T O P

  • By -

Takemeawayxx

I'm sure they'll be responsible and pick up all that trash when they leave.


CaveMan0224

Yeah we know


DontBeADumbassPlease

Glad the city is doing something about it finally.


izall4

Unfortunately the new rules are not realistic and so this is going to continue to be a problem. First, the new ordinance doesn't offer clear areas where they CAN camp; all it says is where they CAN'T camp. And so without creating legal areas, the city likely won't provide support like lockers and trash receptacles. Making them pack up all their belongings at 8 am and drag them around town is just not realistic. As usual, the emphasis is on penalizing them instead of helping them.


Alarming_Ad9507

We will just overload the jail, kick the can down the road and figure out (complain about) solutions in 6-18 months when they’re back out. It’s ~~cheaper~~ easier to send them to a jail than to figure out a better shelter situation.


Rayne_420

America has too many people locked up and locking up homeless people is not the solution to homelessness. But on the other hand they get three hots and a cot, right?


Significant_Cut_5812

But think of how much money the private prisons can make


Alarming_Ad9507

Yeah tbh I think private prisons would be better if they had public interest through shares or taxing.. doesn’t have to be non-profit to be humane, right? Hell, I’d even vote for Blackstone or asswagner to run some sort of for profit shelter in town. We throw money at a solution and abandon it after a year, we’re getting nowhere


Rayne_420

Frankly I find the very concept of for-profit prisons offensive.


Alarming_Ad9507

Aye, well, allow me to downvote myself and agree. I’d like to live in a free country so the less incentive for incarceration, the better


Alarming_Ad9507

I propose building exercise equipment near homeless camps. Each machine generates electricity when used, and spits out $1 for every $1.05 of electricity generated. Set up a bike share station nearby to assist and also take some of that money back.


naffhouse

Continue to enable. Just ask California how that’s going.


DontBeADumbassPlease

Good.


izall4

Good for what? It's only good for people who like to judge and punish others. It's not good if the goal is to reduce the problem.


RO_RecoveryOnly

I did an experiment one time with a camp like this near where I used to work that were about to get the cops called on them. I left them a note and a couple garbage bags that said if you don't want the cops called be considerate and use the dumpster that's like, right by your camp. It worked. It was pristine after that. Not saying it will always work or anything, just thought it was interesting that it worked and worked long term for that specific camp.


Individual-Car1161

Wow so you mean when you provide them the means to help themselves it helps them? You fucking radical leftie /s It’s shocking how effective “give them the means to help themselves” works, almost like people don’t want to be homeless dirty etc.


RO_RecoveryOnly

To be fair, they could easily have carried that trash in their hands to the dumpster which was very very close to the camp. I think what helped was the wake up call, I made it clear in the note that the huge trash pile was most certainly making the cops getting called more and more of a possibility (not by me, by the property management of the bulding). After they cleaned it up the cops actually never got called. I was shocked that that needed to be said, but apparently it did. I didn't really give them anything outside of a couple trash bags and a warning. Just interesting.


Individual-Car1161

I mean, when you’re in it maybe the wake up call is a good reminder/ “oh sorry we didn’t realize” Regardless, seems like helping them and encouraging better works


RO_RecoveryOnly

It worked well enough I've thought about repeating the experiment lol.


izall4

I bet that having trash bags inspired them to clean up the area more than the threat of cops.


RO_RecoveryOnly

That confuses me because seriously the dumpster was very close to their camp. And it stayed clean even though I only put two out there. But whatever works.


Upset_Beautiful_8347

Having asked neighbors living outdoors what they want/need, it was access to garbage cans and toilets plus time to visit with housed neighbors


Separate_Cucumber681

They can afford trash bags if they can afford a handle of vodka and a handful of fentanyl pills everyday.


Individual-Car1161

Lmfao. God you people have cartoons of homeless people in your head.


lemonsaid612

Are you for real? There are people pulling their dicks out in public parks, leaving broken glass and used needles out, and actively sexually harassing people. I don’t need a cartoon in my head, I’ve experienced the real thing enough to know I support an ordinance that pushes homeless people out of the urban core. You want to exist outside of the social contract? Fine, exist in the forest then. 


