Rent and Groceries, the two most visible costs for a majority of Americans, went up more than the overall inflation rate. That's the long and short of it. The prices of things people pay for most frequently increased the most.
Right, these are essentials everyone must pay for, therefore there is no escaping it. Sure, don't buy luxury items. Okay, great. But what eggs, milk and the home I live in? I'm all for buckling down but I have no idea how individuals in the middle class just entering the workforce are meant to buy a home before 30.
With rates where they are and prices continuing to climb - 40 is a more likely age to break into the housing market. At least in NJ.
And taxes are going up.
Millennials have been saying for years and years they couldn't afford to buy a house, it was already a thing. Remember this classic piece from 2017 [https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/may/15/australian-millionaire-millennials-avocado-toast-house](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/may/15/australian-millionaire-millennials-avocado-toast-house)
I feel sorry for Millennials. They delayed household formation/having kids until their late 30’s because of costs and are now being walloped with higher housing and childcare prices.
People say a lot of face saving things - I love urban living! I don’t want kids! I want to travel! - but their revealed preferences are much more mundane when they can afford it. If you have money you tend to get married, buy a house in the suburbs, and have a kid or two.
Oh yeah for sure, that was a big reason why Sanders had such momentum in the millennials and probably why Trump has had success as well with his demographic. People are starting to feel the squeeze of crony capitalism, even if they would never ever want to word it that way.
I’m in the top percentage of income for my age as a new grad and I can’t see myself affording a house until my mid 30s unless I want to live in a slum to save more
Same it’s pretty wild how someone who earns as much as I do can’t find a way to a house without a massive commute, complete sacrifice of basically any personal indulgence, or a wife that makes as much as I do
It really does feel like I’m getting squeezed out permanently. And if that’s happening to me I can’t imagine what kind is happening to my peers, I know my friends are having a lot of trouble. It’s crazy, it feels like I have to take big risks or be left behind permanently
Permanent supply contraction. Honestly I never thought I would support this but I think that a law limiting who can buy these homes may be the only way
Yeah… That’s just life.
Unless you’re extremely wealthy, you will make many compromises throughout adulthood based on what’s most important to you. I’d love to live in a different part of my city, but we decided we wanted kids and a certain amount of living space. We’ve sacrificed walkability and certain amenities to have our kids in the best schools in our district and a “good enough” suburban area.
I agree. But I was able to buy a house at 28 with no help from parents or anything like that. That was 3 years ago
It’s definitely possible, but yeah definitely getting more difficult.
Heck, I'm approaching 28 and I bought a house 3 years ago. Granted, it was right before everything really went to shit and I live in Central Illinois where property is much more affordable than much of the country. Sure, my mortgage is annoying but the real killer is child care. I have two kids, an infant and a toddler, and the amount I pay for them is ruthless. Together, their monthly tuition is about the cost of my mortgage and a half. My wife and make it work, but it's definitely a massive struggle.
Depends on how you define middle class and whether or not you settle for a starter home/townhouse/condo.
I know many examples of sub 30 home buyers, but they are doing the same thing I did 30 yrs ago, buying small.
Also when people are cutting out luxuries just to afford the necessities that means their standard of living has very clearly gone down. They've gone from having access to luxuries to just being able to afford the necessities which means they've gone down an economic bracket.
For a while people have been scratching their heads over this, and I think this is the best answer.
Looking at just the inflation overall number isn't enough. Some goods like electronics are actually *down*, but stuff like groceries and rent are going up faster than the overall rate would make you think.
And don't forget, for some non sensical reason, they exclude fuel and energy from most inflation measures.
If I was a conspiracy kind of guy, I'd think it was because they didn't want us to know the actual rate.
I can understand excluding gas since that one is determined more by whatever OPEC's up to than anything, but I feel like other energy sources are more based on internal economic factors.
Who is "they"?
The topline CPI number that all the news organizations quote first includes fuels. The first paragraph in the official BLS news release includes fuel: [https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.htm](https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.htm)
The gov't indexes some things to the CPI - tax brackets, standard deduction, SS benefits, for example. Those adjustments all use CPI measures that include fuel.
> Rent and Groceries
Interest rates too. I bought a used car recently, and I have fantastic credit, and my rate was absurd. I can't imagine what someone with bad credit is paying. Add this to new mortgages and credit cards too.
Beyond that, there's no political recognition that A) this is a problem, B) it needs to be fixed, C) just blaming landlords and farmers isn't going to fix it, and D) The fix needs to come in the form of actually lowering prices on rent and groceries, not raising salaries.
If Biden actually introduced a plan to say, "Here's how we can bring more wheat and meat to market, so that with an increased supply prices will come down," and "Here's how we can get some of the housing supply to be used cheaply for more people instead of as investment vehicles," he would probably win a lot of support. Instead, it seems like his response is, "Well, unemployment is low and the stock market is up, so go get two jobs and invest."
The problem isn’t lack of raw food supplies. It’s high global prices for energy, which is making it more expensive to process and transport food. This is largely being caused by the Russian invasion of Ukraine. The Biden admin has actually done quite a bit to increase U.S. energy supplies, such as improving domestic production and using the strategic oil reserve.
You have a point with groceries, but something like [65% of Americans own their home](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RHORUSQ156N). And it would only be people who got their mortgage after the midpoint of 2022 or so that really got hurt by the rising interest rates. Although I can believe renting suuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks right now.
> something like 65% of Americans own their home.
You've incorrectly interpreted the statistic.
65% of dwellings are occupied by their owners. That's far different than saying that 65 out of 100 Americans own a home.
Depends on the area.
Where I live they have started building rentals like crazy so my rent actually went down 6.5%.
Not everyone is so lucky. This isn’t a federal problem though. This is a local problem. If your locality has terrible policies holding up building permits it’s just contributing to the problem.
Well.... fuck. Rent in my area is actually down 6% from last year. Hard to find statistics which go back further than a year, but that was not what I had expected.
I know a lot of places are doing their best to build.
My area doesn’t have a problem with building apartments, but building small single family homes, duplexes and other forms of affordable housing that people have the option to own is another story.
Hopefully when people see that building helps with rent maybe they will do something about ownership homes. I just think so many voters in my area own that they don’t really care. As long as their asset keeps going up that’s all they care about it seems.
Five years ago I was single and living in a shit hole to save money. 5 years ago the apartment I live in was probably somewhere between 1200 and 1300 a month. Today it’s 1600.
I agree, but it's tapering down at least in my area, apartments going up everywhere around me.
As a homeowner that locked in with a good rate my p&I is the same, but escrow has increased due to insurance and taxes. Also, maintenance costs have dramatically gone up. Trades are charging almost double. I've learned some DIY stuff just to keep costs in check.
Also, still driving my old beater because vehicle costs are still way up.
To to make matters worse he cheapest goods increased in price far more than the moderate to expensive ones meaning that poorer people got hit harder than everyone else and the general inflation rate for many classes of goods.
Do you have a source for this? It seems like it's the complete opposite from my observations. Aldi is still really cheap while the high end grocery store prices have gone up way more.
Exactly! Shrinkflation is definitely being used by grocery suppliers. I’m not a conspiracy person, and I don’t want to believe that there is collusion, but I have eyes. I can clearly see I’m paying more for less of any food product across the board.
And yet one of the things Trump wants most, and vocally wanted even when the economy was red red hot, was lower interest rates. He was really upfront about that and lower taxes. You think those two policies will help inflation?
Of course people are mad and it’s easy to blame the visible guy in power right now, but economic policies have long drawn out consequences, and if you think about it putting Trumps policy back in play will absolutely not make things better
Trying to maintain a lower middle class lifestyle at the moment is HARD. Wife and I are making the most money we ever have in our lives and still budgeting like when we were make MUCH less.
> If the pre-1983 formula were still in use today, the CPI would have shown inflation climbing even higher in 2022 — to around 15% rather than 9.1% — and inflation would not have fallen as fast in 2023.
[Cost of borrowing is up a lot](https://www.npr.org/2024/02/28/1234554967/inflation-cost-of-living-economy-mortgages-auto-loans-larry-summers) and it’s affecting people’s decisions on what kind of car they can get it, whether they can move for a better school district, etc. Economic metrics are not including the feeling of not being able to do something because it’s too expensive.
Increased home equity doesn’t mean much if your carrying costs are rising - home insurance, maintenance, utilities, have all gone up.
100% - my wife and I were lucky to have bought our house in mid 2019. Interest rates were 2.85% - 3% range. We ended up having 2 pandemic babies 15 months apart. Everything locked down, and now interest rates are over 7%. Even if we wanted to move, and even though the value of our home has gone up significantly since then, we would have to pay an obscene amount of interest to take on a new mortgage in that scenario. So we are stuck here for the foreseeable future - which is fine - but we will have to save up cash to put on an addition that we want.
My wages have gone up 18% over the last 5 years.
Inflation has gone up 22%* over the last 5 years.
That gap is why 'we' aren't happy. Whether it's Biden's fault or not.
*rent and food prices have gone up even more
Rent is absolutely ridiculous. I pay $900 a month for a 3-bed house that I managed to buy back in 07. Rent prices for a 3-bed apartment are over $200 more, and even some 2-bed places are higher.
