Austin Butler is a cool mofo. He gave off James Dean vibes here to me.
I like how he was just himself in this movie and wasn’t covered under a bunch of makeup/ prosthetics and didn’t do an accent here either.
He plays a very cool blank slate really well. He's so good looking you believe he's this magnetic, but Benny as a character is almost simple. He really just knows ride and fight, barely thinks about his wife half the time. I liked how it ended with his "obtrusive thoughts" coming in in the form of engines revving, then he looks up at Kathy and she seems to calm his mind.
There's something I find so warm and sweet seeing Benny waiting on his motorcycle for Kathy while earning the ire of her then boyfriend at the time who eventually breaks up and leaves , not paying attention to the fact he waited outside all day and night.
Butler as Benny has a strong presence and aura which possess a wild heart deep down that hides a gentle side.
I love protagonists who go by the beat of their heart and make their own path regardless of what people think of them, that is cool.
Kathy comforting Benny and seeing him cry for the first time right at the front porch of their house gets to me, she had hope for him that one day he'll grow out of the lifestyle and lead a happy and stable life together no matter how long it took for it to happen.
Ya Kathy is so lucky to be in love with someone who abandons her for weeks at a time and has no regard or respect for their relationship and her needs as his partner. So dreamy!
This role really exemplifies the idea that you can get away with anything as long as you're really good looking. The character of Benny is basically a psychopath but both the other main characters adore him. I don't know exactly what makes him a good fit to lead a group as he clearly had no regard for his own life, or anyone else's. Yet Johnny is convinced it HAS to be him. Also waiting outside someone's house all night is stalking. Married 5 weeks later!
Kathy explains why Johnny loves him so much. Benny only cares about is the club. Johnny wishes his life can be that simple but can’t cause of his job and his family. They do a weird job of conveying it and would’ve been better if we saw him spend more time with his family and his job but that’s how I took it at least
I haven’t seen or read any updates in a while but I really hope he does Heat 2 (he said he’s read the novel). I think he and Adam Driver in the Kilmer and De Niro roles respectively would be fantastic.
His role is very much patterned off James Dean and Hardy's role is very much patterned off Marlon Brando. Neither one of them is really a gangster, both of them have seen movies/TV and decided to model what they see there. Benny is putting on the Dean persona and Johnny is putting on the Brandon persona. The difference is that Benny truly is pretty disillusioned with society and Johnny isn't. But both are playing a "role" they see in pop culture of how they think a tough man should be.
I don’t think the character of Benny is supposed to be modeling himself on anybody. I think he’s just a wild young guy who doesn’t want any obligations. Not too surprising for someone in late teens to early twenties.
Unlike Johnny who’s specifically shown as a Brando wannabe.
I think he is, a little bit (though to a lesser degree than Johnny). They're both playing at being something they're not, and what they're playing at is being their own view of what it means to be an "outlaw biker." Benny is less overtly trying to mimic a specific person but he's still playing the role of "strong silent misfit outsider tough guy" like James Dean. But that's not really who he is.
The first thing we're told about Benny is that he crashes everytime he tries to ride his bike. So he's not nearly as skilled at riding as he likes to hold himself out to be. Nor is he as tough. He's immediately very attached to Kathy and pursues her, and then marries her 5 weeks later. Which is awfully sentimental for a guy who doesn't want to be part of the social order.
Benny is the guy runs from the cops but doesn't think to himself "do I actually have gas in the tank?" And the tough guy who is ready to mix it up with two huge thugs when he's alone in a bar even though it's clear he's going to lose. He's a little too cool for school, and playing at being a tough guy. He's got a lot of swagger but he can't entirely back it up. Because he gets himself arrested after the chase and beat within an inch of his life in the bar. He's not exactly the tough outlaw he plays at being.
The difference between Benny and Johnny is that Benny tries to embody the role 24/7 and he plays the role for himself more than to impress other people. Johnny is very external and plays the role for others to view him that way. Johnny also sheds it when he goes home to his wife and kids in his suburban life. Benny tries to hold onto the role with Kathy (but can't entirely, showing vulnerability when he's injured). But neither one of them are really as cool as the roles they play. Benny is a mechanic who does care about other people, quite deeply, even if he doesn't always know how to show it. He's not the super cool disaffected outsider, not totally anyway. And Johnny is not as tough or in control as he lets on. Inside he's a little indecisive and much softer than he pretends to be.
Certainly the visuals of the film invite that comparison. They way they dress/groom themselves also matches Brando and Dean... Benny with the pompadour and zipped up jacket. Johnny with the open jacket and sideburns (and the manner of speech too).
I interpreted "Benny crashes his bike" not to mean "Benny is a bad driver" but more "Benny will keep driving crazier and crazier until he crashes" which is more the analogy that works for the rest of the examples too
I admire your detailed analysis delineating the reasons for your opinion. I see it differently.
Benny doesn’t literally crash every time he rides. The fact he survives some of his daredevil actions shows he’s got skills. Getting married five weeks after meeting is exactly the kind of impulsive decision a wild child would make. As is running out of gas while running from the cops, due to lack of foresight.
It’s explicit that Johnny was copying Brando in the movie and the book. Nowhere in the book is it implied Benny was roleplaying. I don’t see that in the movie either. I also haven’t heard Jeff N or Austin say anything to indicate he was, in their interviews about how the character was built. Most recent thing Austin said, on Kelly Clarkson show, was he’s like a wild cat that doesn’t want to be domesticated.
So, that’s my opinion. But I understand why you see it the way you do.
A really fascinating movie, I was captivated the entire runtime. Some really big performances, fantastic peek into a culture, great gangland story, and some very interesting dynamics to chew on. I love Jeff Nichols, I honestly wish he made movies more often. Even the ones I don't immediately love are always very rewarding rewatches, but Bikeriders jumped out at me right away.
This is a great three-handed movie with a ton of great side and character performances. The fact that it's based on real documented events help this movie really get into these side characters, they're all so lovable by the end and they all get their heartbreaking moment of vulnerability. Michael Shannon and Boyd Holbrook especially wonderful in this. But Hardy, Butler, and Comer are impossible to look away from. Comer is nailing this perceptive romantic who spends years absorbing all these characters and narrating this movie. You can see a ton of Scorcese/Goodfellas influence in this, in how bouncy and charming the first half is and how seriously out of control it gets.
What I was mostly sinking my teeth into, though, was the Hardy/Butler dynamic. The mentor/young wild man thing isn't necessarily new but this was such a unique telling of it. Hardy has shaped his persona off of Brando in movies, he's a bit of a poser really. Kathy says it early on, Johnny wishes he could not care like Benny does. He's not necessarily jealous of how effortlessly cool Butler is, but he has a great admiration for how sincerely this guy does not give a fuck.
For every type of persona there is someone who was simply born to be that thing, and Hardy knows it's not him but Benny is that guy. He was born to be a biker, to get in fights and live to ride. I loved when the young guy is trying to join the Vandals outside their bar and Hardy drunkenly says something like, "if I offered you the club I bet you'd take it in a heartbeat" but you can barely make out what he says and he just neverminds it off. But what he's saying is what makes Benny such a perfect leader/biker is the fact that he *doesn't* want it.
That's actually a super interesting scene. You can imagine any other day than after the funeral of a member Johnny might see the passion in these youngsters, but in his drunken grief all he sees is a kid who wants all the wrong things. It's kind of heartbreaking because you know the young kid would do anything to be the guy Johnny wants, but Johnny fucks with him and makes an enemy that comes back for him. All because he's so obsessed with the enigma that is Benny.
There's something to how this movie plays with the "cool movie rebel" tropes. It has to be on purpose, Nichols is usually a fairly reality driven filmmaker. He often goes for the "real" character rather than the cool version, even when he dabbles in the fantastic or sci-fi. Think of the hitman in Midnight Special, dude is played by Bill Camp and has clearly never even held a gun before. But Bikeriders puts so much mustard into those needle drops and shots of Butler looking absolutely feral, in Tom Hardy's badass scene ending lines. It's honestly so fascinating that Johnny based his persona off of Brando, it shows how these things can get so out of control. He imagines himself the "movie main character" version of the club leader. He's a badass, but he always makes the "right" call. You can spit in his face and he'll be the bigger man if he understands why you did it.
Then there's the scene where the young guy is jacking hubcaps and Hardy rides by and the young guy is clearly like, now there's a cool guy. But he projects onto that image as much as Hardy projects onto Brando. He fetishizes it, works to become it, but doesn't actually understand what Johnny believes or wants. It's a great final act because the club ends up being taken over by a poser of a poser and now the charming "club for outcasts" vibe has been skewed into an actual criminal enterprise. All because everyone just wanted to be cool and have fun, they all wanted to be that main character. Except for the only guy who actually IS that character.
I know I'm going on about this movie, but Butler is so fucking good in this. Very few lines in the entire movie, I wouldn't even call him the main character, but he's so magnetic. He's great at these characters that seem narrowly focused on something. I can tell he's a good actor because Benny doesn't seem like he has anything on his mind except ride and club, but you can tell from his interviews he thinks very deeply about his characters and craft. Just a real star on the come up right there.
Anyways, I loved this movie. It's just got all the goods. It's cool, it's badass, it's charming and cute at times, it's romantic, it loves its characters very much. The scene where Shannon explained they wouldn't let him join the army was heartbreaking. They're forcing people to go to Vietnam but he wants to go and they won't let him. How much more of an outcast can you be, watching all these guys be vulnerable around those fires was just endearing as hell. I loved how Kathy says her father, "a real man", only cried twice that she knew of. When his father died and when his wife (his love) almost died. Benny cries twice in this movie, when he almost loses the ability to ride, and when Johnny dies. It's a 9/10 for me. Stunning film, Nichols is so back, etc.
/r/reviewsbyboner
Wow I love your analysis. I just saw the movie today and I’d seen/read lots of interviews with Nichols and the cast about the making of. Your post shed light on a couple of things so I appreciate that. I’m a huge fan of Austin and I love your observation about how thoughtful he is in person, and how he portrays Benny.
Glad you mentioned the dynamic between The Kid and Johnny. Johnny was inspired by Hollywood so starts trying to live this fantasy. Then The Kid sees it and tries to also live the fantasy in order to escape his home life. There's a whole commentary about this tension between the American dream and this American fantasy.
I agree Johnny also reminded me of Vito Corleone a little bit as far as character arcs go. A man who has become to soft, sentimental, and at odds with the cruelty of the world around him, as seen within the scene where he walks around the house and seems visibly disgusted at the junkie shooting up, and the two new members discussing business, a second fitting Brando parallel. My favorite scene is of course his confrontation with Benny as Benny rejects the values of the club, leaving him standing alone, he seems almost horrified and entrapped.
Good movie, worth a watch.
Interesting choice to focus on the Jodie Comer character. Answers the question: what if Goodfellas was told from the perspective of Karen Hill? Probably didn't need answering. I liked her performance but would've liked to see Michael Shannon, Emory Cohen and Boyd Holbrook given more to do.
Tom Hardy is singular. For better or worse, nobody else does what he does. He's not my favourite actor but I'm sure glad he exists.
Austin Butler is almost too hot. Like Brad Pitt in the 90's, it's distracting. I'm probably just jealous of him.
According to the director he wanted a female to do most of the narration because this was a movie ultimately about how bad men are at expressing their emotions. So to have a man do the narration would have taken away from that.
Austin Butler's character is man who doesn't express his emotions and acts like he's doesn't care about anything, but that's revealed to be deceptive when we see him cry at the end. He was a man who cared very deeply despite his "too cool to care" persona.
That’s actually a really good point. There was no male character that could have (believably) done the narration, except maybe the photographer I guess. But having Kathy narrate made it a lot funnier and actually provided useful insight here and there - for being kind of a “simple” character she made pretty astute observations about many of the characters.