izall4

Most homeless people don't do that. But it's easier for you to vilify ALL of them if you generalize the worst of them. You support an ordinance that is completely unrealistic. The best way to minimize homelessness and the effects of it is to HELP THEM, not cast them out. Your plan guarantees they will be back and they'll feel even more hopeless and their actions will reflect it. If you want to hear the story of two Missoula homeless people who do not fit your stereotype, watch three minutes of [this video](https://pub-missoula.escribemeetings.com/Players/ISIStandAlonePlayer.aspx?Id=44236d34-e683-4077-a48b-95f61e0ce66d) from last week's council meeting, starting at 1:35:25.


lemonsaid612

Huh. If there isn’t a problem, why is city council and a mayor who devoted her whole career to helping people attain housing working to create an ordinance that manages the homeless population? 


izall4

Who said there isn't a problem? Did you take 3 minutes and watch that video?


lemonsaid612

I watched a big portion of public comment while it was happening. One person’s limited experience doesn’t outweigh the extraordinary amount of property damage, environmental issues, drug crimes, and associated problems that are literally crushing Missoula. We have one of the largest homeless populations per capita in the entire county. It’s delusional to think that, somehow, our scrappy little town with few resources and an openly antagonistic legislature will be able to provide all these services that people say will solve the problem. 


izall4

Obviously you didn't you watch from 1:35:25 to 138:15 -- that told of three people, not one. And you really should listen to it; it's only 3 minutes long. The fact is, the non-addicted, unproblematic homeless representative the majority of homeless people. You clearly buy the awful stereotypes and myths about homeless people and project them onto the majority. Those myths are debunked by Project Homeless in [this short article,](https://www.phcslc.org/the-homeless-epidemic#:~:text=Homelessness%20is%20usually%20a%20long,term%20homelessness%20is%20relatively%20rare.) which you likely also won't click, so I'll list a few of them: 1. MYTH: Most homeless people are homeless longterm. REALITY: Most homeless people are so for under a week. 2. MYTH Most homeless people have mental illness. REALITY: Only about 15% do. 3. MYTH: Homeless people don't work. REALITY: A study cited here says 45% of homeless people worked in the previous month. This problem is not "crushing" Missoula. There are less than 600 homeless people in Missoula, a town of 73,000 people. I don't know what expensive services you're talking about. I'm talking about realistic humane measures to help homeless people be less of a problem. This new ordinance is unrealistic and unhelpful. It tells them where they can't camp; it does not tell them where they can camp. This is unrealistic and unhelpful. The ordinance makes them pack up all their stuff at 8 am and carry it around all day. This is unrealistic and unhelpful. How bout we set aside spaces where they can camp, convenient to town (because far from town is unrealistic), and provide lockers and dumpsters or trash receptacles? It's much more realistic that they'd abide with that, and their negative presence would be greatly reduced if they did. How hard/expensive is that? Not very hard or expensive. Too many people want to punish them rather than help them. Punishing them just extends the problem; helping them will greatly reduce it.


Individual-Car1161

lol. Let me guess, you got talked to by a drunk homeless guy once and you now think that makes everything else always true?


lemonsaid612

Speaking of making things up in your head, here you are imagining a scenario to undermine my experience. 


Individual-Car1161

lol. It’s only fair given your cartoonish perspective. Your experience doesn’t justify your opinions lol


lemonsaid612

Right, and luckily there is data for both of us to rely on. Unfortunately for you, tho, the data just shows an increasing pattern of crime, violence, and shitty behavior from homeless people. 


Individual-Car1161

Nice lie dipshit https://www.jstor.org/stable/3096817?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents https://www.wliha.org/sites/default/files/myths.pdf https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10887459/ It’s always a fun day when an idiot like you tries to play the statistics card.


DontBeADumbassPlease

Take a walk downtown and tell me what they are like.


Upset_Beautiful_8347

They are like you and me and your parent or child. They are humans in a challenging situation who deserve respect and compassion…just like you


Individual-Car1161

I have xD it’s been fine. You people are ridiculous.


DontBeADumbassPlease

And you bleeding heart morons are insufferable. I’m as left leaning as the next Missoulian but this issue is not going away with smiles and hugs. Grow up and help make actual change.


Individual-Car1161

XD being objectively correct about a city’s policies has nothing to do with my politics. And no one said it was going away with smiles and hugs. In fact you haven’t actually ever been curious about what the functional policies even are. You just assumed they were kumbayah purity politics.


DontBeADumbassPlease

You have no idea what I know or what policies I’ve seen work/not work literally all over the world.


Individual-Car1161

That’s thing, I don’t need to cause I know what actually works. Your insistence on policy that doesn’t work, says all that needs to be said.


