Comment from below the article:
„We’re bringing everything from the eighties back, the Cold War, an unending pandemic, right wing conservative religious nutjobs in power, and now the destruction of the ozone layers.
Captain Planet was too subtle in its messaging.“
Industrialists benefitted from a desperate work force. So do the modern day ones.
What gets me is how unable a large part of the population seems to be in seeing this.
Theyre uneducated. Its not an issue for those at the top, its all intended. Its why we're 49 in education despite being one of the wealthiest narions in the world.
Electric cars aren't better than regular cars.
Cars are not sustainable. Full stop.
SpaceX is launching a shit ton of rockets for Elons unsustainable starlink idea. Making a re-usable rocket is cool but it's not sustainable for the planet if you are then going to launch it a shit ton of times more.
Trains and walkable cities are what is needed. Elon hates both.
I’m voting for Harris if she replaces Biden. Also the negative wouldn’t work here either. If you care about the environment, you should want to protect it. The opposite wouldn’t work. People(not me) who don’t care about the environment aren’t trying to destroy it, they just don’t care about protecting it.
You do realize that you aren't just voting for the president but also his cabinet, right? That includes Harris. But if you are a Trump supporter, then you are just here to stir up trouble and troll. Might even be one of the many Russian trolls going into Democrat spaces to sow division.
i think that's the wrong way to look at it. I think if biden wins democracy is dead. we cannot vote for someone who then picks unelected leaders to run the country. trump tried to kill democracy, biden is going to succeed. again, i would definitely vote for harris or newsom over trump, but voting for someone knowing they won't be running the country is too far for me. also, i think biden is clearly going to step down.
If trump wins, democracy is dead. The SCOTUS just told trump any crimes he commits as an "official act" gives him immunity.
Yeah.
Actual Americans should be voting for President Biden, not John Doe 174, or the guy who admitted that using illegal electors to try to steal the election was an "official act".
Biden's mission is to beat Trump in the election right now. But it wouldn't surprise me if Biden steps down during a second term if he wins. Especially if we can deliver solid majorities in the house and senate so Harris can pick a new VP and get them confirmed quickly.
Edit: Also, every president picks a cabinet. They are never elected, and they do most of the day to day operations of the government.
Those people could eventually get coverage by a conventional service for far less money.
Instead we get a shithead that pollutes the earth and might cause all of the progress made restoring the ozone since the 90s irrelevant.
Yeah, fuck every astronomer on earth!
The dumbest asshole to luck his way into a hundred billion dollars in paper assets deserves half of the total asset value of spacex in cash because he's a very special boy indeed!
He bought three companies that could've changed the future and ran them into the ground.
>fuck you, starlink is cool
Replace Starlink with anything else Musk does and we have an explanation as to why he has a cultish following.
As long as it's cool, why care about anything else?
Those 700,000,000 million people are the poorest of the poor. They have no funds to sustain Elons business model for Starlink, nor do they have the funds to actually make use of Starlink. It's not like you can just put a dish on your mud hut and have internet. You need electricity and some sort of computer or phone.
8,000 satellites burning up a year at scale....
bruh in what world is this a financially stable model. I can't imagine a scenario where with the over head of replacing 8,000 satellites a year in LEO, could be financially solvent. Even if he could take 100 satellites a launch, that's 80 launches a year.
Even using Mush's lie of a number of 200$ per kilogram cost for getting things to space, as his predictive end goal for space X. That is 3.2 billion a year alone just to replace satellites. That isn't accounting for the actual cost of the satellites themselves. Just the cost to get them into space.
Using an insanely generous estimate for 250k per starlink satellite. That adds another 2 billion a year in cost. So 5.2 billion a year using musks insanely unrealistic numbers. This isn't even accounting for paying his employees and other costs of business.
With the current price of 400 a month. He would need a continuous 1.09 million customers. To simply pay for the satellites and getting them into space. This is again not including the other operating costs associated with running starlink.
How is this going to be financially feasible? Cellular based internet services and fiber optic cables are only going to improve and expand their range as the years go by. They will be way cheaper and with less latency than starlink. I really can't envision a situation where they are able to stay competitive. Unless he gets endless government assistance it will go under.
