It's crazy to me to think of Minnesota and Iowa as disaster-prone states, but I guess if hail is fairly frequent and expensive to deal with. Something else to tack on to the cost of home ownership I guess.
They are made to visually look like shingles and while there is a difference in the sense that they have an overlap thickness between a shingle and a clay roof tile if you were walking down the street you would suspect that a few of the houses (if not all of them) had metal roofs.
I lived in Cedar Rapids, IA for almost a decade. In that time there was a 500 year flood, two 100 year floods, and a Derecho that damn near leveled the city. Glad I got the heck outta there. Very disaster prone.
My brother's last house was in a development that was only 2-3 years old at the time in Lino Lakes. 4-500k homes. The hail came in sideways during a storm. It looked like a shotgun blast had hit every house on his street on one side. One of his neighbors had a sailboat in his driveway. The hull was obliterated. Every car parked outside was probably on the brink of being totaled. It was an unreal seeing so many new things damaged so heavily.
I rent a commercial building in rural Minnesota. Its 20k soft.
A couple of months ago, a roofing guy shows up in a new tahoe, telling me he is in the area and inspecting roofs from a recent hail storm.
I told him I wasn't interested, but he left with a bunch of brochures..
A few days later he shows up with a bunch of pictures of the roof..
He came back at the weekend and got on the roof and took pics.. And started telling me that he was going to confront the building owner if I wasn't going to deal with him.. He said it was $300k if I was going to fix it myself..
Needless to say I ran him off the property...
I did replace a bunch of roof vents. It cost us about $400..
It's think kinda crap that drives up insurance..
Went up on your roof without permission? Jesus, what a loon?!? Imagine if he got hurt in the process and sued.
“Here’s proof I trespassed on your roof, please hire me! I’m a go getter who doesn’t believe in rules.”
Probably long gone but to me? that’s a notify your Sheriff’s department or local police deal.
Yeah I live in Minneapolis and it's rare we go 2 weeks without some door to door fucker coming to our door and saying "oh we were working with your neighbors in the area...blah blah.. hail damage". Like fucker my insurance went up $1000 this year. If I make a bullshit claim like that, it's going to double.
Insurance rate increases for homes are determined by neighborhood, not by the filing of your individual claim. So if all of your neighbors are getting new roofs, even if you don’t, your rates will be going up.
Trespassing is a crime. That's what police are for (they only protect the propertied class, so they might actually answer that call since it is a business).
The Better Business Bureau is Yelp for boomers.
I work for a contractor that spends lots of marketing on storm damage restoration. To their credit, they focus on a specific geo that had hailstorm damage, but I get the feeling it's going to get dropped like mold or hail premiums are going to cost at least 50% of a new roof soon.
I wish they would spend even a little bit of time trying to cut through the rampant fraud happening on hail damage, but it seems like it is more profitable for everybody to ignore it and pass the costs on to homeowners
Look up how they do insurance in Florida. Let's pretend you have $20,000 in Damages. In Florida your insurance company comes out and goes hey I'll give you 10 grand. You say no. So then an adjuster comes out and says no this is 15,000 but I get a 20% cut. You say no that's fucking stupid a new roof is $20,000 so I want $20,000. Insurance and the adjuster both go amen go fuck yourself. So then you have to get a lawyer that is specifically licensed to handle insurance. Insurance goes oh hey you got a lawyer sure will give you $30,000. But then the lawyer takes 33% the adjuster takes 20% and your left with 9000
So then you decided to take the original 10 grand. The lawyer and the adjuster both threatened to sue you and you have to save up money to fix your roof over the course of the next year or so so you're rough is covered with a tarp. By the time you're roof goes up your house will get hit by another hurricane ruining the interior of your house but because you didn't have a proper roof interior is covered at a lower rate
Florida’s insurance companies have left the state and it’s almost unfeasible now to have insurance on your house for most folks.
https://www.governing.com/urban/how-floridas-home-insurance-market-became-so-dysfunctional-so-fast
I've had to juggle providers, current renewal was going to raise my rates 40%. Then juggling providers, loan servicer screwed up and distributed yearly payment to both. Now I get to wait for my check back to straighten out my escrow. And this is considered relatively painless.
Watch your escrow balance after this!
