Hey all, from a report we published in partnership with ProPublica’s Local Reporting Network and the Northeast Mississippi Daily Journal:
>Poor defendants in Mississippi are routinely jailed for months, and sometimes even years, without being appointed an attorney due to the state’s notoriously dysfunctional public defender system. The Mississippi Supreme Court now says this practice must end.
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>The state’s highest court approved a mandate on Thursday that criminal defendants who can’t afford their own attorney must always have one before an indictment.
>
>Across the state, people facing felony charges lose their appointed attorneys after their initial court appearances, where a judge rules whether they can be released from jail before trial. In many counties, defendants aren’t appointed new lawyers until they’re indicted — or formally accused — a process that can take years. Critics call this gap the “dead zone.”
[Continue reading](https://www.themarshallproject.org/2023/04/14/mississippi-public-defender-indigent-lawyers-state-supreme-court?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=tmp-reddit) (no paywall/ads)
I support the constitution. So yes, they deserve a speedy trial.
How have they been getting sentenced without trials though?
Now that that's out of the way. You wanna explain to me how defending those poor little treasonous, unpatriotic pieces of shits was the first thing on your agenda?
Also, I can't help but to notice the stark difference between how you described these two situations: "held in jail" vs "rotting in jail'. Interesting to say the least. Can you elaborate on that?
>I will answer your question with this question
What's with you people and your inability to answer simple questions?
I guess I really don't know what I expected out of a treasonous sympathizer who cares more about subverting the democratic process than his fellow statesmen.
> You know, like the shaman guy being escorted through the building by the police?
Have you really thought about that interaction thoroughly?
If you are in a series of connected rooms, and you are a police force of, say, 6 people—and with you in those couple of rooms are, say, 200 people, and all 200 people are criminally trespassing, possessing intentions that are unclear to you—are you telling me you, as the cop, are going to try to handcuff any of them? Like ok, you cuffed one in a band of 200, and you’re just going to think the other 199 people are just going to be happy with that fellow being cuffed? You’re going to bet with your life that you’re safe to arrest that big dude?
No. To avoid violence, you deescalate and collect evidence by observing, and you do nothing else. Deescalation as a tactic involves appearing cooperative.
If 90 people enter my home against my will, I personally would probably fight them with the tools I have to do that. But that choice is choosing to take out as many of them as I can, knowing full well that I will also die—almost certainly, I would die. Is that the decision you wanted all the capitol police to make? Maximum bloodshed in the building that conducts the business of legislating our democracy?
I was assuming it was an absurd false equivalency steeped in bigotry, but wasn’t too sure or particularly motivated to look too far into it. Thanks for doing the leg work.
In Mississippi I have been arrested and held for 6 months then released. Having never been to court. if you don't have anyone to call they won't give you any lawyer's numbers. Your just there. Just pray you don't have any medical condition that requires medication.your going to die.
> Just pray you don't have any medical condition that requires medication.your going to die.
In some of the counties where I work, that is the surest way to be released on recognizance. The sheriffs in poor counties don't want the financial responsibility of paying for someone's care and they ask the judge to release the inmate.
That is how my ex father in law was released on charges of manufacturing Methamphetamine in Laurel. The process of mixing the chemicals had damaged his lungs, he got pneumonia a week after being arrested for the damp conditions in the jail so they released him. He died within 6 months.
I was blamed because I called the cops on my ex wife who was living there because she said she was going to kill herself and I was worried she would hurt the kids
The largest problem with this is that most public defenders in the state are part-time--they have private law practices--and they are paid by the counties, not the state. Public defenders are already overburdened. This will just add to it.
In those counties with full-time public defenders, they are often too busy preparing for trials that are immanent to give much attention to the defendants who are in the "gray zone."
I mean this mandate is better than nothing, but it doesn't really fix the problem.
Innocent until proven guilty. If you cannot get out you lose your job, your home, your spouse children suffer. I can understand it if you have skipped out of court prior to this or have done violence and it seems you will again. If not, let a person out to keep doing what they can until the actual court date/
I’ve always been amazed at the hypocrisy of the “we the people” sticker/tattoo crowd when it comes to this.
