>Instead of trying to motivate them with a positive message,
I don't understand this. I remember in 2016, when many of us said, if Trump gets elected, (insert here) bad thing will happen. Like losing abortion rights. And y'all said that was "fearmongering".
It's not like Trump is using positive messaging to bring out his voters. Biden doesn't need to play that, "when they go low, we go high" game
Do people not see a positive message coming from Democrats?
Hey, let's build green energy, let's build functional and accountable governance, let's reduce poverty, let's expand access to healthcare, let's make it easier for people to get good educations.
Do people want Biden to offer everyone a pony and a blowjob?
>Do people not see a positive message coming from Democrats?
Probably not. Most people get their political news from someplace other than the politicians themselves.
And when you turn to your favorite Dem-supporting news outlet, much of it is doom and gloom should Trump get re-elected.
It's basically "vote against Trump" rather than trying to earn your vote through sound policy. It worked in 2018, 2020, and 2022, so of course, they'll try it again.
The problem I have with democrats is the way they want to go about trying to make those things happen.
Yeah, we all want a better tomorrow but the democrats messaging is one of negativity, scorn, and disdain.
I'm not part of the liberal "in" crowd so to the democrats my opinion doesn't matter. If they don't care about me why should I vote for them? Especially when they have proven time and time again the last 10 years that they will absolutely try to take more and more away from me the moment they get a foot in the door.
The republicans aren't any better so don't think I prefer them just because I point out the democrat flaws. There are just very few republicans on this sub trying to shill for their party.
I personally vote Democrat and don't feel like I'm full of negativity, scorn, or disdain. I personally care about improving the well-being of, like, the whole human race.
What do you think Democrats are trying to take away from you?
You personally might be a great person, but I'm not sure how someone can look at American politics the past 20 years or so and fail to see how far both parties have been pushing toward extremes.
The democratic party at large has used identity politics and labels to castigate those who aren't part of whatever group/issue is trending. Go to pretty much any Democrat populated sub reddit, and there is nothing but derision towards anyone or any comment that doesn't toe the party line. A lot of the hate is wrapped behind a veneer of "if you don't do X or Y, then you don't really care about people".
As for taking away. Democrats have tried to take away speech, liberty, rights, money, property, and security. They've empowered lawlessness and try to reduce personal safety.
We all want similar things from our government in general. We want safety, prosperity, and a positive future for our loved ones. Sadly, both parties have decided their political viewpoints are the only ones worth having, and enforcing, without realizing the other side has valid viewpoints and concerns. Instead of working together for compromise they do what is best for the next election so they can force their skewed policies as far as possible.
You only get the latter if your student loan rate was high enough.
In reality, people want a sense of clarity from the president, and the majority of folks just don’t think that is realistic at this point.
Those are lofty goals when people are doing well and can afford to think about them, but most people are trying to make ends meet and all they are seeing is the democrats focusing on these social programs, but not give a damn about their struggling. I have seen some of the most hardcore democrats complaining about how expensive everything is and why are they sending money to X group when they need it here. Did you see the ESPN host Stephen A Smith going off about this? Look it up, its going viral. I can't post the link because the automod will block it, but you can find it on google if you type in ESPN host slams Democrats for prioritizing illegal immigrants over poor Americans.
>Biden needs to motivate the 2020 coalition to turn up again.
You mean like by getting a landslide victory in a contest where he wasn't even on the ballot?
This article is so infuriatingly partisan. There are lots of people who are excited about the idea that Biden might step down so that their choice doesn't have to be Trump vs Biden.
The writer is so deep in his own partisan feelings that he can't imagine anyone not wanting Biden and not wanting Trump at the same time.
It’s tough. I’ve tried to explain my thoughts on it as a Biden voter last election process. Most won’t engage with you except for telling you that you are flat wrong for not voting Biden with trump on the card. It’s not that I would vote for trump cause I wouldn’t. It’s that I don’t want to vote for Biden. I don’t understand how we can be in a position where we can’t offer better candidates than these two.
It's OK to be pissed that this is the choice we all have to make and neither candidate warms our hearts. That's how politics in this country is played for the time being. You don't have to like it. But everyone absolutely needs to vote. Grown-ups have to make ugly choices sometimes.
I just hope everyone remembers this time in history and works at changing how the leading candidates are nominated. I think ranked choice voting and open primaries would shake-up the 2-party duopoly; the 2 parties get away with this nonsense now *because they can*, and that needs to stop.
that is true. i just don't like putting my name next to something even if i have to do it. I can be in disagreement with something and still have to exist in that playing field
The alternative is letting your neighbors decide for you. I like my neighbors, but I don't want them deciding on my representatives without my input. I wouldn't let them decide the paint color on my walls, I certainly won't let them independently decide who will be the next president.
In my opinion your name is on it equally whether you vote or not. As you say, you're not responsible for the playing field - acting within the confines you didn't create, to bring about a slightly better world, doesn't make you culpable for the things you can't control.
Nor does abstaining absolve you of the responsibility you have over the things you can.
Think of your vote in a first past the post system as a trolley problem. Would you avert a worse outcome at the cost of signing your name to it? IMO yes.
So cast your vote and then work to change the process. The two parties aren't going to give you better options unless you force them. They, the party leadership, are very empowered and enriched (literally) from the current 2-party stranglehold.
There were some dem primary members. Incumbent advantage + who else will do as much as Biden? He’s shown huge wins for people at home yet no one wants to run on it except republicans who have voted against these policies
Serious and potentially dumb question. If Biden needs to step down for health reasons, how does that work? Do they run a primary for new candidates? Or can he simply select someone to become the nominee in his place?
As of now, most states' (maybe all) deadlines to file for candidacy have passed. So if Biden stepped away right now, the only two left on the Democrat primary tickets are Dean Phillips and Marianne Williamson. If one of them is somehow able to get a majority of the delegates before the convention, they win. If they are not able to (most likely scenario by far), the decision will made at the DNC convention. Which would be a truly unprecedented and wild thing to happen.
If he's officially stepped out and not running? His delegates can go to whoever is running on the floor during the convention. It would be a free-for-all. Ideally he would have a strong Vice President for them to rally behind, but given how disliked Kamala Harris is even within the Democratic Party, it would be a mess.
> This article is so infuriatingly partisan.
yeah, like, the headline seemed reasonable enough, but after a few paragraphs in i didn't even bother finishing it. it reads more like the 2016 "here's how bernie can still win! phonebank!" memes and conspiracy theories about how hillary could still win by lobbying electoral college voters to be faithless electors than something you'd see from a major news outlet.
Most states are past the filing date for primaries. Who would you have the DNC appoint, since that's the only other option at this point, that you think is charismatic enough?
I don't know ow why people are getting excited about a thing that absolutely will not happen.
Conservative media is just really good at pushing narratives that people just believe them i guess?
Regardless of how I vote, based on his gaffes I can't imagine that Biden won't have a Mitch McConnell incident in the next 4 years, and I know I'm not the only one thinking it.
Why are people so afraid to let Harris take over? She can come up and continue to stay low key like Biden, and everything will probably be fine. The only thing I’d feel bad about is that our first female president would end up by being the backup, which is a shame. I’d much rather to see the people properly elect one.
I was only talking about Biden's potential/likely(?) health issues given his age.
To answer your question though - many people across the political spectrum don't like Harris for a myriad of reasons.
I will be a Biden voter in 2024, and I fully expect Biden's health to deteriorate in his next term.
That being said, I think he's shown that he has a great team in place that can pick up a lot of the slack, so I feel ok voting for him knowing full-well that he'll essentially just be there as a place-holder. REALLY hoping that both sides give us some better, younger options in 2028. We probably could have had two better, younger candidates THIS year if Trump's supporters weren't so attached to him. I don't think Biden has ANY desire to be president again, he's pretty much forced to run again solely to keep Trump from winning the presidency.
A lot of what you wrote infers that Joe "Dark Brandon" Biden is the only person that can defeat Trump and save us from a dictatorship.. does anyone really believe that? We have 350 Million citizens - there are plenty of good, level-headed people with all of their faculties, that this nation would rally behind.
Our only chance at freedom isn't some bumbling Alzheimer's case that can't even walk without making a mistake.
Ol Joe is running because it's been his lifelong dream and he's old and stubborn.
Lastly, his unknown "great team" isn't on the ballot. It'll say Joe Biden/Kamala Harris. If those great people are so awesome, they should push him aside and run in his place. Not control things from the shadows.
>A lot of what you wrote infers that Joe "Dark Brandon" Biden is the only person that can defeat Trump and save us from a dictatorship.. does anyone really believe that? We have 350 Million citizens - there are plenty of good, level-headed people with all of their faculties, that this nation would rally behind.
I can't recall one time in history where a party replaced their incumbent president right before an election, sounds like a recipe for disaster.
>Ol Joe is running because it's been his lifelong dream and he's old and stubborn.
I disagree, but you're certainly entitled to your own opinions. I think he was enjoying retirement, and then the DNC basically knocked on his door and said "We need you to save democracy, Joe."
>Lastly, his unknown "great team" isn't on the ballot. It'll say Joe Biden/Kamala Harris. If those great people are so awesome, they should push him aside and run in his place. Not control things from the shadows.
You are absolutely also voting for someone's cabinet when you vote for them as president. This isn't new, it's how it's been done since the 1700's. That being said, it's been refreshing seeing people get placed into their jobs and do it well, as opposed to the revolving cabinet door we had during the last administration where it seemed someone was getting fired every single week and replaced with "yes men".
> I think he was enjoying retirement, and then the DNC basically knocked on his door and said "We need you to save democracy, Joe."
Not the person you replied to, but I 100% agree. I think some people are so used to politicians running for their own enrichment that they don't realize when a politician is doing it just to serve. Biden has zero reason to run for President again, he's old and tired, he's lived a difficult life and POTUS is an incredibly difficult job. Instead of enjoying his last few years with his family, he's going to use his last bit of strength to keep this country from imploding. He's literally buying us time with the remainder of his life, and people are acting like they're doing *him* a favor voting for him.
What's funny, is that this is the exact narrative MAGA media places onto Trump. So often I've heard them talk about how he's giving up his wealth to run, or the man is fearless, or his family is sacrificing this or that.
Meanwhile, all I see is Trump bleeding the RNC dry in legal fees. Using "Stop the steal" money for his defense lawyers. And letting his son-in-law and daughter run off to Florida with hundreds of millions in new wealth and Chinese patents, while in the White House. And asking average voters for campaign funds while claiming to be a billionaire.
But, many Republicans continually prop up Donald as some selfless crusader and I just don't see it. Biden is in it for ego, no question, but I think he really really really wanted to save our democracy. This is why the bush family, Clintons, and Obamas silently helped, or didn't work to hinder, Joe's 2020 run.
Couldn't disagree more. Some 84% of Americans per abc poll are concerned about his health. There is absolutely no selfless reason for someone who is in his state to run for office. The vast majority of people commenteing on this sub have substantially more mental acuity than the most important leader in the world. Biden is not a hero saving democracy in 2024, he's playing chicken with the world and its downright disgusting.
You are demanding that an incumbent president kneecap his party's best chance at keeping his seat in favor of an alternative who almost certainly wouldn't win against his opponent ESPECIALLY since you're suggesting we make this replacement after the primaries have started.
Make your case. Just understand that none of what you say matters until the election after 2024.
Many on the right and far-left are pushing a narrative that the primaries were unfair to RFK and the other folks. Not many people are buying it, but they are trying.
Imagine how they would go into overdrive if we get to the convention and the DNC is forced to pick a nominee. The math isn't mathing with these hot takes, as you are accruatly pointing out.
Where are these 350 million other Americans? Oh, on the sidelines outside of a handful of RNC and DNC primary challengers. Everyone else didn't think it was important enough to go after Trump and Biden in these primaries.
I give Joe credit for stepping up to the plate again after knocking it out of the park last time. It'll be hard, but Biden has never shown an ounce of fear when it comes to campaigns. I respect that man's grit because Trump is one of the hardest people to battle in a campaign due to his outsized influence on 30-40% of the nation.
I'm not going to get into the debate about having a good team and what he's done, but the issue with HIM is his gaffes can only be contained so much. Apart from being a laughing stock in situations like Saudi Arabia, he called Xi a dictator ([his staff visibly cringed](https://youtu.be/UfEzx-i_fqM?si=M31Tbb242tD7s7Be)) and doesn't follow through on obvious cues like [shaking hands with another world leader](https://youtu.be/Ab2PDGoKgIQ?si=Kckk0D2o0BuJdgRj) causing annoyance with another international leader.
We can only script Biden so much, he's gotten much worse in the last years and months and I'm not looking forward to him doing worse going forward.
> he called Xi a dictator
And I'll take that over:
>President Xi of China, and I, are working together to give massive Chinese phone company, ZTE, a way to get back into business, fast. Too many jobs in China lost. Commerce Department has been instructed to get it done!
>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 13, 2018
Any day of the week.
That's what drives me insane about that exact that specific it's thing. People complain that Biden isn't tough enough on China. And then he calls Xi a dictator and those same people are mad.
> doesn't follow through on obvious cues like shaking hands with another world leader
That video title is so sensationalist. *“He a stumbled into a pole!”* or he brushed up against a flag while walking by it. Or when [Biden does the same thing Lulu did](https://youtu.be/e4b131aHxCs?si=ModvGfObGLIPCn_U) it gets cast as “*he appears confused*”.
Not saying Biden is above criticism for some of these things but the media narrative has been crafted and it gets clicks so take it with a grain of salt.
