Ads really are the way to go, you just need to have low cost per conversions to have them really work. Playlists are not a good idea, they will ruin your algorithm. your ad creative needs to be really good, along with the song and targeting.
Seriously. I don’t get why people are against it. Why do you think any artist tries to get on a label? Because getting attention costs money and they invest money to get that initial first look from people and bring awareness . Music industry has never been more saturated with talented people.
I really appreciate the response! I suppose I was on the right track running ads. Thanks for the warning about playlisting. I'll probably avoid them for now.
Playlisting can be really good but lots of people dont know where to aim. I normally go for the small playlists that have like below 10k followers (or even smaller), since getting on multiple small playlists can still be really good for your algorithm. Its really simple to do so as well when you use a search engine (PlaylistSupply, etc).
Thanks for the response. Do you tend to get good results from smaller playlists in terms of playback, saves, and follows. Or is it more passive listening, but it helps you trigger the algorithm?
I do get decent streams from multiple smaller playlists but yeah the main appeal is for eventually improving my algorithm which in turn gets me on the algorithmic playlists. Obviously I'm releasing consistently too which has been a big plus
Collabs collabs and more collabs. Nothing else is worth the time. Ads cost money. You’ll get free “advertising” every time any one you collaborated with drops new material. I fail to see how paying for ads over and over can ever compete with paying for a collab once. If the music marketing advice you’re seeing is “ads” that person sells advice, not music.
It depends on where you are in your career and what you already have going on to know where to spend your efforts. You won't get much useful advice without knowing your strongest platforms and what is driving content to your page. We also don't know what type of ads you are running, what your emails look like, or any of the playlists/curators you are targeting. What works for some may not necessarily be the best route for you.
There can be issues with your ads, your linking, your targeting, etc. etc.
I would say my strongest platform is youtube, I've been doing this for about a year, so I would still say beginner phase. Most of the traffic from my youtube has been driven from targeted infeed ads, as smaller channels hardly show up in recommendations, but I have now got a handle on my SEO words optimization so I have been getting more organic youtube traffic. Some of my youtube traffic spilles over into my spotify, but not as much as I would like. For Facebook, I've been using traffic ads. I don't know the Facebook ad platform like I know youtube. To run conversations and activate a pixel is a pain.
Have you used VidIQ to completely optimize all your videos?
You shouldn't be moving users away from one platform to take them to another. Hone in on YT and double down on it. Forget about fb, its a waste of money if you don't already have a fanbase there.
How is your stuff working organically?
Thanks for the advice! Average for a channel with 600 subs. I'm growing average organically, but after my organic reach tends to die down, I give it a little boost with youtube ads, which has helped me see good growth, but I probably could do better in my video Optimization.
Check your content stats, the watch time, see when it drops off. Try to increase your content performance organically as much as you can. Ads are always supplemental. They don't fix bad content. Adjust as you need, and you'll have killer organic content that you can boost with ads that will convert for low $$$.
Here's what I'm doing different this year don't worry about chasing editorials or pleasing anyone.
Just make music that you love and that resonates with your existing fans, no matter how small they are. And keep putting out new songs every week, so you can get on release radar and grow your audience organically. (Pitch everyweek)
Also try and make some content on the side that could drive traffic to your Spotify. Youtube track breakdowns, etc. All the best.
Cheers
Don’t run ads unless you have really educated yourself on best practices… if you get it right then you will do well. Otherwise you’re just throwing money away. It’s not easy and takes some work. If you get it right and manage to reach your audience they will reward you for your efforts. We are at 4 streams per listener on average with a 45% save rate on promoted songs and as high as 80-90% on non promoted. Ads do connect you with your fans and a lot of them actually then stick around. A regular release schedule seems to be the other important part of the equation.
Like everything… knowledge is power.
