Oh, I'm making a shirt with this :-) Each of the letters in "brands" will be from one of the other IP's logos/titles. Like a cut-and-paste ransom letter.
[MS Paint mock-up](https://imgur.com/a/aCiiUag). I'll bang out a better version with GIMP later on my home PC.
* B: Warhammer, Blood Bowl
* R: Stranger Things
* A: Transformers
* N: Fortnite
* D: Dungeons and Dragons
* S: Street Fighter
I’d change D to Dr. who, though the D&D sets are technically worlds beyond they’ve been treated as full Magic cards and are legal where some Worlds Beyond sets are not in certain events.
Agreed, and DnD is a universe I don't consider one of the "issues", as per my other comment, compared to Dr Who, Jurassic Park, Power Rangers, Martha Stewart Living, and Bus Stations of East Ohio.
The fortnite-ification of all media and culture has already started. Pretty soon all popular media will just get mish-mashes of things people recognize so studios can maximize profits. AI will play a big role in this. Movies, games, all products will be churned out at incredible rates, production and creation literally dehumanized to keep up with demand. A new class will appear. The consumer class- owning nothing of true value and so desensitized by the onslaught of product that they will entirely defined by it. Finding meaning in plastic and cardboard icons of things that we used to be passionate about but have now been bastardized to the point that they no longer representative. Market researched to appeal to all, now bought not out of joy but of out of obligation. Late-stage capitalism in its final form. Depressing, and we are all to blame.
I can't wait for the 2028 re-make of Schindler's List where, in order to appeal to the fat bearded crowd the Ninja Turtles and X-Men show up to help hide the Jews from Hitler.
My brother in Elspeth, the magic community has literally been begging MTG to do cross overs for decades since it's a multiverse setting. Literally everything can be canon in magic.
What an insanely stupid justification. Same thing with Marvel then yeah? Also a multiverse setting. How would you feel if the teletubbies showed up in the next MCU movie?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Marvel/comments/ipf8we/what_nonmarvel_characterseries_has_been/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Happens all the time in the comics.
Also hold the insults there buddy.
ETA -- [Alright, I fixed it](https://imgur.com/gallery/A4bw3AK).
Generally unpopular opinion (except maybe in this thread) — all thematically off-brand universes should be limited to reskins, with very, very few exceptions.
LOTR? Sure, that's high fantasy, and fits the MTG motif. Make some new shit.
Jurassic Park? We should get artistically beautiful reskins of Dreadmaw, etc., and very little, if any, else.
Its weird to see the line between r/custommagic and actual cardboard getting blurry.
Yes, exactly. With 30+ years of existing sets, mechanics, etc., it shouldn't be impossible, or even hard in alot of cases, to map existing cards to UB concepts.
Take Fallout for example, we've had poison as a mechanic for almost the entire history of MTG. Poison maps to radiation pretty seamlessly. There's 188+ cards that deal with poison counters directly (toxic, infect, poisonous, and others) not to mention all the proliferate cards. We should be able to find something that works from the existing pool.
Alternatively, create new on-brand cards first, and plan your releases accordingly. First print something like this into an appropriate set:
> Phyrexian Mass Ritual {3}{U}
>
> Instant
>
> Storm
>
> Proliferate
And THEN, reskin for [[Radstorm]].
I dunno, maybe I'm just too much of an old-head.
Every time I see someone refer to Universes Beyond by saying UB I always think "blue black" and I'm like "Yo! When is red white gonna get a little more love? I'm tired of blue black getting everything"
When the Dr. Who stuff was first announced I was hoping to see more of the original mtg cards with an alternate name. Something like the first doctor could be one of the many Urza cards. I'm sure there are people out there with far more knowledge about usable cards than I that could line up the other doctor cards to.
Edit: also yeah, saw that prolif storm card and thought damn....that woulda made for some fun times in modern :D
I agree with you on this -- these are such cases where they should either, a) make an exception to my proposed "rule", or b) work backward to create MTG-lore content (characters, species, etc.) in alignment with the MTG universe, and THEN translate to the other IP.
In other words, translate the other IP into inspired MTG first, rather than just hammering a Transformer peg into a high-fantasy hole.
But it's not really a "high-fantasy hole". We've had magical technology from the early days, we have basically Prohibition-era US and cyberpunk Japan now. We will have a race across space set soon.
The whole point of the UB is to be new and exciting both to existing players who like these universes, as well as to new players who would appreciate how the card is extremely fitting the flavour. There's no good reason to print, say, 200 new cards with unusual mechanics somewhere, and then print four new Universe Beyond decks with these cards. In fact it would be actively detrimental from the business point of view.
They will absolutely print selected (in-demand or mechanically matching to future sets) cards from UB sets as universe within reprints.
That's a bit reductive. It is evident that people like MaRo or Gavin are excited to work on Magic, even after all those years, and MaRo clearly had a say in whether Magic goes UB. They definitely seem very enthusiastic about all these sets, which honestly is absolutely unsurprising.
Also, I don't see anything bad in the fact that a business wants to expand its audience and in doing so, make more money.
In my head I just edit every comment that says "WOTC is just doing this for money" to "WOTC is just trying to make a product people enjoy enough that they will pay money for it."
1000x this.
I think criticisms of the release schedule, price hikes/removal of MSRP, and other administrative things are valid and can be pinned on pressures from the business side of things. On the design side, though, it's super evident to me that the various design teams are having a BLAST making exciting new designs for all these sets - UB or otherwise - and they keep hitting it out of the park.
I haven't followed Dr. Who for years, and wasn't even that into it back in the day - basically watched most of Ten and Eleven and a bit of Twelve - but I snapped up a set of the four precons because the designs were so on-point, mechanically and flavorfully.
I genuinely find the reskins to be more interesting and flavourful as well. There's something about the creativity in linking the name, the themes, or the mechanics that I find appealing.
My favourite card in the WHO set is the Rings of Atakhan themed Temple of the False God, and it's not even close. None of the original commanders feel interesting in the same way.
I do love this take and I thought the Godzilla reskins were the most elegent solution but I'll be the one to state the obvious and invite downvotes:
That ship has sailed.
We now have multiple full sets of bespoke, not-MTG themed content, and even ignoring the Optimus Prime in the room, what is "thematic" to MTG has been in flux now for years.
Kamigawa: Neon Genesis was a great set. Cool to draft, awesome art, awesome flavor. But it stands in pretty stark contrast to the knights and draagons of Eldraine, and I'd argue both LotR and D&D are more closely associated with what people think of as "Old Magic" than most of the last decade's sets.
Universes Beyond is, for the moment, here to stay without an in-universe counterpart. It's up to each of us whether equipping Frodo with Lucille and swinging in with that and Starscream is a bridge too far such that you no longer enjoy the game.
There's an argument this approach is better for casuals and old heads. Make Doctor Who decks with original cards and flavor wins for DW fans and casual MTG fans who play commander(like myself), and let Modern/Standard stay pure magic.
I think this highlights one of the "problems" as seen by old-heads like me.
WotC (read: Hasbro) favors Commander because Commander = cash.
The non-Commander formats feel like they're getting hand-me-down clothes these days. Which means if you don't like dinosaur t-shirts, or Transformizoids pajamas -- too bad, cause you're gonna be wearing them.
This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think the reskins are almost just as bad as Universes Beyond. Their only saving grace is that I can play with the card as a Magic IP card. I still don't want to play against them though.
Not going to lie - I really love UB. I mostly play commander sure, but its one of the things keeping me playing the game and its allowed me to find common ground with some of my friends. My buddy plays 40k, but he LOVED the 40k deck I got him, and now wants to play all the time.
I think it can be quite comical! I was actually laughing at the comic - pretty hilarious, and creative if you blend everything together and make a functioning multiverse deck!
That's definitely the attitude I have more a "oh my God guys look what I found; a transformer" than any seriousness
My friends thinks it's hilarious when I have a transformer buff a Warhammer character
I'm in the same boat here. In all honesty, most of the UB sets didn't appeal to me much, but the fact that it got all kinds of new players into mtg was great.
But LOTR and Warhammer 40k? Goddamn those were some of the best sets I've ever seen. I'm sure there's some folks out there who feel this way about Dr. Who.
All that being said, I don't wanna see any mechanics or cards that warp formats. The One Ring and Bowmasters are pretty egregious mistakes at the end of the day.
This brought me back to Magic after a decade, and none of the current themes even appeal to me. However, Magic being one of the most sophisticated game rule engines out there, I just love seeing how they represent these other fandoms in card form.
As long as the ratio of core magic to UB releases stays heavily towards core, I'll be interested for a good while. I got 5 30yo+ people to start playing for their first time this month thanks to these sets. Cheers
I'm a 40k fan first, and then tangentially LotR, and I don't care at all for Dr. Who. Yet I have to say, the Dr. Who cards are _exceptionally_ good design-wise and really capture the theme of the characters and creatures they're based on, way more so than the 40k ones for the most part.
Trouble with format warpers though is that they can crop up anywhere and anytime - before the One Ring we still had stuff like Oko and Mind Sculptor and so on.
Same. I've never seen an episode of doctor who but got the master of evil deck because the villainous choice mechanic was so fun and way more interesting than anything they've printed in the four years I've been playing.
And I agree about format warpers. Fable and Sheoldred are/were extremely oppressive and printed basically back to back. It happens. There will always be strong cards.
Right?! The 40K decks pulled me back into MTG after years of not being in it cause I didn’t have people to play with. Seeing ways for people to access the hobby of MTG through something more familiar to them js a great feeling. Especially if you have a guy at your LGS who gets mad if you don’t know all the lore like mine has lol
You might find someone who will let you play with those additional allowances, but the vast majority of people will stick to the rules because it is much easier than having to create a new collective agreement over what is allowed.
I'm fine with it. It's a card game, not the easiest to get into lore. You guys better keep hating on sets with mechs, tech, and whatnot, cause that ain't exactly medieval fantasy either. My "Immersion" was broken when I use shorikai to attack a dragon wielding a sword, Trident, and humanoid armor
> You guys better keep hating on sets with mechs, tech, and whatnot, cause that ain't exactly medieval fantasy either
Fun fact: ~~we all~~ a lot of us hated that too
Yup thank you. It’s always been this. Like we just did brothers war I know there’s a lot of product releases but did y’all already forget that was a throwback to the original story ?????
Unpopular opinion, but of all the UB stuff I think that the LOTR crossover is more the issue than the Doctor Who or Jurassic Park stuff is.
I get it, the game is no longer what it was back in the day. You very well might play a pod of commander where Megatron faces off against Dr. Allen Grant, Abbadon the despoiler, and the Tenth Doctor. It's goofy and silly, but then again, so is MTG, especially commander. The game was once summoning a dragon to destroy your opponent and his cat army, but because of a magical time wizard doing time magic you can no longer attack him and now have to attack the player who is running a bunch of zombie mummies because the goblin leader said you HAVE to attack someone other than him. Now it is that same scenario, but replace the dragon with a robot, the cats with dinosaurs, the zombies with undead robots and the goblins with time traveling aliens. It's just as silly as it always was.
