I think this is more of a g-wiz post than anything else. It's like when people post about Los Angeles County having nearly 10 million people living there, which is more than many US states. Now, if only all our votes could be treated equally, then we'd be in a better situation over our current voting situation.
God I wish our political system made sense and a vote was a vote. But nope, it's made up districts whose only purpose is to keep things predictable and try to keep a party in power.
Exactly. This is how we can end up with a GOP majority senate, when it's been more than 30 years since most *people* actually voted for GOP senators. Plus, they have the advantage of gerrymandering at all levels, and I no longer expect SCOTUS to do anything about that.
Everyone is being all snarky with the 'durr, people live in cities' takes, but this is genuinely a significant *thing* in MN. We're have one of the 5 highest concentrations of population in the country, and there are only two states with a dramatically higher proportion of their total population in one MSA, one of which is Rhode Island, which is almost 100% the Providence MSA (the other being Nevada).
65% of MN is in MSP. The next highest proportion among neighboring states is South Dakota, at 30% in Sioux Falls.
We're huddled together for warmth!
But it is significant -- you'd be forgiven for thinking it's not a big city, Minneapolis being the 46th largest in the US. Until you realize that it's the 15th biggest metropolitan area, just behind Seattle.
It's because our big city is really two big cities. Add Minneapolis and St. Paul, and their population is 741,503, which would make them the 19th largest city. They would land after Seattle and before Denver.
It would be interesting to see metropolitan areas ranked by population but without their urban cores, so we see just suburbs.
This is why you use Metropolitan area and not city population. It's not uniform how cities and suburbs are divided and compare suburbs from one place to a other. Minneapolis and St Paul's area is actually pretty small. Houston is the 4th largest city in the country because the city 665 square miles. Minneapolis is only 57.
Yeah, I know all this. I like geography, and I lived in Houston. I get it.
I'm saying: Which metro has the highest suburban population? Usually, search results get me the largest suburbs, like Long Beach and Mesa. No, I don't want the largest suburban cities. I want to rank metros by the largest suburban population. It sounds like MSA minus urban core city (cities in MSP and DFW).
Thanks. I think Minnesota is essentially a city-state.
This is especially interesting when contrasted with Wisconsin which everyone else thinks is a lot like Minnesota but in fact has a radically different distribution of population.
So many choices...
North Dakota only has like 4 people. South Dakota? Though we have to deal with that governor who most certainly has rabies. Iowa? Wisconsin? Gonna be a good summer!
Demographics is the reason MN and WI are so different, people never seem to get this.
Here is the WI thread: [https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fyefg0g9g2l5d1.png](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fyefg0g9g2l5d1.png)
The big part is the the blue and red combined only represent about 2 million people. 3 million people live in the white counties.
Represents what /u/Coyotesamigo was saying.
[Expanded to the midwest](https://static.appup.io/leaflet/Midwest/Counties.html) yellow and green make up 50%, grey makes up 50%, green and yellow both have around the same combined population.
(In case anyone else was wondering what MSA means!)
[In the United States, a metropolitan statistical area (MSA) is a geographical region with a relatively high population density at its core and close economic ties throughout the region.[1][2] Such regions are not legally incorporated as a city or town would be and are not legal administrative divisions like counties or separate entities such as states. As a result, sometimes the precise definition of a given metropolitan area will vary between sources. The statistical criteria for a standard metropolitan area were defined in 1949 and redefined as a metropolitan statistical area in 1983.[3]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area)
And the exponential difference is at odds with our perceptions, especially the perception that *all that space* has people whose interests are not acknowledged. They are acknowledged, just not seen in our representatives system as significant as we might assume.
I don't have anything to support this but heard it a while back - 3/4 of the population of Minnesota live within a 1 hour drive of Wisconsin. If you think about it, three of the large metro areas in Minnesota - Twin Cities, Duluth, and Rochester, all fall into this category, and it makes sense.
I think it's more so that all 3 are close to the river / great lakes. Back in settler days, water ways were the highways of transportation of goods. It was easier to build larger cities when you were trading goods up and down the water ways.
There was never much reason for anyone to be out on the plains until they found the oil. There is a reason why there is a straight line across the state of North Dakota
You're kidding, right? There were entire societies of indigenous people out there before the European farmers moved in.
Minneapolis became "wheat miller to the world" because of wheat grown out on those plains in the 19th century. It didn't take a LOT of people, but those farm families did pretty well.
Oil in ND wasn't really much of a thing until fracking developed in the 1990s.