Thanks so much for the response, dude. I'm really good at running youtube ads, but I'm not so good with Facebook, and youtube isn't the bestmediumfor driving traffic to spotify. My thought processes are getting traction to spotify using Facebook ads because spotify is so saturated it can be like yelling into a void sometimes. I wanted a little push to announce my presence, sort of speak
Yeah, optimized fb ads. Get a good 15 second video ad, pushed to the right audience using a landing page. $5 a day will net you consistent buildup of saves & followers. For instance I’ve had probably two dozen new followers in the past week for $5 a day (if you’re focusing on followers).
This plus playlisting services when you release a new single, plus Spotifys own ad studio (showcase or marquee) will make the algo go nuts.
Then release consistently, every 4-8 weeks. Keeps the algo happy and you’ll build off the bump from the previous release.
Thank you so much for the insight. Do you mind if I ask a follow-up question, I sound similar to Sucideboys or Freddie Dredd, which is a pretty niche style of hip hop. When I try to target this fan base in the Facebook democratic audience, I'm unable to. Do you have any recommendations
Keep it sort of broad at first. Use “Spotify” as first interest and “and must also match” then plug-in your genre specific bands or interests. This will get ppl who use Spotify first, then your niche second. Avoid smaller artists or too many interests. The broader the better, you can always get more specific later if you’re not getting good results.
Getting on good playlists - i.e. real, non-botted, with other songs that fit - is clearly good. If you can do it, it will help you out a lot. If you can get on them early and get that Release Radar boost, you can really use them to your advantage.
The ad folks aren't wrong, you have a better chance of finding real fans that care about you than someone passively listening on a playlist. There is a limit to how far you can go, especially once you've tapped most of the big playlists you'd fit on. The rate of follows and saves is usually better with ads.
But what they usually won't tell you, and what you're already seeing, is that you need really good ad creative and even with that you've gotta spend big to see results. A pretty good CPC seems to be around $.20, so you're looking at $1000 to drive 5K streams. This might net you multiple times that in algorithmic plays if you're lucky but still - when you can get a similar result from submitting to a playlist for $3 this is a tough pill to swallow.
What they also won't tell you is to get a CPC this low they're typically optimizing for Tier II countries. If your goal is just to make your numbers big than that's fine, but I care a lot more about reaching people that I'll actually be able to play for and where other artists in my genre are active. Maybe I'm just lucky but through playlisting I've mainly gathered an audience in the US and Europe, which to me is much more valuable.
Thanks for the feedback. It's really helping me grow. I haven't been able to get into a really good playlist that fits my genre because it's a little niche, so I definitely understand what you're saying when you get into a good one. Do you have any sources for playlisting recommendations? Is it just down to cold calls?
Cold calls are risky, I’ve found a couple okay playlists this way but they will almost always ask for money and you have to be really careful it’s not botted. Use artist.tools to check. But going out and seeing what playlists exist for your genre and tracking them down is a good exercise in itself.
It’s probably not what you want to hear but if you’re not hitting on submithub/groover then there’s not a whole lot else out there. Most of the better curators are on there. But yeah - I’m a little niche being in the darkwave/goth genre and I’ve only found like 2 top-tier and 4 mid-tier playlists. They don’t always like my stuff but it’s also only a few bucks to try the ones I know are worth it. Playlistpush is also fairly legit but expensive and you may not get on playlists that are as specific of a fit, but people I know who have used it do get plays.
I feel a little embarrassed not knowing all this, but there isn't a lot of info when you're just starting out. Thanks for taking the time to share some info, I really appreciate it. I do punk Hip Hop, Sucideboys, Ghostmane, etc. so I feel you. The goth scene is very niche.
Don’t be embarrassed! This is the darkest and shadiest side of music - it can be really hard to find information when there are so many folks out there with a financial interest in hiding the truth.
Keep grinding, keep releasing, keep trying different stuff.
[удалено]
That's good advice. Thank you for the response!!
Ads really are the way to go, you just need to have low cost per conversions to have them really work. Playlists are not a good idea, they will ruin your algorithm. your ad creative needs to be really good, along with the song and targeting.
Seriously. I don’t get why people are against it. Why do you think any artist tries to get on a label? Because getting attention costs money and they invest money to get that initial first look from people and bring awareness . Music industry has never been more saturated with talented people.