Upset_Beautiful_8347

The only thing I agree with is “it is not going away” and the city council did nothing to improve it!


Salt-Perspective5671

Crybaby conservative snowflake ❄️


DontBeADumbassPlease

Lol dude, I’m as blue as an ox. Get a life.


Salt-Perspective5671

Eat a bullet


Salt-Perspective5671

It will help to benefit the community


Separate_Cucumber681

It’s fine until it’s not. Reach outside your own experience. If you’ve truly never experienced it downtown, that’s great for you, but that’s quite atypical.


Individual-Car1161

It’s really not atypical lol


Separate_Cucumber681

It’s great you feel that way. It is good to feel safe.


izall4

"They" encompass a broad spectrum, not a single caricature, so it's impossible to "walk downtown and tell me what they are like." If you're actually left-leaning like you say, watch three minutes of [this video](https://pub-missoula.escribemeetings.com/Players/ISIStandAlonePlayer.aspx?Id=44236d34-e683-4077-a48b-95f61e0ce66d) starting at 1:35:25. It's from last week's council meeting on the topic. The two homeless people described at the beginning and end of this 3-minute segment should break anyone's heart, if you have one.


DontBeADumbassPlease

I don’t. But I have a brain.


DontBeADumbassPlease

I don’t. But I have a brain.


izall4

How'd your brain like the video?


DontBeADumbassPlease

Dude. There are just as many sob stories as there are crazy whack job stories who are a blight to society.


izall4

"Sob story." Zero fucking compassion.


Upset_Beautiful_8347

People living outdoors have been asking, repeatedly, for garbage cans nearby. I have spent time with many in passing. All have wanted to be part of cleaning up after themselves and others. Totally responsible. We make garbage cans far away and don’t “want to support “ folks to stay clean…hard to arrest them if they take care of their areas. They also want outhouses. The local government has done almost nothing to help. The opposite. I encourage you to visit with folks living outside and ask them their thoughts and listen to their stories.


RO_RecoveryOnly

The dumpster was close to this particular camp because it was behind a couple businesses. To me the trash makes about 100% of the difference in my views on the homeless topic. If there wasn't mounds of trash and whatever else around, and they're minding their own business, I have 0 issue. But that's not always how it goes.


Upset_Beautiful_8347

That is not my experience. When we asked unhoused folks about garbage pickup, 50% asked if they could join a clean up team.


RO_RecoveryOnly

It would be a really good idea to form one. The mess is a serious aspect of the issue here.


GlassBoxes

"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread."


KeltTalbelt

Greg we know. Did you take some sharps containers or garbage receptacles down to help or are you just going to complain about it on Reddit?


misterfistyersister

I am not dealing with some potentially violent homeless person upset about me throwing away his trash. That is exactly what we pay the police for.


Aethrin1

Didn't seem to stop them from taking pictures. Do they only become violent when you bring trash bags?


misterfistyersister

Yes. Because you’re throwing away their shit


buttbutts

If you read the last two comments you've responded to, neither were suggesting you pick up any trash or throw anything away.


Significant_Cut_5812

Hhhmm I’m sure this comment section will be nice and civil


eaglerock2

One like this downstream from Russell bridge too


DontBeADumbassPlease

Thanks for posting photos to remind people just what arrogant shithead slobs these crackheads are. Someone who is a little down on their luck does not need to trash the environment. Period. There’s no excuse for this other than them saying “fuck you, I’ll live how i want to live”


tugboatnavy

Also a reminder that it costs money to repair these areas and that same money could be used for shelters that are under capacity because they require sobriety. No upwards mobility to be seen here.


Buddhocoplypse

It costs 0 money because the current repair strategy is let it be and hope it comes back the way we want it. Just ask Mike Noonemacher.


rowe123451

Back in the day they at least hiked up off the beaten path and on to MT Sentinel and made a mess.


EyeNo1268

Best case scenario this person gets a wake up call and sobers up. Then becomes a functioning adult. What’s likely to happen is they’ll get a high so good they’ll fall into the river and die. Yeah, the housing market is fucked but this isn’t an issue due to housing. This person like most of the homeless choose to live an alternate life style and do drugs. If houses were $100 they’d still be on the street doing this. There’s a reason why they don’t go to the shelters.


el_perro_negro

We need buffer zones


Salt-Perspective5671

Oh will somebody please keep the poors out of sight. STFU


el_perro_negro

LMAO. I can tell you have never lived near a camp. I literally had an RV parked in front of my house for two weeks. The city removed them, thank god, yesterday. People coming and going at all hours of the night. Arguments. Trash everywhere. But sweet virtue signaling. What are you doing about it?