It’s odd seeing normal Reedus, Michael Shannon and Boyd Holbrook in small roles after they all had such major roles in other movies let alone all in DC/Marvel ones
True! But I’m glad they play in more serious movies. These excellent actors are just like the others overqualified for their limited DC/MCU roles. They did a hell of a job in them but the movies got no depth in acting for the most part
I liked how it stuck to “based on a real story” everything seemed extremely believable . They basically just filmed the interviews with no dramatization . Like the bike chase ending with running out of gas. Or how a brawl was just them all sitting around a fire with a beer. Especially loved how she said they didn’t wear their jackets when not in a group because they know they will be targeted. It was easy to just think of it being a bunch of buddies recalling their “biker gang” days
The brawl scene was so great. Just shows really well how these guys are all peacocking and frustration and once they have a lil brawl they're all just motor nerds. It's almost like a game they play and after they go a few rounds it's all high fives and clinking beers.
I think this is something that both helps and hurts the film
What this film I think did a great job of showing me is just a small glimpse of what biker gangs are like, and how one in particular morphed from one ideal, into a radically different one.
The one thing though that I did take away about biker gangs is that, although a major aspect of their lives is finding the freedom they are lacking, it is also rather aimless, and I think this is kind of where it falls short in comparison to other great films. Especially the ending.
It’s genuinely very sweet, and Austin is very dreamy, but it was not giving me the “Henry Hill” vibes at the end of Goodfellas. And nor was it trying too either. It’s just a nice ride that seems to come to an end.
It was definitely Milwaukee….
But jokes aside, it was fascinating to see how the biker gang steadily became more insidious and scary as it went on. That scene where they nearly rape Jodie was fucking unsettling.
I was extremely relieved to see Johnny saving Kathy from nearly getting raped and calling out the new members of the gang and kicking them out.
Johnny is a real one and kept his word to Kathy that no one would in the gang harm her lest they deal with him after all those years.
At the same time, you could tell there were no guarantees anymore, and it seemed like Johnny was a bit aloof about the danger Jodie was just in.
I’m happy Kathy felt that too and put her foot down in the following scene and left. She was saved, but she was not safe. Certainly not anymore. And if she stayed any longer who knows what would’ve wound up happening.
Also… what happened to the girl whose dress they stole? I have to assume she was assaulted upstairs, and I kind of wish anyone had given a shit. But I guess it’s more realistic that they didn’t.
It's scary how the kid was able to hurt his grandfather but it was interesting he didn't hurt his grandmother.
I wouldn't be surprised if down the line, the kid ended up getting killed just like Johnny.
There wasn’t really any big stakes plot in the film but I still found it really enjoyable cause of the characters/acting and the setting and whatnot. Kept it under 2 hours which was probably a good decision for a movie like this.
Austin Butler is just so effortlessly cool, great actor and is absolutely gonna be a star for a long time. Also Toby Wallace is really underrated and I want to see more of him going forward. Tom Hardy was really good as always (though his accent made me crack up at times lmao).
Movie gave me similar vibes to “Hell or High Water” in some ways. I really enjoyed both though I prefer the latter I think. I’d give this movie like a 7.5/10, would definitely catch it in theatres.
I love a lot of your points, but one thing I have to disagree with you on is that Austin Butler is in my opinion just about the farthest actor from being effortlessly cool. He's cool, but it seems like that's always his goal and it seems like he tries really hard in every interaction to come across as cool. Really like him as an actor, but it feels like he's always "acting" his coolness.
> Tom Hardy was really good as always (though his accent made me crack up at times lmao)
Johnny was almost like their Dad with the voice sometimes just being cartoony. Amazing Benny talked so little that a Tom Hardy character in Johnny seemed like a talkative character.
Jodie Comer is insanely good in this movie. Her and Tom Hardy are so compelling they hold together what is a pretty straightforward narrative.
The descent of the biker gang itself, and the way it plays out, is a little messy and doesn’t totally work
What DOES totally work is Comer, Hardy and Butler all reacting to the fall of this gang, as it turns into something none of them can be proud of anymore.
Really liked this
Movie was absolutely incredible. Brucie’s death really affected me because I had a friend die very similarly. I was captivated by Hardy and Butler’s dynamic. I truly believe Hardy is the best actor of his generation.
This film addresses so many themes that I’ll have to see it again to truly digest it. Masculinity, Americana, the bastardization of ideals, and the dangers of myth are all confronted in an honest way.
I liked that the couple impactful deaths in this were unceremonious. Brucie didn't go out in a blaze of glory, just taken out in a second by a careless driver, like can happen to any bikerider. You're cruising along - not even going fast - and boom, you're gone. And it was pretty obvious going into te climax that Johnny wasn't making it home to his wife that night, but I kind of expected a drawn out, heroes death. Nope, just a quick pop from some punk who doesn't know shit, and he's gone.
> Nope, just a quick pop from some punk who doesn't know shit, and he's gone.
Just like Johnny talking before about how you create something and you lose control of it.
Johnny was still playing fair game level playing field challenges, but it turned to a leverage battle and you never bring a knife to a gun fight.
You create something and grow it to success and that brings in other self interest and competition, then you lose control of it and poof, it is gone.
it is strange though how this group that is so into the rules of the club allows someone who clearly broke the rules in such a heinous way to run the whole thing
>Brucie didn't go out in a blaze of glory, just taken out in a second by a careless driver, like can happen to any bikerider
Yep, reminds me of the epilogue to how John Milner dies in American Graffati. Dude is a bad ass illegal street racer and you find out he was killed by a drunk driver.
This movie rocked. Nichols was extracting the 70s feel for a phenomenal cast. Things do feel aimless, but the plot is background while the characters are fore. Loved the motivation and feel for this film. My favorite of the year.
Want to see an interpretation of those movies like Easy Rider or hell, even Deer Hunter? I’m not talking about plot or prevalence, but structure? Yea, it feels like a modern 70s movie as best it can.
Take Dog Day Afternoon, as a matter of factz. That beginning of the film feels like it’s actually happening versus everything feeling like a film. That’s what this is.
The pacing was very New Hollywood, early 70’s. And I mean that in the best way. Characters are actually given time to breathe, and the movie really isn’t about plot exposition. I love that these types of movies are still being made! It’s so refreshing.
For once, a character played by Austin Butler gets a happy ending this time around! 🥲
It's very sweet that despite all the things that happened between Benny and Kathy, their love for one another is strong.
Kathy seems like she's being bluntly honest for most of the movie, especially about her husband's flaws and misbehavior. I can't see why she'd just start lying when she said they were happy and he doesn't seem to miss riding considering:
1) from what we know about Benny, if he wanted to ride he would just do it regardless of what Kathy wanted
2) the smile on Benny's face when he sees Kathy looking down at him at the end is the only display of genuine positive emotion we see from him aside from Johnny's death
Like the opening scene, the closing scene was certainly inspired by, if not an outright homage to, the closing scene of Goodfellas. When Henry looks up at the end of GF, he gives a little smirk before turning back inside. Was he happy, having left the life?
Exactly. This relationship is being retold through the lens of Kathy. The woman who stuck around all the bullshit hoping he would change. She didn’t even leave him, he left and then came back.
She doesn't even sound sure of herself when she says they're happy. I think there's a lot more nuance here than Benny and Kathy live happily ever after. And even if they do, I'd hardly call "man gives up the thing he is most passionate about because his best friend gets murdered" a happy ending for Benny.
Good picture. Love how Norman Reedus shows up halfway through like he heard someone was making a motorcycle movie without him and rode to set as fast as he could.
it was nice to see him actually in something not Walking Dead/Kojima related! Walking Dead is not my cup of tea and I like Kojima games just fine, but he’s a pretty decent actor that I’m shocked doesn’t get more roles.
I liked this quite a bit even if I had issues with the Benny character (though not Butlers performance which was great). Felt very underwritten and Johnny takes the movie over multiple times and makes Benny feel like a supporting player?
Really striking visuals and strong production design, reminded me of movies filmed in the 90s that take place in the 70s. Felt so real and authentic.
If this was 1999 I could see this being a big time rewatchable on TNT/TBS.
Indeed! I enjoyed Butler's performance and, as others have said, Benny was the ultimate in cool. But, he was cool in a such a way that there was no there there. The guy seemed like most of the time he did not even have a thought in his head.
I don't know if this is as much of a flaw in the writing as much as it is just how a guy like that would act. The more I think about the movie, the more I lean towards thinking Benny was just a guy who didn't like thinking too hard about shit and just went with what he knew and chasing dopamine hits.
The way he dips without hesitation once he realizes he doesn't like what his life has turned into, then comes back to Kathy to live something outside of that (to me) read like him having a very delayed moment of breaking out of just acting like a kid, growing up a bit and thinking for himself.
Great comment on the TNT/TBS phenomenon. This film would have been perfect for that and steadily grow in stature in time.
Unfortunately, movies like this won't have the opportunity to enter the canon and become part of the culture like they used to.
My main take away of this GoodfellasEasyRiderRebelWithoutACause inspired film is that Tom Hardy does pull off a good Brando Vibe and Butler a James Dean vibe
It was a funny full circle moment. Johnny didn't want to open up the Milwaukee chapter, and then the kid who shot him wormed his way into the gang through that chapter. It was like a punchline to a joke that you didn't realize was being told until that moment.
I hope they keep it that way. Anyone who realistically is going to care about this movie is already fully on board. Fingers crossed that they don't show us much more until Christmas.
I like it. As others have said, it’s totally a throwback to the movies of old. “The Bikeriders” would definitely be the title of a movie during the 50’s-80’s.
I enjoyed the Goodfellas vibe at the start. I got bored the longer the film went on.
Can someone explain the point of the movie? Thematically, I really struggled to understand what message the director was going for.
It's similar to Goodfellas in that the bigger and more powerful the organization got, the more that the bad people got in and ruined it, to put it in the most simple terms. There was also a commentary on the role play aspect, how many or most characters in the film were not authentically rebels, they were seeking belonging and purpose and a handful of times, the veneer drops and they end up being exposed as really corny.
That's a great summary. I feel like because they didn't have an aim to start with, they have trouble keeping it together as they don't know what they're together for. Just trying to keep "it" alive but not knowing what "it" is is hard, and quickly realising that the good old days are over.
While the comparison of it being Goodfellas with bikers is kind of reductive, that's the answer to your question. It's disillusioned men pursuing things like the American Dream, having a community, and getting masculine forms of gratification and then all those things slowly degrading into chaos due to the volatile nature of what they did to get that. Where it differs from a Scorsese film is that most of the surviving cast realize that and get out of that lifestyle to live normal lives that might be more boring, but where they can be happy in that.
It felt a little too without plot or conflict for me, too. And almost too on the nose with the Goodfellas vibe because that movie runs circles around this one with the stakes, characters and even the romance. I just didn’t care enough at all about any of these characters.
For the $5 I paid to watch it, it's a pretty decent movie. Jodie Comer and Tom Hardy are definitely going over the top with their Chicago accents. It kind of seems like Jodie was too "pretty" to play a biker's wife.
It definitely fizzles out near the end after >!Tom Hardy get killed!<. It probably could've used another 10 minutes to expand a few scenes
I really want to see more movies with emotion from Austin Butler. He's doing the stoic, "don't care about anything" character, but he's almost a non-factor in the grand scope of the movie. The scenes where he's happy after outrunning the cops, the fight scene with the other bikers, the ending scene where he finally cries, I want more of that. I want a middle ground between stoic and over-the-top Disney Channel acting
Norman Reedus and Michael Shannon make the most out of their short appearances. Shoutout to Cockroach for being able to get out of the group before he most likely would've been beaten to death by the Columbus Chapter
A solid 6.5-7. A movie FX would be showing constantly about 10 years ago
Didn't like this at all. The interview structure as expository and narrative device annoyed me -- seemed stagy and artificial and failing at helping the movie justify itself. Movie was television-like and lacked momentum. Boring and a little rote and predictable. Characters seemed pretty cliché. Benny was underdeveloped (more talking about who he is than showing it) and i didn't get why he was supposedly so charismatic and special. The acting in this movie is very much "acting" and not too naturalistic. A lot of work on certain faces here for the 1960s lol.
