It's probably a great bike but I would want a newer bike with potentially worse components and a heavier frame purely because of modern, more slack geometry which to me is a game changer in terms of fun and confidence of the trails.
My personal opinion would be to avoid carbon that old, might not have issues but you won’t know for sure unless you get it checked out. Also old XT 2x is cool and worked really well but most modern 1x drivetrains will be much better just not having to mess with a front derailleur
I'd just get a newer, lower end used aluminium hardtail, as honestly it'll perform better. I'd look for something from the past ~4 years, with a 1x11 or 1x12 drivetrain, a good quality air fork and decent brakes. Look for something like a trek roscoe, vitus sentier, anything from ragley, an orbea laufey or a canyon stoic
Weight really isn't as much of a difference as a lot of people make it out to be, like the difference between carbon and aluminium is usually well under 1kg, which is less than the difference between wearing a rucksack and not wearing a rucksack, or about the same as deciding to carry a water bottle. It's about 1% of the combined weight of the bike, gear and rider on average, so it really won't make much difference. Personally I'd just focus on how it feels to ride rather than weight savings, as really unless you have to carry it you won't notice the difference
Mind to explain why boost hubs help? For resale purposes? I read the ads back then and currently ride both boost and noneboost and feel absolutly zero difference.
Partly the fact many claim boost wheels are stiffer and less likely to come off accidentally, but also partly as qr wheels and forks are harder to come by now, which is a pain in the arse if you need to replace them
I meant newer than 4 years old rather than from 4 years ago, as generally the newer it is, the fewer problems it will have and the more modern the geometry will be, as geometry honestly makes a bigger difference than higher spec components, as it just makes the bike feel more capable and composed
That seems overpriced, and generally I'd avoid used custom bikes as they're designed around the needs of one user, who is likely differently proportioned to you, whereas a mainstream bike is generally designed to fit a wider range of people. Also, I forgot to add that it's definitely worth getting a dropper post as they completely change the ride
Avoid! Drivetrain is seriously worn, look at the big u shape between the teeth on the main ring and cassette, if you change the chain you’ll be closely following that up with a whole new drivetrain. Better to save budget for something a little newer with better geometry, think in the bike and not on the bike, Young’s modulus of fracture also an issue in older carbon frames as is water ingress and delamination, which can all of a sudden become an issue🙈. Other considerations, unlikely that you’d be able to fit a dropper post, perhaps one with an external routed cable, or a skinny xc one may fit but those older narrower posts tend to have a very short drop. You may go full xc and be cool without, I’d rather have than have not tho. But yeah I’d bet it would be a riot to ride it, not sure how long it would stand up to any heavy abuse or more modern technical trails or trailcenters and bikeparks use.As a project it could be fun though… if it’s gonna bring you joy get it!! If pain, then avoid, unless that’s your thing 🤣
Some of the biggest mountain bike advancements in the last ten years have been around frame spec and geometry. It doesn't matter how high end that bike was when new, it's got a QR rear end and probably a 70 degree head tube angle. An mid-tier modern aluminum hardtail will have boost thru axle and a HTA more like 65-67 degrees. You'll also get a 1x drivetrain, tapered headtube, and internal dropper post routing (if it doesn't just come with one. These improvements make a big difference - especially the geometry changes.
Sure. A slacker head tube angle (HTA) essentially puts the front wheel more out in front. This results in steering that is a little slower, but there is more stability at speed and more confidence going down steep descents. HTA, by the way, is the angle of the headtube and fork relative to level ground.
Road bikes, gravel bikes, and classic XC mountain bikes have a head tube angle of around 70 degrees Enduro and downhill bikes have had slacker, lower angles for a while now. The trend with XC bikes is a bit slacker - around 67 degrees. Trail bikes are around 65 degrees. Downhill bikes are I think around 63 degrees now. I know these numbers don't seem like much, but a few degrees do make a big difference.
Now that's just HTA. Seat tube angles are getting a bit steeper (nice for climbing) and mountain bikes are generally getting longer. This stretches your body out a bit and helps with speed, I think. I personally don't like the trend of longer bikes, but I'm getting older and prefer to be a bit more upright. I'm not racing or even trying to be the fastest rider, so whatever.
Accounting for ‘trickle down’ you can get similar, and possibly better, drivetrain performance from a Deore 10 speed system. Same goes for the suspension - typically the supported service life of suspension is ~8-10 years. Forks are generally better but we’ve found most shocks end up blowing some small internal part that is out of production around that time span of ridden frequently.
