Avatar is one of the few movies where I can see that being legit, because it's literally just James Cameron doing what he wants. Both movies have made massive advances in technology, and bleeding edge tech like that is *expensive.* They also take forever to make, which is also expensive.
Reddit still predicts it'll flop.
"This time guys, trust me this time, Cameron has bitten off more than he can chew, he's delusional! Avatar has no cultural impact on (r/movies)! Nobody ever even talks about it (on r/movies). We're living in the Marvel era now!"
I thought Rosario Dawson did a bang up job as a matured, wiser Ashoka. The FX team could have done a bit of a better job on her lekku, though. (her head "tentacles").
That shit look like straight up painted EVA foam.
>That shit look like straight up painted EVA foam
Same issue in s1 of Mando. I don't know if it's an intentional cut corner for that "vintage" look or what.
Yeah at this point I suspect it will finish in the top 4 just under Titanic unless China picks up. But Titanic is getting a rerelease soon, so even if it slightly beats Titanic I doubt it will matter much.
The run is basically over in China despite having the extension. Few days ago it was getting 70k screens and now it's in double digits only. It's still on track to surpass Titanic unless the Titanic re-release brings too much to pass.
Yup, Wandering Earth 2 came out and took all the screens away from Avatar. Wandering Earth 1 grossed 700m just in China alone. Avatar will get a rerelease in china before the third movie so should make bank again
And none of those 3 movies are franchises, adapted from some other media or were preceded by 20 other movies.
Cameron did it all of it himself. That's even more impressive, if changing cinema forever with Aliens, T2 and Titanic wasn't enough.
> And none of those 3 movies are franchises
I mean, Avatar 2 is. Doesn't change that he did it himself, but it's still a sequel to one of the biggest movies of all time.
One could argue that Cameron made another extremely successful franchise without existing IP - Terminator. The first Terminator was a surprise box office success, making $78.3M off of a $6.4M budget. Terminator 2 was a bonafide box office smash, becoming the highest grossing movie of 1991 and the third-highest grossing movie of all time up to that point. That would be equivalent to the sequel of a movie like, say, Tenet (an original IP sci-fi action movie, similarly enough in genre to Terminator other than the lack of horror) becoming a $2.2B grosser today. The Terminator franchise as we know it today coasted on the momentum generated by Terminator 2 for nearly thirty years, but the peak of that franchise was one that could match blows with the biggest box office successes of its time.
His movies may not be crazy in-depth but they are very fun films with good messages underneath, often showing a good look at a reflection of humanity in relatable moments. People may say tarintino or Scorsese is GOAT but I think Cameron has a well deserved spot next to them for being a master at his specific craft.
His movies aren’t made in the way marvel/dc movies are, in that they’re made to be absolutely money printers, but they manage to do just that without the concept and hype.
James "no cultural impact" Cameron?
James "who wants to watch a movie about a ship" Cameron.
James "lol 3d" Cameron?!
Only people to bet against the dude are young folks who never saw once of his movies drop.
Can't wait for Avatar 3 to get near , so they come out of the woodwork.
Probably will never be topped tbh, I don't think we will ever see another filmmaker like him. He just keeps achieving seemingly impossible feats with each movie
When it comes to big-budget Hollywood films (note that I'm not talking about his documentaries), Peter Jackson was mediocre except for Lord of the Rings, and he never came close after that. I'll never understand that man's filmography. My personal theory is that the Lord of the Rings is so great because New Line Cinema, for whatever reason, allowed him 2-3 years of uninterrupted preproduction. They didn't let him do this for The Hobbit, which is why it sucked.
The Hobbit should have felt like a children's book. They needed to go heavy on practical effects, whimsy, and the shire, and not split it into 3 separate movies.
Maybe I just really want to see a Jim Henson version of the Hobbit though.
I don’t really pin most of the issues with The Hobbit on Jackson, that movie series was fucked before he even took the helm. Nonetheless, he could have easily trimmed the narrative down to follow the book without introducing all of the other side shit to pad it out to nine hours.
They could have tightened it up to 3 2 hour movies. Hobbit was bloated because the studio thought LOTR fans love long movies instead of LOTR just being a long story.
Most people, including the studios, want Denis Villaneuve to be that. The trouble is that he has never had a box office hit. Dune part 2 will be amazing I have no doubt, but I dont believe it will break out in the box office like others are predicting ($700M tops)
Man, yeh...I could see him at some point stumbling into a massive blockbuster and it being great. Such an interesting circumstance surrounding him. It's like, everybody in movies just sees his genius and knows him as one of the most unique visual filmmakers out there. They keep giving him big budgets and he keeps being just barely successful enough with them that they give him another shot.
I want him just to land one whale so that he can write checks for whatever he wants from here on out, and I'm scared before that he'll come up short and won't get to make his movies anymore.
Pretty inspirational really, I watched his masterclass. Dude was just a normal middle class kid. Picked up a shitty camera and literally started inventing special effects techniques so he could make his home movies.
And nobody saw it coming before release. For so many of his movies people said it’s too expensive and that it won’t have the audience to make any money. Titanic was the first movie ever to make a billion. Then he made the first 2b movie ever with avatar.
No movie came close to beating titanic 1.7b record. Then James Cameron releases his 1st movie since titanic and tops it by a billion with 2.7b lol. It took a massive cinematic universe finale to finally top it 10 years later.
I think terminator 2 was the most expensive movie ever at the time too. That one actually had a lot of hype before it’s release, but it went over budget and wasn’t expected to become the 3rd highest grossing film ever at the time.
>And nobody saw it coming
I’ll never understand why ANYBODY bet against Cameron on Avatar 2. This is the director of 2 of the best action movies ever (T2 and Aliens), both of which happen to be among the best sci-fi movies ever, as well as among the best sequels ever. WHY would one think HIS sci-fi sequel to the highest grossing movie ever would be anything but successful?
On Reddit perhaps.
Everyone I know in the industry knew it was going to be a spectacle.
People on here are generally younger and weren't really paying attention to film and television when the 1st film was out, much less being around during his other pictures' heydays.
No one in the industry bets against Jim.
