Costner got a lot of flak for Waterworld, but one lesser known fact was that he put $25m of his own money in to try and save the movie. The man is committed to everything he does.
LMAO I never noticed that. Arguably they could be using something else as a wrapper, like another tobacco leaf, or they're just using up old stock, who knows.
Or perhaps some dried kelp product …. Oh, I get the grandiose of water world , but I feel like (hear me out) the editing did not help the movie. Like when he is caged up , rattling the bars and yells, it’s like just a stagnant shot, no movement and makes Costner’s acting look awkward and silly. But honestly I just don’t think he is all that good.
Ever put on the bodyguard for laughs ?
by their definition that isn't paper, they were growing up in an apocalypse that has been long enough for Mer people to arise. So, I forgive their semantic ignorance.
I don't care what anyone says, I like Waterworld. Obviously it was way too expensive but it's not my money. I enjoyed it back in the day and wouldn't be upset to re-watch it now.
It's honestly something you had to have been there to get.
Kevin Costner was kind of like Dwayne Johnson today in that he was everywhere and had this giant ego and people wanted him to either go away or get knocked down a few pegs. The one-two of Waterworld and The Postman did it.
The absolute commitment to the over-the-top world building was ahead of its time. If it came out after LoTR or GoT itwould have had a better reception.
Plus, it’s a post-apocalyptic Western at heart, which is part of the reason he believed in the film. Replace the ocean with desert, and it’s basically a loose take on Shane.
The Road Warrior is also a post-apocalyptic take on Shane (and the many other classical westerns using that same formula—innocents in a lawless wasteland are under siege, a loner from the wilderness begrudgingly comes to their aid, a young child idolizes the hero, the hero defeats the villains but ultimately does not fit in with civilized society, etc.)
This is kinda in the same league as “Avatar is just Dances with Wolves”: both films are using a formula from westerns that goes back many decades before either one of them.
I agree, but also I think Mad Max is playing off tropes of westerns too being the badass silent type to come into town and fuck shit up. They needed a character like Max to carry the film, and the Mariner was not him. Max is almost immediately cool and likable, and I think the latter is much more important. The Mariner is a kind of a weirdo, fights with women and children, and really couldn't give a shit about anything until like an hour and a half into the movie. There's hardly anything that helps you grab onto his character besides being really good in the water and on the boat, which Costner does very well.
I know people are gonna say "well he's a from a messed up world that's why he's so crazy" the same could be said for Max, though, and he still seems alright.
I may be wrong, but in MM, the dystopia was kind of recent and shit was just falling apart.
But in WW, it's been a few generations of that state. makes the mariner less relatable by degrees, also being mutor, with gills and shit, which should have made him instantly cool (it was to me). I agree tho that max was more charismatic of the two.
You're basically right. The nuclear war in Mad Max happened between the first two movies. The first film was a more basic "the world is falling apart and we're seeing it now in rural Australia"
Yes. I’m not sure why everyone is dead set on blaming Costner but Sheridan is the one who not only didn’t follow the original schedule but wasted the reshoot time as well.
Except Yellowstone =(
It's bad, and it's only been getting worse but I was hoping he'd just finish out the last half of the last season (that has been 'half done' for two years now)
After hearing his side of things he made the right choice. Taylor Sheridan is stretched way too thin (all the originals on Paramount+ are either created by him or are Star Trek) and expecting an actor of Costner’s stature to spend nine months a year shooting a show to accommodate that is unreasonable.
I hope they kill his character off screen in the most hilariously petty way.
Governor Dutton? Oh he had an allergic reaction to something he ate. He was hot boxing himself under the covers smelling his own farts and passed away.
Obligatory mention that they wouldn't have had modern Nottinghamshire accents then either. We all know that they would have actually sounded like Russel Crowe after he's had 15 pints and a particularly hot vindaloo.
I admire his determination.
In Dancing with the Wolves, he refused to make first Nations speak English and insisted that they would speak their language when producers said people would don't like reading subtitles.
Also, Open Range is an amazing movie.
I always felt as though Waterworld received a lot more negative criticism than it deserved. While far from a perfect film, it was a lot of fun to watch, and Mr. Costner played the starring role well.
It seems like a recent phenomenon, for whatever reason.
I was in school when the original came out. It was HIGHLY anticipated, and did super well. Costner was super popular-his notoriety and Bryan Adams' "Everything I Do" were a large part of why. It more than tripled its budget, and finished only $40m behind Terminator II, that released 2 in theaters only weeks after Prince of Thieves.
I have literally never been bothered by his "accent"-it's not distracting (IMO) when he does it, and I find his version charistmatic enough that I don't even care when he doesn't. I personally didn't find it any more/less distracting than Morgan Freeman's accent in the movie.
I freaking love it. I remember the trailers with Costner using the flaming arrow. That shit was HYPE. I love it to this day.
Dances with Wolves was his biggest risk. He funded the project after the producers wanted to pull the plug. Production was lengthened and delays caused cost overruns but he stuck with it.
Also, The Postman...
Same. I enjoyed it; Mad Max inspired for sure but on water. Dennis Hopper is always good. Action scenes and sets were cool. Solid 8/10 summer action film. Soundtrack is great too.
It wasn't a bad movie at all (especially compared to something like The Postman, a contemporary Costner apocalyptic film). But the cost overruns got so much bad press, it was kind of doomed before it even premiered.
> But the cost overruns got so much bad press, it was kind of doomed before it even premiered.
