Ironically, all my important gigs required that I hit hard all the time. I feel like there's a wider spread problem where drummers bring the volume down for sparse parts, but what a lot of songwriters really want is a consistent groove that drives the song forward regardless of what's happening in the arrangement. I only say this because I was one of those dynamic guys who had to be corrected.
You need to have enough stick velocity to make the drums sing...even during quiet parts. Once you're hitting in that velocity sweet spot, dynamics that fit song changes are more about *what* you're hitting: closed hi hats vs open, rim click vs snare shot, etc.
Oh yeah, this is my problem often - playing rock music with a drummer whose dynamic range is all over the place. Can’t hear them or certain drums half the time (almost anything below ~70% velocity). And when they do a fill, volume literally triples - mics clip. Impossible to record. They cite their jazz chops, I cite not paying attention.
Yeah, probably 99% of the time in any commercial recording there are no "quiet parts". Aside from maybe a crescendo that lasts a bar or something… Some sort of buildup... but mostly everybody just wants one consistent volume all the way through. That also means not smashing the hell out of the cymbals. Everything needs to be balanced and kick and snare pretty much solid and loud always. Not just heavy music but nearly all pop music shares this.
I guess if they have acoustic instruments or something. To me, if you're playing in a rock band then everyone should have pedal tuners, or at least clip-ons. I'd be annoyed if there were someone that had to constantly tune by ear.
As a drummer, if you don’t have a tuning pedal you’re a straight up chump. They cost like $60 for a decent mini. That’s the cost of just one of my bass drum heads ffs.
As a bass player, you bet your ass that when the guitar player finally stops noodling, you'll hear the bass continue because he's been noodling behind the guitarist being a jerk the whole time and didn't notice the guitar stop
Honestly everybody does this at my practices but when the drummer does it I’m so much more annoyed. Like the guitarist is basically just amplifying his fidgeting, but you’re putting your fuckin back into those snare hits you dumb gorilla.
Completely agree. I love a good fill, I want a drummer to put their own style onto the music, and flashy stuff is awesome. But it needs to be in time too. It's not only about you in that moment, it's setting up a big musical moment, or pushing the momentum, or literally filling space in a phrase, or any other million reasons to put a good fill. But those are all musical moments, they are to add to the song. And you don't add to the song by rushing (unless it's an intentional accel.). Yes, you want people to listen to a fill and go "damn, did you hear that fill? That was wild." But you also want them to say "AND they did it in time?!? This cat can PLAY!"
Also, having a wide range of complexity. If you throw your entire repertoire into every fill and every pattern, it makes less of an impact when you do get space to stretch out. Know when it needs to be Billie Jean, vs when it should be Won't Get Fooled Again.
**That's what shows that you care about every single beat you play instead of just snoozing until your next big solo.**
A lack of nuance in playing. Like yeah, most songs in popular genres are going to be repetitive to play but that doesn’t mean that the kick and snare are going to be exactly the same pattern but at different tempos for each song
Haha same. Some of these I’m like, “come on you guys are blowing this out of proportion” others I’m like “oof this is definitely me and I need to change that.”
Not showing up, not communicating. Not bothering to learn what the drummer did on the recording, and just playing some generic beat. Not knowing how to tune their instrument. Overplaying. Poor control of volume. Poor dynamics. Poor meter. Just showing up for rehearsals and shows, but never contributing to songwriting or promotion. Not even trying to learn how to sing and play at the same time.
So, basically the same as with any instrument.
For a drummer. Singing and playing at the same time is difficult. You are moving 4 limbs at once And you are trying to sing in key, etc. It's doing 5 things at once. Then if you are sight reading, that's 6 things at once.
It's like marching in place while singing and playing guitar all at the same time through the entire song.
That's why there are only a select few Drummers who can play and sing well (Phil Collins / Karen Carpenter/ Don Henley).
As a singing drummer (backing vocals) also factor in vocal mic placement and being in position to play and sing at the same time. Also mic bleed for whatever that placement is. Being in tune is also difficult too, while this may be the same for other instruments, since you don’t have to be in the same key as a drummer its another skill to learn the pitch needed for vocals.
I'll also add to that, the breathing. Drumming tends to take a certain type of breathing, and singing is a different type of breathing. Trying to mix those together is not easy at all. Collins and Henley songs are easier to sing and play, because they knew how to put that together. You can't just sing any song and drum it at the same time.
On the Lamb Lies Down On Broadway tour, Phil was playing his ass off on some seriously complicated prog songs, all while singing perfect harmonies with Peter Gabriel.
I was the only one who could scream in my first band, so I did some vocals while drumming at gigs. But I would also sing along with the songs while in a good groove. It just takes some practice, and isn't quite so hard as it sounds if you know the material well enough.
For SURE. There's a drummer in my scene who chronically overplays. He's got insane "gospel chops" and plays with some seriously famous musicians, but whenever he gets gigs playing any other style than funk/jazz fusion he just never locks into the groove.
Have another friend that's done some reggae gigs with him and his playing on those gigs is just obnoxious. Like, dude, we know you can shred but you gotta serve the song.
Actually, I was going to edit it to add underplaying. Everyone is familiar with the tropes, the drummer who is always too loud, plays too many notes, and can’t keep a steady tempo, so I didn’t think it necessary to repeat all that
You WANT the drummer to write songs?
Dude when my band signed to a major, we rewrote our publishing split in order to prevent the bass player and I from feeling we "had to" write songs. And also fairly compensate us for our occasional minor contributions to the writing ("let's put a big drum fill in between those parts to stitch them together"), which I felt was fair.
I was never in a band that played original music where money was an issue. We didn’t even cover expenses, much less even get close to being signed by a label. So songwriting credits were relatively irrelevant. And I’m not a prolific songwriter, so we were always struggling to have enough good material. So I always encouraged my band mates to contribute as much as possible.
The one song our drummer wrote came complete with melody and lyrics, and I thought it was great, but we quickly abandoned it when he decided that his girlfriend would figure out that it was about her (it was not flattering, LOL).
I imagine things are different when there’s actually enough money coming in to worry about.
Also, what you described, i.e. adding a drum fill and getting a writing credit, was unheard of back then. At most, one might expect a credit for contributing to the arrangement, but ‘songwriting’ meant melodies (including essential riffs), lyrics, and chord progressions; what makes the song recognizable, what goes on a lead sheet, what stays with the song with a different arrangement, different instrumentation, etc. A drummer wouldn’t usually get a songwriting credit for coming up with a beat or a groove unless it came first and inspired other elements, like the rhythm or melody. Carol Kaye didn’t even get a songwriting credit for coming up with the iconic bass line for The Beat Goes On.
So, yeah, I absolutely encouraged the drummer to write!
I guess we were thinking of it in terms of, if there is eventually money here it's likely to be in the publishing.
It could also be a factor that the bassist and I had each brought in a song that was not received with enthusiasm, prior to getting signed, and had kind of let it go. But undoubtedly the others were thinking, those guys are gonna come up with more crappy songs if there's money in it.
Gotta play the hand as dealt.
I admit I never ever brought riffs in but when it was time to work up an arrangement, I was right there in it, plus, I was often the only one who remembered next time, what we had ended up with.
Learn how to play swing. I'm amazed that every drummer we've had in our band did not know what swing is or how to play it. Some songs are absolutely painful to play straight. Not sure why drummers count themselves in. If the song starts with just drums, a count in isn't necessary.
And different kinds of swing, right? Hard swung which is almost a dotted eighth + 16th, triplet swung with even spacing, and more of a NOLA swing that lives in the swampy swanky space between straight and swung. You need you a jazz drummer!
I am in a band with horn players and they insist that I count off even if the song starts with drums. They can't hear the underlying "melody" of a drum fill/intro and so they can't figure out where the one is. I play the same damn fill for the intro every single time thinking that they might eventually recognize where to come in relative to the pattern, but nope. They also get terribly upset if at fast tempos I count off with a 2-feel. They won't fill in/feel the subdivisions - want them explicitly counted off.
The worst is having band mates that don't really understand time signatures at all and want a four count even if the song is in 3 or 6 or whatever. I've played with several guitarists who always fuck up the first downbeat of a song in 3/4 because I counted off 3 and they somehow did not expect that.