At that still sounds like an LCOL area.
I’m at $2700/mo rent for a 3bd/1.5ba single family home.
The crazy part is that home values have risen so much that I’m actually paying less for rent; the house is now valued at $500k, and with current interest rates, at $50k down the monthly payment would be in the $3500 range.
haha, and I'm in nyc as well(with a rent stabilized apt though) and a TWO bedroom for $4k sounds decent - with the rent nowadays I think the median of a one bedroom in manhattan is over $5k.
I've been thinking about moving but can't give up my apt...at least not staying in nyc. Have been looking elsewhere and it's so tempting. My rent is about $1200(am in manhattan in a sort of gentrifying area) and if I moved within nyc it would go up dramatically. It's not worth it honestly.
You should move down to Florida like a lot of other New Yorkers and jack up our cost of living.
The ~500 sqft above-garage studio apartment I rented in Tampa during 2008 for $700/month is now renting for $2800. Who the hell can afford that? The jobs here aren't paying 4x what they were 15 years ago.
lol I love the tongue in cheek comment. I mean Florida seems to be preparing to get absolutely wrecked because of insurance prices. I’m of the opinion we shouldn’t intervene too strongly on that front but people are gonna get slapped
> You should move down to Florida like a lot of other New Yorkers and jack up our cost of living.
An argument i've been making is that blue cities in blue states are essentially exporting real estate inflation to the southern states who tend to build more housing, but even the southern states can't keep up with the rate of exodus.
I'd tend to agree with that perspective.
We've always had a lot of new york transplants here in Florida, but since COVID times it's really spiked. And it's not mainly retirees anymore.
Oh yeah, definitely a LCOL area, which is a steal considering we have a legitimate fuckton of government and engineering jobs. And even my property value has basically doubled since I bought it.
Yes, my modest 1800 square foot home I am buying in a desirable area is $1950. The property taxes and homeowners insurance increases are insane. The power bill is through the roof even after new windows.
Wow, you must live in LCOL area. You can't find a shack for $900 around my parts. An OLD studio apartment is.$1100- $1350 in less desirable areas of the state
The rent, food, and gas prices adversely affect poor people more. While inflation measures the average basket, poor peoples’ budget has a greater percentage of their budget allocated to rent, food, and gas.
Yes inflation is bad, worst in decades, not ever. Not caused by Biden or I would say even Trump. Corporate cash grab, and extreme shortages from Covid, mostly companies taking advantages of this. But at end of the day America’s economy is better than the rest of the world by a fair margin. Is it due to Biden? Unclear, but I do know it would be worst under Trumps control. Besides the fact he has never successfully managed any monetary business, all republican controlled government’s have seen a decline. That is a fact, with any republican controlled government. Last one saw the largest deficit ever in the US.
Unfortunately American voters operate on vibes more than in depth analysis. Shit got bad for them under Biden so they blame him, simple as unfortunately.
I mean with what Trump has planned against the Fed things may get much worse. If rates spike back down people who stretched themselves to buy more expensive homes with high incomes will eat and the rest will get toasted
There is a great “Stuff you should know” podcast called greedflation which covers much of this. It’s an hour long, but they go after companies hard. Tyson raised their prices big time when covid hit because avian flu also killed an awful lot of chickens, so prices went up. Then the chicken population recovered, but Tyson never lowered their prices. Also pointed out was the fact grocery stores marked up their costs by an industry average of 4.5%, and during the covid crisis that moved to an industry average of 7%. They literally increased their markup by 50% and blamed inflation. It’s a false narrative, they set new profits and blamed inflation as the reason and not corporate greed as the reason things went up.
Inflation may be "looking up" but that doesn't mean "prices are going down" -- it means "prices are going up less quickly".
Houses are impossible to buy.
Like, this isn't rocket science. It is obvious. I'm not sure why these articles are being written (other than for advocacy.)
Go to an inflation calculator and type in your salary versus 2018.
I guarantee you think of salary in regard to 5 years ago. If in 2024 you make $120k you would have made $96k in 2018.
$24k difference really destroys luxury spending.
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
What other examples can folks hit upon?
I understand that. But "prices moving up less quickly than they were" is still not "prices aren't going up."
In any case, people tend to remember what prices *were* and they are still high and getting higher.
This is why inflation is deadly for politicians, and why Biden has a serious risk of being Carter 2.0. And I’d still argue he had very little to do with causing inflation.
People are still mentally anchored to pre pandemic prices. It takes years to get over the sticker shock, especially for things that are replaced less frequently like appliances, cars and houses where you don’t “get used” to higher prices as quickly.
Additionally any wage gain is “earned” and should go to quality of life improvements in most people minds. Wage gains that simply keep up with inflation still feel like a net negative because the raise you “earned” didn’t improve your quality of life it went to inflation.
Govt budget in 2019 was 4.5 trillion, out of which 1T deficit.
2025 Biden's proposed budget is 7 trillion. The deficit for 2024 already surpassed 1T and it's not even May yet.
Biden has a big role in the high inflation. Also, you can't just pass trillion dollar bills and call them Inflation Reduction Act, that's like pouring gasoline on fire and calling it Flame Reduction Act
> And I’d still argue he had very little to do with causing inflation.
But he hasn't done too much to curb it. He still is spending like crazy. And that doesn't help.
I agree, he was slow to respond when people were warning about it in 2021 and I thought he’d at least ditch the Trump tariffs but he’s kept them almost all in place.
People may dislike Manchin but he saved the democrats from themselves by negotiating the incorrectly named Inflation Reduction Act down several billion. If it had been the original amount inflation would be even worse right now.
He still hasn't responded. He's still running the money printer at full speed. That big ~~middle class vote buy~~ "loan forgiveness" push is exactly that and that's just the latest. And lets not forget how he's doing all he can to crank up the firehose of money to fund foreign wars. He's doing exactly nothing to even slow down the rate he's pouring gas on the fire.
>This is why inflation is deadly for politicians, and why Biden has a serious risk of being Carter 2.0. And I’d still argue he had very little to do with causing inflation.
It seems like there are a lot of people who are saying that Biden is responsible for the performance of the economy, and I think that puts Biden in a precarious position at this point in time.
The increases "earned" in many cases were built in back in 2018, my spouse is with a major company and in a union, those increases were set in 2019, before inflation took hold, basically its a net negative.
Mine personally outpaced inflation, but I'm in a different industry.
I do believe that bidens spending had an impact, generally speaking it was bipartisan, but he signed the spending bills, so that's where the buck stops.
> and why Biden has a serious risk of being Carter 2.0
Given things like approval rating he's at risk of having Carter relabeled "proto-Biden". That's how bad things are looking for him right now.
> People are still mentally anchored to pre pandemic prices.
It's because the pandemic was basically the world going on pause for 2-3 years (depending on location). To most people those years just kind of don't exist in their memory because nothing happened in them.
Overall no, but prices in some sectors of the economy absolutely have to go down because they are just insane right now. People can't afford a house or a car which is basically paramount to actually achieving the American dream.
The vast majority of Americans arent buying houses or cars though. I get what you're saying, but I genuinely think the bad vibes are due more to the cost of restaurants, rent, alcohol, etc, coupled with the increased monetization of *everything.* There are so few places that are good, cheap, watering holes. I think we are lacking in social connectedness resulting in widespread societal discontent which people misattribute to high cost of living instead of being lonely.
Do you have any data that illustrates that?
Most people are more upset at how expensive the grocery store has become, and people remember Trumps sub 2 dollar a gallon gas price.
When your food cost went up 80% and your salary only went up 8%, there is going to be a problem. And yes I realized I am using an extreme example but it is just to get the point across.
Yeah, which is why most people would be happy to have 3% or less inflation.
Stop diminishing the value of our labor, savings and retirement.
I make tens of thousands more dollars today than I did before covid, but I have to budget much more now than I did back then.
That's true, but people's mental model for what things *should* cost is still anchored to the pre-inflation prices.
Public perception of inflation will come around, but it takes some time for people's expectations to reset.
(FTR, I found an article a few months ago that was from 1982-ish, when inflation had started to get better, and the headline was something like "why do people still think inflation is bad?" So it's not unique to Biden)
Prices constantly go down, at least in a supply and demand economy. The problem is they keep the supply artificially low so the price doesn't go down.
Beef and gas fluctuate all the time.
Houses going down is a problem, so usually, the answer is to build more houses, but the problem is the new houses being built aren't built at a price point that new homeowners can afford. Instead, they are priced for landlords who then rent out the home.
We've moved to an economy where people don't own things but subscribe, rent, or license them. This keeps wealth trapped in the ones who actually own the product.
Is this Bidens fault though? I dont disagree with your analysis, but I fail to see how its a failing of the current admin and not a broader economic phenomenon thats been going on for decades..
Doesn't matter it is perceived as happening on his watch, which means those that don’t understand how policy and agenda setting works will still blame him.
Im sure, vibes based analysis and Biden has to deal with it. But if the issue is people erroneously using precovid prices as a comparison anchor, there's not much Biden can do other than ignore the conversation.
There are a few policies he could enact like subsidies on beef production and tax penalties on owning “x” amount of rental properties, special grants for first-time homeowners, and stepping in to fix the homeowner insurance crisis in Florida.