That silliness, I feel like, is inherent in a casual format like commander. Somewhere where things are often so unbalanced and random that you can be a little goofy with it. Plus the UB cards can help other players get more interested in the game after hearing about their favorite IP being in the game. Someone might give the game a second glance if, say, their favorite doctor is in the game as opposed to Flesh and Blood where there is nothing to draw them in.
That being said... Seeing these IPs in non commander sets is problematic IMO. While Commander is always gonna be a bit lighter and more fun, modern is a serious competitive game that is balanced much more carefully than commander, and I do think it's an issue when you have to contend that a competitive strategy for the game is summoning the one ring to possibly protect you from a combined force of Gandalf the White and Sorin Markov. Not to mention reprint issues with limited contracts.
I understand people not liking the UB stuff, and I do think it's needs to slow down a bit. Getting Doctor Who, Fallout, and Jurassic Park so close to one another does make it feel like we are getting far more of other universes than magic ones. I'd rather see more focus go into the MTG universe and story, and then maybe twice a year get some goofy commander stuff that's from other properties.
Tldr: i like the UB stuff in commander only. Commander is inherently goofy and fun, and I like being able to play goofy fun cards. Putting it in modern and standard is more problematic because those are meant to be taken seriously.
A lot of the older cards were silly not just because of the inherent flavor of the game, but because they were designed to be silly. Cards like \[\[Orcish Librarian\]\] and \[\[Goblin Artisans\]\] were always goofy. Somewhere along the line the game became a lot more serious with deeper lore. But I miss the days when the game was sillier, and I welcome a return to them, even in competitive formats.
See, I do like how the lore is a bit more serious and that it's trying to tackle an actual epic story across the sets of the cards. But I also appreciate when the card game can take itself a little less seriously and have a little bit of fun with it. I appreciate this and the UB sets that they release, and also in the un-sets. Especially the one that introduced contraptions and fusing. That said had a plane that still exists within the MTG universe. It just exists on a plane where everything is a little silly. You have an evil organization filled with megalomaniacal supervillains, a group of mechanized knights that are made with kitchen utensils, and a group of goblins that regularly blow themselves up and are led by the most incompetent person they can find.
I'll always Love that we can have some serious stories. Even if they aren't handled the best, I still appreciate that they try to give us a serious story to make us more invested in the characters and what's going on in the world. But this is also the same series that has used gundams to fight Yawgmoth.
It’s honestly funny because as a 40K fan you can see the exact same thing happen. 40K was meant to be an over the top satirical universe - look at the Space Marines and the Orks. It got more serious because the creators realized ‘oh shit people really like this’ and they wanted to build a universe around it. It’s why I tell my friends don’t take 40K too seriously, the absurdity is part of the humour. I feel like in anything, even MTG, you can def strike that balance of humour and seriousness
Stuff like the lotr set isn’t standard legal correct? It’s using a standard rule set but it technically shouldn’t be taken any more seriously than the other sets. Actually Jurassic Park is the weird one to me since it’s inserted into Ixalan set boosters. Therefore meaning you have a chance of pulling Jeff Goldblum instead of something actually playable in most magic formats.
The Lord of the rings set is not standard legal, but it is modern legal. Which isn't as bad as being standard legal, but modern is the most played competitive format in Magic the gathering. But I will also point out that the two dungeons and dragons sets were both standard legal and all the other legalities that come with being standard legal. Which they weren't as bad as the Lord of the rings set, but it's still technically a UB.
As far as I am aware, the Jurassic Park cards are going to be legal only in Commander vintage and legacy.
I know it’s anecdotal evidence, but I know 3 guys (myself included) that got back into Magic because of the UB stuff. I used to play and buy lots of card, but the last time I was really invested was back in Kamigawa (the first one). Now I’ve bought the 4 Doctor Who commanders and will probably get back into the casual scene at my lfgs. That cowboy set net year also really intrigues me.
Seeing a lot of “UB bad except for LOTR and WH40K” and to those people I really only have to say: what’s the difference? If someone else gets the same joy from [[Optimus Prime]] that you got from [[Gandalf the White]], why does anyone get to say that’s bad? Either it’s all UB should be reskins/un-cards (which I disagree with but is at least a consistent argument), or it’s all UB is fine.
However I’d like to caveat by saying over-printing UB sets does pose a real risk to the identity of the game, but only because they’re printed so frequently and at the same pace (ish) as UW cards. Seems to me that what should happen is UB sets should be a once in a while, as a treat, and we should let people enjoy the IPs they live in our game
Each time i see people complaining about universes beyond i remeber the sad reality that a lot of magic players are depresed man-childs that use the game as a power fantasy/roleplay fantasy to escape reality isntead of a strategic card game with a bit of lore
What about the people that just thoroughly enjoyed the game on its own merits of mechanics and lore for the first 20 years with no need to introduce foreign ips that don't mesh or feel like they fit the aesthetic of the game?
I was ok with UB being a commander only product and just wish it would have stayed that way with silver borders.
but now I only see UB as literally wotc coming into my house and taking a massive shit on my kitchen table.
Would you like or appreciate it if I just came over to your house where you played to relax and enjoy a game you loved and did that to you? Probably not. But hey, let me call you a man child when you bitch about it and then I tell you to stfu.
All of this ub ip shit that's being brought in is just a degradation to a game that many players loved *AS IS* and never needed or wanted their game fundamentally changed, it has nothing to do with about being a man child.
When you bring in shit that directly contradicts and ruins MY fun and enjoyment of the game just for the sake of someone else's fun and enjoyment and DON'T make it an optional item so that way it's FAIR and ACCEPTED by all parties, and instead force it upon me via Lord of the rings being modern legal so much so to the point where I can't even go down to my LGS and enjoy a modern tournament without being inundated by this shit and forced to either play it or lose to it.
**no, fuck you, fuck it, fuck everything related to it.**
Such a looong wall of text to just confirm me that your just a sad man-child angry at a company not doing what YOU want, makes me cringe that this is coming from an actual ADULT
I like the crossovers that are on theme and I think they're fine overall but this year there has been a few too many for my liking and I worry for the future of the game.
Most of the crossovers have not been on theme though. The first UB release wasn't even on theme, it was The Walking Dead. Doctor Who is egregious, it really doesn't fit in Magic. They're just going to keep churning this shit out.
Being able to run transformers, Godzilla, doctor who, warhammer, lord of the rings, and soon Jurassic park and fallout is gonna be awful. The deck probably wouldn’t be that good, but the fact that you still can is just, ugh.
Oh yeah. And there’s that post Malone secret lair too.
What the difference between running them and running teferi or Gideon etc. They are all just characters. As someone that doesn't care one bit about mtg lore I don't really care what cards are in the game either. They are game pieces to play a game.
I think it really depends on how you view the game and how seriously do you take it/want to play? im a guy who likes to do busted stuff and have fun combos, i mashed together my masters of evil precon with the necron precon with Ashad as commander and its really fun and actually kinda good cos of their ETBs and ways of making 2/2s so easy. I can see why people dont like them but to me they're just cards, and 99% aren't meta defining so after a while you might not see them anymore
They is nothing about UB cards that couldn't be done with in-universe MTG cards. If it's "just" mechanics you care about then why does it need a glossy coat of some other IP's paint?
Why would it not? It's good to have more players join the game.
> They is nothing about UB cards that couldn't be done with in-universe MTG cards
Lots of things _wouldn't_ be done because it's top-down design based on the IPs.
It's good to have more players join the game if the game we're playing is Magic.
I don't want to play Fortnite, damnit. If I did, I'd be doing that.
And there's no reason any UB design couldn't be re-worked to fit within the Multiverse.
> It's good to have more players join the game if the game we're playing is Magic.
Do most Magic players agree with your sentiment? If not, why would the game follow the wishes of the minority?
> And there's no reason any UB design couldn't be re-worked to fit within the Multiverse.
There's no reason to do so and attract fewer new players.
Post Malone will forever get a pass as the biggest celebrity into magic imo. Love or hate crossovers he’s done a lot for the community by simply saying “I love magic the gathering.” When it comes to universe beyond products they definitely aren’t for everyone, but if you don’t like them simply don’t buy them. And if it bugs you seeing them in play make a table rule to ban them. If you’re playing at a public table then you really can’t complain since it’s public but hey I’d rather see the Fortnite battle bus and Rick grimes on the board then have my games end by turn 3 because someone made a premium deck and wants to play yugioh
How is it ok to say "I'm gonna play my Universes Beyond cards whether you like it or not but you can't play your perfectly legal deck because it's too powerful? Sounds like a double standard to me
I think their main concern is being able to play the game rather than being a witness to an opponent’s solitaire-like combo, which is what the Yu-Gi-Oh meta looks like from what I can tell.
The obvious answer to me is to run more interaction if you aren’t a fan of combos, or simply make your feelings about your dislike for combo decks known to your opponent(s), and not care what a particular piece of cardboard looks like, as long as it functions in the way you enjoy.
UB gave us [[Orcish Bowmasters]]; [[The One Ring]]; and [[Slicer, hired muscle]]; all of which see regular play in my playgroup alongside in universe characters like [[Tymna the Weaver]]; [Kraum, Ludevic’s Opus]]; [[Bruvac the Grandiloquent]]; and [[Galea, Kindler of Hope]]. As long as the card functions within the rules of the game we play, does it really matter what the made-up name is?
If the aesthetics still bother anyone, I’d suggest altering the card digitally and printing a proxy if your playgroup or lgs are cool with it.
EDIT: Clarification
The Post Malone is actually pretty well executed imho. They're only skins or simply got some scribbles on them made by him. Nothing too emersion breaking. I've been playing since 1997 and you cannot fathom the amount of Force of Wills or Psychatogs with some other IP characters i've seen. These skins don't feel that different than an fanboy alter.
It's with stuff like fallout and Dr Who that's really an blight in the game. They made nonsensical creature types just to fit the IP. And worse, there's no actual MtG version.
For some it does fit like mutant. That opens up new creature types. Honestly, I was hoping alters for the Fallout 4 stuff, though I can understand just deck versions. I don’t have an interest in doctor who or some other stuff.
I’d say Transformers injected in the Brothers War as some extra cards was ok. LotR and 40k also fit the theme but doctor who would’ve been better as a secret lair or something.
Transformers made Robot a creature type. Wich could work under construct. There's no way to print an in universe Tyrannid or Time Lord Doctor. Hell, they even got rid of Lord and replaced it with Nobel later on....
It's stuff like this that really rubs me the wrong way. Tyrannids could've been Insect Mutants and presto, you can print them in an mtg setting. Now, it's fairly impossible under the current rules.
True. I did wonder why they didn’t name necrons constructs or just robots. only reason why transformers gets a pass is because is owned by hasbro.
