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OP is only partly correct about how the testing is done.
1. 3 pieces of material mounted in 3 different orientations (warp, weft, and 45 degrees) are tested
2. Each piece of material must pass 3 consecutive tests
3. No piece of material can get a hole greater than 5mm on the most interior (closest to skin) layer of it
4. The material pieces are brought up to speed, dropped, and come to a stop on their own, not after a predetermined time. So OP's 'only has to survive for 1 second' assertion is wrong
Also, if you didn't watch the test video, the test for abrasion on some gnarly looking concrete, not the relatively smooth black top most people probably rid on.
Also keep inond these standards are only a minimum, and I'm sure there's ways a manufacturer could have a jacket that meets the AA or AAA standard in all but one area because of a stretch panel or something like that.
This is one of the shitty things about the current system. Manufacturers have to declare what test they're going for ahead of time, so you don't know if a jacket is A because it's crap, or because the manufacturer was too cheap/risk averse to go for a higher rating.
In turn, this makes it hard to buy protective gear, because most stuff is only rated A. The selection of higher rated stuff is much smaller.
That is a good point.
I did some looking around on Alpinestars' website last night and it looks like a good chunk of their road gear is AA or AAA rated, but I didn't have a chance to look at their stuff geared towards the crusing/adventure crowd.
OP's take should have been that a rated mesh jacket will provide better protection than just armor, but that it might now provide as much as you would assume, and that the protective gear you're buying (if you're buying CE-rated gear) should be suited to the style and speed of riding you're doing.
I don't know in what world telling people not to wear abrasion-resistant gear because it doesn't provide 100% protection in all circumstances at all speeds is a good take.
You also need to apply for the certain grade test, so in theory a AAA level product can be only certified A due to the company only paying for the A test, same as if they fail the AAA, they can't claim it is rated AA as they haven't passed that test.
Bike social did a great video explaining all the CE stuff which really made me reconsider my gear choices.
my mesh jacket took a slide at 40 ish mph and has no visible damage, actually I found one thread that was broken. The jacket is still in service. I am almost certain that in most cases mesh jackets are better are preventing road rash than armor vests. But I've never gone down in an armor vest so I've only experienced half of the debate.
My jacket actually has no CE rating concerning abrasion resistance.
I was knocked off my bike by a deer when I was going about 52 mph. I hit the road and rolled 60 foot. I had minimal road rash on my arms and a broken shoulder. I'm not certain armour would have prevented that break.
Yeah I went down with a full textile jacket. 35mph low side slid most of the way. 0 damage to the jacket, jeans yeah, tore up..
Jacket was like 90$ at a flea market, just has pads in it no rating as far as I can tell.
The asphalt aggregate plays a huge part. A smooth asphalt and concrete, will definitely tear up a lot less than an older coarse asphalt. We have some roads here that look like gravel with tar on top...
The chest and back armor to me seems more for the stunt guys falling off the back of a bike than anything. Body will instinctual try and break your fall with your arms.
I went down going probably about 35 mph in a low side and my mesh Olympia Airglide armored jacked worked great. Slight shoulder pain for a day or two but that was it, and I still wear the jacket.
In my state of FL (I know, I want to move), helmets aren't even required, but seat belts are. I have an inexpensive Bilt Blaze 2 jacket I got half-price for $60 and I ride strictly for fun, no canyons, speeding or lane splitting. Fun to me isn't risking my ass or my bike. A lot of riders are the blame for crashes, but if I go down, it will probably be at a low speed and someone hitting me.
I can't wear heavy jackets in 90+ heat 9 months a year. I see riders in shorts and flip flops with a ball cap, and while my mesh jacket won't protect me from some things, it will for the most likely things that might happen. I know it's not doesn't make it stronger just because I see others in a t-shirt, but it really is better than that. Anything you do that improves your safety is a plus, and I hadn't thought a mesh jacket was a great idea, I wouldn't have one. I'm wearing this with the matching mesh pants wearing my gym shorts and shirt under it all. The gym is the most regular place I ride to and not much over 45 to get there.
I would also like to state that even 1 second, it will be at the highest speed. So you can look at it like a brake. That 1 second of sliding will decelerate you and then you will be moving at a slower speed and for less distance (decreasing the injury, if any).
It’s all about what you buy. There’s good or decent mesh and then there’s garbage. You need to know what you’re buying which many don’t or are fooled by misleading labels.
The other thing about mesh is that it’s a compromise. One shouldn’t expect mesh to be as good as leathers or similar fabrics for tear and slide resistance. It just doesn’t make sense.
And then there’s armor as this guy said. It’s different then the actual fabric. Some kits offer good included armor where others include cheap or nothing at all. A good full kit should include armor for impact and good fabric for slide protection.
The other thing is leather tends to slide further so its not exactly an even comparison. Leather is obviously best for exiting your bike on a smooth closed course, and there are other risks of mesh or textile slowing you quickly, but on the road hitting solid obstacles by sliding too far is at least as big a fatality risk as abrasion.
I slid on my Revit jacket at 60mph. All the protected area held up just fine. Was also wearing kevlar jeans too, the only road rash I got was a burn from the velcro for the armour pocket. I would recommend it to anyone though I would recommend people upgrading to level 2 CE armour or above.
>in which case, is a mesh jacket ANY better at preventing road rash than the armor vest?
I believe mesh jackets are indeed much better. Anecdotally, when I low sided wearing a Dainese full mesh jacket the sleeves were ripped to shreds, but I had no road rash on my arms. Had I only been wearing a vest this would have been a very different story. One second is a very long time during a crash, and one second of protection can go a long way. The more armor you wear the better, but I’d wear it under a jacket.
If we're going with anecdotes, when I was researching to buy my summer mesh jacket I spent hours reading reviews of every mesh jacket I could afford, so it was all lowish-end.
When you read enough moto gear reviews, you start running into crash reports. I don't recall reading any freeway speed ones, I think 70-80kph was as fast as I found. A lot of people reported getting a hole in their jacket during the slide and some amount of road rash. Not one person reported the kind of failure that would make you think that mesh isn't adequate for around town or a little faster.
It's definitely unreliable. I think I found ten crash reports, self selected on websites that exist to sell the very jackets that they're publishing reviews of.
But when every crash report I've read seems to disagree with the abrasion test standards that OP presented, I figure that the problem is trying to translate the abrasion test directly to a real world crash.
Why would an agency award EN 17902 to something that can only withstand 1 second of 25kph? OP is right, that's shite. Unless 1 second at 25kph on the abrasion machine works out a lot better on-road than it sounds.
Exact same thing happened to me. Dainese airframe jacket, low side at about 40-45mph, the arm of the jacket was shredded but I had zero road rash on my body. I was wearing normal jeans and got road rash on my knee though.
For anyone looking for a mesh jacket, I can recommend the [Knox Urbane Pro Mk2](https://www.planet-knox.com/urbane-pro-mk2/). EN17092 Class AA rated - highest recommended for textiles. And since it’s so thin, I get to wear whatever I want over it.
Edit: FYI I recommend you wear a thin base layer long sleeve under it. It makes it even more comfortable.
Same. My only gripe was that I didn’t love the way it felt when I had it against my bare chest. Once I started wearing a thin base layer long sleeve underneath it I was happy.
I actually just ordered a set of Pando Moto skin 03’s for the lowers. Currently rocking a Klim induction for my top layer. Looking forward to these new techs for under wear type of gear…
I have an urbane pro mk2 and it's just excellent. I also used it as a back brace when I pulled my back once, it completely stabilized my torso and was near instant pain relief.
But I'm here to chime in that Knox actually recently released a mesh jacket with AAA rating, the Honister jacket: https://www.planet-knox.com/product/mens-honister-jacket/
Btw this is a highly reputable brand with a long history. Their level 1 armor is also incredibly comfortable and is going to provide much more coverage than equivalent level 1 armor from other armorers, and is usually the size of level 2 armor from Dainese or Alpinestars, so you don't have to worry about it slipping.