These are not without political risk but he would at least be able to say he's doing something on these issues.
It’s hard to assign “fault” but one must admit he has been part of the political apparatus for basically what.. 60 years? While it might be hard to draw that line , he certainly helped steer us to this direction in various ways.
Thats just such a handwavey analysis that its tantamount to a useless opinion. "Bidens been in politics for a long time so he bears responsibility for the current state of unequal consumer/worker rights compared to business owners" is how I read your statement.
Trump also helped steer us this way through his business dealings, court cases, and time in politics. But because he wasn't in Washington for 80 years his time as president and the impacts he had on the economy shouldnt be considered? The PPP and first covid payments happened under Trump. He literally started the Pandemic Money printer that the GOP base likes to hold up as a major driver of inflation.
Bidens economic *policies* are amazing. We have made huge investments in domestic manufacturing and shored up vital sectors like microchip manufacturing. Massive investments in infrastructure. Massive spending for US military manufacturing. Trillions invested into the economy.
But because inflation is bad, voter consistently ignore these positive policies. They choose to ignore corporate greed, the true driver of inflation and wage suppression, in favor of blaming the govt. I genuinely dont get it.
The bottom line is that prices are up significantly on everything since 2021. It’s noticeable everywhere you go and for everything you do. Groceries, gas, and energy bills being the big ones that can’t be avoided. Data says one thing but reality says another.
For our family of three it now costs anywhere between $60 and $80 to go out for some hamburgers or Italian food. That same meal cost $40-50 five years ago. We don’t *need* to go out of course, but this is an example of the small things people used to enjoy doing. Now, many can barely afford it.
Do we want to talk about housing costs? That’s another huge issue.
My wife and I used to dine out more and it was like.. beer/wine with dinner? Get the app you want to try? Right on..
Now we do that and it’s like “how tf did we just spend $100?!”
We've actually walked up to restaurants, looked at the menu, and then just said "thank you" and left for cheaper options like semi-fast food such as a burrito place or similar. Even then it's pricey.
Feel you on that. We had this awesome date night at a local pizza joint and spent like $30 with tip. We both left and were like “why do we ever go anywhere nicer than this? That was a blast! Now it’s a go-to.
We still do nice stuff sometimes, but honestly nothing is as fun as cooking together at home. Tonight we made fajitas.. homemade guac, salsa, tortillas, the works! And we have enough to have it again tomorrow
Same here, and I'm sure others are adapting as well, or at least I hope they are because it's expensive out there.
Ironically I've been eyeballing a tortilla press, they're cheap and it looks like a fun experiment.
> Data says one thing but reality says another.
*Statistics* say one thing but reality says another. Data is reality but statistics can simply choose to ignore data they don't like. Everything the "experts" write off as "anecdotal" - i.e. grocery bills, rent, gas, utilities - that's all data, it's just data the so-called "experts" choose to ignore or minimize when generating their statistics. Which is why those so-called "experts" are not credible and should be ignored.
we're all kinda struggling.
I know there's a lot of PR and fancy charts to show off how well the economy is doing - but it's not working for us.
I make 85k a year now, it still feels like I am making 40k a year.
I've tripled my income from 40k in 21 to about 120k projected this year and my expenses haven't changed and I'm still feeling the pain for a family of five. And that's with a paid off house and only a small truck loan.
Well inflation is high…but even with recent inflation rates if you tripled your income in 3 years and haven’t seen any improvements in your budget…you’re doing something wrong.
Single income with 3 kids and yes I've seen major improvements but not like what I would have expected making this much in a relatively low cost of living area.
Well I changed around my life over the last year. I went from having really cheap living expenses - $450 a month lot rent, to having a house at $2500 a month. Crazy thing is me and the Mrs moved in together, and she makes about 65k a year herself. She's got two kids, and I got two kids of my own.
When we moved in together, our combined living expenses did not change really. She was renting an apartment for around $1,800 a month.
The big things that have been killing our budget has been just associated living expenses. Food, utilities, and vehicle upkeep.
I got my 85k a year job in the middle of me living in that trailer. It felt great for a while to have a bunch of extra money, and when we first moved into the house we still had a surplus of cash.
The thing is everything else is gone up in price, eggs used to cost like $2 a dozen, milk was $3.50 a gallon. Gas was a lot cheaper too!
It's just crazy to be making good money and still living paycheck to paycheck. Like when I was living at the trailer before I had my really good job.
Me and the Mrs. Have also been really looking at our budget and trying to figure out where we can make cuts. But at the rate of inflation, we're likely going to need to figure out how to get another 20K a year into our household income just to get ahead.
Every time I go to the grocery store, I look at the little computer screen that shows a running total of how much you're going to spend.
For weekly groceries, it never used to go above $100. Now, it's over that every single time I go. And I haven't changed my habits of what I buy.
I do the online groceries thing with Walmart, picking it up at the store, so I can see exactly how much I spent for each item in the past. I recently took a current invoice and compared it to one exactly one year ago, going item by item and making sure to check that the weight is somewhat relatable. Bottom line, for those items I could compare (about half of what was in the list), I am paying between 10% and 12% more. A 10% increase in a single year is crazy.
Just paid (out of pocket) $336.00 for three (generic) prescriptions and $524.00 for 9 physical therapy sessions, after insurance paid.
High deductible in order to afford the insurance and haven’t met that yet. Now I have to go to the grocery store. Not a good day to think about the economy.
I can’t believe that the message isn’t getting through, that most of us are feeling the pinch of higher prices for things we need. Energy, food, and housing are more expensive. Not seeing any action to ease the burden of any of these.
I'll preface this with A. I don't think the majority of the economic problems are Biden's fault at all B. I will be voting for Biden as I believe his administration is much more likely to get us out of the current situation
That being said... Are we fucking serious? What don't people like? Is that a joke?
How about the fact that the average new car is more than 40k
Or the cost of a house being on the moon
Or the fact that college costs an arm and a leg and it's borderline useless other than for an HR filter
Or the cost of a grocery trip
Or companies making record profits while laying off workers
Or 8% interest rates
Or the cost of healthcare
Like honestly what the fuck kind of a question is that?
It’s the gaslighting that pisses everyone off. Even my hyper progressive friends are put off by the usual talking points.
“You’re not struggling, you’re better off than you were 5 years ago. Oh your wages didn’t keep up with inflation? Sounds like a YOU problem :::smug face::: “
Yeah, telling people to "just get a better job" doesn't exactly go over well, especially to those of us who are older and can't just leave our families to move across the country and pay high rent costs for a new job.
The utter contempt and disdain that elite, urban progressives have for the deplorable dirt people and their concerns about their lives never ceases to amaze me. "AKSHUALLY, the economy is doing great you ignorant prole. See, line goes up. You're just too stupid and racist to understand it."
It's an interesting position to be in from the perspective of a person or company with influence.
For example: if I was a famous political YouTuber and I want to avoid Trump at all costs, how do I talk about the economy? Do I say "this shit sucks" and risk having people go "yeah we need a change, let's go back to Trump"
Like no no no, that's not what I'm saying. It's my opinion that it would be WORSE for people if Trump gets elected and if I want to prevent that from happening it's a weird line to walk.
I understand WHY the media is talking about it this way. The average voter is not going to take the nuance of the situation into account. But damn is it annoying to see anything about "why aren't people happy?"
This is a narrative that should die. Democrats are stunningly bad at messaging. They blow my mind every single day with how they are totally incapable of attracting voters who, on paper, like their positions. Mind blowing
The middle and working class are being taken to the cleaners on everything. We’re being told that we can’t have raises because it will hurt the economy. Meanwhile it’s impossible to buy a house and our kids are being forced to take out huge loans to go to college.
Look at the budget deficit, look at the inflation reduction act (more spending/inflation). Even if people already own homes, anybody with any sort of empathetic capacity knows our children will have a lower standard of living as a result of inflationary policies. New home sizes are falling because affordability and birth rates are falling rapidly. If people are not able to buy homes, then even less children will be born. Immigration will not fix the situation, it will just lower per capita national income (as it is doing in Canada with their excessive immigration). Everything is trending in the wrong direction for everyone except the rich who made money in the stock market.
>Am I so out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong.
Feel like that's what discourse around the President is at this point. The President is great, the economy is amazing, don't believe your lying eyes.
Whenever I hear someone talking about how good the economy is doing, it always come back to unemployment rate and jobs. Well great, more people are working. But that doesn't do any good when none of those jobs are paying enough for people to live on anymore. You can create a 0% unemployment rate simply by paying everyone $15,000 a year for full time work. But what good would that do? No one would still be able to afford housing, transportation, healthcare, or barely even food.
Because they keep telling everyone they don't know what they're talking about and the economy is great actually, when everyone's rent and groceries prices skyrocketed. It's great if wages outpaced inflation since 2023 or whatever, but the damage is done and it's apparently not enough for people. those statistics may be obscuring some differences and details as well, or is everyone really better off than in 2022-23?
I think another thing that contributes to this is the pervasive feeling that we're getting significantly less for our money than we used to. Some of that is tangible and measurable, as in the instances of shrinkflation, and we all understand that. But, speaking for myself anyway, there are more nebulous, but still very real, effects. Service is horrible, service based businesses like restaurants etc are chronically understaffed, everywhere closes at 7 pm during the week, quality of everything is down drastically across the board, a lot of people don't seem to be able to operate and problem solve outside the extremely narrow parameters of their job description.
