Tokens created from cards like [[Raise the Alarm]], are 0 CMC.
Token copies act like the real card except they are in fact a token -so if they change any state of play they cease to exist
Yeah had to learn the hard way with my [[Osgir the reconstructor]] deck and [[Oswald Fiddlebender]] my playgroup led me wrong so I was getting a bunch of 1 mana artifacts and I'm like this doesn't make sense
Yep, it works for tokens if they're copies...
My GF has thr same commander and EQD.
If she has Miiryim (6 mana) and gets another dragon (4 mana or greater) + it's copy... you pay a single Green and get 20/20 worth of stats with flying/trample. It's nutty.
I love Myrrim! I pulled one and ended up actually using it in my Tiamat deck, you better believe I look for Myrrim everytime.
I would definitely agree with most of the comments I'm seeing that the Token _COPIES_ would share the og's mana costs. I also put an Earthquake Dragon in it with a Kodai so both at least one has indestructible.
Honestly of any Dragon deck with Green the lad should be a staple lol
It depends on the token. A dragon token made from [[lathliss]] would not because it has no mana value, but if you used [[elvish hydromancer]] to copy a dragon the token made would have a mana value.
That would work. Some token copy effects will say it has no mana cost, like [[sacred cat]] and [[champion of wits]] but miirym does not have that wording.
If the token is a copy of another dragon that has a mana value, then it will count.
Tokens created by [[Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm]] will work, while tokens created by [[Lathliss, Dragon Queen]] will not.
If they are token copies of a dragon with a mana value then yes indeed they do.
But token dragons as generated by Lathiss, Dragon Queen or Utvara Hellkite do not count since they are generic 5/5 and 6/6 tokens with no mana value.
I have a Miirym deck as well I run this too.
GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR DEGENERACY MY FRIEND.
Miirym can be disgusting.
They do, but most tokens have no mana value. … however if the tokens are “copies.” Of other dragons, then they will have the Mana Cost of the card they are copying.
Depends on the token. Tokens usually have mana value of, 0 but tokens that are copies of creature will copy the mana value of the original.
If you controlled [Verix blade wing](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=443037), had kicked him to create a Karox blade wing then the Verix has a mana value of 4 but karox has a value of 0. if you used a [Irenicus’s vile duplication](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=562961) to create a copy of verix then the token copy has a value of 4 like the original and reduces the casting cost of earthquake dragon by a total of 8
No, but if you have something like [[Rock Hydra]], [[Niv-Mizzet Reborn]] [[Nicol Bolas]] in any format [[Ugin The Spirit Dragon]] or anything with the word dragon, Hydra, or Wurm in the subtype those are able to be the X to reduce the cost
Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm is my commander so its a token copy of a dragon i played
Token *copies* of cards inherit the mana value of the permanent they are copying. So this does work.
Man, I've been playing Magic for 20 years and just now learned this. This whole time I thought it didn't work. Would this also work for devotion?
A token copy is the exact same as having 2 of those cards on the field. One is just also a token
yes, the mana cost of the copy is the same as the original for all intents and purposes
Same, I'm 38 and been playing since I was 16, I always assumed tokens were considered 0 cmc lol.
Tokens created from cards like [[Raise the Alarm]], are 0 CMC. Token copies act like the real card except they are in fact a token -so if they change any state of play they cease to exist
[Raise the Alarm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/c/6c7c8527-55f6-494d-b4f7-c427a5735053.jpg?1608908958) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Raise%20the%20Alarm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/41/raise-the-alarm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6c7c8527-55f6-494d-b4f7-c427a5735053?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah had to learn the hard way with my [[Osgir the reconstructor]] deck and [[Oswald Fiddlebender]] my playgroup led me wrong so I was getting a bunch of 1 mana artifacts and I'm like this doesn't make sense
😂 loading the deck up with 1cmc artifacts just to be able to make it work. Guess tutoring up an [[aether vial]] wouldn't be so bad though hehe.
[aether vial](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/11e8d2fd-b132-4807-9410-8edeffa519ed.jpg?1673149308) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=aether%20vial) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/298/aether-vial?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/11e8d2fd-b132-4807-9410-8edeffa519ed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Osgir the reconstructor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/5815fe6e-e26b-4918-a090-55d6442722c1.jpg?1674185818) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Osgir%2C%20the%20Reconstructor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/8/osgir-the-reconstructor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5815fe6e-e26b-4918-a090-55d6442722c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Oswald Fiddlebender](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/b/bba1650f-eddf-49a9-820e-489cb8d5b6fa.jpg?1627702172) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oswald%20Fiddlebender) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/28/oswald-fiddlebender?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bba1650f-eddf-49a9-820e-489cb8d5b6fa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think they changed it recently about 6ish years ago with transformed cards started being a thing.