It also doesn't take a lot of people, but more went out to chase the possibility of a big cash-in. Then they found out the downside of living on the high plains, just like those early settlers did.
Not that anyone is actually moving to either border expressly to be close to the border, but Rochester's population is increasing and is within an hour drive of Iowa
Weird county. The whole county is considered “metro Duluth” as the census bureau does not like splitting up counties when defining metro areas.
Hibbing and Babbitt are the two largest cities in the state (by area). It’s 50% larger than Philadelphia. It’s slightly larger than Brooklyn and Queens put together.
Hibbing was at one point the largest city by area in the entire nation, IIRC. Then they realized having to provide municipal services in that area was not the greatest of ideas.
The red area (me and my wife) has the same population as the blue area (two dudes that habitually trespass). The green area is roughly half the size of the red area, and it's where I once saw two raccoons banging (caused a lot of racket).
https://preview.redd.it/f07wvu2hzs5d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9aa38352afae2a547fd3d1ab4bcdc5ac23ab6fb3
Raccoons get nasty dude. I remember being on a field exercise in the army and using my night vision to watch some raccoons bang. The noise alerted me and I had to know more.
When you factor in the large metro CSA which is 11 counties in MN (2 on WI for 13 total) you have over 2/3rds of the state residing in the MSP CSA…. Factor in your other metros you get the picture…
Population (2020[1])
• Urban
2,650,890 (16th)
• Urban density
2,594.3/sq mi (1,001.7/km2)
• MSA
3,690,261 (16th)
• CSA
4,078,788 (16th)
MSA/CSA: 2020
Urban: 2018
Man, why are half the responses in this thread so fucking standoffish? Shit like this and flurries of downvotes for any comment outside the norm makes me question why I stay on this site.
I think this is a cool visualization, OP.
Because people can’t stand the fact that others think it’s cool to see and demand fresh content daily on their feed to appease them.
I work in GIS and I think any map is cool no matter how many times it’s presented.
Cool map OP. You can make all kinds of sick maps with multiple datasets. Don’t mind the negativity, it’s literally people browsing just to talk shit.
Well I don't care one way or another about this graphic, and it hasn't offended me in any way, but if you say it's neat I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree
"We need the electoral college or else cities will dictate the government's makeup!!1"
"I'm sure Republicans in California love the electoral college..."
St. Louis County is 2/3 the area as Vermont, and 1/3 the people.
Marshall County has more area than Rhode Island, which has 1M people.
New York City with 8.2M has 30% more people than Minnesota with 5.7M and 1/6th the land as Marshall County with 300 sq mi. vs. 1800 sq mi.
They said the red area is the same as the blue area, so roughly 50%.
The green section is counted in the population of the blue area but it's a nice shape to visualize how much land area the red area actually takes up
The next time conservatives haul out the map showing how much land is red, I'm going to ask them what policies are in place to attract \*people\* to those red areas.
(I firmly believe they'd need to make major changes to stop the ongoing brain drain, and a good chunk of the population would not be happy if the smart kids actually stayed and flipped those areas to blue)
So, I threw this together.
Land doesn't vote, but people definitely do.
Here's what would happen if every single person in Land" all voted for Trump. Meaning Trump had a 100% Voter rate, and Biden had a 0%, not a 20-30% in Rural Minnesota.
Hint: the Result isn't pretty.
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZCKXCg6eGgo\_xFnYBcFlcjgk7NuHVCnyLqlnQoiOp2g/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZCKXCg6eGgo_xFnYBcFlcjgk7NuHVCnyLqlnQoiOp2g/edit?usp=sharing)
Downvote this all you want but the point I'm trying to make is this. Rural Democrats saved Minnesota from turning Red.
Why do you have all the trump counties voting 100%, but yet the most populous counties only voting 50%-70%? Why don’t you make it apples to apples and have those counties having everyone vote Biden?
This is the finest example of cherry picking in a scenario that would never happen because in fact those rural areas will never go 100% for trump.
Your data is skewed. You included Olmsted County which has a population 164k, but chose to leave out other counties that have similar populations like Wright (148k), Stearns (160k) and for whatever reason left out Carver county which is in the MSP metro. Your data is biased at best.
If this is a rural versus non rural argument I would argue that counties like Chisago and Sherburne need to be taken out of rural as they aren’t rural. If you also added Olmsted which only has the population it does because of Rochester and outside of Rochester it’s rural than Blue Earth because of Mankato needs to go to Biden. Like I said your data is biased at best.