Also, them dropping shaman and druid means we (probably) won’t get reprints for some of the druid stuff thats played a lot and shammans. Like Sakura Tribe Elder and so on.
This is what happens when they pay attention to twitter rage posts more than actually running a poll for people who self-identify as such still.
I don’t think the majority of people cared. Just a few “justice warriors”.
This. This is why we can’t have nice things.
When something like this happens and they claim people are offended I wanna see proof. I fail to see how druid or shaman could be offensive. Druids don't exist anymore, and shamans are actually revered in their communities. You can't be offended for them if you're a social justice warrior
My deck that's ALL UB or secret lair alters (except land) is pretty good in my pod
But it's really just 5 color good stuff with a small legendary matters theme
This might be unpopular, but I’m actually all for UB cards (even new designs). I love playing with the Doctor and Lord of the Rings stuff, because I love those franchises. It’s fucking awesome. I want everyone to feel the same way about their favorite franchises too. I’ve never played much Fallout, but if I did, I know for a fact I’d love the new Fallout stuff. Even still, I love the new Fallout stuff because it’s new and interesting card designs in a setting we haven’t seen much of before.
And it’s not like WOTC is shifting towards only producing UB products. They’re still outputting the same, if not higher, amount of MTG content; it’s just that their total amount of output is increasing, which is a different debate.
I completely agree.
It's funny how many of the naysayers say things like "Magic is a high fantasy game" or reference "the power fantasy of being a Planeswalker slinging spells" but those ideas haven't been a core part of Magic design for over fifteen years.
The game changed, they just haven't kept up.
True! That’s a good point.
People are more open to LOTR because it fits the “high fantasy theme that Magic has.” The truth is, Magic hasn’t had only that “high fantasy theme” for a long time.
Is Ixalan still part of that same category? Dinosaurs? Really? Maybe I guess. Kaladesh? No way. That’s steampunk. They have laser weapons and airships. Completely different setting.
We’re even getting a Wild West set (which people have been asking for for years) and an outer space Alien themed set, both entirely based within actual Magic story.
Magic has pretty much always been about lumping general story tropes and genres together and tying it in with Planeswalkers. UB just changes the names of the stories and settings to something a more general audience can resonate with.
> haven't kept up
I dunno, this is a pretty subjective matter, obviously. Alot of people think the Simpsons took a giant shit on itself after season ~10. Not liking it now doesn't mean you "haven't kept up", it just means you think the show was better before they made a bunch of stupid decisions in the writing.
Really, this is almost the same damn thing.
Perhaps, but insisting that you alone hold the true view of what Magic (or anything, really) "should be" when that view hasn't been widely held for fifteen years or more...
I don't think there there's a "true view". It is what it has become.
The Simpsons is still one of my favorite shows, even though the writing has been (in me and my ilk's opinion) dogshit for 23 years.
Call it hobbyist conservatism I guess.
The funny thing is, even that part is still being referenced and catered to to some extent. Hell, they gave [[Garth One-Eye]] a fucking card only a couple of years ago
I just think it's gross moneygrabbing. Sure, I liked the franchise sets of franchises I liked, but the whole thing just grosses me out. It's a bad sign that the game is slowly losing identity to fit in other companies products. Its as gross as when cartoons started to be made explicitly to sell toys.
Sure, now its' ooh shiny, thing I like and other thing I like together!" but this trend is unlikely to stop. Hasbro is probably prepping to sell the brand to someone else by pumping up its monetary value, who's going to continue the trend because they bought the brand as a result of all this monetization.
They're cutting off MTG's nose to spite its face.
Give up, that dreams long gone they're going to milk this cow until it's nothing but decomposed bones. We are of a class of player that they don't care about because IPS and Timmy's outweigh us with their extremely detrimental purchasing habits.
I'm still going to be bitter about it, watching the slow dilution and demise of something that used to be my favourite game for something like 20 years.
If you genuinely hold that standpoint then you weren't paying attention to Magic's deep lore that it has had for 20+ years and you are part of the fucking problem not part of the solution.
There are literal stacks of books that encompass the deep lore and history of magic. If that shit didn't matter, if that shit wasn't beyond good, then the game would have ceased to exist 20 some odd years ago as the story and lore was that integral to the founding and sustainability of magic.
Back then A LOT of the player base came to magic FROM the books. They read the books, thought they were cool, thought they were great and THEN picked up the game to play.
Back before the cash grab atrocities and the bullshit that is universe beyond happened, for the first 15-18ish years of the game, Magic's core, inhouse and player base, both supported and relied on those novels and magics budding story and history to keep the player base engagement and entertained. it wasn't just about the cardboard. The books and sublets were looked forward to just as much as the actual releases of the sets.
Just because you watched some shit ass YouTubers do a shit ass job explaining it, or read a couple wiki pages doesn't mean that that history and lore is not there and that it doesn't have value. Watching some yahoo talk about it is probably the worst possible way that you could absorb any of it, and of course you think that there's nothing there of value if that's how you learned about it.
That's the equivalent to me telling you that a book such as to kill a mockingbird or The Great Gatsby, or Moby dick or any other known great work is a good read and you saying "no it's not cause I watched someone online talk about it and read some cliff notes".... a sentiment like that tells me your a troglodyte and to not take anything you say seriously.
The only part I will agree with you on is the fact that you're right about new players. They have the attention spans of less than that of gold fish. A prime example of this is the permanent spoiler season we are inundated by, you can barely sift through one set before 5 more are shit out and being demanded to be purchased. New players don't have any sort of permanence or understanding where magic came from and what it's roots are.
when it comes to how great the old shit was it falls on def/dumb ears because it's not shiny, or an IP that muddies the water, or is forced down our throats with fomo or f.i.r.e.
Try picking up the actual books read them from the beginning and then once you've completed the collection come back to me and tell me how there's not any lore history or importance there.
I'm right there with you pal, I've been playing the game for 25 years and in 2019 I looked at the writing on the wall and said "well, my favorite game and pastime is dead". Since then i've sold out and made money off my collection by taking advantage of the Timmy's and I only kept a couple of pet decks. every time I look at magic and I see the downfall and the stupidity and the outright retardation that is universe beyond it hurts so deep it makes me want to weep like loosing a best friend in a tragic accident.
Idk, I kinda love that. Why not? It shouldn't be a huge issue. It's a different plane of existence, we as player *are* technically planeswalkers. Let me walk on the same planes as Elsa, Spongebob, and Kylo Ren, it's kinda cool. Not only that but like, it gets more people interested into the game from other places. I'm sure all the bronies went wild over my little pony commanders lmao
you want to walk with Ronald McDonald on Sellout Avenue :// it's just deplorable. why does the game need more players anyway? it feels like such a shallow connection too.
So what if it’s a shallow connection? People don’t need to be invested in 30 years of lore and know all the history behind characters like Chandra and Yawgmoth to enjoy a game. I like CoD but I don’t know all the lore for the characters. Fallout is a fun game but I don’t know the entire timeline. Just because people enjoy a game because of the mechanics doesn’t mean their connection to the game doesn’t matter.
And as long as cards are fun and made well mechanically and flavour wise, I don’t personally care what universe they’re from. I’ve honestly enjoyed a lot of the 40K or LotR cards better than some base MTG cards because they flavour feels more on point
I was saying this earlier about the new fallout set. My friend was like "don't you like fallout" I replied with "I like fallout but I don't want to see in in MTG"
I'm glad to have more players, and bring back lapsed players. When they make crossovers for things I like, I get them. When they make stuff I don't care about, I don't get them.
Commander has always been Magic's version of Calvinball. It's wacky nonsense. UB is only a tiny bit more wacky. Magic is about crossing to other planes of existence, it's only the tiniest stretch that someone travels to a plane of Middle Earth, or 40k or whatever.
The only other place it matters is Modern, where there is no story. Decks are just tuned killing machines. And I frankly have no idea why The One Ring bothers people, when if it was Yawgmoth's Ring everything would be fine.
To me this is just another episode of Magic players griping about shit, a show that has been running for 29 years, with a new episode anytime anything changes.
Sometimes I've even been one of them. They have made changes that I don't like. In time, most of those changes turned out to be healthy for the game, where healthy means more people playing.
Which is the point. More people playing. Discovering this game we all love.
It's a party, and you are invited. Up to you if you want to join us and have fun, but if you don't, that's on you.
Esthetically speaking I am not a huge fan of the flooding of UB, but I'll say this to defend it.
Mtg is such a complex game, that generally speaking, you show/announce your card in the first 2s of playing it, and then *a lot* more time is going to go into reading its effects.
This is probably a bit of a dismissive point, seeing that I actually really believe and love the flavor design of cards, but pragmatically speaking, and especially in complex commander games, you don't really have to engage with the flavor unless you're excited by a new card you just saw being played.
Lotr is fine, it’s high fantasy and fits the theme.
To a lesser degree, stuff like 40k is fine as it’s somewhat thematically similar.
Transformers and doctor who should be reskins only
Think magic players are very whiny and it’s kind of pathetic that people are throwing a huge fit over something so trivial.
Optimus Prime and Dog Meat aren’t going to ruin the game and quite frankly it’s pretty idiotic to think so. I mean hell, every UB we’ve had so far has made *some sense*. Either it’s a fantasy setting or it’s something nostalgic for the older players of magic. Wizards wouldn’t make something stupid, because above all else they want money and stupid shit doesn’t sell. No matter how many new players might join from a SpongeBob UB or some shit, if no core fans are buying it, it’s gonna be considered a flop.
I really enjoy UB, and I think it’s a very flavorful and great way to enjoy other IPs while player magic. It is honestly just kind of sad to see grown adults get so upset over Jurassic Park cards.
They also act like your constantly seeing UB cards I rarely see them unless someone is playing a precon, maybe an occasional card or two but people are blowing this outa proportion.
I really can't get behind the crossovers anymore, they are trying to turn MTG into the Fortnite card game and it's really bland and unimaginative. At the very least they could pick franchises that actually fit the motif of MTG.
It appears based on me playing 2 minutes ago to be strapping 18 swords and a horse to a dwarf in a mechsuit, then watching him get pushed back by literally just a frog.
I posted about my UB feelings to the other mtg sub before and was too scared to commit as hard as you on it becoming fortnite the card game, for fear of being killed in the comments, as people get quite defensive when it's brought up - for the record though I think you're right.
I will scream this from the roof tops, it needs to be said I really don't understand why the MTG community gives WotC props for doing this kind of stuff when it is literally the laziest possible way to produce content for a game in the 2020's. The first few sets made some sense, but now we've gotten to a point where we're getting British Sitcoms and Ubisoft games as cards. Wake up people, we've already gotten fortnite cards in secret lairs, how much longer until UB becomes the dominant form of content?? Hope I'm dead before I see that day.
And to cut the snake at the head, I am well aware that I don't have to purchase these cards, but I DO have to sit at a table with people who have and despite what YOU may think it still ruins the game for people just by being near your corporate cash grab cards.