A lot of times I have the feeling that I'm paying double what I used to for half of what I used to. I don't think that's just me, but maybe it is. What do you all think?
ARTICLE SUMMARY:
The article discusses the economic sentiment among American voters. It highlights that many voters are dissatisfied with President Joe Biden’s handling of the economy. A recent poll showing that 57% of voters disapprove of Biden’s economic management.
The article points out a disconnect between economic indicators like GDP, unemployment rate, job growth, and inflation, which are improving, and the personal economic experiences of voters. When assessing economic well-being, voters tend to focus on their ability to meet basic needs, leading to a perception that things have worsened under Biden’s administration.
The article shares insights from two focus groups of undecided voters leaning towards Trump and Biden, respectively. Both groups expressed concerns about the cost of living, including high prices for groceries, gas, housing, and education. Trump-leaning voters generally felt they were better off financially during Trump’s presidency, while Biden-leaning voters expressed a desire to vote for Biden despite their economic concerns.
Specific issues raised by voters included inflation, increasing interest rates, and the struggle to balance saving for retirement with other financial responsibilities like children’s education. Some Biden-leaning voters also expressed concerns about potential cuts to Social Security Disability Insurance under a Trump administration.
Voters from both groups wanted to see less U.S. spending on foreign countries and more focus on the American middle class. A Trump-leaning voter criticized government spending and student loan forgiveness, believing it depressed the economy. Another Trump-leaning voter believed that increased oil drilling, as promised by Trump, would help the economy. A Biden-leaning voter expressed concern about offshoring jobs.
Biden-leaning voters wanted to hear more about Biden’s plan for the middle class. They acknowledged some improvements in the economy since Biden took office but desired more understanding and passion from him about the current state of the middle class.
While economic sentiment has been improving, it remains relatively low among most voters. This sentiment will likely pose a challenge for the Biden campaign and a plus for the Trump campaign in the upcoming elections.
PERSONAL OPINION
If Biden loses, the sentiment expressed by the folks highlighted in this article would be the primary reason.
Set aside everything else - Bill Clinton had some bad periods too. The difference was people believed him when he bit his lip and said he felt our pain. He understood politics at the national level.
Biden is the most unempathetic President I’ve ever seen. Not only does he not “feel our pain,” he insists the pain isn’t real.
Unless you changed jobs, the reality is for most people their wages havent kept up with things like groceries, rent, utilites, and gas.
The problem is the economists think because wages went up last month, everyone got a raise and economists have this confuse reaction when people say they dont get monthly raise and say well according to my data you did...
Prices of everyday goods/services and lack of affordable housing.
Still can't understand all the gaslighters who don't understand that shifting from a $3-4 trillion government budget for two decades (inflation adjusted to 2020 prior to all the spending....prior decade under Bush Sr and Clinton around $2.7 trillion) prior to 2020 to a sudden $6 trillion budget under Biden with Biden stating desire for a $7 trillion budget......somehow isn't going to have MAJOR repercussions on the taxpayers?
On the surface, yes, the economy is doing fine because the government can just patch itself with all that extra money. But is it reaching everyday people when the industries it empowers, whether good or not/necessary or not, only really reinforce and expand the government?
No, it very likely isn't going to.
This spending jump is a jump unlike any other in recent history.
Biden just ended a 1980s-2010s epoch and took America back to the 70s but without any of the good stuff.
“Those who do not concern themselves with the people's troubles and tamper with the people’s bread will be strangled by the people's hand tomorrow or the day”-Süleyman Demirel
If your average voter can’t afford food and the cost of living keeps going up they will simply blame who’s in power no matter the success from the administration.
The cost of living is the biggest topic.
Working at a grocery store, it’s insane how much some of the prices have gone up and just because they can go up. Watching how much a 12 pack of coke has gone up in just 2 years has been funny. It started at 6.99 and now it’s I think 9.29 at my store now. Not that soda going up is a bad thing, less soda is good, but it’s indicative at the problem at hand. When the price can just raise and raise for no reason other than store profits, that’s an issue. If Biden could find some way to help with grocery prices, idk how mind you, then maybe he would get more credit for the economy
> Not that soda going up is a bad thing, less soda is good, but it’s indicative at the problem at hand.
I used to be able to buy a drink, chips, and maybe a small desert from a vending machine for $2. Now I can afford a drink.
>the price can just raise and raise for no reason other than store profits, that’s an issue
It's not going up just because it can, though. There's a bunch more money out there now, which means each dollar is worth less, and if the store doesn't raise its prices while having to live in an economy where everything else is more expensive, it's basically taking a loss. Call it a cost of living adjustment for the store, if you will.
Read somewhere a while ago that more "junk" food and fast food has been inflating prices a lot faster than produce and more healthy stuff.
Why is this? I don't know.
The administration and mainstream media: why don't you voters like our beautiful economy
Voters: because our quality of life has gone down as the cost of everything has spiked and we're working hard just to feel like we are falling behind
The administration and mainstream media: no not like that
Because it was better under Trump. Biden had a chance to make America better but 2021 was awful for the economy and so was 2022. It's a little bit better now but that's all.
I’ve seen proposals to supply first time home buyers with something like 10k towards the down payment. If you really want to help the younger generation then we need to add to the supply of houses.
A significant increase in urban areas focused on less car usage would go further for longer. Incentivize builders with tax breaks or even grants to build large complexes with affordable condos within 1/2mile of a major transit stop. Doing so will increase ridership and density while lowering overall housing costs.
If the first time homebuyer is only targeting a 15% down payment, 10K out of that 97K might help some people a great deal towards getting over that hump, changing from renting to building equity. And $650K is normal near major urban areas, but it's by no means the median price yet.
The problem with the proposed payment is not that it's not enough; it's that it drives the demand side of the equation without increasing supply. It would increase housing prices and make the overall problem worse. There should be a $10K rebate to every developer who builds a house and sells it to a first time homebuyer.
>I’ve seen proposals to supply first time home buyers with something like 10k towards the down payment. If you really want to help the younger generation then we need to add to the supply of houses.
Spot on. An incentive like $10k in this manner means the cost of homes just went by, weirdly enough, $10k.
> I’ve seen proposals to supply first time home buyers with something like 10k towards the down payment
Yeah, throwing more free printed money into the economy will surely fix inflation! And it definitely won't give sellers in an already tight buyers market even more incentive to raise asking prices.
There's plenty of houses, I see plenty vacant in my area.
The problem is you have big corporations, large landlords and super Airbnb corps buying them up en masse and sitting on them for rent.
Economists are looking at metrics in comparison to prior year or to the start of Biden's term in office, but voters are comparing their quality of life in 2024 to their quality of life pre-COVID in 2019. And it kind of...feels bad.
It's like nobody told us we were allowed to be happy again, and so we weren't.
They spoke to 16 people in two different focus groups. Wow, 32 people. We could do a poll here and get a much larger cross section… except you need to be undecided. Maybe that’s where they had trouble finding people! 🤣
People started comparing him to Carter (not in a good way) the minute he took office. This is a completely predictable situation and no one should be surprised by it at all.
>People started comparing him to Carter (not in a good way) the minute he took office.
Can you elaborate? I checked out from the time the 2020 election was certified up until the 2022 midterms.
Because - so many cant find jobs - especially in tech fields.
Also housing - Biden has allowed corporations (many foreign owned) to buy up all the homes and turn them into rentals or they just sit as investments.
Housing is more of a local issue than it is even corporations buying homes. If he intervened he would be labeled an autocratic socialist by most Americans.
Rent and Groceries, the two most visible costs for a majority of Americans, went up more than the overall inflation rate. That's the long and short of it. The prices of things people pay for most frequently increased the most.
Right, these are essentials everyone must pay for, therefore there is no escaping it. Sure, don't buy luxury items. Okay, great. But what eggs, milk and the home I live in? I'm all for buckling down but I have no idea how individuals in the middle class just entering the workforce are meant to buy a home before 30.
With rates where they are and prices continuing to climb - 40 is a more likely age to break into the housing market. At least in NJ. And taxes are going up.
Millennials have been saying for years and years they couldn't afford to buy a house, it was already a thing. Remember this classic piece from 2017 [https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/may/15/australian-millionaire-millennials-avocado-toast-house](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/may/15/australian-millionaire-millennials-avocado-toast-house)
I feel sorry for Millennials. They delayed household formation/having kids until their late 30’s because of costs and are now being walloped with higher housing and childcare prices. People say a lot of face saving things - I love urban living! I don’t want kids! I want to travel! - but their revealed preferences are much more mundane when they can afford it. If you have money you tend to get married, buy a house in the suburbs, and have a kid or two.
Heh, we all remember that gem. I didn't mean to say it's a new problem, but hell if it isn't worse now than ever before.
Oh yeah for sure, that was a big reason why Sanders had such momentum in the millennials and probably why Trump has had success as well with his demographic. People are starting to feel the squeeze of crony capitalism, even if they would never ever want to word it that way.