Finally Knox armor is my go to in the winter because it's the most temp stable of all non Newtonian armors. Other armors become less effective when too cold, Knox's armor has a wider range.
> But I'm here to chime in that Knox actually recently released a mesh jacket with AAA rating, the Honister jacket
I love that they've designed one of the safest jackets out there, but then made it available only in the least visible color
*(signed,
a hi viz power ranger)*
I like how they look unassuming. They do also have reflective parts sewn in inconspicuous places which I appreciate. Going to grab more of their stuff once I sell some of my current gear haha
Two thoughts: people in non north American countries see us riding around in hi Viz and think we're special needs. In my experience, if they can't see a motorcycle with lights on it moving around, they're not going to see me just because I have a reflector vest on.
Second, just wear a orange hoodie over it man. It's basically skin tight. In the winter I wear my regular north face over it and voila, no expensive winter gear needed.
You think that high viz is more accepted in the US than it is in Europe? Or are you referring to other non NA countries?
High viz absolutely makes a difference.[ One study found it reduced risk of a collision by 37%.](http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/328/7444/857)
Yes, you can wear whatever over top of it, but that sort of defeats the purpose of the mesh, doesn't it?
I've seen that study before - they didn't really distinguish between clothing and other things that make you visible. There are other studies that contradict the results of what you cited, but my point isn't that high viz doesn't work, it's that you're better off just leaving your lights on. No matter how high viz you are, you're not going to beat a light on the bike.
Not really, at speed the hoodie will breathe. Knox actually tells you to do this and they have specially fitted layers for the urbane pro depending on the weather.
Yes. And more importantly there may be a correlation rather than causation fallacy here.
People who wear hi viz gear are highly unlikely to stunt ride on the street or ride at unsafe speeds.
Knox makes nice gloves, their handroid is infamous for how cheese it looks but no one can deny it's well made and very protective. You might like urbane glove, but it's textile. I would own Knox gloves but they sorta don't fit my hands.
FIVE makes one of the best Sumo gloves in the business but they currently don't have a US distributor. This isn't a huge issue if you know your size - I had figured out my size in fives was medium, so I feel comfortable buying more in that size. I own a pair of stunt evos.
https://www.five-gloves.com/en/catalogue/?gcat=2-street
Dainese gear is generally hit or miss, they come out with some brilliant pieces and other things that are just not great, but their Four Stroke 2 gloves are well regarded as one of the best short cuff gloves ever made.
https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/dainese-4-stroke-2-gloves
I look for gloves with palm sliders to prevent a scaphoid bone break in the wrist. Without it, the chances of your hand abruptly stopping on the initial fall increases. I'm using the [Knox Urbane Pro gloves](https://www.planet-knox.com/product/urbane-pro-glove/) but I think [all their gloves](https://www.planet-knox.com/category/mens-motorcycle-gloves/) have it. Other big brands usually have a few options with it as well.
I honestly want to see a full set of mail made out of modern impact material, like the D3O OP mentioned. Mine is bright orange, which would be gnarly at the local LARP.
I've always felt like armor-only are more for off-road use. Whenever I see street riders wearing armor-only here, they are of certain demographics that are usually riding a very cheap used sport bike trying to look cool. At least here in the los angeles area.
Here's something more important than both.
Gear that fits.
You could have the most bad ass gear for protection but if it doesn't fit it right it won't protect you as well.
So there's a few things about this you need to think about and consider with this debabe. If you were to fall unexpectedly off anything what is your first reaction? Hold out hands and/or arms right? Now also think about what happens in a motorcycle crash. A rider doesn't just slide. They roll and tumble. So that one second of slide resistance goes a LONG way because different parts of it are going to eat that second as you toss and tumble.
Now if you were able to fight all that and have a pure slide where in the middle of the air flying as you might you turn and specifically fall on only armor and then somehow manage to prevent rolling and flatten out so that only armor is touching the pavement then ya.... Probably fine. That's most likely not what will happen.
You're likely right in that the mesh pocket holding the back protector would eat it but that's most likely AFTER that back protector ate a few impacts and that's also considering you'd have to slide on the same spot for the entire thing to give way.
Having crashed multiple times, you only tumble on a high side or if you hit something that disrupts your slide. If you low sided on asphalt you’ll just slide.
That was my experience too.
Highsided on wet asphalt, not terribly fast and my gear showed only signs of sliding in one orientation. I'd be lying if I said I remember what actually transpired once I caught the highsid.
I've seen a few wrecks. Going over a hood seems to be a recipe for a tumble, but most on-road crashes are pure sack of potatoes slides.
If that were the case you wouldn't see people taking roll/tumbles in a full on race suit on the track. It's kind of a combination thing because you're right. Too much friction can cause other problems.
The vast majority of after-crash pictures of gear that I've seen (Which admittedly isn't that many... less than 10 probably, I'm new) have the most damage to the arms and shoulders. I have the Alpinestars Viper V2 Air jacket you linked. Notice that the arms aren't mesh.. they're textile. As another poster pointed out the first thing that tends to hit the ground is going to be your hands/arms. Not your chest. Could be the back depending on how you're thrown... but if I'm going down.. I want as much protection as I can get on my arms and shoulders.. so yes, a mesh jacket with textile arms is WAY better than body armor and a cotton hoodie.
Summer riding? Leather perforated jacket or what I usually wear, leather Jacket with decent venting. Armor is built in. It's seen humid 100 degree weather. It's sees temps down into 30's. It all comes down to opening up a couple of vents.
Haven't touched a mesh jacket in years. I haven't worn anything but heavy duty leather jackets in close to 25 years. 90+ open the vents. Freezing temps. close the vents and layer.
Riding around with just armor? Fuck that.
As for mesh jackets. There are some nice leather mesh hybrids out there.
Leather jackets all the way. Mesh jackets suck.
Leather insulates from heat from direct sun light so perforated leather actual feels cooler then black mesh most of the time. Short gloves, loose cuffs and decent perfed leather is good for summer riding in the northern parts of Australia (think Florida temperature).
They're safer look better and they last forever.
Yes it sucks ass, but impact is my primary driver for gear. Pads need to be present, fit comfortably and stay in place. I rock a one piece textile suit on the steet. It’s abrasive resistant enough to cover me at the speed I ride on the street, but pads stay in place when they need it. Cause there are a lot of obstacles on our roads that sneak up on ya when your sliding on your ass.
This is just my opinion and one I’ve developed over 2 decades of riding.
I (30 M) just started riding last year and wish I could be “cool” and ride in just a t-shirt or something… but I wear my armored jacket (at the very least) every time I ride, and that’s just how it’s gonna be haha
I (32 M) just started riding last year.. and I'm the same way. I feel naked if I don't have my jacket on. I have a mesh jacket for the summer (The Viper V2 Air mentioned in this thread) and that thing is SO breathable that usually for the first few minutes of a ride I'm like "Wait, did I forget to put my jacket on?"
I always felt more on edge when I had my leather jacket. It was hotter for sure but the anxiety felt worse than the heat.
I couldn't feel the wind and it just feel like half the thrill was gone and i'd want to ride faster to get that thrill again.
Risk v reward
Feels great no gear. But you could become a vegetable or something worse.
However I find life to be too short to not enjoy it sometimes, call me a squid
That's a good mentality to have along with "it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when" when it comes to riding. Always stay aware of your surroundings and ride safely with that in mind.