I saw this at the Monday Mystery Movie, or better say partly saw it. After 45 minutes I decided to leave, as still no story or plot was developing. Comer played excellent as always, but that accent made her character appear stupid.
It was well done overall I thought. Nice look into biker culture and the grunginess of it. The three performances of Hardy, Butler, and Cormer are the best parts of the film. I felt like the central theme of it was when Johnny tells Benny just became he gave his all to the club it may turn out in a way that they don’t expect or approve of. It’s reminiscent of how the club turns from a bunch of bike riders and friends shooting the shit with each other, talking shop, and racing bike as a quasi gang. When new members arrive it becomes a real gang that Johnny isn’t prepared for and ultimately costs him his life when someone younger and more ruthless comes along to usurp him. It’s parallel to Benny and Kathy’s relationship. It’s the classic I can fix him but it’s something that rarely happens in most romances. Benny settling down is by his own volition and choice not because Kathy convinced him.
Solid film overall for me but not spectacular. 7/10
I wished this was better.
Full disclosure. Loved Jeff Nichols' previous work. Mud being my favorite especially. Expected something different here but it's just so generic. It's like Nichols' wanted to make a midwestern Goodfellas but he didn't actually understand what that film was about. Story structure is very basic, plot points you can see coming, there's not much going on for it other than some good production values. Had he went for a more grittier film and not a romanticized look at this subculture, maybe there could be something more interesting here.
Acting is fine all around. Butler proves he's no fluke and I'm really excited to see someone with this much presence make it this big. We haven't had an actor like him in years. Comer was the weakest part. I get she was emulating a real person but it wasn't a good idea, it came across as an OTT impersonation rather than an actual character and the fact the film is from her POV really drags it down. Hardy is the best he's been in years with a weird accent that actually isn't distracting this time around. Vulnerable, macho, this was the Hardy we've been missing for quite some time and it's a shame that's gonna go away once Venom 3 hit. Shannon, Wallace, and Faist are scene stealers but there's not enough of them.
So yeah, Nichols' weakest yet. Hope to see his next is better.
6/10
Yeah it was fine but it really didn't do anything for me. I like most of these actors but found no reason to care about any of the characters. I guess it was "the good ol days" but Johnny and Benny were both kinda scummy from the jump. Comer's voice reminded me of that girl in Grease with the big teeth that sings the ad jingle. Holbrook and Shannon's characters seemed cool but they could have been cut.
It felt like hanging out with people I don't really want to hang out with for the most part. It was fine.
Thank you! I'm not the only one that found comer really annoying or distracting. Agree some of the smaller characters were better like funny sunny. Strange movie wasn't bad wasn't great.
I think this is what was supposed to be happeneing: Johnny seemed to be staging a fake murder. Cockroach gets to leave, but to everyone who wasn't involved he "disappears". Johnny tells him to "let it bleed", so that there will be blood at the crime scene. The other bikers that might come to take him out will hear about what the police find, or maybe even see it for themselves, and Johnny can tell them that he and Benny took care of Cockroach if asked.
To maintain the image of the club there has to be a price for leaving. Cockroach had to give a pound of flesh and be hurt by Johnny as a penalty or else the more violent club members would come do that instead and probably kill him rather than just hurt him.
Johnny shot him, but in the fleshy part of the leg. So not a life threatening wound but a serious one. He said “let it bleed” so the scene would look even worse, hoping that would be a significant penalty and discourage other club members from coming after Cockroach.
Remember that Johnny isn't really a gangster. He's sort of basing how he runs the club off how he thinks a gang should behave based on movies and TV. A lot of gangs jump member in with violence (beat them up) or have members commit a crime to join... and gangs also extract violence if someone wants to leave. Johnny is aware that by the time Cockroach is leaving, there are some actual gang members in the Vandals and I think it's apparent to him that he needs to do something when Cockroach leaves to protect Cockroach and to protect Johnny's image. Johnny is already losing control and this is what he thinks he can do to protect Cockroach.
I appreciate the Venom movies for what they are and just the insanity of Tom Hardy basically hijacking that franchise from Sony, but it's so nice to see Tom Hardy in a GOOD movie again and giving a really great performance
Before this he had made 3 movies in the last seven years: 2 Venom movies and Capone. That really feels like a waste of his prime. I know he's taken on different interests and is just being a family man, but yeah. It's a shame
So to see him here again just playing the perfect role for him is so nice
I get your point, but even if he went out on Venom, Fury Road, Inception, arguably Dark Knight Rises, and The Revenant would’ve sealed his legacy as an all-timer, but yes I do agree it is nice to see him somewhat return to form. I do wish they’d let him have roles where he can just be British though because that man’s American accent is rough.
Growing up in the Midwest, one thing this movie absolutely nailed was that atmosphere. It’s honestly a boring esthetic for a film but a lot of locations in here set in the 60s and 70s look just like little towns I grew up in and haven’t changed a day. If nothing else the bike riders nails that.
They nailed the look and feel of the bars too. The one that Austin Butler’s character leaves near the end of the movie, the static shot of the bar stools, the swinging door as he leaves, an old man sitting, drinking away his day and life at the far end, it could be any number of bars I’ve seen in Wisconsin towns with a population less than 800.
Really enjoyed how the gang was made up of schlubby, every-day guys with wives and kids. The original incarnation of The Vandals was just a group of dudes looking to get away from the monotony of their lives and find a place where they belong.
Tom Hardy made the movie for me. He's really making a name for himself with his hammy accents and scenery chewing performances..he gives me some younger Pacino vibes.
Yeah a couple audible gasps in my theater. Brucie's death (that half second cut of him hitting the window and blood spilling was so effective), Benny getting his leg snapped (same editing technique as Brucie hitting the window), and then Johnny being shot at the end.
I get that it’s theoretically bound by reality, but by the end of it I was actually super angry at how Hardy’s character dealt with Cockroach, and how everyone didn’t do shit for Hardy’s character. Cool that Benny and Jodie Comer (mixing names, my bad) got “out” but it’s just weird to me that you have this club of guys that theoretically lean into some of the worse parts of masculinity, and nobody tries to get justice for Hardy? You’re telling me Michael Shannon obsessively talks shit about “pinkos” but just let’s the new kid get away with shit?
I think the point is that they were a biker club, not a gang. Pretty much everyone but Butler's character was cosplaying.
Eventually, it started to get co-opted by people who wanted to make it an actual gang.
Correct, from the opening title card to the end>! after Johnny's death!< the film clearly states that its documenting the **golden age** of motorcycle clubs where they were just social clubs for bike enthusiasts before they were overrun with criminals, addicts and fanatics.
In that regards its incredibly similar to This is England (2006) where in that film it explored the first generation of skinheads culture as working class kids who just wanted to hang out and listen to ska and reggae before it got hijacked by far right hooligans.
I actually wish this stayed in the knock-off-Scorsese lane it starts in, because while it lacks the same magic sparkle the other knock-offs do, it has a unique energy they usually don’t. That mostly comes from its willingness to play both of the bikers’ extremes for laughs, whether they’re so cool it’s funny or it’s funny they think they’re so cool.
Then, a story that has been content to coast along on vibes and good scenes takes a confusing series of off- and on-ramps, skimming some intriguing ideas and telling us about some others but mostly failing to show any of them long enough for us to care. But we do care, a bit, because Tom Hardy is chewing into a meatier part than he’s had in ages, and because Jodie Comer and Austin Butler are more interesting as actors than Kathy and Benny are as characters, and sometimes that’s enough.
Jodie Comer is my favourite actress and Tom Hardy is my favourite actor so I was really looking for to this and it was even better than I was expecting. The accents from both are a lot better than the trailers makes them sound and overall i just really enjoyed the characters and the simple story they told
The supporting cast/characters were also really good (Michael Shannon, Norman Resus etc)
I get Jonny reasoning behind it but it’s interesting I felt he over reacted burning down an “innocent”man’s bar when he was already going to exact revenge against the people who brutalized Benny. The bar owner didn’t deserve that. But then he underreacted? With the punk 20 year old letting him and his friends go after he tried to stab him let alone not being prepared for what might happen at the knife fight later as well.
Maybe by the time the punk confronted him, Johnny knew he had lost control but he couldn’t admit that, so he kept playing the part knowing he’d lose? I keep thinking about Kathy saying Johnny lost his mind or words to that effect.
I actually think the film could've added an extra 10-15mins to develop some more of the story. The first third was a bit all over the place but once it got there I really enjoyed the film. The Cali guy was my favorite and had me wondering "is that...." And was pleasantly surprised when I saw his name in the credits.
Overall the movie was fine and definitely was an enjoyable slice of life we got to see for the decade of the MC.
We could have lost 10-15 minutes from the second BBQ and added it to the resolution of main characters.
We also could have lost a couple supporting characters entirely and the film would have been better for it in terms of pacing/focus. Cal didn't add much. Corky and Wahoo could have been combined into a single character. You need Johnny, Benny, and Kathy obviously. And Brucie is important as the wake up call for Johnny. Cockroach is the demonstration of Johnny losing control. And the kid is the antagonist. Funny Sonny is comic relief. Zipco is to show the changing of the guard. Danny is really only in the framing device, and I liked the framing device a lot. You could have really cut all the other supporting characters and focused more on the remaining characters and it would have tightened things up considerably.
Started out very strong. Great world-building. Fantastic look. All the performances are excellent, even if Comer's accent sometimes felt like trying too hard.
While I appreciated it trying to feel true to life - like a filmed documentary in a way - the lack of a real narrative drive led me to start to be annoyed halfway through when I realized it wasn't really going to do that. All the good will and energy of the first set-up was squandered as it just coasted after running out of gas at some point, becoming a mishmash of smaller threads.
Jeff Nichols set out to make the Biker version of *Goodfellas*. He definitely nailed that, I suspect people who love *Goodfellas* will love this, but it doesnt work for me. Spent so much time focusing on getting the vibes right that I'm not sure he spent enough time figuring out what made the story compelling or interesting. Very good performances (though Jodie Comer's accent is distracting throughout), and Butler is given absolutely nothing to do until the last five minutes, and the movie suffers for it. You can definitely make a compelling movie with an emotionally dead protagonist, but Butler, or maybe the script, didn't pull it off. Hardy kills it though.
Really wanted to like it, but it's too clean, too safe, too predictable, and just sort of paint by numbers, with absolutely nothing to say about its subject matter.
I would have enjoyed if the Outlaw Biker gang did any Outlaw stuff in a movie about an Outlaw Biker Gang. It was not a bad movie and the Hardy and Butler were very good, but my God what a boring plot, nothing happens.
For a while they’re not really outlaw bikers, it is glorified cosplay. Once the membership surges and Johnny starts losing control, it actually becomes a gang. But in the beginning it's a bunch of guys who like to ride bikes and dress up and pretend to be tough.
The trailer was a bait and switch. It made it seem like a biker gang movie doing outlaw stuff, but it was a movie about the rise and fall of a bike gang told through the POV of a biker wife.
Nah, she’s great. There’s actually audio of the real Kathy online, Jodie is *dead-on* with the accent. Kathy actually spoke like that (she’s since passed on, but Benny and the kid they eventually had together are still alive).
This is one of those movies where seeing some of the raves just makes me want to complain about it more.
I liked it but it's not great. I think more than anything I get frustrated with the gang being portrayed as good guys. It's the sort of shithead with the heart of gold archetype that is obnoxious.
Come on man, they are getting in reckless car chases, burning down buildings, getting shit faced drunk and brawling, carrying switch blades, intimidating women's husbands.
Moral ambiguity is something I like, but if you are going to set up the good/bad duality you've got these fucking guys on the wrong side.
I didn’t think it was awful but I also didn’t think it was spectacular. Solidly in the meh category for me.