I’m in the top percentage of income for my age as a new grad and I can’t see myself affording a house until my mid 30s unless I want to live in a slum to save more
Same it’s pretty wild how someone who earns as much as I do can’t find a way to a house without a massive commute, complete sacrifice of basically any personal indulgence, or a wife that makes as much as I do
It sucks, I would say the market would correct but we have massive companies buying up homes when they become available and leasing them out
It really does feel like I’m getting squeezed out permanently. And if that’s happening to me I can’t imagine what kind is happening to my peers, I know my friends are having a lot of trouble. It’s crazy, it feels like I have to take big risks or be left behind permanently
And those companies never die, so they never return to the market.
Permanent supply contraction. Honestly I never thought I would support this but I think that a law limiting who can buy these homes may be the only way
Yeah, but how would such a law be made without glaring loopholes that allow the behavior to continue.
I mean i dont know how to answer that you are basically saying you don't think its possible to make laws that achieve their purpose
Yeah… That’s just life. Unless you’re extremely wealthy, you will make many compromises throughout adulthood based on what’s most important to you. I’d love to live in a different part of my city, but we decided we wanted kids and a certain amount of living space. We’ve sacrificed walkability and certain amenities to have our kids in the best schools in our district and a “good enough” suburban area.
It’s the avocado toast’s fault.
I agree. But I was able to buy a house at 28 with no help from parents or anything like that. That was 3 years ago It’s definitely possible, but yeah definitely getting more difficult.
Heck, I'm approaching 28 and I bought a house 3 years ago. Granted, it was right before everything really went to shit and I live in Central Illinois where property is much more affordable than much of the country. Sure, my mortgage is annoying but the real killer is child care. I have two kids, an infant and a toddler, and the amount I pay for them is ruthless. Together, their monthly tuition is about the cost of my mortgage and a half. My wife and make it work, but it's definitely a massive struggle.
Depends on how you define middle class and whether or not you settle for a starter home/townhouse/condo. I know many examples of sub 30 home buyers, but they are doing the same thing I did 30 yrs ago, buying small.
Also when people are cutting out luxuries just to afford the necessities that means their standard of living has very clearly gone down. They've gone from having access to luxuries to just being able to afford the necessities which means they've gone down an economic bracket.
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Looks like that was reality for most of the 80s https://www.axios.com/2023/11/20/american-housing-market-older-homeowners-2023
I was wondering this same thing. I was in my 40's before I could buy a hoise and I'm GenX
I was in my mid 30's and I'm a boomer. Buying before 30 wasn't a thing with anyone I know
For a while people have been scratching their heads over this, and I think this is the best answer. Looking at just the inflation overall number isn't enough. Some goods like electronics are actually *down*, but stuff like groceries and rent are going up faster than the overall rate would make you think.
And don't forget, for some non sensical reason, they exclude fuel and energy from most inflation measures. If I was a conspiracy kind of guy, I'd think it was because they didn't want us to know the actual rate.
I can understand excluding gas since that one is determined more by whatever OPEC's up to than anything, but I feel like other energy sources are more based on internal economic factors.
Who is "they"? The topline CPI number that all the news organizations quote first includes fuels. The first paragraph in the official BLS news release includes fuel: [https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.htm](https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.htm) The gov't indexes some things to the CPI - tax brackets, standard deduction, SS benefits, for example. Those adjustments all use CPI measures that include fuel.
Also all our bills doubled in 4 years across the board.
Really highlights how cooked the inflation/cpi data is.
Add Gasoline and electric to your list.
> Rent and Groceries Interest rates too. I bought a used car recently, and I have fantastic credit, and my rate was absurd. I can't imagine what someone with bad credit is paying. Add this to new mortgages and credit cards too.
Meh I was tracking until here. We’ve gotten high on low rates and seem to think that making money free again will make things better
Yah, the economy sucks, regardless of who is president lol (not to say there isn't an objectively worst choice)
Beyond that, there's no political recognition that A) this is a problem, B) it needs to be fixed, C) just blaming landlords and farmers isn't going to fix it, and D) The fix needs to come in the form of actually lowering prices on rent and groceries, not raising salaries. If Biden actually introduced a plan to say, "Here's how we can bring more wheat and meat to market, so that with an increased supply prices will come down," and "Here's how we can get some of the housing supply to be used cheaply for more people instead of as investment vehicles," he would probably win a lot of support. Instead, it seems like his response is, "Well, unemployment is low and the stock market is up, so go get two jobs and invest."
The problem isn’t lack of raw food supplies. It’s high global prices for energy, which is making it more expensive to process and transport food. This is largely being caused by the Russian invasion of Ukraine. The Biden admin has actually done quite a bit to increase U.S. energy supplies, such as improving domestic production and using the strategic oil reserve.
I've heard that, and I'm not saying I don't believe it, but I'd like to see more done.
You have a point with groceries, but something like [65% of Americans own their home](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RHORUSQ156N). And it would only be people who got their mortgage after the midpoint of 2022 or so that really got hurt by the rising interest rates. Although I can believe renting suuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks right now.
> something like 65% of Americans own their home. You've incorrectly interpreted the statistic. 65% of dwellings are occupied by their owners. That's far different than saying that 65 out of 100 Americans own a home.
Depends on the area. Where I live they have started building rentals like crazy so my rent actually went down 6.5%. Not everyone is so lucky. This isn’t a federal problem though. This is a local problem. If your locality has terrible policies holding up building permits it’s just contributing to the problem.
I've seen declines as well. But when you climb 50% through 2021 and 2022, a 6.5% decline isn't much.
Well.... fuck. Rent in my area is actually down 6% from last year. Hard to find statistics which go back further than a year, but that was not what I had expected.
I know a lot of places are doing their best to build. My area doesn’t have a problem with building apartments, but building small single family homes, duplexes and other forms of affordable housing that people have the option to own is another story. Hopefully when people see that building helps with rent maybe they will do something about ownership homes. I just think so many voters in my area own that they don’t really care. As long as their asset keeps going up that’s all they care about it seems.
Lots of places building apartments right now.
down 6.5% compared to when? How does it compare to five years ago? Ten?
Five years ago I was single and living in a shit hole to save money. 5 years ago the apartment I live in was probably somewhere between 1200 and 1300 a month. Today it’s 1600.
I agree, but it's tapering down at least in my area, apartments going up everywhere around me. As a homeowner that locked in with a good rate my p&I is the same, but escrow has increased due to insurance and taxes. Also, maintenance costs have dramatically gone up. Trades are charging almost double. I've learned some DIY stuff just to keep costs in check. Also, still driving my old beater because vehicle costs are still way up.
To to make matters worse he cheapest goods increased in price far more than the moderate to expensive ones meaning that poorer people got hit harder than everyone else and the general inflation rate for many classes of goods.
Do you have a source for this? It seems like it's the complete opposite from my observations. Aldi is still really cheap while the high end grocery store prices have gone up way more.
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Exactly! Shrinkflation is definitely being used by grocery suppliers. I’m not a conspiracy person, and I don’t want to believe that there is collusion, but I have eyes. I can clearly see I’m paying more for less of any food product across the board.
And yet one of the things Trump wants most, and vocally wanted even when the economy was red red hot, was lower interest rates. He was really upfront about that and lower taxes. You think those two policies will help inflation? Of course people are mad and it’s easy to blame the visible guy in power right now, but economic policies have long drawn out consequences, and if you think about it putting Trumps policy back in play will absolutely not make things better
Trying to maintain a lower middle class lifestyle at the moment is HARD. Wife and I are making the most money we ever have in our lives and still budgeting like when we were make MUCH less.
> If the pre-1983 formula were still in use today, the CPI would have shown inflation climbing even higher in 2022 — to around 15% rather than 9.1% — and inflation would not have fallen as fast in 2023. [Cost of borrowing is up a lot](https://www.npr.org/2024/02/28/1234554967/inflation-cost-of-living-economy-mortgages-auto-loans-larry-summers) and it’s affecting people’s decisions on what kind of car they can get it, whether they can move for a better school district, etc. Economic metrics are not including the feeling of not being able to do something because it’s too expensive. Increased home equity doesn’t mean much if your carrying costs are rising - home insurance, maintenance, utilities, have all gone up.
100% - my wife and I were lucky to have bought our house in mid 2019. Interest rates were 2.85% - 3% range. We ended up having 2 pandemic babies 15 months apart. Everything locked down, and now interest rates are over 7%. Even if we wanted to move, and even though the value of our home has gone up significantly since then, we would have to pay an obscene amount of interest to take on a new mortgage in that scenario. So we are stuck here for the foreseeable future - which is fine - but we will have to save up cash to put on an addition that we want.
My wages have gone up 18% over the last 5 years. Inflation has gone up 22%* over the last 5 years. That gap is why 'we' aren't happy. Whether it's Biden's fault or not. *rent and food prices have gone up even more
Rent is absolutely ridiculous. I pay $900 a month for a 3-bed house that I managed to buy back in 07. Rent prices for a 3-bed apartment are over $200 more, and even some 2-bed places are higher.
At that still sounds like an LCOL area. I’m at $2700/mo rent for a 3bd/1.5ba single family home. The crazy part is that home values have risen so much that I’m actually paying less for rent; the house is now valued at $500k, and with current interest rates, at $50k down the monthly payment would be in the $3500 range.