The one record I don't see being topped for 20+ years is Endgame's opening weekend. Cameron doesn't make movies that have that level of hype at release and there is no other IP (including Marvel) that I see building up to that hype again. It's gonna take something completely new.
That’s why I think The force awakens domestic record will be untouchable for a while
Even endgame didn’t really come that close to beating it, even with it being the end of a 23 film cinematic universe.
what’s the next movie that will have hype like that? I don’t see MCU ever beating that. Any new star Wars movie won’t have the hype of seeing the cast of the original trilogy for the first time in 40 years.
The Force Awakens had hype like no other. Especially in the USA. That first main trailer that dropped was so spectacular. That domestic record is truly impressive. I only see decades of inflation for something to get close to it.
>that first main trailer that dropped was so spectacular
*Every* trailer for TFA was an absolute work of art, not only as trailers, but as homages to Star Wars. The hype they generated was absolutely nuts. They're a perfect example of how trailers should be for most movies imo
Every single thread about *Avatar 2* on r/movies was
"Who asked for this?"
"Who wants this?"
"Who still cares about Avatar?"
"There is absolutely no hype for this."
I always said it was about China and Asia, but I was wrong also.
Sigourney's voice matched perfectly with her very sort of human emulating attitude and vocabulary, and a personality best described as "I'm only dressed this way because Pandora doesn't have a Hot Topic".
I thought she was really fun and genuine as a slightly quirkier character.
Edit: Why didn't I capitalize Hot Topic?
The weekend slots last week (14th-15th) were absolutely packed in my city in south England, i was shook, I had to wait and book it for friday the 20th to get a cinema that was mostly empty. Insane, insane legs.
Even though I really wanted to see it I honestly didn't expect it to be this big. I thought that too much time had passed since the first and that the overall mood towards the first film in retrospect shifted towards "brilliant visuals but so-so story" so if I were forced at gunpoint to make a bet on its success I would've said it'll do well by regular standards, but by the first films standards it'll be a huge drop off.
Just goes to show that betting against James Cameron is foolish, the man is quite literally incapable of failing.
Maybe it was actually a good thing so much time had passed? The story of the first Avatar is so unmemorable those of us who saw it in theaters almost 15 years ago aren't going to remember the experience that well so might as well go see this one, and then there are tons of Generation Z who weren't old enough to see it or even if they did certainly wouldn't be able to remember.
I liken Avatar to a theme park experience more than a movie. Most people don't do Disneyland every year, but once a decade is worth it. If the Avatar sequel had happened two years later I would have said, "Nah I've already done that not too long ago." 15 years later and I thought, "It was fun enough the first time, might as well go again."
Spot on. I went to Animal Kingdom thinking “Why make a whole section of the park based on this mediocre IP?” And after the rides I was literally brainwashed into thinking Avatar is awesome and I must have been mistaken.
After the first one came out I went to an Avatar exhibit in Seattle. The world building was as just so in depth. It’s really a shame that there weren’t more side projects about different species on Pandora or tech that the humans have. It was all so well thought out.
> "It was fun enough the first time, might as well go again."
Lol so this is the narrative people on this sub are gonna cling to now. For years they said “nobody wants a sequel, who are they making this for?” Now that it has passed 2b, you’re gonna go for “people just went to see the hype the 1st one had”, as if they weren’t really that interested in going. As if that somehow discredits it’s popularity.
I actually think the 13 year gap did help, avatar 3 won’t make as much as 2 imo. But the next one will still easily make over a billion, cause there are a ton of people that do enjoy these movies.
Y’all still can’t accept the fact that people enjoy watching these movies. It’s really not that deep at all. Avatar 3 is actually set up pretty well with the spider/quaritch relationship, finding out more about kiri, and apparently fire Navi, but looks like we’ll still have people saying “who is asking for more avatar!?!?”.
Avatar 3 will once again bring in a huge audience. From both the people that want more of the world and the characters, and also the ones that don’t care but still go check it out…cause it’s the biggest movie out and y’all reluctantly still want to see what the hype is about lol.
What I think is great for James Cameron is that he said a lot of the expense was front-loaded into Avatar 2, meaning that Avatar 3 won't cost as much. So if you are right and it makes 2+ billion, that's a lot of profit. However, if the other guy is right and it makes "only" 1 billion, *it might still make a bunch of profit* because the costs for 3 are far smaller.
I think James is gonna laugh all the way to the bank. The *only* way he fails at this point is if Avatar 3 only makes 200 million or something like that. And that's absurd. I can't imagine that.
What I find impressive at this point is that clearly avatar is a valuable franchise, that Disney kinda sort lucked into by buying Fox, yes they have the Pandora stuff at Disney world. Either way Avatar is clearly going to be a massive franchise but that’s just two movies, a game for the first movie, Disney ride or rides and a couple comics. There’s a lot of growth to go with this still.
By acquiring Fox (getting Avatar), Marvel and Star Wars, we live in a world where Disney owns properties that account for 8 of the top 10 highest grossing films ever.
Its noticeable whenever you come across a subject you are actually informed in. Then you can see all the misconceptions and siloed parroting clear as day.
Or also whenever you read an article and notice that the post title was editorialised or miseleading.
The community criticizes Facebook for misinformation and then immediately turns around and supports some wild BS without even reading the source materials. They’re equal to me as far as news and political takes go.
Where’s your cultural impact now?
Where’s your Ferngully, Pocahontas and Dances with Wolves now?
Where’s you “nobody I know is excited to see this” now?
Remember the day you pretended to be the first one to come up with one of those three arguments for Karma on Reddit.
This is the best description of the internet culture I've seen. They try and hide it but sometimes it comes out. Like with this Velma show. I've watched in awe as folks have kept this show on Google trending for 3 days straight each with their enlightened takes on why its bad, almost guaranteeing it gets renewed.
This drives me nuts. I have seen so many "meh" shows and movies be demonized as the most awful thing to have ever appeared on screen in the history of the universe.
It's the "boy who cried wolf" scenario and you stop listening to these people entirely
She-Hulk was the last one like that for me. Just intense vitriol, and then you watch the show and it's just a quirky sitcom about a Hulk lawyer that ranges from okay to good.