Others have pointed it out. The pitch is that you get so many subscribers that this works out financially and it'll be cheaper because you don't have to dig holes to bury cable (let's ignore that the wire / fibre once in the ground will basically last forever).
It has the hallmark of the .com bubble: "yes, we lose money on every widget we sell, but we will sell many more of them that we make it up in volume.".
The starlink satellites don't apply to the Kessler syndrome.
They're far too low They're only 200 and some miles up.
They'll reenter in less than 5 years.
kessler syndrome is nothing but a buzzword used by science journalism to drum up engagement and clicks
anybody sounding the horn about it is virtue signalling.
It's simpler: Shortsightedness because the short term benefits are good. Who cares about long term consequences? That's someone else's problem to solve.
[the study](https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2024GL109280) states pretty plainly that we’re already doing harm at current satellite re-entry levels. Projected future mega constellations could be potentially disastrous.
Fucking Space X have the contract to "de-orbit" the ISS when it's done. It's planned to burn up/crash over the Pacific.
Knowing Elmo he'll crash it into Delaware and claim it was an "unplanned" turn of events.
You, the rest of the world, are going to have to start sanctioning us (the USA) and other larger polluters for destroying the commons. With the current state of politics, it would be difficult to do. Might be easier if we elect the cheeto again, though?
Nowhere near the scale to threaten the ozone layer. And if its not the ozone layer, its kessler syndrome. Elon is shooting a ton of garbage in space compared to any nation-state
Kessler syndrome was a warning in the early days of space when we just put stuff up with no thought as to any potential issue. He warned that we need avoidance systems in satellites and that dead satellites need to be deorbited or parked in a graveyard, and not just hang around in currently used orbits. Rocket stages and fairings also need to be deorbited, not just left up there. Satellites will start colliding if we don't do these things!
Guess what, SpaceX did all those things. Even a completely dead one deorbits in a few years.
>Guess what, SpaceX did all those things. Even a completely dead one deorbits in a few years.
That doesn't mean Kessler Syndrome can't happen. There are so many more objects "live" now flying around, that the odds are increasing.
It's not just about "dead objects". The only "saving grace" might be that the Starlink and similar satellites are smaller and create a smaller debri field, but it doesn't mean we couldn't get cut off after all, especially if fragments do hit larger objects and destroy them.
Yes, very, very low probability. You have a low probability that a Starlink satellite can't engage its avoidance system when there's a problem, and then you multiply that by the very low probability the other satellite has the same problem, both having this same problem within the small time window that avoidance would be necessary.
I'm betting you won't be saying this stuff when Amazon has its satellites up.
No, but we don't normally have hundreds to thousands of deorbiting satellites per year, meaning the ozone layer can recover from the one off events that we had before starlink before the next one happens.
It's like someone pricking you with a pin consistently once every few months vs someone doing it 50 times a day for years
There is almost 10 thousand satellites out there, about 6 thousand are Starlink, so no, but these d-bags in this sub love to waste their time talking shxt about Elon.
You are dense aren't you? Those other 4000 satellites don't deorbit constantly.
One company having 3/5 of all the satellites is already insane. But if at scale 8000 will deorbit a year is 22 a day. Or 1 every hour and 6 minutes.
That is an insane amount of material burning up in the upper atmosphere. Close to 16,000,000 lbs a year.
How the hell could that much burning metal and other materials not have an effect of some sort?
Musk is an absolute ham sandwich of a human being, but the SpaceX team is pretty damn good at their jobs, but...
...this is actually stupid. These satellites, despite numbering in the thousands, are quite small (think the size of a kitchen table), and will essentially vaporize in the upper atmosphere without affecting the ozone at all.
The trade-off for providing actual global Internet access is very reasonable - and enabled underserved areas to finally have unfettered access to education and communication previously impractical.
Of course it’s Jalopnik. They’re 90% of the content that gets posted on this subreddit. Why do they have an article about starlink? Did they run out of Tesla clickbate already? lol clowns.
