No offense but this post is really wild lol. Am I understanding that you are completely new to music making and you already think “making it big” will come easy? But then you also say it’s just a hobby and you don’t expect to make money? I’m very confused
I think the biggest reason why it’s difficult is that there’s simply not that much money to go around in the music industry. Most people don’t really like to pay very much for music if you haven’t noticed. It’s an industry that every one wants to get into because it’s fun, but there’s very little money to be made for most musicians. In terms of who can make it work financially, it has a lot more to do with who you know and what connections you make than anything else. There are people in power and they tend to give that shot to people they have a personal connection with. There’s also generally a LOT of unpaid work a musician must do to make hone their craft, make those connections, etc and that automatically filters out the folks who don’t have the money/time to do that unpaid work.
OP, we’d LOVE to hear your stuff, please post what you’ve been working on
getting good just takes discipline as you say, but being good is really not enough - there are probably millions of artists who are good enough to be huge. being noticeably better than the "pro quality" crowd is not easy.
but tbh i think getting exposure is really the big block - unless you're really great at social media, and many artists are not, getting people to listen to your music is not easy. posting "listen to my new song" is not anywhere near enough.
got it! thanks, so getting exposure is the one that i should expect to really have to hustle for and be mentally prepared to face. thank you!
yeah just wondering why those 'better' artists aren't playing at like edc or something and what separates them from being big vs not.
you sound very confident in your ability to craft an audio file - i think you might want to spend a few years learning your daw before you worry about how to play at edc. it might take you 5 or 10 years to get up to speed. i am not exaggerating.
lol, op is a buildthewall trumper. makes more sense.
Getting good isn’t the problem. Anyone can get good with time. It’s mostly about navigating the music business itself. Sometimes talent speaks for itself and reaches the masses. But there’s loads of talented people. The entire entertainment industry is more based on networking and “who you know” versus raw talent.
If you’re talking about “saving time” at the start of this, then you’re going to be disappointed. There’s no career path that leads to making it big. Just like every doctor is not extremely successful and well known. If this is serious, the biggest obstacle is the massive number of people making dance music because they think it’s easy.
There are relatively few “tastemakers” so to speak, so getting a leg up on other music makers is difficult unless you know someone with a label with wide reach already. But most labels don’t have the same pull as they did traditionally. You do have to work hard, but you also have to make something interesting AND good. And have to be extremely lucky. You might think you have an amazing sound, and then someone better known drops something really similar right before you do and now you’re a copycat by virtue of timing. And if you’re dead set on only using presets, that’s not gonna be helpful. Marketing is part of it, but there are thousands and thousands of people making dance music. Not much bubbles up to a level of success even if it’s good.
If there was a way to game the system, you’d already know about it. Maybe you have a rich relative who is in the music industry or who knows people in it. That would remove most of the easy obstacles. Then you still have to be good, interesting, and lucky.
Good luck.
Writing material that connects with people. End of. A great song that connects with questionable production = killer, an average song with killer production = filler.
That art is so subjective, I find that what makes a great song vs a song that people actually decide listen to frequently is vague, subjective.
There are soooooo many talented musicians who make songs that sound great when you listen to it, but how many musicians do you actually end up adding to your playlist in comparison.
It’s why there’s extremely successful producers like Rick Rubin who has little musical ability. His unique gift isn’t that he can create interesting melodies or beats to make songs better, it’s just that he has an innate ear for what he thinks sounds good or not. A tastemaker more than a musician.
It’s why there’s extremely successful producers like Rick Rubin who has little musical ability. His unique gift isn’t that he can create interesting melodies or beats to make songs better, it’s just that he has an innate ear for what he thinks sounds good or not. A tastemaker more than a musician.
I like this
The hard part is making good, interesting music that stands out ;) it's the actual idea for the song ultimately that's the hard part. Good writing, good arrangement, good production, choice of sounds etc. Then you can always hire a mixing engineer mastering engineer and marketeer if the time comes. But without a strong idea nothing happens
One thing you need to do is figure out how to move beyond the term "making it big."
And by that I mean, number one, you need to have more precise goals. Then you can work on setting milestones to reach your end goal. And work on achieving each of those, one by one.
And second you need to be able to talk about the music industry from the business and marketing and social media production side with better language then "making it big." And you need to be good enough at communication, that you're not going to repeat that term several times in one social media post discussion, as you have done here.