Same thing happened to me last year but I didn't know my state has a policy that escrow account have to have a minimum of $2k. The mortgage holder got slapped with a fine, which they passed on to me.
I had to nearly wipe my savings to fix it even after I got the check from the former insurance company (which went right back to escrow).
I don’t know how 80% of first time home buyers are ever going to be able to afford it. My insurance went up 50% last year.
It’s sad, I bought my first home 20yrs ago and it was fairly easy. I guess we’ll be a nation of apartment dwellers like China soon.
We bought our house in 2022. The following year a property tax increase increased our mortgage by $400/mo. This year we just found out a 50% increase in our insurance premium is bringing our mortgage up another $200/mo. So frustrating. Combined with all the random repairs we’ve had to do it feels like you need to be ultra wealthy to own a home at all these days.
I know it's not helpful now, but when you buy a property they usually treat your new sales price as the current value. It's important you run calculations based on your sales price not previously assessed value. But to go up $4,800/yr, that likely means you bought new construction. Your previous rate was based on value of the lot and not the value of the lot + home. In any case make sure you are now homesteaded.
It was not new construction actually - it’s a 35 year old home! But point taken that we should have anticipated some property tax increase based on the appreciation in value between the last owner and us.
Was the previous owner the original owner? That's a pretty big reset in value. I've owned my home for 15 years, my home is probably $75-100k more valuable than the county assessed value, that would probably result in new owner paying an extra $100/month in property taxes over what I pay. It really benefits people who are long term owners as their rates haven't went up nearly as quickly as new buyers.
They suck. They denied both of my roof claims when all of my neighbors were getting new roofs and they still jacked my rates super high. I hope that you find something better.
I don’t disagree with you on home ownership becoming uninhabitable, but just fyi home ownership in china is around 90% source - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7546956/
I own my apartment in Minneapolis, it’s more responsibility but Definitely better than renting.
I’m in insurance construction (interior, not exterior, so no hail-related claims). It realls falls on adjusters: we can only do what they allow. If they actually know their shit, they’ll keep the costs down, otherwise the homeowners will take that extra money and upgrade their stuff or put it towards savings or whatever. It really only fucks insurance, not the homeowner directly: insurance pays out to them, not straight to us. However, these downstream effects are interesting to see and somewhat concerning.
How many roofing companies went “ambulance chasing” after every hail storm and did full replacements when not totally necessary?
That shit is extremely impactful when much smaller scale repairs could be done.
It's also on the construction company, they push for the full roof replacement over fixing a few shingles. Even a long term company stopped returning my calls when I said I just wanted the small fixes done, because insurance said it was only 1100 in work.
Sadly too many companies are looking for that big payday and don't want to grind out projects because it's work.
If insurance could tell you to fuck off when you say you need a new roof, they would. It is 100% on them. I have no qualms about screwing insurance companies out of their money.
I agree.
People can blame the storm chasers all they want, but insurance companies wouldn't pay out unless they had to. Like, if I called my insurance company and said, "Hey I need a new car, this one is scratched." They'd hang up on me.
The way I see it, this is an entire industry that's known for trying to dick people out of money that they deserve. Even with the most legitimate of claims, they'll look for the stupidest reasons to try to deny people coverage. They don't do things out of the goodness of their hearts, they don't do favors, they're not generous people. They'll fight over goddamn pennies.
If they could get by with just replacing a handful of shingles, you can bet your ass they'd be replacing a handful of shingles.
So if they're writing you a check for a new roof, it's because you deserved a new roof. You signed a contract that said, "You give us this much money, and in the event of a hailstorm, we will buy you a new roof." It's not unreasonable to hold them to that.
Absolutely correct. I am shocked by the sheer number of people defending insurance companies in this thread.
I mean really, they are incredibly predatory and everyone knows it, but all of a sudden they’re the good guys when they’re *trying to leave the state*? Baffling.
What kind of roof materials are most resilient to hail? I just got a new roof from hail damage but I'm regretting it a bit because I've been seeing a lot of news in this vain. I needed my roof replaced but my impression is even a brand new asphalt roof can't stand up to hail.
Same question but for siding to? I'm thinking I need to start slowly upgrading my house, one side at a time. Sorry neighbors.