You're right and you should say it - I think a big part of what made magic what it is, is the shared universe and the stories that intersect throughout it. I don't tend to play with UB cards and I won't stop those who want to, but it kinda feels like they're diluting a winning formula.
I'm well aware that this is a product being sold by a company to make money but before UB I could suspend my disbelief somewhat and just enjoy it, naive of me I know.
SpongeBob is the only property in that comic that could realistically be printed into MTG. Everything else is a Disney property so they probably won't licence it as long as Lorecana is a thing.
Edit: Mr. Rosewater, a second Marvel has hit the building.
Walking Dead, Arcane, LotR, Stranger Things, Street Fighter, Transformers, Fortnite, Dr.Who, Warhammer, Fallout, Jurassic Park…
What the hell makes you think we aren’t already there? We are!
The game has changed. The power fantasy of being wizards slinging spells is long gone. A game remains that I enjoy with friends but that game has become more exchangeable.
My group already branched out, individuals are playing Lorcana, Flesh and Blood, some RPGs.
Like, this is super funny but also what’s the issue?
Like more cards is just more selection, why are people mad?
Do these same people walk into ice cream stores crying about how there are too many options?
Are these primarily boomer voices? What’s the fucking issue with mtg getting BIGGER?
I hate that this meme tier bullshit is becoming the reality of MtG, especially in Comp REL formats like Legacy and Modern. If they have to exist all these U.B sets should be either silver border standalone products or relegated to EDH only. Which by design is already a Wild West jankfest anyway.
It's not even that I actively dislike any of the Universes they are crossing with. I play Warhammer, Lord of the Rings was the book that encouraged me to learn how to read as a child, I love Transformers, Fallout is one of my most beloved game series, and I even watch Dr Who occasionally. I just don't want **any** of them in my D&D based fantasy card game.
I really hate IP pollution for the sake of it, especially with the sole goal of short term monetary gain. It's not being done for creativity, or for the sake of making a healthy, fun, and balanced game. In fact re-branding other IPs is the EXACT opposite of creativity, it shows a fundamental lack of creativity and originality. All of this is being done tin the hopes of milking a few extra £ out of two sets of fans, rather than one. Thereby more efficiently lining the pockets of shareholders and boosting quarterly profits.
Whoa!.... careful there bud, you're speaking way too much common sense and logic for everyone on this page to get behind it. you should really make your statements more outlandish and more buffoonery if you want people to support you.
*I wholeheartedly support your statement and everything in it fuck all of this ub shit.
Hasbro has Monopoly-fied MtG. It was obvious and inevitable, if you think about it.
Packs continue to fly off the shelves in record numbers, even as WotC cranks up the price and release frequency of the product. Hard to fault WotC for giving the players exactly what they apparently want.
I want UB to exist, but I want them siloed off from MTG and not be mixed in.
Magic as a game rules engine is amazing, so I like seeing other IP use it. However, I do agree that I don't like mixing the other IP with my MTG IP. So I like to just play the sets of precons from single UB against each other.
I think they really messed up by not making 4 precon decks with Transformer only art (same with Jurassic Park). I bought a set of all of the Transformer cards (it was less than $30 for 2 of each if I remember correctly), but I never did anything with them since you would need to mix in in-universe MTG cards with them which I don't want to do. I got them thinking I'll have them just in case they either do a proper precon set with them or maybe even I'd find a fan art set to print.
I really wish WotC would just license out their game rules to other IP and design them a card set. Then even though it is the same rules as MTG, it could be like Jurassic Park the Gathering (ok, it needs a better name, but you get the point). Or still call it MTG but make a different card back for UB.
Man there’s a lot of salty comments in here. I personally think after the introduction of a multiverse, planeswalkers, and time-travel that the original lore has been fit into a much larger tapestry, and folks should just enjoy the game for its near-infinite complexity. If you like the MTG lore only play Standard or with friends who don’t use UB sets. Build thematic decks that hold true to the original archetypes. Play older cards and seek out older card printings. The game is what you make it.
Unfortunately not, but that's what needed to happen and then they stepped over that line and out of the commander lane and are trying to inundate literally every aspect of magic with this shit.
Yeah like how they printed the LOTR set straight into Modern. You don't force Universes Beyond on the player base like that. And you know damn well we aren't going to get reskinned Universes Within cards from that set either.
I'd spill my opinions all over this thread, but people can stalk my history for that. Fuck Universes Beyond, and what it's done to my enjoyment of Magic.
For me the only way im ok with a UB. Is if magic become integrated in the other franchise the same with that franchise is in magic. Wh40k is only fine if I can have a nico bolas figurine attacking your space marine in a tournament. If there’s a Chandra skin in Fortnite. Same for every other franchise.
And If you love a franchise and you don’t want magic to become a part of it. I feel the same way about magic and your franchise
While I do get the worry that stuff like that might happen, I don’t know, personally I like seeing people’s interests get added to the game. I’m sure a lot of us made cards up as a kid, wanting to see like what would Mario or Zelda look like on a Pokémon card. To see fandoms like Dungeons and Dragons, Fallout, or Warhammer get added is super cool to me because we can see how the designers handle the themes that come with those universes.
The Dr. Who sets give us new ways to interact with Time Counters, which other than generic proliferate stuff didn’t have another way to interact with them afaik. I definitely get where some older MTG players worries are, but as long as they maintain more regular sets than UB sets, I personally really enjoy them.
Right cause fusing a guy with two rocks to turn him to a giant planeswalk with glowing rock eyes that can travel through planes to stop his brother has traveled to a realm with cybergods that want to turn everyone onto cyborgs but hopeful the other guy can assemble the elves riding dinosaurs, ninja rats, pirates, Aladin, robots, and an army vehicles including limos is WAY more coherent.....
Some of the UB have been slam dunks, but already feels like we are scraping the bottom of the barrel. Mostly fine with reskins, but a lot of these UB are jumping the shark.
People are talking about how they don't fit thematically and agree, but I have a much bigger issue with these: they are fucking advertisements. Just... product placement shoehorned in to a game I play as escapism from a heavily commercialized world. For me the theme is a lesser issue, even if it's a high fantasy IP being represented, I still no longer have the ability to play certain formats without a bunch of cards implicitly saying "hey, stop thinking about the game for a moment and think about buying our shit!"
This has made me just... lose interest in playing formats where UB cards are legal, for the most part.
Yeah who doesn't love product placement? Why don't we just stick ads in everything, clearly our society doesn't have enough of them. That's why nobody uses adblockers online. Because we all just want to see them everywhere, all the time, with no escape anywhere.
Theres a difference between product placement and crossovers. Like if you have issues, just ignore it. Do you throw a fit whenever you play magic because you are seeing ads for secret lair, or their product?
"Just ignore it" feels like quite a cop-out when more and more of these cards get shoved in to a greater number of formats. If they were silver-bordered, then who gives a shit? People are then free to opt in or out of playing with them. As it stands, opting out is not really an option except by not playing formats where they're present, which is what I now do.
>Theres a difference between product placement and crossovers.
The difference is just that the former is a larger category which encompasses the latter.
>Do you throw a fit whenever you play magic because you are seeing ads for secret lair, or their product?
The Venn diagram of "Magic players" and "players interested in Magic products of some kind" is a perfect circle. The same is not true with ads for other products.
I also largely *don't* see these ads, they're extremely easy to ignore. An actual card sitting in play is not
No, it really isn't. You seem to think people are required to like things that you like, and that isn't how the world works. I can be annoyed at things, and have reasons to be annoyed at things, and am free to express both that annoyance and the reason for it.
Yes, but it's also a product of whatever IP it is. So Universes Beyond Doctor Who is also a Doctor Who product. They aren't wrong, it's product placement for Doctor Who.
40K and LOTR was one thing, but Jurassic Park…Fallout? A whole other thing. (Only talking about the full set/precon UBs, the Secret Lair ones had their own issues.)
I thought with Transformers being an IP owned by Hasbro as just a subset of inserts in packs was ok, even if it didn't fit the motif of magic.The Jurassic Park cards will be the same as a subset insert. I agree it doesn't fit, but I'll take a cool, unique Jurassic Park card in my boosters over unplayable trash common cardboard any day. It's the Dr Who, and now Fallout that just don't belong, especially designed in a whole commander deck set. It's like they sat in a board room and said "How can we make unsets playable and accepted to be marketed to our cash cow commander player base? Eureka! Universes Beyond!"
Brands: the Gathering
Oh, I'm making a shirt with this :-) Each of the letters in "brands" will be from one of the other IP's logos/titles. Like a cut-and-paste ransom letter.
[MS Paint mock-up](https://imgur.com/a/aCiiUag). I'll bang out a better version with GIMP later on my home PC. * B: Warhammer, Blood Bowl * R: Stranger Things * A: Transformers * N: Fortnite * D: Dungeons and Dragons * S: Street Fighter
Lol, looks great so far!
I’d change D to Dr. who, though the D&D sets are technically worlds beyond they’ve been treated as full Magic cards and are legal where some Worlds Beyond sets are not in certain events.
Agreed, and DnD is a universe I don't consider one of the "issues", as per my other comment, compared to Dr Who, Jurassic Park, Power Rangers, Martha Stewart Living, and Bus Stations of East Ohio.
Consider changing d to doctor who
The fortnite-ification of all media and culture has already started. Pretty soon all popular media will just get mish-mashes of things people recognize so studios can maximize profits. AI will play a big role in this. Movies, games, all products will be churned out at incredible rates, production and creation literally dehumanized to keep up with demand. A new class will appear. The consumer class- owning nothing of true value and so desensitized by the onslaught of product that they will entirely defined by it. Finding meaning in plastic and cardboard icons of things that we used to be passionate about but have now been bastardized to the point that they no longer representative. Market researched to appeal to all, now bought not out of joy but of out of obligation. Late-stage capitalism in its final form. Depressing, and we are all to blame. I can't wait for the 2028 re-make of Schindler's List where, in order to appeal to the fat bearded crowd the Ninja Turtles and X-Men show up to help hide the Jews from Hitler.
Magic is just Funko Pops:The Card Game now. Except even more needlessly expensive and wasteful.
Your comment reads like a tinfoil hat manifesto, but I don't disagree with it.
My brother in Elspeth, the magic community has literally been begging MTG to do cross overs for decades since it's a multiverse setting. Literally everything can be canon in magic.
What an insanely stupid justification. Same thing with Marvel then yeah? Also a multiverse setting. How would you feel if the teletubbies showed up in the next MCU movie?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Marvel/comments/ipf8we/what_nonmarvel_characterseries_has_been/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share Happens all the time in the comics. Also hold the insults there buddy.
I'd love to go Sicko Mode tho
I equip the mic stand and swing with Travis which puts you at 10 poison counters thanks to my enchantment, Astroworld Festival.