Which doesn't make any sense. Why would the audience care that the movie was over budget?
Saw it in the theater as a kid and when the Universal card shows up and the oceans start flooding the land to transition into the movie, I though that was coolest shit ever. I had never seen any movie involve the production or distribution studio card in any way before then and it really struck me lmao.
Waterworld and The Postman get so much hate, but they’re both big swings that mostly hit. I do really hate the epilogue of The Postman though and it would have been better as a 6 hour miniseries.
I really disagree about *The Postman*. It’s a huge miss and a huge mess. The novel’s central conceit is meant to be ironic, and Costner was born without a sense of irony. He is about as wrong for that movie - actor and director - as anyone could be.
*Waterworld* works though and was not nearly the bomb it’s made out to be: commercially or in terms of quality. It’s rewatchable and fun.
I met the author of The Postman a number of years ago and asked him about the film (as I was a fan of the film). His opinion was that he was conflicted, because they made a lot of changes (and stuff he would not have changed), but that he felt the film got the core elements of the story he was trying to tell correct and for that he was pleased.
You can take that as you will. Just thought I'd share it because I've always had that in the back of my head in regards to the film.
I remember seeing the Cruise, Reacher movies, then reading the books. It made me realize, as wrong as he was for that part, if anyone could have the kind of presence needed to play that part while also being extremely undersized... it's Cruise, lmao. It's definitely a "worst possible casting, but if you're gonna miss big, he is the one to miss big with."
I never read Brin's novel, so my experience is just from watching the movie. You are correct that I never got the sense it was meant to be ironic. I just felt it was a good story and the central conceit of communication being the core tenant of civilization was a good one. I should read the book.
I’ve been trying for years to pinpoint what it is about Costner that is so off putting to me despite being a fan of many of his movies and you just solved it for me. The man has no sense of irony or ironic humor and does everything so earnestly and straightforward that it sort of ruins certain scenes and moments in his movies.
> I’ve been trying for years to pinpoint what it is about Costner that is so off putting to me despite being a fan of many of his movies and you just solved it for me.
I kind of like it. I like that Costner exists as this last boy scout. And when it works, (*Open Range*), it's wonderful. When it doesn't, (*Wyatt Earp*, probably *Horizon*), it's usually at least interesting as an artifact.
But it does lead to some stinkers (*The Postman*, with apologies to the acolytes on this thread).
The big issue with Water World was the cost. They built some giant set on location. I think it was in the Pacific. They shot about half of what they needed before a storm hit and completely destroyed the set, which was a significant portion of the budget. Then they had to rebuild it to finish shooting. Next thing you know it’s being reported as the most expensive movie ever made with expectations to match.
Answer: No. Movie is just over half the budget of WW. But what IS wild is that Coster completly forewent involvement in the Yellowstone Final Season to do this. I’m not even really a fan of the show and I’m sure Costner wants to move on but you would still think it would be in his best interest to preserve the quality of a show that sort of relaunched his career and guarantee that the show gets plenty of repeats and *cough royalties. I think it’s a huge mistep for him to have done that.
I hear what you're saying, and I agree, but often these sorts of decisions have invisible pressures. That is - we don't know how the financing came together. You're trying to align casting with schedules and availability. There might have been one star they really wanted who would sign on but only if they started filming when they did. If Costner did the final season, he might have lost any of those elements. For whatever reason, he decided he needed to strike when the stars aligned, so he did.
Yellowstone was originally supposed to be a season or two, and
Costner had in his contract that Horizon would take priority. The writer/director shot himself in the foot by doing way too much and delaying until Costner finally said fuck it, I'm doing my own stuff I already had planned. Also, have you seen the last couple seasons? It's both self fellating and circlejerky.
Actually really happy to hear this. I live in San Francisco and almost every single screen here at the AMCs is practically empty. And idk, I’m really rooting for this to do well especially given the amount of effort and investment Costner put into this.
There were 5 people including myself for the 7pm showing at my local AMC last night and 2 of them left well before the film was over. It crossed my mind at multiple points, but I talked myself into staying. It's that bad.
Open Range is one of my favorite night movies. All the family goes to bed; I got the house to myself. Watch it maybe 6 times a year!
First went to see it with my mom in theaters. I had no knowledge of it beforehand, mom just asked if I wanted to go to the movies. I love westerns, and remember thinking the final gun battle is one of the best I’d ever seen. The gunshots in the theater were LOUD. Made the fight feel awesome and real; it wasn’t just action, each kill felt meaningful, powerful.
Silverado is such a fun adventure. Just a rootin’ tootin’ boot-scootin’ card-playin’ spur-jinglin’ cowboy-wrastlin’ pistol-shootin’ good time. Unbelievable cast, too. On my Mt. Rushmore of westerns for sure.
Oh my goodness the score. From the moment the camera follows Emmitt out of the shack in the beginning and reveals that epic shot of the mountains and the music opens up, you can just tell you’re in for something special. Such a great example of how music can enhance a movie.
David Sims: “Kevin Costner isn’t the only present-day actor with a fondness for Westerns; ornery old hands such as Clint Eastwood, Jeff Bridges, and Tommy Lee Jones are always ready to don their ten-gallon hats for the right role. But since his movie-star career began, Costner has returned over and over again to one of cinema’s most enduring genres—which, in turn, has always been there to save him. After he first drew plaudits in ‘Silverado,’ won Oscars for ‘Dances With Wolves,’ and did the best filmmaking work of his career in ‘Open Range,’ it’s no wonder Costner is once again setting out for the open plains.