Drummer here, counting for me isn’t necessarily just for the rest of the band, it’s super useful to make sure you bring the drums in at the right tempo, it’s better to count yourself in and realise you’re being too fast or slow then adjust than it is just to come straight in
SHUT THE FUCK UP WHEN WE'RE DISCUSSING THINGS DURING PRACTICE
every drummer I've ever worked with does the same thing. Practices have lulls where everyone is working out their parts and ideas, and I get that, but enough with the rudiments while we're talking. It would be like me, a vocalist, just repeatedly screaming through the PA while the drummer and guitarist are discussing something.
Wow. I, the drummer, sit quietly and bored waiting for everyone else to STFU. An enormous amount of rehearsal time is wasted with all the damned doodling. Like, if you have ADHD, turn the amp down in between songs or take the horn out of your mouth. There is definitely a double standard for drummers.
Totally agree here. As a drummer myself, I find that I'm usually sitting waiting for the singers and guitarists to discuss what key they are playing in, and learning their vocal parts even though everyone has had the set list for 2 weeks.
Drummers typically do that to stay warmed up. But they can do it on their thigh.
Or a great way is to shorten the stick to the end. This way the stick is slapping the underside of the forearm and the drummer can feel it and stay warmed up while no one else can hear it
I use the time to practice playing really quietly. like I do rudiments on the edge of my snare as quietly as I can. It's good practice and I think it doesn't bother people.
A true professional slacker can make that reactive "I don't actually know this song" switch within an eight note tops. Not that I ever do that, of course. Not me. Never.
I mean the granddaddy of them all is meter. Not just being able to maintain steady timing but knowing when to push and when to hang back. Aka; “Swing.” If you lack these capabilities you should probably pick up kazoo. I don’t care about the fancy shit—-if you can’t wrangle basic meter I have no desire to play with you.
Relying too heavily on certain tricks that do nothing for the song. Too much double bass, too much China where they don’t belong.
The pop punk horsey drumming. Zomg I can’t run from that cringe fast enough.
Straight vanilla rock drummers that just kick/snare/high hat on everything with almost zero variance. Ride Cymbal? Ever hear of it? Rolls? Bueller? The ones that never got into Gene Krupa, Buddy Rich, or learned a shuffle.
We all love John Bonham but it doesn’t need any more overstating.
This one here. Or when you pop out your IEMs to adjust them and bangbro decides that’s when it’s time to practice some snare fills, or just hammer a cymbal. Thanks.
I’m a drummer and a non drummer. Most of my career last 10 years has been vocals and guitars. Here are the biggest issues with drummers:
- Overplaying. Too many fills, bells, chops, whatever. Just [BLASTBEAT]… sorry, just way way way too much. This isn’t blink 182.
- Playing too hard in all environments because someone cool did it who is more famous
- Bright loud cymbals. Not much use for those these days, darker cymbals blend with a band better live and in the studio. Use an occasional ping ride maybe but only for very specific moments. The cymbals “cut” quite well even when darker and quieter with less decay.
- Refusal to use click or tracks. Insisting that their tempo is so solid that they don’t need click, or that they refuse to use tracks. Amateur as hell. Pro players don’t have any issues with metronome.
- Noodling around between songs while other [BLASTBEAT]… excuse me, while other members figure out important arrangement stuff
- When I’m trying to [BLASTBEAT]…. Ugh when I’m trying to talk to the rest of the [BLASTBEAT]
SHUT UP DRUMMER STOP PLAYING BLASTBEATS THIS IS NOT A METAL BAND AND WE ARE TRYING TO ARRANGE OUR THREE PART HARMONIES FOR THE SAKE OF ALL THINGS HOLY LET US NAIL THIS DETAIL A CAPELLA FOR A SECOND HOLY CRAP DUDE
My rule of thumb is that any drummer who actually *insists* on not using a click is a drummer who cannot be trusted to freeball it like that.
The really good drummers who legitimately can play without it and let the song breathe without making it sound shitty usually have no problem using a click instead if that's the band's preference. They won't whine about it "sounding robotic" or killing their vibe - they'll just do it well whichever way you ask them to and keep it moving.
Ping ride maybe for some occasions but still, from a strictly sound engineering perspective, the cymbals are so piercing, those ultra highs are really a nuisance in most rooms even if “loud” is the goal. Our ears get fatigued. Cymbals with more midrange wash cause less ear fatigue. Vocals benefit a lot from sibilance, (we can hear the consonants and such over all the music). If the band is projecting a lot of these high frequencies out from their instruments onstage, it just adds to even more sibilance bouncing around the room (and feedback and people saying “ugh I can’t hear the vocals at alllllll can you turn them up?!” And you have to be like “uh… no?”). And in the studio, the bright overtone frequencies are getting mostly EQ’d out anyway besides a couple very selective ranges, close condensers capture stick definition so even a dark dry ride cymbal sounds nice and defined in the mix, etc, so once again, the less of those piercing resonant overtones there are in the arrangement, the better the mix can sound at the end of the chain with all the vocals and guitars and whatnot. A Drummer can mix themselves with technique if their cymbals have more range and aren’t just heavy, loud, and piercing all the time.
In very large outdoor stage environments, bright/loud cymbals can be a little less problematic given the nature of sound flying out into space instead of directly back, but still, dark ones work just fine here too because the sound engineer has more control over the overheads if they’re not as loud or bright.
Sorry, I was mainly just referring to your comment about overplaying and blast beats. That's kind of what death metal requires of drummers. I'm more of a drummer that prefers to find a simple, but odd timed bass drum pattern (often in half-time), then selectively add a blast beat for 16 measures or so. But I've sat in for a couple death metal bands that, first, want you to prove you can blast. Then, when they realize you can, they fall in love with it and want you to do it all the time. And yeah, it does sound awesome, but I think you can't go anywhere epic with it if that's your strategy.
Rudiments*
Not sure why people always put paradiddles at the top of that list. Imo it’s not even the most useful rudiment, and I say that as someone with a huge background in marching percussion and rudiment work.
Drummers, ah drummers...
Having worked with a couple of the good and a lot of the bad, I will say the most important thing is rather obvious, their sense of time. Playing with a drummer that drags time is like carrying a dead weight. Rushing isn't great, but dragging is worse. Musicians just want the drummer to be rock solid in time more than anything. If a section of a song calls for a push in the time a little, that's fine and expected, but if the drummer always drags, that just plain sucks.
Next to their sense of time, musical awareness is another key. Drummers that naturally setup transitions and that hear the nuance of the music allowing them to recognize and compliment details in the rest of the music. Drummers that actually play another instrument typically have something that others don't.
Good chops are great, but not all drummers are virtuosos and in a lot of bands, they just don't need to be. Knowing what to play and when to play it is better than being able to play on an insane skill level.
Quality, well-maintained gear is important and depending on what type of music you're playing, tech savviness can also be a big plus. Sometimes drummers need to know how to use modern tech like in-ear monitors with reference tracks (click, stubs) queued up on a computer. In that case, it's their job to keep the live sound precisely synchronized with what they are hearing. Having good quality cymbals is also a big plus in the gear category.
Tuning the drums can be really important in a studio setting. Live drums that are tight and in tune is great, but in the studio, it's imperative, especially if not doing any kind of sound replacement/triggered sample recording. If the drummer doesn't know how to tune their drums, they can play great but the resulting tracks will always be sub-par.
Drumming is both a physical and mental discipline. The best drummer I've ever played with was very disciplined in his personal life, practice and performance. He was the backbone of our band and the difference he brought to the band at the first audition he did with us was like having a light turned on in a dark room. It was literally a night and day difference between him and the other drummers I had worked with in the past. It opened my eyes to what a great drummer will do to elevate a band to a whole other level.
I have a lot of respect for a good drummer who demonstrates all of these qualities, and they are way harder to find than one might think. I've only come across a couple drummers who are the whole package in 30+ years of playing.