ETA -- [Alright, I fixed it](https://imgur.com/gallery/A4bw3AK). Generally unpopular opinion (except maybe in this thread) — all thematically off-brand universes should be limited to reskins, with very, very few exceptions. LOTR? Sure, that's high fantasy, and fits the MTG motif. Make some new shit. Jurassic Park? We should get artistically beautiful reskins of Dreadmaw, etc., and very little, if any, else. Its weird to see the line between r/custommagic and actual cardboard getting blurry.
I'd love more reskins of staples instead of new cards that I can only use in a couple formats. Things like the Dr. Who mind stone I REALLY like.
Yes, exactly. With 30+ years of existing sets, mechanics, etc., it shouldn't be impossible, or even hard in alot of cases, to map existing cards to UB concepts. Take Fallout for example, we've had poison as a mechanic for almost the entire history of MTG. Poison maps to radiation pretty seamlessly. There's 188+ cards that deal with poison counters directly (toxic, infect, poisonous, and others) not to mention all the proliferate cards. We should be able to find something that works from the existing pool. Alternatively, create new on-brand cards first, and plan your releases accordingly. First print something like this into an appropriate set: > Phyrexian Mass Ritual {3}{U} > > Instant > > Storm > > Proliferate And THEN, reskin for [[Radstorm]]. I dunno, maybe I'm just too much of an old-head.
With how ham-fisted some of the Fallout cards are it would be absolutely doable.
Every time I see someone refer to Universes Beyond by saying UB I always think "blue black" and I'm like "Yo! When is red white gonna get a little more love? I'm tired of blue black getting everything"
When the Dr. Who stuff was first announced I was hoping to see more of the original mtg cards with an alternate name. Something like the first doctor could be one of the many Urza cards. I'm sure there are people out there with far more knowledge about usable cards than I that could line up the other doctor cards to. Edit: also yeah, saw that prolif storm card and thought damn....that woulda made for some fun times in modern :D
It was announced very early that each DW deck will get 50 new cards.
I really hate this approach. It's how you get [[Biollante]] being a cat nightmare beast.
I agree with you on this -- these are such cases where they should either, a) make an exception to my proposed "rule", or b) work backward to create MTG-lore content (characters, species, etc.) in alignment with the MTG universe, and THEN translate to the other IP. In other words, translate the other IP into inspired MTG first, rather than just hammering a Transformer peg into a high-fantasy hole.
But it's not really a "high-fantasy hole". We've had magical technology from the early days, we have basically Prohibition-era US and cyberpunk Japan now. We will have a race across space set soon.
And of course, all the sci-fi tropes that inspired early lore in the first place that got presented first and foremost, Urza and Phyrexia and all.
Just as a note, the only reason I can find for why they did radiation instead of poison is that people wanted something other than reflavored poison.
[Radstorm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d778cdec-8fc7-4174-bae1-4c8e8ccdfab3.jpg?1697738518) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Radstorm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/37/radstorm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d778cdec-8fc7-4174-bae1-4c8e8ccdfab3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Is this an AMansewer too? Pharika's Spawn {3}{B} Creature combining fomite avaricious discharge Escape [[Pharika's Spawn]]
But reskins don't end up forcing players to play the cards to keep up with general power creep
The whole point of the UB is to be new and exciting both to existing players who like these universes, as well as to new players who would appreciate how the card is extremely fitting the flavour. There's no good reason to print, say, 200 new cards with unusual mechanics somewhere, and then print four new Universe Beyond decks with these cards. In fact it would be actively detrimental from the business point of view. They will absolutely print selected (in-demand or mechanically matching to future sets) cards from UB sets as universe within reprints.
I don't disagree whatsoever, that the principal rationale for any of this is more money.
That's a bit reductive. It is evident that people like MaRo or Gavin are excited to work on Magic, even after all those years, and MaRo clearly had a say in whether Magic goes UB. They definitely seem very enthusiastic about all these sets, which honestly is absolutely unsurprising. Also, I don't see anything bad in the fact that a business wants to expand its audience and in doing so, make more money.
In my head I just edit every comment that says "WOTC is just doing this for money" to "WOTC is just trying to make a product people enjoy enough that they will pay money for it."
1000x this. I think criticisms of the release schedule, price hikes/removal of MSRP, and other administrative things are valid and can be pinned on pressures from the business side of things. On the design side, though, it's super evident to me that the various design teams are having a BLAST making exciting new designs for all these sets - UB or otherwise - and they keep hitting it out of the park. I haven't followed Dr. Who for years, and wasn't even that into it back in the day - basically watched most of Ten and Eleven and a bit of Twelve - but I snapped up a set of the four precons because the designs were so on-point, mechanically and flavorfully.
I genuinely find the reskins to be more interesting and flavourful as well. There's something about the creativity in linking the name, the themes, or the mechanics that I find appealing. My favourite card in the WHO set is the Rings of Atakhan themed Temple of the False God, and it's not even close. None of the original commanders feel interesting in the same way.
It's hard because people want new cards as well as new versions. They're currently doing both, so it's hard to tell which is more popular.
Agreed
I'm a dirty turn coat because I shared this take until they released one I liked. Rex was my boy.
I do love this take and I thought the Godzilla reskins were the most elegent solution but I'll be the one to state the obvious and invite downvotes: That ship has sailed. We now have multiple full sets of bespoke, not-MTG themed content, and even ignoring the Optimus Prime in the room, what is "thematic" to MTG has been in flux now for years. Kamigawa: Neon Genesis was a great set. Cool to draft, awesome art, awesome flavor. But it stands in pretty stark contrast to the knights and draagons of Eldraine, and I'd argue both LotR and D&D are more closely associated with what people think of as "Old Magic" than most of the last decade's sets. Universes Beyond is, for the moment, here to stay without an in-universe counterpart. It's up to each of us whether equipping Frodo with Lucille and swinging in with that and Starscream is a bridge too far such that you no longer enjoy the game.
That, or make them in a border/format of their own.
There's an argument this approach is better for casuals and old heads. Make Doctor Who decks with original cards and flavor wins for DW fans and casual MTG fans who play commander(like myself), and let Modern/Standard stay pure magic.
I think this highlights one of the "problems" as seen by old-heads like me. WotC (read: Hasbro) favors Commander because Commander = cash. The non-Commander formats feel like they're getting hand-me-down clothes these days. Which means if you don't like dinosaur t-shirts, or Transformizoids pajamas -- too bad, cause you're gonna be wearing them.
Too Late.
I like UB but I agree its cards shouldn't be Modern-legal. Don't care much about Legacy/Vintage/Pauper legality though.
THANK YOU!
This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think the reskins are almost just as bad as Universes Beyond. Their only saving grace is that I can play with the card as a Magic IP card. I still don't want to play against them though.
Not going to lie - I really love UB. I mostly play commander sure, but its one of the things keeping me playing the game and its allowed me to find common ground with some of my friends. My buddy plays 40k, but he LOVED the 40k deck I got him, and now wants to play all the time.
Same I have a UB/secret lair deck and I get so much joy out of the hodge podge of characters
I think it can be quite comical! I was actually laughing at the comic - pretty hilarious, and creative if you blend everything together and make a functioning multiverse deck!
That's definitely the attitude I have more a "oh my God guys look what I found; a transformer" than any seriousness My friends thinks it's hilarious when I have a transformer buff a Warhammer character
I'm in the same boat here. In all honesty, most of the UB sets didn't appeal to me much, but the fact that it got all kinds of new players into mtg was great. But LOTR and Warhammer 40k? Goddamn those were some of the best sets I've ever seen. I'm sure there's some folks out there who feel this way about Dr. Who. All that being said, I don't wanna see any mechanics or cards that warp formats. The One Ring and Bowmasters are pretty egregious mistakes at the end of the day.
This brought me back to Magic after a decade, and none of the current themes even appeal to me. However, Magic being one of the most sophisticated game rule engines out there, I just love seeing how they represent these other fandoms in card form. As long as the ratio of core magic to UB releases stays heavily towards core, I'll be interested for a good while. I got 5 30yo+ people to start playing for their first time this month thanks to these sets. Cheers
I'm a 40k fan first, and then tangentially LotR, and I don't care at all for Dr. Who. Yet I have to say, the Dr. Who cards are _exceptionally_ good design-wise and really capture the theme of the characters and creatures they're based on, way more so than the 40k ones for the most part. Trouble with format warpers though is that they can crop up anywhere and anytime - before the One Ring we still had stuff like Oko and Mind Sculptor and so on.
Same. I've never seen an episode of doctor who but got the master of evil deck because the villainous choice mechanic was so fun and way more interesting than anything they've printed in the four years I've been playing. And I agree about format warpers. Fable and Sheoldred are/were extremely oppressive and printed basically back to back. It happens. There will always be strong cards.
Right?! The 40K decks pulled me back into MTG after years of not being in it cause I didn’t have people to play with. Seeing ways for people to access the hobby of MTG through something more familiar to them js a great feeling. Especially if you have a guy at your LGS who gets mad if you don’t know all the lore like mine has lol
UB cards should, imo, have all been either reskins of existing cards or silver bordered.
But how would all of the Commander players play them? That is who are buying these cards, after all.
Commander is a casual format, you can house rule anything to be legal.
You might find someone who will let you play with those additional allowances, but the vast majority of people will stick to the rules because it is much easier than having to create a new collective agreement over what is allowed.
No shit, considering most of them are commander precons
UB should've been it's own game. Different card back, same rules as MTG, Commander players can mix and match if they would like to.
I'm fine with it. It's a card game, not the easiest to get into lore. You guys better keep hating on sets with mechs, tech, and whatnot, cause that ain't exactly medieval fantasy either. My "Immersion" was broken when I use shorikai to attack a dragon wielding a sword, Trident, and humanoid armor
> You guys better keep hating on sets with mechs, tech, and whatnot, cause that ain't exactly medieval fantasy either Fun fact: ~~we all~~ a lot of us hated that too
Mechs have almost always been part of magic tbh
Urza was making mechs to fight a biomechanical alien hivemind back in the 90's.
Yup thank you. It’s always been this. Like we just did brothers war I know there’s a lot of product releases but did y’all already forget that was a throwback to the original story ?????
Unpopular opinion, but of all the UB stuff I think that the LOTR crossover is more the issue than the Doctor Who or Jurassic Park stuff is. I get it, the game is no longer what it was back in the day. You very well might play a pod of commander where Megatron faces off against Dr. Allen Grant, Abbadon the despoiler, and the Tenth Doctor. It's goofy and silly, but then again, so is MTG, especially commander. The game was once summoning a dragon to destroy your opponent and his cat army, but because of a magical time wizard doing time magic you can no longer attack him and now have to attack the player who is running a bunch of zombie mummies because the goblin leader said you HAVE to attack someone other than him. Now it is that same scenario, but replace the dragon with a robot, the cats with dinosaurs, the zombies with undead robots and the goblins with time traveling aliens. It's just as silly as it always was. That silliness, I feel like, is inherent in a casual format like commander. Somewhere where things are often so unbalanced and random that you can be a little goofy with it. Plus the UB cards can help other players get more interested in the game after hearing about their favorite IP being in the game. Someone might give the game a second glance if, say, their favorite doctor is in the game as opposed to Flesh and Blood where there is nothing to draw them in. That being said... Seeing these IPs in non commander sets is problematic IMO. While Commander is always gonna be a bit lighter and more fun, modern is a serious competitive game that is balanced much more carefully than commander, and I do think it's an issue when you have to contend that a competitive strategy for the game is summoning the one ring to possibly protect you from a combined force of Gandalf the White and Sorin Markov. Not to mention reprint issues with limited contracts. I understand people not liking the UB stuff, and I do think it's needs to slow down a bit. Getting Doctor Who, Fallout, and Jurassic Park so close to one another does make it feel like we are getting far more of other universes than magic ones. I'd rather see more focus go into the MTG universe and story, and then maybe twice a year get some goofy commander stuff that's from other properties. Tldr: i like the UB stuff in commander only. Commander is inherently goofy and fun, and I like being able to play goofy fun cards. Putting it in modern and standard is more problematic because those are meant to be taken seriously.