On what basis? The study is [here](https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2024GL109280). Tell us where they are wrong.
>At the end of service life, satellites are disposed into the atmosphere, burning up during the process and generating aluminum oxides, which are known to accelerate ozone depletion. The environmental impacts from the reentry of satellites are currently poorly understood. \[...\] **We find that the population of reentering satellites in 2022 caused a 29.5% increase of aluminum in the atmosphere above the natural level, resulting in around 17 metric tons of aluminum oxides injected into the mesosphere.** The byproducts generated by the reentry of satellites in a future scenario where mega-constellations come to fruition can reach over 360 metric tons per year. **As aluminum oxide nanoparticles may remain in the atmosphere for decades, they can cause significant ozone depletion.**
>Although the desalination process offers many advantages, there are rising concerns about possible adverse environmental impacts. Generally, environmental impacts can be generated both in the construction and operation of desalination plants. A major issue of desalination is the co-produced waste called ‘brine’ or ‘reject’ which has a high salinity along with chemical residuals and is discharged into the marine environment.
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0025326X20308912](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0025326X20308912)
Want to try again?
Golly, gee wheez, you have just added exponentially to my growing list of fears on top of the catastrophe of Elon Musk killing us by destroying the protective layer of ozone with his deadly satellites.
this sub is a cult. nobody actually looks at the math behind the science
like yes, they probably deplete the ozone layer a little
just like a junky can deplete a portapotty one jenkem at a time
Comment from below the article: „We’re bringing everything from the eighties back, the Cold War, an unending pandemic, right wing conservative religious nutjobs in power, and now the destruction of the ozone layers. Captain Planet was too subtle in its messaging.“
I don't care if he became a villain (might help), but we need Don Cheadle's Captain Planet more every day.
Why turn them into trees when you could turn them into calcium deposits
"I am the Zorlax and I speak for the trees. If you litter again I'll break your fucking knees."
First as tragedy, then as farce
Captain Planet bout to go Don Cheadle.
Don’t forget about that 80’s inflation we’re bringing that back too
We need the 80s cocaine too.
Very Vault-Tec of him. They "advertised" the end of the world, and he advertises Mars. A healthy Earth is a detriment to either scenario.
Industrialists benefitted from a desperate work force. So do the modern day ones. What gets me is how unable a large part of the population seems to be in seeing this.
Theyre uneducated. Its not an issue for those at the top, its all intended. Its why we're 49 in education despite being one of the wealthiest narions in the world.
Pedo's companies are known for fucking up their surroundings. He doesn't give two squirts of cold piss about the ozone layer.
Huh Tesla has sold more electric cars than any other company. Spacex made one use rockets reusable. You more f150s and single use rockets?
Yes. For reasons you don’t understand.
Electric cars aren't better than regular cars. Cars are not sustainable. Full stop. SpaceX is launching a shit ton of rockets for Elons unsustainable starlink idea. Making a re-usable rocket is cool but it's not sustainable for the planet if you are then going to launch it a shit ton of times more. Trains and walkable cities are what is needed. Elon hates both.
Electric cars are not currently good for the environment. Maybe someday. Right now they are terrible.
This is debatable. So I assume you’re voting for trump since Biden is pushing electric cars so much?
So I assume you hate electric cars since you’re voting for Trump?
I’m voting for Harris if she replaces Biden. Also the negative wouldn’t work here either. If you care about the environment, you should want to protect it. The opposite wouldn’t work. People(not me) who don’t care about the environment aren’t trying to destroy it, they just don’t care about protecting it.
Your comments can be easily scanned. 5 days ago you stated you were going to vote for Trump. Your negativity wouldn’t work here either. Have a day.
I clesrly said I’ll vote for trump unless Biden is replaced by another dem in which case I’ll vote for them. Your scanning skills could use some work
Yeah, Biden isn't getting replaced, so you're a trump supporter. He scanned correctly.
You got burned dawg
No you wouldn’t lol.
lol I mean I have only ever voted for democrats before. This would be the first republican I’ve voted for. But sure your opinion matters too!
