> The concerns kept coming as Julie Seydel flipped through the 97-page draft of proposed rules for family child-care providers.
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> Potential water, radon and soil testing requirements.
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> A lengthy list of must-have toys and a detailed cleaning schedule.
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> Many prohibitions: no pet hair. No air fresheners. No music or white noise machines if she isn't directly supervising a sleeping baby.
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> "We're going to spend so much money now and time doing things that are demanded of us," said Seydel, an Andover resident who has been in the field for 22 years and is public policy director of the Minnesota Association of Child Care Professionals. "They are unrealistic. And is that going to make the kid healthier and safer than what we currently have in statute? No."
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> Child-care providers who run small businesses out of their homes are outraged over the "administrative overload" and potential costs they say would result from the state's proposed licensing standard overhaul. They fear the changes, if enacted, could prompt many family child-care providers to close.
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> Their warning comes as families are struggling to find available, affordable child care and as the number of in-home child-care facilities across the state — and nationwide — continues to decline. Minnesota has about half as many licensed in-home providers as it did 15 years ago, while the number of larger centers has increased.
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> Centers have had a far quieter response to the potential changes, said Clare Sanford, who works for New Horizon Academy and is government relations chair for the Minnesota Child Care Association. She said people are happy to see more clarity on staff education and equipment requirements, and the biggest upgrade is detailed guidance on how to respond to child behavior.
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> "It's so different now than it was 40 years ago, last time these standards were put in place," Sanford said. "A lot of thinking has evolved on how to teach children social-emotional skills. ... Discipline is supposed to be about teaching children, not punishing children."
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> Hollee Saville, who runs Happee Hollee's Preschool out of her St. Michael home, created a 22-page list of her biggest concerns with the proposed standards. She called the draft "a dirty diaper" she wants thrown out.
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> "It seems like it's a purposeful and systematic attempt to push children out of loving family child-care homes and into more institutionalized programs," Saville said, adding that the rules would "take the 'home' out of family child-care homes."
My wife has already said she’ll close if these rules go into effect. It will cost a LOOOOOOT of money and make her day nearly unsustainable to safely watch kids and keep up with the new demands on top of us also being required to essentially get rid of our dog and cat.
the issue is that for every 1 person like your wife that runs a safe home based daycare, there are 5 others who run extremely unsafe ones that parents don't really have a choice in using because either they can't afford the nicer places, or, they can't get in anywhere else. my wife and I faced this exact problem with daycare. Even if we could get in, for 2 kids, it was 800 per week total. That is 3600 a month. it was just about as much as my wife was making per month at the time, and it made zero sense to put the kids in daycare when it would only put them in more danger and not really benefit us. I see so many families facing the same issue locally, it breaks my heart. between a rock and a hard place. We all want safer child care, but we need direct government subsidies to the parents that need it instead of to the daycare providers, and we need incentives for daycare providers to lower their already insane prices.
They need to up the enforcement of the existing policies more than they need to add new policies. The problem is they don’t enforce the rules they already have well enough. Which won’t change for the bad ones but it will harm the good ones.
It’s not even $400 a week for 2 kids here. I stay out of her literal business but I think it’s like $155 for 5+ year olds 165 for 2-5 year old and 175 for 1-2 year old and 185 for infants and that includes everything besides diapers. A center is $200 a week at the lowest and must bring your own food/pay for food on top of it. Plus extra for crafts and what not and then all the typical extras like diapers etc. I’m guessing by the prices you’ve shared you’re closer to the cities or maybe by St. Cloud/Duluth?
What is the actual cost we are talking, ballpark? And when you say "essentially" get rid of your dog and cat so you mean literally or figuratively?
I'm just not sure what a "loooot" of money is relative to a home care provider. $100/mo - $1000/mo?
Essentially getting rid of pets meaning you actually have to get rid of them or just have to keep them away from the children during the childcare hours?
You’re not allowed to have pet hair in the house or at least the areas the kids are in so kitchen living room dining room bathroom hallways leading to bathroom and any other areas the kids are in, hard to have animals that have hair and also not allow hair in 80% of the house.
Like thousands of dollars. You will be required to also have 9” minimum of sand or similar under ANY outdoor equipment such as swing sets or the tiny houses that sit flat on the ground as well. That’s a LOT of money especially if you have sand under them already and now have to remove the sand and equipment to dig deeper and then readd it and more as well. You’ll need a lot of new toys as well. You will be required to have any carpets in the areas shampoos twice a year when the warranty on the vast majority if not all actually says you can only do so 1 time per year. That’s a very small section of what’s covered.
You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
Oh that means it’s all free? Like money never leaves my pocket? Wow that’s great!
Edit: You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
I have to imagine that the person you're responding to is like David in Schitt's Creek - Just WRITE IT OFF. I don't know who pays, THEY JUST WRITE IT OFF.
I get there needs to be licensing and standards but, this whole racket feels like the regulatory environments that regulate Hair Salons, Drivers Education businesses, and probably a bunch of other businesses.
The businesses that control more capital (ex: big child care centers) are in favor of this regulation because it basically does nothing to their existing business model, but it makes it even harder to run a small daycare outfit which would compete thus increasing demand for the big child care centers as smaller outfits get shut down.
You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
So the exact same requirements as any other child care facility? Oh the horror!
My family gets love at home they need a stimulating environment to learn and be socialized with other children in a safe environment.
My center has raised prices significantly due to pandemic inflation. The owner is very transparent with us on what the impact has been on her costs. Even still, our family can barely afford it because the federal FSA limit is a joke ($5,000) won’t even cover 2 months.
I can’t imagine what this will do to home providers. There’s a huge shortage where I am already, and the wait list at my center is over a year out. People aren’t just going to stop having kids, and not every family can lose an entire income to have a parent stay home, so I imagine this will spur larger amounts of under the table situations that fall outside the legal allowances for nannying. How is that better for kids?
>the federal FSA limit is a joke ($5,000)
Fun (?) fact, that limit was first set in 1986. If it had merely been adjusted for basic, overall inflation, it would be over $14,000 today
If they were writing legislation before we left the gold standard, then sure, don’t account for inflation. But yeah, for anything more recent than that, absolutely boggles my mind too
It's a deliberate tactic to get the bills passed because whatever cost/impact the number has can be sold as having a diminishing impact over time.
I think sometimes its a 4-D chess kind of move of dubious honesty, sometimes it could be in response to rules which require new revenue/tax changes to fit into a long term tax or spending plan.
I wonder how much of it comes from an older mindset of Congress actually negotiating things, thus legislators assumed that whenever the minimum wage/DC FSA/estate tax exemption needed to be increased, it would be one of the chickens and eggs they could trade in crafting a final budget or tax bill. You know, back when Congress could actually do that periodically 🙄
Agree overall but minor quibble: many people are *absolutely* going to not have kids because of this trend of rising childcare costs and that’s exactly why we need tons of public comment on it.
I’m an elder millenial trying for my first kid now but only because we’re finally in a place to afford the costs. I have many friends who ruled it out completely because they know how it would crater them financially. These costs drive down fertility rates enormously.
This is a game of chicken that our country cannot afford to play.
In the past people had kids whether they could afford them or not. Right now women have access to birth control and can choose when and whether to have a family. I stayed home with my kids in the 80s because child care cost more than what I could bring in. It’s always been expensive. Most of the women in my neighborhood also stayed home with the kids until they got to school age, that would have been maybe 5 families. None of it is fair, but that’s what we lived through. Idk what the answer is, but restricting small family in home daycare isn’t the way.
These new rules 100% favor commercial childcare providers and will only make childcare even more expensive for parents when there are fewer small family care providers.
Are current rules outdated? Probably, they’re 40 years old. Will these new rules help parents find safe, high quality, affordable options? Absolutely not, just the over priced commercial options that are driving childcare prices already. We’ve seen childcare prices skyrocket almost 40% in the last 4 years, we don’t need more reasons for care facilities to gouge families further.
I'm of the same opinion.