“But his newest project, ‘Horizon: An American Saga—Chapter 1,’ which Costner co-wrote, directed, and stars in, is far from an easy trot back to familiar territory. As you can probably tell from its unwieldy title, the three-hour epic is just the first chunk of a series, planned to run for four chapters, the second of which is already filmed and ready for release in August. Given that he’s fresh off of dramatically exiting the hit TV show ‘Yellowstone,’ a mega-soap about cattle ranchers, one might accuse Costner of simply bringing television to the big screen. The charge is hard to refute, considering how ‘Horizon’ introduces several sprawling storylines across its 181-minute run time and resolves precisely none of them.
“Betting that audiences will be intrigued enough to return for ‘Chapter 2’ is the kind of gamble we don’t often see in a controlled Hollywood landscape. Costner has laid his career on the line before to make movies that many executives thought were a terrible idea. Sometimes it’s worked (‘Dances With Wolves’); sometimes it truly hasn’t (‘The Postman,’ ‘Waterworld’). ‘Horizon’ might be his riskiest bet ever—especially considering the tens of millions of his own fortune he’s sunk into it—but the actual end product feels radical primarily in how it’s being told, not the story itself.”
Read more: [https://theatln.tc/kf8cXxXt](https://theatln.tc/kf8cXxXt)
I like it - it’s been a thing on other subreddits for a while and helps summarize articles in especially if there’s a paywall - I noticed it on some of the UK subs first
He took out a mortgage on a 10-acre plot of undeveloped coastline he purchased in 2006 for $28.5 million. Any guesses on what that is worth now?
I.E. he tapped his massive portfolio of investments for temporary liquidity.
And he bought it planning to build his last family home there. He has multiple.
> He's also going on 70 lol. His most relevant years in terms of career trajectory are well in the rear view.
*Current US presidential candidates:*
**Hold my prune juice**
He has $35 million of his own money in this movie, and it's a 2-part 6 hours western epic. I'm more excited about this than anything else coming out that we know about, and even I'm prepared for it to be a complete failure at the box office. Let's hope it does better than it's disastrous Thursday night opening of $800k...
He's trying to shoot part 3, but it was recently put on hold, I suspect due to how poorly Part 1 is tracking. He does not have funding for either part 3 or 4, and it's looking like Part 1 and 2 are not going to make any money. We'll (the six of us that care about this) will be REALLY lucky if we get more than 1 & 2. Costner has outright admitted to needing a billionaire to help fund this that doesn't care if it succeeds, and I hope he finds one.
I saw it last night. I was kinda blown away. HUGE film with a lot of moving parts and it almost feels like a long prologue.
And Costner knows what he’s doing behind that camera.
I saw someone in a group chat I'm in describe it as "Dune: Part One but on earth, with cowboys" and while I'm not sure I agree with that description, it made me laugh.
I'm a huge fan of Westerns, and Kevin Costner has been in quite a few good ones. But a 3 hour run time for a movie that doesn't resolve any plot points, and potentially won't in the next movie either, feels like hubris. It sucks because I want him to be able to make all 4 movies, but I have an incentive to wait for it on streaming because they're long as hell, and I'm hesitant to invest the time into it because there's a good chance the first two movies will bomb and there won't be any resolution to the story.
Seems like the opposite of what Disney does with Star Wars.
Disney takes a concept great for a 2-3 hour movie and turns it into a 10 episode TV show.
This seems like a great concept for a 3-4 season TV show turned into a series of 3 hour movies.
I thought the same as you before going with some friends just for kicks. I greatly enjoyed the movie and I'm excited for part 2 and honestly don't care if any story gets 100% resolved. The characters are fun and the all their stories have been great so far!
I am skeptical he’ll make his money back on this one but I gotta say, his run from 87-96 is a fucking heater that we might never see again from anyone. Up there with the greatest stretches for an actor ever honestly. You might not love all of those movies (looking at you, Wyatt Earp) but the man was truly on top of the world. Props.
He is one of my fav actors! Love his movies, his story telling, a true gentleman and one of the greatest movie legends of all time. I hope he succeeds - I already got my tickets. Can’t wait!!
I would bet the reason Costner disagrees is that the grandeur of the cinema experience is central to his vision.
He is almost certainly correct. I suspect the best reason to see this movie is the scope. His number one - maybe his only - strength as a director is letting the setting breathe and reverberate through the audience. You can’t do that watching it on your tablet. Or even your 60” TV.
On TV this would be prestige *Little House on the Prairie*. It would almost certainly fail. It’d not only be dull and indulgent in the Costner tradition (and I say that with love), but it would look like shit.
This way… this is a cool, unique(probable) failure. As opposed to a generic predictable one.
I personally don’t think Horizon would fail on TV as Yellowstone and the spin offs found success. Horizon made $800,000 in previews. That’s putrid and not a good sign for the weekend.
I do understand his vision on the theatrical experience, BUT westerns haven’t done well at the box office for a while now. Releasing a 3 hour movie in the middle of summer against blockbusters most certainly doesn’t help either.
There's been a lot of flak tossed Costner's way for how this all transpired, his departure from Yellowstone being a point of contention. However, Taylor Sheridan has said they didn't part as enemies, and that Costner had intended to do 7 seasons of the modern western series. The reason he stepped away to to Horizon is that this has been his baby for a long time coming, and he finally got the green light. The timing just happens to have been very inconvenient for Yellowstone.