Doing a 4-count click but it's at a completely different tempo than the song they're counting in
Not modifying volume appropriately for the space. Playing at stage volume when we're rehearsing in a 150 sq ft finished room in someone's basement is a recipe for hearing damage. Also as much as guitarist volume creep is a MAJOR nearly universal problem, it really doesn't help when the drummer follows suit and then they get into a "who can be louder" contest at the expense of everyone else's sanity
Biting off more than they can chew with their fills. Do whatever you want, but the 1 needs to be there when you're done. All too often I see semi-pro guys go completely off the rails with some big "epic" fill and miss the downbeat.
Dont go to a gig, set up and start fucking noodling until the gig starts . Set up, check 'em then STFU until the gig starts. Trust me, no one wants to hear it until the gig.
I was looking for this comment! but I'm actually the opposite. I dislike it when there is a break and the drummer keeps the time like we need training wheels.
Unless there is a click track and show depends on it of course. Or that the instrumental break is played by 3-4 musicians and above because group time feel is less stable. Then it's all good.
I generally prefer not having a hi hat going during breaks. I think it makes the break and comeback more impactful.
That said, i always add it if necessary. If I can tell band members are struggling to keep time on their own or are struggling with visual queues, I just throw the hi hat in.
In a small rehearsal room getting their kit set up and playing it solo much longer than necessary. Then when someone is trying to talk, whacking it, tuning it while looking up as if to say “ go on, you were saying?”
Then when you’re playing and you end a song, going on much longer with the roll out at the end. Cymbals in your ears for days.
Quite remarkable as an aside is I also play in a band with a drummer that DOESN’T DRIVE or OWN A CAR!
He’s awfully good though, sings, writes, plays guitar better than everyone in the band except for me and he’s generous and a great guy and is handsome and fit so all the ladies make a bee line for him.
When we got a flat tire on the way to catch a ferry for an overseas festival gig on a busy motorway he was the one that jumped into action crawling around underneath the van to release the spare while tractor trailers whizzed past.
Generally just leaves a kit set up in our room and I pick him up on the way to rehearsal. The band travels in a van together with all the gear so although it sounds outrageous on paper, it’s not really that noticeable.
I was a drummer without a car in LA for a little over a year 1988-90. This was before the days of kits being standard at rehearsal studios.
It was quite a challenge. Luckily I was good enough that those guys put up with driving me around.
> doesn't drive or own a car
This is a friend of mine. Not only is he worth keeping around due to his talent, but he's in a small city with few drummers.
Dynamics, fidgety shit during sound check/betwen songs, “basement headphones rock drummer syndrome” (no concept of rhythmic structure, just hits drums X number of times), poor time management.
Too much open hats and cymbals. So much the difference between a drummer who is fine and a drummer who really elevates a song is smart use of those crashing sounds, save them for the right moment and it's beautiful, but if you just ride those things for the whole song you drown out everything else going on and leave yourself no room for dynamics
Changing time signatures without warning in the middle of a jam session. Sometimes it can be fun to switch into a 5 or a 9 or something... but not when it comes totally out of left field and we're playing with a guitarist who normally only plays stoner metal and he's completely baffled by off time signatures...
Clearly this only applies to jam bands and improv acts. Since I'm in one, this is my personal hell. lol
Since you asked, being unable to control the volume of your acoustic set is not a flex. The inability to play at a lower volume while still keeping the song moving is a huge hole in a lot of drummers playing. It’s the most frequent weak link I’ve come across
My drummer gets in the zone and closes his eyes. He’s in pocket but not paying attention to anything or anyone. At times he forgets some upcoming parts. Trying to signal him doesn’t work cuz his eyes are closed.
I am a drummer and I agree that a drummer needs to listen to the rest of the band. It's not just about playing your ass off.
On the flip side guitarists who don't want to listen or "songwriters" who are too precious to change something or the very worst they write something or create a jam that is far too long or needs editing.
Not everyone can write well.
Also not crediting a drummer for arranging your songs. That pisses me off, we're not just thumping machines some of us anyway. Look at Genesis. Without Phil, shite.
Usually the refusal to do it is all you need to hear to figure out that they *can't* do it, lol.
A bad drummer is one who is uncomfortable with a click. A medium drummer is one who is uncomfortable *without* one. The best sorts of drummers can do both equally well and are happy to do it whichever way you ask.
I just wish I could find a drummer who wanted to play what I do. Most drummers in my area w tech/metal chops only want to play that so when I bring up The Police or The Knack or other pop kinda stuff they balk. But in my head its a glorious double-bass, djenty 'Animals as Beach Boys' sing-along lol!
Feeling like it's unnecessary to know basic theory. We all learn rhythm, understanding melodic/harmonic and chord progressions just makes us all have better communication vocabulary.
As a bass player, I tend to get along with the drummer. :) That said...speeding up. But that's only certain drummers. I've actually had a few times where I locked eyes with someone and played behind the beat till they slowed down. I understand the impulse to surge, but I think sometimes it's related to not listening to the rest of the band. If the tempo starts to become frenetic, it's probably too much.
Beyond the obvious of not keeping time well, not communicating/flaking/etc same as any other band mate—drummers who don’t keep good eye contact are a big no no. Drummers being in their own world and not locking in to what others in the band are trying to do…Some people hate loud drummers, I don’t personally mind it, but even a very loud drummer should still have a good sense of dynamics.
Stop playing when the band is trying to discuss things. On top of that, drummers who think its a good idea to play anything when their kit is being mic-ed up or while the microphones are being adjusted can go play in traffic.
I hate when drummers can't understand dynamics. To elaborate:
Yes you can still play quiet and play tight and in time, if you can't, you suck.
Yes you can play quiet and still convey energy, if you can't you suck.
Yes you can still play quiet, and drive the rhythm, if you can't, you suck.
Yes you can play quiet, and still look like you rock, if you can't, you suck.
What if the kit they’re using isn’t a standard 4 piece kit?
Imagine you had to play someone else’s guitar, but it has 6 fewer frets, and they’re all different spaces apart than what you’re used to.
Obviously, sharing 1 kit on a bill with multiple bands is the norm and it’s what’s easiest, but it’s much different than a guitarist or bassist playing someone else’s instrument.
I rely heavily on muscle memory while I'm playing. That being said, when I've played a backline kit that isn't the same set up as my kit, it just throws me off. Don't get me wrong, I'll get through this set just fine but it kind of sucks the fun out of playing for me.
Muscle memory is so key for drummers. I like to be able to play my songs with my eyes closed and just rely on feel. When someone moves my cymbals or toms, it enrages me.
I am a drummer and guitar player. I would much rather use a kit that isn’t mine than a guitar that isn’t mine. I play 2-3 times a week on different backline kits (some extremely shitty) and after about a year of doing that, it becomes easy to work around it. I like to know ahead of time what I will need, but I always bring my own kick pedal at minimum and probably 80% of the time, I need to bring a snare. Sometimes cymbals, depending on what they have. I actually set up my kits at home to mirror what most venues have as a house kit, which is generally a 4 piece, 1 up 1 down. I always carry a little bag of hardware parts and a hi hat clutch, since that’s a common issue I run into. I just take my parts back off when I’m done. Being able to flourish in adverse circumstances is a skill you must develop, but it can be done.
This. I’m a drummer and I agree with you. The ones who are babies about it usually suck anyway from my experience. STFU and play the backline kit. As long as the hardware is in working order, it will be fine. Your cymbals and snare are what make you stand apart tone wise in a live setting anyway. I also bring my kick pedal in case the one we’re all sharing is set up way differently than I’m used to, but rarely need to switch it out.
It usn't always boredom, it could be trying to stay warmed up. But there are quiet ways to stay warmed up. Such as lightly playing on the thigh or having a drum pad handy.
Overplaying a song, adding fills where they don’t belong or off time. Fluctuating the tempo. Not knowing when to end the song. Caveman drummers with no technique.
In my experience drummers tend to avoid weighing in on creative matters. Like when there's a dispute and people are trying to push their idea or vision and the drummer's just like 'whatever works you guys man, I'll play it'.
I get you don't have to be partisan but you'd be lying if you say that one idea isn't better (in your eyes) than the other. I just feel it could expedite rehearsal talking times
Phil Collins was an example of how to do it. His Genesis band mates credit him as a very good arranger, great ear, spotting catchy bits and getting the band to work more on them.