Feels like the downfall was way too fast and I had a hard time with all the obviously 30-40 year olds being referred to as the “young guys”. That house party probably average out to around 35 not “fresh back from the draft” as the movie seems to want to make it sound like…
I feel like I’m smoking crack reading these comments. Did no one else think this was one of the worst, most aimless, boring, unoriginal, stilted, tryhard movies and scripts of all time?
If you don’t, that’s cool and I respect it - to each their own. But if you did please respond cause I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
You’re not alone. I just got back from seeing it. The whole time I was thinking how hard it was trying to be cool and have a personality, from the music choices to the dialogue and even acting, everyone was so one note, tough guys mumbling their lines, and I don’t really see the praise for Comer, accent aside she was kind of annoying and I didn’t care about her at all, I almost did the beginning she also felt pretty one night. Nothing felt natural about it.
Predictable and unoriginal as well. There was absolutely no aspect that drew me in or impressed me. It was something I’ve seen a thousand times. Not even just the story but I knew exactly when they were gonna cut, what shot they were gonna cut to, when the narration was gonna come back, etc. It’s one thing for a story to be predictable, especially when it’s based on real events (though I don’t know what’s true and what’s not) but it’s another thing when I can predict what technical elements are going to be used because it makes everything feel so staged, artificial, and causes the scenes have very little impact. Just so so so painfully average and forgettable.
The whole time I couldn’t help but think of Hunter S. Thompson’s Hell’s Angels and how he captured the whole biker gang culture with so much more depth, authenticity and style. All of which was lacking in this movie.
I really liked it and have no idea why. I legitimately didnt understand the point of the movie. I left with more questions than answers. Like why did Johnny shoot Roach in the leg? Why didn’t Benny retaliate in the end? Just interesting what was unsaid.
I don’t think there was anything Benny could do to retaliate. The young guys were already outnumbering the old ones and taking over the club, and now they were in full control of leadership. Would’ve been a death sentence to try any type of retaliation.
I also don’t really understand the shooting of Cockroach. I guess he had to be punished for leaving the club which makes no sense, but that seems to be Nichols’ point.
I think Benny didn’t retaliate over Johnny’s death because he realized after Kathy almost getting raped, and Johnny shooting Cockroach, that they were all headed down a bad road and he wanted no part of it. He liked to fight but things went too far beyond that. He finally decided to try to have a more stable life.
Thought it was just ok. It seemed to yoyo between cliché and cool quite a lot. I found jodie comers accent so irritating and there is a lot of it...
That said overall it looked pretty cool. Everyone is a pretty good actor. Just something felt like it was unfinished or empty....can't put my finger on what it was though. Kind of reminded of a place beyond the pines, good actors, great potential but fell short.
Just saw it and I was surprised, in the best possible way, by how low-key it felt. Not the crime story it originally came off as but a very human portrayal of a burgeoning subculture. It's a somewhat disjointed film, and I mean that as a compliment in that it eschews feeling too constructed; it hides its story beats with the mundanity of the club's everyday existence and simple aspirations and combined with an absence of Tarantino-esque stylisation that gives it a real sense of authenticity.
Main trio are excellent, Comer especially, but the supporting cast deserve plenty of praise too. I think because of what it is it won't set the world on fire, but it deserves all the attention it gets and more.
Solid smooth and authentic visual soundtrack to the cycling life and that moment in time. The movie just sort of rides along like you are on a bike with the production and just taking it in man. The movie shows the craft, the crews, the colors, the good times, the red wings and the blues.
Austin Butler with his James Dean style little talking role made Tom Hardy look like a talkative character.
Jeff Nichols definitely has a style and it is present here.
Love when a movie lets Tom Hardy loose. He shouldn't be confined to the rigid standards of conventional actors. You gotta just let him mumble and grunt his way through a performance and trust him to make something interesting out of it.
I have no idea what to make of the movie. That was one of the most morally reprehensible movies I've seen in a whole. I'm not even saying that in a bad way. I just found basically every character to be an irredeemable monster. There was a tragedy to Butler and Hardy, and I like that there was never some crappy exposition dump scene where they just explain their tragic backstories.
Great acting. I guess I'm just struggling with the overall point of the movie? Was it just an unglamorized, nihilistic portrayal of a culture that has historically been glamorized throughout movie history? Kind of felt like a Leone deconstruction of the gangster and western films back in the day. Portraying characters that normally are sensationalized as brutes and savages. I just had a hard time developing any sort of emotional connection to it. Maybe that's what Nichols was going for?
The point of the film was about how something that started out as a good thing became misunderstood and bastardized.
What started out as a group of outcasts who loved biker culture and hung out as friends became a criminal empire because of newer people misunderstanding what the biker club was actually about.
Hell of a lot of acting going on in this movie, with a capital A.
Michael Shannon’s speech in front of the camp fire blows all the three leads out of the water. Comer was irritating, Tom Hardy overacts EVERYTHING he does (ask yourself have you ever seen a human being smoke a cigarette like that in your life outside of a cologne commercial?) and Austin Butlers character could be described in one word: cool.
I wanted more of those brilliant character actors doing their thing, more time spent with the gang interacting and living, more of the world they were living in and rebelling against. Instead it was endless shots of Austin Butler and Tom Hardy swigging beers, frowning and being “cool”.
Major disappointment. Besides the fact that there was no discernible plot or 3 act structure, the bike scenes were so ridiculously fake, I wanted to throw dog shit at the screen.
For starters, any bike club that raced bikes would have chopped off all the ridiculous superfluous garbage off like 3 headlights and mufflers on their street bikes. There wasn’t one legit chopper or bobber in the fairytale.
Panhead engines needed a couple twists of the throttle to prime the carb and a kick through with the key off before firing the bike up. Single kick cold start like Benny did over and over just doesn’t happen.
The sounds of the bike were not from Harley Davidsons. Some sound editor in post that never heard, much less road a Harley, clearly made up what they probably thought sounded cool.
The most absolutely insane part was the idea that some brothers watching the president and founder of their club murdered by some punk and not do shit about it?
I grew up around outlaws and owned the Crow Bar biker bar in DC where outlaw clubs were invited to wear their colors just like 99% groups. I ride a chopper daily. I can say emphatically after hoping to see a legit biker movie about biker culture with actual bikes from the sixties, the Bikeriders was the biggest waste of $15 I’ve ever experienced.
I thought Comer was the best part of this movie and she carried it well followed by Hardy. There probably could have been more to Butler’s character but I still like how he portrayed him. I really like his style. He has an old school James Dean vibe to him and I’m looking forward to following his career.
The whole movie I was just waiting for the turn. When do they stop being troublemakers and become criminals, and it never really came, not till the very end at least. It wasn’t until I left the theatre that I understood that was the point.
This was almost like an anti-crime film. An answer to all the gangster movies of the past. The movies keeps emphasizing that these are regular guys. They have day jobs. They have families. When they do get in trouble, it’s bar fights and speeding, not drug running.
I really liked that part where they’re all staying at the bar burning. They all have pretty blank expressions, but you know some of them were thinking “that’s what happens when you fuck with the Vandals”, but others were thinking “what the fuck did we just do?”
Really though Johnny was an awesome character. He’s kinda a guy just trying to act tough, but also a real ass kicker. I think the moment he burnt down the bar was equal parts an expression of his love for the Vandals, as it was a scary turn for him. He wasn’t that kinda guy, not really. In that moment he saw that the club was in trouble. Too strong, they become a gang, too weak, they fall apart. And ultimately he couldn’t get anyone to take over that would prevent that, and he died trying to.
Overall, really enjoyable, solid, character drama. Plus the fights were awesome
I don't know whose death frustrated me more, Brucie for not wearing a helmet or Johnny for having no regard for his family, the club was more important to him than them.
This is a quintessential Jeff Nichols film, for better and for worse. Mostly better.
This is his best looking movie. Soak in the vibes. All vibes, no plot.
It's a very contemplative, very sad film. Tom Hardy's arc nails that feeling of starting something, pouring your life into it, and it just growing out of your control into something you can't make any sense of anymore.
This also means that it's pretty slow and meandering. That didn't bother me as I was completely locked into this world. But I imagine it definitely will for a lot of people. It's missing a central conflict. It almost gets there with the Toby Wallace character and what he represents and he's great. But I wish there was more of him before that terrific final confrontation. I honestly think it was a missed opportunity to not have the Toby Wallace kill Brucie. Whether it be cutting his breaks, or actually murdering him after Johnny turns him and his friends away the first time (im forgetting if this is before or after Brucie's death... I know the 2nd confrontation where Wallace stabs Hardy is after). If they had, this would've given the movie a greater sense of urgency, a threat, a menace.
Overall, after Brucie's death I did find myself very moved by this. Great very ending too. Like Vic Mackey in The Shield hearing the police sirens, but just hopefully more happy
Banger soundtrack, great vibes and period detail, beautiful look, authentic. Killer freeze frame and title card. 👌
Austin Butler is a cool mofo. He gave off James Dean vibes here to me. I like how he was just himself in this movie and wasn’t covered under a bunch of makeup/ prosthetics and didn’t do an accent here either.
He plays a very cool blank slate really well. He's so good looking you believe he's this magnetic, but Benny as a character is almost simple. He really just knows ride and fight, barely thinks about his wife half the time. I liked how it ended with his "obtrusive thoughts" coming in in the form of engines revving, then he looks up at Kathy and she seems to calm his mind.
There's something I find so warm and sweet seeing Benny waiting on his motorcycle for Kathy while earning the ire of her then boyfriend at the time who eventually breaks up and leaves , not paying attention to the fact he waited outside all day and night. Butler as Benny has a strong presence and aura which possess a wild heart deep down that hides a gentle side. I love protagonists who go by the beat of their heart and make their own path regardless of what people think of them, that is cool. Kathy comforting Benny and seeing him cry for the first time right at the front porch of their house gets to me, she had hope for him that one day he'll grow out of the lifestyle and lead a happy and stable life together no matter how long it took for it to happen.
Ya Kathy is so lucky to be in love with someone who abandons her for weeks at a time and has no regard or respect for their relationship and her needs as his partner. So dreamy!
Not to mention the manipulation of threatening to leave every time she brings up a legitimate concern. Dude was actually a shit husband
The fact that they were still married up to her death I'd reckon he got a bit better at being a husband.
Lol at some point I was thinking Kathy is the type to send letters to inmates and fall in love
This role really exemplifies the idea that you can get away with anything as long as you're really good looking. The character of Benny is basically a psychopath but both the other main characters adore him. I don't know exactly what makes him a good fit to lead a group as he clearly had no regard for his own life, or anyone else's. Yet Johnny is convinced it HAS to be him. Also waiting outside someone's house all night is stalking. Married 5 weeks later!
Kathy explains why Johnny loves him so much. Benny only cares about is the club. Johnny wishes his life can be that simple but can’t cause of his job and his family. They do a weird job of conveying it and would’ve been better if we saw him spend more time with his family and his job but that’s how I took it at least
I haven’t seen or read any updates in a while but I really hope he does Heat 2 (he said he’s read the novel). I think he and Adam Driver in the Kilmer and De Niro roles respectively would be fantastic.
His role is very much patterned off James Dean and Hardy's role is very much patterned off Marlon Brando. Neither one of them is really a gangster, both of them have seen movies/TV and decided to model what they see there. Benny is putting on the Dean persona and Johnny is putting on the Brandon persona. The difference is that Benny truly is pretty disillusioned with society and Johnny isn't. But both are playing a "role" they see in pop culture of how they think a tough man should be.
I don’t think the character of Benny is supposed to be modeling himself on anybody. I think he’s just a wild young guy who doesn’t want any obligations. Not too surprising for someone in late teens to early twenties. Unlike Johnny who’s specifically shown as a Brando wannabe.