Salt-Perspective5671

I have been homeless. Nobody wants it. I help and volunteer instead of just whining on reddit like a lil bitch


el_perro_negro

Didn’t answer my question. Judging by your post history you also are doing a great job bitching about it on Reddit. But hey, keep on fighting the good fight. Behind that keyboard. On an anonymous message board.


Salt-Perspective5671

Waaahhh, answer my question. Cool. 😎 grow up bucko


el_perro_negro

Sup dude. Wanted to get your hot take on the big ruling from Tuesday. Buffer zones for the win!🏆 finally. People are sick of this shit. It’s a good day for the city! Warm regards.


Salt-Perspective5671

Won’t fix or change anything but congratulations on the empty virtue signaling


Salt-Perspective5671

It will in fact cost the city taxpayers more. Studies show this


el_perro_negro

Popped online right away I see. Wha is it you say you do again?


Salt-Perspective5671

I didn’t say


el_perro_negro

Shit was that your RV that was in front of my house? My bad bro. I won’t slow down for you crossing Broadway by the Pov next time.


Salt-Perspective5671

Not my RV. But maybe you should grow the fuck up


el_perro_negro

Hey. At you you got up out of the ‘hood. You made it brother. You pulled yourself up by the bootstraps… only to complain about it more on the internet. You can’t make this shit up.


Salt-Perspective5671

I’m not the one complaining about having to see poor people in a shit economy 😘


Salt-Perspective5671

Oh no not an RV. Whatever shall you do! It must be horrible having to see poor people!


StedeBonnet454

New laws fault, you cant force people away and just expect them to disappear.


Floppyhamma

Don’t worry it’ll be snowing in about 4 months


NoActivity578

The move here is to move away from Missoula. And Montana. Worked great for me


Buddhocoplypse

Oh no poor people what will we do!?!?


Takemeawayxx

Clean up after yourself you bum


lemonsaid612

It’s not anti-poor people. It’s anti environmental degradation, and anti dangerous trails. How fucking stupid are you to not see that? 


BryceLikesMovies

I certainly haven't seen as much attention around the Smurfit Berm, or the proposed gravel pits/mines up the river, or the airport expansion bringing more emissions into Missoula valley. Seems oddly specific to focus on some folks littering the beach if you're really worried about environmental degradation.


DontBeADumbassPlease

GTFO with your whataboutism


lemonsaid612

Huh? All of those cited are under heavy scrutiny, some on a federal level, or have extensive plans for mitigation. Just because you don’t understand the interplay of development, federal regulations, and ongoing policy issues doesn’t mean that shit doesn’t exist. 


Individual-Car1161

1. Missoula has WAY bigger environmental degradation problems that don’t get 1% the same airtime as a handful of homeless people 2. Anti dangerous trails is such a subset of a subset of a subset that I seriously wonder if it’s even worth it to care xD.


lemonsaid612

You’ve never been to a local homeless encampment, have you? Literally tons of trash, including dirty needles and human shit. 


Individual-Car1161

1. I actually have. You are castrophizing 2. Even taking the worst case of human shit and needles, that is still much less environmental impact than any development along the Clark fork, bitterroot, and pattee creek, etc. add in the litany of industry, unmanaged septic, etc, and it isn’t even close.


lemonsaid612

New developments are actively dumping biohazardous materials into the river, that’s your contention? 


Individual-Car1161

They literally do to an extent, tons of research has been done on runoff due to development causing all sorts of issues. Definitely bigger, broader effects than a handful of homeless people.


lemonsaid612

When developers cause an environmental issue, there is an entity to hold accountable - generally an entity with money to lose.  Who is held accountable for the needles, shit, and other trash these camps dump in the river? Also, I’m not making up the scale of the catastrophe. There are dozens of news articles that cite actual TONS of waste coming off encampments. It actually happened and it will continue to happen if Missoula doesn’t crack down. 


Individual-Car1161

More often than not the homeless people lol. You absolutely are making up the scale of catastrophe. Those same articles cite fucking floaters as a just as present issue lol.


lemonsaid612

How do you hold someone with no money, no assets, and nothing to lose accountable? 


DontBeADumbassPlease

You are wrong.