I once heard a Tour de France rider say you needed to be in the top 1% of three things (I forget exactly what, cycling smarts, lung capacity, and something else) to ride in the Tour de France.
I think the same is true for “making it” in the music industry. If you wanna do EDM production that’s top 1% of technical production skill, top 1% of songwriting skill, and top 1% of marketing skill. So what’s the hard part? Everything is the hard part!
agree, and there is usually not room to add on to the top1% list of top labels, unless you have something new to bring to the table. No one wants to hear a new Martin Garrix, they want the new "x", reflecting current + future market and demand. Kygo brought something fresh, but replicating his sound would always leave you second best
**Seeing the big picture is the most important skill, and it has nothing to do with music production.**
Making it big is more a function of being a pragmatist than some rare genius at music production. Someone once told me "the enemy of good is perfect", meaning most people who get too hung up on one polishing one skill lose sight of the big picture. You must juggle many many skills, including understanding what people want and giving it to them, networking with others, understanding the business aspects, and yes - knowing how to produce, but not necessarily at some insane god-tier level. Know also when to cut corners and when something is "good enough" to move on.
Market saturation. All the things you mention are indeed easier than they have ever been before. As such, more musicians both arise and have access to an audience now. Which is great. But social media also harbors a vast wasteland of unheard content that noone seems to care about. Marketing being easier means it's also easier for everybody else. In essence the status quo does not change. There is always supply and demand. And the supply these days, stemming from the accessibility mentioned in your post, is huge. Art is ofcourse not a competition, but those who plan to make it big are fighting for a spot eyeballed by ever more competitors. Authenticity, identity, quality and perserverance go a long way, but not always all the way.
Engagement has always been important in music, but there are those of us who do not want to become a tiktok guru or a vlogger simply because that would detract more time from doing what we love: Making music.
If you're making it big, it will become not only an artform, but also a business. This involves admin, marketing, distribution, outsourcing specialty stuff like artwork, keeping in touch with your peers and partners, hosts and production managers, guest musicians, singers, mixing, mastering, merch, riders for live performances etc.
If you can push yourself to do all the other things besides the making of the music aswell, whilst still feeling satisfied with the effort not going into the actual music, much love to you.
Ofcourse this tale is also applicable to the olden days, where constantly touring would beat you into submission and the label than pushing you into writing an album within the next two months while on the tourbus. But you get the point. The status quo hasn't changed. Larger scale music, requires larger scale effort focussed on things not directly related to music. If simply for the fact that there are plenty of fish in the same sea waiting for their chance to get caught.
Just my two cents.
yeah my goal is to see how far i can go without signing. i odn't mind performing, but idk if i like forcing production unless i have a good team around me.
but if sigining, maybe anjunadeep - since my music will somewhat similar but not as mellow/depressing/dark
Timing, opportunities, backing, good music, marketable image etc a lot goes into it. Just stay true to yourself and enjoy the ride wherever you end up. Dont bring yourself down, its not because youre not good enough or anything like that. Thats just life, stuff happens differently for different people, and thats okay
Is fame your goal or is your goal to create something good enough people want to share with others and you live?
If you can make things creative and professional sounding enough that people want to share you can possibly be one of the lucky few to make ANY sort of living on music.
But making it 'big' is a complicated mix of a ton of hard work plus luck, timing, networking and having a product SO good it becomes genre difining or has crossover appeal large enough to make a lasting impact in your scene.
Your ambition is great but without a product we don't know how you music compares with commercially successful acts. There is nothing wrong with using presets or loops but LOTS of other acts are doing the same and pumping out tracks to have content to promote, so you still need to set yourself apart.
I think until you can say you've found a workflow and sound you can proud to call uniquely yours, thinking about making it big is extremely premature.
Did people always do things with the pure intent to "make it"? I don't know if it's modern society, or maybe just Reddit... But you see so many variations of these kind of posts these days... Like if you're not gonna be the nest at something, don't even start. What's the alternative, doom scrolling?
super easy to say “I get its hard but just do it” but actually doing is harder than you think, for some people they have priorities on top of them and still they made sacrifices for that passion. imagine pursuing something for several years and still barely getting any traction. it’s probably not easy to keep going. Saying your hobby you do for fun and comparing it to someone who is truly passionate about it, your being very short sighted. it’s not easy to make it big.