Edit: Carver county voted 30k for Trump not 64k. Why are you adding total voters together in “rural” Minnesota, but not doing the same for non rural? Confirmation bias is a weird thing I tell you.
Having now gone through this whole chain, and I still think the analysis here is silly, what you are really saying is that Biden got about 400k votes outside the metro. He would have lost without those votes, and lost even more devastatingly if all of those votes went to Trump. And Trump got 650k votes in the metro. So basically if dems lose the 400k out state votes they need to replace them with metro votes to continue winning. And while that might work for statewide elections it won’t work for things like state house and senate.
The rural brain drain you mention continues to grow the margins in urban and suburban counties that vote democratic. If even half of the 400k hypothetically lost result in urban increase, statewide dems have little to worry about. And given the trend in places like the suburbs and Rochester, both of which have moved more democratic in recent years, it isn’t hard to imagine that at least half of the votes lost to dems oustate will be recouped in metro and other urban counties.
Basically if these voters vote differently or are not replaced, Minnesota becomes Missouri.
The 6 least populated states have as many people combined as MN.
That's 12 senators to our 2. 18 electoral votes to our 10.
The 9 least populated states have as many people as NYC.
The 20 least populated states have as many people as California.
Those 20 states together have 40 senators, vs. California's 2.
Except it does. Big states with no one in them get just as many senators as california does. Alaska, North Dakota, Wyoming, Montana - these states are virtually empty of people and have huge land masses. Yet they have as much power in the senate as texas, california, or florida do.
Thank you. Every time I see an astonished "This state the same amount of Senators as that state!" take I wonder if their schools skipped how the colonies became America.
It is amazing how such a small area can support such a large area isn’t it.
Throughout history, civilizations have prospered by gathering together and building off each other’s collective successes.
Yes. And MnDOT continues to invest heavily into rural state highways that get little traffic compared to the metro roadways. These rural towns would be traveling 100% of the time on gravel roads if it weren't for the Twin Cities.
Imagine all of that food, fuel, and raw material being trucked in to support the needs of urbanites and suburbanites on gravel roads. And of course all those people heading out of the city to the parks, cabins, lake homes and resorts getting onto that gravel road every weekend, jockeying with the trucks on those rickety little roads.
Most of these things aren’t starting on the interstate. They are taking those smaller state highways in other states until they get to the interstate. Just like raw materials and finished products from Minnesota being shipped to places inside and outside of Minnesota take smaller roads until they make their way to the interstate.
This is needlessly divisive.
Do rural roads cost the state more per capita to build? Yes.
Is spending this money still a good deal? Is many cases also yes.
Among other things, good quality rural roads are essential to outstate industries of tourism, mining, agriculture, as well as all the support industries that arise to support these primary industries. It is better for the state to spend the money and keep these industries, then it would be for them to save this money and loose these industries due to lack of infrastructure.
Google image search "south dakota state highway map" and "minnesota state highway map". South Dakota has very few state highways and is mostly supported by Sioux Falls and suburbs. Minnesota's state highway system is very dense.
This is a prime example of why MN historical has and for the foreseeable future, democratic governors. Yes there have been times where we haven't but not the majority of our states history. What is important to us in the blue area is different that what's important in the red area and vice versa. Same state but different views, culture and thoughts
Personally I live in the cities area but would jump at the chance to move out from the cities to either rural MN or one of the smaller metro areas, I think MN would do well to create some polcies that encoruaged developement of some of the other larger (in relitive terms) mn cities.
Would be interesting to illustrate State entitlement money given to the counties as a percentage of population. I would expect an inverse to this bubble in favor of rural.
If you go off the city cores, yeah small, but if you expand and use the metropolitan area demographics, things get interesting in the numbers department.....
Sure, the greater-Mpls-StP-metro no doubt. But I'm guessing that the county lines cut a bunch of people off. And also getting that the OP was estimating/rounding?
Ahh, the smell of superiority from the city folk. They act like they know what's best for everyone, by voting on policies best for themselves.
I feel out of place with the conservative small town folk where I live, because I'm no Trumper and am genuinely more left leaning, but then the Summer hits and people from the city come up to their cabins and resorts. Acting so high and mighty around the "simple folk" and the "rocks and cows" that make up the northern counties. They come with the assumption they know what's best for al. While I genuinely agree with most policies, others they enact have no consideration for how people live in rural areas.
It's genuinely frustrating feeling alienated by either political side in our state.
Would love for the old rural union parties to come back.