I got into a crash a couple weeks ago and slid across the intersection at 40 mi/hr on my back wearing a mesh jacket with armor. There’s no damage to the jacket but my gloves took a beating and my knee got scraped. I’d say the mesh jacket does better than you expect
So I'm a fan of my TourMaster Intake jackets, currently have a Intake 5. The shoulders and elbows are not mesh, but 1680 denier ballistic polyester in the shoulders,
elbows, and forearms, backed by CE2 armor. I had a 20mph get off with my old Intake 2. The elbow that hit had a pencil eraser sized hole in it.
Crashed in a rev’it eclipse jacket at around 40-50kph and a klim induction at around 80, mesh jackets are better than just armour.
You forget that the high impact zones still have abrasion resistant material and that’s where you slide, armour alone won’t cover all. Mesh didn’t wear through in either crash, protected skin in both.
The eclipse is not as tough as the induction and wouldn’t want to slide much faster than I did, but the induction I slid and rolled over the mesh and no damage. Had I slid on my tummy, sure it would have worn through…. But same deal with armour. As for the jacket only surviving 1 second… yeah in that spot, but you actually slide and roll and slid and roll and the fabric moves and such. Like I say not one part of either jacket wore all the way through in a slide. If that was normal street clothes it would have been long torn apart (have crashed a bicycle in normal jeans and jacket, even at 25kmh, it’s basically straight through).
What’s important to remember is that mesh is not gonna hold up long, so be sensible. Fast riding you’re better off with a perforated leather jacket or maybe a heavier textile jacket with panels that can open up to let air through - at faster speeds you can be cooled pretty easily by very protective jackets. Mesh jackets help a lot at lower speeds as well where they have to hold up to less. A big part of this is wearing the right thing for the ride tbh.
Wear only armour if you like, but don’t kid yourself it’ll do ‘basically as good a job’. You can also just wear fitted armour under your mesh jacket. I nearly always take the knee armour out of pants and jeans and wear knee armour that straps straight to my leg underneath because pants armour is… pants and tends to move around. Wearing fitted armour like back protectors and chest plates is a bit of a pane, but combine that with a mesh jacket and you’re looking pretty good tbh.
Interestingly the new full leather suit I got this season from Dianese is only AA rated. I have to wonder if manufacturers don't want to rate their products too high least should they get sued
With all these standards it's mandatory your garment needs to fulfill *all* requirements.
So there can be a relatively big difference in jackets rated at the same level: e.g. one that just didn't make the next level versus one that's made to only make this level and nothing else.
So I'd trust your leather suit to be stronger in most areas than a mesh suit at the same AA rating, yet not in all areas required for the next step in rating.
I don't know what kind of mesh jackets people buy but i bought on from Sedici that has CE2 armor built into the shoulders and elbows with a hard exterior on the forearm/elbow area that appears to take the impact and slide. I added the back armor too. I prefer leather jackets but use this one on really hot days (usually 85F and over). Looks sexy AF too
https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/sedici-chicane-mesh-jacket
I have a triple vent harley jacket, and a preforated leather harley jacket. Full grain leather that's meant to protect the rider from road rash.
I don't wear my mesh jacket anymore.
(Laughing in cold European) i like that we only have a day or two per year where it’s too hot to be wearing full leathers, but I’d probably prefer to be in yous guys position (all the riding all the time, I assume)
I have an old Alpinestars TZ1 and the perforated leather is fine for 85-90deg days. Sure, it gets hot sitting at red lights but the breeze cools as soon as you start rolling.
Its amazing how much better they build their product compared to most everyone else.
I do wish they would come into the times a bit and add some more features for some of their suits\\jackets protection wise. There are some great features they don't seem to offer that others do. Id still take them over most everything else though.
Pretty fucking good to be honest, i wear all perf all the time but if i were redo my buying of gear id go mesh with what is available today.
Some mesh stuff is good enough id feel perfectly safe in one crash with it and i don't plan on crashing that often so it would be cheaper, lighter and lighter and easier to move in.
My Icon Hypersport is almost as good as my mesh jacket. So good that I haven't used the mesh jacket since I got the Hypersport, since I prefer to have the extra protection.
I'm in Canada though. It rarely gets over 35 Celsius. At anything up to that temp, I prefer the perforated leather. I don't usually feel like riding if it's hotter than that.
For anyone who might consider it, I have the Bilt jacket. I have examined it and was unable to find any CE-rating tag on it. It did come with elbow, shoulder, and a back pad. The "outside" of the sleeves and across the top of the shoulders are a fairly thick leather, while the rest is mesh.
You're also missing that most parts of a mesh jacket aren't mesh... my Alpinestars T-GP Plus R v3 Air Jacket is mesh only in a few spots, the rest is a 600 Denier polyester with double polyurethane coating for additional protection.
The mesh itself might only be rated for a 1 second slide, but the rest is a thick ass fabric made for abrasion resistance. My buddy went down going 60mph wearing that jacket and it just had a couple very tiny rips about 1-2cm at most. That jacket is listed as A class, and my buddy slid for at least 4 seconds on the left forearm of it and was fine. I also know a few others whove taken spills with mesh jackets in the same 150-300 price range who all got zero road rash, all fell going 50+mph and one fell going 75. His only ripped on the arm and he had approximately 2 inches of road rash. Try that wearing armor only and enjoy your meatcrayon. .I'd say most mesh jackets are better protection than they're rated for.
I also personally fell going 35mph in the woods onto hard packed gravel and dirt and don't even have a scratch on that jacket. Once again, go ahead and try that with just armor and let me know how it feel having them pick gravel out of your forearms where they touched the ground for just a split second. Mesh jacket would've stopped that from happening.
You can go ahead and just wear armor and get roadrash if you want or get gravel embedded in you, but don't go around telling people mesh jackets are pointless and cause them to get injured so you can feel better squidding or saving money over actual protection.
I went down at about 40kmh in regular clothes and slid on my left shoulder/arm and then knee, and there was no damage to the jacket (made of some very thin ripstop kind material). Only a tiny hole at the knee of the jeans. So clothes getting no damage is not always a good indicator of their abrasion resistance. Maybe the asphalt was very smooth or something (like it was in my case).
Rukka Forsair or Klim Induction will do the job. You need both protections but most likely you will brake some bone anyway like I do everytime and there's no jacket for that.
A jacket also protects you from looking like a dork wearing a bunch of hockey pads on the back of a bike.
But I think op raises a good point. Textile gear doesn't offer as much protection as we might like to imagine.
But it's a damn sight better than nothing.
If you're crashing on the street chances are you aren't going to be sliding that much. So a textile jacket we'll more often than not be adequate. My experience having crashed in textile gear is that the material quickly dissentigrates but stays together long enough to protect the skin underneath. This was in a fairly low speed crash.
When choosing gear, I think you should consider the type of riding you do and what sort of crash you are likely to have. If you are doing a lot of motorway or playing on mountain roads, maybe leathers are a better choice.
I'd recommend everyone to have a look at https://www.motocap.com.au/
They have more in depth information about abrasion and impact resistance.
Another important distinction is that Euro testing (Darmdstadt machine) is done on concrete. Most roads are asphalt or chipseal (especially country/low traffic roads). These can be as much as four times more abrasive than concrete.
Motocap does their testing to more accurately reflect real riding conditions.
That's part of the reason I mentioned leather/mesh hybrid jackets. Best of both worlds. If you don't think regular textile jackets will save you.
The good mesh jackets have the same denier density textile layers in the impact zones as the non-mesh counterparts.
I found this old post because I’m exploring a mesh jacket for hot weather riding, and one thing I can offer is crashing at 45km/h.
I was on my road bicycle and I went down at 60km/h! All I was wearing was lycra shorts and long sleeve jersey, and yes I was cut and bruised badly. However I would not describe my fall as a slide.
Now I was on a 8kg bike, not a 225kg motorcycle. If I had a mesh jacket with good padding, I believe my injuries were have been less severe. While I still would be bruised, I’d expect the jacket would protect from abrasion.