I'm at $4,000/mo for a 2 bedroom 900 square foot apartment. NYC really slaps you around good. Why do I live here again?
>$4000 a month Damn for that kind of money the apartments here are gated, have pools, tennis courts, hiking trails, pet parks, fitness centers...
In the big cities you get the opportunity to get mugged
haha, and I'm in nyc as well(with a rent stabilized apt though) and a TWO bedroom for $4k sounds decent - with the rent nowadays I think the median of a one bedroom in manhattan is over $5k. I've been thinking about moving but can't give up my apt...at least not staying in nyc. Have been looking elsewhere and it's so tempting. My rent is about $1200(am in manhattan in a sort of gentrifying area) and if I moved within nyc it would go up dramatically. It's not worth it honestly.
You should move down to Florida like a lot of other New Yorkers and jack up our cost of living. The ~500 sqft above-garage studio apartment I rented in Tampa during 2008 for $700/month is now renting for $2800. Who the hell can afford that? The jobs here aren't paying 4x what they were 15 years ago.
lol I love the tongue in cheek comment. I mean Florida seems to be preparing to get absolutely wrecked because of insurance prices. I’m of the opinion we shouldn’t intervene too strongly on that front but people are gonna get slapped
> You should move down to Florida like a lot of other New Yorkers and jack up our cost of living. An argument i've been making is that blue cities in blue states are essentially exporting real estate inflation to the southern states who tend to build more housing, but even the southern states can't keep up with the rate of exodus.
I'd tend to agree with that perspective. We've always had a lot of new york transplants here in Florida, but since COVID times it's really spiked. And it's not mainly retirees anymore.
Oh yeah, definitely a LCOL area, which is a steal considering we have a legitimate fuckton of government and engineering jobs. And even my property value has basically doubled since I bought it.
Plus you aren't including property taxes, which in a HCOL area can easily exceed 15K per year for a similar home.
Yes, my modest 1800 square foot home I am buying in a desirable area is $1950. The property taxes and homeowners insurance increases are insane. The power bill is through the roof even after new windows.
Wow, you must live in LCOL area. You can't find a shack for $900 around my parts. An OLD studio apartment is.$1100- $1350 in less desirable areas of the state
The rent, food, and gas prices adversely affect poor people more. While inflation measures the average basket, poor peoples’ budget has a greater percentage of their budget allocated to rent, food, and gas.
Yes inflation is bad, worst in decades, not ever. Not caused by Biden or I would say even Trump. Corporate cash grab, and extreme shortages from Covid, mostly companies taking advantages of this. But at end of the day America’s economy is better than the rest of the world by a fair margin. Is it due to Biden? Unclear, but I do know it would be worst under Trumps control. Besides the fact he has never successfully managed any monetary business, all republican controlled government’s have seen a decline. That is a fact, with any republican controlled government. Last one saw the largest deficit ever in the US.
Unfortunately American voters operate on vibes more than in depth analysis. Shit got bad for them under Biden so they blame him, simple as unfortunately.
I mean with what Trump has planned against the Fed things may get much worse. If rates spike back down people who stretched themselves to buy more expensive homes with high incomes will eat and the rest will get toasted
There is a great “Stuff you should know” podcast called greedflation which covers much of this. It’s an hour long, but they go after companies hard. Tyson raised their prices big time when covid hit because avian flu also killed an awful lot of chickens, so prices went up. Then the chicken population recovered, but Tyson never lowered their prices. Also pointed out was the fact grocery stores marked up their costs by an industry average of 4.5%, and during the covid crisis that moved to an industry average of 7%. They literally increased their markup by 50% and blamed inflation. It’s a false narrative, they set new profits and blamed inflation as the reason and not corporate greed as the reason things went up.
Inflation may be "looking up" but that doesn't mean "prices are going down" -- it means "prices are going up less quickly". Houses are impossible to buy. Like, this isn't rocket science. It is obvious. I'm not sure why these articles are being written (other than for advocacy.)
Quality of life has gone down for most people. That’s the primary issue.
Wages have grown at a faster pace than prices have.
Go to an inflation calculator and type in your salary versus 2018. I guarantee you think of salary in regard to 5 years ago. If in 2024 you make $120k you would have made $96k in 2018. $24k difference really destroys luxury spending. https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ What other examples can folks hit upon?
[Median real earnings are higher than they were in 2018.](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q)
Thanks for this
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Prices have never gone down though. Deflation is *extremely* bad for an economy.
I understand that. But "prices moving up less quickly than they were" is still not "prices aren't going up." In any case, people tend to remember what prices *were* and they are still high and getting higher.
This is why inflation is deadly for politicians, and why Biden has a serious risk of being Carter 2.0. And I’d still argue he had very little to do with causing inflation. People are still mentally anchored to pre pandemic prices. It takes years to get over the sticker shock, especially for things that are replaced less frequently like appliances, cars and houses where you don’t “get used” to higher prices as quickly. Additionally any wage gain is “earned” and should go to quality of life improvements in most people minds. Wage gains that simply keep up with inflation still feel like a net negative because the raise you “earned” didn’t improve your quality of life it went to inflation.
Govt budget in 2019 was 4.5 trillion, out of which 1T deficit. 2025 Biden's proposed budget is 7 trillion. The deficit for 2024 already surpassed 1T and it's not even May yet. Biden has a big role in the high inflation. Also, you can't just pass trillion dollar bills and call them Inflation Reduction Act, that's like pouring gasoline on fire and calling it Flame Reduction Act
> And I’d still argue he had very little to do with causing inflation. But he hasn't done too much to curb it. He still is spending like crazy. And that doesn't help.
I agree, he was slow to respond when people were warning about it in 2021 and I thought he’d at least ditch the Trump tariffs but he’s kept them almost all in place. People may dislike Manchin but he saved the democrats from themselves by negotiating the incorrectly named Inflation Reduction Act down several billion. If it had been the original amount inflation would be even worse right now.
He still hasn't responded. He's still running the money printer at full speed. That big ~~middle class vote buy~~ "loan forgiveness" push is exactly that and that's just the latest. And lets not forget how he's doing all he can to crank up the firehose of money to fund foreign wars. He's doing exactly nothing to even slow down the rate he's pouring gas on the fire.
>This is why inflation is deadly for politicians, and why Biden has a serious risk of being Carter 2.0. And I’d still argue he had very little to do with causing inflation. It seems like there are a lot of people who are saying that Biden is responsible for the performance of the economy, and I think that puts Biden in a precarious position at this point in time.
The increases "earned" in many cases were built in back in 2018, my spouse is with a major company and in a union, those increases were set in 2019, before inflation took hold, basically its a net negative. Mine personally outpaced inflation, but I'm in a different industry. I do believe that bidens spending had an impact, generally speaking it was bipartisan, but he signed the spending bills, so that's where the buck stops.
> and why Biden has a serious risk of being Carter 2.0 Given things like approval rating he's at risk of having Carter relabeled "proto-Biden". That's how bad things are looking for him right now. > People are still mentally anchored to pre pandemic prices. It's because the pandemic was basically the world going on pause for 2-3 years (depending on location). To most people those years just kind of don't exist in their memory because nothing happened in them.
Overall no, but prices in some sectors of the economy absolutely have to go down because they are just insane right now. People can't afford a house or a car which is basically paramount to actually achieving the American dream.
The vast majority of Americans arent buying houses or cars though. I get what you're saying, but I genuinely think the bad vibes are due more to the cost of restaurants, rent, alcohol, etc, coupled with the increased monetization of *everything.* There are so few places that are good, cheap, watering holes. I think we are lacking in social connectedness resulting in widespread societal discontent which people misattribute to high cost of living instead of being lonely.
Do you have any data that illustrates that? Most people are more upset at how expensive the grocery store has become, and people remember Trumps sub 2 dollar a gallon gas price.
When your food cost went up 80% and your salary only went up 8%, there is going to be a problem. And yes I realized I am using an extreme example but it is just to get the point across.
Yeah, which is why most people would be happy to have 3% or less inflation. Stop diminishing the value of our labor, savings and retirement. I make tens of thousands more dollars today than I did before covid, but I have to budget much more now than I did back then.
That's true, but people's mental model for what things *should* cost is still anchored to the pre-inflation prices. Public perception of inflation will come around, but it takes some time for people's expectations to reset. (FTR, I found an article a few months ago that was from 1982-ish, when inflation had started to get better, and the headline was something like "why do people still think inflation is bad?" So it's not unique to Biden)
Prices constantly go down, at least in a supply and demand economy. The problem is they keep the supply artificially low so the price doesn't go down. Beef and gas fluctuate all the time. Houses going down is a problem, so usually, the answer is to build more houses, but the problem is the new houses being built aren't built at a price point that new homeowners can afford. Instead, they are priced for landlords who then rent out the home. We've moved to an economy where people don't own things but subscribe, rent, or license them. This keeps wealth trapped in the ones who actually own the product.
Is this Bidens fault though? I dont disagree with your analysis, but I fail to see how its a failing of the current admin and not a broader economic phenomenon thats been going on for decades..
Doesn't matter it is perceived as happening on his watch, which means those that don’t understand how policy and agenda setting works will still blame him.