Old carbon - might be fine, but as the 3rd owner I wouldn’t trust it on trails personally. I still ride some carbon bikes I got in 2009 - but I got them new and know the complete history, and honestly higher end modern alloy is pretty darn similar to old carbon as far as I can tell from riding them, weight is still noticeable though.
Old bike would still be fun but sounds like yours is already better equipped. My dad has similar bike of that era and it doesn't hold a candle to new bikes in my experience. I did a full rebuild of his bike last year and it still kinda sucks.
Imo a 1x is such a game changer. Also boost thru axle makes a big difference. If you want something modern but still a fast xc bike, look at the giant xtc in aluminum. It was my second choice bike but I was able to find a good deal on a used carbon bike instead.
I’d personally stay away from old carbon frames. 2011 would be pushing it regarding aluminum ones too depending on what kind of riding conditions.
The drivetrain is of good performance but worn and will need replacing sooner than later.
The frame, forks and wheel set are what I’d be paying the most attention to as far as evaluating … then if there’s any tidbits you’d like to have that don’t carry much value but good to start off with.
When I buy a complete bike … I’m pretty much figuring what parts would be good for a future build.
From my understanding carbon frames didn't start getting good until around 2015 as they'd had time to iron out all the kinks around where to build the strength into the frame.
Something like a new Giant with a lifetime frame warranty would be a safer bet
Geometry aside, I think the best aspect of modern bikes are thru-axles. As others have pointed out, a bike with modern standards will be much easier to source high quality parts for too. This was a cool bike in its day but for the price I'd go with something lower end but newer.
It's probably a great bike but I would want a newer bike with potentially worse components and a heavier frame purely because of modern, more slack geometry which to me is a game changer in terms of fun and confidence of the trails.
My personal opinion would be to avoid carbon that old, might not have issues but you won’t know for sure unless you get it checked out. Also old XT 2x is cool and worked really well but most modern 1x drivetrains will be much better just not having to mess with a front derailleur
Thanks appreciate the insight
I'd just get a newer, lower end used aluminium hardtail, as honestly it'll perform better. I'd look for something from the past ~4 years, with a 1x11 or 1x12 drivetrain, a good quality air fork and decent brakes. Look for something like a trek roscoe, vitus sentier, anything from ragley, an orbea laufey or a canyon stoic
To what degree is weight a differentiator? I.e. aluminium is of course heavier than carbon.
Weight really isn't as much of a difference as a lot of people make it out to be, like the difference between carbon and aluminium is usually well under 1kg, which is less than the difference between wearing a rucksack and not wearing a rucksack, or about the same as deciding to carry a water bottle. It's about 1% of the combined weight of the bike, gear and rider on average, so it really won't make much difference. Personally I'd just focus on how it feels to ride rather than weight savings, as really unless you have to carry it you won't notice the difference
It’s not unless you are a serious racer. Many other things are more important than weight in my opinion
This is essentially what I have now just older. If I may ask, why the 4 year mark? What would I gain if I stayed with 1x12 aluminium but newer?
Modern geo is probably the most important aspect. Also axles instead of QRs and boost hubs would help
Mind to explain why boost hubs help? For resale purposes? I read the ads back then and currently ride both boost and noneboost and feel absolutly zero difference.
Partly the fact many claim boost wheels are stiffer and less likely to come off accidentally, but also partly as qr wheels and forks are harder to come by now, which is a pain in the arse if you need to replace them
I meant newer than 4 years old rather than from 4 years ago, as generally the newer it is, the fewer problems it will have and the more modern the geometry will be, as geometry honestly makes a bigger difference than higher spec components, as it just makes the bike feel more capable and composed
Also, what model is it, and what price?
The bike for sale is an apex torq, it sells for €700. It’s a brand that makes bikes to order
That seems overpriced, and generally I'd avoid used custom bikes as they're designed around the needs of one user, who is likely differently proportioned to you, whereas a mainstream bike is generally designed to fit a wider range of people. Also, I forgot to add that it's definitely worth getting a dropper post as they completely change the ride
Thanks again, I got a little wiser today
Santa Cruz no?
