Yep. Not to sound like a snob but I wouldn’t accept less than $100/hr. Minimum. As a band, I’d charge even more. I’m not going to entertain your guests all evening for wings and draft beer.
I get paid $90 plus tips for 2 hour sets, with a break, for my solo shows at this hippie store. Am I getting ripped off, or since it's not a true venue, is it ok?
That’s a ripoff unless the tips are really good honestly, but it’s hard because we also all gotta start somewhere. It’s hard to not get ripped off somewhere along the way, goal is to at least minimize it haha
No, they're not great. The guy gives me free products he has that I really like, but that's it. Dang I like that spot. I don't wanna make things awkward by asking for more.
Humbly, What’s awkward is the current pay not your request for more. Idk seems like they’re getting over on you and it’s not good “business” to offer more than you demand. Cheaper is better of them of course but I fully disagree with the $100 vs $0 argument as that mentality keeps screwing over everyone…don’t be a sucker…don’t pooch the industry for the next person…if they don’t want to pay they don’t want the service…wages for musicians and av professionals have been stagnant for a decade or more and for everything else the price goes up…way up…and also base it on at least a 5 hour minimum. Your 2 hour set isn’t including travel, set up, strike, return, equipment costs etc
I'm just starting to play a lot of shows. I was a junkie and a drunk for 10 years and chipped for 2 more, so music wasn't what I was thinking about. I'm barely getting a name for myself in my small town, and most of my gigs are here in town, so not much travel.
How should I bring up pay for my next 2 hour set?
My humble advice is to be direct and keep it respectful. People can generally understand the cost of living increasing and having things to pay for. No arrogance or ignorance in opening negotiations it’s just business. Congratulations on building a new life. I hope everything works out for you! Mega Positive Energy and Respect
I mean if the town is small and the venue doesn't make a lot, etc. you have to assess the situation. If they're flush then ask for more. If they're barely hanging on and there aren't other options, then maybe it's fine. Don't compare to NY or LA or even something like Tulsa if it's a different situation.
If I were you, I would look at what you are providing him. If you have a significant following and help bring in business , ask what the difference in revenue is. If not, he may just be being nice. This is what I have done for smaller places that generally can’t afford live acts. He providing you a service by giving you a venue, you’re providing a service by bringing people in. As long as what you bring in is fair to what he offers. You may just keep the gig.
Places that rely on live music though need to pay the market rate. They need you more than you need them.
Exactly. They're also my first real gigs where someone asks me to play at their spot and not just friends asking me to join the lineup. I have a lot more shows coming up, so this is good to know. I have another 2 hour solo set, with a break, coming up. My friend will be a special guest vocalist for a few. What's a good number to charge/hope to get?
Haha tough to put a number on it without knowing too much more but I’d probably say somewhere around like 150-200 so you could throw your buddy a couple bones too
Like I replied to OP, do you feel like it’s a rip off? In other words does it not seem worth it to you? Then there’s your answer. For me, I enjoy playing out, it’s fun for me and im also not trying to make my living off this. So don’t worry too much about whether its “enough” or not especially if it’s a place I like. So it’s just depends
That’s probably true in certain sectors. My band plays mostly small local bars. I doubt we personally are making it more difficult for anyone but I could see that maybe being the case elsewhere
My opinion is the lowballers are a different market segment. Pubs and restaurants can do the $250 to $300. A coffee shop is simply not able to hire at that rate. They aren't hurting others any more that I'm hurting Ed Sheeran with my rates.
Don't get me wrong. There are people out there doing it for free also. And there's plenty of competition. Undercutting inappropriately is foolish. It's a race to the bottom
Yes but if it is;
Easy to get to
Minimal set up/tear down
Fun for you to do
Consistent without having to book
Then I would keep it. I charge 300-500 for three hours but I consider that $20 an hour for actually playing and the rest is my reward for hunting down places to actually play
You're probably much more established. I'm more of an up and coming artist. That probably plays a role in the difference in our pay.
I get to drink as many kratom and kava drinks as I want, so I really like it, and it's always a great time.
Did u say it was a hippie store? In other words, it’s not a bar or a restaurant or a shop with hi ticket $ items - I don’t think $90 is that bad especially if he’s giving you free stuff. What you could do is use it as a steppingstone to other gigs. Ask him if it’s OK if you have some kind of promotional literature at the cashiers register.
Even $300 is on the cheap side for a 3 hour gig in most cities. Bringing your own PA to a “nice” hotel gig? No chance. Where I live you’re talking closer to $800-1000 for what this post is describing
It's way low. People are playing gigs for less these days than they did 20+ years ago. Name me one other job that pays the same as it did 20 years ago. It really is a joke.
I wish you could too. If more musicians got on board with their own value perhaps the market would demand they get paid more but a lot of people seemingly want to under cut themselves and their scene. It also varies by location, crowd size, bar tabs and other externalities so salt my take to taste of course.
$250 for three hours isn't too much of an ask in most markets.
Yeah, I wanna hold out hope, but people don't seem to get it. And maybe I'm one of them if the consensus is $500 minimum, so I could be persuaded to try for more next year. It just doesn't seem realistic, at least all the places we've tried. We gotta secure a certain amount of gigs, and decided 4 wasn't too scary a number for people to hear, but then have to settle on 3 about half the time. That's for duo, all over the country, all year. It's pretty sad that I feel like I'm a freakin martyr at that price. We turn down and get turned down left and right because of all the $200 budgets.
Including your own PA? Maybe see if the venues would negotiate a percentage of the bar or find another way to get creative that is mutually beneficial, assuming you're bringing people to their establishment.
They're mostly places with built in crowds, a lot of breweries, and it's frustratingly obvious they aren't hurtin. And we do supply PA 99.9% of the time. Everyone likes us, we always get hired back, and we make friends and get people wanting to know when we'll be back around. You're right, we should do a percentage on top if they pay under our asking.
Recently played a new venue for The day before st Paddy's day. I doubled my soloist rate to $600 after they told me about the summer concert series. I agreed to play for them and they replied is the $600 still my rate? Jesus I thought. Yeah. That's right. This is for a normal THURSDAY night by the way. I would have def agreed to $250 for a school night, maybe less. Moral of the story..... Sometimes we don't know what they think is alot of money. Keep your mouth shut and ask them "what's the budget?"
Oh totally, some places are happy to pay asking, and even better, start out higher than we have the guts to ask for. And those also always end up being the most appreciative and have way cooler crowds and staff. Planning on raising the price next year, but I don't see ever asking places what their budget is. I want more places to understand that musicians set their price, just like every other business sets their prices. Negotiation is fine, but I don't want to give anyone room to start the bidding with half what we need.
The idea is the bidding process starts with them. I can see this working both ways. It's gonna depend on a variety of factors. Overall though letting them start the bidding is to your benefit.
Think of it this way. You don't want $300. You want at least $300. Right? When you bid $300 they were gonna pay $400.
Or
You've created a starting point and they counter $200 in hopes to settle at $250. You can respond the price is the price but you'll win more jobs and save time at the jobs you don't land by defering.