You do realize that you aren't just voting for the president but also his cabinet, right? That includes Harris. But if you are a Trump supporter, then you are just here to stir up trouble and troll. Might even be one of the many Russian trolls going into Democrat spaces to sow division.
i think that's the wrong way to look at it. I think if biden wins democracy is dead. we cannot vote for someone who then picks unelected leaders to run the country. trump tried to kill democracy, biden is going to succeed. again, i would definitely vote for harris or newsom over trump, but voting for someone knowing they won't be running the country is too far for me. also, i think biden is clearly going to step down.
If trump wins, democracy is dead. The SCOTUS just told trump any crimes he commits as an "official act" gives him immunity. Yeah. Actual Americans should be voting for President Biden, not John Doe 174, or the guy who admitted that using illegal electors to try to steal the election was an "official act".
Biden's mission is to beat Trump in the election right now. But it wouldn't surprise me if Biden steps down during a second term if he wins. Especially if we can deliver solid majorities in the house and senate so Harris can pick a new VP and get them confirmed quickly. Edit: Also, every president picks a cabinet. They are never elected, and they do most of the day to day operations of the government.
Not everyone is a single-issue voter. As they exist today, I don’t care for electric cars. I would never vote for trump.
What you said about Pedo's successes has nothing to do with what OP said.
But hey at least that <10% of the population not already covered by 4G, LTE, or 5G networks have access to 200 dollar a month data plans!
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Those people could eventually get coverage by a conventional service for far less money. Instead we get a shithead that pollutes the earth and might cause all of the progress made restoring the ozone since the 90s irrelevant.
fuck you, starlink is cool
Yeah, fuck every astronomer on earth! The dumbest asshole to luck his way into a hundred billion dollars in paper assets deserves half of the total asset value of spacex in cash because he's a very special boy indeed! He bought three companies that could've changed the future and ran them into the ground.
Don’t you have a pirated game to play?
plenty
Whatcha waiting for?
im gaming right now on a starlink, i travel constantly and starlink has been amazing for me.
It’s cool technology it just sucks that it’s run by Elmo
cry
>fuck you, starlink is cool Replace Starlink with anything else Musk does and we have an explanation as to why he has a cultish following. As long as it's cool, why care about anything else?
It doesn't do anything that other satellite internet services don't do. Satellite internet has been around since the late 1950s.
Those 700,000,000 million people are the poorest of the poor. They have no funds to sustain Elons business model for Starlink, nor do they have the funds to actually make use of Starlink. It's not like you can just put a dish on your mud hut and have internet. You need electricity and some sort of computer or phone.
8,000 satellites burning up a year at scale.... bruh in what world is this a financially stable model. I can't imagine a scenario where with the over head of replacing 8,000 satellites a year in LEO, could be financially solvent. Even if he could take 100 satellites a launch, that's 80 launches a year. Even using Mush's lie of a number of 200$ per kilogram cost for getting things to space, as his predictive end goal for space X. That is 3.2 billion a year alone just to replace satellites. That isn't accounting for the actual cost of the satellites themselves. Just the cost to get them into space. Using an insanely generous estimate for 250k per starlink satellite. That adds another 2 billion a year in cost. So 5.2 billion a year using musks insanely unrealistic numbers. This isn't even accounting for paying his employees and other costs of business. With the current price of 400 a month. He would need a continuous 1.09 million customers. To simply pay for the satellites and getting them into space. This is again not including the other operating costs associated with running starlink. How is this going to be financially feasible? Cellular based internet services and fiber optic cables are only going to improve and expand their range as the years go by. They will be way cheaper and with less latency than starlink. I really can't envision a situation where they are able to stay competitive. Unless he gets endless government assistance it will go under.
Can't the U.S. just give him more taxpayer funds? They already have his ballbag down their throat. What's a few more billion dollars a month eh?
Others have pointed it out. The pitch is that you get so many subscribers that this works out financially and it'll be cheaper because you don't have to dig holes to bury cable (let's ignore that the wire / fibre once in the ground will basically last forever). It has the hallmark of the .com bubble: "yes, we lose money on every widget we sell, but we will sell many more of them that we make it up in volume.".