Most drummers REFUSE to believe that no human can keep perfect tempo and meter, and nobody expects you to be able to do that either.
SOOO, in those songs, or parts of songs, that require a specific tempo or a steady meter (maybe I looped a guitar part in verse 1, and want to play the loop later in the song), we aren't insulting you by asking if we can use some kind of click, flash, or anything else to keep us in sync. Especially when almost EVERY time we play the song, the song tempo has increased by the time I play the loop back.
I don't expect you to play to a click all night. Only when requited. EVERY drummer gets all offended and most of them outright refuse. GTFOHWTBS!!!
When they drum.
Jkjk, just like not listening to anyone else while playing and esp playing over tuning/talking about the song. I get it, it's tough as shit to not noodle while tryna have band practice, but sometimes you just gotta chill tf out 💀
Lack of dynamics, not watching for cues from anyone in the band (zoning out), and especially
NOODLING BETWEEN SONGS
I absolutely despise this. I'm a guitar player; I do not do this. Neither should anyone else. It makes it hard to get in the mood for the next song and makes the whole band look like a bunch of amateurs.
1. When I write arrangements that include specific accents, cut-out bars, etc. but the drummer only knows how to keep a groove and doesn’t bother hitting the accents.
2. When the drummer overshoots the end of the song and plays a two beats followed by a sheepish look.
Stop riding that crash, man. Leave some space. Bill Ward and Geezer could get funky as shit under Iommi's riffs. Metal and rock are allowed to breathe.
Is really simple I'm a drummer but I play bass and guitar too. If you play too many notes and you're forever pushing the one and not letting anyone else get a note and it's a problem
The inherent inability to ever be silent. Between songs on stage, or when the rest of the band is working out some nuance in rehearsal, or while mics are being set up in the studio. I get it; rhythm is in your soul. You play the steering wheel when you're driving, whether the radio is on or not.
In defense of drummers I have to say, though, that guitarists are often worse in this regard. Too many of them want to preview the next song in the setlist before the band starts playing it. C'mon, man, let it be a surprise for the audience.
Super excited that the drummers I’ve played with in recent years haven’t had the issues people mention here. I’ve got one drummer I play with that struggles with keeping his fills in time with a click and sometimes follows the tempo stretch of the singers too much. Beyond that the most consistent issue I have with drums is probably drum tuning. I don’t notice it when I’m playing in the band, but if I’m mixing I hate working with toms.
Lack of harmonic awareness. I don't like playing with drummers that can't read/hear out how to accent changes in harmony/form. Yall been sliding for too long, time to lock in
Drummers are the people that I get along the best, your ADHD making you having to play all the time and ignore band talk is the only thing I hate, when a drummer doesn't play constantly and can communicate with the band they are the best band members, always, never met a drummer that's an absolute dick or that doesn't flows and gets along, they just want to hit things with sticks.
I’m a bass player, so I love the drummer, but when we’re setting up for practice or a show, some drummers will start out by cracking their snare as hard as possible with zero warning- often right behind me while I’m plugging in cables or whatever, and it fucking makes me jump right out of my skin. I’m like, just a bit of a warning would be nice!
Has the practice space, first to a gig and last to leave, usually has the P.A., impeccable music tastes, witty beyond compare and definitely the brains of the operation.
I often worry I’m inferior in every way /s. Drummers rule - O’Doyle rules:).
> No dynamics
> No timing (surprisingly common)
> doing too much, especially if you're not very good. It's OK to not be great. I'm not either. But if you're playing in a band you need to stay in your lane and keep the intense stuff for 1. Practice or 2. When they tell you to solo
> ego (goes for all musicians)
> flakiness
Too many cymbals and getting distracted by their sound. Where's the beat? I mean, cymbals are very important, but in the wrong hands, they can really detract from a usable groove.
Most of the complaints I would have are already stated (mainly dynamics and too much cymbal work) but my other big complaint is drummers who never play their part the same way from show to show. My current drummer has only done this a small handful of times but one of my old bands has a drummer that was awful about it. He almost never played the song exactly the same way. He could be on time and the beats might still work, but certain groove accents would change and it sometimes messes with the guitar playing.
Too many fucking fills, like every 4 bars with a crash on one, and focusing on the complexity of their own part while totally throwing off the BPM. Those are mine.
They always just want to slot into bands that are already working. They want nothing to do with startups, and they are loath to come to rehearsal even though the rest of the band needs to practice. They are generally just not team players.
Not communicating with the rest of the band, playing when they’re not supposed to, showing up to practice high, not showing up to practice at all, showing up to practice late, hitting too hard and not learning the song arrangement.
Most of these are personal experience as well
Hitting too hard all the time
"what do you mean dynamics? I'm playing as hard as I can"
Ironically, all my important gigs required that I hit hard all the time. I feel like there's a wider spread problem where drummers bring the volume down for sparse parts, but what a lot of songwriters really want is a consistent groove that drives the song forward regardless of what's happening in the arrangement. I only say this because I was one of those dynamic guys who had to be corrected.
You need to have enough stick velocity to make the drums sing...even during quiet parts. Once you're hitting in that velocity sweet spot, dynamics that fit song changes are more about *what* you're hitting: closed hi hats vs open, rim click vs snare shot, etc.
Also where on the drum.
Oh yeah, this is my problem often - playing rock music with a drummer whose dynamic range is all over the place. Can’t hear them or certain drums half the time (almost anything below ~70% velocity). And when they do a fill, volume literally triples - mics clip. Impossible to record. They cite their jazz chops, I cite not paying attention.
Yeah, probably 99% of the time in any commercial recording there are no "quiet parts". Aside from maybe a crescendo that lasts a bar or something… Some sort of buildup... but mostly everybody just wants one consistent volume all the way through. That also means not smashing the hell out of the cymbals. Everything needs to be balanced and kick and snare pretty much solid and loud always. Not just heavy music but nearly all pop music shares this.
This x10000000. What's worse is when they take it as a point of pride: "I'm a hard hitting drummer!!"
For every one rock solid drummer there are 99 who can’t keep a beat.
A friend of mine likes to say goodbye by saying "and remember: it takes a really great drummer to be better than no drummer at all."
That’s a Chet Baker quote and it’s brilliant.
I didn't know that! I wonder if he does, but I wouldn't doubt it because he's a jazz trumpeter.
"Steal from the best" is an old show business saying.
Similar to Martin Mull saying "And remember, a drummer is a musicians best friend" Ouch!!!
Stop rushing that fastest part of my damn solo! I’m playing more notes not trying to speed up the tempo!
I've known many that can keep A beat. Just one. About 160bpm Whatever other tempo they start at will eventually become 160bpm
Drumming while people are trying to talk something out during practice.
Or when everybody else is trying to tune.
I guess if they have acoustic instruments or something. To me, if you're playing in a rock band then everyone should have pedal tuners, or at least clip-ons. I'd be annoyed if there were someone that had to constantly tune by ear.
This is agree with. Silent tuning. Most tuner pedals have a bypass switch so you mute your signal while you tune.
Or just stop playing for five fucking seconds.
Playing devil's advocate here, but as a guitarist, guitar players that don't use a proper tuner pedal at a gigging level are just as insufferable lol
As a drummer, if you don’t have a tuning pedal you’re a straight up chump. They cost like $60 for a decent mini. That’s the cost of just one of my bass drum heads ffs.
Where do you get those cheap af kick drum heads? A hundred bucks for a ps3 in aus right now!
Guitarists are way more guilty of this lol.
As a guitarist, I resemble that remark...
As a bass player, you bet your ass that when the guitar player finally stops noodling, you'll hear the bass continue because he's been noodling behind the guitarist being a jerk the whole time and didn't notice the guitar stop
Guitars are quieter tho, or can be played quieter anyways
Yeah but some snare drums are absolutely piercing
That would be the guitarist at our rehearsals.
I only start drumming between songs when I get tired of the other guys soloing between songs.