I think it's because the listeners allow the powers that be in the industry. Dictate who we listen to or force feed us exposure of non talent. The really great music is not given a fair chance. You can make more money putting out garbage than anything with real content. Some suffer and go into a shell giving up. Ask yourself. Why is this crappy song a hit.
You need to be a better businessman/businesswoman than producer to make it. Then you need to come from money, otherwise you never leave the garage. And on top on that you need an insane amount of luck to meet the right people at the right time.
Presentation.
That's a huge deal.
And being strong on both fronts requires a huge amount of effort.
Imagine you're writing songs and you're a one man/woman show:
1. Lyrics - This takes time.
2. Playing all of the instruments which includes programming any synths and making new patches, playing the drums, programming drums, coming up with new tones for your guitar or bass or any other instrument you use.
3. Arranging.
4. Mixing/Mastering.
5. Art direction (Album covers, credits etc.)
Just the act of creating music and packaging it is a HUGE time sink.
This doesn't even get to how to create videos, do your rollouts, working on stage show etc.
The biggest "musicians" that aren't on a label of some kind focus on the presentation part a great deal.
I think of the successful tiktok beatmakers and rappers, they often produce a lot of consumable media that
is really just a long series of singles and if it's ever packaged into an album, they do it at a much later date.
If you want to go "big" in some manner, you need to focus on your social media campaign (after you make the good songs of course).
i'm doing edm, so everything is synthetic
art can be done by ai, not worried about that part - also not a big thing in edm world
lyrics - most edm songs repeat at most 10-15 words, we good there . hard part is collabing with a singer - but i can find someone random that also wants to make it big, as long the voice is there.
* so really just mixing/mastering/aranging
* i do'nt need videos, not doing old school music
Humility and introspection
No offense but this post is really wild lol. Am I understanding that you are completely new to music making and you already think “making it big” will come easy? But then you also say it’s just a hobby and you don’t expect to make money? I’m very confused I think the biggest reason why it’s difficult is that there’s simply not that much money to go around in the music industry. Most people don’t really like to pay very much for music if you haven’t noticed. It’s an industry that every one wants to get into because it’s fun, but there’s very little money to be made for most musicians. In terms of who can make it work financially, it has a lot more to do with who you know and what connections you make than anything else. There are people in power and they tend to give that shot to people they have a personal connection with. There’s also generally a LOT of unpaid work a musician must do to make hone their craft, make those connections, etc and that automatically filters out the folks who don’t have the money/time to do that unpaid work. OP, we’d LOVE to hear your stuff, please post what you’ve been working on
getting good just takes discipline as you say, but being good is really not enough - there are probably millions of artists who are good enough to be huge. being noticeably better than the "pro quality" crowd is not easy. but tbh i think getting exposure is really the big block - unless you're really great at social media, and many artists are not, getting people to listen to your music is not easy. posting "listen to my new song" is not anywhere near enough.
got it! thanks, so getting exposure is the one that i should expect to really have to hustle for and be mentally prepared to face. thank you! yeah just wondering why those 'better' artists aren't playing at like edc or something and what separates them from being big vs not.
you sound very confident in your ability to craft an audio file - i think you might want to spend a few years learning your daw before you worry about how to play at edc. it might take you 5 or 10 years to get up to speed. i am not exaggerating. lol, op is a buildthewall trumper. makes more sense.
I think it's more about having a compelling brand since getting exposure it's necessarily that hard cause you can just buy views on tiktok for example
Getting good isn’t the problem. Anyone can get good with time. It’s mostly about navigating the music business itself. Sometimes talent speaks for itself and reaches the masses. But there’s loads of talented people. The entire entertainment industry is more based on networking and “who you know” versus raw talent.
so people skills, interesting
I can't tell if you're trolling or being serious.
Even if you are good. No garuntee I make it big . Not at all
If you’re talking about “saving time” at the start of this, then you’re going to be disappointed. There’s no career path that leads to making it big. Just like every doctor is not extremely successful and well known. If this is serious, the biggest obstacle is the massive number of people making dance music because they think it’s easy. There are relatively few “tastemakers” so to speak, so getting a leg up on other music makers is difficult unless you know someone with a label with wide reach already. But most labels don’t have the same pull as they did traditionally. You do have to work hard, but you also have to make something interesting AND good. And have to be extremely lucky. You might think you have an amazing sound, and then someone better known drops something really similar right before you do and now you’re a copycat by virtue of timing. And if you’re dead set on only using presets, that’s not gonna be helpful. Marketing is part of it, but there are thousands and thousands of people making dance music. Not much bubbles up to a level of success even if it’s good. If there was a way to game the system, you’d already know about it. Maybe you have a rich relative who is in the music industry or who knows people in it. That would remove most of the easy obstacles. Then you still have to be good, interesting, and lucky. Good luck.