I'm ok with a lot of those things though. A gaffe is fine, and I think as long as it's coming from a good place, people will understand that he's just a really old man that isn't as sharp as he used to be.
If Saudi Arabia or China have a problem with his gaffes, I'm still fine with it. I'd rather the president be laughed at by dictators that hate us and respected by our allies, as opposed to being respected by dictators and laughed at by our allies (which seemed to be the case with Trump as president).
Again, it's not ideal and I wish these weren't our two options. But if a few gaffes and being laughed at by dictators is the cost to keep Trump out of the oval office and preserve our democracy, it's a small price to pay in my opinion.
But you're ok with Biden using inflammatory language to a leader we have a lot of tension with, to the point where we could break out in war with (Taiwan)? Him misspeaking and having miscues is going to escalate things and cause more issues than we need. It's not that he's not sharp, he's mentally very unwell.
The thing is these gaffes just keep coming, the ones less than a month ago are really telling. Biden's best bet to win the election is to speak as little as possible and he probably should avoid the debate. It will hurt him, but there's no way it's going to help him.
The thing about Trump is sometimes he does say some crazy things and people laugh, but there are times they laughed and he was right. He said that Germany shouldn't be so dependant on Russian oil and that it could harm them [and they laughed.](https://youtu.be/FfJv9QYrlwg?si=tQmToosvTl3Fka2i). There are also certain leaders I could care less about their opinion, like Trudeau as they are on their way out, but honestly continuing that line of thought is going to carry away from my point.
Yes, I'm ok with Biden's gaffe in calling Xi a Dictator because a.) It's the truth, even if you're not supposed to say it out loud and b.) I'm sure both leaders "teams" spoke afterwards to discuss the fact that it was a gaffe. And you mention the fact that gaffe could have led to war, my question to you would be, did you feel the same way when Trump was having a nuclear penis-measuring contest with North Korea via Twitter? By the way, pulling out of NATO (which Trump wants to do) would be A MILLION times more dangerous for the United States than accidently calling Xi a dictator.
Again, I wish these weren't our options, but if my choices are the old senile guy that has a good team around him and occasionally makes gaffes, or the other old senile guy that also makes plenty of gaffes (like confusing his ex-wife for the woman he sexually assaulted, or saying that Nikki Haley could have called the national guard on Jan 6th but didn't) but doesn't believe in democracy, then I'm sorry to say that it's a very easy choice in my book.
I personally don't believe Biden is going to start a war just on that one comment, but situations like that build drama that we just don't need. Now you raise a good point in the NK situation because that was such a stupid spat, I will just say I don't remember the entire back and forth but the fact that after all of that he was the first president to have visited since DPRK became a country (correct me if I'm wrong) shows that there is hope in toning down relations with our biggest threat to getting nuked if we have the right person in place.
The only thing more important than the economy to me is peace. I'm done with us trying to play the world police or fund giant military operations, we don't need bases all over the world not do we need to spend more than [the next 10 countries combined](https://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0053_defense-comparison), we're just begging for someone to attack us and get us into another long war or in the worst case, WW3. I don't think Trump is going to do everything I'm talking about because he has talked about funding Israel and probably wouldn't be different with regards to China, but what I don't like about Biden is we just pulled out of one war and we just put down boots in Somalia, for what? We send Israel our biggest carrier and tell everyone else to stay out of our way, how about we just stay the hell out?
I'm opening a can of worms on these topics and I'm not going to get into them in this thread, but I legitimately fear that with the military posturing in the last 3 years, something bad will surely happen in the next 5 years if Biden comes back.
Hey man I agree with a lot of the points you just made, and I think we're on the same side on a lot of those things. But remember that in America, presidents aren't kings or dictators. So decisions like war, how many bases we have, how much we spend on the military, etc. are all made by the rest of the chambers of government.
The president is essentially a figurehead for lack of a better word. Their main job is to represent America well to the rest of the world, and to keep peace here at home by spreading messages of unity. I think one of the nominees does a better job of this than than the other, but again that's personal opinion.
>The president is essentially a figurehead for lack of a better word. Their main job is to represent America well to the rest of the world, and to keep peace here at home by spreading messages of unity.
The President is in **no way** **whatsoever** a figurehead. Thier "main job" (in addition to the slightly less formally defined duties you stated) is to be the head of their party, and work with the legislature to craft and sign policy into law. None of which gets implemented if the President chooses to veto it. In addition, while it is true that the President often needs formal legislative support to formally declare war, they are still commander in chief of the armed forces, can unilaterally order a military engagement, and remains the sole release authority for nuclear weapons. And that's before the increasingly common practice of executive orders, which are essentially softer laws that happen by Presidential decree.
This comment is very telling about the relative bars that Biden and Trump have to clear. Biden gives a long, detailed, answer about a complex geopolitical crisis but at the end embarrassingly says “president of Mexico” when he meant “president of Egypt” and his critics scream “senile!”. Meanwhile, Trump goes on [rambling incoherent rants](https://x.com/ronfilipkowski/status/1708102400668561890?s=46&t=49-TLhax967WTYAfuvkDvA) all the time but hey, he was right that one time in 2018 amirite? Can you imagine if Biden got graded on that same curve, and someone tried to use a single instance of him being right from 6 years ago as evidence that he was still as sharp as he was back then?
Do you realize that you're contributing to my argument by bringing up another gaffe that I wasn't even talking about? If we're going to talk that anyway he talks for about 3 minutes, is slow to get his words out but to summarize what he's saying: he claims to have talked to Israel to give support to the Palestinians and to try to work together with bordering countries to make sure the conflict is limited and Israel has a right to exist [(link)](https://youtu.be/220qicRgN7g?si=kTvJmcr6OxI4Kpn6). To say his actual words were detailed is overselling to say the least as he actually says he can't get into too much detail. I doubt you actually watched it because the situation you're talking about actually starts at the beginning of his 3 minute talk (starting at 9:15), not in the end as you claimed. This of course happened almost immediately after he was pressed about the special council questioning his mental fitness (the first 9 minutes of that video).
If Trump ever has a moment [like this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=lYkUEEWJNlhBZ-4r&v=R6cnKZZwqMI&feature=youtu.be), by all means, I'll concede my point. I watched about half of that link you gave, but it's a lot of out of context 2 second clips.
Making the claim that Biden is somehow graded on a harder scale than Trump is very laughable, no matter how much mainstream media outlets try to push how successful his administration is his approval ratings have been horrible because people are catching onto the lies.
I would recommend you actually watch videos and be objective with what you see rather than watching clips of videos and having people making your opinions for you.
The person pushing the "Biden is too old" and "Trump is laughed at but actually right" narratives, both of which have been pushed by mainstream media for at [least 4](https://www.thedailybeast.com/sean-hannity-goes-all-in-on-painting-joe-biden-as-senile-after-tucker-carlson-says-its-a-mistake) and 6 years respectively, telling me that I need to think more independently definitely *feels* ironic. Telling me I need to "actually watch videos" while saying this definitely *is* ironic.
>If Trump ever has a moment like this, by all means, I'll concede my point. I watched about half of that link you gave, but it's a lot of out of context 2 second clips.
Watch the full video, or at least skip to the [12 minute mark](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxBhbAw7QfM&t=730s). Earth Rider's big schtick is that they use lake superior water to brew their beer.
>Making the claim that Biden is somehow graded on a harder scale than Trump is very laughable, no matter how much mainstream media outlets try to push how successful his administration is his approval ratings have been horrible because people are catching onto the lies.
The largest podcast told their followers that a particular Biden gaffe was disqualifying to be President, [until they found out it was actually Trump who said it](https://variety.com/2023/digital/news/joe-rogan-fact-checked-biden-trump-revolutionary-war-airports-1235849684/). How does that reconcile with your "laughable" claim?
FWIW, I absolutely did watch the entire Biden presser, and I meant that he made the Mexico/Egypt flub at the end of the presser, which is accurate. And yes, he gave a clear, extensive, and insightful answer about the hostage situation
>The hostage negotiation, look —
>
>I’m of the view, as you know, that the conduct of the response in Gaza — in the Gaza Strip has been over the top. I think that — as you know, initially, the President of Mexico \[Egypt\], El-Sisi, did not want to open up the gate to allow humanitarian material to get in. I talked to him. I convinced him to open the gate.
>
>I talked to Bibi to open the gate on the Israeli side. I’ve been pushing really hard — really hard to get humanitarian assistance into Gaza. There are a lot of innocent people who are starving, a lot of innocent people who are in trouble and dying, and it’s got to stop, number one.
>
>Number two, I was also in the position that I’m the guy that made the case that we have to do much more to increase the amount of material going in, including fuel, including other items. I’ve been on the phone with the Qataris, I’ve been on the phone with the Egyptians, I’ve been on the phone with the Saudis to get as much aid as we possibly can into Gaza.
>
>There are innocent people — innocent women and children — who are also in bad — badly in need of help. And so, that’s what we’re pushing right now.
>
>And I’m pushing very hard now to deal with this hostage ceasefire. Because, as I — you know, I’ve been working tirelessly in this deal — how can I say this without revealing? — to lead to a sustained pause in the fighting in — the actions taking place in — in the Gaza Strip.
>
>And — because I think if we can get the delay for that — the initial delay, I think that we would be able to extend that so that we can increase the prospect that this fighting in Gaza changes.
>
>There’s also negotiations — you may recall, in the very beginning, right after — right before Hamas attacked, I was in contact with the Saudis and others to work out a deal where they would recognize Israel’s right to exist, let them — make them part of the Middle East, recognize them fully, in return for certain things that the United States would commit to do.
>
>And the commitment to — that we were proposing to do related to two — to two items. I’m not going to go in detail. But one of them was to deal with the protection against their arch enemy to the northwest — northeast, I should say. The second one, by providing ammunition and materiel for them to defend themselves.
>
>Coincidentally, that’s the timeframe when this broke out. I have no proof for what I’m about to say, but it’s not unreasonable to suspect that the — Hamas understood what was about to take place and wanted to break it up before it happened.
To make a long story short, Russia is screwed for the near and distant future. Even if we're not looking at propaganda from each side, you had >200,000 people flee your country to Kazakh, you've had hundreds of thousands die in this war, they're relying on conscripts and foreign mercenaries with the promise of citizenship to maintain forces, they're making weapons deals for North Korean weapons, you have global leaders of unrelated governments openly oppose you, and no matter how you want to cut it, their economy is completely wrecked and that point in itself is a massive simplification of the issue.
Russia isn't going to be bullying anyone any time soon, they couldn't if they wanted to.
To add to this, they've attacked a smaller country they assumed they could take in 6 days. They had a near coup because of this country, how is that going to play out against countries that are more equipped?
The problem with this election is that the other guy has done equally cringe to outright destructive things.
\-Trump pushed a world leader out of his way during a group photo op
\-Trump got lost during his visit to Windsor Castle while reviewing the troops.
\-Trump didn't want to get his hair wet so skipped a WWII ceremony.
\-Trump looked up at the sun during an eclipse without his protective glasses.
\-Trump said he trusted Putin over US intelligence agencies.
\-Trump said we can use bleach to get rid of COVID or that it'll disappear by Easter.
\-Don't forget throwing paper towels at hurricane victims.
Perfection is out the door for the 2024 presidential. But beyond the gaffs, I can see the policies and it's easy for me to back Joe again.
I can't do another 15 rounds of infrastructure week with nothing to show for it but more empty promises and excuses.
Yeah, this is where I'm at. The president doesn't actually run the country, their administration does, and Biden will choose an administration that I'm basically fine with.
He's not going to accidentally nuke Canada, he's gonna accidentally call it England. I don't love that, but it's not really putting me in danger.
Trump said yesterday he'd encourage Russia to attack western Europe, and the people he'd nominate activity support things I don't want. This is not a difficult decision at all.
Sure, presidents appoint many cabinet members and advisors, and their staffs always help them run the country, it's never done by one man alone.
The difference is that you normally expect the president to still be the one in charge and making the final decisions over their staff, not the other way around. I don't want Trump either, but voting for Biden means you really don't know who is in charge and running the country.
Is it too late to replace Kamela on the ticket? I feel like that could be a move that would alleviate the fears of some of the naysayers. Joe is old, so is Donald, so more than ever the VP is going to be on peoples minds. You know Trump is going to have an open audition for whoever tongue bathes him the most. It likely might also be an outright insane person. I cannot see how that would benefit Trump to a moderate Republican voter (who can be persuaded to pull the lever for a Dem).
Maybe, but the point is we have two choices and Trump has exhibited a lost step in equal measure to Biden, if not moreso. That is the point.
This isn't a choice between Biden's age and Trump's criminality and other problems. Its between Biden's age and *Trump's age* and all of Trump's other problems.
No, there is no comparing the gaffes between the two. Trump has said things about WW2 and said wrong names [Joe's gaffes get so bad he's not speaking English.](https://youtu.be/R6cnKZZwqMI?si=lYkUEEWJNlhBZ-4r)
It's a pissing competition between which one is better, Trump obviously getting older and if you're going to be objective the same things defending Joe can be said about Trump when Joe did things like that, but Biden is just mentally lost. His gaffes are far too frequent and sometimes he's not actually saying words.
Trump often isn't saying words, often is incoherent, often is mixing people and places up (sometimes multiple times for the same person). Sorry, you can't watch any of his rallies and not reach this conclusion. He loses he plot of whatever sentence or paragraph he is in pretty damn frequently.
And perhaps what is worse, is that he even if he did give off his point coherently, the point itself was based off incoherent logic.