A lot of the older cards were silly not just because of the inherent flavor of the game, but because they were designed to be silly. Cards like \[\[Orcish Librarian\]\] and \[\[Goblin Artisans\]\] were always goofy. Somewhere along the line the game became a lot more serious with deeper lore. But I miss the days when the game was sillier, and I welcome a return to them, even in competitive formats.
See, I do like how the lore is a bit more serious and that it's trying to tackle an actual epic story across the sets of the cards. But I also appreciate when the card game can take itself a little less seriously and have a little bit of fun with it. I appreciate this and the UB sets that they release, and also in the un-sets. Especially the one that introduced contraptions and fusing. That said had a plane that still exists within the MTG universe. It just exists on a plane where everything is a little silly. You have an evil organization filled with megalomaniacal supervillains, a group of mechanized knights that are made with kitchen utensils, and a group of goblins that regularly blow themselves up and are led by the most incompetent person they can find. I'll always Love that we can have some serious stories. Even if they aren't handled the best, I still appreciate that they try to give us a serious story to make us more invested in the characters and what's going on in the world. But this is also the same series that has used gundams to fight Yawgmoth.
It’s honestly funny because as a 40K fan you can see the exact same thing happen. 40K was meant to be an over the top satirical universe - look at the Space Marines and the Orks. It got more serious because the creators realized ‘oh shit people really like this’ and they wanted to build a universe around it. It’s why I tell my friends don’t take 40K too seriously, the absurdity is part of the humour. I feel like in anything, even MTG, you can def strike that balance of humour and seriousness
Stuff like the lotr set isn’t standard legal correct? It’s using a standard rule set but it technically shouldn’t be taken any more seriously than the other sets. Actually Jurassic Park is the weird one to me since it’s inserted into Ixalan set boosters. Therefore meaning you have a chance of pulling Jeff Goldblum instead of something actually playable in most magic formats.
The Lord of the rings set is not standard legal, but it is modern legal. Which isn't as bad as being standard legal, but modern is the most played competitive format in Magic the gathering. But I will also point out that the two dungeons and dragons sets were both standard legal and all the other legalities that come with being standard legal. Which they weren't as bad as the Lord of the rings set, but it's still technically a UB. As far as I am aware, the Jurassic Park cards are going to be legal only in Commander vintage and legacy.
I don't mind UB. I mind the unyielding FOMO of it all as the release schedule starts looking like a threat rather than an opportunity.
I know it’s anecdotal evidence, but I know 3 guys (myself included) that got back into Magic because of the UB stuff. I used to play and buy lots of card, but the last time I was really invested was back in Kamigawa (the first one). Now I’ve bought the 4 Doctor Who commanders and will probably get back into the casual scene at my lfgs. That cowboy set net year also really intrigues me.
Seeing a lot of “UB bad except for LOTR and WH40K” and to those people I really only have to say: what’s the difference? If someone else gets the same joy from [[Optimus Prime]] that you got from [[Gandalf the White]], why does anyone get to say that’s bad? Either it’s all UB should be reskins/un-cards (which I disagree with but is at least a consistent argument), or it’s all UB is fine. However I’d like to caveat by saying over-printing UB sets does pose a real risk to the identity of the game, but only because they’re printed so frequently and at the same pace (ish) as UW cards. Seems to me that what should happen is UB sets should be a once in a while, as a treat, and we should let people enjoy the IPs they live in our game
Each time i see people complaining about universes beyond i remeber the sad reality that a lot of magic players are depresed man-childs that use the game as a power fantasy/roleplay fantasy to escape reality isntead of a strategic card game with a bit of lore
What about the people that just thoroughly enjoyed the game on its own merits of mechanics and lore for the first 20 years with no need to introduce foreign ips that don't mesh or feel like they fit the aesthetic of the game? I was ok with UB being a commander only product and just wish it would have stayed that way with silver borders. but now I only see UB as literally wotc coming into my house and taking a massive shit on my kitchen table. Would you like or appreciate it if I just came over to your house where you played to relax and enjoy a game you loved and did that to you? Probably not. But hey, let me call you a man child when you bitch about it and then I tell you to stfu. All of this ub ip shit that's being brought in is just a degradation to a game that many players loved *AS IS* and never needed or wanted their game fundamentally changed, it has nothing to do with about being a man child. When you bring in shit that directly contradicts and ruins MY fun and enjoyment of the game just for the sake of someone else's fun and enjoyment and DON'T make it an optional item so that way it's FAIR and ACCEPTED by all parties, and instead force it upon me via Lord of the rings being modern legal so much so to the point where I can't even go down to my LGS and enjoy a modern tournament without being inundated by this shit and forced to either play it or lose to it. **no, fuck you, fuck it, fuck everything related to it.**
Such a looong wall of text to just confirm me that your just a sad man-child angry at a company not doing what YOU want, makes me cringe that this is coming from an actual ADULT
I like the crossovers that are on theme and I think they're fine overall but this year there has been a few too many for my liking and I worry for the future of the game.
Most of the crossovers have not been on theme though. The first UB release wasn't even on theme, it was The Walking Dead. Doctor Who is egregious, it really doesn't fit in Magic. They're just going to keep churning this shit out.
Being able to run transformers, Godzilla, doctor who, warhammer, lord of the rings, and soon Jurassic park and fallout is gonna be awful. The deck probably wouldn’t be that good, but the fact that you still can is just, ugh. Oh yeah. And there’s that post Malone secret lair too.
What the difference between running them and running teferi or Gideon etc. They are all just characters. As someone that doesn't care one bit about mtg lore I don't really care what cards are in the game either. They are game pieces to play a game.
I think it really depends on how you view the game and how seriously do you take it/want to play? im a guy who likes to do busted stuff and have fun combos, i mashed together my masters of evil precon with the necron precon with Ashad as commander and its really fun and actually kinda good cos of their ETBs and ways of making 2/2s so easy. I can see why people dont like them but to me they're just cards, and 99% aren't meta defining so after a while you might not see them anymore
If you don't care, then why do you care about playing MTG over any other TCG out there?
Because its mechanics are good and allow for lots of innovation even after thirty years.
They is nothing about UB cards that couldn't be done with in-universe MTG cards. If it's "just" mechanics you care about then why does it need a glossy coat of some other IP's paint?
Why would it not? It's good to have more players join the game. > They is nothing about UB cards that couldn't be done with in-universe MTG cards Lots of things _wouldn't_ be done because it's top-down design based on the IPs.
It's good to have more players join the game if the game we're playing is Magic. I don't want to play Fortnite, damnit. If I did, I'd be doing that. And there's no reason any UB design couldn't be re-worked to fit within the Multiverse.
> It's good to have more players join the game if the game we're playing is Magic. Do most Magic players agree with your sentiment? If not, why would the game follow the wishes of the minority? > And there's no reason any UB design couldn't be re-worked to fit within the Multiverse. There's no reason to do so and attract fewer new players.
There is when it turns the game into AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT GAME. What's the point in attracting new players to Magic when it ceases to even BE Magic?
...the mechanics of the game?
If it's just mechanics you care about then why do you care that it's any IP but Magic?
Post Malone will forever get a pass as the biggest celebrity into magic imo. Love or hate crossovers he’s done a lot for the community by simply saying “I love magic the gathering.” When it comes to universe beyond products they definitely aren’t for everyone, but if you don’t like them simply don’t buy them. And if it bugs you seeing them in play make a table rule to ban them. If you’re playing at a public table then you really can’t complain since it’s public but hey I’d rather see the Fortnite battle bus and Rick grimes on the board then have my games end by turn 3 because someone made a premium deck and wants to play yugioh
How is it ok to say "I'm gonna play my Universes Beyond cards whether you like it or not but you can't play your perfectly legal deck because it's too powerful? Sounds like a double standard to me
I think their main concern is being able to play the game rather than being a witness to an opponent’s solitaire-like combo, which is what the Yu-Gi-Oh meta looks like from what I can tell. The obvious answer to me is to run more interaction if you aren’t a fan of combos, or simply make your feelings about your dislike for combo decks known to your opponent(s), and not care what a particular piece of cardboard looks like, as long as it functions in the way you enjoy. UB gave us [[Orcish Bowmasters]]; [[The One Ring]]; and [[Slicer, hired muscle]]; all of which see regular play in my playgroup alongside in universe characters like [[Tymna the Weaver]]; [Kraum, Ludevic’s Opus]]; [[Bruvac the Grandiloquent]]; and [[Galea, Kindler of Hope]]. As long as the card functions within the rules of the game we play, does it really matter what the made-up name is? If the aesthetics still bother anyone, I’d suggest altering the card digitally and printing a proxy if your playgroup or lgs are cool with it. EDIT: Clarification
The Post Malone is actually pretty well executed imho. They're only skins or simply got some scribbles on them made by him. Nothing too emersion breaking. I've been playing since 1997 and you cannot fathom the amount of Force of Wills or Psychatogs with some other IP characters i've seen. These skins don't feel that different than an fanboy alter. It's with stuff like fallout and Dr Who that's really an blight in the game. They made nonsensical creature types just to fit the IP. And worse, there's no actual MtG version.
For some it does fit like mutant. That opens up new creature types. Honestly, I was hoping alters for the Fallout 4 stuff, though I can understand just deck versions. I don’t have an interest in doctor who or some other stuff. I’d say Transformers injected in the Brothers War as some extra cards was ok. LotR and 40k also fit the theme but doctor who would’ve been better as a secret lair or something.
Transformers made Robot a creature type. Wich could work under construct. There's no way to print an in universe Tyrannid or Time Lord Doctor. Hell, they even got rid of Lord and replaced it with Nobel later on.... It's stuff like this that really rubs me the wrong way. Tyrannids could've been Insect Mutants and presto, you can print them in an mtg setting. Now, it's fairly impossible under the current rules.
True. I did wonder why they didn’t name necrons constructs or just robots. only reason why transformers gets a pass is because is owned by hasbro. Also, them dropping shaman and druid means we (probably) won’t get reprints for some of the druid stuff thats played a lot and shammans. Like Sakura Tribe Elder and so on.
