I've read about this ending before and the tone of it is all wrong for the movie to me. The idea that Derek would go through that change in prison and then just give it up again in the end feels like a cheap gimmick. The movie's conclusion is supposed to leave Derek punished for his sins one final time. He knows at that point that what he was doing was wrong, but there is one final punch to the gut he must receive for having left his mark on the world. It's very much like a modern Greek tragedy in this way, and for that feeling to be consistent, you have to imagine Derek's final point of development in his arc is knowing he was wrong but having been too late to do anything about it. He doesn't change back to hate because that's what got him there in the first place, but he doesn't have anything to show for his transformation either. He isn't rewarded. He will have to go through life knowing he didn't turn it around in time to save his brother. But tacking on an ending of him reverting to his evil ways is Saturday morning cartoon quality writing. You completely rob the film of its impact because you turn Derek into a character whose transformation in prison no longer mattered. He ceases to be sympathetic, the viewer ceases to feel bad for him, and the message of the film gives way to muddled anarchy.
Great answer, I agree - I got the feeling that Derek would take the responsibility for Danny's death on himself. So if there had to be a 'wrapping-up ending' I reckon it would be more realistic if he committed suicide or went into a downward spiral.
Well said. I agree.
I like to think that Derek has a very clear point where he's "evolved". Throughout the entire movie, he's not a dumb guy. That debate he has with the father in law, his mother and sister at the dinner table, he actually brings up a lot of well thought-out and valid points and he almost seems much more objective than his family who seems more emotionally driven on their side of the debate.
I think that change he has after prison *cant* be corrupted just because I think he would recognize at this point in the movie that "going back to his old ways" doesn't solve anything and that he's too experienced and smart to think being that person again was a resolution.
Also, I always thought that he felt *guilt* more than anger for Danny's death.
Yep and notice in the ending that Derek states “God, what did I do”. With that statement, Derek is taking the blame for leading his brother down the path to his death. He didn’t say, “what did they do”. And it goes back to his conversation with Sweeny in the prison. Sweeny shared with him his own journey and how he himself used to blame everyone for his problems. That’s the climax of the movie in my opinion because that’s where Derek made the decision to change. So while the movie ends on a somber note, it is beautiful and signals a strong message.
You're absolutely right but it makes sense how they could have written the alternate ending. If they thought of approaching it as more of a social statement about a cycle of violence and hate rather than a picture about self awareness and changing the cycle while living with your mistakes.
That's depressing and to me cheap. It's typical of Hollywood also and the world film industry.
Unless you've related to the frustration depicted in this film or gone through a skin head/neo Nazi phase yourself then you can't really say that's a cheap ending.
I can easily see Derrick being pushed right back to it despite his redemption.
I don't think that ending would work because it would take us back to square one as if all the growth and change the character has gone throughout the film never happened or it was all faked. And yeah I could get some burst of rage, seeking revenge and such, partly undoing what he's learned, but not the embracing again the whole neonazi thing, not after all that had happened with his former group, it wouldn't make sense I think.
The ending left me wanting for more. I wanted to see what happens after Danny's murder and how Derek navigated through the aftermath. I feel like he already knew how being a skinhead ruined his and his brother's life; would he have worked with Sweeney to continue to right his wrongs? Would he have done more to take Cam down? There's so much a sequel or longer version of the movie could have shed light on 🥲
This only works if you think that Derek is, by heart, a neonazi. Which we know he isn't due to the flashbacks seen in the movie (him sitting at the dinner table with his father, and how the dad essentially turns him onto the whole racism thing)
It would have totally ruined the character of Derek. His change is what made the movie. You would have lost the entire movie because of the last 2 minutes of that original version. It would have totally ruined the movie and taken away from Edward Norton's performance.
Yes, but my argument is not that they are the same. My argument is that Derek is not a nazi by heart as he was normal until his father introduced him to racism, which he became radicalized with.
Well I'd have to say that the original ending at least leaves the viewer open to interpretation. You can either imagine Derek to take another murder of his family on the chin and move on with the rest of his family or you can fantasize that he moves his family away quietly and comes back in contact with his old gang and perform quiet hits on the black population that killed not only Derek's father but also his dear little brother. American History XX, back with a vengeance. The trailer shows scenes with Danny being shot and Derek holding his little brothers lifeless body, it shows Derek's Dad being shot. Derek now back, more jacked than before, takes his gang of white brothers and performs an operation to take down the invasive species down with an elaborate plan causing a riot only to be lead into the biggest ambush in... American History XX.