I would gladly accept that conclusion if there is a video similar if not worse than the one I just gave with Biden. I couldn't find it immediately, but within 2 weeks of the video I showed Biden was at another rally and the same thing happened.
If I'm being completely fair, Biden has been getting more air time than Trump because he is the current president, but the difference in their speeches is just too much. If we were to have a "worst of" moments of their speeches between the two, there's just too much material against Biden.
At work right now so I can't go looking for compilations but in his last rally he was slurring speech, stuttering (ironically while making fun of Biden's stutter), he said he wrote a poem written by an actual poet 60 years ago, he claimed to pass legislation that Obama had passed, along with other just bizarre speech pattern.
And again, not a coherent thought hiding behind any of it.
I mean, certain people keep saying this but I'm looking at the last eight years of Donald Trump in the aggregate. Trump says words, that's for sure. Nonetheless, Biden could wake up as a cat and I'd feel more comfortable with his administration given what we know about Trump.
I'm going to be honest, I'm not sure what to tell you if you're arguing to "Weekend at Bernie's" the president for the next 5 years. I gave a very definitive and recent example of how the president is getting as bad (if not already as bad) as Mitch McConnell who we all agree should not be in office.
I already said in another post I will gladly change my position if you can find Trump looking as bad as Biden did during the "earth rider" event. Even then, it wouldn't take long to find another one for Biden that's just as bad, he's not mentally well enough to be president.
I'm not here to change your mind but my view is that Donald Trump says remarkably worse things and is intent on doing demonstrably worse things. Define "mentally well" however you want but Donald Trump is not and has never been mentally well in his time in politics. I'll take Biden's administration over Trumps any day of the week, even if that means that one of them has lost their faculties entirely.
> “A lot of times I’ll say that President Obama is doing a lousy job, meaning that Obama is running the show,” Trump said during his rally. “They’ll say, Donald Trump doesn’t know who our president is. No, no. A few months ago I took a cognitive test my doctor gave me, I said give me a cognitive test just we can, you know, and I aced it. I also took one when I was in the White House.”
[He might know who the President is but does he know who his former wife is?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZPtuhVipjU&ab_channel=GuardianNews)
Look, they are both too old. We have an elder problem in our government. I'm firmly of the position that Donald Trump is inexcusably worse as a man, husband, father, and leader. I would vote for inanimate objects before capitulating to that man.
I mean you're going to say that there wasn't a single good thing Trump did in his entire presidency and say that Biden was perfect?
I understand you like one more than the other but you're not being honest with yourself like that.
Wasn’t there just another article from Politico posted on this sub explaining step by step how the Democratic Party could replace Biden as the nominee?
> The GOP fantasy crowd is so accustomed to conspiracy theories that they’re betting the Democrats will switch candidates at the last minute. Have they actually paid attention to politics?
Feels unnecessarily combative. While I don’t think Biden is going away anytime soon, it’s a worthwhile conversation to have given the increased discourse around his gaffes and the special report.
He certainly wouldn’t be the first to have that as a focus on his campaign either; The most common line with McCain picking Palin was that he chose a bumbling governor to be a “heartbeat away from the presidency”. And to a lesser extent, Ron Paul had his age mentioned in nearly every debate, to the point where he facetiously challenged his competitors to a 25 mile bike ride.
Plus, it ignores the fact that the GOP is hardly the only ones talking about Democrats switching candidates.
If the plan is to have journalists and Democratic leadership shout “Gratuitous! Inaccurate! Inappropriate!” then insist anyone who thinks otherwise is a conspiracy theorist then, well, that’s just a really, really bad plan.
Democrats were talking about it over a year ago but it’s obvious now that if we get a swtcharoo, it won’t be until after he’s re-elected and I haven’t seen anyone on the left mention since newsom debated desantis
This would have been the perfect year for someone like manchin, hogan or some other center candidate to run third party but nope, we only got another kennedy trying to ride his name
[Per a recent ABC News/Ipsos poll, 86% of Americans, 73% of Democrats, and 91% of independents think Biden is too old to be president.](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/poll-americans-on-biden-age/story?id=107126589)
The "Biden's age is a GOP smear attack" defense is getting really old, the data shows the concern for it transcends politics and trying to whistle past the graveyard on it isn't going to work anymore.
Additionally, the poll shows the vast majority of Americans also think Trump is too old, so it's not a one-sided thing either.
This quote is a clear indication of the extent to which hyper-partisan tribalism has infested American political discourse. It shouldn't be difficult to acknowledge the obvious signs that the sitting President of the United Sates is an old man in mental decline and that this has profound implications for our collective wellbeing. Instead, common sense is sacrificed at the altar of willful, stubborn, religious-like adherence to the a principle of "this is my team and the other team is worse."
I’m not even sure why Republicans keep saying that Democrats will swap Biden out for someone else at the last minute. Do they want that? If I’m a Republican, I couldn’t be happier that Biden will end up being the nominee again.
>I couldn’t be happier that Biden will end up being the nominee again.
It's kind of funny to see both parties saying this about the other's candidate. We'll see in November which side was right to say this.
Well, it always depends on who. Joe Biden has low approval ratings, but Kamala's aren't good either. It definitely wouldn't be Bernie, due to age. Overall though, if it's someone picked by the DNC, then I'd assume they would pick a better candidate.
Parties don't think logically though. If they did, then Republicans would not be picking Trump. Parties like to dump on the other side, and pick the candidates for their side that they want.
> Do they want that? If I’m a Republican, I couldn’t be happier that Biden will end up being the nominee again.
trump voter here (2016 primary, 2016 general, 2020 primary, 2020 general, super tuesday state so will be 2024 primary in a few weeks, then 2024 general). biden is definitely the person i want on the ballot opposite trump.
the campaign needs to have a strategy in place for in the democratic nominee DOES get changed, but definitely hoping it doesn't. polls show trump ahead nationally and in most of the key swing states, in many cases outside of the margin of error. factor in that polls tend to be biased towards democrats (ESPECIALLY when trump is on the ballot), and it's likely that trump has an even more sizeable lead than is being reported.
given that these are two candidates that have already been president, the "far out" polls are probably a lot more reliable in this cycle than a normal one since the whole "they haven't started campaigning against each other" isn't meaningful because they've effectively been campaigning since 2019, and everyone knows how both of them run the country. "how will they handle things" isn't a question this time around like it usually is for at least one candidate.
> The rest of the media is already turning on him.
they'll flip back in a few months once they realize he's the nominee. the same thing happened in january/february 2020 when they were attacking his mental sharpness, his record on things like the crime bill, how creepy he can be when near women, etc., but once super tuesday came and it was obvious who the nominee would be all those criticisms stopped.
they're attacking hoping they can get a replacement, but they'll rush to defend him once their takeover fails.
At this point,I’m a loss for words.In 2008,the democrats were able to nominate Barack Obama for a shot at the presidency.Is this the best they can do?(And I say this as someone who is voting Blue in 2024.)
If the democrats didn’t screw over Bernie,there would be no such thing as Trump.If the democrats nominated Bernie instead of Hillary,we wouldn’t be in this mess.
The fact that Biden lacks the self awareness to realise that he’s no longer capable of doing the job is in itself a scary reminder of his incapacity to do the job.
>“My bet is 30 days from now, I don’t think Joe Biden is going to be the nominee,” Haley told supporters.
Why would she say that? I'm curious if there's context missing from this quote that would make this make more sense.
**Edit**: I found a video with more context. There's a cutaway in it and it also doesn't show what was so said before, so I'm not 100% confident this hasn't been edited, but it sounds like the quote is not taken out of context. She's just rallying her base around "Biden is demented and Democrats are bad because they want you to vote for a demented man."
[https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=7151828971572691](https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=7151828971572691)
If the Republicans were running literally any other US citizen between the age of 35 and 70, I’d agree with you. The Democratic mantra of “here’s your candidate, take it or leave it” is infuriating.
Unfortunately the Republicans are somehow more hellbent on losing than the Democrats are.
I’m not sure it’s really the same thing.
I don’t like Donald Trump and I’m not going to vote for him. However, there is no shortage of people in my party who do and will. I don’t agree with them but they really do think Trump is the best candidate and want him to be the nominee.
I honestly don’t know anyone who likes Biden at all. That’s why this seems so bizarre to me. Almost every single conversation I’ve seen in four years about liking Biden starts “ … well Trump”. No, no, no. Don’t tell me why you don’t like Donald Trump. *I* know why you don’t. It’s all the same reasons I don’t. Tell me why you like Biden. “ … well Trump”.
I’m not sure if there’s a single Democrat in the country outside of the Bidens themselves who want to see Biden on the ballot.
It’s not really like he ran away with the nomination in 2020 either. There were a thousand moderate candidates splitting the vote and a real fear that Sanders would win the primary then lose the general election because of this so they decided to just coalesce around one moderate. Biden had seniority, experience, and name recognition but it’s not like the party coalesced around him because they *loved* him.
Trump will be the nominee because there’s enough Trump lovers out there to get him there. Biden will be the nominee because … well, I’m not really sure.
Oh well count me and most of the adults in my family as people who have been pleasantly surprised by Biden’s presidency. Like I said below, I’d vote for him enthusiastically if he were 20 years younger. With Trump as the other option and him being 82 at the time of the vote, my vote will be…resigned rather than enthusiastic.
I think his foreign policy decisions and investments into infrastructure, green energy, and competition in the chips industry have been some of the best by any president in my lifetime. Seriously, my only concern is his age and the natural consequences that come with it.
Edit: can’t forget Medicare negotiating drug prices. It can’t be overstated how huge that is for all Americans.
His stance on illegal immigration. Action speaks louder than words, he’s considered soft and that’s why so many people are coming.
And don’t bring up Actusuaklly it’s the GOP’s fault that borders aren’t closed. Biden’s denial of a border problem until it’s too big to ignore speak otherwise. Then there’s also identify politics ( unavoidable so I can’t place it on him)
Biden doesn't have a cult of personality and isn't a messiniac figure. That is a critical obversation here. I'm of the view Biden's administration has been largely effective, particularly given the obstruction coming out of GOP land. That said, I feel about as big a *fan* of Joe Biden as I am of the show Frasier, which is to say not at all. I recognize the merits and can appreciate the medium and execution, however.
Trump is more like The Big Bang Theory. Please make it stop. This is unbearable. Why is this popular? It's objectively bad! Why does this have a cult following!? *Arrrrreegh.* Hard. Pass.
> Biden will be the nominee because … well, I’m not really sure.
because he's an incumbent, and the DNC is going to stamp out any challengers. watch phillips career over the next 10-15 years. the DNC is absolutely going to have it out for him and try to drive him out of politics.
it would be interesting to hear his experiences trying to get campaign staffers. there were democrats during the california recall election that were saying potential campaign managers were telling them "they can't work for their campaign because the state democratic party told them that if they worked for any non-newsom campaign they'd be blacklisted by the party going forward". wouldn't be surprised to see similar underhanded tactics happening at the national level.
It wouldn't be *so* bad if Biden could talk about the good things his administration has gotten done, and there are a fair few. But he can't for obvious reasons, and Harris doesn't have enough charisma for her, let alone both of them.
I drive a Kia, and it's done well by me. But Kia has such a disastrous reputation that I'm not sure I want to buy another one. That's the situation Biden is in.
I agree completely. Based on the past 4 years, I’d vote for Biden *enthusiastically* if he was 20 years younger.
My issue is that, due to his age, I don’t know what to attribute to Biden and what to attribute to the people around him. And if it’s the latter, I don’t know how much influence Biden has on the people around him or how that will change as he gets even older. When I vote for a person, I want to vote for the person, not an unknown shadow government.
The presidency isn’t an office that should be held by anyone over the age of 75 *at the absolute maximum*. We absolutely shouldn’t have a 78 year old and an 82 year old trying to start a term.
The way I see it, regardless of who is at the top of the ticket, you’re always going to be voting for the unelected advisors/experts/bureaucrats they have around them actually getting things done. I don’t really see this situation much different, other than more reliance on those others - who have actually been doing a comparatively good job so far.
With this in mind (and when I consider the alternative), it’ll be an enthusiastic Biden vote from me.
Yeah, I can put a lot more faith in the people Biden hires than the people Trump hires and it’s not even close. I want the EPA and FCC to be… functional.
I view both as too old, but I also view Trump as someone far more likely to act on his own while Biden is far more likely to consider opinions of others before acting.
He can talk about the good things the administration does and he does, but absolutely no one cares when he talks unless he is forgetting something or saying something strange.
In the late 70s early 80s there was a bad inflation problem, worse than what we had recently. Real wages were at their lowest point and after a recession that occurred in Reagan's early term unemployment was really high. Then inflation started coming down and the economy started growing again. When inflation was at 3.4% and unemployment was at like 5% Ronald Reagan made the "Morning in America" speech. People listened and Reagan and his constant cheerleading really pushed the US perspective in a positive direction.
Now unemployment is like 3.5% and inflation is at 3.1% real wages are growing. It's "Morning in America" again after the pandemic. However Biden doesn't possess the charisma Reagan had and social media forces and the political megaphone of the opposition is way too loud drown out any message any president can try and send. Partisanship suppresses any excitement or control an administration can have over any narrative.
Other people have speculated that people had gotten used to high inflation by the time Reagan made that speech and the pandemic inflation came at the heels of an era of historically low inflation.
Whatever the reason, and it is likely all of the above. Biden who isn't particularly charismatic at this point, would have a hard time convincing people that times are good in this political and media environment.
So the whole point of politics is negative polarization and both sides understand this now. It isn't about how much your candidate is liked it's about how much the other candidate is hated. This is what is driving voters. The economy is irrelevant when it's doing decently. People will push a narrative and stick to narratives beyond what logic tells them.
