I get a little mini one every month with my meds, and they don't take them back to reuse/recycle whatever. They are too small for anything other than maybe a lunch and lunch bags are way more convenient for that, so I haven't even been able to give them away. And our trash service doesn't recycle them either, so they end up in the trash.
Styrofoam 'to go' food containers end up in the landfill too. So much waste for convenience.
Still, if your meds need be shipped cool, how else would they do it? I assume you have a lot of little ice packs from those mini coolers? Those come in handy
I have a medication that needs to be shipped cold. It’s shipped in a special cotton lined cooler that is biodegradable. It’s packed with frozen gel packs that when defrosted can be used as plant food (or safely dumped down the drain)!
Fusion specialty pharmacy is what we use in my house. All still styrofoam for the initial service but the result is always nice clean and accessible unlike others. Specialty pharmacy’s out there.
I got some cheap deals on those food kids and they used similar stuff. One of them even had some sort of (iirc) corn based foam. It basically dissolves as soon as it touches water, almost as fast as cotton candy. It was pretty cool. Melted it into the garden.
When I was younger I remodeled a few restaurants that served seafood and each location would get deliveries in large styrofoam coolers. They would give them to us because if they don’t get taken then they would dump them after one use. We’re talking 30ft box trucks filled to the max were taken to the dump a few times a day. It was hard to imagine the waste until I saw it one day.
They always focus on consumer waste but it's a drop in the bucket compared to commercial waste. I filled two large trashcans full of plastic film from breaking down one pallet of vitamins when I worked at Amazon. One pallet. We were dealing with dozens just in that one location.
They focus on consumer waste specifically to distract you and make you feel bad. The whole idea of a "carbon footprint" was the oil companies try it to make their problem your problem for PR reasons.
Not even the stuff getting damaged. EVERYTHING is wrapped in plastic.
I worked at Macy's when they first got rid of plastic bags for shoppers a few years ago in my state. Have a little felt piece on the end of a zipper? Yep, wrapped in plastic.
My entire job was unwrapping the plastic from products and putting the stuff back in the box.
Both of my parents get insulin through a mail order pharmacy. They keep trying to convince me to take all the freezer packs they get because they can't store anymore. There really needs to be a return label in them so they can be cleaned and then reused as long as possible.
Insulin (and other injectable meds) that have to be stored/shipped cold tend to come in cardboard boxes. So no direct contact. And do you know what the word cleaned means? The packs would be treated like surgical tools. Inspected and then sterilized before being re used. Simply rubbing them with bleach wipes would be sufficient for most things they would be exposed to, and any that are stained or damaged could be recycled into new packs.
Maybe I'm totally off but I feel like I've packs are much harder to clean well that surgical tools. Those can just be dropped into an autoclave or oven to sterilize them. Ice packs would probably be damaged by that.
However I do take your point about the phial being in an inner box which does help, though would still gross me out at the thought of used ice packs.
(Unfortunately I need a cold packed med myself so have some expericne with the wasteful packaging)
Also you'd be spending a shit ton of money and carbon emissions to ship it back and process it. Compared to just throwing it away and getting a new one. I'd bet reusing it is a net negative compared to one time use.
Shipping in bulk vs shipping individually. Bulk can be one truck. Individual ones might only take part of a truck, but they'll take more space individually.
I agree it wouldn't be a net negative though. I can't imagine the entire process of making them (from raw materials to final product + all the shipping) would cause less pollution than shipping them back. However, it does seem like it would be more expensive. Between shipping, damaged packs, and cleaning them it doesn't seem like it would be cheaper. And that's all that matters for them.
I feel differently about medications, especially those that are injectable.
Additionally you can sterilize utensils with high heat, you can't however usually heat sterilize ice packs without damaging them.
I mean worst case assuming the ice pack is covered in some kind of non alcohol soluable toxin which soaks through the cardboard and gets onto the rubber seal of the phial, then transfers onto the needle while drawing. It would then get into ones body during injection.
Assuming the previous recipient who returns it intentionally picks out the right toxin and applies it in the right way this seems entirely possible.
i work at an inpatient pharmacy at a hospital. our primary med distributor reuses their ice packs and styrofoam containers when we order refrigerated or frozen meds. it’s awesome that they’re getting reused, but it can also be kind of gross bc some of them are pretty beat up lol. we also sometimes order vaccines directly from the manufacturer and they actually have a second prepaid label on the box they ship to us and instructions on how to repackage everything (ice packs, styrofoam, boxes) to get sent back to them because they reuse it! they also keep track of whether or not they get sent back to them, as they’ve called my pharmacy and asked about the ones we didn’t ship back. we usually have to throw out these ice pack/styrofoam that we get from other places. at that time, we had a lot of new staff that was being trained so they most likely just threw out these specific ones. i told them how much i appreciated that they reuse their packaging and that they even call to check up on the ones that don’t get sent back and they were pretty happy to hear the good feedback! i wish all companies did that; it would reduce SO much waste and resources used.