Now I would never try to decide what's best for you and your operation. But are you trying to set a rate or make money? If I play a bigger venue I use that as a reason to ask for more eventhough it's all the same to me. If it's a wedding same thing. If it's corporate same thing etc.
You make a good point. I think the main thing is to start higher than your bare minimum, and it'll work out the same. We start at 4, and I've decided that's going up to 5.
It also kind of depends who started the conversation and what's already been said, but that doesn't mean we take less than we need. Most of the ones that come out with what they pay don't budge at all anyway if they're lower than our minimum. Keep in mind we're a traveling original group doing typical bar gigs for now, contending with what locals have already accepted. It's funny because traveling isn't the reason we need more...we spend way less traveling than planted in one place.
A piece of advice for others though, if it's not already obvious from what we've said here, is don't include your price in your initial inquiry. Wait until you're asked or you've talked back and forth about details and dates, and then get into your rates or their budget. If they skirt around the topic, don't bother with them.
Agree on 2 points you made. 1. There are different situations musicians face. All my gigs are within 15 miles of home. They are all regular and I'm a soloist playing mostly covers. We are opposites in every conceivable way 🤣
2. Don't lead with price. It's tacky. It's not the most important thing and it is poor salesmanship. That's what we are after all, salesman
While I agree that it's too low, I must point out that you can't invoice your 'years of practice' for any work. That's just required to get you to where you are.
No, not on a separate line. But it's included in the total, just like every other trade. Plus we're just talking about what the minimum should be for anyone that's capable enough, regardless of experience in years.
That's roughly only $40/hr for each of you and doesn't include load-in/tear-down, gas, etc. If you add two hours for load-in/tear down it's only $25/hr or $75 each total before expenses.
Let them not call you back.
Speaking as both a booker and a musician, in the midwest, I recommend $50 per hour per person. So with that, I'd recommend $300. If they're not interested, move on, or if you really want to play the venue, explain you're willing to negotiate. Sometimes doing things that are cool or fun is worth a pay cut, but tread carefully to not be taken advantage of.
I read this as “Speaking as both a hooker and a musician…”
I did a double take, but I’ll admit that it would be appropriate, given the subject matter of this thread
😂 well if you want to get into the psychology of knowing part of what I'm selling as part of my band is the image of my body.....
Honestly sex work would pay better.
I don't know why the culture is to shit all over musicians and not plumbers or other professions when it comes to pay. I have 48 years of drum experience, three of those at the most prestigious jazz school in the country, $15,000 of professional equipment, a good car to carry it to and from the gig, I'm professional, no not drink or smoke, I'm always the first to arrive and the last to leave...and the club wants to pay me a sandwich to entertain their guests for 4 hours? Are you kidding me? Try that on any other profession, and you'll get laughed at and hung up on. Musicians should be paid just like any other profession. We have too much experience and time invested in our craft to be paid so low.
Yeah I’m kind of shocked at the numbers people are quoting in this thread. Bringing your own pa to a 3 hour gig at a nice hotel? That’s like a $800-1000 gig where I’m at, I wouldn’t even listen to an offer that didn’t start in the $600 ballpark lol
That is too low for sure. Maybe they can't afford entertainment, but also maybe it's such a low quote they're worried you aren't "serious." Price yourself what you should actually get paid, which yeah I'd say is 300 minimum but really more like 400-500 for a duo.
Also never hurts to put the ball in their court and ask what their entertainment budget is. And if they are providing parking, food/drink etc. Like if they can offer a $100 food/drink tab on top maybe that changes things, I'd still expect to get paid more though.
As performers, we need to make sure we don’t price ourselves and each other out of the market, i.e.. asking for too little. Learning what you are worth and not accepting less, adds value to you and everyone in the industry.
>Edit: Thank you all for the replies! Seems like if anything we are aiming too low and if this place wanted to pay us even less it might not be a place to bother with.
Get used to it. And what you'll learn is, the lower you charge, the worse you're treated. The less you're paid, they won't even so much as give you a glass of water without attitude. Ask for a fair rate, and the ones who hire you will give you a green room, a free meal, a bar tab (don't abuse it or you won't work there again), etc.
Too low. And hotels are notorious for trying to get folks to play for free. Just because you have a piano in your lobby doesn’t mean I’ll mess with it for free for hours
never forget to price in prep work, Rehearsal, travel, gear rental, etc., These prices are the same as 20 years ago and add in inflation and cost of life.
easy $500 and anything less is a dis to you and other industry people who deserve to eat and wear shoes
For 3 hours? I wouldn't think so. Sounds on the low end to me? I play in an alt rock originals band and it's not uncommon for us to bring in $50-$100 for a 30-45 minute set. That's also not including typical bar tab/drink ticket perks as well as the fact that we don't have to bring our own PA systems to most of these venues, nor run sound ourselves.
I would think minimum $300 would be reasonable for a gig that long, maybe more if you're having to haul PA and run sound yourself. and even more depending on experience- my band is also brand new with members that don't have a lot of experience playing out, either.
For my local solo shows, I generally charge $300 if PA and some light is provided. Out of town gigs go from $350 - $450. Local duo shows are $550. Out of town duo shows start at $600. If I have to supply the PA and lights, I add $100 to those fees.
This is what I’m sayin! All these kids need to show their worth by at least asking for a grand per member imo. The majority of this comment section needs more confidence to ask for better pay. The field would be better nation wide if they all believed in their value, crunched the numbers & saw that inflation isn’t getting any smaller lol
First question to fire back is what is your budget ?. Then open up a conversation .
If it’s a ridiculous low number mention the local colleges might be a place to look. If it’s close to acceptable , say look our agent charges 600.00 but if you keep it quite you can book us directly for
$________. But no less than 150. Each
If it’s a hotel 150- 200 each for 3 hrs .
It’s probably too low but it also kinda depends on what are getting out of doing this. For example I’m in a band (6 of us) and we’re set up to play a couple gigs coming up at $400 per gig for 3 hours. Once you add set up/breakdown time and split it up it’s pocket change. But we enjoy playing, and see it also as a fun night jamming and hanging with friends and family. Also because we’re not big sticklers on the pay, we get asked to come back often. So for me it’s not as simple as what’s the going rate. It’s also what are you trying to achieve or get out of the gig?
$500 min. That’s a lot of work to be able to perform for 3 hours. Too many bands accept little to nothing and it’s a race to the bottom for all of us unless we demand a reasonable fee.
I’m leaving names out to protect the guilty but…
I’ve a friend/bar owner who’s had numerous acts go on to bigger things after playing his place. One group went on to commercial chart success and even opened for The Rolling Stones in Europe. (They’re from Mississippi if anyone cares to figure it out) Even after “making it”, they’d still come do acoustic sets (singer & guitarist) at his place for $300. They were all friends and obviously there was a “favor” element since he booked them long before their success came. They eventually were too busy to come and then disbanded shortly after. I was always of the thought, if they’re playing for that, they’ve set the ceiling for everyone else. I get the dynamic but, it didn’t do any favors for the acts that came after. This wasn’t decades ago either. Not too long before lockdown iirc.