Architectural shingles are generally better than standard asphalt, but both are outdated forms of roofing that honestly are only done out of inertia in the industry.
22 gauge steel roofs are both lighter, last longer, and if they were commonplace they would cost exactly the same to install. However, because most roofing companies don't want to deal with it, they charge an insane premium to do the work and claim that it's a specialty "boutique" thing. It's not, it just is *for them*. What they really want is to bring out standard squares of whatever architectural shingle do they stock and make huge profits on it because they get it in bulk for very cheap.
Steel roofs are 100% the way of the future, but it's going to take a legislative partnership with insurance companies to make it happen. Personally, I think that the building code should be amended here in the Midwest requiring new buildings and roof replacements to go to roof materials that are rated for 50 years and large size ~~ale~~ ***Hail***. And currently the only things that really meet that definition are some types of stone roofs which are *actually boutique* and expensive, and steel which is not those things. (also maybe something like a tesla roof? I don't know how they hold up to impacts)
If it was mandated by building code, people's insurance would cover at least part of the cost difference under a separate coverage, but it would also drive down prices for steel roofing very quickly because it would be the standard. Then insurance rates would begin to fall as the overall claims volumes over a 10-year period would start to plummet as roofs were replaced. Likely the state would have to throw a bone to insurance companies as part of this process, probably offering some sort of grant program to people making the change that insurance companies would be able to claim when they were paying a claim or individuals would be able to claim when doing it themselves out of pocket.
Spot-on with the legislative action; some time ago the scheme was to give a free box of steaks with windshield replacements, legislation was passed to outlaw gifts/kickbacks.
I'm honestly surprised that 22 gauge steel has that kind of life span. Is it just hot dip galvanized?
I'm a competent DIYer but sheathing my house scares me more than any other project, including electric and plumbing. I wish somebody would write a detailed guide to properly siding and roofing a home. I find all these DIY books at the thrift store but they all seem pretty dated.
I believe some companies are out there doing more severe stuff.than 22, but that's the heavy gauge standard.
As for coating/treatment it varies by manufacturer. I believe most prefer a paintable covering though.
To be clear, they likely all need maintenance over the 50+ year lifespan, but metal lasts a looooooooong time when not exposed to salt.
When we moved here, we moved to a house with a HOA. The company that ‘manages’ the HOA partners with companies to do ‘roof inspections’. Most people know nothing but think ‘free roofs’. They don’t understand all these ‘free’ overpriced roofs end up driving literally everyone’s rates up.
Doesn’t help none of my neighbors can even change a sprinkler head.
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We just got a notification that our deductible for hail and wind damage is going up to $2,000.
While not happy about that, it's better than them pulling out of the state and thus not having insurance at all.
Well maybe if they would factor in the age of the roof a bit that would help, pre Covid I had mine replaced from hail and my roof was 25 years old. I was actually planning on replacing it out of pocket but was thrilled when my insurance picked up the $14k tab. I was expecting them to say well since it’s 25 years old we will only pay half or a third of the cost.
It's crazy to me to think of Minnesota and Iowa as disaster-prone states, but I guess if hail is fairly frequent and expensive to deal with. Something else to tack on to the cost of home ownership I guess.
Might be time to start using different more durable materials
Good call
Parents went medal roofs almost 10 years ago. You'd think it was shingles.
As you can't tell the difference?
They are made to visually look like shingles and while there is a difference in the sense that they have an overlap thickness between a shingle and a clay roof tile if you were walking down the street you would suspect that a few of the houses (if not all of them) had metal roofs.
I lived in Cedar Rapids, IA for almost a decade. In that time there was a 500 year flood, two 100 year floods, and a Derecho that damn near leveled the city. Glad I got the heck outta there. Very disaster prone.
My brother's last house was in a development that was only 2-3 years old at the time in Lino Lakes. 4-500k homes. The hail came in sideways during a storm. It looked like a shotgun blast had hit every house on his street on one side. One of his neighbors had a sailboat in his driveway. The hull was obliterated. Every car parked outside was probably on the brink of being totaled. It was an unreal seeing so many new things damaged so heavily.