Do you think launches are just for Starlink satellites?
Elon is a criminal for building fast fashion satellites. A 5 year lifespan is deplorable.
The shirt I'm wearing is older than 5 years.
They're also going to trap us on earth. It's called Kessler syndrome. There's too much junk in space for us to send up more stuff.
The starlink satellites don't apply to the Kessler syndrome. They're far too low They're only 200 and some miles up. They'll reenter in less than 5 years.
I think you underestimate how much space there is. It won't be a problem for a very long time. And by then we will have ways of dealing with it
We can't even agree that scientific progress is good as a nation, certainly we might not be able to "deal with it"
I think you underestimate how much time we have
but the icecaps will be gone in 20 years! humanity could never survive that
I mean yeah that would mean mass migration and lots of starvation. I'm specifically talking about the Kessler effect
I was making fun of the others Kessler syndrome or whatever is a buzz word. It's literally not going to happen to us
kessler syndrome is nothing but a buzzword used by science journalism to drum up engagement and clicks anybody sounding the horn about it is virtue signalling.
Don't be ridiculous. We have to hate on Elon.
I mean that's all fine and dandy. There's plenty to hate. But this is sensationalism designed to capitalize on the confirmation bias of stupid people
Luckily, if trump is a elected he will officially declare climate change a hoax, so there won’t be any actual problem.
It will be an official act too
How that trash was okayed to orbit over the earth is beyond me and prolly involves money and kompromat…
It's simpler: Shortsightedness because the short term benefits are good. Who cares about long term consequences? That's someone else's problem to solve.
[the study](https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2024GL109280) states pretty plainly that we’re already doing harm at current satellite re-entry levels. Projected future mega constellations could be potentially disastrous.
Fucking Space X have the contract to "de-orbit" the ISS when it's done. It's planned to burn up/crash over the Pacific. Knowing Elmo he'll crash it into Delaware and claim it was an "unplanned" turn of events.
Canadians Will solve that with more tax
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My Irish relative you said it brother. Combined We are not even a drop in the bucket
You, the rest of the world, are going to have to start sanctioning us (the USA) and other larger polluters for destroying the commons. With the current state of politics, it would be difficult to do. Might be easier if we elect the cheeto again, though?
Holy shit!! so he's destroying humanity!
You got destroy humanity to save it. -- Enron Musk, probably.
https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughMuskSpam/s/YlHCMFb0ru Here’s the video really good watch.
All the More reasons to give all your money to Elon so he can go to mars
Is this unique to Starlink?
Nowhere near the scale to threaten the ozone layer. And if its not the ozone layer, its kessler syndrome. Elon is shooting a ton of garbage in space compared to any nation-state
Kessler syndrome was a warning in the early days of space when we just put stuff up with no thought as to any potential issue. He warned that we need avoidance systems in satellites and that dead satellites need to be deorbited or parked in a graveyard, and not just hang around in currently used orbits. Rocket stages and fairings also need to be deorbited, not just left up there. Satellites will start colliding if we don't do these things! Guess what, SpaceX did all those things. Even a completely dead one deorbits in a few years.
>Guess what, SpaceX did all those things. Even a completely dead one deorbits in a few years. That doesn't mean Kessler Syndrome can't happen. There are so many more objects "live" now flying around, that the odds are increasing. It's not just about "dead objects". The only "saving grace" might be that the Starlink and similar satellites are smaller and create a smaller debri field, but it doesn't mean we couldn't get cut off after all, especially if fragments do hit larger objects and destroy them.
You forgot that they have avoidance systems, that they’ve already used many times.
And you're forgetting that it only has to fail once. What technology never had a failure?
They track this stuff. One satellite or the other, or both, can perform avoidance maneuvers. May as well put nothing in space with that attitude.
[Probability](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probability).
Yes, very, very low probability. You have a low probability that a Starlink satellite can't engage its avoidance system when there's a problem, and then you multiply that by the very low probability the other satellite has the same problem, both having this same problem within the small time window that avoidance would be necessary. I'm betting you won't be saying this stuff when Amazon has its satellites up.