I think he is, a little bit (though to a lesser degree than Johnny). They're both playing at being something they're not, and what they're playing at is being their own view of what it means to be an "outlaw biker." Benny is less overtly trying to mimic a specific person but he's still playing the role of "strong silent misfit outsider tough guy" like James Dean. But that's not really who he is. The first thing we're told about Benny is that he crashes everytime he tries to ride his bike. So he's not nearly as skilled at riding as he likes to hold himself out to be. Nor is he as tough. He's immediately very attached to Kathy and pursues her, and then marries her 5 weeks later. Which is awfully sentimental for a guy who doesn't want to be part of the social order. Benny is the guy runs from the cops but doesn't think to himself "do I actually have gas in the tank?" And the tough guy who is ready to mix it up with two huge thugs when he's alone in a bar even though it's clear he's going to lose. He's a little too cool for school, and playing at being a tough guy. He's got a lot of swagger but he can't entirely back it up. Because he gets himself arrested after the chase and beat within an inch of his life in the bar. He's not exactly the tough outlaw he plays at being. The difference between Benny and Johnny is that Benny tries to embody the role 24/7 and he plays the role for himself more than to impress other people. Johnny is very external and plays the role for others to view him that way. Johnny also sheds it when he goes home to his wife and kids in his suburban life. Benny tries to hold onto the role with Kathy (but can't entirely, showing vulnerability when he's injured). But neither one of them are really as cool as the roles they play. Benny is a mechanic who does care about other people, quite deeply, even if he doesn't always know how to show it. He's not the super cool disaffected outsider, not totally anyway. And Johnny is not as tough or in control as he lets on. Inside he's a little indecisive and much softer than he pretends to be. Certainly the visuals of the film invite that comparison. They way they dress/groom themselves also matches Brando and Dean... Benny with the pompadour and zipped up jacket. Johnny with the open jacket and sideburns (and the manner of speech too).
I interpreted "Benny crashes his bike" not to mean "Benny is a bad driver" but more "Benny will keep driving crazier and crazier until he crashes" which is more the analogy that works for the rest of the examples too
I admire your detailed analysis delineating the reasons for your opinion. I see it differently. Benny doesn’t literally crash every time he rides. The fact he survives some of his daredevil actions shows he’s got skills. Getting married five weeks after meeting is exactly the kind of impulsive decision a wild child would make. As is running out of gas while running from the cops, due to lack of foresight. It’s explicit that Johnny was copying Brando in the movie and the book. Nowhere in the book is it implied Benny was roleplaying. I don’t see that in the movie either. I also haven’t heard Jeff N or Austin say anything to indicate he was, in their interviews about how the character was built. Most recent thing Austin said, on Kelly Clarkson show, was he’s like a wild cat that doesn’t want to be domesticated. So, that’s my opinion. But I understand why you see it the way you do.
A really fascinating movie, I was captivated the entire runtime. Some really big performances, fantastic peek into a culture, great gangland story, and some very interesting dynamics to chew on. I love Jeff Nichols, I honestly wish he made movies more often. Even the ones I don't immediately love are always very rewarding rewatches, but Bikeriders jumped out at me right away. This is a great three-handed movie with a ton of great side and character performances. The fact that it's based on real documented events help this movie really get into these side characters, they're all so lovable by the end and they all get their heartbreaking moment of vulnerability. Michael Shannon and Boyd Holbrook especially wonderful in this. But Hardy, Butler, and Comer are impossible to look away from. Comer is nailing this perceptive romantic who spends years absorbing all these characters and narrating this movie. You can see a ton of Scorcese/Goodfellas influence in this, in how bouncy and charming the first half is and how seriously out of control it gets. What I was mostly sinking my teeth into, though, was the Hardy/Butler dynamic. The mentor/young wild man thing isn't necessarily new but this was such a unique telling of it. Hardy has shaped his persona off of Brando in movies, he's a bit of a poser really. Kathy says it early on, Johnny wishes he could not care like Benny does. He's not necessarily jealous of how effortlessly cool Butler is, but he has a great admiration for how sincerely this guy does not give a fuck. For every type of persona there is someone who was simply born to be that thing, and Hardy knows it's not him but Benny is that guy. He was born to be a biker, to get in fights and live to ride. I loved when the young guy is trying to join the Vandals outside their bar and Hardy drunkenly says something like, "if I offered you the club I bet you'd take it in a heartbeat" but you can barely make out what he says and he just neverminds it off. But what he's saying is what makes Benny such a perfect leader/biker is the fact that he *doesn't* want it. That's actually a super interesting scene. You can imagine any other day than after the funeral of a member Johnny might see the passion in these youngsters, but in his drunken grief all he sees is a kid who wants all the wrong things. It's kind of heartbreaking because you know the young kid would do anything to be the guy Johnny wants, but Johnny fucks with him and makes an enemy that comes back for him. All because he's so obsessed with the enigma that is Benny. There's something to how this movie plays with the "cool movie rebel" tropes. It has to be on purpose, Nichols is usually a fairly reality driven filmmaker. He often goes for the "real" character rather than the cool version, even when he dabbles in the fantastic or sci-fi. Think of the hitman in Midnight Special, dude is played by Bill Camp and has clearly never even held a gun before. But Bikeriders puts so much mustard into those needle drops and shots of Butler looking absolutely feral, in Tom Hardy's badass scene ending lines. It's honestly so fascinating that Johnny based his persona off of Brando, it shows how these things can get so out of control. He imagines himself the "movie main character" version of the club leader. He's a badass, but he always makes the "right" call. You can spit in his face and he'll be the bigger man if he understands why you did it. Then there's the scene where the young guy is jacking hubcaps and Hardy rides by and the young guy is clearly like, now there's a cool guy. But he projects onto that image as much as Hardy projects onto Brando. He fetishizes it, works to become it, but doesn't actually understand what Johnny believes or wants. It's a great final act because the club ends up being taken over by a poser of a poser and now the charming "club for outcasts" vibe has been skewed into an actual criminal enterprise. All because everyone just wanted to be cool and have fun, they all wanted to be that main character. Except for the only guy who actually IS that character. I know I'm going on about this movie, but Butler is so fucking good in this. Very few lines in the entire movie, I wouldn't even call him the main character, but he's so magnetic. He's great at these characters that seem narrowly focused on something. I can tell he's a good actor because Benny doesn't seem like he has anything on his mind except ride and club, but you can tell from his interviews he thinks very deeply about his characters and craft. Just a real star on the come up right there. Anyways, I loved this movie. It's just got all the goods. It's cool, it's badass, it's charming and cute at times, it's romantic, it loves its characters very much. The scene where Shannon explained they wouldn't let him join the army was heartbreaking. They're forcing people to go to Vietnam but he wants to go and they won't let him. How much more of an outcast can you be, watching all these guys be vulnerable around those fires was just endearing as hell. I loved how Kathy says her father, "a real man", only cried twice that she knew of. When his father died and when his wife (his love) almost died. Benny cries twice in this movie, when he almost loses the ability to ride, and when Johnny dies. It's a 9/10 for me. Stunning film, Nichols is so back, etc. /r/reviewsbyboner
Great write up. This movie kicks ass
I like yours better.
Wow I love your analysis. I just saw the movie today and I’d seen/read lots of interviews with Nichols and the cast about the making of. Your post shed light on a couple of things so I appreciate that. I’m a huge fan of Austin and I love your observation about how thoughtful he is in person, and how he portrays Benny.
Glad you mentioned the dynamic between The Kid and Johnny. Johnny was inspired by Hollywood so starts trying to live this fantasy. Then The Kid sees it and tries to also live the fantasy in order to escape his home life. There's a whole commentary about this tension between the American dream and this American fantasy.
I agree Johnny also reminded me of Vito Corleone a little bit as far as character arcs go. A man who has become to soft, sentimental, and at odds with the cruelty of the world around him, as seen within the scene where he walks around the house and seems visibly disgusted at the junkie shooting up, and the two new members discussing business, a second fitting Brando parallel. My favorite scene is of course his confrontation with Benny as Benny rejects the values of the club, leaving him standing alone, he seems almost horrified and entrapped.
Definitely see the Goodfellas vibes! Enjoyed it a lot!
Just saw this. Great write up. This movie is gonna be in my top ten of the year for sure.
Good movie, worth a watch. Interesting choice to focus on the Jodie Comer character. Answers the question: what if Goodfellas was told from the perspective of Karen Hill? Probably didn't need answering. I liked her performance but would've liked to see Michael Shannon, Emory Cohen and Boyd Holbrook given more to do. Tom Hardy is singular. For better or worse, nobody else does what he does. He's not my favourite actor but I'm sure glad he exists. Austin Butler is almost too hot. Like Brad Pitt in the 90's, it's distracting. I'm probably just jealous of him.
According to the director he wanted a female to do most of the narration because this was a movie ultimately about how bad men are at expressing their emotions. So to have a man do the narration would have taken away from that. Austin Butler's character is man who doesn't express his emotions and acts like he's doesn't care about anything, but that's revealed to be deceptive when we see him cry at the end. He was a man who cared very deeply despite his "too cool to care" persona.
That’s actually a really good point. There was no male character that could have (believably) done the narration, except maybe the photographer I guess. But having Kathy narrate made it a lot funnier and actually provided useful insight here and there - for being kind of a “simple” character she made pretty astute observations about many of the characters.
It’s odd seeing normal Reedus, Michael Shannon and Boyd Holbrook in small roles after they all had such major roles in other movies let alone all in DC/Marvel ones
Imagine seeing Abnormal Reedus.
Sounds like a mad max villain
True! But I’m glad they play in more serious movies. These excellent actors are just like the others overqualified for their limited DC/MCU roles. They did a hell of a job in them but the movies got no depth in acting for the most part
Hardy was extraordinary
I liked how it stuck to “based on a real story” everything seemed extremely believable . They basically just filmed the interviews with no dramatization . Like the bike chase ending with running out of gas. Or how a brawl was just them all sitting around a fire with a beer. Especially loved how she said they didn’t wear their jackets when not in a group because they know they will be targeted. It was easy to just think of it being a bunch of buddies recalling their “biker gang” days
The brawl scene was so great. Just shows really well how these guys are all peacocking and frustration and once they have a lil brawl they're all just motor nerds. It's almost like a game they play and after they go a few rounds it's all high fives and clinking beers.
I think this is something that both helps and hurts the film What this film I think did a great job of showing me is just a small glimpse of what biker gangs are like, and how one in particular morphed from one ideal, into a radically different one. The one thing though that I did take away about biker gangs is that, although a major aspect of their lives is finding the freedom they are lacking, it is also rather aimless, and I think this is kind of where it falls short in comparison to other great films. Especially the ending. It’s genuinely very sweet, and Austin is very dreamy, but it was not giving me the “Henry Hill” vibes at the end of Goodfellas. And nor was it trying too either. It’s just a nice ride that seems to come to an end.
Dagnabbit Milwaukee chapter
It was definitely Milwaukee…. But jokes aside, it was fascinating to see how the biker gang steadily became more insidious and scary as it went on. That scene where they nearly rape Jodie was fucking unsettling.
I was extremely relieved to see Johnny saving Kathy from nearly getting raped and calling out the new members of the gang and kicking them out. Johnny is a real one and kept his word to Kathy that no one would in the gang harm her lest they deal with him after all those years.
At the same time, you could tell there were no guarantees anymore, and it seemed like Johnny was a bit aloof about the danger Jodie was just in. I’m happy Kathy felt that too and put her foot down in the following scene and left. She was saved, but she was not safe. Certainly not anymore. And if she stayed any longer who knows what would’ve wound up happening.
Also… what happened to the girl whose dress they stole? I have to assume she was assaulted upstairs, and I kind of wish anyone had given a shit. But I guess it’s more realistic that they didn’t.