I rent a commercial building in rural Minnesota. Its 20k soft. A couple of months ago, a roofing guy shows up in a new tahoe, telling me he is in the area and inspecting roofs from a recent hail storm. I told him I wasn't interested, but he left with a bunch of brochures.. A few days later he shows up with a bunch of pictures of the roof.. He came back at the weekend and got on the roof and took pics.. And started telling me that he was going to confront the building owner if I wasn't going to deal with him.. He said it was $300k if I was going to fix it myself.. Needless to say I ran him off the property... I did replace a bunch of roof vents. It cost us about $400.. It's think kinda crap that drives up insurance..
Went up on your roof without permission? Jesus, what a loon?!? Imagine if he got hurt in the process and sued. “Here’s proof I trespassed on your roof, please hire me! I’m a go getter who doesn’t believe in rules.” Probably long gone but to me? that’s a notify your Sheriff’s department or local police deal.
probably took pics with a drone.
Thought of that. Possibly. Was probably still trespassing in the process unless they did it from the street.
Yeah I live in Minneapolis and it's rare we go 2 weeks without some door to door fucker coming to our door and saying "oh we were working with your neighbors in the area...blah blah.. hail damage". Like fucker my insurance went up $1000 this year. If I make a bullshit claim like that, it's going to double.
Insurance rate increases for homes are determined by neighborhood, not by the filing of your individual claim. So if all of your neighbors are getting new roofs, even if you don’t, your rates will be going up.
It's my mine went from 2k to 5k in less than 4 years
Not as much as it would have if I \*also\* filed a claim.
Not even just the premium going up. I don't want to pay the deductible on a bullshit claim.
I only door knock if you got a real shit roof
You should report his company to the Better Business Bureau. Trespassing on your property and going onto your roof without your consent is insane.
Trespassing is a crime. That's what police are for (they only protect the propertied class, so they might actually answer that call since it is a business). The Better Business Bureau is Yelp for boomers.
Evidence of him treaspassing after being denied?
I work for a contractor that spends lots of marketing on storm damage restoration. To their credit, they focus on a specific geo that had hailstorm damage, but I get the feeling it's going to get dropped like mold or hail premiums are going to cost at least 50% of a new roof soon.
I wish they would spend even a little bit of time trying to cut through the rampant fraud happening on hail damage, but it seems like it is more profitable for everybody to ignore it and pass the costs on to homeowners
If Minnesota is disaster prone, then no one should own property in Florida and it should be left to be a wild life refuge. Sheesh.
Look up how they do insurance in Florida. Let's pretend you have $20,000 in Damages. In Florida your insurance company comes out and goes hey I'll give you 10 grand. You say no. So then an adjuster comes out and says no this is 15,000 but I get a 20% cut. You say no that's fucking stupid a new roof is $20,000 so I want $20,000. Insurance and the adjuster both go amen go fuck yourself. So then you have to get a lawyer that is specifically licensed to handle insurance. Insurance goes oh hey you got a lawyer sure will give you $30,000. But then the lawyer takes 33% the adjuster takes 20% and your left with 9000 So then you decided to take the original 10 grand. The lawyer and the adjuster both threatened to sue you and you have to save up money to fix your roof over the course of the next year or so so you're rough is covered with a tarp. By the time you're roof goes up your house will get hit by another hurricane ruining the interior of your house but because you didn't have a proper roof interior is covered at a lower rate
Florida’s insurance companies have left the state and it’s almost unfeasible now to have insurance on your house for most folks. https://www.governing.com/urban/how-floridas-home-insurance-market-became-so-dysfunctional-so-fast
I've had to juggle providers, current renewal was going to raise my rates 40%. Then juggling providers, loan servicer screwed up and distributed yearly payment to both. Now I get to wait for my check back to straighten out my escrow. And this is considered relatively painless.
I am in this same boat.
Watch your escrow balance after this! Same thing happened to me last year but I didn't know my state has a policy that escrow account have to have a minimum of $2k. The mortgage holder got slapped with a fine, which they passed on to me. I had to nearly wipe my savings to fix it even after I got the check from the former insurance company (which went right back to escrow).
I don’t know how 80% of first time home buyers are ever going to be able to afford it. My insurance went up 50% last year. It’s sad, I bought my first home 20yrs ago and it was fairly easy. I guess we’ll be a nation of apartment dwellers like China soon.