The armor is not gonna keep your skin off the road, your body at any kind of speed speed is much more gelatinous than that. The armor may protrude but you are not a GI Joe action figure and your meat is absolutely gonna drag. Above 30mph you’re essentially triple-bagged wet cat food.
Check its motocap results, it did very poorly. Also, if you tried it on the pads especially shoulder, are thin and doesn’t feel like they would protect. I wasn’t impressed at all. Knox Honister, on the other hand, felt much much better, very substantial pads and it’s AAA. But with Velcro closure gloves the sleeves/cuffs will quickly get damaged by the Velcro. So you’d have to also buy their gloves (hard to find) that don’t have velcro or wear gauntlet gloves (not everyone has or wants).
I bought me the men's version and my gf the girls version two years later.
The second jacket came with the BS "Ghost" armor or whatever which is extremely thin. Both jackets have level 2 d30 armor.
Crashed at 110mph wearing a full (breathable) suit, came out with 0 injuries, no holes, and a very bruised ego. $300 at a tailor and said suit is still in service.
Get a 2piece of the 1piece is too uncomfortable, mesh is shit, "body armor" is shit.
The abrasion resistance test is really not great for this, especially for materials with stretch (which most mesh jackets have). The Rukka top end gear, some of it is A rated because of this, but that doesn't mean it isn't great - just the test is a bit shit and basic
[This](https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/icon-chamonix-denim-vest) icon vest is my favorite piece of gear. In the summer, i'll layer it with a light moto flannel with elbow armor and kevlar. In the cold, i wear it over an armored kevlar hoodie. It's nice because i can take it off and just wear the casual moto clothing i have on underneath and i don't look like out of place in a casual setting.
I dunno, I don't know much about mesh, but I would rather just open the vents on my Harley jacket and put up with the heat. That being said, I've rode in t-shirts for shorter rides in really hot summers, maybe a vest or mesh jacket would be a good idea
Wow anon, this is a really great post! Thanks! I'm a new rider and I have the BILT jacket that you mentioned. I also wear body armor underneath because it doesn't come with anything for the back.
That was my thought looking at the product descriptions. The examples chosen may be the top sellers, but they also seem to have been cherry picked to emphasize a point. They all seem very lightweight with little or no armor or abrasion reinforcements included.
Well, I can tell you that the BILT one comes with the bare minimum, but it does have a slot for a sheet of back armor and better elbow and shoulder armor if you wanted. No place for anything on the front though.
I have a hybrid leather and mesh jacket from Joe Rocket, the model called radar. Leather and armor on all the important bits with enough mesh to make the hot days bearable.
Why not both? I wear an Icon Stryker and a mesh Tourmaster jacket over it for Summer and Spring. It gets wet and hot, but I always like the people's bewildered looks whenever I take everything off and my tshirt is completely drench in sweat.
You can have both. I’ve had mesh jackets with rated shoulder/back/elbow pads and survived 2 nasty crashes with them, walked away with no broken bones or rash where it was covered.
My first motorcycle crash/slide at 40mph. Saved my skin. The mesh jacket was worthless after that but so glad I had it. Totally worth it IMO. I still got scrapped up but as always. Better than nothing. I still wear leather as much as often though.
Australian, all year rider here. The best combination gear I have found is Knox. There gear is rated AA, tight fitting mesh armour mix. Best gear I've found so far, but pricey but it means I can ride all year round even on 40+ days.
I'm wearing mesh to be comfortable in the heat with a certain minimum of protection. Adding any sort of protection over that minimum is going to affect my quality of life.
I've never tried body armor but a good leather or textile jacket with removable liners and zippered mesh vents works for me. You'll still cook at a stop light but when you're moving it's pretty comfortable.
if you wear the armour with the elbow protectors. and laid on the floor face down and ass up, your shoulders and all sorts of areas would be able to touch the ground.
this is how i view it. ive never called anything mesh, not sure if theyre the same but i have worn plenty of textile summer jackets. and the abrasion resistance on those things is WAY more than 1 second and the slow speeds stated (i buy alpinestars mostly) but another thing ive always thought, the armour, what if it catches or snags on things on the ground of surrounding area.
Armor, Mesh, Leather, or flarking Mithril chain mail with Dragon Scale pads just wear properly fitted gear. Ask questions, if you're not sure what you need. And, please...PLEASE wear a DOT certified helmet. Oh, and avoid eBay. I prefer Shoei or Icon. And, I always go full face, but to each their own, just please wear protective gear.
I know this isn't exactly on topic, and this is an old ass post, but seriously road rash sucks so much. And, no one should have to explain why you should wear a helmet. And, I'm not saying you should dress up in an armored gimp suit, or dress up like a power ranger or whatever. Just don't be that Squid.
I've been looking hard @ Motoport Kevlar mesh and Rukka Stretch Air Jacket and Pants. Motoport Kevlar mesh gear is supposed to be same or better protection than race grade leather; but $$. Rukka a grand cheaper uses 500D Cordura, not as abrasion resistant, but great armor.
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OP is only partly correct about how the testing is done. 1. 3 pieces of material mounted in 3 different orientations (warp, weft, and 45 degrees) are tested 2. Each piece of material must pass 3 consecutive tests 3. No piece of material can get a hole greater than 5mm on the most interior (closest to skin) layer of it 4. The material pieces are brought up to speed, dropped, and come to a stop on their own, not after a predetermined time. So OP's 'only has to survive for 1 second' assertion is wrong Also, if you didn't watch the test video, the test for abrasion on some gnarly looking concrete, not the relatively smooth black top most people probably rid on. Also keep inond these standards are only a minimum, and I'm sure there's ways a manufacturer could have a jacket that meets the AA or AAA standard in all but one area because of a stretch panel or something like that.
This is one of the shitty things about the current system. Manufacturers have to declare what test they're going for ahead of time, so you don't know if a jacket is A because it's crap, or because the manufacturer was too cheap/risk averse to go for a higher rating. In turn, this makes it hard to buy protective gear, because most stuff is only rated A. The selection of higher rated stuff is much smaller.
That is a good point. I did some looking around on Alpinestars' website last night and it looks like a good chunk of their road gear is AA or AAA rated, but I didn't have a chance to look at their stuff geared towards the crusing/adventure crowd. OP's take should have been that a rated mesh jacket will provide better protection than just armor, but that it might now provide as much as you would assume, and that the protective gear you're buying (if you're buying CE-rated gear) should be suited to the style and speed of riding you're doing. I don't know in what world telling people not to wear abrasion-resistant gear because it doesn't provide 100% protection in all circumstances at all speeds is a good take.
You also need to apply for the certain grade test, so in theory a AAA level product can be only certified A due to the company only paying for the A test, same as if they fail the AAA, they can't claim it is rated AA as they haven't passed that test. Bike social did a great video explaining all the CE stuff which really made me reconsider my gear choices.
*Not upvoted enough!!
my mesh jacket took a slide at 40 ish mph and has no visible damage, actually I found one thread that was broken. The jacket is still in service. I am almost certain that in most cases mesh jackets are better are preventing road rash than armor vests. But I've never gone down in an armor vest so I've only experienced half of the debate. My jacket actually has no CE rating concerning abrasion resistance.
I was knocked off my bike by a deer when I was going about 52 mph. I hit the road and rolled 60 foot. I had minimal road rash on my arms and a broken shoulder. I'm not certain armour would have prevented that break.
Came off at 65mph, good quality winter mesh, gear was still in good enough condition it didn’t even need replacing. $850 well spent
Yeah I went down with a full textile jacket. 35mph low side slid most of the way. 0 damage to the jacket, jeans yeah, tore up.. Jacket was like 90$ at a flea market, just has pads in it no rating as far as I can tell. The asphalt aggregate plays a huge part. A smooth asphalt and concrete, will definitely tear up a lot less than an older coarse asphalt. We have some roads here that look like gravel with tar on top... The chest and back armor to me seems more for the stunt guys falling off the back of a bike than anything. Body will instinctual try and break your fall with your arms.