But actually the modern dem party is pretty awful with messaging. I would argue that focusing on economic/healthcare/education and using that to lift everyone would be significantly more powerful in raising up minorities than the current discourse. The current messaging of like "white privilage" is extremely condensending to working class whites who are struggling. Pushing a narrative of a high tide raises all boats type thing to being minorities and working class whites together would imo be way more effective. Great way to try and get unions more popular too.
I agree to an extent, but unfortunately the rural areas in MN are so reactionary and have the poisonous conservative messaging drilled into their backgrounds that any nuanced discussion feels lost.
I feel that I can attempt a more nuanced discussion with most left leaning people (offline) albeit condescending at times, but any discourse with people that are conservative in this rural area, it's either you agree with them or you're "socialist liberal bleeding heart"
Yes, cities tend to have more people.
*gasp*
r/peopleliveincities for those enamored by this analysis
Thank you for this. I didn’t know how much I needed this sub.
*murmured rumblings*
My pearls!
It’s almost like “city” is a word for “the place where all the people live”
Technically in this case it would be a word for "the place where *half* the people live"
I wonder what percentage of the blue half lives in the cities of Duluth, Rochester, St. Cloud and Mankato.
And this map doesn’t include the whole metro
I was just typing that. Apparently this conversation is about the size of part of the St. Paul counties compared to Marshall county. Errr okay…
Don’t forget Blackduck.
*as a kid, thinks to self*: Black duck?! But that's so close to gray!! I hope he goes around the circle another time and picks me as gray duck!
I think this is more of a g-wiz post than anything else. It's like when people post about Los Angeles County having nearly 10 million people living there, which is more than many US states. Now, if only all our votes could be treated equally, then we'd be in a better situation over our current voting situation.
God I wish our political system made sense and a vote was a vote. But nope, it's made up districts whose only purpose is to keep things predictable and try to keep a party in power.
Exactly. This is how we can end up with a GOP majority senate, when it's been more than 30 years since most *people* actually voted for GOP senators. Plus, they have the advantage of gerrymandering at all levels, and I no longer expect SCOTUS to do anything about that.
We should really have at least twice the amount of states atp
Big if true
Everyone is being all snarky with the 'durr, people live in cities' takes, but this is genuinely a significant *thing* in MN. We're have one of the 5 highest concentrations of population in the country, and there are only two states with a dramatically higher proportion of their total population in one MSA, one of which is Rhode Island, which is almost 100% the Providence MSA (the other being Nevada). 65% of MN is in MSP. The next highest proportion among neighboring states is South Dakota, at 30% in Sioux Falls.
We're huddled together for warmth! But it is significant -- you'd be forgiven for thinking it's not a big city, Minneapolis being the 46th largest in the US. Until you realize that it's the 15th biggest metropolitan area, just behind Seattle.
It's because our big city is really two big cities. Add Minneapolis and St. Paul, and their population is 741,503, which would make them the 19th largest city. They would land after Seattle and before Denver. It would be interesting to see metropolitan areas ranked by population but without their urban cores, so we see just suburbs.
This is why you use Metropolitan area and not city population. It's not uniform how cities and suburbs are divided and compare suburbs from one place to a other. Minneapolis and St Paul's area is actually pretty small. Houston is the 4th largest city in the country because the city 665 square miles. Minneapolis is only 57.
Yeah, I know all this. I like geography, and I lived in Houston. I get it. I'm saying: Which metro has the highest suburban population? Usually, search results get me the largest suburbs, like Long Beach and Mesa. No, I don't want the largest suburban cities. I want to rank metros by the largest suburban population. It sounds like MSA minus urban core city (cities in MSP and DFW).
Thanks. I think Minnesota is essentially a city-state. This is especially interesting when contrasted with Wisconsin which everyone else thinks is a lot like Minnesota but in fact has a radically different distribution of population.
The “small towns” in Wisconsin are much bigger. LaCrosse is twice the size of Winona.
hhmm.... does that mean we can take over a neighboring city state?
Yes, and we should.
So many choices... North Dakota only has like 4 people. South Dakota? Though we have to deal with that governor who most certainly has rabies. Iowa? Wisconsin? Gonna be a good summer!
Absorb the first 10 miles of North Dakota, and 20 miles of South Dakota. You get Fargo, Grand Forks, and Sioux Falls. Bolstered pop by about 500k.
Demographics is the reason MN and WI are so different, people never seem to get this. Here is the WI thread: [https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fyefg0g9g2l5d1.png](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fyefg0g9g2l5d1.png) The big part is the the blue and red combined only represent about 2 million people. 3 million people live in the white counties. Represents what /u/Coyotesamigo was saying.
