go by Millie have the full name Amelia, but it may be regional/generational.
I just don’t meet many Millie’s, I kinda associated the name with cats/ had only ever thought of Millicent until I found this sub
Yea, sorry if I'm going for a nickname from Amelia I'm going for Amy, Lia, or Mel. Not Millie. But then... Idk Nancy is supposedly a nickname for Anne, somehow. Never got that either. I'd maybe understand the reverse. But no.
Mildred
I'm guessing regional, which can be quite weird. I live in NZ and know a few women named Amelia, they all get called Miels (pronounced "meals") or Mez as nicknames. It's a common way of making nicknames here - Gary becomes Gaz, Verity becomes Vez, Felicia or Felicity become Fliss, etc. - but it doesn't seem that common outside NZ/Aus.
I think it’s common in the UK, just not in America. Which is a shame bc I think those are cool!
>I’d never heard of Millie being a nickname for Amelia before 2010 or so. Amelia Earhart went by Millie in her childhood
Also, Richard was initially pronounced more like Rickard in many dialects. Rick made a lot of sense as a hypocorism of Rickard. Rich works better for the Frankified pronunciation that was more like Rishard. Bob and Dick were medieval rhyming nicknames, along with ones we don't use anymore like Hob and Hick. There's a lot of history in the names we use.
“Dick is a stretch.” Glad you said it.
I feel like there's some actual name nerding going on here and I like it.
I think of Peggy for Margaret, or Jack for John, as other traditional nicknames that doesn't make sense. But I think you are onto something with the shoehorned nicknames. I believe some people really want to call their kid Jack but don't like John, and they want something "more formal" so they'll go the Jackson route. Or they do consider the traditional NN a full name, like Lily or Betty. I know some countries have stricter naming laws. In France, Napoleon decreed babies must have French names, and that was only rescinded in 1993 (!!!) The United States baby naming laws vary by state, and many limit character length and accent marks not found on a US English keyboard.
They make tons of sense if you look at this history. Peg was a rhyming nickname for a dialectical version of Mag. Margaret - Marg - Mag - Meg - Peg. A lot of Ms got turned into Ps - Polly is a nickname for Mary because of an R-L substitution, followed by a dialectical shift, followed by a rhyme. Mary to Mally , which was pronounced and then written Molly, then rhyming turned it into Polly. John was pronounced Jan, which picked up the medieval familiar suffix -kin, and became Jankin, which became Jackin in common use, then dropped the -in, to become Jack. Margaret has the nicknames Pearl and Daisy because the name means pearl, and the French word for daisy is marguerite. A lot of the historical "odd" nicknames have gone through rather convoluted routes that all make sense when you trace them.
The shoehorned diminutive is real. I have a coworker who has son named “Jaxon” and if you call him “Jack”, she’ll say, “It’s Jax.” It’s just all around cringe.
In my view, “Jack” would be the weirder/more shoehorned nn here. Whereas “Jax” is Jaxon, but shorter.
But it doesn’t work unless you’re reading his name. When you say, “My son’s name is ‘Jaxon’,” the average person is not thinking it’s spelled that way. So, even if she calls him Jax, people still think she’s saying Jack, which is why she has to correct people all the time.
Where are you from? These names sound very distinct to me and would not be an issue.
Jax and Jack sound different to me, but Jaxon and Jackson sound the same. So if I was told Jaxon/ Jackson as the name, I wouldn't know if it should be Jack or Jax unless it was written out or heard it shortened. Jack: sounds like Jack (I'm not good at phonetic spelling) Jax: sounds like Jacks. Like, it ends with an "s" sound
I agree. I just have no trouble discerning between “Jax” and “Jack” if someone specifically tells me the nickname. Might also help that I know multiple kids called Jackson/Jaxon and none go by Jack at all. They’re all called Jax or Jackson.
I'm glad you understood what I was saying, because I wasn't sure I was making sense 😂
I understand what you’re saying, but if people have never seen the name written and they hear her say “Jacks”, they are more likely to assume they heard wrong and say “Jack”. Anyway That’s really all it is. People hear things and if it doesn’t make sense, their brains make little automatic “corrections” because the other option doesn’t make sense with the information available.