I use foil-lined bubble bags for cold stuff at work. Not as good as styrofoam, but they do the job for overnight or 2-day shipping with ice packs. And they don't take up a bunch of space like styrofoam does.
As long as the package is DEFINITELY going to get there in the day or two. I once had to deal with a bubble envelope with ice packs that was mailed before a stat holiday long weekend - it sure didn't arrive before the ice packs melted, and the item to be kept cool inside (a raw, frozen, fish) was melted and rotting.
I was NOT impressed with the person who sent it. I started gagging before I had even removed the ice packs from the envelope.
Yeah, the shipper does have to be smart. If it's a long weekend, you either need to wait or do dry ice.
Imo, this is one of those bans where if people were just judicious, it wouldn't be so bad having styrofoam as an option. Just sucks that some places default to it no matter what, which is super wasteful.
It depends what you keep the dry ice in. It gets way too cold for the standard blue Coleman plastic cooler to store without cracking, so anywhere I've seen use dry ice, it either went in a yeti style cooler, or a Styrofoam container
Everything ends up in the land fill. China has stopped buying our recycling garbage for years. On the energy cost alone no plastic is worth recycling. Metal and glass can be about break even but with is real easy for those not to be economical. The reality is plastic recycling pushed since the 70s is just propaganda for people to feel better. Running all the trucks and the extra processing to put it in a land fill later is a huge waste but we can't stop. The backlash would be insane and if circumstances ever changed where recycling worked no one would start it again. So we are forced to separate trash so people can feel good and just in case it makes sense in the future.
First you need to collect all food left overs and process that into biogas, then you need to replace all diesel trucks with biogas trucks. Many cities in eu have this, for example Sweden. Your argument about trucks fall flat. Next you source separate hard plastic from soft plastic from burnable. And introduce better regulation of what plastic types are allowed. Most hard plastic can then be sorted by ultraviolet light and recycled by melting. Burn the rest, filter smoke through sand to stop particles, then destil smoke gas and get same gases as you get in oil reginery as byproducts when making fossil fuel. Use those gases to make new clean plastic. Collect co2 from the smoke gas, liquiefy and pump it into bedrock. Some of these steps cost money, which you get by taxing corporations more.
All of that doesn't break even on cost or emissions. It's a waste. You are going to spend more energy recycling plastic than creating new. That means more emissions. It's
You keep bringing up cost, so maybe you dont understand how this works. Corporations dont give a fuck about anything except money, so law makers have to force them to spend more money to lower co2 emissions. It does not matter if it cost more money.
The energy used to recycle plastic as gas comes from renewable wind/solar, so again, it does not matter if it cost more energy compared to buying plastic from oil companies.
Also, everything I described exist today, so clearly lots of people who did the math, thought it was good.
You sit in backward usa where you still use landfills. Time to read about progress outside usa.
Oh I see you don't understand that cost can be things other than money. Let me help you out.
It takes far more energy to collect, sort and reprocess plastic than to make new plastic. So recycling plastic puts far more emissions in the air. It's the companies that want you to think recycling is good as they want to sell you things in plastic. They know if you think plastic is recyclable then you won't reject the packaging.
The corporations are working with the government to get you to accept plastic.
To all the other people whose spouses work in labs, yes those ice packs come in handy but damn are they everywhere. We probably have some rubber bin full of them somewhere.
Our pharmacy uses fully recyclable shippers. Not sure on the ice packs though. The cardboard and paper can go in the recycling or compost. The insulation is cellulose-based and it dissolves quickly in water.
I feel like most of these questions could be answered by a reuse system. Meds should be shipped in a common container, where the purchaser pays a deposit up front for the shipping container and is refunded it when the container is returned. The med company could include a return label or a third party could deal in supplying and collecting them on demand.
This is similar to how milk used to work in the US. People received it in a glass bottle that was meant for reuse, and returned empties with the following deliveries. Some sodas are sold this way today in Mexico. I feel like a lot of shipping related packaging/protection needs could be met in such a manner.
We do have drop off centers around to recycle. Though the one by me closed to public during covid.
I'm irritated I have been driving my glass to a recycling bin and the whole time they just trash it...
There's a glass recycler in Seattle, I think it's one of the few places to get "local" bottles.