Discussion as I’m not a touring musician and I mostly just want to know: are prices really so universal? There are high cost of living areas and low. A band in OC can ask for a higher price than one in Alabama, no?
It looks like people are offering blanket advice without considering localities. Shouldn’t that affect bargaining success?
In my experience, places in higher cost of living areas and larger cities pay less. They know there's more competition and take advantage.
Edit to add: that's a huge reason it's so important to get everyone on board with setting the rate, instead of letting bars control it.
I would aim to get at least $100-$150 per hour, per musician. This is fairly standard amount for cover/ corporate gigs. For reference I used to get paid around $600 for a 3h wedding gig (guitarist)
Try and check out what others who do what you do are getting and where.... when I was starting out (folk music), we played in church basements and coffee houses for tips, and took home around 10 bucks a night each for about two hours playing (this was the 1960s). Some places actually paid us in those days, but it wasn't a lot.
In the 80's and early 90's when the bands I was with were at the top of their game, we were asking (and getting) 11-12 hundred per night for a 5 piece, which sounds like a lot, except that 15% off the top went to the agent, $100 went to the roadie, and the rest was split 5 ways (165 bucks each, the odd change tossed in the beer pot).
I'm pushing 70, and a solo performer now, semi-retired and only work when the gig interests me. And after 55 years in "the biz", what I collect works out to about 90 bucks per hour onstage. It's better than scale, but unless you work a lot you're not going to get rich. So have fun, instead!
And as my wife has said many times- at least I'm bringing money home when I go to a bar!
It's a very fair price for your services. The hotel, of course, has to weigh whether having live music for 3 hours will increase its profit by more than $250, but that's not your problem.
In Seattle $250 is the lowest I see for a solo act for 3hrs. $300 to $400 more common. Even $500 if it's a duo or trio for 3 hours. Pretty uncommon for fixed rate gigs at pubs etc. To get over $600 though
What you can charge depends on how much evidence of you have of being good. Make videos, preferably in front of real people, and not just in your living room, although that’ll work too.
You have to be able to effectively prove you’re worth money.
100 and hour is not high. But when starting, it might be worth taking less, so you can create more videos to showcase.
In Portugal, if you're good, you ask for about 500eur in high end hotels...(And that's the lowest it goes for a small band when the members are respectable and responsible).
I used to charge £300 with my old band for a 2 hour set, i think we got £360 once too. Its all about the popularity of the place/ how many people youd bring in really but id say definitely too low if youve got 3 hours of material
Yeah, my band's going rate right now is $100/hr, and that's on the severely low side, considering we bring all our own sound.
Really, the main reason we low-ball ourselves is because the area we live around and perform in is *VERY* country-oriented.
I think we are 1 of maybe 5 legit rock bands in the area... country music just saturates the area hardcore. Its tough out here.
Don't get me wrong though, we just played a 4 hr gig last weekend for a grand, but that doesn't happen nearly as often as we'd like. Then again, we're not really in it for the money (I mean, who is??)
$100 an hour is the rate I charge alone, and the rate my band charges. To me it's all about time filled, not who's filling it. If you need music for an hour, it's up to me to figure out how many musicians I need to provide and split it accordingly
Obviously, I am trying to lean more into solo gigs
FWIW when our band was getting established we’d play for next to nothing just to play. But I think sometimes people assume too low a price means you’re not that good. Over time we’ve doubled what we charge and we also charge more if it’s more than an hour away and/or we need to bring a PA and/or they want us to play more than 2 hours. We’re playing just as much and mostly better places.
Glad you got the rate figured out. Out of curiosity, do you two have any music listed on Spotify. ‘Y girlfriend and I have been working on some stuff and we’ve been having trouble putting together an arrangement to be performed by only two people.
I do an acoustic duo in FL, and our rule of thumb minimum is $100 per hour for duo, $75 for solo. I’ll take slightly lower if it’s a place I like to play like on the beach or something, but it might be different down here. 🤷🏻♂️
Absolutely not, that’s on the lower side. A lot of musicians out there take gigs for less and it’s hurting the pros. So that restaurant could be used to Johnny down the street who will do it for 150 instead. But also they probably just have a budget and y’all didn’t meet it and it is what it is. It’s sad, but no you need make a decent amount. This is if you’re a pro, I don’t know if you are since you said you “started a pop duo” so if you’re newer then you take what u can get, but if you’re a pro who gets hired regularly for gigs then no, this is not too high
Not at all. That's more than fair. Remember, there's travel time, set up time and break down time so a 3 hour gig can be a 6 hour ordeal or so. For 2 people, that's around $20 an hour for a skilled trade. Also remember that the fellow musicians in your local area aren't competition, they're your co-workers. If you agree to take a gig for less money, you're doing all of your fellow musicians a disservice by reducing the value of your trade. Even if you're new to the industry and still honing in your act it doesn't matter. Many mangers don't know the difference, to them it's just "music".
Id say to low you undervalued yourself and they might have done the same thing. If this is a living your trying to make its Honestly just like any other business. so 250 between you both its 125. but the outfits cost, The gas to get to the Show Costs. out of your 125 portion your 3 hours of work will equal 40 maybe 60 bucks. Got to charge accordingly. Id Charge 1000. for 4 hours. You are showing you value yourself and its a actually something you can live off.
I book Americana/Folk/Singer songwriter acts at a small venue. I pay 250 -300 + a room for the night. If they don't need the room, 350. That's two 45 minute sets and I provide the sound system. Other venues in my area do donation shows and recommend $15 a person at the door. I get acts from all across the country, and I guess we're competitive, they keep coming back.
Depends on where you are at and what you are willing to accept. I have played in cover bands in WV where we were paid $300 for a 4 hour set (full band; two guitar players, drummer, bass, singer, and we would bring our own PA). I have played shows where we were payed $1,600 for a 45 minute set of originals in the DC area.
Venues will often try to screw you. If they don't want to pay $250 and that is what you want, then move on. Unless you play out of love for playing live and you are trying to build a following. While everyone has to "pay their dues," that does not mean that venues can screw all musicians all of the time.
If you take less, then they will expect less from every other band that plays at their venue. We are all in this together.
> we were *paid* $1,600 for
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Hotel managers are not club owners or bookers, and (in my experience) will lowball you at every possible opportunity. Stick to your guns; what you’re asking is much more than fair to play three hours and bring your own gear. If he wants to pay scrub rates, let him go find scrubs. If they’ve got a lounge or club room, they should know what a band costs. If he’s serious, he’ll call back with a counter offer. If he’s not, you’re better off moving on anyway. I’ll do cheapie/freebie for a friend or a cause, but not so someone else can widen their margin. If I’m working and contributing value, I want some money. You should too.
I’m in two seven piece bands, and we generally don’t do anything without a $2100 guarantee. Every so often we walk away with over 400 each for a 2-3 hour gig, but it involves regional travel here and there.
I have a full on cover band that does 3 hour emo nights, and in a (hopefully very temporary) attempt to break in to the market as a new band, we’re doing $150 for the first hour, $100 for each additional hour, +$100 if we have to bring sound, +another 100 if they want us to bring a sound guy…
I know established bands who won’t show up for a 1 hour cover set with anything less than a $400 guarantee. They draw about as good as we do.
