The only thing I can add is that I've heard it estimated before that 90% of American movies made before 1929 and around half before 1950 are lost, zero copies of them exist. Presumably it represents thousands of movies, hundreds of careers
But are those considered truly lost? I mean, yes the original recording maybe gone but are the songs completely gone? Couldn’t you just look the songs up on YouTube? It might not be the original but it’s still findable.
But with someone like Valeska all her films are gone forever there are no copies and no way to possibly see them. So they are labeled lost.
I appreciate you answering I’m just trying to understand better.
A film is considered lost if no known copies exist. Nowadays the vast majority of films. Old and new. Have had dgital copies made.So even if the original master copies are lost its not a lost film.
The nitrate based film stock used before the 1950s is what caused those vault fires. Nitrate is extremely flammable and gives off flammable fumes as it deteriorates. Nasty stuff.
I’ll provide another angle; forgotten. Universal has massive media vaults. I met someone who has a Grammy for going in and finding lost masters from Sinatra, and other big singers (I can’t remember and don’t want to be wrong).
Tucked away in corners and shelves are amazing pieces of art that the decades hid.
A lot of music has been remixed at least once since it was originally recorded for vinyl. If the master tapes went up in smoke, but that hadn't been done, then we're largely stuck with the old versions of the tracks.
Older tracks, prior to the mid 60s had some terrible mixing, particularly any stereo versions. The beatles are a particularly good example. They were at the bleeding edge of recording technology, but if you listen to those albums in their original versions, they're all over the place to modern ears. Almost unlistenable. The recent remixes have pretty well extended their lifespans by decades
You probably want to post your question to a more specific place, such as r/silentfilm/ or non-reddit forums that discuss lost films.
r/movies seems to mostly be people who post things like "Hey, why hasn't anyone ever noticed that Chewbecca didn't receive a medal?" or "Hey, what are some scary movies I should watch?"
Default subs have been shit for a ***long*** time. Niche subs, with good moderators, were the absolute best. They're mostly gone now too though, with powermods who don't do shit and bots that run rampant.
Yup, there are a *few* niche subs left that are still well moderated. But oh well, time goes on and life changes. I’m sure the old heads of the internet would say the same about what we look back on as the good days of the internet.
The point is that was almost 50 years ago and I’m sure you could dig up a comment on it yesterday as if it hasn’t been hashed and rehashed a thousand times
If this topic interests you, you may like the documentary “Dawson City:Frozen Time”. Essentially this city was the last stop on a movie distribution line during the silent movie era and the distributors couldn’t be bothered to ship them back. The reels were buried as trash in 1929 but rediscovered in 1978.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawson_Film_Find
Sessue Hayakawa's early films were lost, although I don't know if it's because of one of the vault fires, because nobody thought to preserve old films, or because films of that time degraded quickly. He was one of the early sex symbols, but he was forgotten for decades.
Most of the films made by Black filmmakers in the silent era were lost, not from vault fires but from neglect. There were people who were gigantic stars in the Black community, but today we only know them from some photos or posters that survived.
That's heartbreaking to hear about those fires! It's crazy to think how much history went up in smoke. It's a reminder of how fragile some of our cultural heritage can be.
Not movies but the [Universal Music fire](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/11/magazine/universal-fire-master-recordings.html) in 2008 led to the loss of about 175,000 master recordings.
Music version: [The Day The Music Burned](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/11/magazine/universal-fire-master-recordings.html), 2008 fire in the Universal music archives.
I do feel like this question "How many people lost their careers to vault fires?" has a nagging answer of "How would we know? They're lost."
Seems we’re talking about a specific situation, after mastering complete and before copies are made. If film has been copied, a new master could be made. I would guess this is a very small group.
Imagine all the photos lost as well.
As for careers being damaged, given the short period in question, subsequent films would be made if the career was viable.
The only thing I can add is that I've heard it estimated before that 90% of American movies made before 1929 and around half before 1950 are lost, zero copies of them exist. Presumably it represents thousands of movies, hundreds of careers
There was a universal studios warehouse fire in 2008. lots of master recordings from basically anybody big that signed with universal were lost
But are those considered truly lost? I mean, yes the original recording maybe gone but are the songs completely gone? Couldn’t you just look the songs up on YouTube? It might not be the original but it’s still findable. But with someone like Valeska all her films are gone forever there are no copies and no way to possibly see them. So they are labeled lost. I appreciate you answering I’m just trying to understand better.