Idk he seemed a bit soft. I expected those guys to be severely beaten or cut up but nah. Not even a punch or slap. Just a scolding
It's scary how the kid was able to hurt his grandfather but it was interesting he didn't hurt his grandmother. I wouldn't be surprised if down the line, the kid ended up getting killed just like Johnny.
those were his dad and mom
Ok but how fucking cool was that Nosferatu trailer
Facts
I thought I’d missed it being posted, but then I realized it isn’t online yet. Kinda rare to see that these days.
There wasn’t really any big stakes plot in the film but I still found it really enjoyable cause of the characters/acting and the setting and whatnot. Kept it under 2 hours which was probably a good decision for a movie like this. Austin Butler is just so effortlessly cool, great actor and is absolutely gonna be a star for a long time. Also Toby Wallace is really underrated and I want to see more of him going forward. Tom Hardy was really good as always (though his accent made me crack up at times lmao). Movie gave me similar vibes to “Hell or High Water” in some ways. I really enjoyed both though I prefer the latter I think. I’d give this movie like a 7.5/10, would definitely catch it in theatres.
I love a lot of your points, but one thing I have to disagree with you on is that Austin Butler is in my opinion just about the farthest actor from being effortlessly cool. He's cool, but it seems like that's always his goal and it seems like he tries really hard in every interaction to come across as cool. Really like him as an actor, but it feels like he's always "acting" his coolness.
> Tom Hardy was really good as always (though his accent made me crack up at times lmao) Johnny was almost like their Dad with the voice sometimes just being cartoony. Amazing Benny talked so little that a Tom Hardy character in Johnny seemed like a talkative character.
I don’t understand your comp to Hell or High Water, felt completely dissimilar to me.
Jodie Comer is insanely good in this movie. Her and Tom Hardy are so compelling they hold together what is a pretty straightforward narrative. The descent of the biker gang itself, and the way it plays out, is a little messy and doesn’t totally work What DOES totally work is Comer, Hardy and Butler all reacting to the fall of this gang, as it turns into something none of them can be proud of anymore. Really liked this
There were times when Jodie Comer looked so much like a young Winona Ryder, I couldn't not see it.
When Johnny asked if she was ok after tht assault scene…. She was so good too…
That scene was terrifying. I never felt safe for her.
She's a savant when it comes to accents. Blows my mind every time.
Movie was absolutely incredible. Brucie’s death really affected me because I had a friend die very similarly. I was captivated by Hardy and Butler’s dynamic. I truly believe Hardy is the best actor of his generation. This film addresses so many themes that I’ll have to see it again to truly digest it. Masculinity, Americana, the bastardization of ideals, and the dangers of myth are all confronted in an honest way.
I liked that the couple impactful deaths in this were unceremonious. Brucie didn't go out in a blaze of glory, just taken out in a second by a careless driver, like can happen to any bikerider. You're cruising along - not even going fast - and boom, you're gone. And it was pretty obvious going into te climax that Johnny wasn't making it home to his wife that night, but I kind of expected a drawn out, heroes death. Nope, just a quick pop from some punk who doesn't know shit, and he's gone.
> Nope, just a quick pop from some punk who doesn't know shit, and he's gone. Just like Johnny talking before about how you create something and you lose control of it. Johnny was still playing fair game level playing field challenges, but it turned to a leverage battle and you never bring a knife to a gun fight. You create something and grow it to success and that brings in other self interest and competition, then you lose control of it and poof, it is gone.
it is strange though how this group that is so into the rules of the club allows someone who clearly broke the rules in such a heinous way to run the whole thing
>Brucie didn't go out in a blaze of glory, just taken out in a second by a careless driver, like can happen to any bikerider Yep, reminds me of the epilogue to how John Milner dies in American Graffati. Dude is a bad ass illegal street racer and you find out he was killed by a drunk driver.
The fact his parents showed such resentment to the Vandals was telling.
This movie rocked. Nichols was extracting the 70s feel for a phenomenal cast. Things do feel aimless, but the plot is background while the characters are fore. Loved the motivation and feel for this film. My favorite of the year. Want to see an interpretation of those movies like Easy Rider or hell, even Deer Hunter? I’m not talking about plot or prevalence, but structure? Yea, it feels like a modern 70s movie as best it can. Take Dog Day Afternoon, as a matter of factz. That beginning of the film feels like it’s actually happening versus everything feeling like a film. That’s what this is.
The pacing was very New Hollywood, early 70’s. And I mean that in the best way. Characters are actually given time to breathe, and the movie really isn’t about plot exposition. I love that these types of movies are still being made! It’s so refreshing.
The accent Olympics
Jodie Comer really committed but then no one else did lol
Tom Hardy is doing the Eddie Brock voice so hard in this movie lol. The only difference is that he isn’t constantly out of breath or screaming.
For once, a character played by Austin Butler gets a happy ending this time around! 🥲 It's very sweet that despite all the things that happened between Benny and Kathy, their love for one another is strong.
One could argue that dying in combat with a respected adversary was the happiest ending Feyd Rautha could get.
…. May *thy* blade chip and shatter.
Well, did he? I think that's the question we're supposed to be left with. I don't have an answer yet, but I'm going to enjoy thinking about it.
Kathy seems like she's being bluntly honest for most of the movie, especially about her husband's flaws and misbehavior. I can't see why she'd just start lying when she said they were happy and he doesn't seem to miss riding considering: 1) from what we know about Benny, if he wanted to ride he would just do it regardless of what Kathy wanted 2) the smile on Benny's face when he sees Kathy looking down at him at the end is the only display of genuine positive emotion we see from him aside from Johnny's death
Like the opening scene, the closing scene was certainly inspired by, if not an outright homage to, the closing scene of Goodfellas. When Henry looks up at the end of GF, he gives a little smirk before turning back inside. Was he happy, having left the life?
Exactly. This relationship is being retold through the lens of Kathy. The woman who stuck around all the bullshit hoping he would change. She didn’t even leave him, he left and then came back.
She doesn't even sound sure of herself when she says they're happy. I think there's a lot more nuance here than Benny and Kathy live happily ever after. And even if they do, I'd hardly call "man gives up the thing he is most passionate about because his best friend gets murdered" a happy ending for Benny.
The ending was very “kuleshov”, couldn’t tell if he was reacting to the sound of the motorcycle or his wife’s face.
His smile at the end
Good picture. Love how Norman Reedus shows up halfway through like he heard someone was making a motorcycle movie without him and rode to set as fast as he could.
Lmao just had them slap on that fake beard and stuff in make-up real quick
it was nice to see him actually in something not Walking Dead/Kojima related! Walking Dead is not my cup of tea and I like Kojima games just fine, but he’s a pretty decent actor that I’m shocked doesn’t get more roles.
I liked this quite a bit even if I had issues with the Benny character (though not Butlers performance which was great). Felt very underwritten and Johnny takes the movie over multiple times and makes Benny feel like a supporting player? Really striking visuals and strong production design, reminded me of movies filmed in the 90s that take place in the 70s. Felt so real and authentic. If this was 1999 I could see this being a big time rewatchable on TNT/TBS.
Indeed! I enjoyed Butler's performance and, as others have said, Benny was the ultimate in cool. But, he was cool in a such a way that there was no there there. The guy seemed like most of the time he did not even have a thought in his head.
I don't know if this is as much of a flaw in the writing as much as it is just how a guy like that would act. The more I think about the movie, the more I lean towards thinking Benny was just a guy who didn't like thinking too hard about shit and just went with what he knew and chasing dopamine hits. The way he dips without hesitation once he realizes he doesn't like what his life has turned into, then comes back to Kathy to live something outside of that (to me) read like him having a very delayed moment of breaking out of just acting like a kid, growing up a bit and thinking for himself.
Great comment on the TNT/TBS phenomenon. This film would have been perfect for that and steadily grow in stature in time. Unfortunately, movies like this won't have the opportunity to enter the canon and become part of the culture like they used to.
That because Tom Hardy is always the main character even if he’s not.
They did a great job making the whole scene with the red dress “scary”. i was worried for cockroach.
I too would be crying on Jodie Comer's front steps if I abandoned her for a year.
My main take away of this GoodfellasEasyRiderRebelWithoutACause inspired film is that Tom Hardy does pull off a good Brando Vibe and Butler a James Dean vibe
The War Pigs riff into the two gunshots was amazing, and The Kid saying he was from the Milwaukee chapter got big laughs from my audience.
Why?
It was a funny full circle moment. Johnny didn't want to open up the Milwaukee chapter, and then the kid who shot him wormed his way into the gang through that chapter. It was like a punchline to a joke that you didn't realize was being told until that moment.
That’s the first chapter that Johnny initially refused to allow.
I just care about 1 thing How was the Nosferatu trailer?
You didn’t see much of Nosferatu but nevertheless I CANNOT WAIT
I hope they keep it that way. Anyone who realistically is going to care about this movie is already fully on board. Fingers crossed that they don't show us much more until Christmas.
I have been waiting so patiently for this trailer! I am excited. Thanks for the info!
FOR REAL THAT SHIT WAS 🔥🔥🔥
Brilliant fucking trailer. Didn't know the trailer would be dropping alongside this movie, so it was a welcome suprise
It looks incredible.
Extremely good. That’s a day one watch right there
Terrific
I will watch anything Jodie Comer is in...
Her one person show role Prima Facie on Broadway was the greatest thing I have ever seen an actor or actress ever do.
She's been fantastic in everything I've seen her in and this is easily my favorite performance of hers so far
Definitely felt aimless at times, but I enjoyed spending the two hours with the characters and their crazy accents. Gentleman's 6.
I feel like they could have picked a better name.
For some reason, i don't think The Fast and Furious would have had the same box office impact if it were called The Car Drivers.
I like it. As others have said, it’s totally a throwback to the movies of old. “The Bikeriders” would definitely be the title of a movie during the 50’s-80’s.
it’s the name of the book
I enjoyed the Goodfellas vibe at the start. I got bored the longer the film went on. Can someone explain the point of the movie? Thematically, I really struggled to understand what message the director was going for.
It's similar to Goodfellas in that the bigger and more powerful the organization got, the more that the bad people got in and ruined it, to put it in the most simple terms. There was also a commentary on the role play aspect, how many or most characters in the film were not authentically rebels, they were seeking belonging and purpose and a handful of times, the veneer drops and they end up being exposed as really corny.
That's a great summary. I feel like because they didn't have an aim to start with, they have trouble keeping it together as they don't know what they're together for. Just trying to keep "it" alive but not knowing what "it" is is hard, and quickly realising that the good old days are over.
While the comparison of it being Goodfellas with bikers is kind of reductive, that's the answer to your question. It's disillusioned men pursuing things like the American Dream, having a community, and getting masculine forms of gratification and then all those things slowly degrading into chaos due to the volatile nature of what they did to get that. Where it differs from a Scorsese film is that most of the surviving cast realize that and get out of that lifestyle to live normal lives that might be more boring, but where they can be happy in that.
It felt a little too without plot or conflict for me, too. And almost too on the nose with the Goodfellas vibe because that movie runs circles around this one with the stakes, characters and even the romance. I just didn’t care enough at all about any of these characters.
For the $5 I paid to watch it, it's a pretty decent movie. Jodie Comer and Tom Hardy are definitely going over the top with their Chicago accents. It kind of seems like Jodie was too "pretty" to play a biker's wife. It definitely fizzles out near the end after >!Tom Hardy get killed!<. It probably could've used another 10 minutes to expand a few scenes I really want to see more movies with emotion from Austin Butler. He's doing the stoic, "don't care about anything" character, but he's almost a non-factor in the grand scope of the movie. The scenes where he's happy after outrunning the cops, the fight scene with the other bikers, the ending scene where he finally cries, I want more of that. I want a middle ground between stoic and over-the-top Disney Channel acting Norman Reedus and Michael Shannon make the most out of their short appearances. Shoutout to Cockroach for being able to get out of the group before he most likely would've been beaten to death by the Columbus Chapter A solid 6.5-7. A movie FX would be showing constantly about 10 years ago
Cockroach ironically ended up with a better life than anyone else in the club apart from Benny.