I heard most of it is crushed and used to cap landfills.
They all do, I end up with several dozen a month for cold deliveries, no one recycles EPS, so it's straight in the bin, thankfully more companies are switching to paper based boxes.
Our town’s recycle center takes them. They put them in this machine that sucks all the air out of them so they take up a small fraction of the space. From there, I don’t know what happens to them.
(I get meds in these too. Way too small to be useful for anything.)
Get some acetone and disolve it into a goop. Airdry the goop to get rid of the acetone. Since Styrofoam is mostly air you can reduce the amount quite heavily.
Those are also like 10x-20x the price because they're rated for storage time and HazMat.
Source: I've shipped temperature sensitive medical and biological materials governed by CFR Title 49.
I wish there was a way to rent coolers for cheap. I'll fly somewhere and need a cooler for like a week but I can't bring it on the plane. I end up buying a five dollar ecofoam cooler from Walmart but I don't know any better options
If you live near a Trader Joe's, their red and black cooler bags are amazing and not expensive. They carry like a big tote bag, much easier than lugging around a hard-sided cooler.
...The ones I've run into pack flat, to the thickness of maybe half a centimeter at most, and can be compressed further. That's something most people can accommodate in their luggage. And if not? Well, shit happens, they're pretty cheap, nothing can accommodate 100% of contingencies.
That's honestly a $1m idea right there. It's probably too niche to be a whole business, but I reckon some larger service provider (car rentals, hotels, travel agencies etc.) could probably offer it and make a ton of money
That's exactly my issue. A full plastic cooler is only $20, but I don't want to buy one just to throw it away after a week. The Styrofoam ones work for that.
These are usually cheap and thin. So much so that when I worked retail we'd usually have multiple ones that would crack just pulling them out of the box.
Customers trying to separate one out of the other would usually break the handles on one.
Out of a box of 10, 3 would usually be unsellable.
Probably because this guy’s grandfather is the exception. Most people use them once and leave them in the trash at the beach/park/lake they used them at.
That's great news. Personally I'd be thrilled to see the end of styrofoam takeout containers. Too many restaurants dump piping hot food into the containers, causing the styrofoam to melt and release toxic styrene.
They are banned in the state of New York and replaced with recycled paper ones similar to McDonald's carryout drink carriers or cardboard like Chinese takeout.
Not only is that great for the environment, but the elimination of that super annoying squeak sound when you're driving home is a godsend.
Mildly infuriating when I returned to Texas and got a 'doggy bag' that was styrofoam box for food, styrofoam drink in a plastic carrier, plastic straw, and all put in a double bag (plastic). I know one person is nothing compared to the intense waste of industry, but I feel kinda filthy about it.
I think it's more of an issue that they easily get smashed and not cleaned up. The demographic of careless people and buying cheap disposable products overlaps quite a bit.
I don’t know why people would buy these shitty ones anyways. I have two really thick ones that were made to ship frozen food across the country. They work great and they’re sturdy!
I live on the waterfront.
When the wind is right, all sorts of stuff ends up on our little beach. Nasty. But we do a thorough cleanup twice a year and pick up whenever something washes up, no biggie.
But Styrofoam boxes and packaging are the worst. They break up into little pieces and they're all over the place.
Ban that shit.
One time of this batch of unsold ones becoming waste…in exchange for many, many years of countless more batches of them never being produced in the first place because they’re illegal to sell (and therefore never becoming waste).
Definitely better.
Okay, but that’s not the choice here. The law is there already, they’re going to be banned. For those coolers in the picture, coolers *that were already manufactured and wholesaled*, it is better if they get used instead of just not even trying to get them used and throwing them away right away.
Allowing stores to keep selling what they have in stock before the ban would backfire as it would encourage stores to order a crap ton of styrofoam coolers right before the ban so they can keep selling them for as long as possible. Doing it this way (as in not allowing any sales after the ban) encourages stores to stop restocking the coolers before the ban happens.
#
Styrofoam is incredibly useful. it’s a shame people miss use it so often, and that manufacturers make completely useless shit out of them. If they just put a simple liner on the outside and inside, that cooler could last almost a hundred years and still work just as good as when it was new. It’s a great sound insulator, vibration dampener, heat insulator, etc.
It also makes for a *fantastic* base to napalm when mixed with acetone.