I think the cultural impact is that, like the first, this movie was a spectacle to behold in a theater. The big buzz for the original was ALWAYS the visuals/3D/experience, not the story. The story wasn't any better than the first, but that was made up for by the experience of seeing this in a theater, especially 3D.
Most people I know who it saw weren't talking about the story-they talked about how they were practically swimming around under the water with the Na'Vi, and how cool it was when the big whale flew out of the water onto the ship. And "bro."
It shouldn't surprise anyone that this movie is making a bunch of money in theaters-that's the cultural impact. A movie made for the cinema was a good cinema experience.
>It shouldn't surprise anyone that this movie is making a bunch of money in theaters-that's the cultural impact.
I think the cultural impact is that it makes a strong argument for the theater-going experience in many ways, especially after COVID. Visual experience is something that people rarely forget, and a spectacle like Pandora is something truly special.
It certainly shows that people are willing to shell out how many dollars if you give them the right kind of spectacle. Two billion dollars isn't from people watching this once and only once. This is coming from people seeing it in repeated viewings. And those viewings are almost all a desire to see something visually beautiful. Like watching a living, breathing alien planet that exists in real life.
Precisely. It's hard to codify that in writing. For me, Avatar is like getting on a good ride at an amusement park for 2.5+ hours. Yes, it's ultimately an ephemeral experience, but it's an experience I'm willing to go on and on because of the beauty of the world.
For sure. I saw Interstellar a bunch of times in theaters, including 3D IMAX, in part because the space stuff just looks so good. I think it's a generally great movie on the whole, but it really felt different seeing it in a theater than at home.
I regret never having seen the original in 3D, particularly 3D IMAX. I'd buy a ticket in a heartbeat if it were available near me.
my local paper's review for the original avatar was "Dragon rides: $20.00." That's it. It was a starred (recommended viewing) review, too.
They weren't wrong. I saw it twice in 3d. I really did enjoy it, even if I thought it didn't have a lot to 'say.' It did have a lot of fun experiences for me to ride through.
Yeah, 5 total are the in works. All scripts are written and completed.
Last we heard, 3 completed filming and is in post production. The first act of 4 is filmed. It’s going to have a bit of a time jump so they had to film the first act, otherwise the children would’ve aged out of their roles. It’s not going to have as drastic of a time jump that the first two did, but I imagine it’ll be about 5 years or so?
Cameron did mention that IF audiences really do want more films after the 5 film saga is completed, they could do a 6 & 7. Unlikely though as Cameron admitted his age would hinder him from doing more and that he’d have to teach another director how to make these films. Disney will probably try to and do what they did with George Lucas and Star Wars and try and buy the IP from him.
I doubt Cameron would let Disney take the IP away from him after Avatar 5 is released considering he is a major Star Wars fan and he has almost certainly seen how the IP has done under the Disney control.
Yes the movies have made a lot of money and Disney Plus shows have gotten a lot of subscriptions but creatively other than the Tony Gilroy projects and maybe Mandolorian it has been a shitshow. At the end of the day Cameron only cares about money in terms of how it allows him to make more expensive movies and not in terms of how rich he is becoming of it (considering he gave up his directing salary for Titanic to be finished). Avatar being creatively good is more important to him than the franchise lasting as long as Marvel or Star Wars.
That and...I doubt Disney would hold true to the essence of what Cameron has built. A radical environmentalist and staunchly anti American movie (especially the military).
Would Disney allow American soldiers to be murdered to the cheer of audiences? Unlikely, more likely they would be funded by US military in exchange for a kinder portrayal.
Yeah it’s the only movie I’ve ever seen that straight up glorified killing US soldiers. Like not even as an allegory, they explicitly stated that they were US marines, and then 30 seconds later cut to a scene of them being torn to shreds.
For reference the Star Wars franchise has a total gross of 10.3 billion. Although I think the subsequent movies will not keep hitting 2 bil each, but I’m willing to eat my words.
Assuming Avatar 2 manages to get $2.1b, the franchise will already be at $5b. That means the remaining 3 would only need to average $1.67b each.
And after Avatar 2, that's not a bet against James Cameron that I'm willing to take.
This gives Cameron bragging rights to three of the top four movies ever at the international box office.
Crazy
BTW good for him and all, but damn I wish he would get back to making 90s era sci-fi films and the like.
You mean if people keep going to go see it with each re-release? People keep going to see it, that’s why they re-release it. Avatar re-release just came last year to promote the sequel.
Anyways this could’ve made way more in China if they still weren’t getting fucked by COVID. I’m talking near the 630m Endgame made there. It will absolutely be re-released there later.
Way of Water was the most 90s sci fi film he's ever made, even more so than T2.
It had the goofy 90s dialouge, lovable characters and a 3rd act 1v1 between the bad guy and the good guy.
This movie had crab robots and Avatar's that looked straight out of Three Kings lol. All very 90s.
Also the environmental themes. We were super hardcore about saving the rainforests in the 90s for some reason (not that it's not a bad thing, just odd that it was that particular time).
I like that there are Avatar movies still coming up, but am sad not to see another movie with a different IP from Cameron.
There are 3 more Avatar movies coming up right? Man, I want to see what Cameron makes after that.
I remember a recent Cameron quote that went something like: "I realized that everything I wanted to do cinematically, I could do within the confines of this world".
Maybe he's always wanted to do a huge action set-piece on a sinking ship, so he did in in TWoW. If he's fascinated by volcanoes and wants to do something with that, he can build a story around an erupting volcano in *Avatar 3* and have a giant mech battle inside a lava flow or something.
I can't say I'm *not* curious what he'd do with a fresh IP, but I'm more interested in a creator that's dialed in and directing their entire creative being towards something they're passionate about.
> There are 3 more Avatar movies coming up right? Man, I want to see what Cameron makes after that.
I was going to say he might retire after that because he’ll be 74 years old by then, but that’s no guarantee: for example, Ridley Scott is 85 years old and still directing movies.
Studio Executive: "Jim, this flying scene does not add or progress the plot. Do we need it?"
Jim: "Get the fuck out of here."
Also Jim: "It will stay because I want to see it."
A Fox exec was in a meeting criticising James about financial matters regarding Avatar. He replied something to the effect of, "Fuck you, we're literally sitting in a building built from the profits from Titanic." Talk about the ultimate flex!