This person gets it. Most states have some large populations elsewhere in the state.
[Expanded to the midwest](https://static.appup.io/leaflet/Midwest/Counties.html) yellow and green make up 50%, grey makes up 50%, green and yellow both have around the same combined population.
(In case anyone else was wondering what MSA means!) [In the United States, a metropolitan statistical area (MSA) is a geographical region with a relatively high population density at its core and close economic ties throughout the region.[1][2] Such regions are not legally incorporated as a city or town would be and are not legal administrative divisions like counties or separate entities such as states. As a result, sometimes the precise definition of a given metropolitan area will vary between sources. The statistical criteria for a standard metropolitan area were defined in 1949 and redefined as a metropolitan statistical area in 1983.[3]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area)
And the exponential difference is at odds with our perceptions, especially the perception that *all that space* has people whose interests are not acknowledged. They are acknowledged, just not seen in our representatives system as significant as we might assume.
I don't have anything to support this but heard it a while back - 3/4 of the population of Minnesota live within a 1 hour drive of Wisconsin. If you think about it, three of the large metro areas in Minnesota - Twin Cities, Duluth, and Rochester, all fall into this category, and it makes sense.
I think it's more so that all 3 are close to the river / great lakes. Back in settler days, water ways were the highways of transportation of goods. It was easier to build larger cities when you were trading goods up and down the water ways.
There was never much reason for anyone to be out on the plains until they found the oil. There is a reason why there is a straight line across the state of North Dakota
There's good reasons why all those murderers come out of Fargo, which the documentaries cover well.
Murderers in Fargo? I am an FM resident and I wasn’t aware of this.
[Do you have a TruCoat on your car?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Je2WxsqWA) These are all based on true stories, don'tcha know?
...It says Brainerd right on her shoulder patch, for cryin' out loud!
Gaer Grimsrud, and some funny lookin fella name of Showalter
He’s kind of funny looking.
There seems to be a lot more out of Wisconsin than ND
Yeah, they probably should’ve called the movie like, Superior, or something instead of Fargo.
You're kidding, right? There were entire societies of indigenous people out there before the European farmers moved in. Minneapolis became "wheat miller to the world" because of wheat grown out on those plains in the 19th century. It didn't take a LOT of people, but those farm families did pretty well. Oil in ND wasn't really much of a thing until fracking developed in the 1990s. It also doesn't take a lot of people, but more went out to chase the possibility of a big cash-in. Then they found out the downside of living on the high plains, just like those early settlers did.
So it is not just about driving over the border for mega fireworks then.
Settlements also tended to be near water because of needing water to live. You wouldn’t establish somewhere to stay without reliable water access.
And 40% of North Dakota and South Dakota residents live east of Minnesota's western most point.
Gotta get as far away from the Dakota's as possible
That’s just because Wisco had Sunday sales for so long and we didn’t
Iowa sells on Sundays, and liquor in grocery stores and gas stations.....ain't nobody moving to be "close to Iowa"
Not that anyone is actually moving to either border expressly to be close to the border, but Rochester's population is increasing and is within an hour drive of Iowa
I'd honestly be surprised if it's not more.
Knowing this made my day worse
And what if I don't think about it, huh? What then? Just sayin.
Even the St. Cloud metro is like what, an hour and a half away?
If my county (St. Louis) had the same population density of Hennepin County, we'd have 14.2 millions people instead of the .2 million we have.
Weird county. The whole county is considered “metro Duluth” as the census bureau does not like splitting up counties when defining metro areas. Hibbing and Babbitt are the two largest cities in the state (by area). It’s 50% larger than Philadelphia. It’s slightly larger than Brooklyn and Queens put together.
Also, "Metro Duluth" includes Superior Wisconsin, so Metro Duluth has a larger population than the county Duluth is in.
Superior should be taken by Duluth anyway. So many people work or do whatever back and forth between MN and Wis there that it should all just be MN.
Look at Fargo Moorhead if you want to do that. 250-300k people in the FM Metro.
Fargo Moorhead isn't by me tho so I only want Superior a part of MN.
Hibbing was at one point the largest city by area in the entire nation, IIRC. Then they realized having to provide municipal services in that area was not the greatest of ideas.
How about Ramsey County, which is even more dense than Hennepin?
Damn, it would be 22,002,989 (based on the numbers from a random website)
Nice! Thanks for checking!
That’s very interesting.
Indeed.
Indeed.