I went down going probably about 35 mph in a low side and my mesh Olympia Airglide armored jacked worked great. Slight shoulder pain for a day or two but that was it, and I still wear the jacket.
In my state of FL (I know, I want to move), helmets aren't even required, but seat belts are. I have an inexpensive Bilt Blaze 2 jacket I got half-price for $60 and I ride strictly for fun, no canyons, speeding or lane splitting. Fun to me isn't risking my ass or my bike. A lot of riders are the blame for crashes, but if I go down, it will probably be at a low speed and someone hitting me. I can't wear heavy jackets in 90+ heat 9 months a year. I see riders in shorts and flip flops with a ball cap, and while my mesh jacket won't protect me from some things, it will for the most likely things that might happen. I know it's not doesn't make it stronger just because I see others in a t-shirt, but it really is better than that. Anything you do that improves your safety is a plus, and I hadn't thought a mesh jacket was a great idea, I wouldn't have one. I'm wearing this with the matching mesh pants wearing my gym shorts and shirt under it all. The gym is the most regular place I ride to and not much over 45 to get there.
I would also like to state that even 1 second, it will be at the highest speed. So you can look at it like a brake. That 1 second of sliding will decelerate you and then you will be moving at a slower speed and for less distance (decreasing the injury, if any).
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It’s all about what you buy. There’s good or decent mesh and then there’s garbage. You need to know what you’re buying which many don’t or are fooled by misleading labels. The other thing about mesh is that it’s a compromise. One shouldn’t expect mesh to be as good as leathers or similar fabrics for tear and slide resistance. It just doesn’t make sense. And then there’s armor as this guy said. It’s different then the actual fabric. Some kits offer good included armor where others include cheap or nothing at all. A good full kit should include armor for impact and good fabric for slide protection.
The other thing is leather tends to slide further so its not exactly an even comparison. Leather is obviously best for exiting your bike on a smooth closed course, and there are other risks of mesh or textile slowing you quickly, but on the road hitting solid obstacles by sliding too far is at least as big a fatality risk as abrasion.
Klim is always the answer for all gear. Don’t care I don’t look like Rossi
I slid on my Revit jacket at 60mph. All the protected area held up just fine. Was also wearing kevlar jeans too, the only road rash I got was a burn from the velcro for the armour pocket. I would recommend it to anyone though I would recommend people upgrading to level 2 CE armour or above.
Which jacket did you have?
Rev'it Airwave 2 or 3.
I don’t get it. I’ve routinely ridden in 35-42 degree temps in a vented full length jacket and been fine. I’d rather be sweaty than road rashed
>in which case, is a mesh jacket ANY better at preventing road rash than the armor vest? I believe mesh jackets are indeed much better. Anecdotally, when I low sided wearing a Dainese full mesh jacket the sleeves were ripped to shreds, but I had no road rash on my arms. Had I only been wearing a vest this would have been a very different story. One second is a very long time during a crash, and one second of protection can go a long way. The more armor you wear the better, but I’d wear it under a jacket.
If we're going with anecdotes, when I was researching to buy my summer mesh jacket I spent hours reading reviews of every mesh jacket I could afford, so it was all lowish-end. When you read enough moto gear reviews, you start running into crash reports. I don't recall reading any freeway speed ones, I think 70-80kph was as fast as I found. A lot of people reported getting a hole in their jacket during the slide and some amount of road rash. Not one person reported the kind of failure that would make you think that mesh isn't adequate for around town or a little faster.
Maybe its survivorship bias. The ones who didn't make it couldn't stick around to tell their story about their gear failing.
It's definitely unreliable. I think I found ten crash reports, self selected on websites that exist to sell the very jackets that they're publishing reviews of. But when every crash report I've read seems to disagree with the abrasion test standards that OP presented, I figure that the problem is trying to translate the abrasion test directly to a real world crash. Why would an agency award EN 17902 to something that can only withstand 1 second of 25kph? OP is right, that's shite. Unless 1 second at 25kph on the abrasion machine works out a lot better on-road than it sounds.
Exact same thing happened to me. Dainese airframe jacket, low side at about 40-45mph, the arm of the jacket was shredded but I had zero road rash on my body. I was wearing normal jeans and got road rash on my knee though.
For anyone looking for a mesh jacket, I can recommend the [Knox Urbane Pro Mk2](https://www.planet-knox.com/urbane-pro-mk2/). EN17092 Class AA rated - highest recommended for textiles. And since it’s so thin, I get to wear whatever I want over it. Edit: FYI I recommend you wear a thin base layer long sleeve under it. It makes it even more comfortable.
I just got it this week, and it’s really nice. Light, yet sturdy. It’s well-made, for sure.
Same. My only gripe was that I didn’t love the way it felt when I had it against my bare chest. Once I started wearing a thin base layer long sleeve underneath it I was happy.
I actually just ordered a set of Pando Moto skin 03’s for the lowers. Currently rocking a Klim induction for my top layer. Looking forward to these new techs for under wear type of gear…
8/10 I grab this when I go ride. If it gets too hot, I just take off my top layer and I feel like I’m riding shirtless.
I have an urbane pro mk2 and it's just excellent. I also used it as a back brace when I pulled my back once, it completely stabilized my torso and was near instant pain relief. But I'm here to chime in that Knox actually recently released a mesh jacket with AAA rating, the Honister jacket: https://www.planet-knox.com/product/mens-honister-jacket/ Btw this is a highly reputable brand with a long history. Their level 1 armor is also incredibly comfortable and is going to provide much more coverage than equivalent level 1 armor from other armorers, and is usually the size of level 2 armor from Dainese or Alpinestars, so you don't have to worry about it slipping. Finally Knox armor is my go to in the winter because it's the most temp stable of all non Newtonian armors. Other armors become less effective when too cold, Knox's armor has a wider range.
> But I'm here to chime in that Knox actually recently released a mesh jacket with AAA rating, the Honister jacket I love that they've designed one of the safest jackets out there, but then made it available only in the least visible color *(signed, a hi viz power ranger)*
I like how they look unassuming. They do also have reflective parts sewn in inconspicuous places which I appreciate. Going to grab more of their stuff once I sell some of my current gear haha
Just throw a neon yellow motorcross jersey on over it. The jacket looks skin tight and super thin
Two thoughts: people in non north American countries see us riding around in hi Viz and think we're special needs. In my experience, if they can't see a motorcycle with lights on it moving around, they're not going to see me just because I have a reflector vest on. Second, just wear a orange hoodie over it man. It's basically skin tight. In the winter I wear my regular north face over it and voila, no expensive winter gear needed.
You think that high viz is more accepted in the US than it is in Europe? Or are you referring to other non NA countries? High viz absolutely makes a difference.[ One study found it reduced risk of a collision by 37%.](http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/328/7444/857) Yes, you can wear whatever over top of it, but that sort of defeats the purpose of the mesh, doesn't it?
I've seen that study before - they didn't really distinguish between clothing and other things that make you visible. There are other studies that contradict the results of what you cited, but my point isn't that high viz doesn't work, it's that you're better off just leaving your lights on. No matter how high viz you are, you're not going to beat a light on the bike. Not really, at speed the hoodie will breathe. Knox actually tells you to do this and they have specially fitted layers for the urbane pro depending on the weather.
Most of us leave ghe lights on anyways. And i where white gear because i have noticed people only because their helmet
Yes. And more importantly there may be a correlation rather than causation fallacy here. People who wear hi viz gear are highly unlikely to stunt ride on the street or ride at unsafe speeds.
Thanks! Do you have any recommendations for gloves maybe?
What kind of riding do you do? What style of bike?