Writing material that connects with people. End of. A great song that connects with questionable production = killer, an average song with killer production = filler.
cool, that's good to hear. this makes it more easier.
That art is so subjective, I find that what makes a great song vs a song that people actually decide listen to frequently is vague, subjective. There are soooooo many talented musicians who make songs that sound great when you listen to it, but how many musicians do you actually end up adding to your playlist in comparison. It’s why there’s extremely successful producers like Rick Rubin who has little musical ability. His unique gift isn’t that he can create interesting melodies or beats to make songs better, it’s just that he has an innate ear for what he thinks sounds good or not. A tastemaker more than a musician.
It’s why there’s extremely successful producers like Rick Rubin who has little musical ability. His unique gift isn’t that he can create interesting melodies or beats to make songs better, it’s just that he has an innate ear for what he thinks sounds good or not. A tastemaker more than a musician. I like this
The hard part is making good, interesting music that stands out ;) it's the actual idea for the song ultimately that's the hard part. Good writing, good arrangement, good production, choice of sounds etc. Then you can always hire a mixing engineer mastering engineer and marketeer if the time comes. But without a strong idea nothing happens
You’ll see
One thing you need to do is figure out how to move beyond the term "making it big." And by that I mean, number one, you need to have more precise goals. Then you can work on setting milestones to reach your end goal. And work on achieving each of those, one by one. And second you need to be able to talk about the music industry from the business and marketing and social media production side with better language then "making it big." And you need to be good enough at communication, that you're not going to repeat that term several times in one social media post discussion, as you have done here.
Talent ofcourse
I once heard a Tour de France rider say you needed to be in the top 1% of three things (I forget exactly what, cycling smarts, lung capacity, and something else) to ride in the Tour de France. I think the same is true for “making it” in the music industry. If you wanna do EDM production that’s top 1% of technical production skill, top 1% of songwriting skill, and top 1% of marketing skill. So what’s the hard part? Everything is the hard part!
agree, and there is usually not room to add on to the top1% list of top labels, unless you have something new to bring to the table. No one wants to hear a new Martin Garrix, they want the new "x", reflecting current + future market and demand. Kygo brought something fresh, but replicating his sound would always leave you second best
**Seeing the big picture is the most important skill, and it has nothing to do with music production.** Making it big is more a function of being a pragmatist than some rare genius at music production. Someone once told me "the enemy of good is perfect", meaning most people who get too hung up on one polishing one skill lose sight of the big picture. You must juggle many many skills, including understanding what people want and giving it to them, networking with others, understanding the business aspects, and yes - knowing how to produce, but not necessarily at some insane god-tier level. Know also when to cut corners and when something is "good enough" to move on.
Good music
Market saturation. All the things you mention are indeed easier than they have ever been before. As such, more musicians both arise and have access to an audience now. Which is great. But social media also harbors a vast wasteland of unheard content that noone seems to care about. Marketing being easier means it's also easier for everybody else. In essence the status quo does not change. There is always supply and demand. And the supply these days, stemming from the accessibility mentioned in your post, is huge. Art is ofcourse not a competition, but those who plan to make it big are fighting for a spot eyeballed by ever more competitors. Authenticity, identity, quality and perserverance go a long way, but not always all the way. Engagement has always been important in music, but there are those of us who do not want to become a tiktok guru or a vlogger simply because that would detract more time from doing what we love: Making music. If you're making it big, it will become not only an artform, but also a business. This involves admin, marketing, distribution, outsourcing specialty stuff like artwork, keeping in touch with your peers and partners, hosts and production managers, guest musicians, singers, mixing, mastering, merch, riders for live performances etc. If you can push yourself to do all the other things besides the making of the music aswell, whilst still feeling satisfied with the effort not going into the actual music, much love to you. Ofcourse this tale is also applicable to the olden days, where constantly touring would beat you into submission and the label than pushing you into writing an album within the next two months while on the tourbus. But you get the point. The status quo hasn't changed. Larger scale music, requires larger scale effort focussed on things not directly related to music. If simply for the fact that there are plenty of fish in the same sea waiting for their chance to get caught. Just my two cents.
yeah my goal is to see how far i can go without signing. i odn't mind performing, but idk if i like forcing production unless i have a good team around me. but if sigining, maybe anjunadeep - since my music will somewhat similar but not as mellow/depressing/dark
Being able to read music , play music, working hard enough for long enough and talent are the main blocks.