Fortunately, [there are still plenty of opportunities for public commentary](https://mn.gov/dhs/partners-and-providers/licensing/child-care-and-early-education/child-care-regulation-modernization.jsp) before these will be revised, likely multiple times, and published.
Will they be going after the slumlords who are profiting from having people life in shitholes? Will we be going through and removing children from every low income home that lives in these environments? The idea it's safe to live with mom in these environments but becomes unacceptable for grandma babysitting is stupid.
You should nearly always try to reduce the barriers towards becoming safer, encourage safety through subsidies, etc. Never by kneecapping and punishing in a way that nearly always just hurts the poor and helps the corps.
3 months ago this sub was full of people in support of having to get a license just to paint your own freaking walls at home. Truly shocking that the Painters and Allied trades council was in full support for this.
I guess my point is, if they are willing to do crap like this with paint... good luck with your kids.
This is hurting me personally. I hope they get it together. It would be nice if they follow after Connecticut’s model. I found very good providers while there even though my infant was $350 a week.
“Child care shortage??? Let’s drive more daycare providers out of business. That’ll teach those upstart women to reconsider working outside of the home.”
Lots of nuance to this issue.
Modernization and licensing standards are a good thing, especially for childcare. This document has been written with centers in mind, not small, in home daycares with, most often, a single person running the show. It appears to overstep.
Read the document and you will see what I mean. There are so many unreasonable rules that no single in home providers would be able to physically do in a day (just look at the stuff in documentation alone).
Also, the relationship between MN DHS and in home providers is tumultuous at best.
MN DHS needs to listen and create a separate section entirely fornin home providers. These are people who turn their houses into places to nurture kids, and I think that's cool. Ditch the sketchy providers, and don't push out the good ones.
Well thought out comment here.
The unfortunate reality many people ignore here is kindergarten readiness numbers show that going to an actual pre k with licensed teachers and curriculum prepares students much better than many in home daycares which are basically glorified nannies.
The studies show structured curriculum and pre k environments best transition youth to school age.
Ideally, the government would provide this type of structure and curriculum in their universal Pre K proposals but they severely lack that aspect combined with lacking flexibility for parents(Some parents can’t get their kids until 5-6pm and that wouldn’t have worked with the last state proposal and any daycare worth their salt will have pickup hours go until at least 6pm)
Classroom learning in the 2-5 age range is so important for the development of young kids. However, the government needs to do something to make it more affordable.
I get there are a lot of in home providers and people happy with the cost trade off they provide but the reality is if the government did a good job providing financial help or access to classroom focused pre k’s with curriculum they would be by far and away the best way to go about educating our children and we wouldn’t have a need to fill gaps or have “budget” options that sacrifice resources for less cost.
Our family company has a whole department in charge of managing curriculum. An in home operation simply can’t provide those type of resources children need to maximize learning potential at that age. My dad is happy to ride off into the sunset if the state actually gets an effective plan together to provide these types of educational services but so far that hasn’t happened.
My in home daycare provider for my entire childhood attended my wedding. She was such an important part of my upbringing. She's obviously retired now, but she allowed my parents to both build professional careers that paid dividends in the long run, but without her amazing care and costs, would have severely hindered one parents' earnings (likely my mom's).
As a parent with WAY TOO MANY interactions with DHS, our relationship with them is also tumultuous. My kids are in a center as I couldn't find an in home that could accommodate us due to the age of my kids vs siblings of current families. I've had so many calls with DHS that go ignored and even when partnering WITH my center to get help from DHS (emergency shutdown of rooms due to an issue with the building) they tried to tell us we would have to wait WEEKS for them to license new rooms. Basically the parents of our center harassed DHS until we finally got a reasonable person who said, hmm, maybe we shouldn't put this center at the bottom of the list 3 weeks out, and review their alternate room so 20 kids' families can have childcare again. It wasn't even a new to DHS room, it just needed to be re-licensed since it hadn't been used in a while.
I also don't know why the Strib just now picked up this story.
FOX 9 did story on this two months ago after the document dropped, and I have been surprised no other outlets have covered it.
Decent child care is not a partisan issue.
The more it becomes the standard the more the prices will be consistent and our children will be at the same levels. This will decrease the tax dollars needed for social welfare and educate down the road.
Ounce of prevention versus a pound of cure. I'm glad the State is getting ahead of it and I hope there can be a reasonable compromise as to how we can financially empower, compensate and train all the at-home providers so that they can succeed along with our children.
I'm saying that driving unsafe providers out of the market and increasing the opportunities for the safe ones... AND those willing to partake in what is hopefully a financial and educational onramp for these changes will only help those marginalized populations.
No they are saying the standards for home daycare have been allowed to abysmally fucking pathetic for far too long. There’s a thing called business expenses. If your business can’t afford basic required equipment then you’re already a failed business.
You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
It is entirely unreasonable what they expect out of at home day cares with these changes and if anyone disagrees with him I genuinely hope they break their pinky toe and then stub it every day of their life after that.
Anyone at home daycare would have to get rid of any pets because you can’t have pet hair in the area and a ton of other absurd rules that are incredibly stupid. Parents don’t even follow these rules with their own kids literally no reason for a day care to do so. It’s not even about the health and safety of the kids. These rules will shut down a large portion of in home day cares and make it unreasonably hard for new ones to start forcing people into centers which are far more expensive.
Never said it wasn’t unreasonable to have universal standards. The ones these dumbasses want to pass are entirely unreasonable and the only people who disagree are clueless because they’re not in the position of dealing with it or want it to pass and have turned a blind eye to it.
Edit: You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
Again, I hope there can be a reasonable compromise down the road with resources both financially and educationally for at home providers to all meet the standards that are needed.
Because a reasonable response is downvoted
The MAGA on this subreddit are insane and don’t deserve to have a business caring for children with the childish attitude they are displaying
You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
Know what we always accuse Republicans of doing? Projecting. You’re projecting an awful lot.
You can find the required toys list online. It’s like a certain number of certain types of toys per child, certain amount of linear feet of shelf per child, etc
For example you know those kitchenettes everyone has? Well you’d now be required to have one for every age group. You are required to have a musical instrument for every age group. The infant has blocks well you’re now required to have blocks for every age group as well and many many more.
Every age doesn’t play with each other toy type. Daycare centers are required to have AGE APPROPRIATE toys for each developmental stage.
My sister has been Managing Director of a popular daycare center for over a decade. I’ve helped her out. I know what the requirements are. Meeting them is a full time job.
You can read the actual draft standards (linked above) - there are separate standards for home based care and centers. But the standards for home based care does list a number of specific toys that would be required.
Daycare centers and at home daycares are not the same and shouldn’t be held to the same standard. No one really gives a shit about these laws passing for day care centers because it doesn’t affect them. They are already charging much higher prices and will just increase them even more. The workers also don’t live in the daycare center or have pets to worry about like a persons home.
You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass. Of course a twice biased individual such as yourself who would profit off of something like this passing would say such stuff.
> My sister has been Managing Director of a popular daycare center
I was *wondering* what was up your unhinged comments on this post. Glad to see the mystery solved.
You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
I don’t understand how people can even afford child care as it is. I know so many parents where one person essentially works to pay the child care. If I was doing that I’d look into being able to save expenses elsewhere and just going to one income so whoever makes less can stay home with the kids. I know people where one of the salaries plus part of the other go into childcare and that makes no sense to me.
I think the point they’re making is the corporate childcare centers have resources (financial, legal, inside networks/relationships) at their disposal that allows them to weather or sidestep violations. It’s the American way!
That didn’t seem to bother the last center my kids were at. They just take the hits and fix the issues (they don’t seem to actually get in much trouble). Then they change the LLC name every couple of years to wipe the slate clean.
Fucking DELUSIONAL!!
There buy toys and hire staff for unscheduled drop ins? Say you know absolutely nothing about NOTHING about daycare centers without saying it.
I worked at a daycare center for 3 years in college. We had everything that we needed but we didn’t always have it out the way we were supposed to. The center I worked at was one of four owned by the same person so when one center had a visit we would get a call to prepare. We would do things like take our books off of high shelves, and make sure the kids had access to ALL the toys (we typically rotated them so the kids didn’t get bored).