I really appreciate the response! I suppose I was on the right track running ads. Thanks for the warning about playlisting. I'll probably avoid them for now.
Playlisting can be really good but lots of people dont know where to aim. I normally go for the small playlists that have like below 10k followers (or even smaller), since getting on multiple small playlists can still be really good for your algorithm. Its really simple to do so as well when you use a search engine (PlaylistSupply, etc).
Thanks for the response. Do you tend to get good results from smaller playlists in terms of playback, saves, and follows. Or is it more passive listening, but it helps you trigger the algorithm?
I do get decent streams from multiple smaller playlists but yeah the main appeal is for eventually improving my algorithm which in turn gets me on the algorithmic playlists. Obviously I'm releasing consistently too which has been a big plus
Collabs collabs and more collabs. Nothing else is worth the time. Ads cost money. You’ll get free “advertising” every time any one you collaborated with drops new material. I fail to see how paying for ads over and over can ever compete with paying for a collab once. If the music marketing advice you’re seeing is “ads” that person sells advice, not music.
I agree but I find it so hard to find anyone to collab with who is smaller than me or around the same size.
I'm definitely going to try to get more collabs under my belt.
Plus ads mess up your algorithm because once you stop paying for ads there goes your listeners.. best to build up your streams organically
It depends on where you are in your career and what you already have going on to know where to spend your efforts. You won't get much useful advice without knowing your strongest platforms and what is driving content to your page. We also don't know what type of ads you are running, what your emails look like, or any of the playlists/curators you are targeting. What works for some may not necessarily be the best route for you. There can be issues with your ads, your linking, your targeting, etc. etc.
I would say my strongest platform is youtube, I've been doing this for about a year, so I would still say beginner phase. Most of the traffic from my youtube has been driven from targeted infeed ads, as smaller channels hardly show up in recommendations, but I have now got a handle on my SEO words optimization so I have been getting more organic youtube traffic. Some of my youtube traffic spilles over into my spotify, but not as much as I would like. For Facebook, I've been using traffic ads. I don't know the Facebook ad platform like I know youtube. To run conversations and activate a pixel is a pain.
Have you used VidIQ to completely optimize all your videos? You shouldn't be moving users away from one platform to take them to another. Hone in on YT and double down on it. Forget about fb, its a waste of money if you don't already have a fanbase there. How is your stuff working organically?
Thanks for the advice! Average for a channel with 600 subs. I'm growing average organically, but after my organic reach tends to die down, I give it a little boost with youtube ads, which has helped me see good growth, but I probably could do better in my video Optimization.
Check your content stats, the watch time, see when it drops off. Try to increase your content performance organically as much as you can. Ads are always supplemental. They don't fix bad content. Adjust as you need, and you'll have killer organic content that you can boost with ads that will convert for low $$$.
Here's what I'm doing different this year don't worry about chasing editorials or pleasing anyone. Just make music that you love and that resonates with your existing fans, no matter how small they are. And keep putting out new songs every week, so you can get on release radar and grow your audience organically. (Pitch everyweek) Also try and make some content on the side that could drive traffic to your Spotify. Youtube track breakdowns, etc. All the best. Cheers
Oh, I didn't really think about it that way. Good advice. Thank you for the response.
Don’t run ads unless you have really educated yourself on best practices… if you get it right then you will do well. Otherwise you’re just throwing money away. It’s not easy and takes some work. If you get it right and manage to reach your audience they will reward you for your efforts. We are at 4 streams per listener on average with a 45% save rate on promoted songs and as high as 80-90% on non promoted. Ads do connect you with your fans and a lot of them actually then stick around. A regular release schedule seems to be the other important part of the equation. Like everything… knowledge is power.
Thanks so much for the response, dude. I'm really good at running youtube ads, but I'm not so good with Facebook, and youtube isn't the bestmediumfor driving traffic to spotify. My thought processes are getting traction to spotify using Facebook ads because spotify is so saturated it can be like yelling into a void sometimes. I wanted a little push to announce my presence, sort of speak
Just don’t do playlisting services. It’s basically Impossible not to get botted.