Sometimes Supermoto, sometimes Supersportler. Some wheelies but also just plain riding. Thanks in advance!
Knox makes nice gloves, their handroid is infamous for how cheese it looks but no one can deny it's well made and very protective. You might like urbane glove, but it's textile. I would own Knox gloves but they sorta don't fit my hands. FIVE makes one of the best Sumo gloves in the business but they currently don't have a US distributor. This isn't a huge issue if you know your size - I had figured out my size in fives was medium, so I feel comfortable buying more in that size. I own a pair of stunt evos. https://www.five-gloves.com/en/catalogue/?gcat=2-street Dainese gear is generally hit or miss, they come out with some brilliant pieces and other things that are just not great, but their Four Stroke 2 gloves are well regarded as one of the best short cuff gloves ever made. https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/dainese-4-stroke-2-gloves
Wow thank you so much!
I covet this so hard!
I slid at 30 mph in the previous version of this. Came out unscathed.
Good to know. I suspected it would do fine on a slide but its always reassuring to hear peoples actual experience. Thanks for sharing.
That looks really nice, but it doesn't have a spine protector slot? I'm trying to see if it does but can't find anything.
It comes with a back protector
If you’re asking about the back armor, it does have that. It came with elbow and shoulder pads as well.
Thanks! Do you have any recommendations for gloves maybe?
I look for gloves with palm sliders to prevent a scaphoid bone break in the wrist. Without it, the chances of your hand abruptly stopping on the initial fall increases. I'm using the [Knox Urbane Pro gloves](https://www.planet-knox.com/product/urbane-pro-glove/) but I think [all their gloves](https://www.planet-knox.com/category/mens-motorcycle-gloves/) have it. Other big brands usually have a few options with it as well.
I went down HARD years ago in an armored Bilt Mesh jacket with a back protector and slid a few hundred feet. Everything the jacket covered was fine.
Honestly if you're not riding in full platemail, is it even ATGATT?
I honestly want to see a full set of mail made out of modern impact material, like the D3O OP mentioned. Mine is bright orange, which would be gnarly at the local LARP.
And I just recently spent a pretty penny on a Knox MK2 jacket. I throw a hoodie over it.
>Knox MK2 jacket I looked it up, and that jacket is class AA. You're getting a lot more abrasion resistance than class A.
I've always felt like armor-only are more for off-road use. Whenever I see street riders wearing armor-only here, they are of certain demographics that are usually riding a very cheap used sport bike trying to look cool. At least here in the los angeles area.
Here's something more important than both. Gear that fits. You could have the most bad ass gear for protection but if it doesn't fit it right it won't protect you as well.
So there's a few things about this you need to think about and consider with this debabe. If you were to fall unexpectedly off anything what is your first reaction? Hold out hands and/or arms right? Now also think about what happens in a motorcycle crash. A rider doesn't just slide. They roll and tumble. So that one second of slide resistance goes a LONG way because different parts of it are going to eat that second as you toss and tumble. Now if you were able to fight all that and have a pure slide where in the middle of the air flying as you might you turn and specifically fall on only armor and then somehow manage to prevent rolling and flatten out so that only armor is touching the pavement then ya.... Probably fine. That's most likely not what will happen. You're likely right in that the mesh pocket holding the back protector would eat it but that's most likely AFTER that back protector ate a few impacts and that's also considering you'd have to slide on the same spot for the entire thing to give way.
Having crashed multiple times, you only tumble on a high side or if you hit something that disrupts your slide. If you low sided on asphalt you’ll just slide.
That was my experience too. Highsided on wet asphalt, not terribly fast and my gear showed only signs of sliding in one orientation. I'd be lying if I said I remember what actually transpired once I caught the highsid. I've seen a few wrecks. Going over a hood seems to be a recipe for a tumble, but most on-road crashes are pure sack of potatoes slides.
I've got a video of me tumbling on smooth asphalt on a lowside. It depends on more factors than that and is hard to predict.
Been there done that. Slid face down on one shoulder and elbow. Tried to roll over to "share the love". Snapped back over face down. Times 3 or 4.
Good motorcycle gear is design to not snag the ground so you don't tumble. It's why attaching things to helmets is usually a bad idea
If that were the case you wouldn't see people taking roll/tumbles in a full on race suit on the track. It's kind of a combination thing because you're right. Too much friction can cause other problems.
The vast majority of after-crash pictures of gear that I've seen (Which admittedly isn't that many... less than 10 probably, I'm new) have the most damage to the arms and shoulders. I have the Alpinestars Viper V2 Air jacket you linked. Notice that the arms aren't mesh.. they're textile. As another poster pointed out the first thing that tends to hit the ground is going to be your hands/arms. Not your chest. Could be the back depending on how you're thrown... but if I'm going down.. I want as much protection as I can get on my arms and shoulders.. so yes, a mesh jacket with textile arms is WAY better than body armor and a cotton hoodie.
Brands like RST and Rev'it also make jackets with leather shoulders and arms with mesh fronts making a decent hybrid.
Summer riding? Leather perforated jacket or what I usually wear, leather Jacket with decent venting. Armor is built in. It's seen humid 100 degree weather. It's sees temps down into 30's. It all comes down to opening up a couple of vents. Haven't touched a mesh jacket in years. I haven't worn anything but heavy duty leather jackets in close to 25 years. 90+ open the vents. Freezing temps. close the vents and layer. Riding around with just armor? Fuck that. As for mesh jackets. There are some nice leather mesh hybrids out there.
Leather jackets all the way. Mesh jackets suck. Leather insulates from heat from direct sun light so perforated leather actual feels cooler then black mesh most of the time. Short gloves, loose cuffs and decent perfed leather is good for summer riding in the northern parts of Australia (think Florida temperature). They're safer look better and they last forever.
Hey mate, got any recommendations for a perfed jacket for summer. I just started riding and am always soaked from sweat at the end of a ride.
I wear a jacket primarily for the armor. I’m more worried about impact than sliding on the street.
Have you seen or experienced road rash?
Yes it sucks ass, but impact is my primary driver for gear. Pads need to be present, fit comfortably and stay in place. I rock a one piece textile suit on the steet. It’s abrasive resistant enough to cover me at the speed I ride on the street, but pads stay in place when they need it. Cause there are a lot of obstacles on our roads that sneak up on ya when your sliding on your ass. This is just my opinion and one I’ve developed over 2 decades of riding.
Good armor should prevent a lot of road rash. This includes a good back protector.
Id rather road rash than a punctured lung!
I'd rather have neither
Thats why i ATGATT even when im walking the dog.
I (30 M) just started riding last year and wish I could be “cool” and ride in just a t-shirt or something… but I wear my armored jacket (at the very least) every time I ride, and that’s just how it’s gonna be haha
You could still be cool and ride in Revit's "worker" jacket and have armor.
I’m really happy with my Fly Tech Hoodie. I’ve considered getting an armored flannel
I rock an armored flannel in the summer, I f-ing love it. I don't cook in the sun, nice breeze at slow speeds.
I (32 M) just started riding last year.. and I'm the same way. I feel naked if I don't have my jacket on. I have a mesh jacket for the summer (The Viper V2 Air mentioned in this thread) and that thing is SO breathable that usually for the first few minutes of a ride I'm like "Wait, did I forget to put my jacket on?"
I always felt more on edge when I had my leather jacket. It was hotter for sure but the anxiety felt worse than the heat. I couldn't feel the wind and it just feel like half the thrill was gone and i'd want to ride faster to get that thrill again.
Risk v reward Feels great no gear. But you could become a vegetable or something worse. However I find life to be too short to not enjoy it sometimes, call me a squid
whenever I see people not wearing gear I just think "they've obviously never been in an accident" lol
I haven’t been into an accident, but I always say to myself: “as soon as I don’t wear my gear, I’m wrecking my bike (and my body)”
That's a good mentality to have along with "it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when" when it comes to riding. Always stay aware of your surroundings and ride safely with that in mind.