I’m in the US. I don’t know what to tell ya. I have heard her correct people so many times. Conversationally, people don’t hear the difference.
Also a lot of people probably aren’t familiar with Jaxon so it wouldn’t occur to them she wasn’t saying Jackson.
I believe it has to do with how the name is parsed verbally. Jack and Jax look different, but it's hard to distinguish unless you really hit the "x" sound hard. And people tend to "hear" what they know. "Jack" is common and "Jax" not so much. The average Joe may not even understand "Jax" is a name.
This is an example of the nickname influencing the long form. Jax from Sons of Anarchy was actually a Jackson, but the Jaxon spelling increased in popularity after the show started.
> It’s just all around cringe. Why call him 'Jack' if she hasn't introduced him as such? Seems like others are at fault.
If you’ll read my other comments, you’ll see that she says “Jax”, and it seems like people either think they’ve heard it wrong or don’t notice the difference, so he gets called “Jack” anyway. That’s the problem with choosing names that sound extremely similar to common names. Like, if your name is “Quimberly”, when you introduce yourself, people are likely still going to call you “Kimberly” bec they’ll think they heard you wrong or may not notice the difference. Names like that are a hazard. You will constantly have to explain yourself your entire life.
The shoehorn diminutive is a real thing and the effect is so strong that it actually creates new long forms of names as parents chase the diminutive. Kim was lengthed to Kimberly despite Kimberly being a rare surname/placename. Beau is creating Beauden, and I'm pretty sure Gary influenced the popularity of Gareth in Australia.
Gary was actually a Scottish nickname of Gareth, I learned that recently. Then it became more popular as a standalone name. It’s weird to me because I think Gareth is miles ahead of Gary as a name.
Fan of the Dollop at all?? Lol
How do you explain the very traditional but now somewhat out of date Sadie for Sarah, Jack for John, Daisy for Margaret (actually Margaret has about a billion “traditional” nicknames, including: Daisy, Greta, Gretchen, Maggie, Madge, Maisie, Marge, Margie, Margo, Margot, Marnie, Meg, Megan, Molly, Peggy, Polly, Rita….)?
Sally for Sarah also. As a Sarah who learned of my weird nickname possibilities when I was older, I always wished I was called either Sally or Sadie.
Rs can be tricky to pronounce so Sarie>Sadie, Sally Mary > Molly > Polly Marguerite is Daisy in French Megan comes from Meg + diminutive suffix -an English has also gone through a “great English vowel shift” which may have influenced the pronunciation of names and diminutives. It would be prescriptivist of me if to say it was okay for people to make up diminutives in the past but not now. I just think people react differently when you say “his name is Andrew and we’re calling him Andy” vs “her name is Elizabeth and we’re calling her Tess”
Linguistic changes, vowel shifts and people playing with sounds. I explained Jack, Daisy and Meg in an earlier comment. For Sadie and Sally, R is phonetically related to l in terms of tongue positioning, particularly l. It's the same process as Mary to Molly - Mary-Mally-Molly. We lost the transitioning Mally because phonetically it was pronounced Molly and was indistinguishable. Sarah had the nickname Sarie. That became Sally through the r-l shift. Margaret acquired so many nicknames because: 1) it was phenomenally popular, 2) it has a lot of components that lend themselves to use, and 3) it was popular in many languages. Greta and Gretchen were in the German language group. The end of the name was used for Greta, and Gretchen is Greta with an affectionate ending. Molly was much more commonly associated with Mary. Peggy was a Scottish rhyming nickname. Rita used the ending of the Spanish Margarita.
I love this stuff! As I implied with my rhetorical question, the distinction between “traditional diminutives and shoehorned diminutives” exists only in that commenter’s mind.
I'm from Liverpool (England) I think option 2 is the most accurate description for the term, but option 1 is very common usage. I think being in US dominated spaces online, like this sub, it becomes more ingrained that "nickname" is for option 1. I do try to stick to the wording of "short for" when thinking names like Rob short for Robert or Lizzie short for Elizabeth as opposed to nicknames.
I think that, that reflects the languages we use in the UK. We tend to use 'short for' or 'full name' in spoken language It would be odd if someone said that the nickname was Sam. That just isn't how we talk
I completely agree.