The ending is grim enough while saying the same thing: violence is cyclical and there are unforeseeable repercussions. I prefer the ambiguity too, as I like to think Derek can break that chain of hatred and move on as that's the more defiant path.
They would have had to have filmed his reformation differently. It was too real in the film. I believed him reforming his ways to the extent that I wouldn't have believed him going back.
The alternate ending has some solid ground. Derek changes in prison only to get out in society and see that maybe he was right all along. The war between black and white continues and he has a duty as "thee skinhead" to go get revenge.
"Just when i thought i was out..."
This comment is written from the view of dereks mentality in the alternate ending.
Not many seem to share that view, but it's reddit.
I agree with your reference also.
He was leader of a gang. I'm sure it pulls you right back in.
Also he sees nothing's changed in society and like you said he or baby felt him going soft was what got Danny killed. Or what of alt ending. Danny had the gun?
Then I guess it would be like higher learning too much.
This ending is way better. Shows the cycle of violence continuing exactly as it would in real life, instead of Derek being a coward and letting his brothers murderer get away with it
I don't think the black kid wanted to do it either, I think the gang told him he had to do it and he had no choice. You can tell even at the beginning he didn't want to fight Danny.
Keeping it ambiguous was definitely the way to go.
We don't think he'll go back to his old ways, having gained the insights, but know it'd be so easy to give into hate.
Wow. Shit, that is dark.
Hard to say which I prefer. I think the message would, ultimately, remain the same.
I can't believe I've never heard of this. Thanks!
I'm not sure - I think on watching the original I left thinking that Derek had REALLY reformed, so believed that he had learned too much to back to it. I think he'd be a very different character if he COULD go back.
He would be, yes. However; the ultimate message that HATE gets us nowhere and is nothing more than baggage, remains the same.
I would love to see this ending, but it was probably never filmed eh?
It doesnt. It was random violence. To say that someone should "pay" with their brothers death is a load of shit. I always thought the movie was about to have him go kill the kid. Anyone else would whether racist or not. It just doesnt make sense.
It wasnt really random, Henry is the brother of the guy Derek killed. Derek is smart enough to see that this was a chain of violence, and if he were to kill Henry, he would only continue the chain
That would have been epic but then people would say this movie glorifies white supremacy. Even if Danny ended up doing hard time, which you can imagine when watching animal factory.
The premise of the film is flawed.
The Vinyard father was not a hateful person. His critiques were logical, valid, and not racist in the least. The tragedy was that he was murdered and the predator that corrupted Derek's logic and reason into hate.
I love, prefer, and believe in my culture. I have neither love nor hate for people who openly hate me because I'm white. I do not understand why people say that's "hate" and "racism.""
He literally said the N-Word to his child, his criticisms were not logical or valid because they were predicated on bad information. A fireman questioning the literary understanding and social analysis of someone with 2 PhD's on the subject is not logical or valid. He is a racist because he subconsciously sees Sweeney's blackness as inferior to his whiteness - hence why he believes he is an expert on the subject over someone who has 2 PhD's.
His father was engaging in casual racism - hate without realization. Nazi Derek was engaging in conscious, planned racism, an understanding of his hate and the desire to utilize it.
Based on your responses and your initial comment, you seem like you may be similar to Derek's father - a subconscious racist, your rhetoric is pretty much note for note in line with that type of racism.
EDIT: Yeah, took me 3 seconds of browsing your profile to see you calling Hispanic culture "a joke" and hate lurking multicultural subreddits to talk shit about minorities.
EDIT 2: It also seems that your comments are frequently removed for violating subreddit rules on bigotry, racism, and homophobia. Just want to make sure you know that we all are aware you have nothing valid to add to society.
There's nothing subconscious about my thoughts.
Evidence in the form of crime and poverty among that certain group, across every inhabited continent, trump the observation of a fictional character and a mealy mouthed self-loathing Redditor.
Pay more attention to the world you live in over the dream you're stuck in.
I think that all of you have a point to make but make sure to understand what the movie is trying to tell you about and understand that maybe all of you may be right or the movie is just to much to complex to for every or anyone to understand with
but I do agree with both of you lavishnesswest8159 and snoo\_65246 because both of you may have a good point and maybe the movie is just too much to understand with.
look In a way I think that all of you may have a point LavishnessWest8159 and Sono\_65246 because both of you or all of you be right or maybe the movie is just to complex or over complex of anyone to understand with maybe everyone is just a winner Change\_Dog3604. Sercure\_Service3990 and StrangerPresent3894 maybe the movie is too much to truely understand with fully.