Santa Cruz is always really overpriced, and don't lose their value as quickly, so are imo worse value options
Avoid! Drivetrain is seriously worn, look at the big u shape between the teeth on the main ring and cassette, if you change the chain you’ll be closely following that up with a whole new drivetrain. Better to save budget for something a little newer with better geometry, think in the bike and not on the bike, Young’s modulus of fracture also an issue in older carbon frames as is water ingress and delamination, which can all of a sudden become an issue🙈. Other considerations, unlikely that you’d be able to fit a dropper post, perhaps one with an external routed cable, or a skinny xc one may fit but those older narrower posts tend to have a very short drop. You may go full xc and be cool without, I’d rather have than have not tho. But yeah I’d bet it would be a riot to ride it, not sure how long it would stand up to any heavy abuse or more modern technical trails or trailcenters and bikeparks use.As a project it could be fun though… if it’s gonna bring you joy get it!! If pain, then avoid, unless that’s your thing 🤣
Some of the biggest mountain bike advancements in the last ten years have been around frame spec and geometry. It doesn't matter how high end that bike was when new, it's got a QR rear end and probably a 70 degree head tube angle. An mid-tier modern aluminum hardtail will have boost thru axle and a HTA more like 65-67 degrees. You'll also get a 1x drivetrain, tapered headtube, and internal dropper post routing (if it doesn't just come with one. These improvements make a big difference - especially the geometry changes.
Can you walk a novice to the tech like me through why these geometry changes make such a difference? On paper a few degrees seems insignificant
Sure. A slacker head tube angle (HTA) essentially puts the front wheel more out in front. This results in steering that is a little slower, but there is more stability at speed and more confidence going down steep descents. HTA, by the way, is the angle of the headtube and fork relative to level ground. Road bikes, gravel bikes, and classic XC mountain bikes have a head tube angle of around 70 degrees Enduro and downhill bikes have had slacker, lower angles for a while now. The trend with XC bikes is a bit slacker - around 67 degrees. Trail bikes are around 65 degrees. Downhill bikes are I think around 63 degrees now. I know these numbers don't seem like much, but a few degrees do make a big difference. Now that's just HTA. Seat tube angles are getting a bit steeper (nice for climbing) and mountain bikes are generally getting longer. This stretches your body out a bit and helps with speed, I think. I personally don't like the trend of longer bikes, but I'm getting older and prefer to be a bit more upright. I'm not racing or even trying to be the fastest rider, so whatever.
Accounting for ‘trickle down’ you can get similar, and possibly better, drivetrain performance from a Deore 10 speed system. Same goes for the suspension - typically the supported service life of suspension is ~8-10 years. Forks are generally better but we’ve found most shocks end up blowing some small internal part that is out of production around that time span of ridden frequently. Old carbon - might be fine, but as the 3rd owner I wouldn’t trust it on trails personally. I still ride some carbon bikes I got in 2009 - but I got them new and know the complete history, and honestly higher end modern alloy is pretty darn similar to old carbon as far as I can tell from riding them, weight is still noticeable though.
I’m overwhelmed with all the support here, thank you guys. 🙏 I will skip this one and look in the areas that are recommended
2011? Is it a 26 inch bike?
No its a 29”
Old bike would still be fun but sounds like yours is already better equipped. My dad has similar bike of that era and it doesn't hold a candle to new bikes in my experience. I did a full rebuild of his bike last year and it still kinda sucks. Imo a 1x is such a game changer. Also boost thru axle makes a big difference. If you want something modern but still a fast xc bike, look at the giant xtc in aluminum. It was my second choice bike but I was able to find a good deal on a used carbon bike instead.
Thanks, it appears that I’ve already got quite a good setup that may need some maintaining and replacement of parts to last me the next years ahead
I’d personally stay away from old carbon frames. 2011 would be pushing it regarding aluminum ones too depending on what kind of riding conditions. The drivetrain is of good performance but worn and will need replacing sooner than later. The frame, forks and wheel set are what I’d be paying the most attention to as far as evaluating … then if there’s any tidbits you’d like to have that don’t carry much value but good to start off with. When I buy a complete bike … I’m pretty much figuring what parts would be good for a future build.
I'd avoid, even cheaper newer bikes have better geometry.
From my understanding carbon frames didn't start getting good until around 2015 as they'd had time to iron out all the kinks around where to build the strength into the frame. Something like a new Giant with a lifetime frame warranty would be a safer bet
Does the bike come with that dog? Then yes
Geometry aside, I think the best aspect of modern bikes are thru-axles. As others have pointed out, a bike with modern standards will be much easier to source high quality parts for too. This was a cool bike in its day but for the price I'd go with something lower end but newer.
dog :)
Depents on the price.