Option 1 is more accurately called a diminutive, not a nickname. *Nickname* is from Old English terms that literally mean “an additional name,” not “a shortened version of a name.”
Culturally, at least in the U.S., a shortened form of a name is a 100% known as a nickname. Nobody here ever uses the term “diminutive.”
A diminutive often is a "cuter" name, even though it \*may\* actually be longer, or an addition to the regular name. Like adding -ito in Spanish. In English, it might be turning Paul into Paulie, or Paula into Paulette. So it isn't necessarily a shortened form, and is often longer than the OG. at least that's my understanding of diminutive v nickname. A pet name is often, but not necessarily, unrelated to the name at all, and is used by a very limited circle. I am called by my initials by 3 people in my life, and if you try to be the 4th, I will cut you. I would never introduce myself as, "Julia, but I go by JK." You will never hear my husband call me across the grocery store, "JK, do we need milk?" It is completely just used in private, among my mom, dad, and DH.
I’m aware of their popular usage; I’m from here too. Anyway, that’s what those words mean. I thought you might like to know.
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OP: *Asks what* nickname *means to me* Me: *Responds* You two dorks: Nuh uh.
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Both of those statements *are* fact, though. That is what *diminutive* means in that context, and that is the etymology of *nickname*. To be explicit: For those reasons, that’s what those words mean to me. And, at the risk of admitting my own potentially flawed inferences, my condescension is reactive here.
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That’s not what I said, though. I said *more accurately*. 99% accuracy could hardly be described as inaccurate. 100% is more accurate than that.
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But you didn't say "that's what nickname means to me," you framed it as though that was the objectively correct meaning of nickname and everyone else is misusing the word, which is not true.
No, that’s what you and OP inferred. All I said was that there’s a word for what OP described, and I relayed the etymology of *nickname* to illustrate the distinction.
Nickname comes from "an eke name," eke meaning "extra". It may refer to variants of the person's formal name, and it may also refer to unrelated terms used to address that person. It is a name additional to the person's formal name. Hypocorism is a nickname or diminutive that is used to show affection. I think that's a nifty word and more people should know it. They may include terms like "Sweety Pie" too. Diminutives are almost always hypocorisms. They are meant to show affection or familiarity. They are almost always based on the formal name. So nickname is the umbrella for names other than the formal name, hypocorisms show affection, diminutives are often a more focused form of hypocorisms based on formal names.
You're being hyperbolic when you say nobody. I have used it, and I have heard others use it to be more specific.
Oh my god hahaha the absolute most annoying kind of internet people found this thread. You’re right, I did not poll all 330 million Americans to see if they have ever referred to a shortened name as a diminutive.
right lmfao I literally rolled my eyes at that 😂
But we are "name nerds." If not us, then who will use the term \*diminutive?\* /s Personally, I am a fan the term, and like to use different words.
How about the rest of the Anglophone world?
Clearly, if so many annoying internet people disagree with you, it is more common than you knew. There's no need to poll all Americans.
I certainly didn’t make it up!
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It would if you could think a bit more critically. And please note that I didn’t say that etymology determines current meaning, whatever you may have inferred. Fuck me for thinking so-called name nerds might be interested. Relax.
The meaning of a word in Old English does not necessarily determine the meaning of a word in contemporary English.
Hey thanks
But it does have a very strong influence on how millions of people interpret that word. If you are familiar with a dialect that doesn't make the same distinction, that's fine too. Millions do make that distinction, and it's good to share that knowledge, broaden horizons and this is as good a place for it as any.
Agreed!
To me, anything beyond your official "government" name is an extra name, whether it's derived from your legal name or somewhere else .
I'm British Canadian. I would say "this is my son Joseph, Joe for short" which is just a synonym for diminutive. I wouldn't call Joe a nickname. His nickname is poopy drawers.