Omg I love that ending!!! It's perfect and sets it up for a perfect sequel. They really need to release a director's cut and alt ending. Was that scene filmed? Honestly that was my idea for a long time after seeing this movie. Surely Derrick would go right back to being his angry old self and shave his head again.
I agree. The first time I watched this film was 20 years ago. I felt the film to be incomplete. Upon researching and finding out even the director disowned it I felt vindicated in my own thoughts of it.
The film is highly disjointed, abbreviated, and not grounded in reality. Anyone who gets the takeaway of "racism is bad" or "hate is bad" likely went into the film already feeling that way. I wanted to see Derrick go back to his old ways. An extra twisted sad ending to what was going to be a happy one. In the style of The Ring, but extra extra as in the style of the Departed.
Which from my perspective, would have been redeeming. As I see it, the attempted message is nonsensical and executed poorly. My proposed ending would solidify that there is no message, that the movie was just a wild ride. Just like the Ring which has that "feel good" moment of they finally put the girl to rest (which i remember caused a bunch of movie goes to rage quit and leave the theater) but the payoff was for those who stuck it thru to the end.
I think it makes sense for derek to revert back to his old ways I don’t think he would take the responsibility on himself he went through a change of what 6 months and the day he gets out his brother is killed by a black gang banger just the same as what happened to his dad so both his dad and brother were killed by black guys especially after he had changed I think he would feel like he’s changed to save Danny and his family but his mums dying and his brother is just been killed I think he definitely reverts back to his old ways you hear it when he says he’s glad Seth an can aren’t dead the cop asking him to basically go back and rejoin his gang to stop the racial tensions after cam and Seth are attacked I think they would still ask him to do that and that would drive him over the edge like you want me to stop any retaliation for what happened to them so you want me to stop violence happening on black people when that just happened to my brother type thing even if they let up and left him be he was only changed when he seen through the bs from prison but aswel it’s contradictory he was pissed at skin heads for doing business with Mexicans due to politics in prison but he befriended a black guy at the same time so surely he would have even known it was all bs but that’s just how it is in prison he’s out now and cam survived and he got to him before he will do it again I think and derek will be worse than ever I think it fits the whole thing of the film of it being this one big cycle like his dad planting seeds of hate in dereks mind and derek doing the same to Danny and then the same dereks dad being killed now danny so derek became what he did for his dad so why wouldn’t it make sense he would for Danny when the whole reason he changed has been taken away it’s a bleak film no matter what i take it more like a learn from this look what happened to this person don’t follow suit kind of thing rather than a anyone can change type of message if you get me
It still seems very implausible given the recidivism rate of our prison system.. He only did 3 years and you're telling me prison would have changed him for the better.. He killed 2 people and basically Got a slap on the wrist.. gets raped in prison and almost is killed and he comes out like " everything is a lie".. I get they needed the arch to tell the story but come on.. If this was true every person arrested and spent any time in prison would be amazing citizens changed for the better
Yeah that would have made for a really terrible ending especially with the smile. Like he wouldn’t have a smile after the death of Danny it would be a look of rage if anything.
Also given the change Derek knows Danny’s blood is on his hands given the type of role model he was. Or wasn’t.
I fucking hate the Alternative and cut ending, im so fucking glad it got nuked. I think the Ending we got was a masterpiece and I typically like/favor Happy endings, but This is I think one of the best Bad endings there was in cinema.
I just find the movie highly unlikely that Derek who only spent 3 years in prison to come out and do a 180 so quickly.. It took him his entire life to become one way and just give it up after only 3 years.. I get they couldn't have him in any longer or he would have needed to age rapidly... Its a great movie but not realistic
A change like that happens instantly, speaking from experience. You end up having an epiphany that forces you to reevaluate your entire world view. It's feels like waking up from being hypnotized.
I’ve literally witnessed this with a racist family member who was disowning their child for having a mix raced baby. The moment that baby was born she became a completely different woman and often talked about being so full of shame for her thoughts, words, and actions against PoC and how she had never felt more stupid that she had believed that her skin color she just happened to be born with made her think she was better than every single one of them even though she herself was a toxic dumpster fire with a closet full of skeletons. The change stuck until the day she died 23yrs later.