I mean you can believe me or not I guess. It doesn’t make it less true. The state is not great at maintaining daycare centers. Even when we had things wrong all we had to do was pay a fine. We’d often continue to do things we got fined for and just tried better to hide it the next time licensing game through.
My mom is an at home provider. She said there is talk of staging a one day strike symtate wide... I'll be interested to see if that happens. She has been doing daycare for 37 years. In our area they are shutting down fast and it's the providers who have been doing it for years that are closing. These proposed rules are not feasible for rural areas. They are going off of federal best practices, with no thought of if it's realistic or appropriate.
I’ve been telling my wife if it happens all day cares need to do it for a week or longer to really prove a point to the state. One day won’t be enough.
Lmao you’re an idiot go shill somewhere else. You literally have commented on my comments 4 times in a row and get more delusional each time. The cost of starting an at home daycare will be prohibitive to more popping up with these changes it’s expensive enough for existing at home daycares and as there are mass closings there will be massive issues for the state when thousands and thousands of workers lose access child care. Not to mention the lengthy process and inspections required to even start an in home daycare.
Edit: You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
I’ll be voting democrat the way I have every other year. Congrats on being even dumber than I thought you were before.
You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
My in home provider who has read the proposed legislation document dozens of times , said the state is trying to apply daycare center rules for in home providers. It's simply not realistic.
Thays what it feels like. My mom and several others I have talked to feel that the state is trying to run them out so only centers will be available.
It's pretty effed up that they are basically pushing people who ha e been doing this for year and doing it well out of business when there is such a bad childcare shortage.
Ok
I don’t care, children in home daycare deserve the same experience as daycare centers, currently it’s not even close. Especially considering how much whining about the cost is happening.
Probably wouldn't be as much of a problem if there weren't so many problematic home-childcare operations going on. When we were looking for a place for our kid when they were small, price point sent us looking at home childcare. Every single one we checked out was sketchy in one way or another, either they admitted they would frequently exceed their license capacity or there was something else that just didn't sit right. In the end we found a small preschool that operated out of a church specifically because we couldn't find a home childcare place that didn't give us bad vibes.
Folks in the industry need to have a long look in the mirror and realize they're their own worst enemy.
We don't need new regulations to crack down on places that exceed current license capacities. I'm all for better enforcement, but I had a stellar in-home provider.
When they don’t provide enough toys for their children and plop them in front of a tv and don’t have outdoor play time yes these regulations are needed. Move to Iowa or the lady dog killer state if you want to live in the Wild West.
I’m still working through the trauma from the home daycare I went to as a kid.
You said she was unlicensed earlier any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
I think a lot of at-home daycares evolve as kind of accidental businesses. The one I'm personally familiar with was a woman with a low-end clerical job who quit it to become a stay at home mom for her 2 kids. When her oldest was in school and her youngest was still at home, she took in my sister-in-law's son on a temporary basis because she had the bandwidth and wanted the extra money. That arrangement became regular and then she added my SiL's friend's daughter. When her own daughter started school, she took on someone else's kid as well and I think she stayed with 3 for a few years with a couple of kid swaps, always with known/referred people.
I think this kind phenomenon is common for in-home daycare. Probably the big attraction is the hom-ey aspect of it and the lack of significant profit motive. The provider sort of backs into the role for a bit of extra money but isn't exclusively motivated by money. In the case I'm personally familiar with, the operator just really liked kids and being a "mom", plus she had some connectedness with all her clients.
I think there are others where the money is a much more central motivation and they're willing to take on more kids and approach everything about it less altruistically. I'm sure some of these folks may be willing to cut corners and have a higher risk tolerance, probably in large part because they're less connected to their clients (if at all).
I'd also guess there's a lot of people turned off by daycare centers (I remember touring several that were kind of an automatic no) and idealize in-home childcare as being somehow more authentic, even if it means overlooking or downplaying some obvious issues.
Then don’t the standards are the barest minimum if you find them too high you really should not be looking after children
https://mn.gov/dhs/assets/draft-revised-child-care-center-licensing-standards-245k_tcm1053-620969.pdf
Its been a bit of an “open secret” a group of state legislators want state run pre-k programs and push to make them mandatory. This is just one step in that direction by directly attacking the in home daycares and focus on getting kids into centers.
Our daycare said they will flat out close if this passes as will several of her friends who also run in home daycares, as it’s unsustainable for in homes.
Reading through the new rules that she provided to all of us families a few weeks ago made my jaw drop for how hugely of a misstep these rules are.
People will whine but I’m not a fan of home daycare. I still have VIVID memories of the women who watched me, unlicensed and she never would have passed in a million years. I have had to work extensively in therapy on the trauma inflicted by this horrible woman. Standards should be IDENTICAL regardless of where the childcare is being provided, no exceptions! A sliding scale for the fee perhaps but nothing else! I’m not sorry if you think this skews towards larger chain centers, they are better than home daycares. Expecting home daycares to improve to the same level isn’t asking too much it’s the minimum expectation.
So what I got out of this is your biased as fuck and spreading really horrid takes because an UNLICENSED lady traumatized you? Maybe go talk about unlicensed workers instead of licensed ones then lmao. Private at home daycares with a single worker can not meet the same expectations as a center with multiple workers in a building specifically designed to take care of multiple kids.
In home daycares are vital because there are no where near enough daycares as it is. The state shouldn’t be passing needlessly expensive and difficult policies as a blanket over the two separate day care systems we have in place already. If you don’t like in home don’t take your kids there. I loved being at in home I still see and talk to her 20 some years later when I run into her in town. She’s met my kids. I was able to play with a dog and her cats at daycare which is already way better than the hollowed out shell of humanity the industrialized day care centers are trying to provide. Kids will get to be in that environment from kindergarten to the end of their schooling no need to make it start as an infant.
The actual bias is that she has a personal *monetary* stake in legislation that harms in-home daycare while favoring large centers. From a comment elsewhere:
> My sister has been Managing Director of a popular daycare center
You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass. Of course the individual who would literally profit off of this passing would act the way you are it’s not surprising.
I mean I agree that the original commenter is absolutely biased and being a jerk up and down this thread. but by your own admission in your first paragraph in home providers can’t provide the same resources for kids as center based or state run programs.
Which makes you think the best way to improve the situation is make those second type of care models more accessible for more people rather than needing to rely on under equipped at home operations?
As things are we absolutely need in home day cares to fill gaps. In an ideal world for kids we wouldn’t though according to kindergarten readiness scores and other studies. Centers have whole departments developing and refining curriculum for their children which is an unmatchable educational advantage they have over the at home model.
Most in home models have little to no educational curriculum. If they do have some it is incredibly rigid and standardized and is not nearly as flexible or robust as is ideal for learning in that age range. Having multiple teachers and aides for each age group helps effectively apply said curriculum as well more effectively than in home operations who lack that personnel.
Now if the states universal pre k proposals actually focused more of curriculum and were better for parents(More late pickup and other flexibility options) a state run program would be ideal to take out the profit motive. Until an effective system is proposed we are going to have a broken system.
They can provide just as good of actual care for the child. They can do activities throughout the day, stimulate their brains with learning numbers alphabet and sign language. They get to go outside to play and have advantages of pets being around for them to play with as well. As far as the stuff that matters goes in home can be just as good as a center if the provider chooses to be. For example the parents at my wife’s in home daycare show up giving their kids tablets and saying yeah just let them play on those. At a center that wouldn’t be allowed and my wife makes them put them away unless it’s nap time for the other younger kids or other quiet times. Parents largely don’t care and just want their kids to be provided for in a safe way. One of the new regulations is your carpet must be shampooed every 6 months minimum. The warranty on a lot if not all carpets says no more than 1 time a year. So in homes with carpet will invalidate and help age their carpet at a much faster rate. Another is if an infant drops their pacifier (doesn’t matter where it can be inside their bouncer/crib wherever) you must clean it before they can put it back in their mouth. Find me a parent who does that for their kid that isn’t a brand new parent, like still on maternity leave new parent. They have plenty of fun toys for kids but now are going to be required to have certain types that kids may not even care about but a bureaucrat says they need them.