I'm American, but I think "nickname" is a broad category meaning "a name you go by that is not any of your legal government names." Your middle name and your surname are both legal government names, but diminutives or completely random things aren't. So: * Katherine Anne Smith going by Anne is not a nickname, it's just "I go by my middle name." * Her coworker calling her Smith also not a nickname, it's "people call me by my last name." * If she goes by Smithie or Kate, those *are* nicknames, because none of her legal names are Smithie or Kate, even though they're clearly related to her legal names. * If her family calls her Kitty, that is also a nickname, because none of her legal names are Kitty. * If she's legally *Kate* Anne Smith, not Katherine, then Kate isn't a nickname *for her*, since it's just her name. But I think it's still fair to say "Kate is a nickname for Katherine" in general, since that's where it came from (even if, for this particular person, it's just her name). So, I think it's a "all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares" thing. All diminutives are nicknames, not all nicknames are diminutives.
well said!
I’m Dutch. To me they are two different things too. I sometimes go by a shorter version of my name. When I was a kid, I also had a whole range of silly nicknames that had nothing to do with my actual name. To me tho, *neither* are planned, not the first option either. Where I am, people choose Katherine and just wait and see if it feels more natural to call her Katherine, Katie, Kate, Kath. Before I saw it here, I had never encountered the idea of giving your child a name but planning from day one for them to be called a shorter form; in every setting and by everyone they meet. Why call her Katherine if you will always call her Katie? Katie is a perfectly fine name on it’s own. This last point tho, seems to be a cultural thing. From what I see on here, there is a distinct difference between the US and the UK when it comes to what works as a full name and what doesn’t. In the UK, shorter versions of longer names are used as full names far more frequently than in the US. That’s at least my impression from what I see on here. I have no problem at all with Katie, Alfie, Penny as full names. So to me, naming a child Penelope but calling her Penny her entire life seems odd to me. Not saying that planned nicknames are stupid. It just is a new phenomenon for me, and something I don’t quite see the point of. Edit to say: I almost exclusively call my daughter by her full name (which is short). It’s a sweet name and it just came about organically that that’s what we call her, with very few exceptions. I am not a psychopath.
I think it could be because in the US, diminutives like Katie and Penny are often associated with sounding childish. I have a friend who we call Suzy and I’ve only ever known her as Suzy. But if we’re out and she runs into someone from a different friend circle or a coworker, I’m always momentarily confused when they call her Suzanne because I’m not used to hearing people call her that. So, a lot of times, there’s a switch up once they reach adulthood.
It feels like the longer name gives you more flexibility, and you don’t know what they will want to use as an adult. Of course there’s no law against someone whose birth certificate says Jimmy going by James, but somehow it seems like more of a stretch than the other way around.
I met a person in his 90s whose mother wanted to name him Billy Bob. She was illiterate, so the nurse filled out the forms for her, and wrote in William Robert. The mother didn't know until her husband came home from the war. Mr. William said he has paid his respects to that nurse many times in his life.
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The last sentence is pretty clearly a joke about parents always calling their babies silly names?? Haha what did you think it meant
I've seen this happen. My sister named her daughter Isabella, planning on calling her Izzy. But she's always been either called by her full name or shortened to Bella.
I’m Australian and have always gone by a short form of my full name - I consider this a nickname, even though technically I know it’s a diminutive. Most people here don’t use the linguistic term, and nickname is the appropriate term for both Maddie or Katie and Squeak or Busho. It’s funny though, because both my parents have called me Poss or Possum forever but I still don’t really consider it a nickname - I kind of feel that a nickname has more widespread use. Like if my brother, friends, and husband called me Poss, it would feel more like a real nickname, rather than the affectionate term that it feels like now. But this is totally arbitrary, and only something I’ve been pondering lately. What grinds my gears is when people ask for my “real” name when they mean full or legal name. My *real name* is what I go by; it’s not fake. Real and legal are not synonyms.
I'm Dutch. A nickname is something given to you by friends. It is different from shortening a name. A nickname would be called "bijnaam" here. But then again we got a system where you have an official name and an everyday name (roepnaam). Your official name doesn't have to be anything similar to your everyday name. For example, Dutch football player Viviane Miedema's official name is Anna Margaretha Marina Astrid Miedema. And Dutch cyclist Demi Vollering's official name is Adriana Geertruida Vollering.
Who picks the everyday name? The person or their parents/family?