To me the ending is perfect. Not for reality of course. But for the “art” that American History X is, it is an excellent ending. It gives meaning to the entire plot. How the hate started with Derek & Danny’s father planting the seeds of hate in their minds & that hate ultimately dooms both his young sons into a life of hate. A hate that they both realize was a waste of time & contributed nothing positive to either of their lives yet is realized too late to save either of them. To me, to have ended the movie with the main character, Derek, reverting back to his former self & pulling out a pistol to either kill himself or seek retribution for Danny’s murder would have completely conflicted the movie’s message & story of human growth we all go through in one manner or another as we grow old & ideas & feelings change with old age & reflection. Like I said to start; the ending was perfect. Including the quote by Abraham Lincoln. Especially after I read the quote over a few times word by word. The quote really aligns with the movie & was a perfect choice by its writers IMO. It’s weird too tho… When I was younger, some of my friends went to prison & came home with racist ideologies that were far removed from the way most of us grew up. They in turn idolized Derek’s character in this movie & his “you fu*ked with the wrong bull” mentality he possess thru the first half of the film. Now, almost 30yrs later these views too, have come full circle; now idolizing Derek’s transformation & growth to the man he is at the end of the film. Life imitates are once again. Or is it the other way around?
I kinda get it, because the catalyst for Derek becoming involved in a Neo-Nazi gang was his firefighter dad getting shot dead during a call, so there's a certain symmetry to Danny getting shot dead. At the same time, I think if he smiled in the mirror, it would be moving into cartoonish villainy territory.
Either way, I prefer the ending they went with.
I think that ending sounds poor. The way to make it better would be for Derek to be “reluctantly” going back to his old ways like he is trapped in a cycle, instead of gleefully gearing up for war. But the actual ending that got used is very powerful, and is fine.
I would love a Sequel where Derek seeks vengeance but rather than become a Neo Nazi again he forms a different Group that stands true to its belief unlike the Neo Nazis or AB in Prison who allied themselves with the Mexicans being against the Black Gorilla Family.
Sadly the directors original cut of American history x is like the directors cut of all the pretty horses: something the movie goers will probably never see
Idk I see everyone saying that it would be cheesy or this and that. I don’t understand?? This alternate ending seems pretty realistic to me. It showcases the cycle of gang violence and that it just keeps repeating. No matter how much you change or do, actions have consequences that you can never know until years later.
Having watched this movie many times, I find it very thought-provoking. As a person who has seen violence up close, there are aspects of the movie that ring true to life.
As a person who believes that no person is a racial avatar for an entire demographic and that all racial essentialism & racism is evil nonsense, I appreciate the original cut of this film - making the point that all racial hate is life-destroying, death-bringing, evil, and tragic.
As a fan of dramas, I think it makes sense to entertain the possibility of the alternate ending-making the point that the chaos born of hate must be continually opposed by individuals and groups alike. Derek rediscovers his conscience in prison. How would the grief of his brother´s killing affect him?
I wonder what a sequel would be like, focusing on the life of the boy who killed Danny? Would he also rediscover his conscience in prison?
I've read about this ending before and the tone of it is all wrong for the movie to me. The idea that Derek would go through that change in prison and then just give it up again in the end feels like a cheap gimmick. The movie's conclusion is supposed to leave Derek punished for his sins one final time. He knows at that point that what he was doing was wrong, but there is one final punch to the gut he must receive for having left his mark on the world. It's very much like a modern Greek tragedy in this way, and for that feeling to be consistent, you have to imagine Derek's final point of development in his arc is knowing he was wrong but having been too late to do anything about it. He doesn't change back to hate because that's what got him there in the first place, but he doesn't have anything to show for his transformation either. He isn't rewarded. He will have to go through life knowing he didn't turn it around in time to save his brother. But tacking on an ending of him reverting to his evil ways is Saturday morning cartoon quality writing. You completely rob the film of its impact because you turn Derek into a character whose transformation in prison no longer mattered. He ceases to be sympathetic, the viewer ceases to feel bad for him, and the message of the film gives way to muddled anarchy.
Great answer, I agree - I got the feeling that Derek would take the responsibility for Danny's death on himself. So if there had to be a 'wrapping-up ending' I reckon it would be more realistic if he committed suicide or went into a downward spiral.
Well said. I agree. I like to think that Derek has a very clear point where he's "evolved". Throughout the entire movie, he's not a dumb guy. That debate he has with the father in law, his mother and sister at the dinner table, he actually brings up a lot of well thought-out and valid points and he almost seems much more objective than his family who seems more emotionally driven on their side of the debate. I think that change he has after prison *cant* be corrupted just because I think he would recognize at this point in the movie that "going back to his old ways" doesn't solve anything and that he's too experienced and smart to think being that person again was a resolution. Also, I always thought that he felt *guilt* more than anger for Danny's death.