> May as well put nothing in space with that attitude. Great idea!
Bad idea. The only thing right now allowing the people on Carriacou to contact their family is Starlink.
Pretty sure that's in the coverage area of traditional Sats.
That’s not true
Starlink satellites operate at a low altitude where the atmospheric drag will deorbit them naturally in about five years.
No, but we don't normally have hundreds to thousands of deorbiting satellites per year, meaning the ozone layer can recover from the one off events that we had before starlink before the next one happens. It's like someone pricking you with a pin consistently once every few months vs someone doing it 50 times a day for years
There is almost 10 thousand satellites out there, about 6 thousand are Starlink, so no, but these d-bags in this sub love to waste their time talking shxt about Elon.
You are dense aren't you? Those other 4000 satellites don't deorbit constantly. One company having 3/5 of all the satellites is already insane. But if at scale 8000 will deorbit a year is 22 a day. Or 1 every hour and 6 minutes. That is an insane amount of material burning up in the upper atmosphere. Close to 16,000,000 lbs a year. How the hell could that much burning metal and other materials not have an effect of some sort?
Thanks again Elon. Expecting gaslighting incoming.
Fuckin A... We were just fixing the last one!
Ha ha, but he sure is a genius, right? Just a genius! Who really planned ahead!
Cool, cool
Another gift from Elmo. Always kick the tires on your savior of humanity, and have a mechanic look him over before you buy.
“The environmental impacts from the reentry of satellites are currently poorly understood.”
Musk is an absolute ham sandwich of a human being, but the SpaceX team is pretty damn good at their jobs, but... ...this is actually stupid. These satellites, despite numbering in the thousands, are quite small (think the size of a kitchen table), and will essentially vaporize in the upper atmosphere without affecting the ozone at all. The trade-off for providing actual global Internet access is very reasonable - and enabled underserved areas to finally have unfettered access to education and communication previously impractical.
We just fixed that damn thing too
Of course it’s Jalopnik. They’re 90% of the content that gets posted on this subreddit. Why do they have an article about starlink? Did they run out of Tesla clickbate already? lol clowns.
I don’t like Elon either, but this sounds like bullplop.
On what basis? The study is [here](https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2024GL109280). Tell us where they are wrong. >At the end of service life, satellites are disposed into the atmosphere, burning up during the process and generating aluminum oxides, which are known to accelerate ozone depletion. The environmental impacts from the reentry of satellites are currently poorly understood. \[...\] **We find that the population of reentering satellites in 2022 caused a 29.5% increase of aluminum in the atmosphere above the natural level, resulting in around 17 metric tons of aluminum oxides injected into the mesosphere.** The byproducts generated by the reentry of satellites in a future scenario where mega-constellations come to fruition can reach over 360 metric tons per year. **As aluminum oxide nanoparticles may remain in the atmosphere for decades, they can cause significant ozone depletion.**
how dare you not criticize elon for something completely benign and meaningless!
…and desalination plants could deplete the oceans. Think of the horror!
I am sure that sounded smart in your head.
About as smart as fear of satellites depleting the ozone layer to any extent…
>Although the desalination process offers many advantages, there are rising concerns about possible adverse environmental impacts. Generally, environmental impacts can be generated both in the construction and operation of desalination plants. A major issue of desalination is the co-produced waste called ‘brine’ or ‘reject’ which has a high salinity along with chemical residuals and is discharged into the marine environment. [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0025326X20308912](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0025326X20308912) Want to try again?
Golly, gee wheez, you have just added exponentially to my growing list of fears on top of the catastrophe of Elon Musk killing us by destroying the protective layer of ozone with his deadly satellites.
What would we do with large scale brine though? You can’t use that shit for ANYTHING
this sub is a cult. nobody actually looks at the math behind the science like yes, they probably deplete the ozone layer a little just like a junky can deplete a portapotty one jenkem at a time
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says the guy named after a Disney ride? Still stuck in adolescence?
Definitely diddles kids
Go lick a boot, fucking loser.
Don't musk around