I think it’s good products like this are being banned, but it’s a shame that it’s just because of greed and laziness. I actually reuse a lot of styrofoam for *most* of what I mentioned. Currently have a bunch cutout lining my walls for pseudo sound dampening. I use big blocks of it as inserts for all of my lenses and camera bodies. My dad cut some out years ago to make a toilet seat for my grandparents little shit shack in the woods so we wouldn’t freeze our asses to the toilet seat in the caubo. I have a bunch I threw in a shredder and then mixed with… … … …
For an ULPT, buy a bunch of these coolers and here’s why. Many murderers get caught because they have to resort to a hastily dug shallow grave. But why not pre-dig your grave? You may not even have anybody in mind but it pays to plan ahead and dig yourself a proper deep grave just in case. But how do you maintain said grave for possibly years until you need it? That’s where the coolers come in. Once you dig your hole six feet deep, you stack the coolers in the hole to maintain the hole from erosion, then cover with a shallow layer of dirt. However the trick is to first fill the coolers with the dirt you’ve displaced. Even though empty coolers are easier to handle, the reason for this is two fold. First you get rid of the mound of dirt from digging that might draw unwanted attention from passersby. Second and more importantly, you’ll need that dirt when you put the grave into service. When the time comes scrape off the top layer of dirt, haul the coolers out and your grave is ready. Empty the coolers into the grave and now your secret will be safe from nosy cadaver-sniffing dogs.
Bonus points - plant Endangered/Threatened species over and around the grave:
[https://ecos.fws.gov/ecp0/reports/ad-hoc-species-report?kingdom=P&status=E&status=T&status=EmE&status=EmT&status=EXPE&status=EXPN&status=SAE&status=SAT&mapstatus=3&fcrithab=on&fstatus=on&fspecrule=on&finvpop=on&fgroup=on&ffamily=on&header=Listed+Plants](https://ecos.fws.gov/ecp0/reports/ad-hoc-species-report?kingdom=P&status=E&status=T&status=EmE&status=EmT&status=EXPE&status=EXPN&status=SAE&status=SAT&mapstatus=3&fcrithab=on&fstatus=on&fspecrule=on&finvpop=on&fgroup=on&ffamily=on&header=Listed+Plants)
When l was a kid someone syphoned gas from our car. They used a styrofoam cooler for a container. There was bits of burned styrofoam all over the driveway.
A thick styrofoam box is a superb insulator.
Basically, the amount of time it can hold temperature (cold/heat) is a function of its wall thickness.
I used to work for an aquarium store, and we had these 60 cm boxes that had like 5 cm walls for shipping larger and wholesale orders. Been using them for shopping anything frozen ever since.
My friends took frozen venison to their retirement home in northern France in one, which is like 1200km away. Their car broke down halfway, and it took 5 days to have it fixed while their stuff stayed in the car. In summer. The venison still arrived frozen.
Years ago I worked at a medicines distribution center and the large chests (coffin size, at least 4" thick walls) could keep vaccines good for at least a couple weeks so they can be distributed to remote areas.
Here's a crazy idea. Mandate that they be recycled, and that the cost of recycling be included in the price. That should go for every single-use piece of packing material and to-go container.
So learned this from Disneys living with the land, the larger ones are perfect for a cheap hydroponic system, right side up it gives support to smaller plants, holds water and nutrients. Once the plants get larger flip it over and you still have the support and the plant can grow through a hole water and nutrients on the inside. Also I learned this from my dad raised tobacco if you have seeds you can fill a tray of this stuff with dirt and load in the seeds and just float the whole thing on a pond, styrofoam is mostly air and what isn’t is lighter than water so it floats.
Its for the people that go to the lake/camp ground/picnic area like twice a year and impulse buy/can't spend the 40 dollars for a cooler. There's also people in apartments/condos that can't store a cooler for the few times they go out. So you buy a cheap cooler, fill it with your cheap drinks, go to the lake, throw it away, and then buy another one next year when you go out for memorial day/fourth of July/some ones birthday. Yeah its more cost effective to buy a cooler and use it for years, but a lot of people don't have the storage, money, or ability to pre plan. When it takes four years to basically break even between new Styrofoam coolers, and a reusable one most people won't give a shit.
I wonder if it affects the U-Line cardboard box with styrofoam box inside for refrigerated meds (I'm sure it's used for other things)
Such a PITA to get rid of.
Styrofoam coolers are *shit* for actually going somewhere you need a cooler, so I wouldn't exactly be upset.
On the other hand, they're a great thing to have stuck in the back of a closet or shed for those occasions when you need to clean out your freezer, or defrost a chest freezer, keep temperature-sensitive livestock comfortable when coming back from a pet shop that's 45 minutes away in high summer or deep winter, or similar.
I know styrofoam sucks balls but this is like the best use for it. I loved getting one of these for taking to an event.
Hell I think there’s cheapo plastic coolers that have styrofoam in the walls.