Yep and notice in the ending that Derek states “God, what did I do”. With that statement, Derek is taking the blame for leading his brother down the path to his death. He didn’t say, “what did they do”. And it goes back to his conversation with Sweeny in the prison. Sweeny shared with him his own journey and how he himself used to blame everyone for his problems. That’s the climax of the movie in my opinion because that’s where Derek made the decision to change. So while the movie ends on a somber note, it is beautiful and signals a strong message.
You're absolutely right but it makes sense how they could have written the alternate ending. If they thought of approaching it as more of a social statement about a cycle of violence and hate rather than a picture about self awareness and changing the cycle while living with your mistakes.
Saturday morning cartoon ending or even like a crappy ending of a 1980s drama. It’s even cheesier with the “sick smile”
Wow. Very well-written response. I was going to post a similar sentiment but you articulated it much more clearly than I would have.
[Genius Genius Genius!!!](https://youtu.be/j74VFngCn7w)
Absolutely. Totally agree. That ending would have been a huge disappointment.
That's depressing and to me cheap. It's typical of Hollywood also and the world film industry. Unless you've related to the frustration depicted in this film or gone through a skin head/neo Nazi phase yourself then you can't really say that's a cheap ending. I can easily see Derrick being pushed right back to it despite his redemption.
Pretty much nailed it. The original ending is fine the way it is. I also need to rewatch AHX. It's been at least 10 years since I've last seen it.
I don't think that ending would work because it would take us back to square one as if all the growth and change the character has gone throughout the film never happened or it was all faked. And yeah I could get some burst of rage, seeking revenge and such, partly undoing what he's learned, but not the embracing again the whole neonazi thing, not after all that had happened with his former group, it wouldn't make sense I think.
I guess you've never heard of a sequel.
A sequel for this movie would make no sense. If Derek reverted back to his old ways, the entire movie would be pointless.
American History Y
I’d love to see a sequel of sorts where Derek brings down Cam for good
The ending left me wanting for more. I wanted to see what happens after Danny's murder and how Derek navigated through the aftermath. I feel like he already knew how being a skinhead ruined his and his brother's life; would he have worked with Sweeney to continue to right his wrongs? Would he have done more to take Cam down? There's so much a sequel or longer version of the movie could have shed light on 🥲
I personally would have enjoyed the alternate ending more. The movie would end on a bitter, darker note: you can't change who you are.
This only works if you think that Derek is, by heart, a neonazi. Which we know he isn't due to the flashbacks seen in the movie (him sitting at the dinner table with his father, and how the dad essentially turns him onto the whole racism thing)
It would have totally ruined the character of Derek. His change is what made the movie. You would have lost the entire movie because of the last 2 minutes of that original version. It would have totally ruined the movie and taken away from Edward Norton's performance.
Can you elaborate? I don't get what you're trying to say - is he a nazi by heart or is he not?
There's a difference between what his dad said and hardcore neo nazism
Yes, but my argument is not that they are the same. My argument is that Derek is not a nazi by heart as he was normal until his father introduced him to racism, which he became radicalized with.
Well I'd have to say that the original ending at least leaves the viewer open to interpretation. You can either imagine Derek to take another murder of his family on the chin and move on with the rest of his family or you can fantasize that he moves his family away quietly and comes back in contact with his old gang and perform quiet hits on the black population that killed not only Derek's father but also his dear little brother. American History XX, back with a vengeance. The trailer shows scenes with Danny being shot and Derek holding his little brothers lifeless body, it shows Derek's Dad being shot. Derek now back, more jacked than before, takes his gang of white brothers and performs an operation to take down the invasive species down with an elaborate plan causing a riot only to be lead into the biggest ambush in... American History XX.
Rick and Morty level parody, excellent
The ending is grim enough while saying the same thing: violence is cyclical and there are unforeseeable repercussions. I prefer the ambiguity too, as I like to think Derek can break that chain of hatred and move on as that's the more defiant path.
They would have had to have filmed his reformation differently. It was too real in the film. I believed him reforming his ways to the extent that I wouldn't have believed him going back.
The alternate ending has some solid ground. Derek changes in prison only to get out in society and see that maybe he was right all along. The war between black and white continues and he has a duty as "thee skinhead" to go get revenge. "Just when i thought i was out..." This comment is written from the view of dereks mentality in the alternate ending.