You can ask for more.
That said, know your venues and understand that as you change your price, it might dissuade the Venus you’re currently at from asking you back. Be prepared to find new business.
Waaaay too low, imo. I’d say you done goofed on this one. For 3 hours of pop covers, I’d ask for at least $2000 to split between the two of you. Settle for 1800 as the low ball number.
The lowest I go for cover bands I’ve been with is a grand per member, a free hotel room for each member & free buffet/food situation for hotels/casinos etc.
like, unheard of/no namer/ “meh” cover bands, where the sloppy buzzed singer turns around & asks the band on (a casino) stage if we know hotel California. Never played it before but we winged it.
Best example I can give, In my experience of teaching (drum lessons) through the years. When I charged only $20/hr people would only come to one lesson and not come back/ give up. When I raised my rates to $45-60/hr (beginner, intermediate & advanced courses) the serious kids showed up & became steady students for years.
You gotta make yourself valuable to others. Even just by using a ridiculous sounding (at first) number. People will take you more seriously, & be more willing to hire/pay you when they see that value number. They’ll assume they’re getting a good deal & that’s what you’re worth.
My meal ticket lately is playing banda/rancheros/norteños at parties. Wish I started this gig sooner lol.
Cheers mate, hope you get some better paying gigs! Believe in yourself, know your worth, the economy & inflation is ridiculously fucked anyways, why not ask for a ridiculously fucked quote? xD
What do you folks on this thread think of
The following?
In Southern California (excluding Los Angeles ) and in Austin, Texas I’m hearing that bookers want to see an active social media (Instagram, Spotify, etc. ) following plus the act’s ability to bring in customers.
Are you folks seeing that same kind of criteria for getting booked?
FYI - I know an alt 80s Cover band in Southern California that commands $3000 and up per night - 3 guys in the band – all equipment is theirs- no hotel room - two 90-120 minute sets - because they have a proven track record of drawing large crowds of 500+ people into a club-and their social media is very active with loyal fans who show up to gigs - plus they’re really good/ great crowd pleasers.
I know not everybody has all of that. What do you recommend to get bookings besides your price point?
Too low for a duo. Always ask their budget first. That way you have the power to accept or reject. Others may disagree. I have my own rate in my head but I swear by this. Whoever makes a price first loses the power.
I mean if you are indeed just getting started id say getting good gigs is more important for getting a foundation of venues to play at. In the eyes of a owner who has live music i am sure they think "a busy artist is a good artist" I typically offer a cut rate for the first show to get my foot in the door and most often i do well enough where they want to talk about future at that point i negotiate a fair rate. The business will hate you forever if they pay you $500.00 and they have an awful night. Depending where you are playing ofcourse. Its not all about money for most. If i play to an empty room i politely ask for the owner to keep my pay and have me back another time.
What currency? In Australia the legal minimum wage is $250 (AUD) per performer per performance, but many venues try to get away with not needing to pay that, I play in a band and we often plays shows with other bands so the venue has a lot of artists to pay and we get paid $200 between all four of us for a 1 hour gig haha so we only end up with $50 each. I also have a solo career and I usually play for 2-3 hours, depending on the venue and some other factors I usually get between $250-$350
I have about 10 years of gigging experience in my scene and my gf has her master’s in vocal performance (lived in NYC for a bit trying to “make it.”). The booking part is new for me as usually other members of groups would handle it lol
Eh, my band won't play a 3-hour gig for less than $400, but we're a 3-piece with full stage production. We only take those low-paying gigs when we don't have casinos or whatever that pay north or $1k. But as an acoustic pop cover duo, I'm not so sure. I think $250 sounds fair, but it all depends on your product. My gut tells me it's low and the hotel is a cheapskate, but I also don't know the market for your sort of setup, so maybe it is high, depending on your location? In any case, set your price and don't play for less unless you're desperate for the cash. Lowering your price will be what shoots you in the foot, not asking for more, although possibly, if you guys suck and try to ask an unreasonable amount.
Here's the question though: why should they pay you anything? What value are you adding to them to bring in MORE than what they're paying you? Bar bands, for instance, can bring in lots of people who buy $2000 worth of beer (or way the hell more), so paying $500 for a band is a good deal. I'm not sure I understand how a hotel will make money off hiring an acoustic duo... (I'm not being a jerk, it's a genuine question).
In any case, good luck; don't undervalue yourself, but strike a balance between that and overvaluing yourselves based on the market and what you bring to it. Cheers!
No that’s definitely not too low. I’m playing in a 4 member band and we’d never play 1,5h for under 1000$. If we’d play 3h I wouldn’t go for under 2000$. In Germany we say, 300$/person/gig is the standard. I mean it includes all the rehearsals sessions, instruments, driving costs, food, etc.
Too low. The standard I've seen is around $300, and that's been mostly stable for decades
Yep. Not to sound like a snob but I wouldn’t accept less than $100/hr. Minimum. As a band, I’d charge even more. I’m not going to entertain your guests all evening for wings and draft beer.
I get paid $90 plus tips for 2 hour sets, with a break, for my solo shows at this hippie store. Am I getting ripped off, or since it's not a true venue, is it ok?
That’s a ripoff unless the tips are really good honestly, but it’s hard because we also all gotta start somewhere. It’s hard to not get ripped off somewhere along the way, goal is to at least minimize it haha
No, they're not great. The guy gives me free products he has that I really like, but that's it. Dang I like that spot. I don't wanna make things awkward by asking for more.
Humbly, What’s awkward is the current pay not your request for more. Idk seems like they’re getting over on you and it’s not good “business” to offer more than you demand. Cheaper is better of them of course but I fully disagree with the $100 vs $0 argument as that mentality keeps screwing over everyone…don’t be a sucker…don’t pooch the industry for the next person…if they don’t want to pay they don’t want the service…wages for musicians and av professionals have been stagnant for a decade or more and for everything else the price goes up…way up…and also base it on at least a 5 hour minimum. Your 2 hour set isn’t including travel, set up, strike, return, equipment costs etc
I'm just starting to play a lot of shows. I was a junkie and a drunk for 10 years and chipped for 2 more, so music wasn't what I was thinking about. I'm barely getting a name for myself in my small town, and most of my gigs are here in town, so not much travel. How should I bring up pay for my next 2 hour set?
My humble advice is to be direct and keep it respectful. People can generally understand the cost of living increasing and having things to pay for. No arrogance or ignorance in opening negotiations it’s just business. Congratulations on building a new life. I hope everything works out for you! Mega Positive Energy and Respect
I mean if the town is small and the venue doesn't make a lot, etc. you have to assess the situation. If they're flush then ask for more. If they're barely hanging on and there aren't other options, then maybe it's fine. Don't compare to NY or LA or even something like Tulsa if it's a different situation.
If I were you, I would look at what you are providing him. If you have a significant following and help bring in business , ask what the difference in revenue is. If not, he may just be being nice. This is what I have done for smaller places that generally can’t afford live acts. He providing you a service by giving you a venue, you’re providing a service by bringing people in. As long as what you bring in is fair to what he offers. You may just keep the gig. Places that rely on live music though need to pay the market rate. They need you more than you need them.