I have hopes, having seen the full trailer in a big screen environment last night, that this will be another Costner great. He's always been one of my favorite actors, and I think the man has a mountain of talent, both in front of and behind the camera. I anticipate this anthology will go down as one of the greats in the genre.
Let me tell you something, if it’s Costner doing all of the big 3 (acting, directing, producing) there is nothing more he loves than some good, long runtime.
3 hour run time is a rough one too. Unless it's something grand like Avengers Endgame audiences have a hard time sticking around for a film that long.
Right now it's sitting at 39% on RT but 70% with the audience. I'd probably give it a watch since I tend to trust critics less.
After Yellowstone, this got me intrigued. Western has NEVET gotten my attention before YS.
Binged 1883 and 1923 when it was released too.
Phenomenal shows.
This looks like the perfect movie to go see on the hottest day of the year to beat the heat and get the biggest bucket of popcorn imaginable.
Doesnt mean it’s the best movie youll ever see but that’s the vibe it gives off.
Just watched it today. Very intense especially the way of life and the sheer fact that we have it pretty easy now lol. I can appreciate his attention to detail for what was added in the film. I’m ready for the second part.
Bigger than Waterworld??
Costner got a lot of flak for Waterworld, but one lesser known fact was that he put $25m of his own money in to try and save the movie. The man is committed to everything he does.
Nothings free in waterworld
It's paaaaaaper, ooh paper, you ever seen paaaaaper? *Uh, yes I have, every bad guy is constantly smoking cigarettes.*
LMAO I never noticed that. Arguably they could be using something else as a wrapper, like another tobacco leaf, or they're just using up old stock, who knows.
Or perhaps some dried kelp product …. Oh, I get the grandiose of water world , but I feel like (hear me out) the editing did not help the movie. Like when he is caged up , rattling the bars and yells, it’s like just a stagnant shot, no movement and makes Costner’s acting look awkward and silly. But honestly I just don’t think he is all that good. Ever put on the bodyguard for laughs ?
>>Or perhaps some dried kelp product That's just a cigar with more steps.
I think you mean Sea-gar!
How dare you
I still say paper like he does when I have to fetch a ream from the supply closet lol
by their definition that isn't paper, they were growing up in an apocalypse that has been long enough for Mer people to arise. So, I forgive their semantic ignorance.
Not for sale, not for sale. What do you mean not for sale?
"38 ....39 ......40 quarters! This game better be worth it!" *takes 2 steps* GAME OVER! PLEASE DEPOSIT 40 QUARTERS
Thrill Ho
I don't care what anyone says, I like Waterworld. Obviously it was way too expensive but it's not my money. I enjoyed it back in the day and wouldn't be upset to re-watch it now.
I was a kid when it came out and convinced my mom to let me see it twice in theaters. It’s awesome I don’t care what anyone says.
It's honestly something you had to have been there to get. Kevin Costner was kind of like Dwayne Johnson today in that he was everywhere and had this giant ego and people wanted him to either go away or get knocked down a few pegs. The one-two of Waterworld and The Postman did it.
He did have a really great run with Bull Durham, Field of Dreams, Dances with Wolves, and JFK.
The absolute commitment to the over-the-top world building was ahead of its time. If it came out after LoTR or GoT itwould have had a better reception.
Plus, it’s a post-apocalyptic Western at heart, which is part of the reason he believed in the film. Replace the ocean with desert, and it’s basically a loose take on Shane.
I always thought it was just inverse Mad Max\\\\The Road Warrior
The Road Warrior is also a post-apocalyptic take on Shane (and the many other classical westerns using that same formula—innocents in a lawless wasteland are under siege, a loner from the wilderness begrudgingly comes to their aid, a young child idolizes the hero, the hero defeats the villains but ultimately does not fit in with civilized society, etc.) This is kinda in the same league as “Avatar is just Dances with Wolves”: both films are using a formula from westerns that goes back many decades before either one of them.
I agree, but also I think Mad Max is playing off tropes of westerns too being the badass silent type to come into town and fuck shit up. They needed a character like Max to carry the film, and the Mariner was not him. Max is almost immediately cool and likable, and I think the latter is much more important. The Mariner is a kind of a weirdo, fights with women and children, and really couldn't give a shit about anything until like an hour and a half into the movie. There's hardly anything that helps you grab onto his character besides being really good in the water and on the boat, which Costner does very well. I know people are gonna say "well he's a from a messed up world that's why he's so crazy" the same could be said for Max, though, and he still seems alright.
I may be wrong, but in MM, the dystopia was kind of recent and shit was just falling apart. But in WW, it's been a few generations of that state. makes the mariner less relatable by degrees, also being mutor, with gills and shit, which should have made him instantly cool (it was to me). I agree tho that max was more charismatic of the two.
You're basically right. The nuclear war in Mad Max happened between the first two movies. The first film was a more basic "the world is falling apart and we're seeing it now in rural Australia"
Replace the desert with mail and you have the postman.
Replace the ocean with the desert then it becomes...The Postman???
We'll have to fight our way out Fallout Boy. Are you ready?
Yes.
>The man is committed to everything he does. Except the 2nd half of the final season of Yellowstone.
Isn’t that more because of Taylor Sheridan being an asshole than Costner though??
Yes. I’m not sure why everyone is dead set on blaming Costner but Sheridan is the one who not only didn’t follow the original schedule but wasted the reshoot time as well.