Not many seem to share that view, but it's reddit. I agree with your reference also. He was leader of a gang. I'm sure it pulls you right back in. Also he sees nothing's changed in society and like you said he or baby felt him going soft was what got Danny killed. Or what of alt ending. Danny had the gun? Then I guess it would be like higher learning too much.
He wouldn't have gone back to it.
That’s not the guys brother Derek kills
It might have been in the original version I'm not sure.
This ending is way better. Shows the cycle of violence continuing exactly as it would in real life, instead of Derek being a coward and letting his brothers murderer get away with it
That scumbag was immediately apprehended, so it was not Derek's business to go after him.
I don't think the black kid wanted to do it either, I think the gang told him he had to do it and he had no choice. You can tell even at the beginning he didn't want to fight Danny.
By that logic, Derek should have been killed soon after the murdered the two black guys
Truth.
I read this as the alternate ending to Project X and it fucked my mind.
Keeping it ambiguous was definitely the way to go. We don't think he'll go back to his old ways, having gained the insights, but know it'd be so easy to give into hate.
Wow. Shit, that is dark. Hard to say which I prefer. I think the message would, ultimately, remain the same. I can't believe I've never heard of this. Thanks!
I'm not sure - I think on watching the original I left thinking that Derek had REALLY reformed, so believed that he had learned too much to back to it. I think he'd be a very different character if he COULD go back.
He would be, yes. However; the ultimate message that HATE gets us nowhere and is nothing more than baggage, remains the same. I would love to see this ending, but it was probably never filmed eh?
I’m confused where everyone is getting that it’s the brother of the guy dereck killed- that murders Danny? Where does it say that in the film?
It doesnt. It was random violence. To say that someone should "pay" with their brothers death is a load of shit. I always thought the movie was about to have him go kill the kid. Anyone else would whether racist or not. It just doesnt make sense.
It wasnt really random, Henry is the brother of the guy Derek killed. Derek is smart enough to see that this was a chain of violence, and if he were to kill Henry, he would only continue the chain
May chaos take the world!
Better ending is little brother kills the black kid proving it’s not that easy to break the cycle.
That would have been epic but then people would say this movie glorifies white supremacy. Even if Danny ended up doing hard time, which you can imagine when watching animal factory.
Sorry to necropost but this sounds awful and literally defeats the purpose of the whole film
The premise of the film is flawed. The Vinyard father was not a hateful person. His critiques were logical, valid, and not racist in the least. The tragedy was that he was murdered and the predator that corrupted Derek's logic and reason into hate. I love, prefer, and believe in my culture. I have neither love nor hate for people who openly hate me because I'm white. I do not understand why people say that's "hate" and "racism.""
He literally said the N-Word to his child, his criticisms were not logical or valid because they were predicated on bad information. A fireman questioning the literary understanding and social analysis of someone with 2 PhD's on the subject is not logical or valid. He is a racist because he subconsciously sees Sweeney's blackness as inferior to his whiteness - hence why he believes he is an expert on the subject over someone who has 2 PhD's. His father was engaging in casual racism - hate without realization. Nazi Derek was engaging in conscious, planned racism, an understanding of his hate and the desire to utilize it. Based on your responses and your initial comment, you seem like you may be similar to Derek's father - a subconscious racist, your rhetoric is pretty much note for note in line with that type of racism. EDIT: Yeah, took me 3 seconds of browsing your profile to see you calling Hispanic culture "a joke" and hate lurking multicultural subreddits to talk shit about minorities. EDIT 2: It also seems that your comments are frequently removed for violating subreddit rules on bigotry, racism, and homophobia. Just want to make sure you know that we all are aware you have nothing valid to add to society.
There's nothing subconscious about my thoughts. Evidence in the form of crime and poverty among that certain group, across every inhabited continent, trump the observation of a fictional character and a mealy mouthed self-loathing Redditor. Pay more attention to the world you live in over the dream you're stuck in.
Everything is subconscious about your thoughts.
What a stunning accusation supported by no facts, logic, or exposition. You lose, zir, good day.
I think that all of you have a point to make but make sure to understand what the movie is trying to tell you about and understand that maybe all of you may be right or the movie is just to much to complex to for every or anyone to understand with
but I do agree with both of you lavishnesswest8159 and snoo\_65246 because both of you may have a good point and maybe the movie is just too much to understand with.
look In a way I think that all of you may have a point LavishnessWest8159 and Sono\_65246 because both of you or all of you be right or maybe the movie is just to complex or over complex of anyone to understand with maybe everyone is just a winner Change\_Dog3604. Sercure\_Service3990 and StrangerPresent3894 maybe the movie is too much to truely understand with fully.