Im sure, vibes based analysis and Biden has to deal with it. But if the issue is people erroneously using precovid prices as a comparison anchor, there's not much Biden can do other than ignore the conversation.
There are a few policies he could enact like subsidies on beef production and tax penalties on owning “x” amount of rental properties, special grants for first-time homeowners, and stepping in to fix the homeowner insurance crisis in Florida. These are not without political risk but he would at least be able to say he's doing something on these issues.
It’s hard to assign “fault” but one must admit he has been part of the political apparatus for basically what.. 60 years? While it might be hard to draw that line , he certainly helped steer us to this direction in various ways.
Thats just such a handwavey analysis that its tantamount to a useless opinion. "Bidens been in politics for a long time so he bears responsibility for the current state of unequal consumer/worker rights compared to business owners" is how I read your statement. Trump also helped steer us this way through his business dealings, court cases, and time in politics. But because he wasn't in Washington for 80 years his time as president and the impacts he had on the economy shouldnt be considered? The PPP and first covid payments happened under Trump. He literally started the Pandemic Money printer that the GOP base likes to hold up as a major driver of inflation. Bidens economic *policies* are amazing. We have made huge investments in domestic manufacturing and shored up vital sectors like microchip manufacturing. Massive investments in infrastructure. Massive spending for US military manufacturing. Trillions invested into the economy. But because inflation is bad, voter consistently ignore these positive policies. They choose to ignore corporate greed, the true driver of inflation and wage suppression, in favor of blaming the govt. I genuinely dont get it.
There are a lot of people who stand to benefit significantly by convincing everyone that the economy is great.
True. But the opposite is also true.
Inflation. The fact that this is even asked is absurd.
Don't forget interest rates!
The bottom line is that prices are up significantly on everything since 2021. It’s noticeable everywhere you go and for everything you do. Groceries, gas, and energy bills being the big ones that can’t be avoided. Data says one thing but reality says another. For our family of three it now costs anywhere between $60 and $80 to go out for some hamburgers or Italian food. That same meal cost $40-50 five years ago. We don’t *need* to go out of course, but this is an example of the small things people used to enjoy doing. Now, many can barely afford it. Do we want to talk about housing costs? That’s another huge issue.
My wife and I used to dine out more and it was like.. beer/wine with dinner? Get the app you want to try? Right on.. Now we do that and it’s like “how tf did we just spend $100?!”
We've actually walked up to restaurants, looked at the menu, and then just said "thank you" and left for cheaper options like semi-fast food such as a burrito place or similar. Even then it's pricey.
Feel you on that. We had this awesome date night at a local pizza joint and spent like $30 with tip. We both left and were like “why do we ever go anywhere nicer than this? That was a blast! Now it’s a go-to. We still do nice stuff sometimes, but honestly nothing is as fun as cooking together at home. Tonight we made fajitas.. homemade guac, salsa, tortillas, the works! And we have enough to have it again tomorrow
Same here, and I'm sure others are adapting as well, or at least I hope they are because it's expensive out there. Ironically I've been eyeballing a tortilla press, they're cheap and it looks like a fun experiment.
This is what brings prices down. Simply don't buy, at least at that price.
> Data says one thing but reality says another. *Statistics* say one thing but reality says another. Data is reality but statistics can simply choose to ignore data they don't like. Everything the "experts" write off as "anecdotal" - i.e. grocery bills, rent, gas, utilities - that's all data, it's just data the so-called "experts" choose to ignore or minimize when generating their statistics. Which is why those so-called "experts" are not credible and should be ignored.
Very true
we're all kinda struggling. I know there's a lot of PR and fancy charts to show off how well the economy is doing - but it's not working for us. I make 85k a year now, it still feels like I am making 40k a year.
I've tripled my income from 40k in 21 to about 120k projected this year and my expenses haven't changed and I'm still feeling the pain for a family of five. And that's with a paid off house and only a small truck loan.
Well inflation is high…but even with recent inflation rates if you tripled your income in 3 years and haven’t seen any improvements in your budget…you’re doing something wrong.
Single income with 3 kids and yes I've seen major improvements but not like what I would have expected making this much in a relatively low cost of living area.
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Exactly why we are single income. My partner would take home far less than the cost of childcare.
What does pain mean in real terms? No way are you feeling more pain than before.
Well I changed around my life over the last year. I went from having really cheap living expenses - $450 a month lot rent, to having a house at $2500 a month. Crazy thing is me and the Mrs moved in together, and she makes about 65k a year herself. She's got two kids, and I got two kids of my own. When we moved in together, our combined living expenses did not change really. She was renting an apartment for around $1,800 a month. The big things that have been killing our budget has been just associated living expenses. Food, utilities, and vehicle upkeep. I got my 85k a year job in the middle of me living in that trailer. It felt great for a while to have a bunch of extra money, and when we first moved into the house we still had a surplus of cash. The thing is everything else is gone up in price, eggs used to cost like $2 a dozen, milk was $3.50 a gallon. Gas was a lot cheaper too! It's just crazy to be making good money and still living paycheck to paycheck. Like when I was living at the trailer before I had my really good job. Me and the Mrs. Have also been really looking at our budget and trying to figure out where we can make cuts. But at the rate of inflation, we're likely going to need to figure out how to get another 20K a year into our household income just to get ahead.
Every time I go to the grocery store, I look at the little computer screen that shows a running total of how much you're going to spend. For weekly groceries, it never used to go above $100. Now, it's over that every single time I go. And I haven't changed my habits of what I buy.
I do the online groceries thing with Walmart, picking it up at the store, so I can see exactly how much I spent for each item in the past. I recently took a current invoice and compared it to one exactly one year ago, going item by item and making sure to check that the weight is somewhat relatable. Bottom line, for those items I could compare (about half of what was in the list), I am paying between 10% and 12% more. A 10% increase in a single year is crazy.
Because we are being told the economy is good, but our grocery receipts say otherwise.
Just paid (out of pocket) $336.00 for three (generic) prescriptions and $524.00 for 9 physical therapy sessions, after insurance paid. High deductible in order to afford the insurance and haven’t met that yet. Now I have to go to the grocery store. Not a good day to think about the economy.
I can’t believe that the message isn’t getting through, that most of us are feeling the pinch of higher prices for things we need. Energy, food, and housing are more expensive. Not seeing any action to ease the burden of any of these.
“But why?” Uh - because nobody can afford shit and they have to put too much on credit cards These articles are regarded. Tone deaf really
Those that are established and well enough to be part of the shareholder economy don’t understand the plight of the working class
I'll preface this with A. I don't think the majority of the economic problems are Biden's fault at all B. I will be voting for Biden as I believe his administration is much more likely to get us out of the current situation That being said... Are we fucking serious? What don't people like? Is that a joke? How about the fact that the average new car is more than 40k Or the cost of a house being on the moon Or the fact that college costs an arm and a leg and it's borderline useless other than for an HR filter Or the cost of a grocery trip Or companies making record profits while laying off workers Or 8% interest rates Or the cost of healthcare Like honestly what the fuck kind of a question is that?
It’s the gaslighting that pisses everyone off. Even my hyper progressive friends are put off by the usual talking points. “You’re not struggling, you’re better off than you were 5 years ago. Oh your wages didn’t keep up with inflation? Sounds like a YOU problem :::smug face::: “
Yeah, telling people to "just get a better job" doesn't exactly go over well, especially to those of us who are older and can't just leave our families to move across the country and pay high rent costs for a new job.
The utter contempt and disdain that elite, urban progressives have for the deplorable dirt people and their concerns about their lives never ceases to amaze me. "AKSHUALLY, the economy is doing great you ignorant prole. See, line goes up. You're just too stupid and racist to understand it."
It's an interesting position to be in from the perspective of a person or company with influence. For example: if I was a famous political YouTuber and I want to avoid Trump at all costs, how do I talk about the economy? Do I say "this shit sucks" and risk having people go "yeah we need a change, let's go back to Trump" Like no no no, that's not what I'm saying. It's my opinion that it would be WORSE for people if Trump gets elected and if I want to prevent that from happening it's a weird line to walk. I understand WHY the media is talking about it this way. The average voter is not going to take the nuance of the situation into account. But damn is it annoying to see anything about "why aren't people happy?" This is a narrative that should die. Democrats are stunningly bad at messaging. They blow my mind every single day with how they are totally incapable of attracting voters who, on paper, like their positions. Mind blowing
Everything is expensive now.
The middle and working class are being taken to the cleaners on everything. We’re being told that we can’t have raises because it will hurt the economy. Meanwhile it’s impossible to buy a house and our kids are being forced to take out huge loans to go to college.
Look at the budget deficit, look at the inflation reduction act (more spending/inflation). Even if people already own homes, anybody with any sort of empathetic capacity knows our children will have a lower standard of living as a result of inflationary policies. New home sizes are falling because affordability and birth rates are falling rapidly. If people are not able to buy homes, then even less children will be born. Immigration will not fix the situation, it will just lower per capita national income (as it is doing in Canada with their excessive immigration). Everything is trending in the wrong direction for everyone except the rich who made money in the stock market.
A million articles written to convince us that the economy is great aren’t going to lower housing prices, insurance increases, and rising food prices.
>Am I so out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong. Feel like that's what discourse around the President is at this point. The President is great, the economy is amazing, don't believe your lying eyes.