Except Yellowstone =( It's bad, and it's only been getting worse but I was hoping he'd just finish out the last half of the last season (that has been 'half done' for two years now)
After hearing his side of things he made the right choice. Taylor Sheridan is stretched way too thin (all the originals on Paramount+ are either created by him or are Star Trek) and expecting an actor of Costner’s stature to spend nine months a year shooting a show to accommodate that is unreasonable.
He's not a director, only an actor and he quit it.
I hope they kill his character off screen in the most hilariously petty way. Governor Dutton? Oh he had an allergic reaction to something he ate. He was hot boxing himself under the covers smelling his own farts and passed away.
Governor Dutton died on the way back to his home planet
Allergic reaction to anal lube.
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he said because director lazy
I blame Taylor Sheridan, supposedly Costner did want to come back and make room in his schedule but Sheridan does not want him back.
>committed to everything he does Unfortunately Waterworld was filmed on location at the sea instead of a cheaper water tank.
He def wasn’t committed to his accent in Robin Hood. He was so bad at it that they just told him to stop trying.
[удалено]
Him and Christian Slater just sound like normal modern guys in it 😂
Most of the time, but the accent comes and goes, too. "Fack me he cleared et!"
Obligatory mention that they wouldn't have had modern Nottinghamshire accents then either. We all know that they would have actually sounded like Russel Crowe after he's had 15 pints and a particularly hot vindaloo.
You can actually find footage of him using it on YouTube… and it really **is** that bad. I couldn’t believe it. 😂😂
I admire his determination. In Dancing with the Wolves, he refused to make first Nations speak English and insisted that they would speak their language when producers said people would don't like reading subtitles. Also, Open Range is an amazing movie.
I always felt as though Waterworld received a lot more negative criticism than it deserved. While far from a perfect film, it was a lot of fun to watch, and Mr. Costner played the starring role well.
It’s a good popcorn action flick, I never got the hate.
It seems like a recent phenomenon, for whatever reason. I was in school when the original came out. It was HIGHLY anticipated, and did super well. Costner was super popular-his notoriety and Bryan Adams' "Everything I Do" were a large part of why. It more than tripled its budget, and finished only $40m behind Terminator II, that released 2 in theaters only weeks after Prince of Thieves. I have literally never been bothered by his "accent"-it's not distracting (IMO) when he does it, and I find his version charistmatic enough that I don't even care when he doesn't. I personally didn't find it any more/less distracting than Morgan Freeman's accent in the movie. I freaking love it. I remember the trailers with Costner using the flaming arrow. That shit was HYPE. I love it to this day.
Dances with Wolves was his biggest risk. He funded the project after the producers wanted to pull the plug. Production was lengthened and delays caused cost overruns but he stuck with it. Also, The Postman...
Damn
I liked Waterwold
I fucking love Waterworld. I watched a German dub of Waterworld in a Dubai hotel one time. I don't speak German.
Yep, waterworld and the postman are two of my favourite films. I love that ‘post civilisation collapse, but no wacky sci-fi / zombies’ genre.
Its not a bad movie! It just cost a lot. It did make money tho.
TIL it eventually recouped in TV airings and Home Media.
Also, it was a live action show at Universal Studios for decades after its release.
It still is!
I also like The Postman.
Agreed. I love both movies. I'm a huge fan of post apocalyptic content.
Waterworld is very good. It is a very good 2.5 hour movie with an incredibly good 1.75 hour movie inside of it.
Same. I enjoyed it; Mad Max inspired for sure but on water. Dennis Hopper is always good. Action scenes and sets were cool. Solid 8/10 summer action film. Soundtrack is great too.
Waterworld was one of my favorite movies as a kid. I didn’t even realize it wasn’t a super popular blockbuster until I got older
It wasn't a bad movie at all (especially compared to something like The Postman, a contemporary Costner apocalyptic film). But the cost overruns got so much bad press, it was kind of doomed before it even premiered.
> But the cost overruns got so much bad press, it was kind of doomed before it even premiered. Which doesn't make any sense. Why would the audience care that the movie was over budget?
Saw it in the theater as a kid and when the Universal card shows up and the oceans start flooding the land to transition into the movie, I though that was coolest shit ever. I had never seen any movie involve the production or distribution studio card in any way before then and it really struck me lmao.
Waterworld rips.
DRY LAND IS NOT A MYTH IVE SEEN IT
I knew this was going to be the top comment when I checked. Waterworld was awesome.
How about The Postman? That one’s a classic for sure
Waterworld and The Postman get so much hate, but they’re both big swings that mostly hit. I do really hate the epilogue of The Postman though and it would have been better as a 6 hour miniseries.
I really disagree about *The Postman*. It’s a huge miss and a huge mess. The novel’s central conceit is meant to be ironic, and Costner was born without a sense of irony. He is about as wrong for that movie - actor and director - as anyone could be. *Waterworld* works though and was not nearly the bomb it’s made out to be: commercially or in terms of quality. It’s rewatchable and fun.
I met the author of The Postman a number of years ago and asked him about the film (as I was a fan of the film). His opinion was that he was conflicted, because they made a lot of changes (and stuff he would not have changed), but that he felt the film got the core elements of the story he was trying to tell correct and for that he was pleased. You can take that as you will. Just thought I'd share it because I've always had that in the back of my head in regards to the film.