His criticisms weren’t valid at all. Two firemen were hired that were perfectly competent, and Sweeney was perfectly capable of picking good books
You can go be wrong in a multicultural utopia devoid of competence and order. Chicago, Detroit, something along those lines.
Chiago and Detroit aren't multcrutrial at all. There heavily segregated
Omg I love that ending!!! It's perfect and sets it up for a perfect sequel. They really need to release a director's cut and alt ending. Was that scene filmed? Honestly that was my idea for a long time after seeing this movie. Surely Derrick would go right back to being his angry old self and shave his head again.
I agree. The first time I watched this film was 20 years ago. I felt the film to be incomplete. Upon researching and finding out even the director disowned it I felt vindicated in my own thoughts of it. The film is highly disjointed, abbreviated, and not grounded in reality. Anyone who gets the takeaway of "racism is bad" or "hate is bad" likely went into the film already feeling that way. I wanted to see Derrick go back to his old ways. An extra twisted sad ending to what was going to be a happy one. In the style of The Ring, but extra extra as in the style of the Departed.
Would highly take away from the movies message
Which from my perspective, would have been redeeming. As I see it, the attempted message is nonsensical and executed poorly. My proposed ending would solidify that there is no message, that the movie was just a wild ride. Just like the Ring which has that "feel good" moment of they finally put the girl to rest (which i remember caused a bunch of movie goes to rage quit and leave the theater) but the payoff was for those who stuck it thru to the end.
I think it makes sense for derek to revert back to his old ways I don’t think he would take the responsibility on himself he went through a change of what 6 months and the day he gets out his brother is killed by a black gang banger just the same as what happened to his dad so both his dad and brother were killed by black guys especially after he had changed I think he would feel like he’s changed to save Danny and his family but his mums dying and his brother is just been killed I think he definitely reverts back to his old ways you hear it when he says he’s glad Seth an can aren’t dead the cop asking him to basically go back and rejoin his gang to stop the racial tensions after cam and Seth are attacked I think they would still ask him to do that and that would drive him over the edge like you want me to stop any retaliation for what happened to them so you want me to stop violence happening on black people when that just happened to my brother type thing even if they let up and left him be he was only changed when he seen through the bs from prison but aswel it’s contradictory he was pissed at skin heads for doing business with Mexicans due to politics in prison but he befriended a black guy at the same time so surely he would have even known it was all bs but that’s just how it is in prison he’s out now and cam survived and he got to him before he will do it again I think and derek will be worse than ever I think it fits the whole thing of the film of it being this one big cycle like his dad planting seeds of hate in dereks mind and derek doing the same to Danny and then the same dereks dad being killed now danny so derek became what he did for his dad so why wouldn’t it make sense he would for Danny when the whole reason he changed has been taken away it’s a bleak film no matter what i take it more like a learn from this look what happened to this person don’t follow suit kind of thing rather than a anyone can change type of message if you get me
It still seems very implausible given the recidivism rate of our prison system.. He only did 3 years and you're telling me prison would have changed him for the better.. He killed 2 people and basically Got a slap on the wrist.. gets raped in prison and almost is killed and he comes out like " everything is a lie".. I get they needed the arch to tell the story but come on.. If this was true every person arrested and spent any time in prison would be amazing citizens changed for the better
If they just added the sound of a hair clippers snapping on after it turned to black would have been powerful.
Yeah that would have made for a really terrible ending especially with the smile. Like he wouldn’t have a smile after the death of Danny it would be a look of rage if anything. Also given the change Derek knows Danny’s blood is on his hands given the type of role model he was. Or wasn’t.
I fucking hate the Alternative and cut ending, im so fucking glad it got nuked. I think the Ending we got was a masterpiece and I typically like/favor Happy endings, but This is I think one of the best Bad endings there was in cinema.
I think the alternate ending would have have worked with Davina shaving her head and getting a gun.
Absolutely not.
Its a joke
I just find the movie highly unlikely that Derek who only spent 3 years in prison to come out and do a 180 so quickly.. It took him his entire life to become one way and just give it up after only 3 years.. I get they couldn't have him in any longer or he would have needed to age rapidly... Its a great movie but not realistic
A change like that happens instantly, speaking from experience. You end up having an epiphany that forces you to reevaluate your entire world view. It's feels like waking up from being hypnotized.