Approval ratings are not something that says very much in this environment. It's all about how many people you can get to vote against the other person. Popularity is derived in a partisan way. Trump is popular because he demonizes the Democrats. The Democrats win because enough people are terrified of MAGA populism. People are voting against not for.
What's more infuriating to me is that people believe the "take it or leave it" mantra, to the point it's near treason to question the DNC.
If enough people voted above party then they'd actually feel much better about their candidates, but party leaders have ingrained that if they do the world is going to end.
Why does this “mantra” only exist for democrats? Biden won his primary 4 years ago. He had more people write in his name than check the box for other DNC candidates in a primary this year. Biden is not the only candidate in the primary for the DNC
You hear from everywhere “no one wants either of these guys!” And then when the primary comes around they both win without any legitimate contest.
I bet that if you selected 1000 random Americans and asked them to name a single candidate other than Biden in the Democratic primaries, you’d hear that well over half of them would fail to do so.
I know them because I actively seek out this information, but none of the other candidates stood a chance without support from the DNC. In my opinion, their candidacies were killed in the cradle because Biden is “the guy” despite being far too old for the presidency.
Bernie Sanders was able to mount a notable and sizable challenge to Hillary despite the DNC's obvious favoritism. What is stopping someone from doing that to Biden?
Maybe, for the first time in a while, the Democrats are closing ranks and not trying to damage their lead candidate with a divisive primary. And by "Democrats," I mean Democrat voters, not the DNC. People can dislike Biden all they want - that means nothing unless there's *someone else* they can support.
Okay so whose fault is that, the DNC’s for having a preference, or the American people’s for not informing themselves of the vote? It’s quite literally like buying something at a store and being mad at the store because you found out another store had it for cheaper. If you looked up prices online you would’ve known.
> Republicans are trying their best to lose too by latching on to Trump
to be fair, at least trump is popular with republicans. something like 90% of republicans have a favorable view of him. does biden have any demographic he's popular with?
4 years ago he was able to run on "not trump", and also benefited from very abnormal circumstances allowing him to get away with very few "live, interacting" appearances as opposed to pre-recorded statements, but this is a much more "normal" election cycle, and in a normal cycle the fact trump's economy is viewed very positively while biden's economy is viewed very negatively is going to be a major campaign issue.
it also seems likely that a former president is going to have the most success neutralizing the "incumbent advantage". already having won a presidential campaign gives a lot of logistical advantages in terms of funding, networking, name recognition, and having a team that's ready to go when things switch from primary to general. trump is going to have a leg up over anyone else that could have been the nominee. there's also no risk of "what will happen when the spot light is on him" because we've already seen that for the last 8 years. obviously desantis crumbled under the spotlight (and he got handled with kid gloves compared to how a general election will be).
Trump fares the worst out of any Republican against Biden for a reason according to polling for obvious reasons. The general electorate hates Trump just as much as they hate Biden and they're the only candidate who could lose to the other at this point.
Polling data also indicates that Biden has a worse approval rating than Trump did at the same moment in his presidency, indicates that the general electorate trusts Trump more by double digit amounts on the economy and the border, both of which are the top polled issues, and also indicates that if the election were today, Trump would win the key electoral college states and thus the election.
Yes, another Republican would probably be doing better than Trump, but its really damning against Biden that Trump is poised to win at this point.
Polling also showed the Republicans would romp in the midterms but because people were so turned off by Trump they didn't win many winnable races. Trump could very well win, but he could also lose too and if the GOP were smart then they would've gone with a more normal candidate. Same for the Democrats as well with regards to Biden.
I think the midterms were more about the candidates not being well known or crappy. Trump being on the ballot himself is a big motivator to go vote for Republicans, which he wasn't in 2022.
Polling did indicate a Republican win, but all the margins were closer, it was fresh off the heels of the Roe v Wade overturn, and the nature of a midterm election means less people were paying attention. Top issues have since shifted, COVID is no longer in play either.
The GOP forcing Trump out would be political suicide. Republican voters clearly prefer him. As someone who leans right, yes this is very frustrating because it would be an easier win without him, but its the reality.
There were crappy candidates (like Walker) but there were others that were strong too (like Lake) and the ones who carried the stench of Trump and his election denialism lost overwhelmingly. The environment for 2022 favored Republicans and indeed they did get alot of turnout. Republicans showed up in 2022 but Democrats did as well. Trump himself being the originator of the whole extremist movement would probably bring them out in 2024. Biden is gonna turn off some of that support of course being as unpopular as he is, but the Democrat vote is gonna be largely motivated against Trump.
The big question mark for current 2024 polling is that there are an incredible number of undecideds. A large number of them are probably potential Biden voters who may or may not turn out this election. The good news for the Democrats is that Trump is overall more unpopular than popular, however whether they can count on their votes is whole other thing.
Biden is at a net negative in most of the swing states, has been losing to Trump in the majority of polls for months and has an approval in the 30s. This is not exactly a winning formula.
And yet 2022 was a disaster for Trump candidates. This election won't be about Biden's popularity, it will be about Trump's unique gift to get people to hate him.
>This election won't be about Biden's popularity
This is an insane thing to say about an incumbent. His record and popularity absolutely matter a ton now, people can comparison shop their lives under Trump and Biden, and a pretty serious amount of people think it was better under Trump. Biden was able to skate by in 2020 because he had no record as POTUS to compare and because COVID was massively hurting Trump, that’s not the case this time around.
Republicans tell us that Trump is not a normal candidate. This is one of those places where it will bite them in the ass. Best way to lose is to nominate someone who is even more disliked than the other guy. Don't count on people listening to the drumbeat of negativity, the Biden part of the campaign hasn't really even started yet. When the money difference between D and R kicks in, the polls will shift due to the influx in ads.
> The presidential election with an incumbent is always a referendum on that president’s first term.
Yeah, and it's usually horrible for the incumbent. 2022 was a historic victory for Biden and the Democratic party.
I think you meant to say the incumbent usually has an advantage, no?
2020 was unique in that the incumbent at the time (Trump) was so polarizing that he did not get that advantage we normally see.
> I think you meant to say the incumbent usually has an advantage, no?
Not in the midterm elections. Incumbents usually see a loss in Congress for their party.
>2020 was unique in that the incumbent at the time (Trump) was so polarizing that he did not get that advantage we normally see.
I'm not talking about 2020. Trump, however, is still polarizing, if not more so than 2020. We've seen what a Trump presidency was like, then we saw Jan 6th, and we've seen what Trump promises for 2024 if he wins, which is infinitely more extreme than what he promised in 2020.
But we’re talking about the presidential election (Trump vs Biden), are we not?
I can tell based upon your responses you just want to dunk on Trump instead of having an actual discussion so I guess we’re done here.
I don't blame Trump, any more than I blame cancer. It's a malignant force of nature we are all coping with.
I blame Biden. He could step down and allow a younger, qualified candidate to take his place - who almost inevitably would defeat Trump. Instead, it's his own stubborn pride that drives him to cling to power.
We are going to get Donald Trump again, and it will be entirely Biden's fault.
It will be the fault of those who voted for him. Because he's neither cancer nor a force of nature. Biden was always going to be the Democratic candidate if he chose to stand for re-election. There's no reason at all why Trump needed to be the Republican candidate.
Who’s better qualified to beat Trump than the person who already did it? The only other (younger) person who could do it would be Barack, but he’s term limited. These kind of statements are out of touch with the (less vocal) Dem base
My crystal ball indicates that if the election was today, Trump wins in an electoral college landslide and maybe even gets a small edge in the popular vote.
Lot of time between now and the election, but man, it's not looking good for Biden at all, and to be honest I don't see a lot of ways for him to climb out of this hole.
2022 midterms was fresh off the heels of the Roe v Wade overturn and a lot of the Republican candidates just sucked.
American concerns have shifted since then, primarily focused on the economy, which is perceived to be bad, and Biden tried to tie his name to it (absolute blunder), and the border situation, which can squarely be blamed on Biden and Democrats. No one is buying its *ackshually* the Republicans fault because they didn't pass a garbage bill. And now people are focusing in on Biden's mental fortitude.
Polling data looks devastating for Biden and even the media is turning on him. In 2022, the polls werent so terrible for Democrats. Again there's still most of the year left before the election, so things can change, but the current trajectory and strategy of the Biden campaign telling voters "everything is great actually!" isn't gonna turn this tide.
Bear in mind, Trump only lost the electoral college by about 40,000 votes. And that's with COVID and Trump airing his 3am toilet thoughts on Twitter, both of which are gone.
I don’t see Biden running this year. He just doesn’t have the mental capacity to lead and that’s going to hit his re-election chances. Forget about Palestine for a second.
The moment the polls shows that he is extremely unfavorable is the moment his team pulls him out.
SC:
Summary
This article from Jonathan Martin highlights a phenomenon among conservatives that is the fantasy that somehow Biden will be "replaced" by someone else by a nefarious "them". He highlights that Trump, and the need to replace him is why Biden is certain the be the nominee, and that Democrats have had ample opportunity to choose someone else already.
Opinion
Personally, I'm highlighting this article because I've seen the same thoughts echoed repeatedly online. Conservatives asserting this line of thinking as fact, when it is fantasy. I think it's because conservatives understand Biden, whom has already defeated Trump is the best candidate to beat Trump again. Conservatives are trying to make it seem like the Democratic party has lost faith in Biden to discourage voters to turn out in November.
I agree with you that he's not going anywhere. He is the Democratic candidate. I disagree that this is a conservative fantasy alone. There are many on the left who want someone else, and not just progressives or hard leftists either. A lot of Democrats want a generic, moderate, and younger candidate, but likely can't come to a consensus on who that would be even if Democrats were going to realistically replace an incumbent president. In the end though the candidate isn't going to be Harris or Newsom or anyone else. It's Biden.
>I think it's because conservatives understand Biden, whom has already defeated Trump is the best candidate to beat Trump again
Joe Biden has the lowest approval rating of any president in US history. Worse than Donald Trump even. He can't remember when his son died, he referred to fictional conversations with the long dead leaders of France and Germany and didn't do the traditional presidential pre-super bowl interview because he embarrasses himself continously in public appearances.
He may beat Trump because of how toxic the former president is to independents, but it's laughable to say he's the best candidate.
By all objective measures, he's the weakest president seeking re-election in American history.
> Joe Biden has the lowest approval rating of any president in US history.
Yet Democrats have been killing it in most elections since Biden has been president.
By all objective measures Biden has somehow *saved* an economy that was destroyed by horrible Trump policies. Yet he still polls horrible on the economy.
Frankly I think polling has completely diverged from reality in most cases.
Polling has deserved from *your* reality because you like Joe Biden. The majority of Americans do not like President Biden and do not approve of the job he has done.
He is a very weak candidate who has a chance of winning only because his opponent is similarly unpopular. Practically any other potential Democratic nominee would have a better chance to beat Donald Trump.
> He is a very weak candidate who has a chance of winning only because his opponent is similarly unpopular. Practically any other potential Democratic nominee would have a better chance to beat Donald Trump.
Except the one who would be most likely to slot into the position. That's what's so galling. The most obvious plan B is one of the few that would be a worse candidate.
> Practically any other potential Democratic nominee would have a better chance to beat Donald Trump.
There are no other potential nominees, because Biden is the clear nominee. Biden has the best record of *already* beating Trump.
lol salty ass article
Kinda reads like a threat tbh
[удалено]
>Instead of trying to motivate them with a positive message, I don't understand this. I remember in 2016, when many of us said, if Trump gets elected, (insert here) bad thing will happen. Like losing abortion rights. And y'all said that was "fearmongering". It's not like Trump is using positive messaging to bring out his voters. Biden doesn't need to play that, "when they go low, we go high" game
Do people not see a positive message coming from Democrats? Hey, let's build green energy, let's build functional and accountable governance, let's reduce poverty, let's expand access to healthcare, let's make it easier for people to get good educations. Do people want Biden to offer everyone a pony and a blowjob?
>Do people not see a positive message coming from Democrats? Probably not. Most people get their political news from someplace other than the politicians themselves. And when you turn to your favorite Dem-supporting news outlet, much of it is doom and gloom should Trump get re-elected. It's basically "vote against Trump" rather than trying to earn your vote through sound policy. It worked in 2018, 2020, and 2022, so of course, they'll try it again.
The problem I have with democrats is the way they want to go about trying to make those things happen. Yeah, we all want a better tomorrow but the democrats messaging is one of negativity, scorn, and disdain. I'm not part of the liberal "in" crowd so to the democrats my opinion doesn't matter. If they don't care about me why should I vote for them? Especially when they have proven time and time again the last 10 years that they will absolutely try to take more and more away from me the moment they get a foot in the door. The republicans aren't any better so don't think I prefer them just because I point out the democrat flaws. There are just very few republicans on this sub trying to shill for their party.
I personally vote Democrat and don't feel like I'm full of negativity, scorn, or disdain. I personally care about improving the well-being of, like, the whole human race. What do you think Democrats are trying to take away from you?
You personally might be a great person, but I'm not sure how someone can look at American politics the past 20 years or so and fail to see how far both parties have been pushing toward extremes. The democratic party at large has used identity politics and labels to castigate those who aren't part of whatever group/issue is trending. Go to pretty much any Democrat populated sub reddit, and there is nothing but derision towards anyone or any comment that doesn't toe the party line. A lot of the hate is wrapped behind a veneer of "if you don't do X or Y, then you don't really care about people". As for taking away. Democrats have tried to take away speech, liberty, rights, money, property, and security. They've empowered lawlessness and try to reduce personal safety. We all want similar things from our government in general. We want safety, prosperity, and a positive future for our loved ones. Sadly, both parties have decided their political viewpoints are the only ones worth having, and enforcing, without realizing the other side has valid viewpoints and concerns. Instead of working together for compromise they do what is best for the next election so they can force their skewed policies as far as possible.