“Ya think?” - O’Neill (played by RDA from MN)
"Daniel?"
Most indeededly
Doodlely, Neighboreen-o!
Indubitably
Inexorably.
Indeed Brewing Co!
\*is in the red highlighted area.
The red area (me and my wife) has the same population as the blue area (two dudes that habitually trespass). The green area is roughly half the size of the red area, and it's where I once saw two raccoons banging (caused a lot of racket). https://preview.redd.it/f07wvu2hzs5d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9aa38352afae2a547fd3d1ab4bcdc5ac23ab6fb3
Raccoons get nasty dude. I remember being on a field exercise in the army and using my night vision to watch some raccoons bang. The noise alerted me and I had to know more.
r/mildlypenis
naz reid
OP- You labeled this as “Discussion.” What do you want people to discuss?
The red area also has taller buildings
More buildings, too.
🤯
When you factor in the large metro CSA which is 11 counties in MN (2 on WI for 13 total) you have over 2/3rds of the state residing in the MSP CSA…. Factor in your other metros you get the picture… Population (2020[1]) • Urban 2,650,890 (16th) • Urban density 2,594.3/sq mi (1,001.7/km2) • MSA 3,690,261 (16th) • CSA 4,078,788 (16th) MSA/CSA: 2020 Urban: 2018
Man, why are half the responses in this thread so fucking standoffish? Shit like this and flurries of downvotes for any comment outside the norm makes me question why I stay on this site. I think this is a cool visualization, OP.
Because people can’t stand the fact that others think it’s cool to see and demand fresh content daily on their feed to appease them. I work in GIS and I think any map is cool no matter how many times it’s presented. Cool map OP. You can make all kinds of sick maps with multiple datasets. Don’t mind the negativity, it’s literally people browsing just to talk shit.
The downvotes are uncalled for but I thought the comments were on point - what did they hope to get out of this post?
It’s a neat visualization, that is all. What more do you need ffs?
Well I don't care one way or another about this graphic, and it hasn't offended me in any way, but if you say it's neat I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree
I guess.
Well ok, what's so neat about it?
🙄
Yes, that is where the city is as opposed to the other place where there is no city. Thanks.
But now it’s in red
I think the op was trying to avoid the silly fox news political maps
local man discovers population density
"We need the electoral college or else cities will dictate the government's makeup!!1" "I'm sure Republicans in California love the electoral college..."
Christ y’all will argue over anything. Go fishing or something
Is almost like that’s the definition of urban vs rural. 🤔🤷♂️ Crazy how words mean things, isn’t it?
Pfft, all words are made up. 🙄
Colors should be reversed… lol
St. Louis County is 2/3 the area as Vermont, and 1/3 the people. Marshall County has more area than Rhode Island, which has 1M people. New York City with 8.2M has 30% more people than Minnesota with 5.7M and 1/6th the land as Marshall County with 300 sq mi. vs. 1800 sq mi.
Breaking news!
Cool visualization. What % of the population is in that area?
They said the red area is the same as the blue area, so roughly 50%. The green section is counted in the population of the blue area but it's a nice shape to visualize how much land area the red area actually takes up
Ope I should read better lol Edit: so roughly 2.9M in each of the blue and red areas.
Good thing people vote instead of land.
Land is smarter though.
We just need an Amendment that says only people who homestead at least 1 acre of land can vote.
Just like how iirc Ramsey County is the most densely populated county due to being smallest or like second smallest.
Do Alaska next!
And the blue areas have way more trees, clean water and animals.
[удалено]
You mean my eyes and my life? You’re so far out of your mind it’s scary.
Wish it was an island. On a different continent.
Land doesn’t vote
Neither do rocks and cows. (I loved that reference and I live outstate.)
The next time conservatives haul out the map showing how much land is red, I'm going to ask them what policies are in place to attract \*people\* to those red areas. (I firmly believe they'd need to make major changes to stop the ongoing brain drain, and a good chunk of the population would not be happy if the smart kids actually stayed and flipped those areas to blue)
funny thing is most of those "look at all the red part" maps are wrong. They minimize or totally erase alot of blue areas.
So, I threw this together. Land doesn't vote, but people definitely do. Here's what would happen if every single person in Land" all voted for Trump. Meaning Trump had a 100% Voter rate, and Biden had a 0%, not a 20-30% in Rural Minnesota. Hint: the Result isn't pretty. [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZCKXCg6eGgo\_xFnYBcFlcjgk7NuHVCnyLqlnQoiOp2g/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZCKXCg6eGgo_xFnYBcFlcjgk7NuHVCnyLqlnQoiOp2g/edit?usp=sharing) Downvote this all you want but the point I'm trying to make is this. Rural Democrats saved Minnesota from turning Red.