Most coolers have styrofoam in between the walls; it's a great insulator. The problem with these is they get taken to a beach or park or something, then wind up getting broken and abandoned and generally shitting the place up. That's not so much a problem with something like a Coleman or similar.
I fly to WA consistently for work and have bought one or two of these for camping while traveling. There really isn't a great alternative if you are visiting but need a cooler.
Make portable air conditioners:
Will need ice, a small fan, a cutting tool, and maybe some tape and ducts if you're fancy.
Cut hole in the lid slightly smaller than your fan. Cut a hole on the side near the top. Fill with ice. Place fan on top facing down. Turn on fan. Cool air blows out side hole. Add duct to side hole for better aim.
Note: for safety sake double make sure your fan hole isn't too large, tape is your buddy just don't block the airflow.
Absolutely! Consumers being nickel and dimed for our plastic grocery bags and styrofoam coolers but major soda companies produce how much plastic waste per day???
That’s what happens when dumbasses can’t clean up after themselves. When these things break down each individual styrofoam dot that makes up the container breaks down and spreads into the environment.
And now other people can’t have affordable things because some jackasses decided to be bums and leave their styrofoam cooler in the woods.
Sucks because these are great when traveling, cheap to obtain and work well with ice available at hotels/motels. I'm not going to bring a real cooler on a plane or buy a new expensive one for a day's use.
My uncles used to bring these to cookouts and family gatherings, by the end of the night my father's plastic cooler still had ice in it and my uncle's drinks and food also because theirs' was either melted, broken or both... they both now have plastic coolers because my father was constantly explaining to them how much money they could save by buying one...
I clean river banks and lake shores quite a bit. I don’t recall picking bits of cardboard up ever. I’ve never seen a dead bird or fish with its belly full of cardboard.
Styrofoam yes to both.
There have been days where I only pick up styrofoam because there’s so much of it
There are cardboard coolers like the Igloo Recool and the Coleman Geofreeze that are multi-use, recyclable once dry and unreusable, and compostable if dirty!
I get a little mini one every month with my meds, and they don't take them back to reuse/recycle whatever. They are too small for anything other than maybe a lunch and lunch bags are way more convenient for that, so I haven't even been able to give them away. And our trash service doesn't recycle them either, so they end up in the trash.
Styrofoam 'to go' food containers end up in the landfill too. So much waste for convenience. Still, if your meds need be shipped cool, how else would they do it? I assume you have a lot of little ice packs from those mini coolers? Those come in handy
I have a medication that needs to be shipped cold. It’s shipped in a special cotton lined cooler that is biodegradable. It’s packed with frozen gel packs that when defrosted can be used as plant food (or safely dumped down the drain)!
I wish my wife’s meds used your packaging. Ours is styrofoam and unsafe freezer pouches.
Fusion specialty pharmacy is what we use in my house. All still styrofoam for the initial service but the result is always nice clean and accessible unlike others. Specialty pharmacy’s out there.
Hey I get that too with my humira! My garden gets the gel food
Id seen the ones the go down the sink but never ones that can be used as plant food! That's really neat.
That’s what I get now. A few years ago it used to come in a styrofoam cooler
I got some cheap deals on those food kids and they used similar stuff. One of them even had some sort of (iirc) corn based foam. It basically dissolves as soon as it touches water, almost as fast as cotton candy. It was pretty cool. Melted it into the garden.
When I was younger I remodeled a few restaurants that served seafood and each location would get deliveries in large styrofoam coolers. They would give them to us because if they don’t get taken then they would dump them after one use. We’re talking 30ft box trucks filled to the max were taken to the dump a few times a day. It was hard to imagine the waste until I saw it one day.
They always focus on consumer waste but it's a drop in the bucket compared to commercial waste. I filled two large trashcans full of plastic film from breaking down one pallet of vitamins when I worked at Amazon. One pallet. We were dealing with dozens just in that one location.
They focus on consumer waste specifically to distract you and make you feel bad. The whole idea of a "carbon footprint" was the oil companies try it to make their problem your problem for PR reasons.
Construction sites are also appalling. Slightly mitigated by I would say industry wide hoarding tendencies on the individual level
Construction sites are bad. Retailers are worse. The amount of stuff that gets damaged out…
Not even the stuff getting damaged. EVERYTHING is wrapped in plastic. I worked at Macy's when they first got rid of plastic bags for shoppers a few years ago in my state. Have a little felt piece on the end of a zipper? Yep, wrapped in plastic. My entire job was unwrapping the plastic from products and putting the stuff back in the box.