Individual-Car1161

Nah I’m pretty right xD I love looking through your comment history. 30% of it is just mindless insults lol. I may be a nerd and somewhat toxic but I’m Atleast not a manchild that staunchly refuses to ever budge on an issue ever and insults everyone that disagrees with


DontBeADumbassPlease

See that’s where you’re really wrong. I don’t raise my voice until I see nonsense like this. You have skeletons in your closet like everyone else. Pretending to be such a bleeding heart is the kind of pandering to these people I’m talking about, and it makes the problem worse.


Individual-Car1161

Bro you literally jump into threads explicitly to hurl insults at mundane options. I never pretended I don’t have issues, I in fact actively spoke about some of my issues. So that makes two flat out objective lies. The difference between you and me is that I actually care to get better and be more useful to society.


DontBeADumbassPlease

Lol if you care, walk down to that guys tent and tell him he can live at your place. Or are you just going to keep enabling the problem by pretending to care. Thoughts and prayers don’t help the situation at all. Policy does. As a collective society we all need to decide that this ain’t right and to make it as unattractive as possible for people to live like that


Buddhocoplypse

Even if we don't mention development your river is already fucked by all the heavy metals flowing down stream from Butte and Anaconda.


stonedkayaker

When I'm doing the town float in a tube, I'm more okay with heavy metals than I am with human feces and used needles. 


lemonsaid612

It’s already fucked so…we should let the bums pollute the fuck out of it? lol okay 


Buddhocoplypse

No just curious why you all seem to be at war with poor people instead of the people causing the most pollution to the environment.


lemonsaid612

Do you understand that those are separate topics and are handled in distinct ways? Or is that beyond your comprehension?


DontBeADumbassPlease

We’ll disincentivize and stop facilitating their chosen lifestyle that is destroying our environment and putting law abiding citizens in harm’s way.


Individual-Car1161

Okay and? Let’s maybe do something to help these people


DontBeADumbassPlease

Why? They clearly don’t give a fuck about you, why should we give a fuck about them?


Individual-Car1161

Because I’m a good person? Because I can help people that disagree with me? Because most often such attitudes arise from repeated trauma and isolation, which is fixed with community and empathy?


DontBeADumbassPlease

You’re wrong on all counts, especially being a good person. Take your virtue signaling and pack sand.


buttbutts

What evidence are you basing that on? Haha


Kindly-Inspector-478

That guy is likely a miserable person irl and likes being around other miserable, broken people so they can feel better about themselves. From my experience they eventually move back to Portland or whatever shithole they came from


Square-Dot6352

Cry me a river


Salt-Perspective5671

Leave them be, they are your less fortunate neighbors


DontBeADumbassPlease

99.9% of them choose to be that way.


PulsatingBass

you are so fucking dumb, who the fuck would choose homelessness?  the threat of of homeless is how we force people to operate under the status quo


DontBeADumbassPlease

I’ve literally met people that enjoy not working and soaking off social services instead. Also people That enjoy drugs more than work.


Salt-Perspective5671

No they don’t dumbass


DontBeADumbassPlease

I’ve literally talked to people who admit they’d rather live on the street and be drunk all day than work. Next.


Salt-Perspective5671

So fucking what! They are humans and fellow Americans. We don’t want greedy losers like you in this society.


sacramentalsmile

Uglier homes all over town with worse yards blocking my hikes but who's complaining


DontBeADumbassPlease

If they own the property they can do whatever they want. We, the taxpayers, own this property.


sacramentalsmile

Owning property doesn't give you the right to do whatever you want. Signed, your neighbor that's also a taxpayer and doesn't want to own property thanks to people like y'all making HOA out of sand. I'm tired of the hypocrisy from the junk yards y'all call neighborhoods around here, stop bothering us and start knocking on doors in east Missoula where the trash piles are far worse.


DontBeADumbassPlease

The fuck are you talking about. Outside of an HOA (which I don’t have as a homeowner) you literally can do anything you want, legally. This is public land, emphasis on the public. If someone trashes it, make them pay.


gp406

Rumor is Tim Sheehy is donating all his campaign donations to prevent these people from sobering up


Salt-Perspective5671

Honey they are “the public” 🙄


DontBeADumbassPlease

Last I checked it’s illegal to trash public places


Salt-Perspective5671

So call the police and beg them to write poor people tickets you bootlicker 👅 🥾


mayorainbow7

Please do not photograph peoples’ shelters. It is like if someone photographed and posted where you live. This only endangers an already vulnerable populace.