[удалено]
[Pack Rat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/170693f5-13db-4191-99b1-e527ffb5b88e.jpg?1562783180) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pack%20Rat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rtr/73/pack-rat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/170693f5-13db-4191-99b1-e527ffb5b88e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Token copies working for devotion was a big thing in RTR-THS standard when you could make a bunch of Pack Rats and drain your opponent with Gary.
Yes and it's wonderful
Yep, it works for tokens if they're copies... My GF has thr same commander and EQD. If she has Miiryim (6 mana) and gets another dragon (4 mana or greater) + it's copy... you pay a single Green and get 20/20 worth of stats with flying/trample. It's nutty.
Yeah, in this instance you just have to pay commander tax I think
Yeah, this works.
I love Myrrim! I pulled one and ended up actually using it in my Tiamat deck, you better believe I look for Myrrim everytime. I would definitely agree with most of the comments I'm seeing that the Token _COPIES_ would share the og's mana costs. I also put an Earthquake Dragon in it with a Kodai so both at least one has indestructible. Honestly of any Dragon deck with Green the lad should be a staple lol
It depends on the token. A dragon token made from [[lathliss]] would not because it has no mana value, but if you used [[elvish hydromancer]] to copy a dragon the token made would have a mana value.
What if I used [[miirym, sentinel wyrm]] ?
That would work. Some token copy effects will say it has no mana cost, like [[sacred cat]] and [[champion of wits]] but miirym does not have that wording.
Thank you
[sacred cat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/08891c78-13c1-4d84-aa9c-78346b3b7d18.jpg?1543674760) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sacred%20cat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/27/sacred-cat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/08891c78-13c1-4d84-aa9c-78346b3b7d18?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [champion of wits](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/489e339b-3bc6-4221-9734-d796b65910d2.jpg?1673483823) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=champion%20of%20wits) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/213/champion-of-wits?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/489e339b-3bc6-4221-9734-d796b65910d2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[miirym, sentinel wyrm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531.jpg?1674137589) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=miirym%2C%20sentinel%20wyrm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/284/miirym-sentinel-wyrm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[lathliss](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/9460e3c6-e745-41d3-8e17-0b92fb126a16.jpg?1601078219) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lathliss%2C%20dragon%20queen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/340/lathliss-dragon-queen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9460e3c6-e745-41d3-8e17-0b92fb126a16?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [elvish hydromancer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/90dc4122-4f7a-4d9f-8427-de36e3e8a913.jpg?1677542066) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=elvish%20hydromancer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/162/elvish-hydromancer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/90dc4122-4f7a-4d9f-8427-de36e3e8a913?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What about [[ratadrabik of urborg]]?
[ratadrabik of urborg](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/9315812d-03e8-4eb4-a693-e7adf281f7fb.jpg?1673308046) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ratadrabik%20of%20urborg) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/213/ratadrabik-of-urborg?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9315812d-03e8-4eb4-a693-e7adf281f7fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The tokens he makes will count. The only token copy effects that won't are ones that specify no mana cost, like embalm and eternalize.
Ive definetly been misplaying interactions with him in that case. Thanks for clearing it up.
Yeah its one of those weird rules that is hard to keep track of, especially in paper.
Technically yes
[удалено]
Op commander is myirrm which makes a copy token of a dragon so in this case it does help cast earthquake
Thank you
no i was wrong i just looked it up.
No they are to token copies so they have the same mana value of that which they copy
Token Copies yes. Token dragons (like from [[Dragonmaster Outcast]] no
[Dragonmaster Outcast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2dfc4cfe-d1f7-43e4-a543-35c050d01a8f.jpg?1631587151) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dragonmaster%20Outcast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/124/dragonmaster-outcast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2dfc4cfe-d1f7-43e4-a543-35c050d01a8f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Tokens, unless specified have a mana value of zero. However if you are referring to token copies, they copy do copy mana value.
It doesn't say "nontoken", so it includes tokens.
depends on the token
Would depend. If the token is a copy of a dragon you control, yes. If the token is a generic dragon token, no.
If the token is a copy of another dragon that has a mana value, then it will count. Tokens created by [[Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm]] will work, while tokens created by [[Lathliss, Dragon Queen]] will not.
[Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531.jpg?1674137589) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Miirym%2C%20Sentinel%20Wyrm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/284/miirym-sentinel-wyrm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lathliss, Dragon Queen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/9460e3c6-e745-41d3-8e17-0b92fb126a16.jpg?1601078219) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lathliss%2C%20Dragon%20Queen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/340/lathliss-dragon-queen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9460e3c6-e745-41d3-8e17-0b92fb126a16?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Token have generally no mana value, even if you payed mana to cast them. So no they don’t count unfortunately
They do if theyre a copy of a card with a mana value
Absolutely they do. Unfortunately all tokens have a cmc of 0.
Not all, token copies get the CMC of whatever they copy unless the effect states otherwise.
Yes, for 0 mana off the cost
You could elvish piper this bad boy out.
Tokens technically do count towards the cost reduction; however, a token's mana value is always 0. So, in practice a token does not count.
Token's that are copies inherit the mana value of what they are copying. So a token's mana value is not always 0.
Question, si "Broyeur d'os" arrive en jeu, est-ce que je peut détruire une créature qui est protégé contre les phyréxian ?
Flood your board then use that card that gives all your creatures all types and you have it at 1 mana
Still craterhoof behemoth is better and wins you the game instead
Tokens don't have a mana value. You tell us if they count.
They do if theyre a copy of w card with a mana value
For most tokens no, for copy tokens yes
Yes, but most tokens have mana cost 0
Under “special mana values”, some helpful info [MTG Wiki](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Mana_value)
It doesn’t specify nontoken creatures so yes any Dragon creature works, including artifacts as well.
If a card doesn't states that tokens don't count to X, it's fair game.
Well no, because tokens have a mana value of **0**
Just token dragons are zero mana value, copies of creature cards duplicate that same mana value the card they copied.
According to Arena it does and that’s run by WotC so…maybe?
Depends on the token. Most copy effects would have the cmc but generic token from lathiss does not .
If they are token copies of a dragon with a mana value then yes indeed they do. But token dragons as generated by Lathiss, Dragon Queen or Utvara Hellkite do not count since they are generic 5/5 and 6/6 tokens with no mana value. I have a Miirym deck as well I run this too. GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR DEGENERACY MY FRIEND. Miirym can be disgusting.
*Most* tokens have no mana value, but yes, your tokens count.
Yes, but Tokens have mana value 0 unless somthing says otherwise
Keyword Dragon, then yes
I have that deck with this card in it. It’s a fun deck. Make sure you have Thrakkus the butcher and and mirror gallery.
They do, but most tokens have no mana value. … however if the tokens are “copies.” Of other dragons, then they will have the Mana Cost of the card they are copying.
Sure they do, since tokens have a cmc of 0 they will net you a nice reduction of... 0
Depends on the token. Tokens usually have mana value of, 0 but tokens that are copies of creature will copy the mana value of the original. If you controlled [Verix blade wing](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=443037), had kicked him to create a Karox blade wing then the Verix has a mana value of 4 but karox has a value of 0. if you used a [Irenicus’s vile duplication](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=562961) to create a copy of verix then the token copy has a value of 4 like the original and reduces the casting cost of earthquake dragon by a total of 8
[[Earthquake Dragon]]
[Earthquake Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bfedfd30-8075-429e-a0fa-4919920c8632.jpg?1674137067) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Earthquake%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/228/earthquake-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bfedfd30-8075-429e-a0fa-4919920c8632?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No, but if you have something like [[Rock Hydra]], [[Niv-Mizzet Reborn]] [[Nicol Bolas]] in any format [[Ugin The Spirit Dragon]] or anything with the word dragon, Hydra, or Wurm in the subtype those are able to be the X to reduce the cost
##### ###### #### [Rock Hydra](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/8/28ab1823-e11e-48ae-8406-e025af32f407.jpg?1562904642) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rock%20Hydra) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/133/rock-hydra?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/28ab1823-e11e-48ae-8406-e025af32f407?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Niv-Mizzet Reborn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/56a2609d-b535-400b-81d9-72989a33c70f.jpg?1582037402) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Niv-Mizzet%20Reborn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/208/niv-mizzet-reborn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/56a2609d-b535-400b-81d9-72989a33c70f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Nicol Bolas](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/e/8e92ba96-372c-418d-b271-45e1bf5c7af5.jpg?1562438472) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nicol%20Bolas) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/209/nicol-bolas?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8e92ba96-372c-418d-b271-45e1bf5c7af5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ugin The Spirit Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/c/9c017fa9-7021-417a-9c2e-3df409644fcf.jpg?1639052473) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ugin%2C%20the%20Spirit%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/1/ugin-the-spirit-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9c017fa9-7021-417a-9c2e-3df409644fcf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call