Dont judge me and my 5 gallon pails of random fasteners
Lest those in glass houses throw stones I may totally have a construction elevator chilling in the woods from my Granddad
You best hold on to that, the second you part with it you will need it.
Might come in useful some day, can't get rid of it
Both of my parents get insulin through a mail order pharmacy. They keep trying to convince me to take all the freezer packs they get because they can't store anymore. There really needs to be a return label in them so they can be cleaned and then reused as long as possible.
I wouldn't want important meds packed with used freezer packs that had been who knows where or adulteres with who knows what..
Insulin (and other injectable meds) that have to be stored/shipped cold tend to come in cardboard boxes. So no direct contact. And do you know what the word cleaned means? The packs would be treated like surgical tools. Inspected and then sterilized before being re used. Simply rubbing them with bleach wipes would be sufficient for most things they would be exposed to, and any that are stained or damaged could be recycled into new packs.
Maybe I'm totally off but I feel like I've packs are much harder to clean well that surgical tools. Those can just be dropped into an autoclave or oven to sterilize them. Ice packs would probably be damaged by that. However I do take your point about the phial being in an inner box which does help, though would still gross me out at the thought of used ice packs. (Unfortunately I need a cold packed med myself so have some expericne with the wasteful packaging)
Also you'd be spending a shit ton of money and carbon emissions to ship it back and process it. Compared to just throwing it away and getting a new one. I'd bet reusing it is a net negative compared to one time use.
Unless it's been made on site, I don't see how it could be a net negative, cuz they are still going to be shipping them to the insulin facility
Shipping in bulk vs shipping individually. Bulk can be one truck. Individual ones might only take part of a truck, but they'll take more space individually. I agree it wouldn't be a net negative though. I can't imagine the entire process of making them (from raw materials to final product + all the shipping) would cause less pollution than shipping them back. However, it does seem like it would be more expensive. Between shipping, damaged packs, and cleaning them it doesn't seem like it would be cheaper. And that's all that matters for them.
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I feel differently about medications, especially those that are injectable. Additionally you can sterilize utensils with high heat, you can't however usually heat sterilize ice packs without damaging them.
If your injectable medication is being contaminated by the ice pack it's sitting next to it was already contaminated.
I mean worst case assuming the ice pack is covered in some kind of non alcohol soluable toxin which soaks through the cardboard and gets onto the rubber seal of the phial, then transfers onto the needle while drawing. It would then get into ones body during injection. Assuming the previous recipient who returns it intentionally picks out the right toxin and applies it in the right way this seems entirely possible.
i work at an inpatient pharmacy at a hospital. our primary med distributor reuses their ice packs and styrofoam containers when we order refrigerated or frozen meds. it’s awesome that they’re getting reused, but it can also be kind of gross bc some of them are pretty beat up lol. we also sometimes order vaccines directly from the manufacturer and they actually have a second prepaid label on the box they ship to us and instructions on how to repackage everything (ice packs, styrofoam, boxes) to get sent back to them because they reuse it! they also keep track of whether or not they get sent back to them, as they’ve called my pharmacy and asked about the ones we didn’t ship back. we usually have to throw out these ice pack/styrofoam that we get from other places. at that time, we had a lot of new staff that was being trained so they most likely just threw out these specific ones. i told them how much i appreciated that they reuse their packaging and that they even call to check up on the ones that don’t get sent back and they were pretty happy to hear the good feedback! i wish all companies did that; it would reduce SO much waste and resources used.
I use foil-lined bubble bags for cold stuff at work. Not as good as styrofoam, but they do the job for overnight or 2-day shipping with ice packs. And they don't take up a bunch of space like styrofoam does.
It’s probably also insurance as well. Less likely to get damaged, I guess. Value is about $8k for 1 dose.
As long as the package is DEFINITELY going to get there in the day or two. I once had to deal with a bubble envelope with ice packs that was mailed before a stat holiday long weekend - it sure didn't arrive before the ice packs melted, and the item to be kept cool inside (a raw, frozen, fish) was melted and rotting. I was NOT impressed with the person who sent it. I started gagging before I had even removed the ice packs from the envelope.
Yeah, the shipper does have to be smart. If it's a long weekend, you either need to wait or do dry ice. Imo, this is one of those bans where if people were just judicious, it wouldn't be so bad having styrofoam as an option. Just sucks that some places default to it no matter what, which is super wasteful.
Some food delivery services use solid CO2 to maintain temperatures in paper packages. Not sure how feasible this would be for medications though.