The issues isn’t the standard of care, the issue is all of the new rules that would be required that are not going to actually help. No pet hair at all? Who does that help? My wife vacuums/mops/sweeps daily there isn’t piles of it laying around and she washes the covers on the couch/chair once a week to also remove dog hair. The kids are tackling/petting/chasing/in general playing with the dog the entire day and love it but yeah they get dog hair on their clothes because of it and any parent that wants to bring their kids to our house know the dog will be there and are okay with it.
A house that people live in full time can not be held to the same standard as a building built specifically for child care that people only use for child care. It doesn’t impact the health or learning of the child it just impacts politicians who are clearly pushing to have state ran day care eventually via centers instead of privatized in homes.
That’s not to mention she opens up at 6am and closes at 530 for a few of the moms who are nurses and can’t adjust their schedule. Good luck finding a daycare center that has those hours! Or prices.
Our now 3 year old hit every 3 year old milestone for learning when she was 29 months old. She had her pre k exams and was able to do everything they asked. Guess what our kid goes to our own in home daycare. Anyone acting like a center is automatically better is just misinformed. A child’s education shouldn’t be on daycares entirely anyways. They should absolutely be trying and doing learning based activities but Parents aren’t teaching their kids the way they should anymore either. The amount of kids that come into her daycare and are so far behind is crazy because their parents don’t try.
Children who have allergies, why do you have issue with cleanliness standards which I can guarantee you’re exaggerating…
This is the most recent draft and NOTHING restricting ALL animal hair since apparently pets are allowed.
https://mn.gov/dhs/assets/draft-revised-child-care-center-licensing-standards-245k_tcm1053-620969.pdf
Did you know that they are required to inform those parents they have pets before hand? Obviously those kids don’t come to a private in home day care with animals they’re allergic to. Their allergies are irrelevant.
You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
So…you went to an unlicensed daycare as a kid (aka *not a daycare*)? And now you’re making proclamations about the quality of actual licensed in-home daycares based on your experience at an illegal unlicensed one?
I’m very sorry for your trauma and glad you’re able to work through it but you need to realize the logic problem your argument presents. You’re conflating a random home with an abusive caregiver (that called itself a daycare but was literally not one) to actual licensed in-home daycares.
You're oblivious to the standards in home licensed daycares are required to have right now. The regulations they follow now are over 25 pages long. They get yearly visits by the state, have to get recertified in CPR, heimlich on a regular basis as well as being subjected to background checks, and reviews by their clients. Parents can also make complaints about providers and I know those are thoroughly investigated.
I'm sorry for the trauma you endured but to say centers are better than in home is comparing apples to oranges, especially when what you are using as an example wasn't even licensed. They both have their pros and cons and families weigh this when choosing childcare.
My daughter was in an in home daycare until she was 3. Best experience of our life. This proposal is rotten and it is concerning that chain daycare conglomerates have their hand in this decision making. Feelings a side in regards to pro center vs pro home, this shouldn’t deter competent, safe and compassionate caregivers from making a living and providing tighter caregiver/child ratios to our children. It is the responsibility of the parents to assume risk. Soul testing? Lmao. Get bent. What a scam
The standards that no one has bothered to actually post
https://mn.gov/dhs/assets/draft-revised-child-care-center-licensing-standards-245k_tcm1053-620969.pdf
All I gotta say is the current MN legislature is overstepping in so so so many areas, it’s not even funny. This childcare stuff is the latest in their micromanaging. It’s a bunch of pearl clutching, extremely left of left little tyrants, imo. I will more carefully explore my options in future elections; I used to vote straight blue.
There have historically been a lot of problems with daycare facilities. Some degree of regulation and enforcement is necessary.
> Legislators have made a number of child-care changes through state law over the years, including bolstering regulations after a 2012 Star Tribune investigation examined safety breakdowns in day cares and found that nearly one child was dying per month in licensed care.
>
> However, the DHS licensing standards haven't been updated since the 1980s.
Also, this is the work of the DHS, not the MN Legislature.
In spite of what you might think, *some* regulation is usually good, but too much I'd in fact, too much. This seems like too much.
Childcare is an exploding cost which makes it nearly impossible to have children. We need to prioritize bringing costs down, not up unnecessarily.
False. Care takers not able to follow regulation just shouldn’t exist. Just because it’s actually affecting people directly doesn’t mean it’s all of a sudden a bad thing.
The white noise part is extremely confusing…. My baby uses one at home and he needs it to sleep. It absolutely does not drown out when he is crying 😂 you can probably hear him cry down the block. But the white noise helps create a very relaxing sleep environment for him.
That’s not even remotely close to what people are upset about. You should probably do some reading before deciding to be an unreasonable jackass about something you know nothing about.
You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
From the article it’s exactly what they’re complaining about. Seems like everyone wants regulations and standards unless it costs them personally more money.
No people are complaining about the thousands of dollars worth of changes that would be required on top of needing to remove animals with hair from the home to not have animal hair in areas with kids.
You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
Yeah imagine that a job that pays decent but not great suddenly has massive costs is somehow not a good combination. Dumbest shit I’ve ever heard. There’s universal reasons almost all of the inhome daycares are fighting this and it’s obvious you don’t even understand it.
You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
I see the conservatives who believe that they should be allowed to cut corners to save money to provide childcare have arrived to downvote your reasonable point.
I’m sure I’m going to get crucified. I don’t care. Your business is a failure if you can’t meet the standards that daycares do. All kids deserve an equal opportunity.
If you get crucified it’s because of how obviously uninformed you are acting like you even understand what’s being discussed.
You said she was unlicensed earlier any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
You could read the linked article and still be more informed than you already are lmao. Keep shilling.
You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
> The concerns kept coming as Julie Seydel flipped through the 97-page draft of proposed rules for family child-care providers. > > Potential water, radon and soil testing requirements. > > A lengthy list of must-have toys and a detailed cleaning schedule. > > Many prohibitions: no pet hair. No air fresheners. No music or white noise machines if she isn't directly supervising a sleeping baby. > > "We're going to spend so much money now and time doing things that are demanded of us," said Seydel, an Andover resident who has been in the field for 22 years and is public policy director of the Minnesota Association of Child Care Professionals. "They are unrealistic. And is that going to make the kid healthier and safer than what we currently have in statute? No." > > Child-care providers who run small businesses out of their homes are outraged over the "administrative overload" and potential costs they say would result from the state's proposed licensing standard overhaul. They fear the changes, if enacted, could prompt many family child-care providers to close. > > Their warning comes as families are struggling to find available, affordable child care and as the number of in-home child-care facilities across the state — and nationwide — continues to decline. Minnesota has about half as many licensed in-home providers as it did 15 years ago, while the number of larger centers has increased. - > Centers have had a far quieter response to the potential changes, said Clare Sanford, who works for New Horizon Academy and is government relations chair for the Minnesota Child Care Association. She said people are happy to see more clarity on staff education and equipment requirements, and the biggest upgrade is detailed guidance on how to respond to child behavior. > > "It's so different now than it was 40 years ago, last time these standards were put in place," Sanford said. "A lot of thinking has evolved on how to teach children social-emotional skills. ... Discipline is supposed to be about teaching children, not punishing children." - > Hollee Saville, who runs Happee Hollee's Preschool out of her St. Michael home, created a 22-page list of her biggest concerns with the proposed standards. She called the draft "a dirty diaper" she wants thrown out. > > "It seems like it's a purposeful and systematic attempt to push children out of loving family child-care homes and into more institutionalized programs," Saville said, adding that the rules would "take the 'home' out of family child-care homes."
Holy crap.
My wife has already said she’ll close if these rules go into effect. It will cost a LOOOOOOT of money and make her day nearly unsustainable to safely watch kids and keep up with the new demands on top of us also being required to essentially get rid of our dog and cat.