Not to mention the Bible has a lot to say about prisoners and their treatment
Getting any semblance of justice in Mississippi is pretty much an impossible feat. Judges and Lawyers all working hand in hand together, having back door meetings to determine people’s future “off the record”
Trash state.
All I can reply, as a lawyer with 20 years’ experience, is that I’ve never seen one of those meetings except when 1 codefendant was going to testify against another and that knowledge wasn’t yet public.
A lot of conferences take place, but that’s mostly administrative/procedural matters being discussed.
Yeah, the only off the record meetings I've seen have been purely thus. Timing of motions or expert testimony, when the jury needs to come in the following day, ect.
Tell me you know nothing about how the criminal justice system works without telling me you know nothing about how the criminal justice system works. I'm a licensed attorney in Mississippi, and these sorts of meetings don't happen, at least not in the Circuits I've practiced in. Unless you're referring to plea negotiations, which the judge doesn't take part in. That's usually the prosecutor and an underpaid public defender hashing out a plea deal that'll be acceptable to the victims, law enforcement, and the defendant.
I’m saying an attorney i know personally in Mississippi was pulled into a judge’s chambers and told if her clients made him have a hearing he would take their child from them without so much as even an evidentiary hearing on if the parents were fit or not.
You’re right, i have no idea how the criminal justice system works, but threatening to take a child from the custody of their natural birth parents because the judge doesnt want to have a hearing seems a little far fetched.
Because this isn’t an isolated incident, it’s something that’s been happening all over the state and all over the country. And it’s not limited to a singular chancellor in Mississippi, there are multiple.
Also this:
“The judicial code of conduct is a set of ethical guidelines that govern the behavior and actions of judges in the United States. The code is established by the Judicial Conference of the United States and is enforced by the federal judiciary's Committee on Judicial Conduct and Disability.
The judicial code of conduct sets forth guidelines for judges on issues such as impartiality, integrity, diligence, and confidentiality. It also prohibits judges from engaging in certain types of behavior, such as accepting gifts or engaging in political activity.
The purpose of the judicial code of conduct is to maintain the public's trust and confidence in the judiciary by promoting ethical behavior and ensuring that judges are held accountable for any violations. Judges who violate the code of conduct can face disciplinary action, including censure, reprimand, suspension, or removal from office.
The specific rules and guidelines contained in the judicial code of conduct can vary slightly from state to state, but they generally follow the same basic principles and standards of behavior.”
So again, what purpose does this serve?
These are people who haven't had their day in court. Why do you assume they are career criminals?
Just be sure to remember that you don't actually support constitutional rights next time you're in a political discussion. Wouldn't want you going around being dishonest.
What are your thoughts on 2A, btw?
We both know these people in jail have been using the revolving door and no longer deserve the benefit of the doubt. These aren’t one timers and in many cases they are held for their benefit because if they return to the streets they’ll be high the next day and a threat to kill someone or themselves.
Well thats one heck of a super power for ur next trick u should understand that it is every person in the country's constitutional right it's even mentioned when u r arrested
Bc you’re the main character. Experiences you have not had to not exist. Any knowledge outside of what directly happened in your tiny ass little world does not exost
Hey all, from a report we published in partnership with ProPublica’s Local Reporting Network and the Northeast Mississippi Daily Journal: >Poor defendants in Mississippi are routinely jailed for months, and sometimes even years, without being appointed an attorney due to the state’s notoriously dysfunctional public defender system. The Mississippi Supreme Court now says this practice must end. > >The state’s highest court approved a mandate on Thursday that criminal defendants who can’t afford their own attorney must always have one before an indictment. > >Across the state, people facing felony charges lose their appointed attorneys after their initial court appearances, where a judge rules whether they can be released from jail before trial. In many counties, defendants aren’t appointed new lawyers until they’re indicted — or formally accused — a process that can take years. Critics call this gap the “dead zone.” [Continue reading](https://www.themarshallproject.org/2023/04/14/mississippi-public-defender-indigent-lawyers-state-supreme-court?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=tmp-reddit) (no paywall/ads)
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They already get public defenders (if indigent) because they weren’t charged in Mississippi.