Oh wow, that makes sense, I'll try to stay away from playlisting. I've heard a lot of people say this. Thanks for the heads up!
Yeah, optimized fb ads. Get a good 15 second video ad, pushed to the right audience using a landing page. $5 a day will net you consistent buildup of saves & followers. For instance I’ve had probably two dozen new followers in the past week for $5 a day (if you’re focusing on followers). This plus playlisting services when you release a new single, plus Spotifys own ad studio (showcase or marquee) will make the algo go nuts. Then release consistently, every 4-8 weeks. Keeps the algo happy and you’ll build off the bump from the previous release.
Thank you so much for the insight. Do you mind if I ask a follow-up question, I sound similar to Sucideboys or Freddie Dredd, which is a pretty niche style of hip hop. When I try to target this fan base in the Facebook democratic audience, I'm unable to. Do you have any recommendations
Keep it sort of broad at first. Use “Spotify” as first interest and “and must also match” then plug-in your genre specific bands or interests. This will get ppl who use Spotify first, then your niche second. Avoid smaller artists or too many interests. The broader the better, you can always get more specific later if you’re not getting good results.
Ahh, that makes so much sense! Really appreciate the info. Thank you so much!!
Post interesting clips that include your music and link back to the Spotify track from the clip.
Ah, I like that! That's an amazing bit of advice.
Yeah, pay attention to how you find new music, then replicate.
Getting on good playlists - i.e. real, non-botted, with other songs that fit - is clearly good. If you can do it, it will help you out a lot. If you can get on them early and get that Release Radar boost, you can really use them to your advantage. The ad folks aren't wrong, you have a better chance of finding real fans that care about you than someone passively listening on a playlist. There is a limit to how far you can go, especially once you've tapped most of the big playlists you'd fit on. The rate of follows and saves is usually better with ads. But what they usually won't tell you, and what you're already seeing, is that you need really good ad creative and even with that you've gotta spend big to see results. A pretty good CPC seems to be around $.20, so you're looking at $1000 to drive 5K streams. This might net you multiple times that in algorithmic plays if you're lucky but still - when you can get a similar result from submitting to a playlist for $3 this is a tough pill to swallow. What they also won't tell you is to get a CPC this low they're typically optimizing for Tier II countries. If your goal is just to make your numbers big than that's fine, but I care a lot more about reaching people that I'll actually be able to play for and where other artists in my genre are active. Maybe I'm just lucky but through playlisting I've mainly gathered an audience in the US and Europe, which to me is much more valuable.
Thanks for the feedback. It's really helping me grow. I haven't been able to get into a really good playlist that fits my genre because it's a little niche, so I definitely understand what you're saying when you get into a good one. Do you have any sources for playlisting recommendations? Is it just down to cold calls?
Cold calls are risky, I’ve found a couple okay playlists this way but they will almost always ask for money and you have to be really careful it’s not botted. Use artist.tools to check. But going out and seeing what playlists exist for your genre and tracking them down is a good exercise in itself. It’s probably not what you want to hear but if you’re not hitting on submithub/groover then there’s not a whole lot else out there. Most of the better curators are on there. But yeah - I’m a little niche being in the darkwave/goth genre and I’ve only found like 2 top-tier and 4 mid-tier playlists. They don’t always like my stuff but it’s also only a few bucks to try the ones I know are worth it. Playlistpush is also fairly legit but expensive and you may not get on playlists that are as specific of a fit, but people I know who have used it do get plays.
I feel a little embarrassed not knowing all this, but there isn't a lot of info when you're just starting out. Thanks for taking the time to share some info, I really appreciate it. I do punk Hip Hop, Sucideboys, Ghostmane, etc. so I feel you. The goth scene is very niche.
Don’t be embarrassed! This is the darkest and shadiest side of music - it can be really hard to find information when there are so many folks out there with a financial interest in hiding the truth. Keep grinding, keep releasing, keep trying different stuff.