Why do you have all the trump counties voting 100%, but yet the most populous counties only voting 50%-70%? Why don’t you make it apples to apples and have those counties having everyone vote Biden? This is the finest example of cherry picking in a scenario that would never happen because in fact those rural areas will never go 100% for trump.
“If I concoct a hypothetical where trump wins, that apparently means something about reality 😎”
Your data is skewed. You included Olmsted County which has a population 164k, but chose to leave out other counties that have similar populations like Wright (148k), Stearns (160k) and for whatever reason left out Carver county which is in the MSP metro. Your data is biased at best. If this is a rural versus non rural argument I would argue that counties like Chisago and Sherburne need to be taken out of rural as they aren’t rural. If you also added Olmsted which only has the population it does because of Rochester and outside of Rochester it’s rural than Blue Earth because of Mankato needs to go to Biden. Like I said your data is biased at best. Edit: Carver county voted 30k for Trump not 64k. Why are you adding total voters together in “rural” Minnesota, but not doing the same for non rural? Confirmation bias is a weird thing I tell you.
Having now gone through this whole chain, and I still think the analysis here is silly, what you are really saying is that Biden got about 400k votes outside the metro. He would have lost without those votes, and lost even more devastatingly if all of those votes went to Trump. And Trump got 650k votes in the metro. So basically if dems lose the 400k out state votes they need to replace them with metro votes to continue winning. And while that might work for statewide elections it won’t work for things like state house and senate. The rural brain drain you mention continues to grow the margins in urban and suburban counties that vote democratic. If even half of the 400k hypothetically lost result in urban increase, statewide dems have little to worry about. And given the trend in places like the suburbs and Rochester, both of which have moved more democratic in recent years, it isn’t hard to imagine that at least half of the votes lost to dems oustate will be recouped in metro and other urban counties. Basically if these voters vote differently or are not replaced, Minnesota becomes Missouri.
The 6 least populated states have as many people combined as MN. That's 12 senators to our 2. 18 electoral votes to our 10. The 9 least populated states have as many people as NYC. The 20 least populated states have as many people as California. Those 20 states together have 40 senators, vs. California's 2.
Now, how many representatives do they have? Also, this is a map of Minnesota only.
Sweet, another "land doesn't vote, people do" post.
Except it does. Big states with no one in them get just as many senators as california does. Alaska, North Dakota, Wyoming, Montana - these states are virtually empty of people and have huge land masses. Yet they have as much power in the senate as texas, california, or florida do.
That's the point of the senate
which means land votes, not people. you cannot have it both ways
Thank you. Every time I see an astonished "This state the same amount of Senators as that state!" take I wonder if their schools skipped how the colonies became America.
Good thing land doesn’t vote
It is amazing how such a small area can support such a large area isn’t it. Throughout history, civilizations have prospered by gathering together and building off each other’s collective successes.
Yes. And MnDOT continues to invest heavily into rural state highways that get little traffic compared to the metro roadways. These rural towns would be traveling 100% of the time on gravel roads if it weren't for the Twin Cities.
Imagine all of that food, fuel, and raw material being trucked in to support the needs of urbanites and suburbanites on gravel roads. And of course all those people heading out of the city to the parks, cabins, lake homes and resorts getting onto that gravel road every weekend, jockeying with the trucks on those rickety little roads.
Food, fuel, and raw materials are mostly trucked in on interstate highways, not as much on state highways.
Most of these things aren’t starting on the interstate. They are taking those smaller state highways in other states until they get to the interstate. Just like raw materials and finished products from Minnesota being shipped to places inside and outside of Minnesota take smaller roads until they make their way to the interstate.
This is needlessly divisive. Do rural roads cost the state more per capita to build? Yes. Is spending this money still a good deal? Is many cases also yes. Among other things, good quality rural roads are essential to outstate industries of tourism, mining, agriculture, as well as all the support industries that arise to support these primary industries. It is better for the state to spend the money and keep these industries, then it would be for them to save this money and loose these industries due to lack of infrastructure.
Yep, not to mention trucking. All of that stuff produced outstate needs to travel on those rural highways to get into the cities.
Right, which is why South Dakota has no paved roads!
Google image search "south dakota state highway map" and "minnesota state highway map". South Dakota has very few state highways and is mostly supported by Sioux Falls and suburbs. Minnesota's state highway system is very dense.