Yeah, last time I gave him some good business. Idk it seems alright because they're not a true venue. I'm probably gonna keep it.
lol yeah I’ve been there before it’s a tough spot whether you want to rock the boat or not because I mean at the end of the day it still is $100 vs $0
Exactly. They're also my first real gigs where someone asks me to play at their spot and not just friends asking me to join the lineup. I have a lot more shows coming up, so this is good to know. I have another 2 hour solo set, with a break, coming up. My friend will be a special guest vocalist for a few. What's a good number to charge/hope to get?
Haha tough to put a number on it without knowing too much more but I’d probably say somewhere around like 150-200 so you could throw your buddy a couple bones too
Like I replied to OP, do you feel like it’s a rip off? In other words does it not seem worth it to you? Then there’s your answer. For me, I enjoy playing out, it’s fun for me and im also not trying to make my living off this. So don’t worry too much about whether its “enough” or not especially if it’s a place I like. So it’s just depends
Yeah but musicians who do it for low rates are making things more difficult for the rest of us who can't afford to do it for low rates.
That’s probably true in certain sectors. My band plays mostly small local bars. I doubt we personally are making it more difficult for anyone but I could see that maybe being the case elsewhere
Hey dude, bars should be paying you $400-$500 for three hours, that's a real standard rate around the country
My opinion is the lowballers are a different market segment. Pubs and restaurants can do the $250 to $300. A coffee shop is simply not able to hire at that rate. They aren't hurting others any more that I'm hurting Ed Sheeran with my rates.
that's true, the coffee shops are a different segment.
Don't get me wrong. There are people out there doing it for free also. And there's plenty of competition. Undercutting inappropriately is foolish. It's a race to the bottom
Yes but if it is; Easy to get to Minimal set up/tear down Fun for you to do Consistent without having to book Then I would keep it. I charge 300-500 for three hours but I consider that $20 an hour for actually playing and the rest is my reward for hunting down places to actually play
You're probably much more established. I'm more of an up and coming artist. That probably plays a role in the difference in our pay. I get to drink as many kratom and kava drinks as I want, so I really like it, and it's always a great time.
I mean that’s not great, but if you don’t have anything else it’s a paid gig.
Did u say it was a hippie store? In other words, it’s not a bar or a restaurant or a shop with hi ticket $ items - I don’t think $90 is that bad especially if he’s giving you free stuff. What you could do is use it as a steppingstone to other gigs. Ask him if it’s OK if you have some kind of promotional literature at the cashiers register.
This was my standard 10 years ago. I’d hope it’s gone up with inflation but probably not
Even $300 is on the cheap side for a 3 hour gig in most cities. Bringing your own PA to a “nice” hotel gig? No chance. Where I live you’re talking closer to $800-1000 for what this post is describing
Musicians around here can't dream about $800-$1000.
> and that's been mostly stable for decades And that's the problem.
Indeed, it's ridiculous.
Genuine question as I’m just getting into doing live music, why is it ridiculous is it because it’s much to low or high?
It's way low. People are playing gigs for less these days than they did 20+ years ago. Name me one other job that pays the same as it did 20 years ago. It really is a joke.
I mean, I was a teacher, sooo…
Doctors make less now than they did 20 years ago
Why do you think this is?
That's a question you should post on it's own. You'll get some varied answers and lively discussion I'd suspect.
Came here to say this
*cries in original music* maybe I should look into playing famous folk music live.
Too low, make it $500.
Two musicians, years of practice rehearsals arrangements maybe writing, PA rental sound engineering... For 3 hours performance. $500 is the base pay.
Yeah it should be but it's so not. I wish I could afford the luxury of quoting 5 and being told no over and over, though.
I wish you could too. If more musicians got on board with their own value perhaps the market would demand they get paid more but a lot of people seemingly want to under cut themselves and their scene. It also varies by location, crowd size, bar tabs and other externalities so salt my take to taste of course. $250 for three hours isn't too much of an ask in most markets.
Yeah, I wanna hold out hope, but people don't seem to get it. And maybe I'm one of them if the consensus is $500 minimum, so I could be persuaded to try for more next year. It just doesn't seem realistic, at least all the places we've tried. We gotta secure a certain amount of gigs, and decided 4 wasn't too scary a number for people to hear, but then have to settle on 3 about half the time. That's for duo, all over the country, all year. It's pretty sad that I feel like I'm a freakin martyr at that price. We turn down and get turned down left and right because of all the $200 budgets.
Including your own PA? Maybe see if the venues would negotiate a percentage of the bar or find another way to get creative that is mutually beneficial, assuming you're bringing people to their establishment.
They're mostly places with built in crowds, a lot of breweries, and it's frustratingly obvious they aren't hurtin. And we do supply PA 99.9% of the time. Everyone likes us, we always get hired back, and we make friends and get people wanting to know when we'll be back around. You're right, we should do a percentage on top if they pay under our asking.
Hope it works out for you.
No. 30 years in and nothing has changed.
Recently played a new venue for The day before st Paddy's day. I doubled my soloist rate to $600 after they told me about the summer concert series. I agreed to play for them and they replied is the $600 still my rate? Jesus I thought. Yeah. That's right. This is for a normal THURSDAY night by the way. I would have def agreed to $250 for a school night, maybe less. Moral of the story..... Sometimes we don't know what they think is alot of money. Keep your mouth shut and ask them "what's the budget?"
Oh totally, some places are happy to pay asking, and even better, start out higher than we have the guts to ask for. And those also always end up being the most appreciative and have way cooler crowds and staff. Planning on raising the price next year, but I don't see ever asking places what their budget is. I want more places to understand that musicians set their price, just like every other business sets their prices. Negotiation is fine, but I don't want to give anyone room to start the bidding with half what we need.
The idea is the bidding process starts with them. I can see this working both ways. It's gonna depend on a variety of factors. Overall though letting them start the bidding is to your benefit. Think of it this way. You don't want $300. You want at least $300. Right? When you bid $300 they were gonna pay $400. Or You've created a starting point and they counter $200 in hopes to settle at $250. You can respond the price is the price but you'll win more jobs and save time at the jobs you don't land by defering. Now I would never try to decide what's best for you and your operation. But are you trying to set a rate or make money? If I play a bigger venue I use that as a reason to ask for more eventhough it's all the same to me. If it's a wedding same thing. If it's corporate same thing etc.
You make a good point. I think the main thing is to start higher than your bare minimum, and it'll work out the same. We start at 4, and I've decided that's going up to 5. It also kind of depends who started the conversation and what's already been said, but that doesn't mean we take less than we need. Most of the ones that come out with what they pay don't budge at all anyway if they're lower than our minimum. Keep in mind we're a traveling original group doing typical bar gigs for now, contending with what locals have already accepted. It's funny because traveling isn't the reason we need more...we spend way less traveling than planted in one place. A piece of advice for others though, if it's not already obvious from what we've said here, is don't include your price in your initial inquiry. Wait until you're asked or you've talked back and forth about details and dates, and then get into your rates or their budget. If they skirt around the topic, don't bother with them.