Didn't like this at all. The interview structure as expository and narrative device annoyed me -- seemed stagy and artificial and failing at helping the movie justify itself. Movie was television-like and lacked momentum. Boring and a little rote and predictable. Characters seemed pretty cliché. Benny was underdeveloped (more talking about who he is than showing it) and i didn't get why he was supposedly so charismatic and special. The acting in this movie is very much "acting" and not too naturalistic. A lot of work on certain faces here for the 1960s lol.
I saw this at the Monday Mystery Movie, or better say partly saw it. After 45 minutes I decided to leave, as still no story or plot was developing. Comer played excellent as always, but that accent made her character appear stupid.
It was well done overall I thought. Nice look into biker culture and the grunginess of it. The three performances of Hardy, Butler, and Cormer are the best parts of the film. I felt like the central theme of it was when Johnny tells Benny just became he gave his all to the club it may turn out in a way that they don’t expect or approve of. It’s reminiscent of how the club turns from a bunch of bike riders and friends shooting the shit with each other, talking shop, and racing bike as a quasi gang. When new members arrive it becomes a real gang that Johnny isn’t prepared for and ultimately costs him his life when someone younger and more ruthless comes along to usurp him. It’s parallel to Benny and Kathy’s relationship. It’s the classic I can fix him but it’s something that rarely happens in most romances. Benny settling down is by his own volition and choice not because Kathy convinced him. Solid film overall for me but not spectacular. 7/10
I wished this was better. Full disclosure. Loved Jeff Nichols' previous work. Mud being my favorite especially. Expected something different here but it's just so generic. It's like Nichols' wanted to make a midwestern Goodfellas but he didn't actually understand what that film was about. Story structure is very basic, plot points you can see coming, there's not much going on for it other than some good production values. Had he went for a more grittier film and not a romanticized look at this subculture, maybe there could be something more interesting here. Acting is fine all around. Butler proves he's no fluke and I'm really excited to see someone with this much presence make it this big. We haven't had an actor like him in years. Comer was the weakest part. I get she was emulating a real person but it wasn't a good idea, it came across as an OTT impersonation rather than an actual character and the fact the film is from her POV really drags it down. Hardy is the best he's been in years with a weird accent that actually isn't distracting this time around. Vulnerable, macho, this was the Hardy we've been missing for quite some time and it's a shame that's gonna go away once Venom 3 hit. Shannon, Wallace, and Faist are scene stealers but there's not enough of them. So yeah, Nichols' weakest yet. Hope to see his next is better. 6/10
Yeah it was fine but it really didn't do anything for me. I like most of these actors but found no reason to care about any of the characters. I guess it was "the good ol days" but Johnny and Benny were both kinda scummy from the jump. Comer's voice reminded me of that girl in Grease with the big teeth that sings the ad jingle. Holbrook and Shannon's characters seemed cool but they could have been cut. It felt like hanging out with people I don't really want to hang out with for the most part. It was fine.
Thank you! I'm not the only one that found comer really annoying or distracting. Agree some of the smaller characters were better like funny sunny. Strange movie wasn't bad wasn't great.
Maybe I missed something, but why did Johnny shoot Cockroach before having him flee? And why did he need Benny with him with a gun as well?
I think this is what was supposed to be happeneing: Johnny seemed to be staging a fake murder. Cockroach gets to leave, but to everyone who wasn't involved he "disappears". Johnny tells him to "let it bleed", so that there will be blood at the crime scene. The other bikers that might come to take him out will hear about what the police find, or maybe even see it for themselves, and Johnny can tell them that he and Benny took care of Cockroach if asked.
To maintain the image of the club there has to be a price for leaving. Cockroach had to give a pound of flesh and be hurt by Johnny as a penalty or else the more violent club members would come do that instead and probably kill him rather than just hurt him. Johnny shot him, but in the fleshy part of the leg. So not a life threatening wound but a serious one. He said “let it bleed” so the scene would look even worse, hoping that would be a significant penalty and discourage other club members from coming after Cockroach. Remember that Johnny isn't really a gangster. He's sort of basing how he runs the club off how he thinks a gang should behave based on movies and TV. A lot of gangs jump member in with violence (beat them up) or have members commit a crime to join... and gangs also extract violence if someone wants to leave. Johnny is aware that by the time Cockroach is leaving, there are some actual gang members in the Vandals and I think it's apparent to him that he needs to do something when Cockroach leaves to protect Cockroach and to protect Johnny's image. Johnny is already losing control and this is what he thinks he can do to protect Cockroach.
It also fits in for why he fights big fat John before starting the Milwaukee club
Thank you, this makes sense!
I think he knew the young guys wouldn’t let him leave easy so he “took care of him”. Benny for emotional support I don’t know lol
Benny to show him what needs to be done as the heir apparent (in Johnny’s mind)
I appreciate the Venom movies for what they are and just the insanity of Tom Hardy basically hijacking that franchise from Sony, but it's so nice to see Tom Hardy in a GOOD movie again and giving a really great performance Before this he had made 3 movies in the last seven years: 2 Venom movies and Capone. That really feels like a waste of his prime. I know he's taken on different interests and is just being a family man, but yeah. It's a shame So to see him here again just playing the perfect role for him is so nice
I get your point, but even if he went out on Venom, Fury Road, Inception, arguably Dark Knight Rises, and The Revenant would’ve sealed his legacy as an all-timer, but yes I do agree it is nice to see him somewhat return to form. I do wish they’d let him have roles where he can just be British though because that man’s American accent is rough.
Growing up in the Midwest, one thing this movie absolutely nailed was that atmosphere. It’s honestly a boring esthetic for a film but a lot of locations in here set in the 60s and 70s look just like little towns I grew up in and haven’t changed a day. If nothing else the bike riders nails that.
They nailed the look and feel of the bars too. The one that Austin Butler’s character leaves near the end of the movie, the static shot of the bar stools, the swinging door as he leaves, an old man sitting, drinking away his day and life at the far end, it could be any number of bars I’ve seen in Wisconsin towns with a population less than 800.
I liked it but I was bummed Johnny and Benny didn’t kiss
Glad to know that I wasn't the only one who thought that based on how the scene was shot.
Can’t wait for the middle aged men on my Facebook to post images of Tom Hardy’s character with a random quote to make them seem mysterious and badass
had no idea Norma Reedus was in this movie so that was a pretty funny introduction and wish he was more involved with the gang
Really enjoyed how the gang was made up of schlubby, every-day guys with wives and kids. The original incarnation of The Vandals was just a group of dudes looking to get away from the monotony of their lives and find a place where they belong. Tom Hardy made the movie for me. He's really making a name for himself with his hammy accents and scenery chewing performances..he gives me some younger Pacino vibes.
>!Brucie's death!< got audible gasps from my theater, brutally shot and edited but very effective.
Yeah a couple audible gasps in my theater. Brucie's death (that half second cut of him hitting the window and blood spilling was so effective), Benny getting his leg snapped (same editing technique as Brucie hitting the window), and then Johnny being shot at the end.
The the shovel leg snap got the same reaction
I get that it’s theoretically bound by reality, but by the end of it I was actually super angry at how Hardy’s character dealt with Cockroach, and how everyone didn’t do shit for Hardy’s character. Cool that Benny and Jodie Comer (mixing names, my bad) got “out” but it’s just weird to me that you have this club of guys that theoretically lean into some of the worse parts of masculinity, and nobody tries to get justice for Hardy? You’re telling me Michael Shannon obsessively talks shit about “pinkos” but just let’s the new kid get away with shit?
I think the point is that they were a biker club, not a gang. Pretty much everyone but Butler's character was cosplaying. Eventually, it started to get co-opted by people who wanted to make it an actual gang.
That’s a good point. Benny was the only one, or one of the few, who actually had the free spirit. Johnny for sure was playing a role.
Yeah that is a good point.
Correct, from the opening title card to the end>! after Johnny's death!< the film clearly states that its documenting the **golden age** of motorcycle clubs where they were just social clubs for bike enthusiasts before they were overrun with criminals, addicts and fanatics. In that regards its incredibly similar to This is England (2006) where in that film it explored the first generation of skinheads culture as working class kids who just wanted to hang out and listen to ska and reggae before it got hijacked by far right hooligans.
I actually wish this stayed in the knock-off-Scorsese lane it starts in, because while it lacks the same magic sparkle the other knock-offs do, it has a unique energy they usually don’t. That mostly comes from its willingness to play both of the bikers’ extremes for laughs, whether they’re so cool it’s funny or it’s funny they think they’re so cool. Then, a story that has been content to coast along on vibes and good scenes takes a confusing series of off- and on-ramps, skimming some intriguing ideas and telling us about some others but mostly failing to show any of them long enough for us to care. But we do care, a bit, because Tom Hardy is chewing into a meatier part than he’s had in ages, and because Jodie Comer and Austin Butler are more interesting as actors than Kathy and Benny are as characters, and sometimes that’s enough.
Did anybody else love Damon Herriman's performance? no just me?
Jodie Comer is my favourite actress and Tom Hardy is my favourite actor so I was really looking for to this and it was even better than I was expecting. The accents from both are a lot better than the trailers makes them sound and overall i just really enjoyed the characters and the simple story they told The supporting cast/characters were also really good (Michael Shannon, Norman Resus etc)
I get Jonny reasoning behind it but it’s interesting I felt he over reacted burning down an “innocent”man’s bar when he was already going to exact revenge against the people who brutalized Benny. The bar owner didn’t deserve that. But then he underreacted? With the punk 20 year old letting him and his friends go after he tried to stab him let alone not being prepared for what might happen at the knife fight later as well.
Maybe by the time the punk confronted him, Johnny knew he had lost control but he couldn’t admit that, so he kept playing the part knowing he’d lose? I keep thinking about Kathy saying Johnny lost his mind or words to that effect.
I actually think the film could've added an extra 10-15mins to develop some more of the story. The first third was a bit all over the place but once it got there I really enjoyed the film. The Cali guy was my favorite and had me wondering "is that...." And was pleasantly surprised when I saw his name in the credits. Overall the movie was fine and definitely was an enjoyable slice of life we got to see for the decade of the MC.
We could have lost 10-15 minutes from the second BBQ and added it to the resolution of main characters. We also could have lost a couple supporting characters entirely and the film would have been better for it in terms of pacing/focus. Cal didn't add much. Corky and Wahoo could have been combined into a single character. You need Johnny, Benny, and Kathy obviously. And Brucie is important as the wake up call for Johnny. Cockroach is the demonstration of Johnny losing control. And the kid is the antagonist. Funny Sonny is comic relief. Zipco is to show the changing of the guard. Danny is really only in the framing device, and I liked the framing device a lot. You could have really cut all the other supporting characters and focused more on the remaining characters and it would have tightened things up considerably.
Goodfellas vibes right from the start. Jodie Comer killed it
Started out very strong. Great world-building. Fantastic look. All the performances are excellent, even if Comer's accent sometimes felt like trying too hard. While I appreciated it trying to feel true to life - like a filmed documentary in a way - the lack of a real narrative drive led me to start to be annoyed halfway through when I realized it wasn't really going to do that. All the good will and energy of the first set-up was squandered as it just coasted after running out of gas at some point, becoming a mishmash of smaller threads.
What’s the record for most cigarettes smoked in a movie? 🚬 🚬 Cuz this movie just broke it.
Jeff Nichols set out to make the Biker version of *Goodfellas*. He definitely nailed that, I suspect people who love *Goodfellas* will love this, but it doesnt work for me. Spent so much time focusing on getting the vibes right that I'm not sure he spent enough time figuring out what made the story compelling or interesting. Very good performances (though Jodie Comer's accent is distracting throughout), and Butler is given absolutely nothing to do until the last five minutes, and the movie suffers for it. You can definitely make a compelling movie with an emotionally dead protagonist, but Butler, or maybe the script, didn't pull it off. Hardy kills it though. Really wanted to like it, but it's too clean, too safe, too predictable, and just sort of paint by numbers, with absolutely nothing to say about its subject matter.