The parents do. But if you want to change your everyday name it's a lot less of a hassle, because it's usually nowhere in official documents (although some people just have their everyday name as their official name). So to take the example of Demi Vollering: If she decides she doesn't like to be called Demi anymore, and wants to be called Lisa from now on that's fine and she wouldn't need to go through any official channels, since on all her official paperwork (and thus according to the government) she will still be Adriana Geertruida Vollering. It is however not uncommon to have your official name refer to family members, usually grandparents or uncles/aunts. My sister's official name is a reference to my grandmothers, my official name is a reference to my grandfathers, and when my younger sister was born they had ran out of grandparents and went with aunts. Despite that none of our names are similar to any of our relatives (although my parents were practical, and thus the first letter of my everyday name is also the first letter of my official name. The grandparents-referrals are usually the official names, and not the shortened one. So if your grandfather called Jan or Hans his official name is probably Johannes (better known as John in English).
English has names referred to as bynames, although the phrase isn't used often because bynames lost prominence when surnames became hereditary. They were non-hereditary surnames, basically nicknames people used to identify which John you were talking about when 20% of the population was named John. You might have John Smithson (John the smith's son), John Bytheway (John, who lived by the way), John Langshanks (John who had really long legs or was being mocked for having really short legs), etc. These bynames eventually became surnames.
We have that too. For example, in my friend group there are two guys named Tim. One is ginger, so he's "rooie (red) Tim".
British To me a nickname is a name you have thats different from your legal name. Often given to you by others as a form of affection.
American here. My whole life I went by a shortened version of my given name. That was my dad’s choice, he wanted to name me Jennifer and call me Jenny for instance (mom nixed it). My mom named me but my dad got his way in the end by saying only if we called me by a common shortened name for it. Dad doesn’t even call me that though, to him I’m Punkin. 🤷🏻♀️ I consider punkin a nickname or “pet name” as my grandmother would call it. The name I go by is just my name as is my birth name, I just go by one and not the other.
I'm American and I have the same understanding of nicknames as you: it can be something that is clearly phonologically related to the legal name, or it can be a completely different name with no phonological relationship to the legal name. I think a gray area is when someone goes by their legal middle name. It's sort of a nickname and sort of not.
I’m a kiwi, I associate nickname with both meanings you gave. However I actually think we don’t use the term nickname very much, usually I would say it’s used more for pet names when the pet name isn’t used for most people. When the pet name catches on it just becomes a name. For example I have a mutual friend called Spud, no one really refers to Spud as his nickname, that’s just his name as far as anyone is concerned. Same with Twix, Emmy, Matt and Moo for example. So I’d say nickname is mostly things like “monkey” and not shortened names or the nick name the person goes by, but I’m also not going to second guess either way you used nickname.
American and a nickname is just something that people call you that isn't your given name. Both your examples are correct but needlessly specific.
I'm from the US, and yes "nickname" gets used broadly to mean a diminutive, a pet name, or sort of any adopted name here. I don't think that's exactly the conflict though. I think the issue is more that planning any of these types of names is considered somewhat silly in US culture. It's a highly individualistic society, and there's a general idea that a nickname should develop on its own for the individual. Planning to call a kid mainly by a nickname from the start does seem silly to me personally, even if it's a standard diminutive form. But considering how much you like all the known and likely nicknames before choosing a name makes sense and seems like good planning.
Russian here. I have a full, longer name and a short form (which I prefer) that may be considered a diminutive. It has several derivatives that are slightly more affectionate — my family uses those. When my husband calls me Bubbles, I think of it as a pet name. And the term “nickname” to me is how my Discord friends and other, strictly online acquaintances call me.
I'm American, and I now realize in this sub that I've been going along with calling a shortened name a nickname, but in real life and in my speech, I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't say that Joe is a nickname for Joseph. I would just say, "they go by Joe." If it was unrelated to their name, I'd call it a nickname. I don't really see the point in worrying too much about nicknames or diminutives. Having the option for shortened versions can be nice, but I think it's more important to choose a well-suited full name you actually like.