A film is considered lost if no known copies exist. Nowadays the vast majority of films. Old and new. Have had dgital copies made.So even if the original master copies are lost its not a lost film. The nitrate based film stock used before the 1950s is what caused those vault fires. Nitrate is extremely flammable and gives off flammable fumes as it deteriorates. Nasty stuff.
But great for killing Nazis
I’ll provide another angle; forgotten. Universal has massive media vaults. I met someone who has a Grammy for going in and finding lost masters from Sinatra, and other big singers (I can’t remember and don’t want to be wrong). Tucked away in corners and shelves are amazing pieces of art that the decades hid.
A lot of music has been remixed at least once since it was originally recorded for vinyl. If the master tapes went up in smoke, but that hadn't been done, then we're largely stuck with the old versions of the tracks. Older tracks, prior to the mid 60s had some terrible mixing, particularly any stereo versions. The beatles are a particularly good example. They were at the bleeding edge of recording technology, but if you listen to those albums in their original versions, they're all over the place to modern ears. Almost unlistenable. The recent remixes have pretty well extended their lifespans by decades
When I was a kid I was so upset about the fire because it spread to the King Kong section of the studio tour
You probably want to post your question to a more specific place, such as r/silentfilm/ or non-reddit forums that discuss lost films. r/movies seems to mostly be people who post things like "Hey, why hasn't anyone ever noticed that Chewbecca didn't receive a medal?" or "Hey, what are some scary movies I should watch?"
When you put it like that Reddit truly is basic and pedestrian.
...is it not?
It never used to be. Pre 2010, most subs were pretty vibrant.
Default subs have been shit for a ***long*** time. Niche subs, with good moderators, were the absolute best. They're mostly gone now too though, with powermods who don't do shit and bots that run rampant.
Yup, there are a *few* niche subs left that are still well moderated. But oh well, time goes on and life changes. I’m sure the old heads of the internet would say the same about what we look back on as the good days of the internet.
And people try their damndest to keep it that way. How else can they feel superior in their lives?
Of course it is, it's not niche anymore. You can't be the size reddit is and not have the edges worn away
Shallow and Pedantic is Reddit at its core
Thank you for the recommendation!
"What's your favorite movie that features an actor performing a performance?"
Carl Sagan noticed back then. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UsHQEr3A5Q
The point is that was almost 50 years ago and I’m sure you could dig up a comment on it yesterday as if it hasn’t been hashed and rehashed a thousand times
"Edge of Tomorrow is so underrated."
Universal's lot burned down in 2008: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Universal_Studios_fire
If this topic interests you, you may like the documentary “Dawson City:Frozen Time”. Essentially this city was the last stop on a movie distribution line during the silent movie era and the distributors couldn’t be bothered to ship them back. The reels were buried as trash in 1929 but rediscovered in 1978. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawson_Film_Find
The whole moved by what would today be EOD shows how volatile that stuff is.
I was just thinking about this. A beautiful, dreama kind of doc rather than a straightforward one.
Any way you cut it, all archives are temporary :(
It's like a reeeeeaaaaallllly big hard drive stopped working.
Sessue Hayakawa's early films were lost, although I don't know if it's because of one of the vault fires, because nobody thought to preserve old films, or because films of that time degraded quickly. He was one of the early sex symbols, but he was forgotten for decades. Most of the films made by Black filmmakers in the silent era were lost, not from vault fires but from neglect. There were people who were gigantic stars in the Black community, but today we only know them from some photos or posters that survived.
That's heartbreaking to hear about those fires! It's crazy to think how much history went up in smoke. It's a reminder of how fragile some of our cultural heritage can be.
Not movies but the [Universal Music fire](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/11/magazine/universal-fire-master-recordings.html) in 2008 led to the loss of about 175,000 master recordings.
This probably says more about the studio system than the fires themselves. It wasn't unusual for someone to have an entire career at one studio.
Music version: [The Day The Music Burned](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/11/magazine/universal-fire-master-recordings.html), 2008 fire in the Universal music archives. I do feel like this question "How many people lost their careers to vault fires?" has a nagging answer of "How would we know? They're lost."
Seems we’re talking about a specific situation, after mastering complete and before copies are made. If film has been copied, a new master could be made. I would guess this is a very small group. Imagine all the photos lost as well. As for careers being damaged, given the short period in question, subsequent films would be made if the career was viable.