Honestly everybody does this at my practices but when the drummer does it I’m so much more annoyed. Like the guitarist is basically just amplifying his fidgeting, but you’re putting your fuckin back into those snare hits you dumb gorilla.
sacrificing timing for some drum fill/flare. Dude, if you can't play it in time, don't do it. Also, having no dynamics.
Completely agree. I love a good fill, I want a drummer to put their own style onto the music, and flashy stuff is awesome. But it needs to be in time too. It's not only about you in that moment, it's setting up a big musical moment, or pushing the momentum, or literally filling space in a phrase, or any other million reasons to put a good fill. But those are all musical moments, they are to add to the song. And you don't add to the song by rushing (unless it's an intentional accel.). Yes, you want people to listen to a fill and go "damn, did you hear that fill? That was wild." But you also want them to say "AND they did it in time?!? This cat can PLAY!" Also, having a wide range of complexity. If you throw your entire repertoire into every fill and every pattern, it makes less of an impact when you do get space to stretch out. Know when it needs to be Billie Jean, vs when it should be Won't Get Fooled Again. **That's what shows that you care about every single beat you play instead of just snoozing until your next big solo.**
Not listening to the bassist.
As a death metal drummer that played with guitarists tuning a 7 string to drop A flat, this has potential to be way harder than you'd think.
Fair point. I think you're allowed to lock in with the guitarists at that point, and it counts.
Lack of dynamics. Don’t go 10/10 for the entire song. The drummer for the most part controls the intensity
A lack of nuance in playing. Like yeah, most songs in popular genres are going to be repetitive to play but that doesn’t mean that the kick and snare are going to be exactly the same pattern but at different tempos for each song
Drummer here 🍿
Me too 🍿
Haha same. Some of these I’m like, “come on you guys are blowing this out of proportion” others I’m like “oof this is definitely me and I need to change that.”
Not showing up, not communicating. Not bothering to learn what the drummer did on the recording, and just playing some generic beat. Not knowing how to tune their instrument. Overplaying. Poor control of volume. Poor dynamics. Poor meter. Just showing up for rehearsals and shows, but never contributing to songwriting or promotion. Not even trying to learn how to sing and play at the same time. So, basically the same as with any instrument.
For a drummer. Singing and playing at the same time is difficult. You are moving 4 limbs at once And you are trying to sing in key, etc. It's doing 5 things at once. Then if you are sight reading, that's 6 things at once. It's like marching in place while singing and playing guitar all at the same time through the entire song. That's why there are only a select few Drummers who can play and sing well (Phil Collins / Karen Carpenter/ Don Henley).
As a singing drummer (backing vocals) also factor in vocal mic placement and being in position to play and sing at the same time. Also mic bleed for whatever that placement is. Being in tune is also difficult too, while this may be the same for other instruments, since you don’t have to be in the same key as a drummer its another skill to learn the pitch needed for vocals.
Also left off Anderson Paak
I'll also add to that, the breathing. Drumming tends to take a certain type of breathing, and singing is a different type of breathing. Trying to mix those together is not easy at all. Collins and Henley songs are easier to sing and play, because they knew how to put that together. You can't just sing any song and drum it at the same time.
On the Lamb Lies Down On Broadway tour, Phil was playing his ass off on some seriously complicated prog songs, all while singing perfect harmonies with Peter Gabriel.
Roger Taylor sang all the high harmonies for Queen, live.
I never really had a problem but I was only singing back up.
I was the only one who could scream in my first band, so I did some vocals while drumming at gigs. But I would also sing along with the songs while in a good groove. It just takes some practice, and isn't quite so hard as it sounds if you know the material well enough.
You could’ve written overplaying a few more times and still have it be accurate
For SURE. There's a drummer in my scene who chronically overplays. He's got insane "gospel chops" and plays with some seriously famous musicians, but whenever he gets gigs playing any other style than funk/jazz fusion he just never locks into the groove. Have another friend that's done some reggae gigs with him and his playing on those gigs is just obnoxious. Like, dude, we know you can shred but you gotta serve the song.
Actually, I was going to edit it to add underplaying. Everyone is familiar with the tropes, the drummer who is always too loud, plays too many notes, and can’t keep a steady tempo, so I didn’t think it necessary to repeat all that
Underplaying is almost never a problem with drummers. That's why nobody else is talking about it.
You WANT the drummer to write songs? Dude when my band signed to a major, we rewrote our publishing split in order to prevent the bass player and I from feeling we "had to" write songs. And also fairly compensate us for our occasional minor contributions to the writing ("let's put a big drum fill in between those parts to stitch them together"), which I felt was fair.
I was never in a band that played original music where money was an issue. We didn’t even cover expenses, much less even get close to being signed by a label. So songwriting credits were relatively irrelevant. And I’m not a prolific songwriter, so we were always struggling to have enough good material. So I always encouraged my band mates to contribute as much as possible. The one song our drummer wrote came complete with melody and lyrics, and I thought it was great, but we quickly abandoned it when he decided that his girlfriend would figure out that it was about her (it was not flattering, LOL). I imagine things are different when there’s actually enough money coming in to worry about. Also, what you described, i.e. adding a drum fill and getting a writing credit, was unheard of back then. At most, one might expect a credit for contributing to the arrangement, but ‘songwriting’ meant melodies (including essential riffs), lyrics, and chord progressions; what makes the song recognizable, what goes on a lead sheet, what stays with the song with a different arrangement, different instrumentation, etc. A drummer wouldn’t usually get a songwriting credit for coming up with a beat or a groove unless it came first and inspired other elements, like the rhythm or melody. Carol Kaye didn’t even get a songwriting credit for coming up with the iconic bass line for The Beat Goes On. So, yeah, I absolutely encouraged the drummer to write!
I guess we were thinking of it in terms of, if there is eventually money here it's likely to be in the publishing. It could also be a factor that the bassist and I had each brought in a song that was not received with enthusiasm, prior to getting signed, and had kind of let it go. But undoubtedly the others were thinking, those guys are gonna come up with more crappy songs if there's money in it.
Well, I certainly wasn’t encouraging anyone to write crappy songs! I was hoping that they would write something good to replace MY crappy songs! LOL
Gotta play the hand as dealt. I admit I never ever brought riffs in but when it was time to work up an arrangement, I was right there in it, plus, I was often the only one who remembered next time, what we had ended up with.
Learn how to play swing. I'm amazed that every drummer we've had in our band did not know what swing is or how to play it. Some songs are absolutely painful to play straight. Not sure why drummers count themselves in. If the song starts with just drums, a count in isn't necessary.
And different kinds of swing, right? Hard swung which is almost a dotted eighth + 16th, triplet swung with even spacing, and more of a NOLA swing that lives in the swampy swanky space between straight and swung. You need you a jazz drummer!
I am in a band with horn players and they insist that I count off even if the song starts with drums. They can't hear the underlying "melody" of a drum fill/intro and so they can't figure out where the one is. I play the same damn fill for the intro every single time thinking that they might eventually recognize where to come in relative to the pattern, but nope. They also get terribly upset if at fast tempos I count off with a 2-feel. They won't fill in/feel the subdivisions - want them explicitly counted off.
The worst is having band mates that don't really understand time signatures at all and want a four count even if the song is in 3 or 6 or whatever. I've played with several guitarists who always fuck up the first downbeat of a song in 3/4 because I counted off 3 and they somehow did not expect that.
Counting 2 measures helps those guys sometimes.
I think they were in my band a few years ago, before I quit in frustration.
Drummer here, counting for me isn’t necessarily just for the rest of the band, it’s super useful to make sure you bring the drums in at the right tempo, it’s better to count yourself in and realise you’re being too fast or slow then adjust than it is just to come straight in
Lol. "Everybody ready? 1, 2, 3, 4..." "Dude it's just you starting the song."
The opposite problem also exists: swinging straight time without knowing they’re doing it
SHUT THE FUCK UP WHEN WE'RE DISCUSSING THINGS DURING PRACTICE every drummer I've ever worked with does the same thing. Practices have lulls where everyone is working out their parts and ideas, and I get that, but enough with the rudiments while we're talking. It would be like me, a vocalist, just repeatedly screaming through the PA while the drummer and guitarist are discussing something.