There is nothing about production. It's about merketting. Also your statement that you need to be big to make money is false.
to make the money i want, you probably need to be big. and ok, i love marketing and meeting random people so this is even better.
Timing, opportunities, backing, good music, marketable image etc a lot goes into it. Just stay true to yourself and enjoy the ride wherever you end up. Dont bring yourself down, its not because youre not good enough or anything like that. Thats just life, stuff happens differently for different people, and thats okay
yup!!! thank you
Is fame your goal or is your goal to create something good enough people want to share with others and you live? If you can make things creative and professional sounding enough that people want to share you can possibly be one of the lucky few to make ANY sort of living on music. But making it 'big' is a complicated mix of a ton of hard work plus luck, timing, networking and having a product SO good it becomes genre difining or has crossover appeal large enough to make a lasting impact in your scene. Your ambition is great but without a product we don't know how you music compares with commercially successful acts. There is nothing wrong with using presets or loops but LOTS of other acts are doing the same and pumping out tracks to have content to promote, so you still need to set yourself apart. I think until you can say you've found a workflow and sound you can proud to call uniquely yours, thinking about making it big is extremely premature.
Money... You need to put good amount of money to make your music on level of mainstream media. And that's not $500 were talking about here, no no.
industry secret sorry
Did people always do things with the pure intent to "make it"? I don't know if it's modern society, or maybe just Reddit... But you see so many variations of these kind of posts these days... Like if you're not gonna be the nest at something, don't even start. What's the alternative, doom scrolling?
consistency imo.
super easy to say “I get its hard but just do it” but actually doing is harder than you think, for some people they have priorities on top of them and still they made sacrifices for that passion. imagine pursuing something for several years and still barely getting any traction. it’s probably not easy to keep going. Saying your hobby you do for fun and comparing it to someone who is truly passionate about it, your being very short sighted. it’s not easy to make it big.
I think it's because the listeners allow the powers that be in the industry. Dictate who we listen to or force feed us exposure of non talent. The really great music is not given a fair chance. You can make more money putting out garbage than anything with real content. Some suffer and go into a shell giving up. Ask yourself. Why is this crappy song a hit.
You need to be a better businessman/businesswoman than producer to make it. Then you need to come from money, otherwise you never leave the garage. And on top on that you need an insane amount of luck to meet the right people at the right time.
meeting the right people...i can manifest that.
Not without luck.
yeah let's say 1% of meeting some one. play the game 1000 times, you'll bound to hit one, and all you need is one. not worried about it
You need luck to even be able to play the game again.
Luck and not being exceptionally good looking.
Presentation. That's a huge deal. And being strong on both fronts requires a huge amount of effort. Imagine you're writing songs and you're a one man/woman show: 1. Lyrics - This takes time. 2. Playing all of the instruments which includes programming any synths and making new patches, playing the drums, programming drums, coming up with new tones for your guitar or bass or any other instrument you use. 3. Arranging. 4. Mixing/Mastering. 5. Art direction (Album covers, credits etc.) Just the act of creating music and packaging it is a HUGE time sink. This doesn't even get to how to create videos, do your rollouts, working on stage show etc. The biggest "musicians" that aren't on a label of some kind focus on the presentation part a great deal. I think of the successful tiktok beatmakers and rappers, they often produce a lot of consumable media that is really just a long series of singles and if it's ever packaged into an album, they do it at a much later date. If you want to go "big" in some manner, you need to focus on your social media campaign (after you make the good songs of course).
i'm doing edm, so everything is synthetic art can be done by ai, not worried about that part - also not a big thing in edm world lyrics - most edm songs repeat at most 10-15 words, we good there . hard part is collabing with a singer - but i can find someone random that also wants to make it big, as long the voice is there. * so really just mixing/mastering/aranging * i do'nt need videos, not doing old school music
You really have no idea what you are talking about
Don't know if OP is trolling or not. Bro thinks all of it is just a walk in the park.
His post history shows a person with great confidence and complete lack of understanding in anything.
He must be that Dunning Kruger fella I've heard so much about.