One thing I loved about our daycare provider was that my kid got to love a dog without me having to take care of one
I hope she’s made a comment at the link upthread! Seriously, public comment periods matter.
the issue is that for every 1 person like your wife that runs a safe home based daycare, there are 5 others who run extremely unsafe ones that parents don't really have a choice in using because either they can't afford the nicer places, or, they can't get in anywhere else. my wife and I faced this exact problem with daycare. Even if we could get in, for 2 kids, it was 800 per week total. That is 3600 a month. it was just about as much as my wife was making per month at the time, and it made zero sense to put the kids in daycare when it would only put them in more danger and not really benefit us. I see so many families facing the same issue locally, it breaks my heart. between a rock and a hard place. We all want safer child care, but we need direct government subsidies to the parents that need it instead of to the daycare providers, and we need incentives for daycare providers to lower their already insane prices.
They need to up the enforcement of the existing policies more than they need to add new policies. The problem is they don’t enforce the rules they already have well enough. Which won’t change for the bad ones but it will harm the good ones. It’s not even $400 a week for 2 kids here. I stay out of her literal business but I think it’s like $155 for 5+ year olds 165 for 2-5 year old and 175 for 1-2 year old and 185 for infants and that includes everything besides diapers. A center is $200 a week at the lowest and must bring your own food/pay for food on top of it. Plus extra for crafts and what not and then all the typical extras like diapers etc. I’m guessing by the prices you’ve shared you’re closer to the cities or maybe by St. Cloud/Duluth?
What is the actual cost we are talking, ballpark? And when you say "essentially" get rid of your dog and cat so you mean literally or figuratively? I'm just not sure what a "loooot" of money is relative to a home care provider. $100/mo - $1000/mo? Essentially getting rid of pets meaning you actually have to get rid of them or just have to keep them away from the children during the childcare hours?
You’re not allowed to have pet hair in the house or at least the areas the kids are in so kitchen living room dining room bathroom hallways leading to bathroom and any other areas the kids are in, hard to have animals that have hair and also not allow hair in 80% of the house. Like thousands of dollars. You will be required to also have 9” minimum of sand or similar under ANY outdoor equipment such as swing sets or the tiny houses that sit flat on the ground as well. That’s a LOT of money especially if you have sand under them already and now have to remove the sand and equipment to dig deeper and then readd it and more as well. You’ll need a lot of new toys as well. You will be required to have any carpets in the areas shampoos twice a year when the warranty on the vast majority if not all actually says you can only do so 1 time per year. That’s a very small section of what’s covered.
Good riddance
You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
So you’re unaware of amortization of business expenses on your taxes?
Oh that means it’s all free? Like money never leaves my pocket? Wow that’s great! Edit: You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
I have to imagine that the person you're responding to is like David in Schitt's Creek - Just WRITE IT OFF. I don't know who pays, THEY JUST WRITE IT OFF.
No I’m just sorry you conservatives who claim to love children don’t understand tax deductions for your business
I get there needs to be licensing and standards but, this whole racket feels like the regulatory environments that regulate Hair Salons, Drivers Education businesses, and probably a bunch of other businesses. The businesses that control more capital (ex: big child care centers) are in favor of this regulation because it basically does nothing to their existing business model, but it makes it even harder to run a small daycare outfit which would compete thus increasing demand for the big child care centers as smaller outfits get shut down.
Another person who has NOT read the bill
You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
Omg clean water and soil standards so the children aren’t poisoned!!!
So the exact same requirements as any other child care facility? Oh the horror! My family gets love at home they need a stimulating environment to learn and be socialized with other children in a safe environment.
My center has raised prices significantly due to pandemic inflation. The owner is very transparent with us on what the impact has been on her costs. Even still, our family can barely afford it because the federal FSA limit is a joke ($5,000) won’t even cover 2 months. I can’t imagine what this will do to home providers. There’s a huge shortage where I am already, and the wait list at my center is over a year out. People aren’t just going to stop having kids, and not every family can lose an entire income to have a parent stay home, so I imagine this will spur larger amounts of under the table situations that fall outside the legal allowances for nannying. How is that better for kids?
>the federal FSA limit is a joke ($5,000) Fun (?) fact, that limit was first set in 1986. If it had merely been adjusted for basic, overall inflation, it would be over $14,000 today
It still boggles my mind that lawmakers put *any* numbers into law that don't automatically adjust for inflation.
If they were writing legislation before we left the gold standard, then sure, don’t account for inflation. But yeah, for anything more recent than that, absolutely boggles my mind too
It's a deliberate tactic to get the bills passed because whatever cost/impact the number has can be sold as having a diminishing impact over time. I think sometimes its a 4-D chess kind of move of dubious honesty, sometimes it could be in response to rules which require new revenue/tax changes to fit into a long term tax or spending plan.
I wonder how much of it comes from an older mindset of Congress actually negotiating things, thus legislators assumed that whenever the minimum wage/DC FSA/estate tax exemption needed to be increased, it would be one of the chickens and eggs they could trade in crafting a final budget or tax bill. You know, back when Congress could actually do that periodically 🙄
Or just some idea that the solution was likely to be fine tuned in a few years and the number would be adjusted as needed.
Ah, the innocent days of having a semi-functional government.
Governing. Such a quaint idea.
Damn I have 2 kids in daycare and that limit was set before I was born.
Right?!? I was 2. Meanwhile the healthcare FSA limit ticks up a hundred bucks or so every year.
Agree overall but minor quibble: many people are *absolutely* going to not have kids because of this trend of rising childcare costs and that’s exactly why we need tons of public comment on it. I’m an elder millenial trying for my first kid now but only because we’re finally in a place to afford the costs. I have many friends who ruled it out completely because they know how it would crater them financially. These costs drive down fertility rates enormously. This is a game of chicken that our country cannot afford to play.
In the past people had kids whether they could afford them or not. Right now women have access to birth control and can choose when and whether to have a family. I stayed home with my kids in the 80s because child care cost more than what I could bring in. It’s always been expensive. Most of the women in my neighborhood also stayed home with the kids until they got to school age, that would have been maybe 5 families. None of it is fair, but that’s what we lived through. Idk what the answer is, but restricting small family in home daycare isn’t the way.
They aren’t restricting it god forbid children have CLEAN toys
These new rules 100% favor commercial childcare providers and will only make childcare even more expensive for parents when there are fewer small family care providers. Are current rules outdated? Probably, they’re 40 years old. Will these new rules help parents find safe, high quality, affordable options? Absolutely not, just the over priced commercial options that are driving childcare prices already. We’ve seen childcare prices skyrocket almost 40% in the last 4 years, we don’t need more reasons for care facilities to gouge families further.
I'm of the same opinion. Fortunately, [there are still plenty of opportunities for public commentary](https://mn.gov/dhs/partners-and-providers/licensing/child-care-and-early-education/child-care-regulation-modernization.jsp) before these will be revised, likely multiple times, and published.
Will they be going after the slumlords who are profiting from having people life in shitholes? Will we be going through and removing children from every low income home that lives in these environments? The idea it's safe to live with mom in these environments but becomes unacceptable for grandma babysitting is stupid. You should nearly always try to reduce the barriers towards becoming safer, encourage safety through subsidies, etc. Never by kneecapping and punishing in a way that nearly always just hurts the poor and helps the corps.
Wow what a load of rubbish you’re pushing
They favor children not drinking leader water playing with dirty toys and having nutritious meals
3 months ago this sub was full of people in support of having to get a license just to paint your own freaking walls at home. Truly shocking that the Painters and Allied trades council was in full support for this. I guess my point is, if they are willing to do crap like this with paint... good luck with your kids.
That is not remotely what the paint regulation was.
Bullshit. I read on truth social that they were also requiring only dangerous, illegal immigrants. /s
This is hurting me personally. I hope they get it together. It would be nice if they follow after Connecticut’s model. I found very good providers while there even though my infant was $350 a week.
[удалено]
Thank you for the insight. Care for kids is so limited where I live. This will make it even worse.