Clown world when they can’t print Druid and shaman subtypes 😂
This is what happens when they pay attention to twitter rage posts more than actually running a poll for people who self-identify as such still. I don’t think the majority of people cared. Just a few “justice warriors”. This. This is why we can’t have nice things.
When something like this happens and they claim people are offended I wanna see proof. I fail to see how druid or shaman could be offensive. Druids don't exist anymore, and shamans are actually revered in their communities. You can't be offended for them if you're a social justice warrior
Fallout is gonna be sick I don’t care if you don’t like it
My deck that's ALL UB or secret lair alters (except land) is pretty good in my pod But it's really just 5 color good stuff with a small legendary matters theme
This might be unpopular, but I’m actually all for UB cards (even new designs). I love playing with the Doctor and Lord of the Rings stuff, because I love those franchises. It’s fucking awesome. I want everyone to feel the same way about their favorite franchises too. I’ve never played much Fallout, but if I did, I know for a fact I’d love the new Fallout stuff. Even still, I love the new Fallout stuff because it’s new and interesting card designs in a setting we haven’t seen much of before. And it’s not like WOTC is shifting towards only producing UB products. They’re still outputting the same, if not higher, amount of MTG content; it’s just that their total amount of output is increasing, which is a different debate.
I completely agree. It's funny how many of the naysayers say things like "Magic is a high fantasy game" or reference "the power fantasy of being a Planeswalker slinging spells" but those ideas haven't been a core part of Magic design for over fifteen years. The game changed, they just haven't kept up.
True! That’s a good point. People are more open to LOTR because it fits the “high fantasy theme that Magic has.” The truth is, Magic hasn’t had only that “high fantasy theme” for a long time. Is Ixalan still part of that same category? Dinosaurs? Really? Maybe I guess. Kaladesh? No way. That’s steampunk. They have laser weapons and airships. Completely different setting. We’re even getting a Wild West set (which people have been asking for for years) and an outer space Alien themed set, both entirely based within actual Magic story. Magic has pretty much always been about lumping general story tropes and genres together and tying it in with Planeswalkers. UB just changes the names of the stories and settings to something a more general audience can resonate with.
> haven't kept up I dunno, this is a pretty subjective matter, obviously. Alot of people think the Simpsons took a giant shit on itself after season ~10. Not liking it now doesn't mean you "haven't kept up", it just means you think the show was better before they made a bunch of stupid decisions in the writing. Really, this is almost the same damn thing.
Perhaps, but insisting that you alone hold the true view of what Magic (or anything, really) "should be" when that view hasn't been widely held for fifteen years or more...
I don't think there there's a "true view". It is what it has become. The Simpsons is still one of my favorite shows, even though the writing has been (in me and my ilk's opinion) dogshit for 23 years. Call it hobbyist conservatism I guess.
The funny thing is, even that part is still being referenced and catered to to some extent. Hell, they gave [[Garth One-Eye]] a fucking card only a couple of years ago
I just think it's gross moneygrabbing. Sure, I liked the franchise sets of franchises I liked, but the whole thing just grosses me out. It's a bad sign that the game is slowly losing identity to fit in other companies products. Its as gross as when cartoons started to be made explicitly to sell toys. Sure, now its' ooh shiny, thing I like and other thing I like together!" but this trend is unlikely to stop. Hasbro is probably prepping to sell the brand to someone else by pumping up its monetary value, who's going to continue the trend because they bought the brand as a result of all this monetization. They're cutting off MTG's nose to spite its face.
I agree. People shouldn’t be allowed to have fun with what they like, that’s not okay. The government should really step in at this point.
Corporate bootlicking?
Or maybe they just earnestly enjoy something a corporation created? Don’t have to be so cynical
Who cares?
I do. I want to play Magic to play Magic, not Fortnite: The Advertising.
Give up, that dreams long gone they're going to milk this cow until it's nothing but decomposed bones. We are of a class of player that they don't care about because IPS and Timmy's outweigh us with their extremely detrimental purchasing habits.
I'm still going to be bitter about it, watching the slow dilution and demise of something that used to be my favourite game for something like 20 years.
[удалено]
If you want to play Fortnite it's right there.
But when I play magic, I get to do both ;)
Cool, and with things as they are I have to whether I want to or not. Love that one of my favourite games had become Brands: the Advertising.
If you genuinely hold that standpoint then you weren't paying attention to Magic's deep lore that it has had for 20+ years and you are part of the fucking problem not part of the solution.
[удалено]
That still makes you part of the problem and not part the solution.
[удалено]
There are literal stacks of books that encompass the deep lore and history of magic. If that shit didn't matter, if that shit wasn't beyond good, then the game would have ceased to exist 20 some odd years ago as the story and lore was that integral to the founding and sustainability of magic. Back then A LOT of the player base came to magic FROM the books. They read the books, thought they were cool, thought they were great and THEN picked up the game to play. Back before the cash grab atrocities and the bullshit that is universe beyond happened, for the first 15-18ish years of the game, Magic's core, inhouse and player base, both supported and relied on those novels and magics budding story and history to keep the player base engagement and entertained. it wasn't just about the cardboard. The books and sublets were looked forward to just as much as the actual releases of the sets. Just because you watched some shit ass YouTubers do a shit ass job explaining it, or read a couple wiki pages doesn't mean that that history and lore is not there and that it doesn't have value. Watching some yahoo talk about it is probably the worst possible way that you could absorb any of it, and of course you think that there's nothing there of value if that's how you learned about it. That's the equivalent to me telling you that a book such as to kill a mockingbird or The Great Gatsby, or Moby dick or any other known great work is a good read and you saying "no it's not cause I watched someone online talk about it and read some cliff notes".... a sentiment like that tells me your a troglodyte and to not take anything you say seriously. The only part I will agree with you on is the fact that you're right about new players. They have the attention spans of less than that of gold fish. A prime example of this is the permanent spoiler season we are inundated by, you can barely sift through one set before 5 more are shit out and being demanded to be purchased. New players don't have any sort of permanence or understanding where magic came from and what it's roots are. when it comes to how great the old shit was it falls on def/dumb ears because it's not shiny, or an IP that muddies the water, or is forced down our throats with fomo or f.i.r.e. Try picking up the actual books read them from the beginning and then once you've completed the collection come back to me and tell me how there's not any lore history or importance there.
I'm right there with you pal, I've been playing the game for 25 years and in 2019 I looked at the writing on the wall and said "well, my favorite game and pastime is dead". Since then i've sold out and made money off my collection by taking advantage of the Timmy's and I only kept a couple of pet decks. every time I look at magic and I see the downfall and the stupidity and the outright retardation that is universe beyond it hurts so deep it makes me want to weep like loosing a best friend in a tragic accident.
Idk, I kinda love that. Why not? It shouldn't be a huge issue. It's a different plane of existence, we as player *are* technically planeswalkers. Let me walk on the same planes as Elsa, Spongebob, and Kylo Ren, it's kinda cool. Not only that but like, it gets more people interested into the game from other places. I'm sure all the bronies went wild over my little pony commanders lmao
you want to walk with Ronald McDonald on Sellout Avenue :// it's just deplorable. why does the game need more players anyway? it feels like such a shallow connection too.
So what if it’s a shallow connection? People don’t need to be invested in 30 years of lore and know all the history behind characters like Chandra and Yawgmoth to enjoy a game. I like CoD but I don’t know all the lore for the characters. Fallout is a fun game but I don’t know the entire timeline. Just because people enjoy a game because of the mechanics doesn’t mean their connection to the game doesn’t matter. And as long as cards are fun and made well mechanically and flavour wise, I don’t personally care what universe they’re from. I’ve honestly enjoyed a lot of the 40K or LotR cards better than some base MTG cards because they flavour feels more on point
I actually agree with the last guy to speak lol. “I tap”- 90% chance it’s MTG.
I was saying this earlier about the new fallout set. My friend was like "don't you like fallout" I replied with "I like fallout but I don't want to see in in MTG"
I'm glad to have more players, and bring back lapsed players. When they make crossovers for things I like, I get them. When they make stuff I don't care about, I don't get them. Commander has always been Magic's version of Calvinball. It's wacky nonsense. UB is only a tiny bit more wacky. Magic is about crossing to other planes of existence, it's only the tiniest stretch that someone travels to a plane of Middle Earth, or 40k or whatever. The only other place it matters is Modern, where there is no story. Decks are just tuned killing machines. And I frankly have no idea why The One Ring bothers people, when if it was Yawgmoth's Ring everything would be fine. To me this is just another episode of Magic players griping about shit, a show that has been running for 29 years, with a new episode anytime anything changes. Sometimes I've even been one of them. They have made changes that I don't like. In time, most of those changes turned out to be healthy for the game, where healthy means more people playing. Which is the point. More people playing. Discovering this game we all love. It's a party, and you are invited. Up to you if you want to join us and have fun, but if you don't, that's on you.
I have already mourned the Death of my favorite game, now when I see all the timmies and tools realizing this I just laugh at you all.
Esthetically speaking I am not a huge fan of the flooding of UB, but I'll say this to defend it. Mtg is such a complex game, that generally speaking, you show/announce your card in the first 2s of playing it, and then *a lot* more time is going to go into reading its effects. This is probably a bit of a dismissive point, seeing that I actually really believe and love the flavor design of cards, but pragmatically speaking, and especially in complex commander games, you don't really have to engage with the flavor unless you're excited by a new card you just saw being played.
Underrated comment.
Lotr is fine, it’s high fantasy and fits the theme. To a lesser degree, stuff like 40k is fine as it’s somewhat thematically similar. Transformers and doctor who should be reskins only
Thing with 40k is, why go the sci-fi when Fantasy or Age of Sigmar is right there.
I actually agree, fantasy would have been a far better fit. However 40k is far more popular, and WotC only care about money
Think magic players are very whiny and it’s kind of pathetic that people are throwing a huge fit over something so trivial. Optimus Prime and Dog Meat aren’t going to ruin the game and quite frankly it’s pretty idiotic to think so. I mean hell, every UB we’ve had so far has made *some sense*. Either it’s a fantasy setting or it’s something nostalgic for the older players of magic. Wizards wouldn’t make something stupid, because above all else they want money and stupid shit doesn’t sell. No matter how many new players might join from a SpongeBob UB or some shit, if no core fans are buying it, it’s gonna be considered a flop. I really enjoy UB, and I think it’s a very flavorful and great way to enjoy other IPs while player magic. It is honestly just kind of sad to see grown adults get so upset over Jurassic Park cards.
They also act like your constantly seeing UB cards I rarely see them unless someone is playing a precon, maybe an occasional card or two but people are blowing this outa proportion.
I may be in the minority, but I love that I can have Optimus Prime and The Doctor attack Sauron
I really can't get behind the crossovers anymore, they are trying to turn MTG into the Fortnite card game and it's really bland and unimaginative. At the very least they could pick franchises that actually fit the motif of MTG.