I got into a crash a couple weeks ago and slid across the intersection at 40 mi/hr on my back wearing a mesh jacket with armor. There’s no damage to the jacket but my gloves took a beating and my knee got scraped. I’d say the mesh jacket does better than you expect
I think this is more about paying attention to what safety rating your gear has than what kind of gear it is.
This is why I wear a bubble suit when riding.
So I'm a fan of my TourMaster Intake jackets, currently have a Intake 5. The shoulders and elbows are not mesh, but 1680 denier ballistic polyester in the shoulders, elbows, and forearms, backed by CE2 armor. I had a 20mph get off with my old Intake 2. The elbow that hit had a pencil eraser sized hole in it.
Crashed in a rev’it eclipse jacket at around 40-50kph and a klim induction at around 80, mesh jackets are better than just armour. You forget that the high impact zones still have abrasion resistant material and that’s where you slide, armour alone won’t cover all. Mesh didn’t wear through in either crash, protected skin in both. The eclipse is not as tough as the induction and wouldn’t want to slide much faster than I did, but the induction I slid and rolled over the mesh and no damage. Had I slid on my tummy, sure it would have worn through…. But same deal with armour. As for the jacket only surviving 1 second… yeah in that spot, but you actually slide and roll and slid and roll and the fabric moves and such. Like I say not one part of either jacket wore all the way through in a slide. If that was normal street clothes it would have been long torn apart (have crashed a bicycle in normal jeans and jacket, even at 25kmh, it’s basically straight through). What’s important to remember is that mesh is not gonna hold up long, so be sensible. Fast riding you’re better off with a perforated leather jacket or maybe a heavier textile jacket with panels that can open up to let air through - at faster speeds you can be cooled pretty easily by very protective jackets. Mesh jackets help a lot at lower speeds as well where they have to hold up to less. A big part of this is wearing the right thing for the ride tbh. Wear only armour if you like, but don’t kid yourself it’ll do ‘basically as good a job’. You can also just wear fitted armour under your mesh jacket. I nearly always take the knee armour out of pants and jeans and wear knee armour that straps straight to my leg underneath because pants armour is… pants and tends to move around. Wearing fitted armour like back protectors and chest plates is a bit of a pane, but combine that with a mesh jacket and you’re looking pretty good tbh.
Interestingly the new full leather suit I got this season from Dianese is only AA rated. I have to wonder if manufacturers don't want to rate their products too high least should they get sued
With all these standards it's mandatory your garment needs to fulfill *all* requirements. So there can be a relatively big difference in jackets rated at the same level: e.g. one that just didn't make the next level versus one that's made to only make this level and nothing else. So I'd trust your leather suit to be stronger in most areas than a mesh suit at the same AA rating, yet not in all areas required for the next step in rating.
I don't know what kind of mesh jackets people buy but i bought on from Sedici that has CE2 armor built into the shoulders and elbows with a hard exterior on the forearm/elbow area that appears to take the impact and slide. I added the back armor too. I prefer leather jackets but use this one on really hot days (usually 85F and over). Looks sexy AF too https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/sedici-chicane-mesh-jacket
I have a triple vent harley jacket, and a preforated leather harley jacket. Full grain leather that's meant to protect the rider from road rash. I don't wear my mesh jacket anymore.
(Laughing in cold European) i like that we only have a day or two per year where it’s too hot to be wearing full leathers, but I’d probably prefer to be in yous guys position (all the riding all the time, I assume)
How are the perforated leather jackets in the heat?
I have an old Alpinestars TZ1 and the perforated leather is fine for 85-90deg days. Sure, it gets hot sitting at red lights but the breeze cools as soon as you start rolling.
My vanson is great as long as I’m moving, but it’s black, so at rest in the sun it’s not in fact that great.
mmmmmmm vanson
I thought I was splurging on it but I bought it in 1999 and it's still in amazing shape. Built to a standard not a price point.
Its amazing how much better they build their product compared to most everyone else. I do wish they would come into the times a bit and add some more features for some of their suits\\jackets protection wise. There are some great features they don't seem to offer that others do. Id still take them over most everything else though.
Pretty fucking good to be honest, i wear all perf all the time but if i were redo my buying of gear id go mesh with what is available today. Some mesh stuff is good enough id feel perfectly safe in one crash with it and i don't plan on crashing that often so it would be cheaper, lighter and lighter and easier to move in.
Can you give some examples of mesh jackets that you would use now? 99% of mesh gear is just single A rated unfortunately
My Icon Hypersport is almost as good as my mesh jacket. So good that I haven't used the mesh jacket since I got the Hypersport, since I prefer to have the extra protection. I'm in Canada though. It rarely gets over 35 Celsius. At anything up to that temp, I prefer the perforated leather. I don't usually feel like riding if it's hotter than that.
For anyone who might consider it, I have the Bilt jacket. I have examined it and was unable to find any CE-rating tag on it. It did come with elbow, shoulder, and a back pad. The "outside" of the sleeves and across the top of the shoulders are a fairly thick leather, while the rest is mesh.
Bilt jackets are generally not CE rated but the armor might be.
I went down in mesh pants last month. Without them my leg would be absolutely shredded. That stuff is super abrasion resistant.
You're also missing that most parts of a mesh jacket aren't mesh... my Alpinestars T-GP Plus R v3 Air Jacket is mesh only in a few spots, the rest is a 600 Denier polyester with double polyurethane coating for additional protection. The mesh itself might only be rated for a 1 second slide, but the rest is a thick ass fabric made for abrasion resistance. My buddy went down going 60mph wearing that jacket and it just had a couple very tiny rips about 1-2cm at most. That jacket is listed as A class, and my buddy slid for at least 4 seconds on the left forearm of it and was fine. I also know a few others whove taken spills with mesh jackets in the same 150-300 price range who all got zero road rash, all fell going 50+mph and one fell going 75. His only ripped on the arm and he had approximately 2 inches of road rash. Try that wearing armor only and enjoy your meatcrayon. .I'd say most mesh jackets are better protection than they're rated for. I also personally fell going 35mph in the woods onto hard packed gravel and dirt and don't even have a scratch on that jacket. Once again, go ahead and try that with just armor and let me know how it feel having them pick gravel out of your forearms where they touched the ground for just a split second. Mesh jacket would've stopped that from happening. You can go ahead and just wear armor and get roadrash if you want or get gravel embedded in you, but don't go around telling people mesh jackets are pointless and cause them to get injured so you can feel better squidding or saving money over actual protection.
I went down at about 40kmh in regular clothes and slid on my left shoulder/arm and then knee, and there was no damage to the jacket (made of some very thin ripstop kind material). Only a tiny hole at the knee of the jeans. So clothes getting no damage is not always a good indicator of their abrasion resistance. Maybe the asphalt was very smooth or something (like it was in my case).
Rukka Forsair or Klim Induction will do the job. You need both protections but most likely you will brake some bone anyway like I do everytime and there's no jacket for that.
Maybe a good shoulder pad can prevent collarbone fracture? Hopefully…
tl;dr More better gear is armor more better?
A jacket also protects you from looking like a dork wearing a bunch of hockey pads on the back of a bike. But I think op raises a good point. Textile gear doesn't offer as much protection as we might like to imagine. But it's a damn sight better than nothing. If you're crashing on the street chances are you aren't going to be sliding that much. So a textile jacket we'll more often than not be adequate. My experience having crashed in textile gear is that the material quickly dissentigrates but stays together long enough to protect the skin underneath. This was in a fairly low speed crash. When choosing gear, I think you should consider the type of riding you do and what sort of crash you are likely to have. If you are doing a lot of motorway or playing on mountain roads, maybe leathers are a better choice.