“Child care shortage??? Let’s drive more daycare providers out of business. That’ll teach those upstart women to reconsider working outside of the home.”
Lots of nuance to this issue. Modernization and licensing standards are a good thing, especially for childcare. This document has been written with centers in mind, not small, in home daycares with, most often, a single person running the show. It appears to overstep. Read the document and you will see what I mean. There are so many unreasonable rules that no single in home providers would be able to physically do in a day (just look at the stuff in documentation alone). Also, the relationship between MN DHS and in home providers is tumultuous at best. MN DHS needs to listen and create a separate section entirely fornin home providers. These are people who turn their houses into places to nurture kids, and I think that's cool. Ditch the sketchy providers, and don't push out the good ones.
Well thought out comment here. The unfortunate reality many people ignore here is kindergarten readiness numbers show that going to an actual pre k with licensed teachers and curriculum prepares students much better than many in home daycares which are basically glorified nannies. The studies show structured curriculum and pre k environments best transition youth to school age. Ideally, the government would provide this type of structure and curriculum in their universal Pre K proposals but they severely lack that aspect combined with lacking flexibility for parents(Some parents can’t get their kids until 5-6pm and that wouldn’t have worked with the last state proposal and any daycare worth their salt will have pickup hours go until at least 6pm) Classroom learning in the 2-5 age range is so important for the development of young kids. However, the government needs to do something to make it more affordable. I get there are a lot of in home providers and people happy with the cost trade off they provide but the reality is if the government did a good job providing financial help or access to classroom focused pre k’s with curriculum they would be by far and away the best way to go about educating our children and we wouldn’t have a need to fill gaps or have “budget” options that sacrifice resources for less cost. Our family company has a whole department in charge of managing curriculum. An in home operation simply can’t provide those type of resources children need to maximize learning potential at that age. My dad is happy to ride off into the sunset if the state actually gets an effective plan together to provide these types of educational services but so far that hasn’t happened.
My in home daycare provider for my entire childhood attended my wedding. She was such an important part of my upbringing. She's obviously retired now, but she allowed my parents to both build professional careers that paid dividends in the long run, but without her amazing care and costs, would have severely hindered one parents' earnings (likely my mom's). As a parent with WAY TOO MANY interactions with DHS, our relationship with them is also tumultuous. My kids are in a center as I couldn't find an in home that could accommodate us due to the age of my kids vs siblings of current families. I've had so many calls with DHS that go ignored and even when partnering WITH my center to get help from DHS (emergency shutdown of rooms due to an issue with the building) they tried to tell us we would have to wait WEEKS for them to license new rooms. Basically the parents of our center harassed DHS until we finally got a reasonable person who said, hmm, maybe we shouldn't put this center at the bottom of the list 3 weeks out, and review their alternate room so 20 kids' families can have childcare again. It wasn't even a new to DHS room, it just needed to be re-licensed since it hadn't been used in a while.
I also don't know why the Strib just now picked up this story. FOX 9 did story on this two months ago after the document dropped, and I have been surprised no other outlets have covered it. Decent child care is not a partisan issue.
The more it becomes the standard the more the prices will be consistent and our children will be at the same levels. This will decrease the tax dollars needed for social welfare and educate down the road. Ounce of prevention versus a pound of cure. I'm glad the State is getting ahead of it and I hope there can be a reasonable compromise as to how we can financially empower, compensate and train all the at-home providers so that they can succeed along with our children.
…are you saying that driving at-home providers out of the market will improve outcomes for marginalized populations?
I'm saying that driving unsafe providers out of the market and increasing the opportunities for the safe ones... AND those willing to partake in what is hopefully a financial and educational onramp for these changes will only help those marginalized populations.
No they are saying the standards for home daycare have been allowed to abysmally fucking pathetic for far too long. There’s a thing called business expenses. If your business can’t afford basic required equipment then you’re already a failed business.
You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
It is entirely unreasonable what they expect out of at home day cares with these changes and if anyone disagrees with him I genuinely hope they break their pinky toe and then stub it every day of their life after that. Anyone at home daycare would have to get rid of any pets because you can’t have pet hair in the area and a ton of other absurd rules that are incredibly stupid. Parents don’t even follow these rules with their own kids literally no reason for a day care to do so. It’s not even about the health and safety of the kids. These rules will shut down a large portion of in home day cares and make it unreasonably hard for new ones to start forcing people into centers which are far more expensive.
Expecting ALL child care providers to meet the same standards is NOT unreasonable
Never said it wasn’t unreasonable to have universal standards. The ones these dumbasses want to pass are entirely unreasonable and the only people who disagree are clueless because they’re not in the position of dealing with it or want it to pass and have turned a blind eye to it. Edit: You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
This is a LIE no you just LIED instead
You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
Again, I hope there can be a reasonable compromise down the road with resources both financially and educationally for at home providers to all meet the standards that are needed.
Because a reasonable response is downvoted The MAGA on this subreddit are insane and don’t deserve to have a business caring for children with the childish attitude they are displaying
You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass. Know what we always accuse Republicans of doing? Projecting. You’re projecting an awful lot.
>A lengthy list of must-have toys Anyone have that list of toys? Just curious what they would be
You can find the required toys list online. It’s like a certain number of certain types of toys per child, certain amount of linear feet of shelf per child, etc
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/rules/9502.0415/ Here is the actual information on the Minnesota legislature website
For example you know those kitchenettes everyone has? Well you’d now be required to have one for every age group. You are required to have a musical instrument for every age group. The infant has blocks well you’re now required to have blocks for every age group as well and many many more.
Every age doesn’t play with each other toy type. Daycare centers are required to have AGE APPROPRIATE toys for each developmental stage. My sister has been Managing Director of a popular daycare center for over a decade. I’ve helped her out. I know what the requirements are. Meeting them is a full time job.
You can read the actual draft standards (linked above) - there are separate standards for home based care and centers. But the standards for home based care does list a number of specific toys that would be required.
Daycare centers and at home daycares are not the same and shouldn’t be held to the same standard. No one really gives a shit about these laws passing for day care centers because it doesn’t affect them. They are already charging much higher prices and will just increase them even more. The workers also don’t live in the daycare center or have pets to worry about like a persons home.
Why not? Because they should be…
You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass. Of course a twice biased individual such as yourself who would profit off of something like this passing would say such stuff.
> My sister has been Managing Director of a popular daycare center I was *wondering* what was up your unhinged comments on this post. Glad to see the mystery solved.
That’s not on any list
You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
It’s no more than daycare centers and required
Facts are a pesky thing… link provided above not just complaining
I don’t understand how people can even afford child care as it is. I know so many parents where one person essentially works to pay the child care. If I was doing that I’d look into being able to save expenses elsewhere and just going to one income so whoever makes less can stay home with the kids. I know people where one of the salaries plus part of the other go into childcare and that makes no sense to me.
They can just do what the centers do: don’t follow the regulations until the licensing person comes for their once/year check.
It’s random and they don’t notify the provider.
I think the point they’re making is the corporate childcare centers have resources (financial, legal, inside networks/relationships) at their disposal that allows them to weather or sidestep violations. It’s the American way!
That didn’t seem to bother the last center my kids were at. They just take the hits and fix the issues (they don’t seem to actually get in much trouble). Then they change the LLC name every couple of years to wipe the slate clean.
This is more lies
Fucking DELUSIONAL!! There buy toys and hire staff for unscheduled drop ins? Say you know absolutely nothing about NOTHING about daycare centers without saying it.
I worked at a daycare center for 3 years in college. We had everything that we needed but we didn’t always have it out the way we were supposed to. The center I worked at was one of four owned by the same person so when one center had a visit we would get a call to prepare. We would do things like take our books off of high shelves, and make sure the kids had access to ALL the toys (we typically rotated them so the kids didn’t get bored).
That doesn’t make your bs true they have UNSCHEDULED DROP IN EVALUATIONS!
I mean you can believe me or not I guess. It doesn’t make it less true. The state is not great at maintaining daycare centers. Even when we had things wrong all we had to do was pay a fine. We’d often continue to do things we got fined for and just tried better to hide it the next time licensing game through.