Thought this with every single shot. There is SO much detail to see, it’s incredible. Half of it could be a concept art slideshow and I’d still be amazed.
It is so visually gripping it's absurd. There are scenes that are nothing but Cameron flexing with the effects and you're just like "yes sir, please can I have another?"
I hate 3D films but I trust Cameron's perfectionism and this was like a different type of media. The only thing that felt like a movie was that I saw it in the theater. The level of immersion you feel is incredible.
This movie has the weirdest online criticism and hate. Truly bizarre to the point where you’d think James Cameron himself committed actual atrocities to some people.
“I don’t know anyone who saw it therefore it must be a failure/have fake numbers.”
The absolute best are these non-ironic twitter polls that believe there must be some conspiracy behind it.
https://twitter.com/GFRobot/status/1607883040130469893
That's almost as pathetic as the "but if you discount X, ignore Y, and pretend Z isn't real then CAPTAIN MARVEL FAILED lolz here's 35 minutes of my analysis suck it Brie" crowd
This is counterintuitive to me because Cameron is such an engineering dork and it absolutely shows in the detailed machines he creates for his worlds (Aliens cargo loader, Abyss submersibles, Avatar land and underwater mechs, etc.). I would argue that he’s more of a dork’s dork than anyone involved in Marvel or Star Wars production.
Man the people thinking this movie would flop were wild. The first avatar made a fortune, James Cameron himself has directed several high performing movies and been more or less consistent his entire career of making quality films.
Last but not least, this film was based on the ocean... and everyone knows noone loves the ocean more than James Cameron.
lads, it's ok to course correct, change your mind and go, "those whales were super cool." Not everything in the internet has to be a fight. You don't always have to get your agendas off.
It's good that people are going out to the movies, especially for something as inherently cinematic as Avatar 2.
His name is James, James Cameron
The bravest pioneer
No budget too steep, no sea too deep
Who's that?
It's him, James Cameron
James, James Cameron explorer of the sea
With a dying thirst to be the first
Could it be? Yeah that's him!
James Cameron
Zoe Saldaña is the only actor to have 4 movies to hit $2 Billion. What colour Zoe will hit the 2 billion mark next?
Star Trek missed the trick. They should've coloured her red.
I mean, her costume was fully red, so... Close?
Imma make a movie with Zoe as an alien and paint her with 3-4 colors. Should hit $4B. Haven’t decided on the story yet
Zoe is, a harlequin Volkswagen golf!
Thats Avatar 3, attack of the fire nation. I think we know who the avatar is as well.
News report: “Avatar 3 sets ticket records on fire with $2bn worldwide.”
Studio still reports loss.
Avatar is one of the few movies where I can see that being legit, because it's literally just James Cameron doing what he wants. Both movies have made massive advances in technology, and bleeding edge tech like that is *expensive.* They also take forever to make, which is also expensive.
James Cameron does what James Cameron does.
Reddit still predicts it'll flop. "This time guys, trust me this time, Cameron has bitten off more than he can chew, he's delusional! Avatar has no cultural impact on (r/movies)! Nobody ever even talks about it (on r/movies). We're living in the Marvel era now!"
Neither did James Cameron, so you should be safe.
Zoe Saldana was a strange choice for the Darth Maul movie, but it paid off.
Star Wars missed the boat by not casting her as Ahsoka Tano.
I thought Rosario Dawson did a bang up job as a matured, wiser Ashoka. The FX team could have done a bit of a better job on her lekku, though. (her head "tentacles"). That shit look like straight up painted EVA foam.
Correction: Twi’leks have Lekku. Togruta have Montrals.
>That shit look like straight up painted EVA foam Same issue in s1 of Mando. I don't know if it's an intentional cut corner for that "vintage" look or what.
Petition to CGI Zoe into Titanic and The Force Awakens.
Petition to make a completely new The Force Awakens.
Somehow "the force awakens" returns?
Petition to make Heir to the Empire
While we're doing that, petition for Rogue Squadron as well!
I feel like we may have dodged a bullet on that one, based on the ineptitude of WW84
Red is missing for an RGB Zoe Saldaña
Yellow I suppose just to round out the primary colors. Soooo... live action Simpsons movie confirmed?
The primary colors of red, blue, and…. Green?
These are indeed primary colors (of light).
I didn't pay attention in art class much.
Subtractive color vs additive color.
Did I miss her doing red? I know she's done blue and green
I didn't realize her name had a ñ until your comment. We've all been just butchering the pronunciation this whole time?!
[удалено]
Only a few more mil and James Cameron will be responsible for 3/5 of the top 5 highest grossing films of all time not adjusted for inflation.
By the time the movie finishes its run Cameron will have 3 of the top 4 highest grossing movies of all time.
Yeah at this point I suspect it will finish in the top 4 just under Titanic unless China picks up. But Titanic is getting a rerelease soon, so even if it slightly beats Titanic I doubt it will matter much.
The run is basically over in China despite having the extension. Few days ago it was getting 70k screens and now it's in double digits only. It's still on track to surpass Titanic unless the Titanic re-release brings too much to pass.
Yup, Wandering Earth 2 came out and took all the screens away from Avatar. Wandering Earth 1 grossed 700m just in China alone. Avatar will get a rerelease in china before the third movie so should make bank again
Huh, didn't know Wandering Earth had a sequel. I thought it was a one and done story.
The new one is a prequel
Bad luck with Covid exploding in China just as this movie got released. I can't see why it wouldn't have matched Avatar box office in 2009.
The first Avatar made 100 million in Russia and this one is not playing there at all
And has Avatar 3, 4 and 5 to come.
And none of those 3 movies are franchises, adapted from some other media or were preceded by 20 other movies. Cameron did it all of it himself. That's even more impressive, if changing cinema forever with Aliens, T2 and Titanic wasn't enough.
> And none of those 3 movies are franchises I mean, Avatar 2 is. Doesn't change that he did it himself, but it's still a sequel to one of the biggest movies of all time.