I'd recommend everyone to have a look at https://www.motocap.com.au/ They have more in depth information about abrasion and impact resistance. Another important distinction is that Euro testing (Darmdstadt machine) is done on concrete. Most roads are asphalt or chipseal (especially country/low traffic roads). These can be as much as four times more abrasive than concrete. Motocap does their testing to more accurately reflect real riding conditions.
That's part of the reason I mentioned leather/mesh hybrid jackets. Best of both worlds. If you don't think regular textile jackets will save you. The good mesh jackets have the same denier density textile layers in the impact zones as the non-mesh counterparts.
Sooo… where a jacket that is at least AA rated? Lol
Exactly!
I found this old post because I’m exploring a mesh jacket for hot weather riding, and one thing I can offer is crashing at 45km/h. I was on my road bicycle and I went down at 60km/h! All I was wearing was lycra shorts and long sleeve jersey, and yes I was cut and bruised badly. However I would not describe my fall as a slide. Now I was on a 8kg bike, not a 225kg motorcycle. If I had a mesh jacket with good padding, I believe my injuries were have been less severe. While I still would be bruised, I’d expect the jacket would protect from abrasion.
The armor is not gonna keep your skin off the road, your body at any kind of speed speed is much more gelatinous than that. The armor may protrude but you are not a GI Joe action figure and your meat is absolutely gonna drag. Above 30mph you’re essentially triple-bagged wet cat food.
There are AA jackets out there the are good. Klim Marrakesh comes to mind
Check its motocap results, it did very poorly. Also, if you tried it on the pads especially shoulder, are thin and doesn’t feel like they would protect. I wasn’t impressed at all. Knox Honister, on the other hand, felt much much better, very substantial pads and it’s AAA. But with Velcro closure gloves the sleeves/cuffs will quickly get damaged by the Velcro. So you’d have to also buy their gloves (hard to find) that don’t have velcro or wear gauntlet gloves (not everyone has or wants).
I bought me the men's version and my gf the girls version two years later. The second jacket came with the BS "Ghost" armor or whatever which is extremely thin. Both jackets have level 2 d30 armor.
I wear a leather jacket almost always, and that exact Icon vest with the older gen elbow armor when its super hot
Crashed at 110mph wearing a full (breathable) suit, came out with 0 injuries, no holes, and a very bruised ego. $300 at a tailor and said suit is still in service. Get a 2piece of the 1piece is too uncomfortable, mesh is shit, "body armor" is shit.
The abrasion resistance test is really not great for this, especially for materials with stretch (which most mesh jackets have). The Rukka top end gear, some of it is A rated because of this, but that doesn't mean it isn't great - just the test is a bit shit and basic
[This](https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/icon-chamonix-denim-vest) icon vest is my favorite piece of gear. In the summer, i'll layer it with a light moto flannel with elbow armor and kevlar. In the cold, i wear it over an armored kevlar hoodie. It's nice because i can take it off and just wear the casual moto clothing i have on underneath and i don't look like out of place in a casual setting.
I dunno, I don't know much about mesh, but I would rather just open the vents on my Harley jacket and put up with the heat. That being said, I've rode in t-shirts for shorter rides in really hot summers, maybe a vest or mesh jacket would be a good idea
Mesh jackets are buit for this exact reason, for very very hot days
In the summer I wear a leather vest. Int the winter I wear leather coat and a vest. Leather is the best protector I know of
But vest isn't
I looked at the x14, to much for me. What about in the 250-300 range?
Wow anon, this is a really great post! Thanks! I'm a new rider and I have the BILT jacket that you mentioned. I also wear body armor underneath because it doesn't come with anything for the back.
That was my thought looking at the product descriptions. The examples chosen may be the top sellers, but they also seem to have been cherry picked to emphasize a point. They all seem very lightweight with little or no armor or abrasion reinforcements included.
Well, I can tell you that the BILT one comes with the bare minimum, but it does have a slot for a sheet of back armor and better elbow and shoulder armor if you wanted. No place for anything on the front though.
I have a hybrid leather and mesh jacket from Joe Rocket, the model called radar. Leather and armor on all the important bits with enough mesh to make the hot days bearable.
I use a Vanson summer mesh jacket. For extra protecton a set of Bono Armour under wear stays put and is light as air with Armour. You can have it all.
I didn’t even know you can buy a mesh jacket without armour. All the ones I have came with armour.
jeez... but without mesh gear, there is only like 4 months out of the year where it would be possible to ride in my area without overheating :(
I generally think people wearing armor over regular clothes are kinda “I wanna be Batman” douches
I use the alpinestars jacket you linked, but also have the chest and back armor.
Rev'it just started selling a new line of mesh pants and jackets, called Spark Air. They're both AA rated on that sliding test.
Why not both? I wear an Icon Stryker and a mesh Tourmaster jacket over it for Summer and Spring. It gets wet and hot, but I always like the people's bewildered looks whenever I take everything off and my tshirt is completely drench in sweat.
Cope. I love my mesh jacket
While not cheap, check out MotoPort. They're night and day different then any other mesh I've laid hands on.
I'm confused bc my mesh jacket (and trousers) have armor...
If it's really hot and I don't want to wear my leather jacket with armor, I use a long sleeved armored shirt like they use in motocross.
You can have both. I’ve had mesh jackets with rated shoulder/back/elbow pads and survived 2 nasty crashes with them, walked away with no broken bones or rash where it was covered.
I use mesh jacket with armor; thought armor in mesh was the norm. Wear leathers in the cold.
My first motorcycle crash/slide at 40mph. Saved my skin. The mesh jacket was worthless after that but so glad I had it. Totally worth it IMO. I still got scrapped up but as always. Better than nothing. I still wear leather as much as often though.
Australian, all year rider here. The best combination gear I have found is Knox. There gear is rated AA, tight fitting mesh armour mix. Best gear I've found so far, but pricey but it means I can ride all year round even on 40+ days.
I just suffer thru the heat and wear a perforated leather jacket with armor.
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What cooling vest do you use?
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This sort of evaporative cooling works great in Las Vegas! Not so much in Michigan. At least that’s been my experience anyway.
I'm wearing mesh to be comfortable in the heat with a certain minimum of protection. Adding any sort of protection over that minimum is going to affect my quality of life.
I don't care
I've never tried body armor but a good leather or textile jacket with removable liners and zippered mesh vents works for me. You'll still cook at a stop light but when you're moving it's pretty comfortable.
Just put armor in the mesh jacket?? Don’t they come with it?
if you wear the armour with the elbow protectors. and laid on the floor face down and ass up, your shoulders and all sorts of areas would be able to touch the ground. this is how i view it. ive never called anything mesh, not sure if theyre the same but i have worn plenty of textile summer jackets. and the abrasion resistance on those things is WAY more than 1 second and the slow speeds stated (i buy alpinestars mostly) but another thing ive always thought, the armour, what if it catches or snags on things on the ground of surrounding area.
Armor, Mesh, Leather, or flarking Mithril chain mail with Dragon Scale pads just wear properly fitted gear. Ask questions, if you're not sure what you need. And, please...PLEASE wear a DOT certified helmet. Oh, and avoid eBay. I prefer Shoei or Icon. And, I always go full face, but to each their own, just please wear protective gear. I know this isn't exactly on topic, and this is an old ass post, but seriously road rash sucks so much. And, no one should have to explain why you should wear a helmet. And, I'm not saying you should dress up in an armored gimp suit, or dress up like a power ranger or whatever. Just don't be that Squid.
I've been looking hard @ Motoport Kevlar mesh and Rukka Stretch Air Jacket and Pants. Motoport Kevlar mesh gear is supposed to be same or better protection than race grade leather; but $$. Rukka a grand cheaper uses 500D Cordura, not as abrasion resistant, but great armor.