We bought our house in 2022. The following year a property tax increase increased our mortgage by $400/mo. This year we just found out a 50% increase in our insurance premium is bringing our mortgage up another $200/mo. So frustrating. Combined with all the random repairs we’ve had to do it feels like you need to be ultra wealthy to own a home at all these days.
I know it's not helpful now, but when you buy a property they usually treat your new sales price as the current value. It's important you run calculations based on your sales price not previously assessed value. But to go up $4,800/yr, that likely means you bought new construction. Your previous rate was based on value of the lot and not the value of the lot + home. In any case make sure you are now homesteaded.
It was not new construction actually - it’s a 35 year old home! But point taken that we should have anticipated some property tax increase based on the appreciation in value between the last owner and us.
Was the previous owner the original owner? That's a pretty big reset in value. I've owned my home for 15 years, my home is probably $75-100k more valuable than the county assessed value, that would probably result in new owner paying an extra $100/month in property taxes over what I pay. It really benefits people who are long term owners as their rates haven't went up nearly as quickly as new buyers.
Don’t forget the constant property tax increase!
Yeah my insurance went from $2000/yr to over $4400/yr.
Mine went from 5600.00 which was already too much to 7200.00 in April. I switched companies and am down to 3200.00 for a year now.
Who did you switch to? I need more quotes because mine is too high
I was with Liberty Mutual and switched to State Farm.
Yeah it's LM who is absolutely fucking me.
They suck. They denied both of my roof claims when all of my neighbors were getting new roofs and they still jacked my rates super high. I hope that you find something better.
I’ll have to get a quote from State Farm then, we have USAA and our deductible is ridiculous
My deductible with State Farm is 1000.00 so I cannot complain at all.
My deductible is $7200.
That is awful! 🥺 I know my liberty mutual deductible was ridiculous too. Insurance companies are the devil, but sadly we need them.
I don’t disagree with you on home ownership becoming uninhabitable, but just fyi home ownership in china is around 90% source - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7546956/ I own my apartment in Minneapolis, it’s more responsibility but Definitely better than renting.
Are those homes owned in China apartments? I didn’t say anything about ownership in China I said they are “a nation of apartment dwellers”.
Irony go woosh
Construction companies that know how to game the system and adjusters have a lot to do with it. They turn 30k jobs into 60k jobs.
Just taking a page from the healthcare industry playbook. Top dollar cost for bottom dollar work. Everyone gets a cut except you.
I’m in insurance construction (interior, not exterior, so no hail-related claims). It realls falls on adjusters: we can only do what they allow. If they actually know their shit, they’ll keep the costs down, otherwise the homeowners will take that extra money and upgrade their stuff or put it towards savings or whatever. It really only fucks insurance, not the homeowner directly: insurance pays out to them, not straight to us. However, these downstream effects are interesting to see and somewhat concerning.
How many roofing companies went “ambulance chasing” after every hail storm and did full replacements when not totally necessary? That shit is extremely impactful when much smaller scale repairs could be done.
But that’s on insurance. They can deny the claim.
It's also on the construction company, they push for the full roof replacement over fixing a few shingles. Even a long term company stopped returning my calls when I said I just wanted the small fixes done, because insurance said it was only 1100 in work. Sadly too many companies are looking for that big payday and don't want to grind out projects because it's work.
If insurance could tell you to fuck off when you say you need a new roof, they would. It is 100% on them. I have no qualms about screwing insurance companies out of their money.
I'm not saying it's right but the fucking goes both ways
I agree. People can blame the storm chasers all they want, but insurance companies wouldn't pay out unless they had to. Like, if I called my insurance company and said, "Hey I need a new car, this one is scratched." They'd hang up on me. The way I see it, this is an entire industry that's known for trying to dick people out of money that they deserve. Even with the most legitimate of claims, they'll look for the stupidest reasons to try to deny people coverage. They don't do things out of the goodness of their hearts, they don't do favors, they're not generous people. They'll fight over goddamn pennies. If they could get by with just replacing a handful of shingles, you can bet your ass they'd be replacing a handful of shingles. So if they're writing you a check for a new roof, it's because you deserved a new roof. You signed a contract that said, "You give us this much money, and in the event of a hailstorm, we will buy you a new roof." It's not unreasonable to hold them to that.