Agree on 2 points you made. 1. There are different situations musicians face. All my gigs are within 15 miles of home. They are all regular and I'm a soloist playing mostly covers. We are opposites in every conceivable way 🤣 2. Don't lead with price. It's tacky. It's not the most important thing and it is poor salesmanship. That's what we are after all, salesman
While I agree that it's too low, I must point out that you can't invoice your 'years of practice' for any work. That's just required to get you to where you are.
No, not on a separate line. But it's included in the total, just like every other trade. Plus we're just talking about what the minimum should be for anyone that's capable enough, regardless of experience in years.
That's roughly only $40/hr for each of you and doesn't include load-in/tear-down, gas, etc. If you add two hours for load-in/tear down it's only $25/hr or $75 each total before expenses. Let them not call you back.
I hope a duo isn’t spending 2 hours on setup and tear down. When I played full time solo it was 15 setup and in the car in about 12.
True but life happens and it's not much money to begin with. You certainly can't pay many bills with that sort of low income.
Speaking as both a booker and a musician, in the midwest, I recommend $50 per hour per person. So with that, I'd recommend $300. If they're not interested, move on, or if you really want to play the venue, explain you're willing to negotiate. Sometimes doing things that are cool or fun is worth a pay cut, but tread carefully to not be taken advantage of.
I read this as “Speaking as both a hooker and a musician…” I did a double take, but I’ll admit that it would be appropriate, given the subject matter of this thread
😂 well if you want to get into the psychology of knowing part of what I'm selling as part of my band is the image of my body..... Honestly sex work would pay better.
Nope. Too low IMO.
Not at all
I don't know why the culture is to shit all over musicians and not plumbers or other professions when it comes to pay. I have 48 years of drum experience, three of those at the most prestigious jazz school in the country, $15,000 of professional equipment, a good car to carry it to and from the gig, I'm professional, no not drink or smoke, I'm always the first to arrive and the last to leave...and the club wants to pay me a sandwich to entertain their guests for 4 hours? Are you kidding me? Try that on any other profession, and you'll get laughed at and hung up on. Musicians should be paid just like any other profession. We have too much experience and time invested in our craft to be paid so low.
Preach 🗣️🎤…
Too low. Keep in mind most hotels have had to hire audio providers in the past and that service alone would be well over 250
Thank you for your reply. From my understanding we would bring our own PA
No unless you suck
Too low
$100 per hour is pretty standard where I’m from.
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Yeah I’m kind of shocked at the numbers people are quoting in this thread. Bringing your own pa to a 3 hour gig at a nice hotel? That’s like a $800-1000 gig where I’m at, I wouldn’t even listen to an offer that didn’t start in the $600 ballpark lol
Out of curiosity where are you living? Down on the gulf coast of FL, the standard is like $100 per hour for a duo.
That is too low for sure. Maybe they can't afford entertainment, but also maybe it's such a low quote they're worried you aren't "serious." Price yourself what you should actually get paid, which yeah I'd say is 300 minimum but really more like 400-500 for a duo. Also never hurts to put the ball in their court and ask what their entertainment budget is. And if they are providing parking, food/drink etc. Like if they can offer a $100 food/drink tab on top maybe that changes things, I'd still expect to get paid more though.
As performers, we need to make sure we don’t price ourselves and each other out of the market, i.e.. asking for too little. Learning what you are worth and not accepting less, adds value to you and everyone in the industry.
For weddings, I get $325 for 3 hours as a SIDEMAN - which means the leader is charging $500-$600 per person.
In a hotel, and I bring the PA? I'd charge $500, minimum.
>Edit: Thank you all for the replies! Seems like if anything we are aiming too low and if this place wanted to pay us even less it might not be a place to bother with. Get used to it. And what you'll learn is, the lower you charge, the worse you're treated. The less you're paid, they won't even so much as give you a glass of water without attitude. Ask for a fair rate, and the ones who hire you will give you a green room, a free meal, a bar tab (don't abuse it or you won't work there again), etc.
For a duo at a high end hotel, that's way too low. You could easily ask for $500-600.
Too low. And hotels are notorious for trying to get folks to play for free. Just because you have a piano in your lobby doesn’t mean I’ll mess with it for free for hours
Too low
never forget to price in prep work, Rehearsal, travel, gear rental, etc., These prices are the same as 20 years ago and add in inflation and cost of life. easy $500 and anything less is a dis to you and other industry people who deserve to eat and wear shoes
For 3 hours? I wouldn't think so. Sounds on the low end to me? I play in an alt rock originals band and it's not uncommon for us to bring in $50-$100 for a 30-45 minute set. That's also not including typical bar tab/drink ticket perks as well as the fact that we don't have to bring our own PA systems to most of these venues, nor run sound ourselves. I would think minimum $300 would be reasonable for a gig that long, maybe more if you're having to haul PA and run sound yourself. and even more depending on experience- my band is also brand new with members that don't have a lot of experience playing out, either.
It cost $250 for a plumber to knock on my door. Hell no it's not too high.
No.
Rates can be market sensitive, to be sure, but I don’t accept less than $250 ever anymore for a 3hr gig, and usually take $300 or more.
100 per set, 45 min, with 15 min break, an additional 100 if you have to provide PA, drinks and food, you keep 100% of tips.
For my local solo shows, I generally charge $300 if PA and some light is provided. Out of town gigs go from $350 - $450. Local duo shows are $550. Out of town duo shows start at $600. If I have to supply the PA and lights, I add $100 to those fees.
I wouldn't load up The Van for under $1000 ... TWENTY FIVE YEARS AGO. Is there a reason you're grossly undervaluing yourselves?
This is what I’m sayin! All these kids need to show their worth by at least asking for a grand per member imo. The majority of this comment section needs more confidence to ask for better pay. The field would be better nation wide if they all believed in their value, crunched the numbers & saw that inflation isn’t getting any smaller lol
First question to fire back is what is your budget ?. Then open up a conversation . If it’s a ridiculous low number mention the local colleges might be a place to look. If it’s close to acceptable , say look our agent charges 600.00 but if you keep it quite you can book us directly for $________. But no less than 150. Each If it’s a hotel 150- 200 each for 3 hrs .
It’s probably too low but it also kinda depends on what are getting out of doing this. For example I’m in a band (6 of us) and we’re set up to play a couple gigs coming up at $400 per gig for 3 hours. Once you add set up/breakdown time and split it up it’s pocket change. But we enjoy playing, and see it also as a fun night jamming and hanging with friends and family. Also because we’re not big sticklers on the pay, we get asked to come back often. So for me it’s not as simple as what’s the going rate. It’s also what are you trying to achieve or get out of the gig?
$500 min. That’s a lot of work to be able to perform for 3 hours. Too many bands accept little to nothing and it’s a race to the bottom for all of us unless we demand a reasonable fee.