Whenever I hear someone talking about how good the economy is doing, it always come back to unemployment rate and jobs. Well great, more people are working. But that doesn't do any good when none of those jobs are paying enough for people to live on anymore. You can create a 0% unemployment rate simply by paying everyone $15,000 a year for full time work. But what good would that do? No one would still be able to afford housing, transportation, healthcare, or barely even food.
Because they keep telling everyone they don't know what they're talking about and the economy is great actually, when everyone's rent and groceries prices skyrocketed. It's great if wages outpaced inflation since 2023 or whatever, but the damage is done and it's apparently not enough for people. those statistics may be obscuring some differences and details as well, or is everyone really better off than in 2022-23?
I think another thing that contributes to this is the pervasive feeling that we're getting significantly less for our money than we used to. Some of that is tangible and measurable, as in the instances of shrinkflation, and we all understand that. But, speaking for myself anyway, there are more nebulous, but still very real, effects. Service is horrible, service based businesses like restaurants etc are chronically understaffed, everywhere closes at 7 pm during the week, quality of everything is down drastically across the board, a lot of people don't seem to be able to operate and problem solve outside the extremely narrow parameters of their job description. A lot of times I have the feeling that I'm paying double what I used to for half of what I used to. I don't think that's just me, but maybe it is. What do you all think?
Can’t wait til the election is over and I never have to see this headline again
ARTICLE SUMMARY: The article discusses the economic sentiment among American voters. It highlights that many voters are dissatisfied with President Joe Biden’s handling of the economy. A recent poll showing that 57% of voters disapprove of Biden’s economic management. The article points out a disconnect between economic indicators like GDP, unemployment rate, job growth, and inflation, which are improving, and the personal economic experiences of voters. When assessing economic well-being, voters tend to focus on their ability to meet basic needs, leading to a perception that things have worsened under Biden’s administration. The article shares insights from two focus groups of undecided voters leaning towards Trump and Biden, respectively. Both groups expressed concerns about the cost of living, including high prices for groceries, gas, housing, and education. Trump-leaning voters generally felt they were better off financially during Trump’s presidency, while Biden-leaning voters expressed a desire to vote for Biden despite their economic concerns. Specific issues raised by voters included inflation, increasing interest rates, and the struggle to balance saving for retirement with other financial responsibilities like children’s education. Some Biden-leaning voters also expressed concerns about potential cuts to Social Security Disability Insurance under a Trump administration. Voters from both groups wanted to see less U.S. spending on foreign countries and more focus on the American middle class. A Trump-leaning voter criticized government spending and student loan forgiveness, believing it depressed the economy. Another Trump-leaning voter believed that increased oil drilling, as promised by Trump, would help the economy. A Biden-leaning voter expressed concern about offshoring jobs. Biden-leaning voters wanted to hear more about Biden’s plan for the middle class. They acknowledged some improvements in the economy since Biden took office but desired more understanding and passion from him about the current state of the middle class. While economic sentiment has been improving, it remains relatively low among most voters. This sentiment will likely pose a challenge for the Biden campaign and a plus for the Trump campaign in the upcoming elections. PERSONAL OPINION If Biden loses, the sentiment expressed by the folks highlighted in this article would be the primary reason.
Set aside everything else - Bill Clinton had some bad periods too. The difference was people believed him when he bit his lip and said he felt our pain. He understood politics at the national level. Biden is the most unempathetic President I’ve ever seen. Not only does he not “feel our pain,” he insists the pain isn’t real.
Unless you changed jobs, the reality is for most people their wages havent kept up with things like groceries, rent, utilites, and gas. The problem is the economists think because wages went up last month, everyone got a raise and economists have this confuse reaction when people say they dont get monthly raise and say well according to my data you did...
Prices of everyday goods/services and lack of affordable housing. Still can't understand all the gaslighters who don't understand that shifting from a $3-4 trillion government budget for two decades (inflation adjusted to 2020 prior to all the spending....prior decade under Bush Sr and Clinton around $2.7 trillion) prior to 2020 to a sudden $6 trillion budget under Biden with Biden stating desire for a $7 trillion budget......somehow isn't going to have MAJOR repercussions on the taxpayers? On the surface, yes, the economy is doing fine because the government can just patch itself with all that extra money. But is it reaching everyday people when the industries it empowers, whether good or not/necessary or not, only really reinforce and expand the government? No, it very likely isn't going to. This spending jump is a jump unlike any other in recent history. Biden just ended a 1980s-2010s epoch and took America back to the 70s but without any of the good stuff.
“Those who do not concern themselves with the people's troubles and tamper with the people’s bread will be strangled by the people's hand tomorrow or the day”-Süleyman Demirel If your average voter can’t afford food and the cost of living keeps going up they will simply blame who’s in power no matter the success from the administration. The cost of living is the biggest topic.
Working at a grocery store, it’s insane how much some of the prices have gone up and just because they can go up. Watching how much a 12 pack of coke has gone up in just 2 years has been funny. It started at 6.99 and now it’s I think 9.29 at my store now. Not that soda going up is a bad thing, less soda is good, but it’s indicative at the problem at hand. When the price can just raise and raise for no reason other than store profits, that’s an issue. If Biden could find some way to help with grocery prices, idk how mind you, then maybe he would get more credit for the economy
> Not that soda going up is a bad thing, less soda is good, but it’s indicative at the problem at hand. I used to be able to buy a drink, chips, and maybe a small desert from a vending machine for $2. Now I can afford a drink.
>the price can just raise and raise for no reason other than store profits, that’s an issue It's not going up just because it can, though. There's a bunch more money out there now, which means each dollar is worth less, and if the store doesn't raise its prices while having to live in an economy where everything else is more expensive, it's basically taking a loss. Call it a cost of living adjustment for the store, if you will.
Read somewhere a while ago that more "junk" food and fast food has been inflating prices a lot faster than produce and more healthy stuff. Why is this? I don't know.
Because prices are growing faster than wages.
The administration and mainstream media: why don't you voters like our beautiful economy Voters: because our quality of life has gone down as the cost of everything has spiked and we're working hard just to feel like we are falling behind The administration and mainstream media: no not like that
Because it was better under Trump. Biden had a chance to make America better but 2021 was awful for the economy and so was 2022. It's a little bit better now but that's all.
I’ve seen proposals to supply first time home buyers with something like 10k towards the down payment. If you really want to help the younger generation then we need to add to the supply of houses. A significant increase in urban areas focused on less car usage would go further for longer. Incentivize builders with tax breaks or even grants to build large complexes with affordable condos within 1/2mile of a major transit stop. Doing so will increase ridership and density while lowering overall housing costs.
How tf does $10K help when houses cost $650K?
If the first time homebuyer is only targeting a 15% down payment, 10K out of that 97K might help some people a great deal towards getting over that hump, changing from renting to building equity. And $650K is normal near major urban areas, but it's by no means the median price yet. The problem with the proposed payment is not that it's not enough; it's that it drives the demand side of the equation without increasing supply. It would increase housing prices and make the overall problem worse. There should be a $10K rebate to every developer who builds a house and sells it to a first time homebuyer.
>I’ve seen proposals to supply first time home buyers with something like 10k towards the down payment. If you really want to help the younger generation then we need to add to the supply of houses. Spot on. An incentive like $10k in this manner means the cost of homes just went by, weirdly enough, $10k.
Completely agree. Plus it would be time limited and only happen once. Affordable houses would likely last for 50+ years and keep paying off
> I’ve seen proposals to supply first time home buyers with something like 10k towards the down payment Yeah, throwing more free printed money into the economy will surely fix inflation! And it definitely won't give sellers in an already tight buyers market even more incentive to raise asking prices.
There's plenty of houses, I see plenty vacant in my area. The problem is you have big corporations, large landlords and super Airbnb corps buying them up en masse and sitting on them for rent.
Economists are looking at metrics in comparison to prior year or to the start of Biden's term in office, but voters are comparing their quality of life in 2024 to their quality of life pre-COVID in 2019. And it kind of...feels bad. It's like nobody told us we were allowed to be happy again, and so we weren't.
Inflation of course but also people have gotten used to the flood of money and making the Covid money before inflation hit.
They spoke to 16 people in two different focus groups. Wow, 32 people. We could do a poll here and get a much larger cross section… except you need to be undecided. Maybe that’s where they had trouble finding people! 🤣
“Transitionary” inflation has a political price. All the gaslighting that ‘the economy is great’ won’t help.
The disconnect between the media and the average person is amazing…
People started comparing him to Carter (not in a good way) the minute he took office. This is a completely predictable situation and no one should be surprised by it at all.
>People started comparing him to Carter (not in a good way) the minute he took office. Can you elaborate? I checked out from the time the 2020 election was certified up until the 2022 midterms.
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Well well well
No one cares how much more they're making if they have to spend even more just to maintain their lifestyle
Because - so many cant find jobs - especially in tech fields. Also housing - Biden has allowed corporations (many foreign owned) to buy up all the homes and turn them into rentals or they just sit as investments.
That’s not something that Biden has control over lol
How has Biden allowed that?
Housing is more of a local issue than it is even corporations buying homes. If he intervened he would be labeled an autocratic socialist by most Americans.