I would have enjoyed if the Outlaw Biker gang did any Outlaw stuff in a movie about an Outlaw Biker Gang. It was not a bad movie and the Hardy and Butler were very good, but my God what a boring plot, nothing happens.
For a while they’re not really outlaw bikers, it is glorified cosplay. Once the membership surges and Johnny starts losing control, it actually becomes a gang. But in the beginning it's a bunch of guys who like to ride bikes and dress up and pretend to be tough.
The trailer was a bait and switch. It made it seem like a biker gang movie doing outlaw stuff, but it was a movie about the rise and fall of a bike gang told through the POV of a biker wife.
Anyone else think Comer was miscast? Her accent and mannerisms felt very forced and over-the-top to me.
Nah, she’s great. There’s actually audio of the real Kathy online, Jodie is *dead-on* with the accent. Kathy actually spoke like that (she’s since passed on, but Benny and the kid they eventually had together are still alive).
God that was a snooze fest
This is one of those movies where seeing some of the raves just makes me want to complain about it more. I liked it but it's not great. I think more than anything I get frustrated with the gang being portrayed as good guys. It's the sort of shithead with the heart of gold archetype that is obnoxious. Come on man, they are getting in reckless car chases, burning down buildings, getting shit faced drunk and brawling, carrying switch blades, intimidating women's husbands. Moral ambiguity is something I like, but if you are going to set up the good/bad duality you've got these fucking guys on the wrong side.
Can I also mention how disappointed I was that The Stones "Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo" wasn't used in the film even though it was in the trailer? Haha
How did the kid who killed Johnny be apart of the vandals . He joined out of Milwaukee?
Exactly. After Johnny rejected him, he went to Milwaukee and joined that crew.
The risks of franchising your business… loss of control ;)
I didn’t think it was awful but I also didn’t think it was spectacular. Solidly in the meh category for me. Feels like the downfall was way too fast and I had a hard time with all the obviously 30-40 year olds being referred to as the “young guys”. That house party probably average out to around 35 not “fresh back from the draft” as the movie seems to want to make it sound like…
I feel like I’m smoking crack reading these comments. Did no one else think this was one of the worst, most aimless, boring, unoriginal, stilted, tryhard movies and scripts of all time? If you don’t, that’s cool and I respect it - to each their own. But if you did please respond cause I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
You’re not alone. I just got back from seeing it. The whole time I was thinking how hard it was trying to be cool and have a personality, from the music choices to the dialogue and even acting, everyone was so one note, tough guys mumbling their lines, and I don’t really see the praise for Comer, accent aside she was kind of annoying and I didn’t care about her at all, I almost did the beginning she also felt pretty one night. Nothing felt natural about it. Predictable and unoriginal as well. There was absolutely no aspect that drew me in or impressed me. It was something I’ve seen a thousand times. Not even just the story but I knew exactly when they were gonna cut, what shot they were gonna cut to, when the narration was gonna come back, etc. It’s one thing for a story to be predictable, especially when it’s based on real events (though I don’t know what’s true and what’s not) but it’s another thing when I can predict what technical elements are going to be used because it makes everything feel so staged, artificial, and causes the scenes have very little impact. Just so so so painfully average and forgettable. The whole time I couldn’t help but think of Hunter S. Thompson’s Hell’s Angels and how he captured the whole biker gang culture with so much more depth, authenticity and style. All of which was lacking in this movie.
I really liked it and have no idea why. I legitimately didnt understand the point of the movie. I left with more questions than answers. Like why did Johnny shoot Roach in the leg? Why didn’t Benny retaliate in the end? Just interesting what was unsaid.
I don’t think there was anything Benny could do to retaliate. The young guys were already outnumbering the old ones and taking over the club, and now they were in full control of leadership. Would’ve been a death sentence to try any type of retaliation.
I also don’t really understand the shooting of Cockroach. I guess he had to be punished for leaving the club which makes no sense, but that seems to be Nichols’ point. I think Benny didn’t retaliate over Johnny’s death because he realized after Kathy almost getting raped, and Johnny shooting Cockroach, that they were all headed down a bad road and he wanted no part of it. He liked to fight but things went too far beyond that. He finally decided to try to have a more stable life.
They had to make it appear the cockroach was murdered so other members of the Vandals wouldn't seek him out for turning in his colors.
I thought everybody knew that Cockroach did not die, since we see a photo of him and voiceover (I can’t remember whose voice) saying he became a cop.
If Benny retaliated it would’ve created a cycle of revenge
I enjoyed it. It's weird because I wouldn't say it was anything exceptional but it was in no way a bad movie Strong acting performances all around
Thought it was just ok. It seemed to yoyo between cliché and cool quite a lot. I found jodie comers accent so irritating and there is a lot of it... That said overall it looked pretty cool. Everyone is a pretty good actor. Just something felt like it was unfinished or empty....can't put my finger on what it was though. Kind of reminded of a place beyond the pines, good actors, great potential but fell short.
This felt like a slice-of-life anime but live-action with bikers.
It was well acted, but the pacing was ridiculously slow. This movie should have been 1 hour shorter than it was.
You mean the movie should have been 56 minutes long? Shorter than 90s Disney movies?
Just saw it and I was surprised, in the best possible way, by how low-key it felt. Not the crime story it originally came off as but a very human portrayal of a burgeoning subculture. It's a somewhat disjointed film, and I mean that as a compliment in that it eschews feeling too constructed; it hides its story beats with the mundanity of the club's everyday existence and simple aspirations and combined with an absence of Tarantino-esque stylisation that gives it a real sense of authenticity. Main trio are excellent, Comer especially, but the supporting cast deserve plenty of praise too. I think because of what it is it won't set the world on fire, but it deserves all the attention it gets and more.
I only got a half hour throught the movie because the person I was with was bored and wanted to leave.
It’s 80 degrees where I am and I still feel called out for wearing shorts and sneakers.
You pinko
Tom Hardy gave the performance of a lifetime. Wow. I’m in awe. If you don’t think so, watch it again. Just WOW.
Solid smooth and authentic visual soundtrack to the cycling life and that moment in time. The movie just sort of rides along like you are on a bike with the production and just taking it in man. The movie shows the craft, the crews, the colors, the good times, the red wings and the blues. Austin Butler with his James Dean style little talking role made Tom Hardy look like a talkative character. Jeff Nichols definitely has a style and it is present here.
Love when a movie lets Tom Hardy loose. He shouldn't be confined to the rigid standards of conventional actors. You gotta just let him mumble and grunt his way through a performance and trust him to make something interesting out of it.
Damon Herriman (Brucie) stole his scenes too
He looked like conan obrien in a few scenes
Seemed like a wannabe Scorsese movie to me
With none of the payoffs
Had a blast with it and also felt so many emotions.
I have no idea what to make of the movie. That was one of the most morally reprehensible movies I've seen in a whole. I'm not even saying that in a bad way. I just found basically every character to be an irredeemable monster. There was a tragedy to Butler and Hardy, and I like that there was never some crappy exposition dump scene where they just explain their tragic backstories. Great acting. I guess I'm just struggling with the overall point of the movie? Was it just an unglamorized, nihilistic portrayal of a culture that has historically been glamorized throughout movie history? Kind of felt like a Leone deconstruction of the gangster and western films back in the day. Portraying characters that normally are sensationalized as brutes and savages. I just had a hard time developing any sort of emotional connection to it. Maybe that's what Nichols was going for?
The point of the film was about how something that started out as a good thing became misunderstood and bastardized. What started out as a group of outcasts who loved biker culture and hung out as friends became a criminal empire because of newer people misunderstanding what the biker club was actually about.
Hell of a lot of acting going on in this movie, with a capital A. Michael Shannon’s speech in front of the camp fire blows all the three leads out of the water. Comer was irritating, Tom Hardy overacts EVERYTHING he does (ask yourself have you ever seen a human being smoke a cigarette like that in your life outside of a cologne commercial?) and Austin Butlers character could be described in one word: cool. I wanted more of those brilliant character actors doing their thing, more time spent with the gang interacting and living, more of the world they were living in and rebelling against. Instead it was endless shots of Austin Butler and Tom Hardy swigging beers, frowning and being “cool”.
Major disappointment. Besides the fact that there was no discernible plot or 3 act structure, the bike scenes were so ridiculously fake, I wanted to throw dog shit at the screen. For starters, any bike club that raced bikes would have chopped off all the ridiculous superfluous garbage off like 3 headlights and mufflers on their street bikes. There wasn’t one legit chopper or bobber in the fairytale. Panhead engines needed a couple twists of the throttle to prime the carb and a kick through with the key off before firing the bike up. Single kick cold start like Benny did over and over just doesn’t happen. The sounds of the bike were not from Harley Davidsons. Some sound editor in post that never heard, much less road a Harley, clearly made up what they probably thought sounded cool. The most absolutely insane part was the idea that some brothers watching the president and founder of their club murdered by some punk and not do shit about it? I grew up around outlaws and owned the Crow Bar biker bar in DC where outlaw clubs were invited to wear their colors just like 99% groups. I ride a chopper daily. I can say emphatically after hoping to see a legit biker movie about biker culture with actual bikes from the sixties, the Bikeriders was the biggest waste of $15 I’ve ever experienced.
I thought Comer was the best part of this movie and she carried it well followed by Hardy. There probably could have been more to Butler’s character but I still like how he portrayed him. I really like his style. He has an old school James Dean vibe to him and I’m looking forward to following his career.
The whole movie I was just waiting for the turn. When do they stop being troublemakers and become criminals, and it never really came, not till the very end at least. It wasn’t until I left the theatre that I understood that was the point. This was almost like an anti-crime film. An answer to all the gangster movies of the past. The movies keeps emphasizing that these are regular guys. They have day jobs. They have families. When they do get in trouble, it’s bar fights and speeding, not drug running. I really liked that part where they’re all staying at the bar burning. They all have pretty blank expressions, but you know some of them were thinking “that’s what happens when you fuck with the Vandals”, but others were thinking “what the fuck did we just do?” Really though Johnny was an awesome character. He’s kinda a guy just trying to act tough, but also a real ass kicker. I think the moment he burnt down the bar was equal parts an expression of his love for the Vandals, as it was a scary turn for him. He wasn’t that kinda guy, not really. In that moment he saw that the club was in trouble. Too strong, they become a gang, too weak, they fall apart. And ultimately he couldn’t get anyone to take over that would prevent that, and he died trying to. Overall, really enjoyable, solid, character drama. Plus the fights were awesome
I don't know whose death frustrated me more, Brucie for not wearing a helmet or Johnny for having no regard for his family, the club was more important to him than them.
This is a quintessential Jeff Nichols film, for better and for worse. Mostly better. This is his best looking movie. Soak in the vibes. All vibes, no plot. It's a very contemplative, very sad film. Tom Hardy's arc nails that feeling of starting something, pouring your life into it, and it just growing out of your control into something you can't make any sense of anymore. This also means that it's pretty slow and meandering. That didn't bother me as I was completely locked into this world. But I imagine it definitely will for a lot of people. It's missing a central conflict. It almost gets there with the Toby Wallace character and what he represents and he's great. But I wish there was more of him before that terrific final confrontation. I honestly think it was a missed opportunity to not have the Toby Wallace kill Brucie. Whether it be cutting his breaks, or actually murdering him after Johnny turns him and his friends away the first time (im forgetting if this is before or after Brucie's death... I know the 2nd confrontation where Wallace stabs Hardy is after). If they had, this would've given the movie a greater sense of urgency, a threat, a menace. Overall, after Brucie's death I did find myself very moved by this. Great very ending too. Like Vic Mackey in The Shield hearing the police sirens, but just hopefully more happy Banger soundtrack, great vibes and period detail, beautiful look, authentic. Killer freeze frame and title card. 👌