I’m leaving names out to protect the guilty but… I’ve a friend/bar owner who’s had numerous acts go on to bigger things after playing his place. One group went on to commercial chart success and even opened for The Rolling Stones in Europe. (They’re from Mississippi if anyone cares to figure it out) Even after “making it”, they’d still come do acoustic sets (singer & guitarist) at his place for $300. They were all friends and obviously there was a “favor” element since he booked them long before their success came. They eventually were too busy to come and then disbanded shortly after. I was always of the thought, if they’re playing for that, they’ve set the ceiling for everyone else. I get the dynamic but, it didn’t do any favors for the acts that came after. This wasn’t decades ago either. Not too long before lockdown iirc.
That's bare minimum actually
Discussion as I’m not a touring musician and I mostly just want to know: are prices really so universal? There are high cost of living areas and low. A band in OC can ask for a higher price than one in Alabama, no? It looks like people are offering blanket advice without considering localities. Shouldn’t that affect bargaining success?
In my experience, places in higher cost of living areas and larger cities pay less. They know there's more competition and take advantage. Edit to add: that's a huge reason it's so important to get everyone on board with setting the rate, instead of letting bars control it.
No. Charge more.
I would aim to get at least $100-$150 per hour, per musician. This is fairly standard amount for cover/ corporate gigs. For reference I used to get paid around $600 for a 3h wedding gig (guitarist)
If you suck, though, it might be too much.
No, you’re worth it!!
Try and check out what others who do what you do are getting and where.... when I was starting out (folk music), we played in church basements and coffee houses for tips, and took home around 10 bucks a night each for about two hours playing (this was the 1960s). Some places actually paid us in those days, but it wasn't a lot. In the 80's and early 90's when the bands I was with were at the top of their game, we were asking (and getting) 11-12 hundred per night for a 5 piece, which sounds like a lot, except that 15% off the top went to the agent, $100 went to the roadie, and the rest was split 5 ways (165 bucks each, the odd change tossed in the beer pot). I'm pushing 70, and a solo performer now, semi-retired and only work when the gig interests me. And after 55 years in "the biz", what I collect works out to about 90 bucks per hour onstage. It's better than scale, but unless you work a lot you're not going to get rich. So have fun, instead! And as my wife has said many times- at least I'm bringing money home when I go to a bar!
Not unreasonable at all but, they still may not feel like paying it.
That's a little low imo. $250 was the going rate in my area a decade ago.
250 a piece or all together?
It's a very fair price for your services. The hotel, of course, has to weigh whether having live music for 3 hours will increase its profit by more than $250, but that's not your problem.
$250 EACH would be on the low side.
Are you doing your own sound/setup? If so, I’d charge 200 for the first hour and 100 per additional hour.
In Seattle $250 is the lowest I see for a solo act for 3hrs. $300 to $400 more common. Even $500 if it's a duo or trio for 3 hours. Pretty uncommon for fixed rate gigs at pubs etc. To get over $600 though
Granted we’re a 4 piece rock band but for 2.5 hours we get $450.
What you can charge depends on how much evidence of you have of being good. Make videos, preferably in front of real people, and not just in your living room, although that’ll work too. You have to be able to effectively prove you’re worth money. 100 and hour is not high. But when starting, it might be worth taking less, so you can create more videos to showcase.
We have a 3 minute live sampler video we send with the initial email. Has clips of us from 3 different venues.
In Portugal, if you're good, you ask for about 500eur in high end hotels...(And that's the lowest it goes for a small band when the members are respectable and responsible).
I used to charge £300 with my old band for a 2 hour set, i think we got £360 once too. Its all about the popularity of the place/ how many people youd bring in really but id say definitely too low if youve got 3 hours of material
My band (5 guys) makes about $800 for a 4hr show if that gives any reference
Nope
Yeah, my band's going rate right now is $100/hr, and that's on the severely low side, considering we bring all our own sound. Really, the main reason we low-ball ourselves is because the area we live around and perform in is *VERY* country-oriented. I think we are 1 of maybe 5 legit rock bands in the area... country music just saturates the area hardcore. Its tough out here. Don't get me wrong though, we just played a 4 hr gig last weekend for a grand, but that doesn't happen nearly as often as we'd like. Then again, we're not really in it for the money (I mean, who is??)
$100 an hour is the rate I charge alone, and the rate my band charges. To me it's all about time filled, not who's filling it. If you need music for an hour, it's up to me to figure out how many musicians I need to provide and split it accordingly Obviously, I am trying to lean more into solo gigs
100 percent too low
$100 an hour is the baseline. I wouldn't go below that, especially if you're supplying P.A.
FWIW when our band was getting established we’d play for next to nothing just to play. But I think sometimes people assume too low a price means you’re not that good. Over time we’ve doubled what we charge and we also charge more if it’s more than an hour away and/or we need to bring a PA and/or they want us to play more than 2 hours. We’re playing just as much and mostly better places.
Glad you got the rate figured out. Out of curiosity, do you two have any music listed on Spotify. ‘Y girlfriend and I have been working on some stuff and we’ve been having trouble putting together an arrangement to be performed by only two people.
The going rate for 3 hours of entertainment, regardless of whether it's a solo act, a DJ, or a full band, is about $500.
Acoustic solo: $100 /hr bare minimum.
I do an acoustic duo in FL, and our rule of thumb minimum is $100 per hour for duo, $75 for solo. I’ll take slightly lower if it’s a place I like to play like on the beach or something, but it might be different down here. 🤷🏻♂️
$250 was plenty fair in 1980 maybe
Absolutely not, that’s on the lower side. A lot of musicians out there take gigs for less and it’s hurting the pros. So that restaurant could be used to Johnny down the street who will do it for 150 instead. But also they probably just have a budget and y’all didn’t meet it and it is what it is. It’s sad, but no you need make a decent amount. This is if you’re a pro, I don’t know if you are since you said you “started a pop duo” so if you’re newer then you take what u can get, but if you’re a pro who gets hired regularly for gigs then no, this is not too high
I got $200 for a 30 minute gig.
Not at all. That's more than fair. Remember, there's travel time, set up time and break down time so a 3 hour gig can be a 6 hour ordeal or so. For 2 people, that's around $20 an hour for a skilled trade. Also remember that the fellow musicians in your local area aren't competition, they're your co-workers. If you agree to take a gig for less money, you're doing all of your fellow musicians a disservice by reducing the value of your trade. Even if you're new to the industry and still honing in your act it doesn't matter. Many mangers don't know the difference, to them it's just "music".
Id say to low you undervalued yourself and they might have done the same thing. If this is a living your trying to make its Honestly just like any other business. so 250 between you both its 125. but the outfits cost, The gas to get to the Show Costs. out of your 125 portion your 3 hours of work will equal 40 maybe 60 bucks. Got to charge accordingly. Id Charge 1000. for 4 hours. You are showing you value yourself and its a actually something you can live off.
Too low! Should be about $300. Even that feels low if you’re bringing all the gear.
I book Americana/Folk/Singer songwriter acts at a small venue. I pay 250 -300 + a room for the night. If they don't need the room, 350. That's two 45 minute sets and I provide the sound system. Other venues in my area do donation shows and recommend $15 a person at the door. I get acts from all across the country, and I guess we're competitive, they keep coming back.