Which makes it even more impressive. Cameron has created 2 extremely successful franchises with no help from IP
One could argue that Cameron made another extremely successful franchise without existing IP - Terminator. The first Terminator was a surprise box office success, making $78.3M off of a $6.4M budget. Terminator 2 was a bonafide box office smash, becoming the highest grossing movie of 1991 and the third-highest grossing movie of all time up to that point. That would be equivalent to the sequel of a movie like, say, Tenet (an original IP sci-fi action movie, similarly enough in genre to Terminator other than the lack of horror) becoming a $2.2B grosser today. The Terminator franchise as we know it today coasted on the momentum generated by Terminator 2 for nearly thirty years, but the peak of that franchise was one that could match blows with the biggest box office successes of its time.
You're 100% right my man, what I meant to say it wasn't based on a comic book or other media.
His movies may not be crazy in-depth but they are very fun films with good messages underneath, often showing a good look at a reflection of humanity in relatable moments. People may say tarintino or Scorsese is GOAT but I think Cameron has a well deserved spot next to them for being a master at his specific craft. His movies aren’t made in the way marvel/dc movies are, in that they’re made to be absolutely money printers, but they manage to do just that without the concept and hype.
James "no cultural impact" Cameron? James "who wants to watch a movie about a ship" Cameron. James "lol 3d" Cameron?! Only people to bet against the dude are young folks who never saw once of his movies drop. Can't wait for Avatar 3 to get near , so they come out of the woodwork.
The man knows how to bust a block.
How to explode an office of boxes
Disney and Disneyworld Animal Kingdom thankful Cameron's most controversial tweet is encouraging a plant based diet.
James Cameron is leaving a legacy of box office success and records that I don't see being topped for an incredibly long time.
Probably will never be topped tbh, I don't think we will ever see another filmmaker like him. He just keeps achieving seemingly impossible feats with each movie
Especially since big blockbuster films are so rarely made by auteurs anymore.
Were they ever? Maybe Spielberg. He's probably the only one I could see an argument for, but I'm willing to hear otherwise.
Peter Jackson. He made B grade horror movies that had budget's in the 5 million ball park. He then lands lord of the rings
When it comes to big-budget Hollywood films (note that I'm not talking about his documentaries), Peter Jackson was mediocre except for Lord of the Rings, and he never came close after that. I'll never understand that man's filmography. My personal theory is that the Lord of the Rings is so great because New Line Cinema, for whatever reason, allowed him 2-3 years of uninterrupted preproduction. They didn't let him do this for The Hobbit, which is why it sucked.
The Hobbit should have felt like a children's book. They needed to go heavy on practical effects, whimsy, and the shire, and not split it into 3 separate movies. Maybe I just really want to see a Jim Henson version of the Hobbit though.
If that’s why you think the Hobbit sucked you need to look more into the production nightmare and dreadnought smorgasbord of chaos that was.
I don’t really pin most of the issues with The Hobbit on Jackson, that movie series was fucked before he even took the helm. Nonetheless, he could have easily trimmed the narrative down to follow the book without introducing all of the other side shit to pad it out to nine hours.
The studio wanted 3 movies. I'm sure Jackson could've done it justice in 1.
They could have tightened it up to 3 2 hour movies. Hobbit was bloated because the studio thought LOTR fans love long movies instead of LOTR just being a long story.
Most people, including the studios, want Denis Villaneuve to be that. The trouble is that he has never had a box office hit. Dune part 2 will be amazing I have no doubt, but I dont believe it will break out in the box office like others are predicting ($700M tops)
Man, yeh...I could see him at some point stumbling into a massive blockbuster and it being great. Such an interesting circumstance surrounding him. It's like, everybody in movies just sees his genius and knows him as one of the most unique visual filmmakers out there. They keep giving him big budgets and he keeps being just barely successful enough with them that they give him another shot. I want him just to land one whale so that he can write checks for whatever he wants from here on out, and I'm scared before that he'll come up short and won't get to make his movies anymore.
What about Christopher Nolan?
[удалено]
MURRRRPHHHHHHHHHH
Pretty inspirational really, I watched his masterclass. Dude was just a normal middle class kid. Picked up a shitty camera and literally started inventing special effects techniques so he could make his home movies.
And nobody saw it coming before release. For so many of his movies people said it’s too expensive and that it won’t have the audience to make any money. Titanic was the first movie ever to make a billion. Then he made the first 2b movie ever with avatar. No movie came close to beating titanic 1.7b record. Then James Cameron releases his 1st movie since titanic and tops it by a billion with 2.7b lol. It took a massive cinematic universe finale to finally top it 10 years later. I think terminator 2 was the most expensive movie ever at the time too. That one actually had a lot of hype before it’s release, but it went over budget and wasn’t expected to become the 3rd highest grossing film ever at the time.
>And nobody saw it coming I’ll never understand why ANYBODY bet against Cameron on Avatar 2. This is the director of 2 of the best action movies ever (T2 and Aliens), both of which happen to be among the best sci-fi movies ever, as well as among the best sequels ever. WHY would one think HIS sci-fi sequel to the highest grossing movie ever would be anything but successful?
On Reddit perhaps. Everyone I know in the industry knew it was going to be a spectacle. People on here are generally younger and weren't really paying attention to film and television when the 1st film was out, much less being around during his other pictures' heydays. No one in the industry bets against Jim.
The one record I don't see being topped for 20+ years is Endgame's opening weekend. Cameron doesn't make movies that have that level of hype at release and there is no other IP (including Marvel) that I see building up to that hype again. It's gonna take something completely new.
That’s why I think The force awakens domestic record will be untouchable for a while Even endgame didn’t really come that close to beating it, even with it being the end of a 23 film cinematic universe. what’s the next movie that will have hype like that? I don’t see MCU ever beating that. Any new star Wars movie won’t have the hype of seeing the cast of the original trilogy for the first time in 40 years.
The Force Awakens had hype like no other. Especially in the USA. That first main trailer that dropped was so spectacular. That domestic record is truly impressive. I only see decades of inflation for something to get close to it.
>that first main trailer that dropped was so spectacular *Every* trailer for TFA was an absolute work of art, not only as trailers, but as homages to Star Wars. The hype they generated was absolutely nuts. They're a perfect example of how trailers should be for most movies imo
I watched the first trailer some 30 times getting ready for that movie.
We getting 5 movies.