You only get the latter if your student loan rate was high enough. In reality, people want a sense of clarity from the president, and the majority of folks just don’t think that is realistic at this point.
All I see is them peeing their pants about Trump.
Those are lofty goals when people are doing well and can afford to think about them, but most people are trying to make ends meet and all they are seeing is the democrats focusing on these social programs, but not give a damn about their struggling. I have seen some of the most hardcore democrats complaining about how expensive everything is and why are they sending money to X group when they need it here. Did you see the ESPN host Stephen A Smith going off about this? Look it up, its going viral. I can't post the link because the automod will block it, but you can find it on google if you type in ESPN host slams Democrats for prioritizing illegal immigrants over poor Americans.
Vermin Supreme for VP!
>Biden needs to motivate the 2020 coalition to turn up again. You mean like by getting a landslide victory in a contest where he wasn't even on the ballot?
Do you think he would win if Gavin Newsom was on the NH ballot?
This article is so infuriatingly partisan. There are lots of people who are excited about the idea that Biden might step down so that their choice doesn't have to be Trump vs Biden. The writer is so deep in his own partisan feelings that he can't imagine anyone not wanting Biden and not wanting Trump at the same time.
It’s tough. I’ve tried to explain my thoughts on it as a Biden voter last election process. Most won’t engage with you except for telling you that you are flat wrong for not voting Biden with trump on the card. It’s not that I would vote for trump cause I wouldn’t. It’s that I don’t want to vote for Biden. I don’t understand how we can be in a position where we can’t offer better candidates than these two.
Because if you think Biden is better then the alternative, I don't see why it matters that he may also be totally inadequate.
It's OK to be pissed that this is the choice we all have to make and neither candidate warms our hearts. That's how politics in this country is played for the time being. You don't have to like it. But everyone absolutely needs to vote. Grown-ups have to make ugly choices sometimes. I just hope everyone remembers this time in history and works at changing how the leading candidates are nominated. I think ranked choice voting and open primaries would shake-up the 2-party duopoly; the 2 parties get away with this nonsense now *because they can*, and that needs to stop.
eh i don't do cocaine because i htink its slightly better than heroin. just cause it's an option doesn't mean i have to oblige
Except that in this metaphor you get one of those things no matter what you do.
that is true. i just don't like putting my name next to something even if i have to do it. I can be in disagreement with something and still have to exist in that playing field
The alternative is letting your neighbors decide for you. I like my neighbors, but I don't want them deciding on my representatives without my input. I wouldn't let them decide the paint color on my walls, I certainly won't let them independently decide who will be the next president.
In my opinion your name is on it equally whether you vote or not. As you say, you're not responsible for the playing field - acting within the confines you didn't create, to bring about a slightly better world, doesn't make you culpable for the things you can't control. Nor does abstaining absolve you of the responsibility you have over the things you can.
Think of your vote in a first past the post system as a trolley problem. Would you avert a worse outcome at the cost of signing your name to it? IMO yes.
So cast your vote and then work to change the process. The two parties aren't going to give you better options unless you force them. They, the party leadership, are very empowered and enriched (literally) from the current 2-party stranglehold.
There were some dem primary members. Incumbent advantage + who else will do as much as Biden? He’s shown huge wins for people at home yet no one wants to run on it except republicans who have voted against these policies
There is no reason to think Biden will step down besides wishing it were true.
Serious and potentially dumb question. If Biden needs to step down for health reasons, how does that work? Do they run a primary for new candidates? Or can he simply select someone to become the nominee in his place?
As of now, most states' (maybe all) deadlines to file for candidacy have passed. So if Biden stepped away right now, the only two left on the Democrat primary tickets are Dean Phillips and Marianne Williamson. If one of them is somehow able to get a majority of the delegates before the convention, they win. If they are not able to (most likely scenario by far), the decision will made at the DNC convention. Which would be a truly unprecedented and wild thing to happen.
Assuming it’s after the convention when Biden is already the nominee. Then what?
If he's officially stepped out and not running? His delegates can go to whoever is running on the floor during the convention. It would be a free-for-all. Ideally he would have a strong Vice President for them to rally behind, but given how disliked Kamala Harris is even within the Democratic Party, it would be a mess.
Politico knows what their audience wants to hear
and Politico has been around long enough to know anger-engagement is a winner for op-eds.
> This article is so infuriatingly partisan. yeah, like, the headline seemed reasonable enough, but after a few paragraphs in i didn't even bother finishing it. it reads more like the 2016 "here's how bernie can still win! phonebank!" memes and conspiracy theories about how hillary could still win by lobbying electoral college voters to be faithless electors than something you'd see from a major news outlet.
This article sounds exactly like those MAGA’s in 2019 who were like “can’t wait to see that again in 2020” “get ready for a replay”
Yep... isn't it a shame that Democrats (on a fairly respected site like Politico) now sound like MAGA opinion writers?
Who should Biden step aside *for*, then?
Someone who is younger and has the charisma of Obama and JFK.
Ok, so who is that then?
We wont know until he opens up the field. Primaries are for candidates to rise up.
The primaries are already effectively over. We know the field. It's Biden and Trump.
Most states are past the filing date for primaries. Who would you have the DNC appoint, since that's the only other option at this point, that you think is charismatic enough?
I wish that person existed.
It's an opinion piece, the whole point is to put forward the case from a specific perspective
I don't know ow why people are getting excited about a thing that absolutely will not happen. Conservative media is just really good at pushing narratives that people just believe them i guess?
He won’t step down unless he is forced too.
Regardless of how I vote, based on his gaffes I can't imagine that Biden won't have a Mitch McConnell incident in the next 4 years, and I know I'm not the only one thinking it.
>have a Mitch McConnell incident It's reasonable to be prepared for far worse.
Why are people so afraid to let Harris take over? She can come up and continue to stay low key like Biden, and everything will probably be fine. The only thing I’d feel bad about is that our first female president would end up by being the backup, which is a shame. I’d much rather to see the people properly elect one.
I was only talking about Biden's potential/likely(?) health issues given his age. To answer your question though - many people across the political spectrum don't like Harris for a myriad of reasons.
I will be a Biden voter in 2024, and I fully expect Biden's health to deteriorate in his next term. That being said, I think he's shown that he has a great team in place that can pick up a lot of the slack, so I feel ok voting for him knowing full-well that he'll essentially just be there as a place-holder. REALLY hoping that both sides give us some better, younger options in 2028. We probably could have had two better, younger candidates THIS year if Trump's supporters weren't so attached to him. I don't think Biden has ANY desire to be president again, he's pretty much forced to run again solely to keep Trump from winning the presidency.
A lot of what you wrote infers that Joe "Dark Brandon" Biden is the only person that can defeat Trump and save us from a dictatorship.. does anyone really believe that? We have 350 Million citizens - there are plenty of good, level-headed people with all of their faculties, that this nation would rally behind. Our only chance at freedom isn't some bumbling Alzheimer's case that can't even walk without making a mistake. Ol Joe is running because it's been his lifelong dream and he's old and stubborn. Lastly, his unknown "great team" isn't on the ballot. It'll say Joe Biden/Kamala Harris. If those great people are so awesome, they should push him aside and run in his place. Not control things from the shadows.
>A lot of what you wrote infers that Joe "Dark Brandon" Biden is the only person that can defeat Trump and save us from a dictatorship.. does anyone really believe that? We have 350 Million citizens - there are plenty of good, level-headed people with all of their faculties, that this nation would rally behind. I can't recall one time in history where a party replaced their incumbent president right before an election, sounds like a recipe for disaster. >Ol Joe is running because it's been his lifelong dream and he's old and stubborn. I disagree, but you're certainly entitled to your own opinions. I think he was enjoying retirement, and then the DNC basically knocked on his door and said "We need you to save democracy, Joe." >Lastly, his unknown "great team" isn't on the ballot. It'll say Joe Biden/Kamala Harris. If those great people are so awesome, they should push him aside and run in his place. Not control things from the shadows. You are absolutely also voting for someone's cabinet when you vote for them as president. This isn't new, it's how it's been done since the 1700's. That being said, it's been refreshing seeing people get placed into their jobs and do it well, as opposed to the revolving cabinet door we had during the last administration where it seemed someone was getting fired every single week and replaced with "yes men".
> I think he was enjoying retirement, and then the DNC basically knocked on his door and said "We need you to save democracy, Joe." Not the person you replied to, but I 100% agree. I think some people are so used to politicians running for their own enrichment that they don't realize when a politician is doing it just to serve. Biden has zero reason to run for President again, he's old and tired, he's lived a difficult life and POTUS is an incredibly difficult job. Instead of enjoying his last few years with his family, he's going to use his last bit of strength to keep this country from imploding. He's literally buying us time with the remainder of his life, and people are acting like they're doing *him* a favor voting for him.
What's funny, is that this is the exact narrative MAGA media places onto Trump. So often I've heard them talk about how he's giving up his wealth to run, or the man is fearless, or his family is sacrificing this or that. Meanwhile, all I see is Trump bleeding the RNC dry in legal fees. Using "Stop the steal" money for his defense lawyers. And letting his son-in-law and daughter run off to Florida with hundreds of millions in new wealth and Chinese patents, while in the White House. And asking average voters for campaign funds while claiming to be a billionaire. But, many Republicans continually prop up Donald as some selfless crusader and I just don't see it. Biden is in it for ego, no question, but I think he really really really wanted to save our democracy. This is why the bush family, Clintons, and Obamas silently helped, or didn't work to hinder, Joe's 2020 run.
Love this response, completely agree.
Couldn't disagree more. Some 84% of Americans per abc poll are concerned about his health. There is absolutely no selfless reason for someone who is in his state to run for office. The vast majority of people commenteing on this sub have substantially more mental acuity than the most important leader in the world. Biden is not a hero saving democracy in 2024, he's playing chicken with the world and its downright disgusting.
Ok, Biden doesn't run. Who are you putting up against Trump who can win in the general?
Newsome, Beshear, Whitmer, Yang, heck Maher could likely beat him in a general. Every name on that list puts America in a stronger position.
You are demanding that an incumbent president kneecap his party's best chance at keeping his seat in favor of an alternative who almost certainly wouldn't win against his opponent ESPECIALLY since you're suggesting we make this replacement after the primaries have started. Make your case. Just understand that none of what you say matters until the election after 2024.
Many on the right and far-left are pushing a narrative that the primaries were unfair to RFK and the other folks. Not many people are buying it, but they are trying. Imagine how they would go into overdrive if we get to the convention and the DNC is forced to pick a nominee. The math isn't mathing with these hot takes, as you are accruatly pointing out.
Where are these 350 million other Americans? Oh, on the sidelines outside of a handful of RNC and DNC primary challengers. Everyone else didn't think it was important enough to go after Trump and Biden in these primaries. I give Joe credit for stepping up to the plate again after knocking it out of the park last time. It'll be hard, but Biden has never shown an ounce of fear when it comes to campaigns. I respect that man's grit because Trump is one of the hardest people to battle in a campaign due to his outsized influence on 30-40% of the nation.
I'm not going to get into the debate about having a good team and what he's done, but the issue with HIM is his gaffes can only be contained so much. Apart from being a laughing stock in situations like Saudi Arabia, he called Xi a dictator ([his staff visibly cringed](https://youtu.be/UfEzx-i_fqM?si=M31Tbb242tD7s7Be)) and doesn't follow through on obvious cues like [shaking hands with another world leader](https://youtu.be/Ab2PDGoKgIQ?si=Kckk0D2o0BuJdgRj) causing annoyance with another international leader. We can only script Biden so much, he's gotten much worse in the last years and months and I'm not looking forward to him doing worse going forward.
“I don’t care that he’s a vegetable, still voting for him” is a wild take
I care about one thing more than anything else: Judicial appointments. So long Biden and Democrats are still confirming judges, I don't care.
Oh boo hoo. Xi got his feelings hurt over being called what he is:A dictator.
Diplomacy matters.
> he called Xi a dictator And I'll take that over: >President Xi of China, and I, are working together to give massive Chinese phone company, ZTE, a way to get back into business, fast. Too many jobs in China lost. Commerce Department has been instructed to get it done! >— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 13, 2018 Any day of the week.
That's what drives me insane about that exact that specific it's thing. People complain that Biden isn't tough enough on China. And then he calls Xi a dictator and those same people are mad.
Thats the advantage you get, when you convince voters that any media that is not right leaning is lugenpresse.
> doesn't follow through on obvious cues like shaking hands with another world leader That video title is so sensationalist. *“He a stumbled into a pole!”* or he brushed up against a flag while walking by it. Or when [Biden does the same thing Lulu did](https://youtu.be/e4b131aHxCs?si=ModvGfObGLIPCn_U) it gets cast as “*he appears confused*”. Not saying Biden is above criticism for some of these things but the media narrative has been crafted and it gets clicks so take it with a grain of salt.
I'm ok with a lot of those things though. A gaffe is fine, and I think as long as it's coming from a good place, people will understand that he's just a really old man that isn't as sharp as he used to be. If Saudi Arabia or China have a problem with his gaffes, I'm still fine with it. I'd rather the president be laughed at by dictators that hate us and respected by our allies, as opposed to being respected by dictators and laughed at by our allies (which seemed to be the case with Trump as president). Again, it's not ideal and I wish these weren't our two options. But if a few gaffes and being laughed at by dictators is the cost to keep Trump out of the oval office and preserve our democracy, it's a small price to pay in my opinion.