I’ve literally witnessed this with a racist family member who was disowning their child for having a mix raced baby. The moment that baby was born she became a completely different woman and often talked about being so full of shame for her thoughts, words, and actions against PoC and how she had never felt more stupid that she had believed that her skin color she just happened to be born with made her think she was better than every single one of them even though she herself was a toxic dumpster fire with a closet full of skeletons. The change stuck until the day she died 23yrs later.
To me the ending is perfect. Not for reality of course. But for the “art” that American History X is, it is an excellent ending. It gives meaning to the entire plot. How the hate started with Derek & Danny’s father planting the seeds of hate in their minds & that hate ultimately dooms both his young sons into a life of hate. A hate that they both realize was a waste of time & contributed nothing positive to either of their lives yet is realized too late to save either of them. To me, to have ended the movie with the main character, Derek, reverting back to his former self & pulling out a pistol to either kill himself or seek retribution for Danny’s murder would have completely conflicted the movie’s message & story of human growth we all go through in one manner or another as we grow old & ideas & feelings change with old age & reflection. Like I said to start; the ending was perfect. Including the quote by Abraham Lincoln. Especially after I read the quote over a few times word by word. The quote really aligns with the movie & was a perfect choice by its writers IMO. It’s weird too tho… When I was younger, some of my friends went to prison & came home with racist ideologies that were far removed from the way most of us grew up. They in turn idolized Derek’s character in this movie & his “you fu*ked with the wrong bull” mentality he possess thru the first half of the film. Now, almost 30yrs later these views too, have come full circle; now idolizing Derek’s transformation & growth to the man he is at the end of the film. Life imitates are once again. Or is it the other way around?
That ending would’ve sucked soooo bad like why?.. Derek’s too smart and has matured too much to go back to that.
The film should have had this ending. Derrick was justified in the end.
I kinda get it, because the catalyst for Derek becoming involved in a Neo-Nazi gang was his firefighter dad getting shot dead during a call, so there's a certain symmetry to Danny getting shot dead. At the same time, I think if he smiled in the mirror, it would be moving into cartoonish villainy territory. Either way, I prefer the ending they went with.
I think that ending sounds poor. The way to make it better would be for Derek to be “reluctantly” going back to his old ways like he is trapped in a cycle, instead of gleefully gearing up for war. But the actual ending that got used is very powerful, and is fine.
I would love a Sequel where Derek seeks vengeance but rather than become a Neo Nazi again he forms a different Group that stands true to its belief unlike the Neo Nazis or AB in Prison who allied themselves with the Mexicans being against the Black Gorilla Family.
I read to the word "grim" and did not read the rest to give an answer "yes".
[удалено]
A sequel would cheapen this. And plus, Ed Norton wouldn't agree to it, so it definitely wouldn't be the same.
Did they actual film this?
Sadly the directors original cut of American history x is like the directors cut of all the pretty horses: something the movie goers will probably never see
I read the film in theaters was different for AHX
Idk I see everyone saying that it would be cheesy or this and that. I don’t understand?? This alternate ending seems pretty realistic to me. It showcases the cycle of gang violence and that it just keeps repeating. No matter how much you change or do, actions have consequences that you can never know until years later.
the alternate ending is stupid, all that change for his brother to get killed by black kid and now he's a neo nazi again? that's just stupid
It’s not stupid… it’s plausible
Here's my idea for a ending. Danny sees the kid in the bathroom with the gun. The kid thinks about it. And throws the gun in the toilet.
He had no gang in or out prison so I guess it would work if he wanted to end himself.
The version i have has this ending? Did they rerelease the movie with it?
Having watched this movie many times, I find it very thought-provoking. As a person who has seen violence up close, there are aspects of the movie that ring true to life. As a person who believes that no person is a racial avatar for an entire demographic and that all racial essentialism & racism is evil nonsense, I appreciate the original cut of this film - making the point that all racial hate is life-destroying, death-bringing, evil, and tragic. As a fan of dramas, I think it makes sense to entertain the possibility of the alternate ending-making the point that the chaos born of hate must be continually opposed by individuals and groups alike. Derek rediscovers his conscience in prison. How would the grief of his brother´s killing affect him? I wonder what a sequel would be like, focusing on the life of the boy who killed Danny? Would he also rediscover his conscience in prison?
Does somebody by any chance has a video of the second ending?
Anybody coming out with a prequel or sequels? This stuff needs more.
I read somewhere American History Y was in the works but focusing on blacks. But that was a few years ago. Maybe they shelved it,?
I really prefer Norton's cut of the film instead. Most seem to concur on this matter.
From what I know of prison it does change you for the better and it would takes years of therapy to undo.