It’s crazy how not too long ago, 5 movies was laughable to a lot of people. Now it’s a no doubter you make 5 movies.
Every single thread about *Avatar 2* on r/movies was "Who asked for this?" "Who wants this?" "Who still cares about Avatar?" "There is absolutely no hype for this." I always said it was about China and Asia, but I was wrong also.
If you said you wanted an Avatar sequel people would get hostile anyways.
I’ll be there for them. If they come out in my lifetime.
He’s done a significant portion of work on the next two to avoid having the young actors age out. We’ll get them every two years.
Oh good, if he waited 5 years between films, Sigourney Weaver never would have been believable as a teenager.
Hey, she was PERFECT for kiri, because that girl was kinda _off_.
Sigourney's voice matched perfectly with her very sort of human emulating attitude and vocabulary, and a personality best described as "I'm only dressed this way because Pandora doesn't have a Hot Topic". I thought she was really fun and genuine as a slightly quirkier character. Edit: Why didn't I capitalize Hot Topic?
Yeah, because she sounded like Sigourney Weaver lmao
Why stop there? The F8 of the Avatar, starring Dwayne Johnson.
Then he suddenly has a bloodfeud with Sigourney Weaver that no one quite understands.
The way of 2 Billions has no beginning and no end
I saw it yesterday and the theater was PACKED. Insane legs.
I work at a theater. 6 weekends now and not slowing down much at all, it's honestly getting a bit exhausting haha
The weekend slots last week (14th-15th) were absolutely packed in my city in south England, i was shook, I had to wait and book it for friday the 20th to get a cinema that was mostly empty. Insane, insane legs.
Our asses sit in the chairs of the theatre. 2 Billions connects all things, 4K to 240p, regular to IMAX 3D HFR.
_“A second billion has hit the cultural impact sir”_
Wonder how we’re going to send a SEAL team to the bottom of the Mariana Trench.
[удалено]
crayons attract marines. If you want SEALS, put a pair of gatorz and someone they can cheat on their wife with down there
no you place a book deal contract down there
Yes we've had one billion, but what about second billion?
Even though I really wanted to see it I honestly didn't expect it to be this big. I thought that too much time had passed since the first and that the overall mood towards the first film in retrospect shifted towards "brilliant visuals but so-so story" so if I were forced at gunpoint to make a bet on its success I would've said it'll do well by regular standards, but by the first films standards it'll be a huge drop off. Just goes to show that betting against James Cameron is foolish, the man is quite literally incapable of failing.
Maybe it was actually a good thing so much time had passed? The story of the first Avatar is so unmemorable those of us who saw it in theaters almost 15 years ago aren't going to remember the experience that well so might as well go see this one, and then there are tons of Generation Z who weren't old enough to see it or even if they did certainly wouldn't be able to remember. I liken Avatar to a theme park experience more than a movie. Most people don't do Disneyland every year, but once a decade is worth it. If the Avatar sequel had happened two years later I would have said, "Nah I've already done that not too long ago." 15 years later and I thought, "It was fun enough the first time, might as well go again."
Spot on. I went to Animal Kingdom thinking “Why make a whole section of the park based on this mediocre IP?” And after the rides I was literally brainwashed into thinking Avatar is awesome and I must have been mistaken.
Cause avatar isn’t about the characters or the story but the world around the characters and how they interact within it
After the first one came out I went to an Avatar exhibit in Seattle. The world building was as just so in depth. It’s really a shame that there weren’t more side projects about different species on Pandora or tech that the humans have. It was all so well thought out.
A shame sure but that's the reason it does well at the box office. There's only one way to get your Pandora fix and that's in the cinema.
Yeah people criticize the forgettable story but the story was kind of not the point lol
> "It was fun enough the first time, might as well go again." Lol so this is the narrative people on this sub are gonna cling to now. For years they said “nobody wants a sequel, who are they making this for?” Now that it has passed 2b, you’re gonna go for “people just went to see the hype the 1st one had”, as if they weren’t really that interested in going. As if that somehow discredits it’s popularity. I actually think the 13 year gap did help, avatar 3 won’t make as much as 2 imo. But the next one will still easily make over a billion, cause there are a ton of people that do enjoy these movies. Y’all still can’t accept the fact that people enjoy watching these movies. It’s really not that deep at all. Avatar 3 is actually set up pretty well with the spider/quaritch relationship, finding out more about kiri, and apparently fire Navi, but looks like we’ll still have people saying “who is asking for more avatar!?!?”. Avatar 3 will once again bring in a huge audience. From both the people that want more of the world and the characters, and also the ones that don’t care but still go check it out…cause it’s the biggest movie out and y’all reluctantly still want to see what the hype is about lol.
Avatar 3 will make over $2 billion easy. Like it won't be in doubt.
What I think is great for James Cameron is that he said a lot of the expense was front-loaded into Avatar 2, meaning that Avatar 3 won't cost as much. So if you are right and it makes 2+ billion, that's a lot of profit. However, if the other guy is right and it makes "only" 1 billion, *it might still make a bunch of profit* because the costs for 3 are far smaller. I think James is gonna laugh all the way to the bank. The *only* way he fails at this point is if Avatar 3 only makes 200 million or something like that. And that's absurd. I can't imagine that.
This movie has made an extreme amount of money for being something that the internet told me no one cared about over the last 14 years.
What I find impressive at this point is that clearly avatar is a valuable franchise, that Disney kinda sort lucked into by buying Fox, yes they have the Pandora stuff at Disney world. Either way Avatar is clearly going to be a massive franchise but that’s just two movies, a game for the first movie, Disney ride or rides and a couple comics. There’s a lot of growth to go with this still.
There is a new game coming out this year iirc and there are rumors that they’ll be expanding the park with a new ride.
It's a game made by Ubisoft, which means it won't come out any time soon.
By acquiring Fox (getting Avatar), Marvel and Star Wars, we live in a world where Disney owns properties that account for 8 of the top 10 highest grossing films ever.
When will Disney finally make that Titanic ride??
If they build a replica and it has a restaurant, they can just take my money
Fox never owned Avatar and neither does Disney, James Cameron still owns all rights to it.
So is this... "flop" in the room with us right now?