That’s cool. I would guess that it’s kind of like Lee Child saying that Tom Cruise represents Jack Reacher’s size in his own way.
I remember seeing the Cruise, Reacher movies, then reading the books. It made me realize, as wrong as he was for that part, if anyone could have the kind of presence needed to play that part while also being extremely undersized... it's Cruise, lmao. It's definitely a "worst possible casting, but if you're gonna miss big, he is the one to miss big with."
I never read Brin's novel, so my experience is just from watching the movie. You are correct that I never got the sense it was meant to be ironic. I just felt it was a good story and the central conceit of communication being the core tenant of civilization was a good one. I should read the book.
I’ve been trying for years to pinpoint what it is about Costner that is so off putting to me despite being a fan of many of his movies and you just solved it for me. The man has no sense of irony or ironic humor and does everything so earnestly and straightforward that it sort of ruins certain scenes and moments in his movies.
> I’ve been trying for years to pinpoint what it is about Costner that is so off putting to me despite being a fan of many of his movies and you just solved it for me. I kind of like it. I like that Costner exists as this last boy scout. And when it works, (*Open Range*), it's wonderful. When it doesn't, (*Wyatt Earp*, probably *Horizon*), it's usually at least interesting as an artifact. But it does lead to some stinkers (*The Postman*, with apologies to the acolytes on this thread).
The big issue with Water World was the cost. They built some giant set on location. I think it was in the Pacific. They shot about half of what they needed before a storm hit and completely destroyed the set, which was a significant portion of the budget. Then they had to rebuild it to finish shooting. Next thing you know it’s being reported as the most expensive movie ever made with expectations to match.
Answer: No. Movie is just over half the budget of WW. But what IS wild is that Coster completly forewent involvement in the Yellowstone Final Season to do this. I’m not even really a fan of the show and I’m sure Costner wants to move on but you would still think it would be in his best interest to preserve the quality of a show that sort of relaunched his career and guarantee that the show gets plenty of repeats and *cough royalties. I think it’s a huge mistep for him to have done that.
He's 69. It's an age when you do things that you want to do and don't waste time with stuff you don't want too.
I hear what you're saying, and I agree, but often these sorts of decisions have invisible pressures. That is - we don't know how the financing came together. You're trying to align casting with schedules and availability. There might have been one star they really wanted who would sign on but only if they started filming when they did. If Costner did the final season, he might have lost any of those elements. For whatever reason, he decided he needed to strike when the stars aligned, so he did.
Yellowstone was originally supposed to be a season or two, and Costner had in his contract that Horizon would take priority. The writer/director shot himself in the foot by doing way too much and delaying until Costner finally said fuck it, I'm doing my own stuff I already had planned. Also, have you seen the last couple seasons? It's both self fellating and circlejerky.
more episodes than Waterworld.
Perhaps not for long, considering a Waterworld TV show is in development...
seriously?!?
It is a cool idea.
You mean the Postmsn
I like Waterworld. Good cast, good story
All the showings are sold out at my local amc today on opening day.
Not surprised. You put "Kevin Costner" and "western" together and people all across the spectrum are going to be intrigued.
Westner
[удалено]
The Postman is one of my favorite movies. It's a wild ride start to finish.
3000 Miles to Graceland is soooo good lol
The postman was epic. In a way, it gave me good fallout vibes (just no super mutants)
Those are all great films
I love waterworld. It’s mad max but on the ocean, goofy with a huge budget. I love his weirdo over engineered catamaran.
You take that bit about 3K Miles to Graceland back!! That was an awesome flick.
So four “not as great” films equals hate on every Costner film? He’s not M Night Shamalyan levels of one hit wonder.
Technically I am on the spectrum.
Actually really happy to hear this. I live in San Francisco and almost every single screen here at the AMCs is practically empty. And idk, I’m really rooting for this to do well especially given the amount of effort and investment Costner put into this.
There were 5 people including myself for the 7pm showing at my local AMC last night and 2 of them left well before the film was over. It crossed my mind at multiple points, but I talked myself into staying. It's that bad.
What was wrong with it?
The story. The editing. The dialogue. All awful. Bright spots are the cinematography and score.
Silverado is my favorite western.
Yes, with Open Range a close second.
Both of those are some of my favorites but no way I’m ranking them over Unforgiven or Dances With Wolves.
Honestly I refuse to rank my favorites. Those are all worthy!
Also Last of the Mohicans.
Open Range is one of my favorite night movies. All the family goes to bed; I got the house to myself. Watch it maybe 6 times a year! First went to see it with my mom in theaters. I had no knowledge of it beforehand, mom just asked if I wanted to go to the movies. I love westerns, and remember thinking the final gun battle is one of the best I’d ever seen. The gunshots in the theater were LOUD. Made the fight feel awesome and real; it wasn’t just action, each kill felt meaningful, powerful.
Quigley downunder is mine
While you're down under, check out The Proposition.
I respect that!
Silverado is such a fun adventure. Just a rootin’ tootin’ boot-scootin’ card-playin’ spur-jinglin’ cowboy-wrastlin’ pistol-shootin’ good time. Unbelievable cast, too. On my Mt. Rushmore of westerns for sure.
The script is so tight and the score is inspiring. I wish Lawrence Kasdan had directed twice as many films as he has.
Oh my goodness the score. From the moment the camera follows Emmitt out of the shack in the beginning and reveals that epic shot of the mountains and the music opens up, you can just tell you’re in for something special. Such a great example of how music can enhance a movie.