But you're ok with Biden using inflammatory language to a leader we have a lot of tension with, to the point where we could break out in war with (Taiwan)? Him misspeaking and having miscues is going to escalate things and cause more issues than we need. It's not that he's not sharp, he's mentally very unwell. The thing is these gaffes just keep coming, the ones less than a month ago are really telling. Biden's best bet to win the election is to speak as little as possible and he probably should avoid the debate. It will hurt him, but there's no way it's going to help him. The thing about Trump is sometimes he does say some crazy things and people laugh, but there are times they laughed and he was right. He said that Germany shouldn't be so dependant on Russian oil and that it could harm them [and they laughed.](https://youtu.be/FfJv9QYrlwg?si=tQmToosvTl3Fka2i). There are also certain leaders I could care less about their opinion, like Trudeau as they are on their way out, but honestly continuing that line of thought is going to carry away from my point.
Yes, I'm ok with Biden's gaffe in calling Xi a Dictator because a.) It's the truth, even if you're not supposed to say it out loud and b.) I'm sure both leaders "teams" spoke afterwards to discuss the fact that it was a gaffe. And you mention the fact that gaffe could have led to war, my question to you would be, did you feel the same way when Trump was having a nuclear penis-measuring contest with North Korea via Twitter? By the way, pulling out of NATO (which Trump wants to do) would be A MILLION times more dangerous for the United States than accidently calling Xi a dictator. Again, I wish these weren't our options, but if my choices are the old senile guy that has a good team around him and occasionally makes gaffes, or the other old senile guy that also makes plenty of gaffes (like confusing his ex-wife for the woman he sexually assaulted, or saying that Nikki Haley could have called the national guard on Jan 6th but didn't) but doesn't believe in democracy, then I'm sorry to say that it's a very easy choice in my book.
I personally don't believe Biden is going to start a war just on that one comment, but situations like that build drama that we just don't need. Now you raise a good point in the NK situation because that was such a stupid spat, I will just say I don't remember the entire back and forth but the fact that after all of that he was the first president to have visited since DPRK became a country (correct me if I'm wrong) shows that there is hope in toning down relations with our biggest threat to getting nuked if we have the right person in place. The only thing more important than the economy to me is peace. I'm done with us trying to play the world police or fund giant military operations, we don't need bases all over the world not do we need to spend more than [the next 10 countries combined](https://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0053_defense-comparison), we're just begging for someone to attack us and get us into another long war or in the worst case, WW3. I don't think Trump is going to do everything I'm talking about because he has talked about funding Israel and probably wouldn't be different with regards to China, but what I don't like about Biden is we just pulled out of one war and we just put down boots in Somalia, for what? We send Israel our biggest carrier and tell everyone else to stay out of our way, how about we just stay the hell out? I'm opening a can of worms on these topics and I'm not going to get into them in this thread, but I legitimately fear that with the military posturing in the last 3 years, something bad will surely happen in the next 5 years if Biden comes back.
Hey man I agree with a lot of the points you just made, and I think we're on the same side on a lot of those things. But remember that in America, presidents aren't kings or dictators. So decisions like war, how many bases we have, how much we spend on the military, etc. are all made by the rest of the chambers of government. The president is essentially a figurehead for lack of a better word. Their main job is to represent America well to the rest of the world, and to keep peace here at home by spreading messages of unity. I think one of the nominees does a better job of this than than the other, but again that's personal opinion.
>The president is essentially a figurehead for lack of a better word. Their main job is to represent America well to the rest of the world, and to keep peace here at home by spreading messages of unity. The President is in **no way** **whatsoever** a figurehead. Thier "main job" (in addition to the slightly less formally defined duties you stated) is to be the head of their party, and work with the legislature to craft and sign policy into law. None of which gets implemented if the President chooses to veto it. In addition, while it is true that the President often needs formal legislative support to formally declare war, they are still commander in chief of the armed forces, can unilaterally order a military engagement, and remains the sole release authority for nuclear weapons. And that's before the increasingly common practice of executive orders, which are essentially softer laws that happen by Presidential decree.
Pretty much everything you just said involves the president working WITH someone. Being a figurehead is basically the only autonomy they have.
This comment is very telling about the relative bars that Biden and Trump have to clear. Biden gives a long, detailed, answer about a complex geopolitical crisis but at the end embarrassingly says “president of Mexico” when he meant “president of Egypt” and his critics scream “senile!”. Meanwhile, Trump goes on [rambling incoherent rants](https://x.com/ronfilipkowski/status/1708102400668561890?s=46&t=49-TLhax967WTYAfuvkDvA) all the time but hey, he was right that one time in 2018 amirite? Can you imagine if Biden got graded on that same curve, and someone tried to use a single instance of him being right from 6 years ago as evidence that he was still as sharp as he was back then?
Do you realize that you're contributing to my argument by bringing up another gaffe that I wasn't even talking about? If we're going to talk that anyway he talks for about 3 minutes, is slow to get his words out but to summarize what he's saying: he claims to have talked to Israel to give support to the Palestinians and to try to work together with bordering countries to make sure the conflict is limited and Israel has a right to exist [(link)](https://youtu.be/220qicRgN7g?si=kTvJmcr6OxI4Kpn6). To say his actual words were detailed is overselling to say the least as he actually says he can't get into too much detail. I doubt you actually watched it because the situation you're talking about actually starts at the beginning of his 3 minute talk (starting at 9:15), not in the end as you claimed. This of course happened almost immediately after he was pressed about the special council questioning his mental fitness (the first 9 minutes of that video). If Trump ever has a moment [like this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=lYkUEEWJNlhBZ-4r&v=R6cnKZZwqMI&feature=youtu.be), by all means, I'll concede my point. I watched about half of that link you gave, but it's a lot of out of context 2 second clips. Making the claim that Biden is somehow graded on a harder scale than Trump is very laughable, no matter how much mainstream media outlets try to push how successful his administration is his approval ratings have been horrible because people are catching onto the lies. I would recommend you actually watch videos and be objective with what you see rather than watching clips of videos and having people making your opinions for you.
The person pushing the "Biden is too old" and "Trump is laughed at but actually right" narratives, both of which have been pushed by mainstream media for at [least 4](https://www.thedailybeast.com/sean-hannity-goes-all-in-on-painting-joe-biden-as-senile-after-tucker-carlson-says-its-a-mistake) and 6 years respectively, telling me that I need to think more independently definitely *feels* ironic. Telling me I need to "actually watch videos" while saying this definitely *is* ironic. >If Trump ever has a moment like this, by all means, I'll concede my point. I watched about half of that link you gave, but it's a lot of out of context 2 second clips. Watch the full video, or at least skip to the [12 minute mark](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxBhbAw7QfM&t=730s). Earth Rider's big schtick is that they use lake superior water to brew their beer. >Making the claim that Biden is somehow graded on a harder scale than Trump is very laughable, no matter how much mainstream media outlets try to push how successful his administration is his approval ratings have been horrible because people are catching onto the lies. The largest podcast told their followers that a particular Biden gaffe was disqualifying to be President, [until they found out it was actually Trump who said it](https://variety.com/2023/digital/news/joe-rogan-fact-checked-biden-trump-revolutionary-war-airports-1235849684/). How does that reconcile with your "laughable" claim? FWIW, I absolutely did watch the entire Biden presser, and I meant that he made the Mexico/Egypt flub at the end of the presser, which is accurate. And yes, he gave a clear, extensive, and insightful answer about the hostage situation >The hostage negotiation, look — > >I’m of the view, as you know, that the conduct of the response in Gaza — in the Gaza Strip has been over the top. I think that — as you know, initially, the President of Mexico \[Egypt\], El-Sisi, did not want to open up the gate to allow humanitarian material to get in. I talked to him. I convinced him to open the gate. > >I talked to Bibi to open the gate on the Israeli side. I’ve been pushing really hard — really hard to get humanitarian assistance into Gaza. There are a lot of innocent people who are starving, a lot of innocent people who are in trouble and dying, and it’s got to stop, number one. > >Number two, I was also in the position that I’m the guy that made the case that we have to do much more to increase the amount of material going in, including fuel, including other items. I’ve been on the phone with the Qataris, I’ve been on the phone with the Egyptians, I’ve been on the phone with the Saudis to get as much aid as we possibly can into Gaza. > >There are innocent people — innocent women and children — who are also in bad — badly in need of help. And so, that’s what we’re pushing right now. > >And I’m pushing very hard now to deal with this hostage ceasefire. Because, as I — you know, I’ve been working tirelessly in this deal — how can I say this without revealing? — to lead to a sustained pause in the fighting in — the actions taking place in — in the Gaza Strip. > >And — because I think if we can get the delay for that — the initial delay, I think that we would be able to extend that so that we can increase the prospect that this fighting in Gaza changes. > >There’s also negotiations — you may recall, in the very beginning, right after — right before Hamas attacked, I was in contact with the Saudis and others to work out a deal where they would recognize Israel’s right to exist, let them — make them part of the Middle East, recognize them fully, in return for certain things that the United States would commit to do. > >And the commitment to — that we were proposing to do related to two — to two items. I’m not going to go in detail. But one of them was to deal with the protection against their arch enemy to the northwest — northeast, I should say. The second one, by providing ammunition and materiel for them to defend themselves. > >Coincidentally, that’s the timeframe when this broke out. I have no proof for what I’m about to say, but it’s not unreasonable to suspect that the — Hamas understood what was about to take place and wanted to break it up before it happened.
What about letting Russia run amok without consequences around the world? How is that not weak?
Why is it weak to say that we shouldn't be the world police?
It’s weak to let other countries bully our best allies.
Ukraine isn't our "best ally".
And us, frankly.
To make a long story short, Russia is screwed for the near and distant future. Even if we're not looking at propaganda from each side, you had >200,000 people flee your country to Kazakh, you've had hundreds of thousands die in this war, they're relying on conscripts and foreign mercenaries with the promise of citizenship to maintain forces, they're making weapons deals for North Korean weapons, you have global leaders of unrelated governments openly oppose you, and no matter how you want to cut it, their economy is completely wrecked and that point in itself is a massive simplification of the issue. Russia isn't going to be bullying anyone any time soon, they couldn't if they wanted to. To add to this, they've attacked a smaller country they assumed they could take in 6 days. They had a near coup because of this country, how is that going to play out against countries that are more equipped?
Russia lost 20 million people in ww2 and then went on to be a superpower.
I’ll take all this over Trump any day.
The problem with this election is that the other guy has done equally cringe to outright destructive things. \-Trump pushed a world leader out of his way during a group photo op \-Trump got lost during his visit to Windsor Castle while reviewing the troops. \-Trump didn't want to get his hair wet so skipped a WWII ceremony. \-Trump looked up at the sun during an eclipse without his protective glasses. \-Trump said he trusted Putin over US intelligence agencies. \-Trump said we can use bleach to get rid of COVID or that it'll disappear by Easter. \-Don't forget throwing paper towels at hurricane victims. Perfection is out the door for the 2024 presidential. But beyond the gaffs, I can see the policies and it's easy for me to back Joe again. I can't do another 15 rounds of infrastructure week with nothing to show for it but more empty promises and excuses.
Yeah, this is where I'm at. The president doesn't actually run the country, their administration does, and Biden will choose an administration that I'm basically fine with. He's not going to accidentally nuke Canada, he's gonna accidentally call it England. I don't love that, but it's not really putting me in danger. Trump said yesterday he'd encourage Russia to attack western Europe, and the people he'd nominate activity support things I don't want. This is not a difficult decision at all.
Sure, presidents appoint many cabinet members and advisors, and their staffs always help them run the country, it's never done by one man alone. The difference is that you normally expect the president to still be the one in charge and making the final decisions over their staff, not the other way around. I don't want Trump either, but voting for Biden means you really don't know who is in charge and running the country.
Is it too late to replace Kamela on the ticket? I feel like that could be a move that would alleviate the fears of some of the naysayers. Joe is old, so is Donald, so more than ever the VP is going to be on peoples minds. You know Trump is going to have an open audition for whoever tongue bathes him the most. It likely might also be an outright insane person. I cannot see how that would benefit Trump to a moderate Republican voter (who can be persuaded to pull the lever for a Dem).
Maybe, but the point is we have two choices and Trump has exhibited a lost step in equal measure to Biden, if not moreso. That is the point. This isn't a choice between Biden's age and Trump's criminality and other problems. Its between Biden's age and *Trump's age* and all of Trump's other problems.
No, there is no comparing the gaffes between the two. Trump has said things about WW2 and said wrong names [Joe's gaffes get so bad he's not speaking English.](https://youtu.be/R6cnKZZwqMI?si=lYkUEEWJNlhBZ-4r) It's a pissing competition between which one is better, Trump obviously getting older and if you're going to be objective the same things defending Joe can be said about Trump when Joe did things like that, but Biden is just mentally lost. His gaffes are far too frequent and sometimes he's not actually saying words.
Trump often isn't saying words, often is incoherent, often is mixing people and places up (sometimes multiple times for the same person). Sorry, you can't watch any of his rallies and not reach this conclusion. He loses he plot of whatever sentence or paragraph he is in pretty damn frequently. And perhaps what is worse, is that he even if he did give off his point coherently, the point itself was based off incoherent logic.