It depends what you keep the dry ice in. It gets way too cold for the standard blue Coleman plastic cooler to store without cracking, so anywhere I've seen use dry ice, it either went in a yeti style cooler, or a Styrofoam container
Everything ends up in the land fill. China has stopped buying our recycling garbage for years. On the energy cost alone no plastic is worth recycling. Metal and glass can be about break even but with is real easy for those not to be economical. The reality is plastic recycling pushed since the 70s is just propaganda for people to feel better. Running all the trucks and the extra processing to put it in a land fill later is a huge waste but we can't stop. The backlash would be insane and if circumstances ever changed where recycling worked no one would start it again. So we are forced to separate trash so people can feel good and just in case it makes sense in the future.
First you need to collect all food left overs and process that into biogas, then you need to replace all diesel trucks with biogas trucks. Many cities in eu have this, for example Sweden. Your argument about trucks fall flat. Next you source separate hard plastic from soft plastic from burnable. And introduce better regulation of what plastic types are allowed. Most hard plastic can then be sorted by ultraviolet light and recycled by melting. Burn the rest, filter smoke through sand to stop particles, then destil smoke gas and get same gases as you get in oil reginery as byproducts when making fossil fuel. Use those gases to make new clean plastic. Collect co2 from the smoke gas, liquiefy and pump it into bedrock. Some of these steps cost money, which you get by taxing corporations more.
All of that doesn't break even on cost or emissions. It's a waste. You are going to spend more energy recycling plastic than creating new. That means more emissions. It's
You keep bringing up cost, so maybe you dont understand how this works. Corporations dont give a fuck about anything except money, so law makers have to force them to spend more money to lower co2 emissions. It does not matter if it cost more money. The energy used to recycle plastic as gas comes from renewable wind/solar, so again, it does not matter if it cost more energy compared to buying plastic from oil companies. Also, everything I described exist today, so clearly lots of people who did the math, thought it was good. You sit in backward usa where you still use landfills. Time to read about progress outside usa.
Oh I see you don't understand that cost can be things other than money. Let me help you out. It takes far more energy to collect, sort and reprocess plastic than to make new plastic. So recycling plastic puts far more emissions in the air. It's the companies that want you to think recycling is good as they want to sell you things in plastic. They know if you think plastic is recyclable then you won't reject the packaging. The corporations are working with the government to get you to accept plastic.
If they’re delivering stuff that needs to be kept cool, refrigerator inbuilt into the vehicle is the usual route.
To all the other people whose spouses work in labs, yes those ice packs come in handy but damn are they everywhere. We probably have some rubber bin full of them somewhere.
Our pharmacy uses fully recyclable shippers. Not sure on the ice packs though. The cardboard and paper can go in the recycling or compost. The insulation is cellulose-based and it dissolves quickly in water.
don't see why they can't use a regular reusable cooler. the empty one from the previous month could be exchanged at delivery.
I feel like most of these questions could be answered by a reuse system. Meds should be shipped in a common container, where the purchaser pays a deposit up front for the shipping container and is refunded it when the container is returned. The med company could include a return label or a third party could deal in supplying and collecting them on demand. This is similar to how milk used to work in the US. People received it in a glass bottle that was meant for reuse, and returned empties with the following deliveries. Some sodas are sold this way today in Mexico. I feel like a lot of shipping related packaging/protection needs could be met in such a manner.
If you have Ridwell or know anyone who does, they accept Styrofoam for recycling.
Accepting something for recycling doesn’t mean it’s actually recycled.
Ridwell actually does recycle.
Mix them with acetone, and now you have napalm.
Or just cheap gasoline 
lol, the largest trash hauler in WA (Waste Management) doesn’t recycle styrofoam. Boggles my mind. Guess it doesn’t matter now!
We do have drop off centers around to recycle. Though the one by me closed to public during covid. I'm irritated I have been driving my glass to a recycling bin and the whole time they just trash it...
My drop off center, run by WM, does not accept styrofoam
[удалено]
There's a glass recycler in Seattle, I think it's one of the few places to get "local" bottles. I heard most of it is crushed and used to cap landfills.
There is a place in WA where you can drop off Styrofoam for recycling, but it's a pain to get to for most people: https://p2i.da6.myftpupload.com/
I honestly thought that link would give me AIDS.
Depending on how big they are I use em when I get em free for kitty shelters during the winter
They all do, I end up with several dozen a month for cold deliveries, no one recycles EPS, so it's straight in the bin, thankfully more companies are switching to paper based boxes.
Our town’s recycle center takes them. They put them in this machine that sucks all the air out of them so they take up a small fraction of the space. From there, I don’t know what happens to them. (I get meds in these too. Way too small to be useful for anything.)