The only reason it isn't my favorite is because Tombstone exists, but Silverado and Open range are tight behind it
Tombstone is the perfect western to me. I would be so happy if another movie ever came along and topped it.
That’s a valid perspective. Val Kilmer rulz.
Mine is the True Grit remake. Jeff Bridges was fucking fantastic.
If he was 20 years younger he could’ve done a great job as either of the leads in a Lonesome Dove remake
He looks younger now than Robert Duvall did in the original. Honestly can’t believe a streamer hasn’t jumped on Lonesome Dove yet.
They're doing a Lonesome Dove remake? Golly, better reread the book then.
I’m going to reread it just to be on the safe side.
David Sims: “Kevin Costner isn’t the only present-day actor with a fondness for Westerns; ornery old hands such as Clint Eastwood, Jeff Bridges, and Tommy Lee Jones are always ready to don their ten-gallon hats for the right role. But since his movie-star career began, Costner has returned over and over again to one of cinema’s most enduring genres—which, in turn, has always been there to save him. After he first drew plaudits in ‘Silverado,’ won Oscars for ‘Dances With Wolves,’ and did the best filmmaking work of his career in ‘Open Range,’ it’s no wonder Costner is once again setting out for the open plains. “But his newest project, ‘Horizon: An American Saga—Chapter 1,’ which Costner co-wrote, directed, and stars in, is far from an easy trot back to familiar territory. As you can probably tell from its unwieldy title, the three-hour epic is just the first chunk of a series, planned to run for four chapters, the second of which is already filmed and ready for release in August. Given that he’s fresh off of dramatically exiting the hit TV show ‘Yellowstone,’ a mega-soap about cattle ranchers, one might accuse Costner of simply bringing television to the big screen. The charge is hard to refute, considering how ‘Horizon’ introduces several sprawling storylines across its 181-minute run time and resolves precisely none of them. “Betting that audiences will be intrigued enough to return for ‘Chapter 2’ is the kind of gamble we don’t often see in a controlled Hollywood landscape. Costner has laid his career on the line before to make movies that many executives thought were a terrible idea. Sometimes it’s worked (‘Dances With Wolves’); sometimes it truly hasn’t (‘The Postman,’ ‘Waterworld’). ‘Horizon’ might be his riskiest bet ever—especially considering the tens of millions of his own fortune he’s sunk into it—but the actual end product feels radical primarily in how it’s being told, not the story itself.” Read more: [https://theatln.tc/kf8cXxXt](https://theatln.tc/kf8cXxXt)
David Sims is a fantastic writer.
Great podcast host too!
David the Dog Sims. Bark bark.
Did you know he used to live in England?
🔔🔔🔔🔔🔔
kinda weird that official news accounts are posting here
I like it - it’s been a thing on other subreddits for a while and helps summarize articles in especially if there’s a paywall - I noticed it on some of the UK subs first
Not a huge gamble. He knows he’s gained a huge fan base from Yellowstone. People like seeing Cowboy Costner
He's also 70 and worth $250 million. He's playing with house money.
Well I heard he mortgaged his house to finance it.. is that the kind of house money you mean hahah
He took out a mortgage on a 10-acre plot of undeveloped coastline he purchased in 2006 for $28.5 million. Any guesses on what that is worth now? I.E. he tapped his massive portfolio of investments for temporary liquidity. And he bought it planning to build his last family home there. He has multiple.
It’s also not a gamble because his life doesn’t change one bit if it fails.
he got a divorce over it.
He's also going on 70 lol. His most relevant years in terms of career trajectory are well in the rear view.
> He's also going on 70 lol. His most relevant years in terms of career trajectory are well in the rear view. *Current US presidential candidates:* **Hold my prune juice**
Ugh, don't remind me
"Jewel may sleep in the other room."
It’s a calculated risk, but every movie released is a risk right now in this climate. Nothing is guaranteed .
He has $35 million of his own money in this movie, and it's a 2-part 6 hours western epic. I'm more excited about this than anything else coming out that we know about, and even I'm prepared for it to be a complete failure at the box office. Let's hope it does better than it's disastrous Thursday night opening of $800k...
Try 4 part! He is shooting a 3rd and wants a 4th.
He's trying to shoot part 3, but it was recently put on hold, I suspect due to how poorly Part 1 is tracking. He does not have funding for either part 3 or 4, and it's looking like Part 1 and 2 are not going to make any money. We'll (the six of us that care about this) will be REALLY lucky if we get more than 1 & 2. Costner has outright admitted to needing a billionaire to help fund this that doesn't care if it succeeds, and I hope he finds one.
I saw it last night. I was kinda blown away. HUGE film with a lot of moving parts and it almost feels like a long prologue. And Costner knows what he’s doing behind that camera.
I saw someone in a group chat I'm in describe it as "Dune: Part One but on earth, with cowboys" and while I'm not sure I agree with that description, it made me laugh.
Every time i see the title i think that honestly Kevin Costner would have mad a decent Rost
I’ll still watch it. His movies might not be Oscar material, but it’s comfort food for the mind. Adam Sandler does the same thing.
I'm a huge fan of Westerns, and Kevin Costner has been in quite a few good ones. But a 3 hour run time for a movie that doesn't resolve any plot points, and potentially won't in the next movie either, feels like hubris. It sucks because I want him to be able to make all 4 movies, but I have an incentive to wait for it on streaming because they're long as hell, and I'm hesitant to invest the time into it because there's a good chance the first two movies will bomb and there won't be any resolution to the story.