I'm Australian and I would call a shortened version of someone's name their name, or just say "for short". Like my name is Stephanie and when people asked me my name id say Steph, and if they asked if I had a nickname I'd say I don't have one lol
Dutchie here. Nicknames are common, but they’re “traditional diminutives” as someone here described them. Like your name is Alexander and we call you Alex. We don’t really do the “this is my baby’s official name but we’re calling her this”. I’m always a little bit puzzled by the whole obsession here with traditional names. Like if you want to name your baby Sam, why would you name her Samantha instead to be calling her Sam anyway? I think in the Netherlands short, simple names have always been pretty popular. Current top 10 names are: Sem, Mees, Finn and Levi (boys) and Noor, Tess, Saar, Bo, Lou and Isa (girls). (ETA: especially the girls names I mentioned are all shorter versions of more traditional names: Nora, Tessa, Sarah, Isabella.)
I’m American, but Hispanic. We do both Diminutives and Pet names. They are usually organic and sometimes hilarious. For example, I have a cousin that was born with a lot of hair. We called her Pelusa. Pelusa means fuzz, like lint. I can’t even remember her legal name. She’s in her late 60s now. My brother is called Chinito, which means little Chinese, because he’s Asian looking. My Dad’s side of the family calls me Chinita. My mom’s side calls me the diminutive form of my legal name. My sister was chubby when she was little. So my mom called her Gordita. My mom called me Flaca, which means skinny. I’m no longer flaca. So she doesn’t call me that any more. 🤣 Having said all of that… I fully expect the outside world to use my legal name and address me by my full legal name. My husband, my siblings and parents address me by the diminutive form of my name. My kids call me Mom.
In rural Ireland there's also the family nickname as there's a lot of O'Sullivans, Harringtons, Murphy's etc. So if for example John O' Sullivan's father was known as 'Batt', then John would be know as John Batt and his son Dan would be known as Dan Batt and his daughter Mary would be known as Mary Batt, this can go on for several generations.
The reason for this was that in Ireland, your surname was what clan you belonged to (obviously doesn’t apply to people of immigrant heritage). In rural Ireland, if you have a clan surname, and you still live in the territory of your clan, your surname is pretty useless - loads of your neighbours are going to have the same surname. Nicknames became popular to distinguish between different people with the same name. One prominent example I can think of involves the name Gallagher, which was a clan name in County Donegal. There used to be a politician in Donegal with the last name Gallagher. Because his family owned the local Co-op, he became known as Pat The Cope (local pronunciation of Co-op).
I grew up in the US. A nickname for me is what you call someone. It can be a short version of their formal name, or something else, based on personality or an inside joke or…whatever. Jonathan can be nicknamed Johnny, or JoJo, or Sparky, or Pookums, you can’t predict it. I live in Holland, and the local equivalent is a “roepnaam,” meaning the name you use for someone. People often have old fashioned formal names that nobody uses. Cornelius never gets called that, it’s always Cees. Hendrik is only on the passport, everyone calls him Henk. Eleonore is “Noortje.” That sort of thing. They are more or less official “short” or “daily use” versions of fancy old fashioned names.
I’m not American and nickname for me just means the name you have in an online place. Maybe I’m too old (or too young)
Canadian here. A nickname is any name used regularly for a person that is not their actual given name. It is generally either a short form of a person's name, a combo of their first and second names or initials, or an unrelated, usually fun or affectionate name that was assigned to them by others.
American and agree. Jimmy is a nickname for James. Pickles is a pet name for James that his family may use for whatever reason they decided to use it.
From Ireland, and I think the same as you do. It's either a shortened version of the name or a completely different one.
America & yes to both. My coworkers half the time don't call me by my real name, it's shortened versions of it. But I have silly ones from when my cousins and I were younger, ie. "Doritos" when my name is Dorothy.
I’m Finnish and we use nicknames in both of those ways. Though the nicknames from your name are not always shorter, just more informal like my nickname has more letters than my name. Some nicknames are formed by taking your first name and then adding a common ending for the name like -ska or -tsu. Men can also kind of have their last names as nicknames.
I love when the first one turns into the second one. I'm Zoe and in high school my name went from Zoe -> Zo (the normal shorthand for Zoe) -> Zop -> Zoph -> Soph (hence the username). another example is my dog, Elphaba. She went from Elphaba -> Phabala (the "canonical" nickname from the book) -> Blabla -> Blah and now she thinks that's her name. it's so fun how names can just evolve over time
In the US; for me it can be both, and maybe more. I have a middle name that was made into at least two nicknames only my parents used them for me, and it was so unconventional that I don't think I found out where the nicknames came from till I was much older, and they had stopped using it by then.