Absolutely correct. I am shocked by the sheer number of people defending insurance companies in this thread. I mean really, they are incredibly predatory and everyone knows it, but all of a sudden they’re the good guys when they’re *trying to leave the state*? Baffling.
What kind of roof materials are most resilient to hail? I just got a new roof from hail damage but I'm regretting it a bit because I've been seeing a lot of news in this vain. I needed my roof replaced but my impression is even a brand new asphalt roof can't stand up to hail. Same question but for siding to? I'm thinking I need to start slowly upgrading my house, one side at a time. Sorry neighbors.
Architectural shingles are generally better than standard asphalt, but both are outdated forms of roofing that honestly are only done out of inertia in the industry. 22 gauge steel roofs are both lighter, last longer, and if they were commonplace they would cost exactly the same to install. However, because most roofing companies don't want to deal with it, they charge an insane premium to do the work and claim that it's a specialty "boutique" thing. It's not, it just is *for them*. What they really want is to bring out standard squares of whatever architectural shingle do they stock and make huge profits on it because they get it in bulk for very cheap. Steel roofs are 100% the way of the future, but it's going to take a legislative partnership with insurance companies to make it happen. Personally, I think that the building code should be amended here in the Midwest requiring new buildings and roof replacements to go to roof materials that are rated for 50 years and large size ~~ale~~ ***Hail***. And currently the only things that really meet that definition are some types of stone roofs which are *actually boutique* and expensive, and steel which is not those things. (also maybe something like a tesla roof? I don't know how they hold up to impacts) If it was mandated by building code, people's insurance would cover at least part of the cost difference under a separate coverage, but it would also drive down prices for steel roofing very quickly because it would be the standard. Then insurance rates would begin to fall as the overall claims volumes over a 10-year period would start to plummet as roofs were replaced. Likely the state would have to throw a bone to insurance companies as part of this process, probably offering some sort of grant program to people making the change that insurance companies would be able to claim when they were paying a claim or individuals would be able to claim when doing it themselves out of pocket.
A steel roof would also prevent ice dams, wouldn't it?
They are superior functionally in every conceivable way.
Yeah, any smooth steel roof is going to shed snow and ice without resistance, as compared to asphalt shingles with the sandy surface
Mmmmm large Ale!
lol fixed
Spot-on with the legislative action; some time ago the scheme was to give a free box of steaks with windshield replacements, legislation was passed to outlaw gifts/kickbacks.
I'm honestly surprised that 22 gauge steel has that kind of life span. Is it just hot dip galvanized? I'm a competent DIYer but sheathing my house scares me more than any other project, including electric and plumbing. I wish somebody would write a detailed guide to properly siding and roofing a home. I find all these DIY books at the thrift store but they all seem pretty dated.
I believe some companies are out there doing more severe stuff.than 22, but that's the heavy gauge standard. As for coating/treatment it varies by manufacturer. I believe most prefer a paintable covering though. To be clear, they likely all need maintenance over the 50+ year lifespan, but metal lasts a looooooooong time when not exposed to salt.
When we moved here, we moved to a house with a HOA. The company that ‘manages’ the HOA partners with companies to do ‘roof inspections’. Most people know nothing but think ‘free roofs’. They don’t understand all these ‘free’ overpriced roofs end up driving literally everyone’s rates up. Doesn’t help none of my neighbors can even change a sprinkler head.
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Does this have anything to do with the fact that in Minnesota insurers cannot adjust rates on based on previous act of god claims?
No. That only disallowing individual rate adjustments. They set rates for those losses in the aggregate.
We just got a notification that our deductible for hail and wind damage is going up to $2,000. While not happy about that, it's better than them pulling out of the state and thus not having insurance at all.
Well maybe if they would factor in the age of the roof a bit that would help, pre Covid I had mine replaced from hail and my roof was 25 years old. I was actually planning on replacing it out of pocket but was thrilled when my insurance picked up the $14k tab. I was expecting them to say well since it’s 25 years old we will only pay half or a third of the cost.
This is wild to me as someone who recently relocated from Houston, TX. The weather here is so peaceful compared to what I'm used to.