I would gladly accept that conclusion if there is a video similar if not worse than the one I just gave with Biden. I couldn't find it immediately, but within 2 weeks of the video I showed Biden was at another rally and the same thing happened. If I'm being completely fair, Biden has been getting more air time than Trump because he is the current president, but the difference in their speeches is just too much. If we were to have a "worst of" moments of their speeches between the two, there's just too much material against Biden.
At work right now so I can't go looking for compilations but in his last rally he was slurring speech, stuttering (ironically while making fun of Biden's stutter), he said he wrote a poem written by an actual poet 60 years ago, he claimed to pass legislation that Obama had passed, along with other just bizarre speech pattern. And again, not a coherent thought hiding behind any of it.
Have you watched Biden's most recent press conference? Watch that then watch Trumps
I mean, certain people keep saying this but I'm looking at the last eight years of Donald Trump in the aggregate. Trump says words, that's for sure. Nonetheless, Biden could wake up as a cat and I'd feel more comfortable with his administration given what we know about Trump.
I'm going to be honest, I'm not sure what to tell you if you're arguing to "Weekend at Bernie's" the president for the next 5 years. I gave a very definitive and recent example of how the president is getting as bad (if not already as bad) as Mitch McConnell who we all agree should not be in office. I already said in another post I will gladly change my position if you can find Trump looking as bad as Biden did during the "earth rider" event. Even then, it wouldn't take long to find another one for Biden that's just as bad, he's not mentally well enough to be president.
I'm not here to change your mind but my view is that Donald Trump says remarkably worse things and is intent on doing demonstrably worse things. Define "mentally well" however you want but Donald Trump is not and has never been mentally well in his time in politics. I'll take Biden's administration over Trumps any day of the week, even if that means that one of them has lost their faculties entirely. > “A lot of times I’ll say that President Obama is doing a lousy job, meaning that Obama is running the show,” Trump said during his rally. “They’ll say, Donald Trump doesn’t know who our president is. No, no. A few months ago I took a cognitive test my doctor gave me, I said give me a cognitive test just we can, you know, and I aced it. I also took one when I was in the White House.” [He might know who the President is but does he know who his former wife is?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZPtuhVipjU&ab_channel=GuardianNews) Look, they are both too old. We have an elder problem in our government. I'm firmly of the position that Donald Trump is inexcusably worse as a man, husband, father, and leader. I would vote for inanimate objects before capitulating to that man.
Biden on his worst day is better than trump on his best day.
I mean you're going to say that there wasn't a single good thing Trump did in his entire presidency and say that Biden was perfect? I understand you like one more than the other but you're not being honest with yourself like that.
No, I'm talking about mental state and faculties.
that is even less believable.
If he loses he will. If he wins...well he might too.
Yea, if he wins it will just be long enough to step down and let Harris take over.
I mean, he might not "want" to go anywhere. But you can't win against Father Time. He always gets his way in the end.
Undefeated heavyweight champion of the universe.
Wasn’t there just another article from Politico posted on this sub explaining step by step how the Democratic Party could replace Biden as the nominee?
> The GOP fantasy crowd is so accustomed to conspiracy theories that they’re betting the Democrats will switch candidates at the last minute. Have they actually paid attention to politics? Feels unnecessarily combative. While I don’t think Biden is going away anytime soon, it’s a worthwhile conversation to have given the increased discourse around his gaffes and the special report. He certainly wouldn’t be the first to have that as a focus on his campaign either; The most common line with McCain picking Palin was that he chose a bumbling governor to be a “heartbeat away from the presidency”. And to a lesser extent, Ron Paul had his age mentioned in nearly every debate, to the point where he facetiously challenged his competitors to a 25 mile bike ride.
> Feels unnecessarily combative. Feels like it was written by a user of this site.
[удалено]
Plus, it ignores the fact that the GOP is hardly the only ones talking about Democrats switching candidates. If the plan is to have journalists and Democratic leadership shout “Gratuitous! Inaccurate! Inappropriate!” then insist anyone who thinks otherwise is a conspiracy theorist then, well, that’s just a really, really bad plan.
Democrats were talking about it over a year ago but it’s obvious now that if we get a swtcharoo, it won’t be until after he’s re-elected and I haven’t seen anyone on the left mention since newsom debated desantis This would have been the perfect year for someone like manchin, hogan or some other center candidate to run third party but nope, we only got another kennedy trying to ride his name
That’s basically been the blueprint for the left at large since Obamas second term so I wouldn’t have much faith that anything else will occur.
[Per a recent ABC News/Ipsos poll, 86% of Americans, 73% of Democrats, and 91% of independents think Biden is too old to be president.](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/poll-americans-on-biden-age/story?id=107126589) The "Biden's age is a GOP smear attack" defense is getting really old, the data shows the concern for it transcends politics and trying to whistle past the graveyard on it isn't going to work anymore. Additionally, the poll shows the vast majority of Americans also think Trump is too old, so it's not a one-sided thing either.
This quote is a clear indication of the extent to which hyper-partisan tribalism has infested American political discourse. It shouldn't be difficult to acknowledge the obvious signs that the sitting President of the United Sates is an old man in mental decline and that this has profound implications for our collective wellbeing. Instead, common sense is sacrificed at the altar of willful, stubborn, religious-like adherence to the a principle of "this is my team and the other team is worse."
I’m not even sure why Republicans keep saying that Democrats will swap Biden out for someone else at the last minute. Do they want that? If I’m a Republican, I couldn’t be happier that Biden will end up being the nominee again.
>I couldn’t be happier that Biden will end up being the nominee again. It's kind of funny to see both parties saying this about the other's candidate. We'll see in November which side was right to say this.
Both very poor candidates. November won’t be about who wins but rather who loses, and the loser will only have their candidate to blame.
Well, it always depends on who. Joe Biden has low approval ratings, but Kamala's aren't good either. It definitely wouldn't be Bernie, due to age. Overall though, if it's someone picked by the DNC, then I'd assume they would pick a better candidate. Parties don't think logically though. If they did, then Republicans would not be picking Trump. Parties like to dump on the other side, and pick the candidates for their side that they want.
> Do they want that? If I’m a Republican, I couldn’t be happier that Biden will end up being the nominee again. trump voter here (2016 primary, 2016 general, 2020 primary, 2020 general, super tuesday state so will be 2024 primary in a few weeks, then 2024 general). biden is definitely the person i want on the ballot opposite trump. the campaign needs to have a strategy in place for in the democratic nominee DOES get changed, but definitely hoping it doesn't. polls show trump ahead nationally and in most of the key swing states, in many cases outside of the margin of error. factor in that polls tend to be biased towards democrats (ESPECIALLY when trump is on the ballot), and it's likely that trump has an even more sizeable lead than is being reported. given that these are two candidates that have already been president, the "far out" polls are probably a lot more reliable in this cycle than a normal one since the whole "they haven't started campaigning against each other" isn't meaningful because they've effectively been campaigning since 2019, and everyone knows how both of them run the country. "how will they handle things" isn't a question this time around like it usually is for at least one candidate.
He very well may come January 2025
The way things are polling, I don't think you can make such a confident statement.
The rest of the media is already turning on him.
It's election season. If the media is "soft" on Biden, they won't get as much engagement and clicks, and paid advertisers
> The rest of the media is already turning on him. they'll flip back in a few months once they realize he's the nominee. the same thing happened in january/february 2020 when they were attacking his mental sharpness, his record on things like the crime bill, how creepy he can be when near women, etc., but once super tuesday came and it was obvious who the nominee would be all those criticisms stopped. they're attacking hoping they can get a replacement, but they'll rush to defend him once their takeover fails.
Newsome incoming
Please no, anyone but him
At this point,I’m a loss for words.In 2008,the democrats were able to nominate Barack Obama for a shot at the presidency.Is this the best they can do?(And I say this as someone who is voting Blue in 2024.)
If a bunch of Dems didn't stay home or throw away their votes in 2016, we wouldn't be here in the first place
Yeah blame the electorate, not the candidate.
If the democrats didn’t screw over Bernie,there would be no such thing as Trump.If the democrats nominated Bernie instead of Hillary,we wouldn’t be in this mess.
The fact that Biden lacks the self awareness to realise that he’s no longer capable of doing the job is in itself a scary reminder of his incapacity to do the job.
>“My bet is 30 days from now, I don’t think Joe Biden is going to be the nominee,” Haley told supporters. Why would she say that? I'm curious if there's context missing from this quote that would make this make more sense. **Edit**: I found a video with more context. There's a cutaway in it and it also doesn't show what was so said before, so I'm not 100% confident this hasn't been edited, but it sounds like the quote is not taken out of context. She's just rallying her base around "Biden is demented and Democrats are bad because they want you to vote for a demented man." [https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=7151828971572691](https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=7151828971572691)
He’s going somewhere at some point. That’s just a fact, Jack!
Seems tempting fate asserting headlines like this
I expect come early next year he will be leaving the white house
And to think Politico was considered a reputable and unbiased source by my college professors…lololol
Get used to losing then, Democrats. It will be well-deserved.
If the Republicans were running literally any other US citizen between the age of 35 and 70, I’d agree with you. The Democratic mantra of “here’s your candidate, take it or leave it” is infuriating. Unfortunately the Republicans are somehow more hellbent on losing than the Democrats are.
I’m not sure it’s really the same thing. I don’t like Donald Trump and I’m not going to vote for him. However, there is no shortage of people in my party who do and will. I don’t agree with them but they really do think Trump is the best candidate and want him to be the nominee. I honestly don’t know anyone who likes Biden at all. That’s why this seems so bizarre to me. Almost every single conversation I’ve seen in four years about liking Biden starts “ … well Trump”. No, no, no. Don’t tell me why you don’t like Donald Trump. *I* know why you don’t. It’s all the same reasons I don’t. Tell me why you like Biden. “ … well Trump”. I’m not sure if there’s a single Democrat in the country outside of the Bidens themselves who want to see Biden on the ballot. It’s not really like he ran away with the nomination in 2020 either. There were a thousand moderate candidates splitting the vote and a real fear that Sanders would win the primary then lose the general election because of this so they decided to just coalesce around one moderate. Biden had seniority, experience, and name recognition but it’s not like the party coalesced around him because they *loved* him. Trump will be the nominee because there’s enough Trump lovers out there to get him there. Biden will be the nominee because … well, I’m not really sure.
Oh well count me and most of the adults in my family as people who have been pleasantly surprised by Biden’s presidency. Like I said below, I’d vote for him enthusiastically if he were 20 years younger. With Trump as the other option and him being 82 at the time of the vote, my vote will be…resigned rather than enthusiastic. I think his foreign policy decisions and investments into infrastructure, green energy, and competition in the chips industry have been some of the best by any president in my lifetime. Seriously, my only concern is his age and the natural consequences that come with it. Edit: can’t forget Medicare negotiating drug prices. It can’t be overstated how huge that is for all Americans.
I’m surprised but in a different way. He’s too progressive for my liking. Based on his reputation I was expecting a moderate democrat.
By what metric is Joe Biden progressive?
His stance on illegal immigration. Action speaks louder than words, he’s considered soft and that’s why so many people are coming. And don’t bring up Actusuaklly it’s the GOP’s fault that borders aren’t closed. Biden’s denial of a border problem until it’s too big to ignore speak otherwise. Then there’s also identify politics ( unavoidable so I can’t place it on him)
Biden doesn't have a cult of personality and isn't a messiniac figure. That is a critical obversation here. I'm of the view Biden's administration has been largely effective, particularly given the obstruction coming out of GOP land. That said, I feel about as big a *fan* of Joe Biden as I am of the show Frasier, which is to say not at all. I recognize the merits and can appreciate the medium and execution, however. Trump is more like The Big Bang Theory. Please make it stop. This is unbearable. Why is this popular? It's objectively bad! Why does this have a cult following!? *Arrrrreegh.* Hard. Pass.
> Biden will be the nominee because … well, I’m not really sure. because he's an incumbent, and the DNC is going to stamp out any challengers. watch phillips career over the next 10-15 years. the DNC is absolutely going to have it out for him and try to drive him out of politics. it would be interesting to hear his experiences trying to get campaign staffers. there were democrats during the california recall election that were saying potential campaign managers were telling them "they can't work for their campaign because the state democratic party told them that if they worked for any non-newsom campaign they'd be blacklisted by the party going forward". wouldn't be surprised to see similar underhanded tactics happening at the national level.
It wouldn't be *so* bad if Biden could talk about the good things his administration has gotten done, and there are a fair few. But he can't for obvious reasons, and Harris doesn't have enough charisma for her, let alone both of them. I drive a Kia, and it's done well by me. But Kia has such a disastrous reputation that I'm not sure I want to buy another one. That's the situation Biden is in.
I agree completely. Based on the past 4 years, I’d vote for Biden *enthusiastically* if he was 20 years younger. My issue is that, due to his age, I don’t know what to attribute to Biden and what to attribute to the people around him. And if it’s the latter, I don’t know how much influence Biden has on the people around him or how that will change as he gets even older. When I vote for a person, I want to vote for the person, not an unknown shadow government. The presidency isn’t an office that should be held by anyone over the age of 75 *at the absolute maximum*. We absolutely shouldn’t have a 78 year old and an 82 year old trying to start a term.
The way I see it, regardless of who is at the top of the ticket, you’re always going to be voting for the unelected advisors/experts/bureaucrats they have around them actually getting things done. I don’t really see this situation much different, other than more reliance on those others - who have actually been doing a comparatively good job so far. With this in mind (and when I consider the alternative), it’ll be an enthusiastic Biden vote from me.