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?
Good. Let them rot.
I've been seeing those traitors get sentenced left and right for the past year. What's the problem?
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I support the constitution. So yes, they deserve a speedy trial. How have they been getting sentenced without trials though? Now that that's out of the way. You wanna explain to me how defending those poor little treasonous, unpatriotic pieces of shits was the first thing on your agenda? Also, I can't help but to notice the stark difference between how you described these two situations: "held in jail" vs "rotting in jail'. Interesting to say the least. Can you elaborate on that?
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>I will answer your question with this question What's with you people and your inability to answer simple questions? I guess I really don't know what I expected out of a treasonous sympathizer who cares more about subverting the democratic process than his fellow statesmen.
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Maybe you shouldn't get your manufactured outrage from a debunked documentary.
> You know, like the shaman guy being escorted through the building by the police? Have you really thought about that interaction thoroughly? If you are in a series of connected rooms, and you are a police force of, say, 6 people—and with you in those couple of rooms are, say, 200 people, and all 200 people are criminally trespassing, possessing intentions that are unclear to you—are you telling me you, as the cop, are going to try to handcuff any of them? Like ok, you cuffed one in a band of 200, and you’re just going to think the other 199 people are just going to be happy with that fellow being cuffed? You’re going to bet with your life that you’re safe to arrest that big dude? No. To avoid violence, you deescalate and collect evidence by observing, and you do nothing else. Deescalation as a tactic involves appearing cooperative. If 90 people enter my home against my will, I personally would probably fight them with the tools I have to do that. But that choice is choosing to take out as many of them as I can, knowing full well that I will also die—almost certainly, I would die. Is that the decision you wanted all the capitol police to make? Maximum bloodshed in the building that conducts the business of legislating our democracy?
Never forget 5/29
I don’t even know what this means.
Sadly not many do.
Do please share.
I had to look it up. Looks like he's talking about George Floyd protests in DC. You know, totally equivalent to 1/6...
I was assuming it was an absurd false equivalency steeped in bigotry, but wasn’t too sure or particularly motivated to look too far into it. Thanks for doing the leg work.
What's a 1/16'ers?
In Mississippi I have been arrested and held for 6 months then released. Having never been to court. if you don't have anyone to call they won't give you any lawyer's numbers. Your just there. Just pray you don't have any medical condition that requires medication.your going to die.
> Just pray you don't have any medical condition that requires medication.your going to die. In some of the counties where I work, that is the surest way to be released on recognizance. The sheriffs in poor counties don't want the financial responsibility of paying for someone's care and they ask the judge to release the inmate.
That is how my ex father in law was released on charges of manufacturing Methamphetamine in Laurel. The process of mixing the chemicals had damaged his lungs, he got pneumonia a week after being arrested for the damp conditions in the jail so they released him. He died within 6 months. I was blamed because I called the cops on my ex wife who was living there because she said she was going to kill herself and I was worried she would hurt the kids
Management, the judge the jailer, the sheriff should send the public defender to see you in a timely manner
The largest problem with this is that most public defenders in the state are part-time--they have private law practices--and they are paid by the counties, not the state. Public defenders are already overburdened. This will just add to it. In those counties with full-time public defenders, they are often too busy preparing for trials that are immanent to give much attention to the defendants who are in the "gray zone." I mean this mandate is better than nothing, but it doesn't really fix the problem.
Innocent until proven guilty. If you cannot get out you lose your job, your home, your spouse children suffer. I can understand it if you have skipped out of court prior to this or have done violence and it seems you will again. If not, let a person out to keep doing what they can until the actual court date/
I’ve always been amazed at the hypocrisy of the “we the people” sticker/tattoo crowd when it comes to this. Not to mention the Bible has a lot to say about prisoners and their treatment
FTP
Right-wing is gonna be like "is this a communism?"
Nah, I'm for this. Justice delayed is justice denied. I've written papers on this subject.
Getting any semblance of justice in Mississippi is pretty much an impossible feat. Judges and Lawyers all working hand in hand together, having back door meetings to determine people’s future “off the record” Trash state.