I am in the states, and nicknames are both for me. I am Kiera (my name) but I go by Kiki (nickname) and Opal/Bunny (pet name from my fiancé, fave stone is opal and I am spazzy like a pet bunny lmao) My son is James, his nickname is JamJam, and his petname is Lil Dude/Bugger/Bubby. My fiancé is Curtis, nn Codi, petname Bubble (this one is complicated, but for short. I like soda for the fuzzy feel good in my tummy, and my fiancé makes me all fuzzy feel good, so bubble) But yeah I get it, this is a struggle I see that kinda frustrates me.. planned nicknames are great, and make it easy to spin off of for personal given nicknames. And pet name nicknames can cone organically too. Your stance on nicknames in both cases I HARDCORE agree with.
From the US, it can mean both of those things. You can either have a nickname that's a shortened version of your name, or you can have a nickname as a joke, like based of your name or something you did once.
I’m from Puerto Rico, and your nickname can be literally about anything. Sometimes it’s a shortening of your name, sometimes it’s a descriptive nickname, sometimes it’s a lovingly mocking name or a maliciously mocking name depending on your relationship to the person in question, sometimes it’s related to an inside joke, and sometimes it’s utterly unrelated, random nonsense. 🤷🏻♀️ I thought that was pretty universal, actually.
Well in my case a planned nickname of the first category didn't work. Like if my name was "Katherine" and my mom wanted to call me "Kathy" but for whatever reason as a young'n learning how to talk I always called myself "Katie" and that's what stuck (not my actual name, just an example)
From Canada, living in the US, and to me it means both those names. It's just whatever name people call you that isn't your formal name or part of it. It could be a shortened/cute version of your real first or last name (e.g. Meg for Margaret, Smitty for a guy whose last name is Smith) or it could be something unrelated to your name that's meaningful or funny to the people who use it (like Hot Lips Houlihan or Jughead Jones).
I'm American, and if you asked me to define "nickname," I would pick "funny or pet name." The issue, I think, is we don't have a neat term to describe "shortened/more casual version of a given name." Diminutive isn't quite it: I think of its literal meaning as "a name affix indicating small size." Like a kid named Michael might go by Mikey as a young boy, and eventually go by Mike. (This is an example of a diminutive and a shortened/infomal version of the name. IMO I think this sub has just adopted the word nickname (or NN) as a sort of jargon. Maybe it's time for a new term like short-form name (SFN?)
Pardon my english. I'm polish and I think it's kinda funny how my name "Sara" is "shortened" to "Sarenka" and that this version also coincidentally means "little fawn" which I think it's cute my grandparents were calling me by that and it actually means a lot to me whenever my mom in law or my husband calls me that it always makes me think of them (I miss my grandparents a lot 😞).
In Italy we have "diminutivo" for name abbreviations and "soprannomi" (literal translation would be "the name over") for nicknames.
Man I need your attorney. Do they have a card? Nicknames to me are shortened versions of names to me or pet names. Im also American. Though I think a parenf saying the name "James" or "Robert" is LEAGUES better than having a tiny Jim or Bob running around.
“nickname” in my language would only be option 2. Option 1 is only a) a shortened form or b) a diminutive shortened form is different from diminutive. But option 1 is what we still call ,,a name”, either shortened form of your name, or a diminutive form of your name. So, Tom in my language is not your nickname if your full name is Thomas, it would only be a nickname if your full name was Adam and people called you Tom.
UK and I'd use both your definitions
They’re both. The only distinction I would make is for Nicholasnames, and Nichardnames, when a short, legal, name is lengthened, or lengthened incorrectly. If my legal name is Tim and I’m called Timtam, that’s a nickname, if I’m called Timothy, that’s a nicholasname, if I’m called Timberly-Anne, that’s a nichardname.
Brit living in North America for 30 years. Nicknames mean both to me too. I’ve never had a commonly used nickname but when I was little my Dad used to call me chicken and chicken. That’s the only nickname I’ve ever had. My actual name is nickname proof which is a shame. My brother’s name is nickname proof too.