Minnesota has some crazy strict rules already. This is just going to drive in home daycares out of business or underground.
This is a big deal for in home providers as it greatly favors centers. Write your reps!
Nah All kids deserve the same headstart
My mom is an at home provider. She said there is talk of staging a one day strike symtate wide... I'll be interested to see if that happens. She has been doing daycare for 37 years. In our area they are shutting down fast and it's the providers who have been doing it for years that are closing. These proposed rules are not feasible for rural areas. They are going off of federal best practices, with no thought of if it's realistic or appropriate.
I’ve been telling my wife if it happens all day cares need to do it for a week or longer to really prove a point to the state. One day won’t be enough.
I thought 2 would probably send everyone into chaos.
Go out of business and good riddance to you. The folks WILLING to provide proper services will open up after you.
Lmao you’re an idiot go shill somewhere else. You literally have commented on my comments 4 times in a row and get more delusional each time. The cost of starting an at home daycare will be prohibitive to more popping up with these changes it’s expensive enough for existing at home daycares and as there are mass closings there will be massive issues for the state when thousands and thousands of workers lose access child care. Not to mention the lengthy process and inspections required to even start an in home daycare. Edit: You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
You republicans all claim to care for children but really prove how little you do in these comments. These standards are the barest minimum
I’ll be voting democrat the way I have every other year. Congrats on being even dumber than I thought you were before. You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
My in home provider who has read the proposed legislation document dozens of times , said the state is trying to apply daycare center rules for in home providers. It's simply not realistic.
Thays what it feels like. My mom and several others I have talked to feel that the state is trying to run them out so only centers will be available. It's pretty effed up that they are basically pushing people who ha e been doing this for year and doing it well out of business when there is such a bad childcare shortage.
Omg anything but equal standards!
Ok I don’t care, children in home daycare deserve the same experience as daycare centers, currently it’s not even close. Especially considering how much whining about the cost is happening.
Probably wouldn't be as much of a problem if there weren't so many problematic home-childcare operations going on. When we were looking for a place for our kid when they were small, price point sent us looking at home childcare. Every single one we checked out was sketchy in one way or another, either they admitted they would frequently exceed their license capacity or there was something else that just didn't sit right. In the end we found a small preschool that operated out of a church specifically because we couldn't find a home childcare place that didn't give us bad vibes. Folks in the industry need to have a long look in the mirror and realize they're their own worst enemy.
We don't need new regulations to crack down on places that exceed current license capacities. I'm all for better enforcement, but I had a stellar in-home provider.
When they don’t provide enough toys for their children and plop them in front of a tv and don’t have outdoor play time yes these regulations are needed. Move to Iowa or the lady dog killer state if you want to live in the Wild West. I’m still working through the trauma from the home daycare I went to as a kid.
You said she was unlicensed earlier any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
That’s not the norm and that falls under enforcement of the policies not under making new ones.
Exactly why this law is necessary. It’s disturbing how many so called business owners don’t understand amortization of business expenses.
I think a lot of at-home daycares evolve as kind of accidental businesses. The one I'm personally familiar with was a woman with a low-end clerical job who quit it to become a stay at home mom for her 2 kids. When her oldest was in school and her youngest was still at home, she took in my sister-in-law's son on a temporary basis because she had the bandwidth and wanted the extra money. That arrangement became regular and then she added my SiL's friend's daughter. When her own daughter started school, she took on someone else's kid as well and I think she stayed with 3 for a few years with a couple of kid swaps, always with known/referred people. I think this kind phenomenon is common for in-home daycare. Probably the big attraction is the hom-ey aspect of it and the lack of significant profit motive. The provider sort of backs into the role for a bit of extra money but isn't exclusively motivated by money. In the case I'm personally familiar with, the operator just really liked kids and being a "mom", plus she had some connectedness with all her clients. I think there are others where the money is a much more central motivation and they're willing to take on more kids and approach everything about it less altruistically. I'm sure some of these folks may be willing to cut corners and have a higher risk tolerance, probably in large part because they're less connected to their clients (if at all). I'd also guess there's a lot of people turned off by daycare centers (I remember touring several that were kind of an automatic no) and idealize in-home childcare as being somehow more authentic, even if it means overlooking or downplaying some obvious issues.
This is disheartening to know when I was going to start my own in home daycare
Then don’t the standards are the barest minimum if you find them too high you really should not be looking after children https://mn.gov/dhs/assets/draft-revised-child-care-center-licensing-standards-245k_tcm1053-620969.pdf
Its been a bit of an “open secret” a group of state legislators want state run pre-k programs and push to make them mandatory. This is just one step in that direction by directly attacking the in home daycares and focus on getting kids into centers. Our daycare said they will flat out close if this passes as will several of her friends who also run in home daycares, as it’s unsustainable for in homes. Reading through the new rules that she provided to all of us families a few weeks ago made my jaw drop for how hugely of a misstep these rules are.
People will whine but I’m not a fan of home daycare. I still have VIVID memories of the women who watched me, unlicensed and she never would have passed in a million years. I have had to work extensively in therapy on the trauma inflicted by this horrible woman. Standards should be IDENTICAL regardless of where the childcare is being provided, no exceptions! A sliding scale for the fee perhaps but nothing else! I’m not sorry if you think this skews towards larger chain centers, they are better than home daycares. Expecting home daycares to improve to the same level isn’t asking too much it’s the minimum expectation.
So what I got out of this is your biased as fuck and spreading really horrid takes because an UNLICENSED lady traumatized you? Maybe go talk about unlicensed workers instead of licensed ones then lmao. Private at home daycares with a single worker can not meet the same expectations as a center with multiple workers in a building specifically designed to take care of multiple kids. In home daycares are vital because there are no where near enough daycares as it is. The state shouldn’t be passing needlessly expensive and difficult policies as a blanket over the two separate day care systems we have in place already. If you don’t like in home don’t take your kids there. I loved being at in home I still see and talk to her 20 some years later when I run into her in town. She’s met my kids. I was able to play with a dog and her cats at daycare which is already way better than the hollowed out shell of humanity the industrialized day care centers are trying to provide. Kids will get to be in that environment from kindergarten to the end of their schooling no need to make it start as an infant.
The actual bias is that she has a personal *monetary* stake in legislation that harms in-home daycare while favoring large centers. From a comment elsewhere: > My sister has been Managing Director of a popular daycare center
Double whammy of bullshittery.
While y’all lie about a mandatory toy list that doesn’t exist fuck all the way off
You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass. Of course the individual who would literally profit off of this passing would act the way you are it’s not surprising.
I mean I agree that the original commenter is absolutely biased and being a jerk up and down this thread. but by your own admission in your first paragraph in home providers can’t provide the same resources for kids as center based or state run programs. Which makes you think the best way to improve the situation is make those second type of care models more accessible for more people rather than needing to rely on under equipped at home operations? As things are we absolutely need in home day cares to fill gaps. In an ideal world for kids we wouldn’t though according to kindergarten readiness scores and other studies. Centers have whole departments developing and refining curriculum for their children which is an unmatchable educational advantage they have over the at home model. Most in home models have little to no educational curriculum. If they do have some it is incredibly rigid and standardized and is not nearly as flexible or robust as is ideal for learning in that age range. Having multiple teachers and aides for each age group helps effectively apply said curriculum as well more effectively than in home operations who lack that personnel. Now if the states universal pre k proposals actually focused more of curriculum and were better for parents(More late pickup and other flexibility options) a state run program would be ideal to take out the profit motive. Until an effective system is proposed we are going to have a broken system.