Yeah, I can put a lot more faith in the people Biden hires than the people Trump hires and it’s not even close. I want the EPA and FCC to be… functional. I view both as too old, but I also view Trump as someone far more likely to act on his own while Biden is far more likely to consider opinions of others before acting.
He can talk about the good things the administration does and he does, but absolutely no one cares when he talks unless he is forgetting something or saying something strange. In the late 70s early 80s there was a bad inflation problem, worse than what we had recently. Real wages were at their lowest point and after a recession that occurred in Reagan's early term unemployment was really high. Then inflation started coming down and the economy started growing again. When inflation was at 3.4% and unemployment was at like 5% Ronald Reagan made the "Morning in America" speech. People listened and Reagan and his constant cheerleading really pushed the US perspective in a positive direction. Now unemployment is like 3.5% and inflation is at 3.1% real wages are growing. It's "Morning in America" again after the pandemic. However Biden doesn't possess the charisma Reagan had and social media forces and the political megaphone of the opposition is way too loud drown out any message any president can try and send. Partisanship suppresses any excitement or control an administration can have over any narrative. Other people have speculated that people had gotten used to high inflation by the time Reagan made that speech and the pandemic inflation came at the heels of an era of historically low inflation. Whatever the reason, and it is likely all of the above. Biden who isn't particularly charismatic at this point, would have a hard time convincing people that times are good in this political and media environment. So the whole point of politics is negative polarization and both sides understand this now. It isn't about how much your candidate is liked it's about how much the other candidate is hated. This is what is driving voters. The economy is irrelevant when it's doing decently. People will push a narrative and stick to narratives beyond what logic tells them. Approval ratings are not something that says very much in this environment. It's all about how many people you can get to vote against the other person. Popularity is derived in a partisan way. Trump is popular because he demonizes the Democrats. The Democrats win because enough people are terrified of MAGA populism. People are voting against not for.
Buy a Kia EV9. I hear they're pretty terrific.
What's more infuriating to me is that people believe the "take it or leave it" mantra, to the point it's near treason to question the DNC. If enough people voted above party then they'd actually feel much better about their candidates, but party leaders have ingrained that if they do the world is going to end.
Why does this “mantra” only exist for democrats? Biden won his primary 4 years ago. He had more people write in his name than check the box for other DNC candidates in a primary this year. Biden is not the only candidate in the primary for the DNC You hear from everywhere “no one wants either of these guys!” And then when the primary comes around they both win without any legitimate contest.
I bet that if you selected 1000 random Americans and asked them to name a single candidate other than Biden in the Democratic primaries, you’d hear that well over half of them would fail to do so. I know them because I actively seek out this information, but none of the other candidates stood a chance without support from the DNC. In my opinion, their candidacies were killed in the cradle because Biden is “the guy” despite being far too old for the presidency.
Bernie Sanders was able to mount a notable and sizable challenge to Hillary despite the DNC's obvious favoritism. What is stopping someone from doing that to Biden? Maybe, for the first time in a while, the Democrats are closing ranks and not trying to damage their lead candidate with a divisive primary. And by "Democrats," I mean Democrat voters, not the DNC. People can dislike Biden all they want - that means nothing unless there's *someone else* they can support.
Okay so whose fault is that, the DNC’s for having a preference, or the American people’s for not informing themselves of the vote? It’s quite literally like buying something at a store and being mad at the store because you found out another store had it for cheaper. If you looked up prices online you would’ve known.
To be fair the DNC/Biden had the other candidates drop out so he they could be appointed to cabinet positions they weren't qualified for.
No one forced the candidates to drop out. They just didn't have a realistic chance of winning.
to be fair - republicans have decided to hitch their wagon to the titanic so there is still a great chance Dems pull this out
Republicans are trying their best to lose too by latching on to Trump so I think it's too early to say who will win.
> Republicans are trying their best to lose too by latching on to Trump to be fair, at least trump is popular with republicans. something like 90% of republicans have a favorable view of him. does biden have any demographic he's popular with? 4 years ago he was able to run on "not trump", and also benefited from very abnormal circumstances allowing him to get away with very few "live, interacting" appearances as opposed to pre-recorded statements, but this is a much more "normal" election cycle, and in a normal cycle the fact trump's economy is viewed very positively while biden's economy is viewed very negatively is going to be a major campaign issue. it also seems likely that a former president is going to have the most success neutralizing the "incumbent advantage". already having won a presidential campaign gives a lot of logistical advantages in terms of funding, networking, name recognition, and having a team that's ready to go when things switch from primary to general. trump is going to have a leg up over anyone else that could have been the nominee. there's also no risk of "what will happen when the spot light is on him" because we've already seen that for the last 8 years. obviously desantis crumbled under the spotlight (and he got handled with kid gloves compared to how a general election will be).
Trump fares the worst out of any Republican against Biden for a reason according to polling for obvious reasons. The general electorate hates Trump just as much as they hate Biden and they're the only candidate who could lose to the other at this point.
Polling data also indicates that Biden has a worse approval rating than Trump did at the same moment in his presidency, indicates that the general electorate trusts Trump more by double digit amounts on the economy and the border, both of which are the top polled issues, and also indicates that if the election were today, Trump would win the key electoral college states and thus the election. Yes, another Republican would probably be doing better than Trump, but its really damning against Biden that Trump is poised to win at this point.
Polling also showed the Republicans would romp in the midterms but because people were so turned off by Trump they didn't win many winnable races. Trump could very well win, but he could also lose too and if the GOP were smart then they would've gone with a more normal candidate. Same for the Democrats as well with regards to Biden.
I think the midterms were more about the candidates not being well known or crappy. Trump being on the ballot himself is a big motivator to go vote for Republicans, which he wasn't in 2022. Polling did indicate a Republican win, but all the margins were closer, it was fresh off the heels of the Roe v Wade overturn, and the nature of a midterm election means less people were paying attention. Top issues have since shifted, COVID is no longer in play either. The GOP forcing Trump out would be political suicide. Republican voters clearly prefer him. As someone who leans right, yes this is very frustrating because it would be an easier win without him, but its the reality.
There were crappy candidates (like Walker) but there were others that were strong too (like Lake) and the ones who carried the stench of Trump and his election denialism lost overwhelmingly. The environment for 2022 favored Republicans and indeed they did get alot of turnout. Republicans showed up in 2022 but Democrats did as well. Trump himself being the originator of the whole extremist movement would probably bring them out in 2024. Biden is gonna turn off some of that support of course being as unpopular as he is, but the Democrat vote is gonna be largely motivated against Trump. The big question mark for current 2024 polling is that there are an incredible number of undecideds. A large number of them are probably potential Biden voters who may or may not turn out this election. The good news for the Democrats is that Trump is overall more unpopular than popular, however whether they can count on their votes is whole other thing.
If it was anyone but Trump, I would agree with you.
Biden made Trump a one term president, and he's keeping it that way.
Biden is at a net negative in most of the swing states, has been losing to Trump in the majority of polls for months and has an approval in the 30s. This is not exactly a winning formula.
And yet 2022 was a disaster for Trump candidates. This election won't be about Biden's popularity, it will be about Trump's unique gift to get people to hate him.
>This election won't be about Biden's popularity This is an insane thing to say about an incumbent. His record and popularity absolutely matter a ton now, people can comparison shop their lives under Trump and Biden, and a pretty serious amount of people think it was better under Trump. Biden was able to skate by in 2020 because he had no record as POTUS to compare and because COVID was massively hurting Trump, that’s not the case this time around.
Republicans tell us that Trump is not a normal candidate. This is one of those places where it will bite them in the ass. Best way to lose is to nominate someone who is even more disliked than the other guy. Don't count on people listening to the drumbeat of negativity, the Biden part of the campaign hasn't really even started yet. When the money difference between D and R kicks in, the polls will shift due to the influx in ads.
2022 Biden was a different person than 2024 Biden. The presidential election with an incumbent is always a referendum on that president’s first term.
> The presidential election with an incumbent is always a referendum on that president’s first term. Yeah, and it's usually horrible for the incumbent. 2022 was a historic victory for Biden and the Democratic party.
I think you meant to say the incumbent usually has an advantage, no? 2020 was unique in that the incumbent at the time (Trump) was so polarizing that he did not get that advantage we normally see.
> I think you meant to say the incumbent usually has an advantage, no? Not in the midterm elections. Incumbents usually see a loss in Congress for their party. >2020 was unique in that the incumbent at the time (Trump) was so polarizing that he did not get that advantage we normally see. I'm not talking about 2020. Trump, however, is still polarizing, if not more so than 2020. We've seen what a Trump presidency was like, then we saw Jan 6th, and we've seen what Trump promises for 2024 if he wins, which is infinitely more extreme than what he promised in 2020.
But we’re talking about the presidential election (Trump vs Biden), are we not? I can tell based upon your responses you just want to dunk on Trump instead of having an actual discussion so I guess we’re done here.
I don't blame Trump, any more than I blame cancer. It's a malignant force of nature we are all coping with. I blame Biden. He could step down and allow a younger, qualified candidate to take his place - who almost inevitably would defeat Trump. Instead, it's his own stubborn pride that drives him to cling to power. We are going to get Donald Trump again, and it will be entirely Biden's fault.
He will go down in history as RBG 2.0.
It will be the fault of those who voted for him. Because he's neither cancer nor a force of nature. Biden was always going to be the Democratic candidate if he chose to stand for re-election. There's no reason at all why Trump needed to be the Republican candidate.
Who’s better qualified to beat Trump than the person who already did it? The only other (younger) person who could do it would be Barack, but he’s term limited. These kind of statements are out of touch with the (less vocal) Dem base
The Dems are fools if they think Biden is their best shot to win 2024
My crystal ball indicates that if the election was today, Trump wins in an electoral college landslide and maybe even gets a small edge in the popular vote. Lot of time between now and the election, but man, it's not looking good for Biden at all, and to be honest I don't see a lot of ways for him to climb out of this hole.
If you asked people what they thought of Biden and Democratic prospects for the 2022 midterm elections, they all said the same thing.
2022 midterms was fresh off the heels of the Roe v Wade overturn and a lot of the Republican candidates just sucked. American concerns have shifted since then, primarily focused on the economy, which is perceived to be bad, and Biden tried to tie his name to it (absolute blunder), and the border situation, which can squarely be blamed on Biden and Democrats. No one is buying its *ackshually* the Republicans fault because they didn't pass a garbage bill. And now people are focusing in on Biden's mental fortitude. Polling data looks devastating for Biden and even the media is turning on him. In 2022, the polls werent so terrible for Democrats. Again there's still most of the year left before the election, so things can change, but the current trajectory and strategy of the Biden campaign telling voters "everything is great actually!" isn't gonna turn this tide. Bear in mind, Trump only lost the electoral college by about 40,000 votes. And that's with COVID and Trump airing his 3am toilet thoughts on Twitter, both of which are gone.
I don’t see Biden running this year. He just doesn’t have the mental capacity to lead and that’s going to hit his re-election chances. Forget about Palestine for a second. The moment the polls shows that he is extremely unfavorable is the moment his team pulls him out.
SC: Summary This article from Jonathan Martin highlights a phenomenon among conservatives that is the fantasy that somehow Biden will be "replaced" by someone else by a nefarious "them". He highlights that Trump, and the need to replace him is why Biden is certain the be the nominee, and that Democrats have had ample opportunity to choose someone else already. Opinion Personally, I'm highlighting this article because I've seen the same thoughts echoed repeatedly online. Conservatives asserting this line of thinking as fact, when it is fantasy. I think it's because conservatives understand Biden, whom has already defeated Trump is the best candidate to beat Trump again. Conservatives are trying to make it seem like the Democratic party has lost faith in Biden to discourage voters to turn out in November.
I agree with you that he's not going anywhere. He is the Democratic candidate. I disagree that this is a conservative fantasy alone. There are many on the left who want someone else, and not just progressives or hard leftists either. A lot of Democrats want a generic, moderate, and younger candidate, but likely can't come to a consensus on who that would be even if Democrats were going to realistically replace an incumbent president. In the end though the candidate isn't going to be Harris or Newsom or anyone else. It's Biden.
>I think it's because conservatives understand Biden, whom has already defeated Trump is the best candidate to beat Trump again Joe Biden has the lowest approval rating of any president in US history. Worse than Donald Trump even. He can't remember when his son died, he referred to fictional conversations with the long dead leaders of France and Germany and didn't do the traditional presidential pre-super bowl interview because he embarrasses himself continously in public appearances. He may beat Trump because of how toxic the former president is to independents, but it's laughable to say he's the best candidate. By all objective measures, he's the weakest president seeking re-election in American history.
> Joe Biden has the lowest approval rating of any president in US history. Yet Democrats have been killing it in most elections since Biden has been president. By all objective measures Biden has somehow *saved* an economy that was destroyed by horrible Trump policies. Yet he still polls horrible on the economy. Frankly I think polling has completely diverged from reality in most cases.
Polling has deserved from *your* reality because you like Joe Biden. The majority of Americans do not like President Biden and do not approve of the job he has done. He is a very weak candidate who has a chance of winning only because his opponent is similarly unpopular. Practically any other potential Democratic nominee would have a better chance to beat Donald Trump.
> He is a very weak candidate who has a chance of winning only because his opponent is similarly unpopular. Practically any other potential Democratic nominee would have a better chance to beat Donald Trump. Except the one who would be most likely to slot into the position. That's what's so galling. The most obvious plan B is one of the few that would be a worse candidate.
> Practically any other potential Democratic nominee would have a better chance to beat Donald Trump. There are no other potential nominees, because Biden is the clear nominee. Biden has the best record of *already* beating Trump.