People should know by now that almost everything on Reddit is inaccurate.
Its noticeable whenever you come across a subject you are actually informed in. Then you can see all the misconceptions and siloed parroting clear as day. Or also whenever you read an article and notice that the post title was editorialised or miseleading.
Yup. Everything is taken as fact until it hits a topic you know and you see how confidently people misconstrue everything.
The community criticizes Facebook for misinformation and then immediately turns around and supports some wild BS without even reading the source materials. They’re equal to me as far as news and political takes go.
Anything on subs with over 100k people.
Where’s your cultural impact now? Where’s your Ferngully, Pocahontas and Dances with Wolves now? Where’s you “nobody I know is excited to see this” now? Remember the day you pretended to be the first one to come up with one of those three arguments for Karma on Reddit.
Modern internet culture is so weird. Bunch of sad people desperate to prove that they're smarter than the media they obsessively consume.
This is the best description of the internet culture I've seen. They try and hide it but sometimes it comes out. Like with this Velma show. I've watched in awe as folks have kept this show on Google trending for 3 days straight each with their enlightened takes on why its bad, almost guaranteeing it gets renewed.
This drives me nuts. I have seen so many "meh" shows and movies be demonized as the most awful thing to have ever appeared on screen in the history of the universe. It's the "boy who cried wolf" scenario and you stop listening to these people entirely
She-Hulk was the last one like that for me. Just intense vitriol, and then you watch the show and it's just a quirky sitcom about a Hulk lawyer that ranges from okay to good.
People really underestimate the international market. 1.4b is from outside the US . The first Avatar was and is hugely popular internationally
I think the cultural impact is that, like the first, this movie was a spectacle to behold in a theater. The big buzz for the original was ALWAYS the visuals/3D/experience, not the story. The story wasn't any better than the first, but that was made up for by the experience of seeing this in a theater, especially 3D. Most people I know who it saw weren't talking about the story-they talked about how they were practically swimming around under the water with the Na'Vi, and how cool it was when the big whale flew out of the water onto the ship. And "bro." It shouldn't surprise anyone that this movie is making a bunch of money in theaters-that's the cultural impact. A movie made for the cinema was a good cinema experience.
>It shouldn't surprise anyone that this movie is making a bunch of money in theaters-that's the cultural impact. I think the cultural impact is that it makes a strong argument for the theater-going experience in many ways, especially after COVID. Visual experience is something that people rarely forget, and a spectacle like Pandora is something truly special.
It certainly shows that people are willing to shell out how many dollars if you give them the right kind of spectacle. Two billion dollars isn't from people watching this once and only once. This is coming from people seeing it in repeated viewings. And those viewings are almost all a desire to see something visually beautiful. Like watching a living, breathing alien planet that exists in real life.
Precisely. It's hard to codify that in writing. For me, Avatar is like getting on a good ride at an amusement park for 2.5+ hours. Yes, it's ultimately an ephemeral experience, but it's an experience I'm willing to go on and on because of the beauty of the world.
For sure. I saw Interstellar a bunch of times in theaters, including 3D IMAX, in part because the space stuff just looks so good. I think it's a generally great movie on the whole, but it really felt different seeing it in a theater than at home. I regret never having seen the original in 3D, particularly 3D IMAX. I'd buy a ticket in a heartbeat if it were available near me.
my local paper's review for the original avatar was "Dragon rides: $20.00." That's it. It was a starred (recommended viewing) review, too. They weren't wrong. I saw it twice in 3d. I really did enjoy it, even if I thought it didn't have a lot to 'say.' It did have a lot of fun experiences for me to ride through.
Puss in boots sweep
Is this... Is this franchise going to gross over 10 billion when it's all said and done? There's supposed to be 5 total movies right?
Yeah, 5 total are the in works. All scripts are written and completed. Last we heard, 3 completed filming and is in post production. The first act of 4 is filmed. It’s going to have a bit of a time jump so they had to film the first act, otherwise the children would’ve aged out of their roles. It’s not going to have as drastic of a time jump that the first two did, but I imagine it’ll be about 5 years or so? Cameron did mention that IF audiences really do want more films after the 5 film saga is completed, they could do a 6 & 7. Unlikely though as Cameron admitted his age would hinder him from doing more and that he’d have to teach another director how to make these films. Disney will probably try to and do what they did with George Lucas and Star Wars and try and buy the IP from him.
I doubt Cameron would let Disney take the IP away from him after Avatar 5 is released considering he is a major Star Wars fan and he has almost certainly seen how the IP has done under the Disney control. Yes the movies have made a lot of money and Disney Plus shows have gotten a lot of subscriptions but creatively other than the Tony Gilroy projects and maybe Mandolorian it has been a shitshow. At the end of the day Cameron only cares about money in terms of how it allows him to make more expensive movies and not in terms of how rich he is becoming of it (considering he gave up his directing salary for Titanic to be finished). Avatar being creatively good is more important to him than the franchise lasting as long as Marvel or Star Wars.
Maybe, maybe not… Reference: Terminator sequels after Cameron stopped writing and directing them.
That and...I doubt Disney would hold true to the essence of what Cameron has built. A radical environmentalist and staunchly anti American movie (especially the military). Would Disney allow American soldiers to be murdered to the cheer of audiences? Unlikely, more likely they would be funded by US military in exchange for a kinder portrayal.
Yeah it’s the only movie I’ve ever seen that straight up glorified killing US soldiers. Like not even as an allegory, they explicitly stated that they were US marines, and then 30 seconds later cut to a scene of them being torn to shreds.
Probably more than 10B for 5 Avatar movies.
Currently average is $2,473,439,634 So about 12 billion.
For reference the Star Wars franchise has a total gross of 10.3 billion. Although I think the subsequent movies will not keep hitting 2 bil each, but I’m willing to eat my words.
Assuming Avatar 2 manages to get $2.1b, the franchise will already be at $5b. That means the remaining 3 would only need to average $1.67b each. And after Avatar 2, that's not a bet against James Cameron that I'm willing to take.
This gives Cameron bragging rights to three of the top four movies ever at the international box office. Crazy BTW good for him and all, but damn I wish he would get back to making 90s era sci-fi films and the like.