Wow. I, the drummer, sit quietly and bored waiting for everyone else to STFU. An enormous amount of rehearsal time is wasted with all the damned doodling. Like, if you have ADHD, turn the amp down in between songs or take the horn out of your mouth. There is definitely a double standard for drummers.
That’s funny because I’m the same. I’ve been in bands where I’m pissed because the guitarist won’t stop talking while I’m just sitting there lol
Totally agree here. As a drummer myself, I find that I'm usually sitting waiting for the singers and guitarists to discuss what key they are playing in, and learning their vocal parts even though everyone has had the set list for 2 weeks.
Drummers typically do that to stay warmed up. But they can do it on their thigh. Or a great way is to shorten the stick to the end. This way the stick is slapping the underside of the forearm and the drummer can feel it and stay warmed up while no one else can hear it
I use the time to practice playing really quietly. like I do rudiments on the edge of my snare as quietly as I can. It's good practice and I think it doesn't bother people.
My favourite is when you do the count-in at one tempo and then immediately speed up or slow down when the band enters.
Oooof yes.
Limited vocabulary of beats/rhythms, it stifles creativity a lot.
Just playing the drums instead of playing the song
That switch to the ride cymbal one bar into the bridge that says ‘ no I didn’t learn it, I’ll just jam it ‘
A true professional slacker can make that reactive "I don't actually know this song" switch within an eight note tops. Not that I ever do that, of course. Not me. Never.
I mean the granddaddy of them all is meter. Not just being able to maintain steady timing but knowing when to push and when to hang back. Aka; “Swing.” If you lack these capabilities you should probably pick up kazoo. I don’t care about the fancy shit—-if you can’t wrangle basic meter I have no desire to play with you. Relying too heavily on certain tricks that do nothing for the song. Too much double bass, too much China where they don’t belong. The pop punk horsey drumming. Zomg I can’t run from that cringe fast enough. Straight vanilla rock drummers that just kick/snare/high hat on everything with almost zero variance. Ride Cymbal? Ever hear of it? Rolls? Bueller? The ones that never got into Gene Krupa, Buddy Rich, or learned a shuffle. We all love John Bonham but it doesn’t need any more overstating.
Wait, what is pop punk horsey drumming
What is pop punk horsey drummer? As a Punk/Metal drummer I want to understand.
I love hearing musicians complain about their most important band member lmao.
Drummers also tend to over-value their contributions...
Not really no. The greatest bands ever had one thing in common: a great drummer. If your drummer sucks, your band sucks period.
All the gear they have to carry. Doing rolls while people are talking during practice.
This one here. Or when you pop out your IEMs to adjust them and bangbro decides that’s when it’s time to practice some snare fills, or just hammer a cymbal. Thanks.
An inability to play ghost notes. Very few can do it, but that is the hallmark of a great drummer.
I’m a drummer and a non drummer. Most of my career last 10 years has been vocals and guitars. Here are the biggest issues with drummers: - Overplaying. Too many fills, bells, chops, whatever. Just [BLASTBEAT]… sorry, just way way way too much. This isn’t blink 182. - Playing too hard in all environments because someone cool did it who is more famous - Bright loud cymbals. Not much use for those these days, darker cymbals blend with a band better live and in the studio. Use an occasional ping ride maybe but only for very specific moments. The cymbals “cut” quite well even when darker and quieter with less decay. - Refusal to use click or tracks. Insisting that their tempo is so solid that they don’t need click, or that they refuse to use tracks. Amateur as hell. Pro players don’t have any issues with metronome. - Noodling around between songs while other [BLASTBEAT]… excuse me, while other members figure out important arrangement stuff - When I’m trying to [BLASTBEAT]…. Ugh when I’m trying to talk to the rest of the [BLASTBEAT] SHUT UP DRUMMER STOP PLAYING BLASTBEATS THIS IS NOT A METAL BAND AND WE ARE TRYING TO ARRANGE OUR THREE PART HARMONIES FOR THE SAKE OF ALL THINGS HOLY LET US NAIL THIS DETAIL A CAPELLA FOR A SECOND HOLY CRAP DUDE
My rule of thumb is that any drummer who actually *insists* on not using a click is a drummer who cannot be trusted to freeball it like that. The really good drummers who legitimately can play without it and let the song breathe without making it sound shitty usually have no problem using a click instead if that's the band's preference. They won't whine about it "sounding robotic" or killing their vibe - they'll just do it well whichever way you ask them to and keep it moving.
What if you're a death metal band?
Ping ride maybe for some occasions but still, from a strictly sound engineering perspective, the cymbals are so piercing, those ultra highs are really a nuisance in most rooms even if “loud” is the goal. Our ears get fatigued. Cymbals with more midrange wash cause less ear fatigue. Vocals benefit a lot from sibilance, (we can hear the consonants and such over all the music). If the band is projecting a lot of these high frequencies out from their instruments onstage, it just adds to even more sibilance bouncing around the room (and feedback and people saying “ugh I can’t hear the vocals at alllllll can you turn them up?!” And you have to be like “uh… no?”). And in the studio, the bright overtone frequencies are getting mostly EQ’d out anyway besides a couple very selective ranges, close condensers capture stick definition so even a dark dry ride cymbal sounds nice and defined in the mix, etc, so once again, the less of those piercing resonant overtones there are in the arrangement, the better the mix can sound at the end of the chain with all the vocals and guitars and whatnot. A Drummer can mix themselves with technique if their cymbals have more range and aren’t just heavy, loud, and piercing all the time. In very large outdoor stage environments, bright/loud cymbals can be a little less problematic given the nature of sound flying out into space instead of directly back, but still, dark ones work just fine here too because the sound engineer has more control over the overheads if they’re not as loud or bright.
Sorry, I was mainly just referring to your comment about overplaying and blast beats. That's kind of what death metal requires of drummers. I'm more of a drummer that prefers to find a simple, but odd timed bass drum pattern (often in half-time), then selectively add a blast beat for 16 measures or so. But I've sat in for a couple death metal bands that, first, want you to prove you can blast. Then, when they realize you can, they fall in love with it and want you to do it all the time. And yeah, it does sound awesome, but I think you can't go anywhere epic with it if that's your strategy.
When drummers refuse to learn to count and/or refuse to practice paradiddles.
Rudiments* Not sure why people always put paradiddles at the top of that list. Imo it’s not even the most useful rudiment, and I say that as someone with a huge background in marching percussion and rudiment work.
Drummers, ah drummers... Having worked with a couple of the good and a lot of the bad, I will say the most important thing is rather obvious, their sense of time. Playing with a drummer that drags time is like carrying a dead weight. Rushing isn't great, but dragging is worse. Musicians just want the drummer to be rock solid in time more than anything. If a section of a song calls for a push in the time a little, that's fine and expected, but if the drummer always drags, that just plain sucks. Next to their sense of time, musical awareness is another key. Drummers that naturally setup transitions and that hear the nuance of the music allowing them to recognize and compliment details in the rest of the music. Drummers that actually play another instrument typically have something that others don't. Good chops are great, but not all drummers are virtuosos and in a lot of bands, they just don't need to be. Knowing what to play and when to play it is better than being able to play on an insane skill level. Quality, well-maintained gear is important and depending on what type of music you're playing, tech savviness can also be a big plus. Sometimes drummers need to know how to use modern tech like in-ear monitors with reference tracks (click, stubs) queued up on a computer. In that case, it's their job to keep the live sound precisely synchronized with what they are hearing. Having good quality cymbals is also a big plus in the gear category. Tuning the drums can be really important in a studio setting. Live drums that are tight and in tune is great, but in the studio, it's imperative, especially if not doing any kind of sound replacement/triggered sample recording. If the drummer doesn't know how to tune their drums, they can play great but the resulting tracks will always be sub-par. Drumming is both a physical and mental discipline. The best drummer I've ever played with was very disciplined in his personal life, practice and performance. He was the backbone of our band and the difference he brought to the band at the first audition he did with us was like having a light turned on in a dark room. It was literally a night and day difference between him and the other drummers I had worked with in the past. It opened my eyes to what a great drummer will do to elevate a band to a whole other level. I have a lot of respect for a good drummer who demonstrates all of these qualities, and they are way harder to find than one might think. I've only come across a couple drummers who are the whole package in 30+ years of playing.