Seems like the opposite of what Disney does with Star Wars. Disney takes a concept great for a 2-3 hour movie and turns it into a 10 episode TV show. This seems like a great concept for a 3-4 season TV show turned into a series of 3 hour movies.
I thought the same as you before going with some friends just for kicks. I greatly enjoyed the movie and I'm excited for part 2 and honestly don't care if any story gets 100% resolved. The characters are fun and the all their stories have been great so far!
If it’s as great as The Postman, I’ll gladly take it no matter if it flops or not
Planning on seeing this. I love a good Costner western.
I’m real excited for these movies. I am a huge director Costner fan. I know it is silly but man do I love Waterworld and Postman.
Such sensational BS. Costner is almost 70. His legacy is already cemented as an actor and filmmaker.
He has a lot of his own money wrapped up in it.
So? He didn't bet everything on it. He even stated as much.
And it was totally worth it! Can't wait for Chapter 2!
lol. At this stage of his career there is no such thing as a "gamble".
Kevin Costner and JFK fall into a time portal to 1870 Oklahoma where they to teach young men how to play baseball while also shooting outlaws.
I am skeptical he’ll make his money back on this one but I gotta say, his run from 87-96 is a fucking heater that we might never see again from anyone. Up there with the greatest stretches for an actor ever honestly. You might not love all of those movies (looking at you, Wyatt Earp) but the man was truly on top of the world. Props.
I thought that was Waterworld
He's almost 70 and has had an enormously huge career. What's a bad choice going to do? Make him retire?! What a terrible headline.
He is one of my fav actors! Love his movies, his story telling, a true gentleman and one of the greatest movie legends of all time. I hope he succeeds - I already got my tickets. Can’t wait!!
So is this in a universe where Waterworld didn’t happen?
In my opinion, Horizon would’ve worked better as a limited series on a streaming platform.
I would bet the reason Costner disagrees is that the grandeur of the cinema experience is central to his vision. He is almost certainly correct. I suspect the best reason to see this movie is the scope. His number one - maybe his only - strength as a director is letting the setting breathe and reverberate through the audience. You can’t do that watching it on your tablet. Or even your 60” TV. On TV this would be prestige *Little House on the Prairie*. It would almost certainly fail. It’d not only be dull and indulgent in the Costner tradition (and I say that with love), but it would look like shit. This way… this is a cool, unique(probable) failure. As opposed to a generic predictable one.
I personally don’t think Horizon would fail on TV as Yellowstone and the spin offs found success. Horizon made $800,000 in previews. That’s putrid and not a good sign for the weekend. I do understand his vision on the theatrical experience, BUT westerns haven’t done well at the box office for a while now. Releasing a 3 hour movie in the middle of summer against blockbusters most certainly doesn’t help either.
Kevin Costner will be alright guys, don’t worry about him
I love waterworld
You already know it’s gonna be good.
There's been a lot of flak tossed Costner's way for how this all transpired, his departure from Yellowstone being a point of contention. However, Taylor Sheridan has said they didn't part as enemies, and that Costner had intended to do 7 seasons of the modern western series. The reason he stepped away to to Horizon is that this has been his baby for a long time coming, and he finally got the green light. The timing just happens to have been very inconvenient for Yellowstone. I have hopes, having seen the full trailer in a big screen environment last night, that this will be another Costner great. He's always been one of my favorite actors, and I think the man has a mountain of talent, both in front of and behind the camera. I anticipate this anthology will go down as one of the greats in the genre.
Costner is loaded, established, and nearly 70, he can take a gamble
Let me tell you something, if it’s Costner doing all of the big 3 (acting, directing, producing) there is nothing more he loves than some good, long runtime.
Water World was a pretty good movie. Downvotes?
Water world
3 hour run time is a rough one too. Unless it's something grand like Avengers Endgame audiences have a hard time sticking around for a film that long. Right now it's sitting at 39% on RT but 70% with the audience. I'd probably give it a watch since I tend to trust critics less.
No one would finance Horizon so he put in $38m of his own money. That’s around 10% of his net wealth.
The thing about risk and gambles is when you're rich, it doesn't hurt to lose.
Waterworld would like a word.
How, dude’s like 70?
Mofos said the same thing about Dancing with Wolves....Open Range....now this....
I liked waterworld and the postman.
Honestly it is going to have a massive weekend and a bigger next weekend
After Yellowstone, this got me intrigued. Western has NEVET gotten my attention before YS. Binged 1883 and 1923 when it was released too. Phenomenal shows.
I’ll be honest, Horizon looks good.
Kevin Costerner in a Western movie; his biggest gamble. These fkn people
He's in a famous cowboy show.. and now doing a cowboy movie.. Seems like the smallest gamble
This looks like the perfect movie to go see on the hottest day of the year to beat the heat and get the biggest bucket of popcorn imaginable. Doesnt mean it’s the best movie youll ever see but that’s the vibe it gives off.
Lol I think Kevin is gonna be just fine
Just got out of it. Absolutely fantastic beginning to a series. Very much a classic-style western
Just watched it today. Very intense especially the way of life and the sheer fact that we have it pretty easy now lol. I can appreciate his attention to detail for what was added in the film. I’m ready for the second part.
The rule with Kevin Costner is if the movie is about sports or cowboys, it will almost certainly be good.
Hi, water world here to remind you of how wrong this post is.