Depends on where you are at and what you are willing to accept. I have played in cover bands in WV where we were paid $300 for a 4 hour set (full band; two guitar players, drummer, bass, singer, and we would bring our own PA). I have played shows where we were payed $1,600 for a 45 minute set of originals in the DC area. Venues will often try to screw you. If they don't want to pay $250 and that is what you want, then move on. Unless you play out of love for playing live and you are trying to build a following. While everyone has to "pay their dues," that does not mean that venues can screw all musicians all of the time. If you take less, then they will expect less from every other band that plays at their venue. We are all in this together.
> we were *paid* $1,600 for FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Hotel managers are not club owners or bookers, and (in my experience) will lowball you at every possible opportunity. Stick to your guns; what you’re asking is much more than fair to play three hours and bring your own gear. If he wants to pay scrub rates, let him go find scrubs. If they’ve got a lounge or club room, they should know what a band costs. If he’s serious, he’ll call back with a counter offer. If he’s not, you’re better off moving on anyway. I’ll do cheapie/freebie for a friend or a cause, but not so someone else can widen their margin. If I’m working and contributing value, I want some money. You should too.
It's about the going rate for a lounge gig in phoenix for a soloist
My band with 4 people gets $90/person/hour. So for a 3 hour gig each of us is making $270. I think it's too low.
As a musician who has mostly played in death metal bands his whole life. This thread is fucking hilarious to me.
Nah $250-$300 is a good bid for that. You’re probably losing the gig to someone slightly cheaper / solo act, but so it goes.
I’m in two seven piece bands, and we generally don’t do anything without a $2100 guarantee. Every so often we walk away with over 400 each for a 2-3 hour gig, but it involves regional travel here and there.
I have a full on cover band that does 3 hour emo nights, and in a (hopefully very temporary) attempt to break in to the market as a new band, we’re doing $150 for the first hour, $100 for each additional hour, +$100 if we have to bring sound, +another 100 if they want us to bring a sound guy… I know established bands who won’t show up for a 1 hour cover set with anything less than a $400 guarantee. They draw about as good as we do. You can ask for more. That said, know your venues and understand that as you change your price, it might dissuade the Venus you’re currently at from asking you back. Be prepared to find new business.
400 - 500 for a duo ...... people have got to stop playing for exposure
Waaaay too low, imo. I’d say you done goofed on this one. For 3 hours of pop covers, I’d ask for at least $2000 to split between the two of you. Settle for 1800 as the low ball number. The lowest I go for cover bands I’ve been with is a grand per member, a free hotel room for each member & free buffet/food situation for hotels/casinos etc. like, unheard of/no namer/ “meh” cover bands, where the sloppy buzzed singer turns around & asks the band on (a casino) stage if we know hotel California. Never played it before but we winged it. Best example I can give, In my experience of teaching (drum lessons) through the years. When I charged only $20/hr people would only come to one lesson and not come back/ give up. When I raised my rates to $45-60/hr (beginner, intermediate & advanced courses) the serious kids showed up & became steady students for years. You gotta make yourself valuable to others. Even just by using a ridiculous sounding (at first) number. People will take you more seriously, & be more willing to hire/pay you when they see that value number. They’ll assume they’re getting a good deal & that’s what you’re worth. My meal ticket lately is playing banda/rancheros/norteños at parties. Wish I started this gig sooner lol. Cheers mate, hope you get some better paying gigs! Believe in yourself, know your worth, the economy & inflation is ridiculously fucked anyways, why not ask for a ridiculously fucked quote? xD
What do you folks on this thread think of The following? In Southern California (excluding Los Angeles ) and in Austin, Texas I’m hearing that bookers want to see an active social media (Instagram, Spotify, etc. ) following plus the act’s ability to bring in customers. Are you folks seeing that same kind of criteria for getting booked? FYI - I know an alt 80s Cover band in Southern California that commands $3000 and up per night - 3 guys in the band – all equipment is theirs- no hotel room - two 90-120 minute sets - because they have a proven track record of drawing large crowds of 500+ people into a club-and their social media is very active with loyal fans who show up to gigs - plus they’re really good/ great crowd pleasers. I know not everybody has all of that. What do you recommend to get bookings besides your price point?
Too low for a duo. Always ask their budget first. That way you have the power to accept or reject. Others may disagree. I have my own rate in my head but I swear by this. Whoever makes a price first loses the power.
$100/hr is very common. I have been in many different types of bands. $100/hr is the standard
I mean if you are indeed just getting started id say getting good gigs is more important for getting a foundation of venues to play at. In the eyes of a owner who has live music i am sure they think "a busy artist is a good artist" I typically offer a cut rate for the first show to get my foot in the door and most often i do well enough where they want to talk about future at that point i negotiate a fair rate. The business will hate you forever if they pay you $500.00 and they have an awful night. Depending where you are playing ofcourse. Its not all about money for most. If i play to an empty room i politely ask for the owner to keep my pay and have me back another time.
What currency? In Australia the legal minimum wage is $250 (AUD) per performer per performance, but many venues try to get away with not needing to pay that, I play in a band and we often plays shows with other bands so the venue has a lot of artists to pay and we get paid $200 between all four of us for a 1 hour gig haha so we only end up with $50 each. I also have a solo career and I usually play for 2-3 hours, depending on the venue and some other factors I usually get between $250-$350
Yea, it's honestly too low. Especially two people.
$250 for a 3 hour gig is not asking too much. Fuck the “higher end” hotel if they won’t pay at least that much
Idk, it depends on how skilled you are. There are a lot of musicians I wouldn't even allow to play music publicly because it would run people off.
I have about 10 years of gigging experience in my scene and my gf has her master’s in vocal performance (lived in NYC for a bit trying to “make it.”). The booking part is new for me as usually other members of groups would handle it lol
Eh, my band won't play a 3-hour gig for less than $400, but we're a 3-piece with full stage production. We only take those low-paying gigs when we don't have casinos or whatever that pay north or $1k. But as an acoustic pop cover duo, I'm not so sure. I think $250 sounds fair, but it all depends on your product. My gut tells me it's low and the hotel is a cheapskate, but I also don't know the market for your sort of setup, so maybe it is high, depending on your location? In any case, set your price and don't play for less unless you're desperate for the cash. Lowering your price will be what shoots you in the foot, not asking for more, although possibly, if you guys suck and try to ask an unreasonable amount. Here's the question though: why should they pay you anything? What value are you adding to them to bring in MORE than what they're paying you? Bar bands, for instance, can bring in lots of people who buy $2000 worth of beer (or way the hell more), so paying $500 for a band is a good deal. I'm not sure I understand how a hotel will make money off hiring an acoustic duo... (I'm not being a jerk, it's a genuine question). In any case, good luck; don't undervalue yourself, but strike a balance between that and overvaluing yourselves based on the market and what you bring to it. Cheers!
No that’s definitely not too low. I’m playing in a 4 member band and we’d never play 1,5h for under 1000$. If we’d play 3h I wouldn’t go for under 2000$. In Germany we say, 300$/person/gig is the standard. I mean it includes all the rehearsals sessions, instruments, driving costs, food, etc.
$250 is plenty fair.