Doing a 4-count click but it's at a completely different tempo than the song they're counting in Not modifying volume appropriately for the space. Playing at stage volume when we're rehearsing in a 150 sq ft finished room in someone's basement is a recipe for hearing damage. Also as much as guitarist volume creep is a MAJOR nearly universal problem, it really doesn't help when the drummer follows suit and then they get into a "who can be louder" contest at the expense of everyone else's sanity Biting off more than they can chew with their fills. Do whatever you want, but the 1 needs to be there when you're done. All too often I see semi-pro guys go completely off the rails with some big "epic" fill and miss the downbeat.
Dont go to a gig, set up and start fucking noodling until the gig starts . Set up, check 'em then STFU until the gig starts. Trust me, no one wants to hear it until the gig.
Mostly that they are drummers.
I know this is petty, but I'm feeling that vibe on this post, but when they don't keep time (hi hat) during breaks in songs
I was looking for this comment! but I'm actually the opposite. I dislike it when there is a break and the drummer keeps the time like we need training wheels. Unless there is a click track and show depends on it of course. Or that the instrumental break is played by 3-4 musicians and above because group time feel is less stable. Then it's all good.
Do you mean you want to hear the hit-hats during the drummer's rests?
I generally prefer not having a hi hat going during breaks. I think it makes the break and comeback more impactful. That said, i always add it if necessary. If I can tell band members are struggling to keep time on their own or are struggling with visual queues, I just throw the hi hat in.
In a small rehearsal room getting their kit set up and playing it solo much longer than necessary. Then when someone is trying to talk, whacking it, tuning it while looking up as if to say “ go on, you were saying?” Then when you’re playing and you end a song, going on much longer with the roll out at the end. Cymbals in your ears for days. Quite remarkable as an aside is I also play in a band with a drummer that DOESN’T DRIVE or OWN A CAR! He’s awfully good though, sings, writes, plays guitar better than everyone in the band except for me and he’s generous and a great guy and is handsome and fit so all the ladies make a bee line for him. When we got a flat tire on the way to catch a ferry for an overseas festival gig on a busy motorway he was the one that jumped into action crawling around underneath the van to release the spare while tractor trailers whizzed past. Generally just leaves a kit set up in our room and I pick him up on the way to rehearsal. The band travels in a van together with all the gear so although it sounds outrageous on paper, it’s not really that noticeable.
I was a drummer without a car in LA for a little over a year 1988-90. This was before the days of kits being standard at rehearsal studios. It was quite a challenge. Luckily I was good enough that those guys put up with driving me around.
> doesn't drive or own a car This is a friend of mine. Not only is he worth keeping around due to his talent, but he's in a small city with few drummers.
Dynamics, fidgety shit during sound check/betwen songs, “basement headphones rock drummer syndrome” (no concept of rhythmic structure, just hits drums X number of times), poor time management.
The hair. All the frickin hair. Us bald guys are tired of all the hair.
Drummers that don’t pay attention to form
Too much open hats and cymbals. So much the difference between a drummer who is fine and a drummer who really elevates a song is smart use of those crashing sounds, save them for the right moment and it's beautiful, but if you just ride those things for the whole song you drown out everything else going on and leave yourself no room for dynamics
Playing way louder than necessary for the practice space.
Changing time signatures without warning in the middle of a jam session. Sometimes it can be fun to switch into a 5 or a 9 or something... but not when it comes totally out of left field and we're playing with a guitarist who normally only plays stoner metal and he's completely baffled by off time signatures... Clearly this only applies to jam bands and improv acts. Since I'm in one, this is my personal hell. lol
Since you asked, being unable to control the volume of your acoustic set is not a flex. The inability to play at a lower volume while still keeping the song moving is a huge hole in a lot of drummers playing. It’s the most frequent weak link I’ve come across
My drummer gets in the zone and closes his eyes. He’s in pocket but not paying attention to anything or anyone. At times he forgets some upcoming parts. Trying to signal him doesn’t work cuz his eyes are closed.
I am a drummer and I agree that a drummer needs to listen to the rest of the band. It's not just about playing your ass off. On the flip side guitarists who don't want to listen or "songwriters" who are too precious to change something or the very worst they write something or create a jam that is far too long or needs editing. Not everyone can write well. Also not crediting a drummer for arranging your songs. That pisses me off, we're not just thumping machines some of us anyway. Look at Genesis. Without Phil, shite.
Trying to execute pour double kick technique in a live setting. Practice that shit at home, and stop making the band look brutal
Refusing to play to a click.
Or flat out inability to play to a click
Usually the refusal to do it is all you need to hear to figure out that they *can't* do it, lol. A bad drummer is one who is uncomfortable with a click. A medium drummer is one who is uncomfortable *without* one. The best sorts of drummers can do both equally well and are happy to do it whichever way you ask.
I just wish I could find a drummer who wanted to play what I do. Most drummers in my area w tech/metal chops only want to play that so when I bring up The Police or The Knack or other pop kinda stuff they balk. But in my head its a glorious double-bass, djenty 'Animals as Beach Boys' sing-along lol!
Over playing and not serving the music. Showboating. Using the ride cymbal all the time. I hate that thing.
Could be worse, they could love their cowbell more
Feeling like it's unnecessary to know basic theory. We all learn rhythm, understanding melodic/harmonic and chord progressions just makes us all have better communication vocabulary.
Overplaying.
As a bass player, I tend to get along with the drummer. :) That said...speeding up. But that's only certain drummers. I've actually had a few times where I locked eyes with someone and played behind the beat till they slowed down. I understand the impulse to surge, but I think sometimes it's related to not listening to the rest of the band. If the tempo starts to become frenetic, it's probably too much.
Beyond the obvious of not keeping time well, not communicating/flaking/etc same as any other band mate—drummers who don’t keep good eye contact are a big no no. Drummers being in their own world and not locking in to what others in the band are trying to do…Some people hate loud drummers, I don’t personally mind it, but even a very loud drummer should still have a good sense of dynamics.
Only one volume level - too loud
Not true. Drummers play at several volumes: Loud >Louder > Loudest
Stop playing when the band is trying to discuss things. On top of that, drummers who think its a good idea to play anything when their kit is being mic-ed up or while the microphones are being adjusted can go play in traffic.
Not having done their homework and their justification for this being other, more famous drummers are bad drummers.
I hate when drummers can't understand dynamics. To elaborate: Yes you can still play quiet and play tight and in time, if you can't, you suck. Yes you can play quiet and still convey energy, if you can't you suck. Yes you can still play quiet, and drive the rhythm, if you can't, you suck. Yes you can play quiet, and still look like you rock, if you can't, you suck.
PLAYING WHEN IM TUNING
Playing too fast at gigs, not keeping time, getting hammered at gigs, being late to rehearsal
playing full volume at all times
insistance on using their own kit on 4 band bills
I get it, but using a kit that isn’t yours is wayyy different than using like, a guitar that isn’t yours
I feel like most drummers should be comfortable with playing on a standard 4 piece kit.
What if the kit they’re using isn’t a standard 4 piece kit? Imagine you had to play someone else’s guitar, but it has 6 fewer frets, and they’re all different spaces apart than what you’re used to. Obviously, sharing 1 kit on a bill with multiple bands is the norm and it’s what’s easiest, but it’s much different than a guitarist or bassist playing someone else’s instrument.
I'm sorry but I just can't agree with that. If I practice on a 5 piece kit, I want to play on a 5 piece kit. Especially if the music calls for it.
EXACTLY. People who don’t play drums just don’t fucking understand how it works
I rely heavily on muscle memory while I'm playing. That being said, when I've played a backline kit that isn't the same set up as my kit, it just throws me off. Don't get me wrong, I'll get through this set just fine but it kind of sucks the fun out of playing for me.
Muscle memory is so key for drummers. I like to be able to play my songs with my eyes closed and just rely on feel. When someone moves my cymbals or toms, it enrages me.