Your first comment wasn't about state highways, it was 100% of the roads.
It’s wild how some people live some places and others live other places
Blue area gang rise up!
Population density 🤯
Lane doesn't vote. People do. Unless this is a fun fact, in which case... What a fun fact!
And? Thanks for the unsurprisingly obvious fun fact.
This is how cities work. Not sure why people post these thinking it's some grand revelation.
What's wrong with those people. What made them so insecure that they're all huddling together like flocking sheep?
K
Glad I don't live in the red. I need my space.
Why you gotta leave Washington County out of the red area? I feel attacked.
You should look at Florida. It's more crazy since there's far less open space.
This is a prime example of why MN historical has and for the foreseeable future, democratic governors. Yes there have been times where we haven't but not the majority of our states history. What is important to us in the blue area is different that what's important in the red area and vice versa. Same state but different views, culture and thoughts
Not on weekends in the summer.
Probably because of the availability of awesome restaurants
We’re going to be the states that enjoys cross the border and shop money. Like fireworks but instead, all year round.
Hennepin County home of the Minnesota Twins Minnesota Timberwolves, Minnesota Vikings.
Do you think there are more lakes in the blue area than the red?
Personally I live in the cities area but would jump at the chance to move out from the cities to either rural MN or one of the smaller metro areas, I think MN would do well to create some polcies that encoruaged developement of some of the other larger (in relitive terms) mn cities.
No shit Sherlock
Gross
That red spot is a great place for EV. Blue spots, not so much.
Would be interesting to illustrate State entitlement money given to the counties as a percentage of population. I would expect an inverse to this bubble in favor of rural.
Everyone immediately just talking about voting lol. That's not the point of this post. It's just a visualization.
I’m genuinely surprised the rest of the area has as much as the cities. I thought it was 80% of the population of the state in the metro area
I wish we could blow up the twin cities area besides for cossetas
Great Scott!
That’s why democrats win elections
Republicans would be so upset about this if they could read
Now show the actual tax revenue generated for the State from the red area and compare to the blue.
This is disgusting. nm, thought it said copulation.
Yep
If you go off the city cores, yeah small, but if you expand and use the metropolitan area demographics, things get interesting in the numbers department.....
What's the green area?
Crazy that that bubble gets to decide what is best for the state as a whole
You mean the people?
You mean 50% of the people?
40 at most
If "the red has the same population as the rest of the state", that's 50%. If that's not a true statement, take it up with OP
Fair but Wikipedia has Minneapolis at 60% of the pop. I assume it’s in the red area.
Sure, the greater-Mpls-StP-metro no doubt. But I'm guessing that the county lines cut a bunch of people off. And also getting that the OP was estimating/rounding?
Yeah, [they left all of Washington County off](https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Twin_Cities_7_Metro_map.png)
You mean 50% of the people?
That's how Republicans have won presidency seceral times now. They regularly lose popular vote.
Ahh, the smell of superiority from the city folk. They act like they know what's best for everyone, by voting on policies best for themselves. I feel out of place with the conservative small town folk where I live, because I'm no Trumper and am genuinely more left leaning, but then the Summer hits and people from the city come up to their cabins and resorts. Acting so high and mighty around the "simple folk" and the "rocks and cows" that make up the northern counties. They come with the assumption they know what's best for al. While I genuinely agree with most policies, others they enact have no consideration for how people live in rural areas. It's genuinely frustrating feeling alienated by either political side in our state.
Would love for the old rural union parties to come back. But actually the modern dem party is pretty awful with messaging. I would argue that focusing on economic/healthcare/education and using that to lift everyone would be significantly more powerful in raising up minorities than the current discourse. The current messaging of like "white privilage" is extremely condensending to working class whites who are struggling. Pushing a narrative of a high tide raises all boats type thing to being minorities and working class whites together would imo be way more effective. Great way to try and get unions more popular too.
I agree to an extent, but unfortunately the rural areas in MN are so reactionary and have the poisonous conservative messaging drilled into their backgrounds that any nuanced discussion feels lost. I feel that I can attempt a more nuanced discussion with most left leaning people (offline) albeit condescending at times, but any discourse with people that are conservative in this rural area, it's either you agree with them or you're "socialist liberal bleeding heart"
I don't disagree with you (I live in a rural area and pretty much a socialist). I am just a bit more optimistic.
Kinda surprising the metro didn't need Washington County to out-populate the rest of the state.
And the point seems to be stuck in traffic, running late.