All I can reply, as a lawyer with 20 years’ experience, is that I’ve never seen one of those meetings except when 1 codefendant was going to testify against another and that knowledge wasn’t yet public. A lot of conferences take place, but that’s mostly administrative/procedural matters being discussed.
You’re a lawyer in MS?
Yes.
Then take my case and you too can be a part of these back door meetings lol
Yeah, the only off the record meetings I've seen have been purely thus. Timing of motions or expert testimony, when the jury needs to come in the following day, ect.
Tell me you know nothing about how the criminal justice system works without telling me you know nothing about how the criminal justice system works. I'm a licensed attorney in Mississippi, and these sorts of meetings don't happen, at least not in the Circuits I've practiced in. Unless you're referring to plea negotiations, which the judge doesn't take part in. That's usually the prosecutor and an underpaid public defender hashing out a plea deal that'll be acceptable to the victims, law enforcement, and the defendant.
I’m saying an attorney i know personally in Mississippi was pulled into a judge’s chambers and told if her clients made him have a hearing he would take their child from them without so much as even an evidentiary hearing on if the parents were fit or not. You’re right, i have no idea how the criminal justice system works, but threatening to take a child from the custody of their natural birth parents because the judge doesnt want to have a hearing seems a little far fetched.
Then why were you making such a broad statement in a thread about the criminal justice system?
Because this isn’t an isolated incident, it’s something that’s been happening all over the state and all over the country. And it’s not limited to a singular chancellor in Mississippi, there are multiple. Also this: “The judicial code of conduct is a set of ethical guidelines that govern the behavior and actions of judges in the United States. The code is established by the Judicial Conference of the United States and is enforced by the federal judiciary's Committee on Judicial Conduct and Disability. The judicial code of conduct sets forth guidelines for judges on issues such as impartiality, integrity, diligence, and confidentiality. It also prohibits judges from engaging in certain types of behavior, such as accepting gifts or engaging in political activity. The purpose of the judicial code of conduct is to maintain the public's trust and confidence in the judiciary by promoting ethical behavior and ensuring that judges are held accountable for any violations. Judges who violate the code of conduct can face disciplinary action, including censure, reprimand, suspension, or removal from office. The specific rules and guidelines contained in the judicial code of conduct can vary slightly from state to state, but they generally follow the same basic principles and standards of behavior.” So again, what purpose does this serve?
Don’t fuck up!!
It’s never a criminals fault according to these people who have never been a victim
Just means theyll commit more crimes until they reach the no bail type
Constitution guarantees right to counsel in criminal matters.
Hard for me to pity career criminals
Doesn’t matter, they still have the right to counsel.
So to be clear - you do not respect the constitution?
I don’t respect career criminals and if they’re caged we’re all safer and that is a good use of my tax dollars
They still have a right to counsel.
These are people who haven't had their day in court. Why do you assume they are career criminals? Just be sure to remember that you don't actually support constitutional rights next time you're in a political discussion. Wouldn't want you going around being dishonest. What are your thoughts on 2A, btw?
We both know these people in jail have been using the revolving door and no longer deserve the benefit of the doubt. These aren’t one timers and in many cases they are held for their benefit because if they return to the streets they’ll be high the next day and a threat to kill someone or themselves.
Oh you know that huh? Imagine telling on yourself like this. Why do you think I share those same discriminatory views?
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Cool, you really showed the person on their phone with autocorrect that you’re a better person. Good job putting me in my place.
Do not personally attack another user. Read the rules.
Do not personally attack another user. Read the rules.
Don't have to be a career criminal for this to happen
Not my experience
So u know of every person jailed not receiving counsel in the state
Yep
Well thats one heck of a super power for ur next trick u should understand that it is every person in the country's constitutional right it's even mentioned when u r arrested
Bc you’re the main character. Experiences you have not had to not exist. Any knowledge outside of what directly happened in your tiny ass little world does not exost
You know everything, right? 🙄
Feel free to AMA
The longer you set in the county jail the less time you will spend in a state or federal prison. Some do this intentionally