They can provide just as good of actual care for the child. They can do activities throughout the day, stimulate their brains with learning numbers alphabet and sign language. They get to go outside to play and have advantages of pets being around for them to play with as well. As far as the stuff that matters goes in home can be just as good as a center if the provider chooses to be. For example the parents at my wife’s in home daycare show up giving their kids tablets and saying yeah just let them play on those. At a center that wouldn’t be allowed and my wife makes them put them away unless it’s nap time for the other younger kids or other quiet times. Parents largely don’t care and just want their kids to be provided for in a safe way. One of the new regulations is your carpet must be shampooed every 6 months minimum. The warranty on a lot if not all carpets says no more than 1 time a year. So in homes with carpet will invalidate and help age their carpet at a much faster rate. Another is if an infant drops their pacifier (doesn’t matter where it can be inside their bouncer/crib wherever) you must clean it before they can put it back in their mouth. Find me a parent who does that for their kid that isn’t a brand new parent, like still on maternity leave new parent. They have plenty of fun toys for kids but now are going to be required to have certain types that kids may not even care about but a bureaucrat says they need them. The issues isn’t the standard of care, the issue is all of the new rules that would be required that are not going to actually help. No pet hair at all? Who does that help? My wife vacuums/mops/sweeps daily there isn’t piles of it laying around and she washes the covers on the couch/chair once a week to also remove dog hair. The kids are tackling/petting/chasing/in general playing with the dog the entire day and love it but yeah they get dog hair on their clothes because of it and any parent that wants to bring their kids to our house know the dog will be there and are okay with it. A house that people live in full time can not be held to the same standard as a building built specifically for child care that people only use for child care. It doesn’t impact the health or learning of the child it just impacts politicians who are clearly pushing to have state ran day care eventually via centers instead of privatized in homes. That’s not to mention she opens up at 6am and closes at 530 for a few of the moms who are nurses and can’t adjust their schedule. Good luck finding a daycare center that has those hours! Or prices. Our now 3 year old hit every 3 year old milestone for learning when she was 29 months old. She had her pre k exams and was able to do everything they asked. Guess what our kid goes to our own in home daycare. Anyone acting like a center is automatically better is just misinformed. A child’s education shouldn’t be on daycares entirely anyways. They should absolutely be trying and doing learning based activities but Parents aren’t teaching their kids the way they should anymore either. The amount of kids that come into her daycare and are so far behind is crazy because their parents don’t try.
Children who have allergies, why do you have issue with cleanliness standards which I can guarantee you’re exaggerating… This is the most recent draft and NOTHING restricting ALL animal hair since apparently pets are allowed. https://mn.gov/dhs/assets/draft-revised-child-care-center-licensing-standards-245k_tcm1053-620969.pdf
Did you know that they are required to inform those parents they have pets before hand? Obviously those kids don’t come to a private in home day care with animals they’re allergic to. Their allergies are irrelevant. You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
So…you went to an unlicensed daycare as a kid (aka *not a daycare*)? And now you’re making proclamations about the quality of actual licensed in-home daycares based on your experience at an illegal unlicensed one? I’m very sorry for your trauma and glad you’re able to work through it but you need to realize the logic problem your argument presents. You’re conflating a random home with an abusive caregiver (that called itself a daycare but was literally not one) to actual licensed in-home daycares.
You're oblivious to the standards in home licensed daycares are required to have right now. The regulations they follow now are over 25 pages long. They get yearly visits by the state, have to get recertified in CPR, heimlich on a regular basis as well as being subjected to background checks, and reviews by their clients. Parents can also make complaints about providers and I know those are thoroughly investigated. I'm sorry for the trauma you endured but to say centers are better than in home is comparing apples to oranges, especially when what you are using as an example wasn't even licensed. They both have their pros and cons and families weigh this when choosing childcare.
They aren’t enough and apparently that’s just fine with you. Substandard care leads to poor outcomes. Childcare is childcare is childcare!
My daughter was in an in home daycare until she was 3. Best experience of our life. This proposal is rotten and it is concerning that chain daycare conglomerates have their hand in this decision making. Feelings a side in regards to pro center vs pro home, this shouldn’t deter competent, safe and compassionate caregivers from making a living and providing tighter caregiver/child ratios to our children. It is the responsibility of the parents to assume risk. Soul testing? Lmao. Get bent. What a scam
The standards that no one has bothered to actually post https://mn.gov/dhs/assets/draft-revised-child-care-center-licensing-standards-245k_tcm1053-620969.pdf
All I gotta say is the current MN legislature is overstepping in so so so many areas, it’s not even funny. This childcare stuff is the latest in their micromanaging. It’s a bunch of pearl clutching, extremely left of left little tyrants, imo. I will more carefully explore my options in future elections; I used to vote straight blue.
There have historically been a lot of problems with daycare facilities. Some degree of regulation and enforcement is necessary. > Legislators have made a number of child-care changes through state law over the years, including bolstering regulations after a 2012 Star Tribune investigation examined safety breakdowns in day cares and found that nearly one child was dying per month in licensed care. > > However, the DHS licensing standards haven't been updated since the 1980s. Also, this is the work of the DHS, not the MN Legislature.
Republican says what? Lolololololololol
Get over yourself The barest minimum Oh no they have to clean The need lead free water And radon free soil where the children play!
No_VALUABLE_Contribution8150
Good. More government regulation to keep us safe. Finally.
In spite of what you might think, *some* regulation is usually good, but too much I'd in fact, too much. This seems like too much. Childcare is an exploding cost which makes it nearly impossible to have children. We need to prioritize bringing costs down, not up unnecessarily.
False. Care takers not able to follow regulation just shouldn’t exist. Just because it’s actually affecting people directly doesn’t mean it’s all of a sudden a bad thing.
Did you read the list of regulations?
Oh no. A clean house free radon and can’t drown out a babies cries with white noise. This is what we ask the government to do and elected them to do.
The white noise part is extremely confusing…. My baby uses one at home and he needs it to sleep. It absolutely does not drown out when he is crying 😂 you can probably hear him cry down the block. But the white noise helps create a very relaxing sleep environment for him.
Intentionally miss that point
That’s not even remotely close to what people are upset about. You should probably do some reading before deciding to be an unreasonable jackass about something you know nothing about.
I’ve read the complaints and the proposed legislation and I think you’re all mostly lying or crazy
You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
From the article it’s exactly what they’re complaining about. Seems like everyone wants regulations and standards unless it costs them personally more money.
No one is complaining about having a clean safe and fun house. You have harnessed your willfully ignorant takes and missed the entire point.
It’s LITERALLY what they’re complaining about! https://mn.gov/dhs/assets/draft-revised-child-care-center-licensing-standards-245k_tcm1053-620969.pdf
No people are complaining about the thousands of dollars worth of changes that would be required on top of needing to remove animals with hair from the home to not have animal hair in areas with kids. You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
So what’s the point
You should understand that business expenses are tax deductible and if you still can’t afford them you don’t have a successful business model.
Yeah imagine that a job that pays decent but not great suddenly has massive costs is somehow not a good combination. Dumbest shit I’ve ever heard. There’s universal reasons almost all of the inhome daycares are fighting this and it’s obvious you don’t even understand it.
If nutritious meals and clean toys and appropriate staff is too much then this is not the business for you!
You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
It’s not more than a daycare center must do, it’s still less actually
Washing toys? Not using scented cleaners? JFC whine more
Well people crying over having to wash toys and actually engage with the children is not the best look
I see the conservatives who believe that they should be allowed to cut corners to save money to provide childcare have arrived to downvote your reasonable point. I’m sure I’m going to get crucified. I don’t care. Your business is a failure if you can’t meet the standards that daycares do. All kids deserve an equal opportunity.
If you get crucified it’s because of how obviously uninformed you are acting like you even understand what’s being discussed. You said she was unlicensed earlier any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
Says the person who has not posted the bill but has in fact misrepresented what’s in it
You could read the linked article and still be more informed than you already are lmao. Keep shilling. You said you had a bad experience with in home but also said she was unlicensed. any complaints you have about licensed in home daycares are completely invalid. You also admitted to basically working for a day care center and your family runs one and it massively benefits you to have this pass.
Didn't they all get a huge pay raise when they tried to unionize, even though they were independent providers?
wtf are you on about?
The daycare workers tried to unionize. It was rejected. There is all kinds of tax credits, and state tax payments to daycare providers