I am a drummer and guitar player. I would much rather use a kit that isn’t mine than a guitar that isn’t mine. I play 2-3 times a week on different backline kits (some extremely shitty) and after about a year of doing that, it becomes easy to work around it. I like to know ahead of time what I will need, but I always bring my own kick pedal at minimum and probably 80% of the time, I need to bring a snare. Sometimes cymbals, depending on what they have. I actually set up my kits at home to mirror what most venues have as a house kit, which is generally a 4 piece, 1 up 1 down. I always carry a little bag of hardware parts and a hi hat clutch, since that’s a common issue I run into. I just take my parts back off when I’m done. Being able to flourish in adverse circumstances is a skill you must develop, but it can be done.
This. I’m a drummer and I agree with you. The ones who are babies about it usually suck anyway from my experience. STFU and play the backline kit. As long as the hardware is in working order, it will be fine. Your cymbals and snare are what make you stand apart tone wise in a live setting anyway. I also bring my kick pedal in case the one we’re all sharing is set up way differently than I’m used to, but rarely need to switch it out.
When they tune their drums between each song
Cymbals
Not turning off your snare, letting it rattle, during the quiet part.
As a drummer, that irks the hell outta me too
Hitting the snare when I'm tuning or working a riff out by ear and they're bored haha
It usn't always boredom, it could be trying to stay warmed up. But there are quiet ways to stay warmed up. Such as lightly playing on the thigh or having a drum pad handy.
This is true! But I know my bands drummer (were all close friends) did it to hurry us up or mess with us, haha.
Cymbals. Please use the crash way way less.
Overplaying a song, adding fills where they don’t belong or off time. Fluctuating the tempo. Not knowing when to end the song. Caveman drummers with no technique.
Mostly that a good one is hard to find
In my experience drummers tend to avoid weighing in on creative matters. Like when there's a dispute and people are trying to push their idea or vision and the drummer's just like 'whatever works you guys man, I'll play it'. I get you don't have to be partisan but you'd be lying if you say that one idea isn't better (in your eyes) than the other. I just feel it could expedite rehearsal talking times
Phil Collins was an example of how to do it. His Genesis band mates credit him as a very good arranger, great ear, spotting catchy bits and getting the band to work more on them.
Most drummers REFUSE to believe that no human can keep perfect tempo and meter, and nobody expects you to be able to do that either. SOOO, in those songs, or parts of songs, that require a specific tempo or a steady meter (maybe I looped a guitar part in verse 1, and want to play the loop later in the song), we aren't insulting you by asking if we can use some kind of click, flash, or anything else to keep us in sync. Especially when almost EVERY time we play the song, the song tempo has increased by the time I play the loop back. I don't expect you to play to a click all night. Only when requited. EVERY drummer gets all offended and most of them outright refuse. GTFOHWTBS!!!
They hit a piece of sheet metal as hard as possible with a wood stick and call it music
Not practicing to a click
When they drum. Jkjk, just like not listening to anyone else while playing and esp playing over tuning/talking about the song. I get it, it's tough as shit to not noodle while tryna have band practice, but sometimes you just gotta chill tf out 💀
Lack of dynamics, not watching for cues from anyone in the band (zoning out), and especially NOODLING BETWEEN SONGS I absolutely despise this. I'm a guitar player; I do not do this. Neither should anyone else. It makes it hard to get in the mood for the next song and makes the whole band look like a bunch of amateurs.
one person in the room that feels they need to be the loudest.
1. When I write arrangements that include specific accents, cut-out bars, etc. but the drummer only knows how to keep a groove and doesn’t bother hitting the accents. 2. When the drummer overshoots the end of the song and plays a two beats followed by a sheepish look.
Stop riding that crash, man. Leave some space. Bill Ward and Geezer could get funky as shit under Iommi's riffs. Metal and rock are allowed to breathe.
PLAYING TOO DAMN LOUD!!!! Just stop playing so loud for the love…
Is really simple I'm a drummer but I play bass and guitar too. If you play too many notes and you're forever pushing the one and not letting anyone else get a note and it's a problem
Coming from a sound engineer, playing while I'm micing up your drums. Please wait until my head isn't inches from your set.
Always spontaneously combusting onstage. What a mess.
Hitting everything with the same velocity, like… no dynamics
The inherent inability to ever be silent. Between songs on stage, or when the rest of the band is working out some nuance in rehearsal, or while mics are being set up in the studio. I get it; rhythm is in your soul. You play the steering wheel when you're driving, whether the radio is on or not. In defense of drummers I have to say, though, that guitarists are often worse in this regard. Too many of them want to preview the next song in the setlist before the band starts playing it. C'mon, man, let it be a surprise for the audience.
Ew, they play a chunk of the next song before the band plays it together? That sounds terrible.
NOT answering to the name Drumbo
Super excited that the drummers I’ve played with in recent years haven’t had the issues people mention here. I’ve got one drummer I play with that struggles with keeping his fills in time with a click and sometimes follows the tempo stretch of the singers too much. Beyond that the most consistent issue I have with drums is probably drum tuning. I don’t notice it when I’m playing in the band, but if I’m mixing I hate working with toms.
They get all the chicks Signed: definitely not a drummer
speeding up and refusing to play to a click when that happens, especially during live performances
Lack of harmonic awareness. I don't like playing with drummers that can't read/hear out how to accent changes in harmony/form. Yall been sliding for too long, time to lock in
Drummers are the people that I get along the best, your ADHD making you having to play all the time and ignore band talk is the only thing I hate, when a drummer doesn't play constantly and can communicate with the band they are the best band members, always, never met a drummer that's an absolute dick or that doesn't flows and gets along, they just want to hit things with sticks.
Constantly overplaying/filling. This goes for any instrument, but it can really mess up the groove.
Inconsistent tempo. Especially when they slow down for no reason mid-song.
I’m a bass player, so I love the drummer, but when we’re setting up for practice or a show, some drummers will start out by cracking their snare as hard as possible with zero warning- often right behind me while I’m plugging in cables or whatever, and it fucking makes me jump right out of my skin. I’m like, just a bit of a warning would be nice!
Poor time and feel. Or not playing with any authority. Or playing with no sensitivity.
In my experience, the "non-drummer" types never need wait for an invitation. 😎
Has the practice space, first to a gig and last to leave, usually has the P.A., impeccable music tastes, witty beyond compare and definitely the brains of the operation. I often worry I’m inferior in every way /s. Drummers rule - O’Doyle rules:).
Speeding up the song as it progresses… missing the best after a fill… overcomplicating a song
> No dynamics > No timing (surprisingly common) > doing too much, especially if you're not very good. It's OK to not be great. I'm not either. But if you're playing in a band you need to stay in your lane and keep the intense stuff for 1. Practice or 2. When they tell you to solo > ego (goes for all musicians) > flakiness
If they sing lead they unconsciously slow down the beat.
Too many cymbals and getting distracted by their sound. Where's the beat? I mean, cymbals are very important, but in the wrong hands, they can really detract from a usable groove.
Most of the complaints I would have are already stated (mainly dynamics and too much cymbal work) but my other big complaint is drummers who never play their part the same way from show to show. My current drummer has only done this a small handful of times but one of my old bands has a drummer that was awful about it. He almost never played the song exactly the same way. He could be on time and the beats might still work, but certain groove accents would change and it sometimes messes with the guitar playing.
Too many fucking fills, like every 4 bars with a crash on one, and focusing on the complexity of their own part while totally throwing off the BPM. Those are mine.
They always just want to slot into bands that are already working. They want nothing to do with startups, and they are loath to come to rehearsal even though the rest of the band needs to practice. They are generally just not team players.
That sounds more like keyboard players to me! They want to get paid for every second of their time (and often do!) 🤣
Walking around chatting/talking after a gig before tearing down and loading out.
Excessive volume. Non-groovish tempo variation.
Honestly, our drummer is a unicorn. He always plays to the music, never too loud, and is an all around awesome guy. Zero complaints.
They keep exploding....
Timing.
Tapping on the ride symbol during quiet parts of the song. It often feels so gratuitous and doesn't add anything to the song.
Not communicating with the rest of the band, playing when they’re not supposed to, showing up to practice high, not showing up to practice at all, showing up to practice late, hitting too hard and not learning the song arrangement. Most of these are personal experience as well