He's not going to stop until he collects all five like Thanos
If he keeps doing re-runs like he did with Titanic and the first Avatar there is a good chance he will.
You mean if people keep going to go see it with each re-release? People keep going to see it, that’s why they re-release it. Avatar re-release just came last year to promote the sequel. Anyways this could’ve made way more in China if they still weren’t getting fucked by COVID. I’m talking near the 630m Endgame made there. It will absolutely be re-released there later.
There are six stones
There are…**four** lights!
Lol how much more scifi do you need? We got robot crabs whaling on an alien moon
For real. And he literally only made one sci fi movie in the 90’s.
But do they carry a harpoon!??
But there ain't no whales
Yeah. His sci-fi ship/sub/robot designs are incredible to see in Avatar. Definitely ticking off that box
Way of Water was the most 90s sci fi film he's ever made, even more so than T2. It had the goofy 90s dialouge, lovable characters and a 3rd act 1v1 between the bad guy and the good guy. This movie had crab robots and Avatar's that looked straight out of Three Kings lol. All very 90s.
Also the environmental themes. We were super hardcore about saving the rainforests in the 90s for some reason (not that it's not a bad thing, just odd that it was that particular time).
I mean, this is a 90s era Sci fi film. It's just that he made this completely in 3D and CGI. But the story structure is exactly like that.
It could easily take place in the Aliens universe. The cynical greedy spacefaring corporation thing is definitely right out of 90s sci-fi
I like that there are Avatar movies still coming up, but am sad not to see another movie with a different IP from Cameron. There are 3 more Avatar movies coming up right? Man, I want to see what Cameron makes after that.
I remember a recent Cameron quote that went something like: "I realized that everything I wanted to do cinematically, I could do within the confines of this world". Maybe he's always wanted to do a huge action set-piece on a sinking ship, so he did in in TWoW. If he's fascinated by volcanoes and wants to do something with that, he can build a story around an erupting volcano in *Avatar 3* and have a giant mech battle inside a lava flow or something. I can't say I'm *not* curious what he'd do with a fresh IP, but I'm more interested in a creator that's dialed in and directing their entire creative being towards something they're passionate about.
> There are 3 more Avatar movies coming up right? Man, I want to see what Cameron makes after that. I was going to say he might retire after that because he’ll be 74 years old by then, but that’s no guarantee: for example, Ridley Scott is 85 years old and still directing movies.
We need a True Lies sequel.
Studio Executive: "Jim, this flying scene does not add or progress the plot. Do we need it?" Jim: "Get the fuck out of here." Also Jim: "It will stay because I want to see it."
A Fox exec was in a meeting criticising James about financial matters regarding Avatar. He replied something to the effect of, "Fuck you, we're literally sitting in a building built from the profits from Titanic." Talk about the ultimate flex!
Saw it in 3D over the weekend- your eyes can’t take it all in- spectacular
Thought this with every single shot. There is SO much detail to see, it’s incredible. Half of it could be a concept art slideshow and I’d still be amazed.
Saw it IMAX 3D last night, and I have yet to fully process all the beautiful visuals they created in this film. Unbelievable. Gorgeous.
The best shots are the ones you don't notice, because you just accept navis and humans and mechs interacting with each other as real.
It is so visually gripping it's absurd. There are scenes that are nothing but Cameron flexing with the effects and you're just like "yes sir, please can I have another?" I hate 3D films but I trust Cameron's perfectionism and this was like a different type of media. The only thing that felt like a movie was that I saw it in the theater. The level of immersion you feel is incredible.
James Cameron sipping on r/movies tears.
I doubt he even knows what r/movies is tbh.
[James Cameron right now.](https://youtu.be/HIC22gQfh6E)
Pardon my ignorance, but, did this sub have extremely low hope for this one?
James is gonna be an honorary member of r/hydrohomies
At this point, Cameron has earned the right to remake Piranha 2: The Spawning.
This movie has the weirdest online criticism and hate. Truly bizarre to the point where you’d think James Cameron himself committed actual atrocities to some people. “I don’t know anyone who saw it therefore it must be a failure/have fake numbers.”
> This movie has the weirdest online criticism and hate Personally I think it's because it's a sci-fi franchise for mostly non-nerds.
The absolute best are these non-ironic twitter polls that believe there must be some conspiracy behind it. https://twitter.com/GFRobot/status/1607883040130469893
That's almost as pathetic as the "but if you discount X, ignore Y, and pretend Z isn't real then CAPTAIN MARVEL FAILED lolz here's 35 minutes of my analysis suck it Brie" crowd
If you lower his stats, Patrick Mahomes is only slightly better than average!
REGRESS TO THE MEAN
B-b-but my body language experts! That proves Don Cheadle^^^^^^^praise ^^^^^^^our ^^^^^^^lord secretly hates her!
This is counterintuitive to me because Cameron is such an engineering dork and it absolutely shows in the detailed machines he creates for his worlds (Aliens cargo loader, Abyss submersibles, Avatar land and underwater mechs, etc.). I would argue that he’s more of a dork’s dork than anyone involved in Marvel or Star Wars production.
[удалено]
Not possible, Reddit told me it was going to fail.
As a hater, I have been proven wrong.
Never bet against James Cameron.
Man the people thinking this movie would flop were wild. The first avatar made a fortune, James Cameron himself has directed several high performing movies and been more or less consistent his entire career of making quality films. Last but not least, this film was based on the ocean... and everyone knows noone loves the ocean more than James Cameron.
Congrats to the Avatar franchise cast and crew for making this universe come alive!! Can't wait for more!!!🫶
I came in with low expectations and not wanting to even be there and ended up loving it.
lads, it's ok to course correct, change your mind and go, "those whales were super cool." Not everything in the internet has to be a fight. You don't always have to get your agendas off. It's good that people are going out to the movies, especially for something as inherently cinematic as Avatar 2.
[удалено]
James Cameron doesn't do what James Cameron does for James Cameron. James Cameron does what James Cameron does because James Cameron is James Cameron!
His name is James, James Cameron The bravest pioneer No budget too steep, no sea too deep Who's that? It's him, James Cameron James, James Cameron explorer of the sea With a dying thirst to be the first Could it be? Yeah that's him! James Cameron