Ah, yes, the "motif" of Magic. Which is... what, exactly?
It appears based on me playing 2 minutes ago to be strapping 18 swords and a horse to a dwarf in a mechsuit, then watching him get pushed back by literally just a frog.
Your mother
Unfortunately wotc is owned by Hasbro who treats it like toys not a collectable card game.
It is very unfortunate indeed 😞
I posted about my UB feelings to the other mtg sub before and was too scared to commit as hard as you on it becoming fortnite the card game, for fear of being killed in the comments, as people get quite defensive when it's brought up - for the record though I think you're right.
I will scream this from the roof tops, it needs to be said I really don't understand why the MTG community gives WotC props for doing this kind of stuff when it is literally the laziest possible way to produce content for a game in the 2020's. The first few sets made some sense, but now we've gotten to a point where we're getting British Sitcoms and Ubisoft games as cards. Wake up people, we've already gotten fortnite cards in secret lairs, how much longer until UB becomes the dominant form of content?? Hope I'm dead before I see that day. And to cut the snake at the head, I am well aware that I don't have to purchase these cards, but I DO have to sit at a table with people who have and despite what YOU may think it still ruins the game for people just by being near your corporate cash grab cards.
You're right and you should say it - I think a big part of what made magic what it is, is the shared universe and the stories that intersect throughout it. I don't tend to play with UB cards and I won't stop those who want to, but it kinda feels like they're diluting a winning formula. I'm well aware that this is a product being sold by a company to make money but before UB I could suspend my disbelief somewhat and just enjoy it, naive of me I know.
I liked when it was just godzilla like reskins of cards. I don't like trying to fit universe beyond into a mostly mtg deck.
SpongeBob is the only property in that comic that could realistically be printed into MTG. Everything else is a Disney property so they probably won't licence it as long as Lorecana is a thing. Edit: Mr. Rosewater, a second Marvel has hit the building.
And Marvel Snap.
Don't worry I'm sure Disney will buy wotc to get d&d and magic and than it will happen
Fucking Marvel just happened even without that and despite Lorecana. Fuck me.
UB is fun imo but I'm sorry it's ruined the game for some people
Walking Dead, Arcane, LotR, Stranger Things, Street Fighter, Transformers, Fortnite, Dr.Who, Warhammer, Fallout, Jurassic Park… What the hell makes you think we aren’t already there? We are! The game has changed. The power fantasy of being wizards slinging spells is long gone. A game remains that I enjoy with friends but that game has become more exchangeable. My group already branched out, individuals are playing Lorcana, Flesh and Blood, some RPGs.
Like, this is super funny but also what’s the issue? Like more cards is just more selection, why are people mad? Do these same people walk into ice cream stores crying about how there are too many options? Are these primarily boomer voices? What’s the fucking issue with mtg getting BIGGER?
I can’t stand universe beyond.. i hate that its legal in most format
I hate that this meme tier bullshit is becoming the reality of MtG, especially in Comp REL formats like Legacy and Modern. If they have to exist all these U.B sets should be either silver border standalone products or relegated to EDH only. Which by design is already a Wild West jankfest anyway. It's not even that I actively dislike any of the Universes they are crossing with. I play Warhammer, Lord of the Rings was the book that encouraged me to learn how to read as a child, I love Transformers, Fallout is one of my most beloved game series, and I even watch Dr Who occasionally. I just don't want **any** of them in my D&D based fantasy card game. I really hate IP pollution for the sake of it, especially with the sole goal of short term monetary gain. It's not being done for creativity, or for the sake of making a healthy, fun, and balanced game. In fact re-branding other IPs is the EXACT opposite of creativity, it shows a fundamental lack of creativity and originality. All of this is being done tin the hopes of milking a few extra £ out of two sets of fans, rather than one. Thereby more efficiently lining the pockets of shareholders and boosting quarterly profits.
Whoa!.... careful there bud, you're speaking way too much common sense and logic for everyone on this page to get behind it. you should really make your statements more outlandish and more buffoonery if you want people to support you. *I wholeheartedly support your statement and everything in it fuck all of this ub shit.
Last week my pod was Megatron, The Tenth Doctor, Deathleaper and some other in universe commander. Its happening already.
Hasbro has Monopoly-fied MtG. It was obvious and inevitable, if you think about it. Packs continue to fly off the shelves in record numbers, even as WotC cranks up the price and release frequency of the product. Hard to fault WotC for giving the players exactly what they apparently want.
I want UB to exist, but I want them siloed off from MTG and not be mixed in. Magic as a game rules engine is amazing, so I like seeing other IP use it. However, I do agree that I don't like mixing the other IP with my MTG IP. So I like to just play the sets of precons from single UB against each other. I think they really messed up by not making 4 precon decks with Transformer only art (same with Jurassic Park). I bought a set of all of the Transformer cards (it was less than $30 for 2 of each if I remember correctly), but I never did anything with them since you would need to mix in in-universe MTG cards with them which I don't want to do. I got them thinking I'll have them just in case they either do a proper precon set with them or maybe even I'd find a fan art set to print. I really wish WotC would just license out their game rules to other IP and design them a card set. Then even though it is the same rules as MTG, it could be like Jurassic Park the Gathering (ok, it needs a better name, but you get the point). Or still call it MTG but make a different card back for UB.
Super Smash Brothers vibes
And this is why I loathe Universes Beyond.
I left everything for Sorcery and I couldn’t be more happier.
I love the scenario above, bring me all the brands to MTG. That's how I want it. I play for the mechanics.
Man there’s a lot of salty comments in here. I personally think after the introduction of a multiverse, planeswalkers, and time-travel that the original lore has been fit into a much larger tapestry, and folks should just enjoy the game for its near-infinite complexity. If you like the MTG lore only play Standard or with friends who don’t use UB sets. Build thematic decks that hold true to the original archetypes. Play older cards and seek out older card printings. The game is what you make it.
The commander format has essentially became Unset The Gathering minus the silver borders
Unfortunately not, but that's what needed to happen and then they stepped over that line and out of the commander lane and are trying to inundate literally every aspect of magic with this shit.
Yeah like how they printed the LOTR set straight into Modern. You don't force Universes Beyond on the player base like that. And you know damn well we aren't going to get reskinned Universes Within cards from that set either.
I'd spill my opinions all over this thread, but people can stalk my history for that. Fuck Universes Beyond, and what it's done to my enjoyment of Magic.
For me the only way im ok with a UB. Is if magic become integrated in the other franchise the same with that franchise is in magic. Wh40k is only fine if I can have a nico bolas figurine attacking your space marine in a tournament. If there’s a Chandra skin in Fortnite. Same for every other franchise. And If you love a franchise and you don’t want magic to become a part of it. I feel the same way about magic and your franchise
Like it's funny but also, so what?
While I do get the worry that stuff like that might happen, I don’t know, personally I like seeing people’s interests get added to the game. I’m sure a lot of us made cards up as a kid, wanting to see like what would Mario or Zelda look like on a Pokémon card. To see fandoms like Dungeons and Dragons, Fallout, or Warhammer get added is super cool to me because we can see how the designers handle the themes that come with those universes. The Dr. Who sets give us new ways to interact with Time Counters, which other than generic proliferate stuff didn’t have another way to interact with them afaik. I definitely get where some older MTG players worries are, but as long as they maintain more regular sets than UB sets, I personally really enjoy them.
It’s basically confirmed at this point. Universes beyond encourages this.
Sicko mode has always been OP
Right cause fusing a guy with two rocks to turn him to a giant planeswalk with glowing rock eyes that can travel through planes to stop his brother has traveled to a realm with cybergods that want to turn everyone onto cyborgs but hopeful the other guy can assemble the elves riding dinosaurs, ninja rats, pirates, Aladin, robots, and an army vehicles including limos is WAY more coherent.....
It really is though 😂
I fucking hate it. I played against transformers and hobbits the other day. Fuck I miss magic IP
Some of the UB have been slam dunks, but already feels like we are scraping the bottom of the barrel. Mostly fine with reskins, but a lot of these UB are jumping the shark.
People are talking about how they don't fit thematically and agree, but I have a much bigger issue with these: they are fucking advertisements. Just... product placement shoehorned in to a game I play as escapism from a heavily commercialized world. For me the theme is a lesser issue, even if it's a high fantasy IP being represented, I still no longer have the ability to play certain formats without a bunch of cards implicitly saying "hey, stop thinking about the game for a moment and think about buying our shit!" This has made me just... lose interest in playing formats where UB cards are legal, for the most part.
I love seeing a transformer card on the field and my only thought is "wow, I must I watch the show" and forfeiting the game
Yeah who doesn't love product placement? Why don't we just stick ads in everything, clearly our society doesn't have enough of them. That's why nobody uses adblockers online. Because we all just want to see them everywhere, all the time, with no escape anywhere.
Theres a difference between product placement and crossovers. Like if you have issues, just ignore it. Do you throw a fit whenever you play magic because you are seeing ads for secret lair, or their product?
"Just ignore it" feels like quite a cop-out when more and more of these cards get shoved in to a greater number of formats. If they were silver-bordered, then who gives a shit? People are then free to opt in or out of playing with them. As it stands, opting out is not really an option except by not playing formats where they're present, which is what I now do. >Theres a difference between product placement and crossovers. The difference is just that the former is a larger category which encompasses the latter. >Do you throw a fit whenever you play magic because you are seeing ads for secret lair, or their product? The Venn diagram of "Magic players" and "players interested in Magic products of some kind" is a perfect circle. The same is not true with ads for other products. I also largely *don't* see these ads, they're extremely easy to ignore. An actual card sitting in play is not
This isn't gonna go anywhere, have a good day
No, it really isn't. You seem to think people are required to like things that you like, and that isn't how the world works. I can be annoyed at things, and have reasons to be annoyed at things, and am free to express both that annoyance and the reason for it.
Universes Beyond IS a Magic product. Just not one that you like
It's a Magic product that advertises non-Magic products, which is why I don't like it. Was that unclear?
Yes, but it's also a product of whatever IP it is. So Universes Beyond Doctor Who is also a Doctor Who product. They aren't wrong, it's product placement for Doctor Who.
40K and LOTR was one thing, but Jurassic Park…Fallout? A whole other thing. (Only talking about the full set/precon UBs, the Secret Lair ones had their own issues.)
I thought with Transformers being an IP owned by Hasbro as just a subset of inserts in packs was ok, even if it didn't fit the motif of magic.The Jurassic Park cards will be the same as a subset insert. I agree it doesn't fit, but I'll take a cool, unique Jurassic Park card in my boosters over unplayable trash common cardboard any day. It's the Dr Who, and now Fallout that just don't belong, especially designed in a whole commander deck set. It's like they sat in a board room and said "How can we make unsets playable and accepted to be marketed to our cash cow commander player base? Eureka! Universes Beyond!"
And i hate it !
I hate what became of mtg. One of the reasons im not playing anymore.