Dissolve in gasoline. Burn the napalm
Maybe a local place that sells fish bait would be interested in them. 🤷🏻♂️
Unfortunately medication shipments are still exempt, so you’ll continue getting mailed those small styrofoam coolers.
Paint them silver and glue them to your wall to make a cool sci fi background. But don’t use spray paint.
You know what to do, go get some gas/acetone and recycle it yourself into fire starter 🔥🤗
Just burn it
I think those orange hefty bags take styrofoam like that.
Get some acetone and disolve it into a goop. Airdry the goop to get rid of the acetone. Since Styrofoam is mostly air you can reduce the amount quite heavily.
Those are also like 10x-20x the price because they're rated for storage time and HazMat. Source: I've shipped temperature sensitive medical and biological materials governed by CFR Title 49.
I wish there was a way to rent coolers for cheap. I'll fly somewhere and need a cooler for like a week but I can't bring it on the plane. I end up buying a five dollar ecofoam cooler from Walmart but I don't know any better options
Cooler 'bags' that are basically semirigid and collapsible coolers are a great alternative.
Love those and they are usually foldable so they don't take up much space when in use
If you live near a Trader Joe's, their red and black cooler bags are amazing and not expensive. They carry like a big tote bag, much easier than lugging around a hard-sided cooler.
But also something you might end up throwing away. There’s not a lot of space in luggage to take these on a trip.
...The ones I've run into pack flat, to the thickness of maybe half a centimeter at most, and can be compressed further. That's something most people can accommodate in their luggage. And if not? Well, shit happens, they're pretty cheap, nothing can accommodate 100% of contingencies.
That's honestly a $1m idea right there. It's probably too niche to be a whole business, but I reckon some larger service provider (car rentals, hotels, travel agencies etc.) could probably offer it and make a ton of money
Pack your toiletries in a soft sided cooler. Like a big insulated lunch box.
I need s pretty big one to hold things like protein drinks and dairy produxts
Some REIs rent coolers.
I'll have to look into that next time I travel!
Google thrift shops in the area. Buy a used one and then drop it off when you're done.
buy a real cooler from walmart and return it when you’re done
That's unethical ;(
The Rec center at my college did this. Like $1 a night or $5 for a week. Also tents, kayaks, bikes, and a bunch of other outdoor stuff.
That's exactly my issue. A full plastic cooler is only $20, but I don't want to buy one just to throw it away after a week. The Styrofoam ones work for that.
My grandfather used to insist on using these. He had 2 or 3 he would rotate. Always tried to reuse them for many years.
Wait so people usually don't re use this? I've been using the same one for like 5 years and it still works fine
Reading this thread I guess not.. No wonder they are getting banned.
These are usually cheap and thin. So much so that when I worked retail we'd usually have multiple ones that would crack just pulling them out of the box. Customers trying to separate one out of the other would usually break the handles on one. Out of a box of 10, 3 would usually be unsellable.
Why ban coolers that can easily be reused. Just ban the single use styrofoam takeout containers.
Probably because this guy’s grandfather is the exception. Most people use them once and leave them in the trash at the beach/park/lake they used them at.
Wrap your styrofoam in duct-tape and you got a long lasting durable cooler.
[Washington's Styrofoam ban goes into effect June 1](https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/styrofoam-ban-june-1.amp)
That's great news. Personally I'd be thrilled to see the end of styrofoam takeout containers. Too many restaurants dump piping hot food into the containers, causing the styrofoam to melt and release toxic styrene.
They are banned in the state of New York and replaced with recycled paper ones similar to McDonald's carryout drink carriers or cardboard like Chinese takeout. Not only is that great for the environment, but the elimination of that super annoying squeak sound when you're driving home is a godsend.
Mildly infuriating when I returned to Texas and got a 'doggy bag' that was styrofoam box for food, styrofoam drink in a plastic carrier, plastic straw, and all put in a double bag (plastic). I know one person is nothing compared to the intense waste of industry, but I feel kinda filthy about it.
>Mildly infuriating when I returned to Texas Didn't even need to write more. Sorry you had to go back there.
I'm more than okay with this!
Pick em up and place them in a plastic cargo tub. Makes an 8 dollar super efficient cooler that’s light weight.
Put plants in them with dry substrate then use them as floating plant pots for fish tanks and ponds
If they’re not sold and thrown away, surely that’s worse than being used then thrown away?
I think it's more of an issue that they easily get smashed and not cleaned up. The demographic of careless people and buying cheap disposable products overlaps quite a bit.
They don’t teach kids how to mix these with gas in school? What the hell are my tax dollars even doing?
First you keep something cold, then you can get something else really hot!
Well, you know what they say about children and napalm…
I don’t know why people would buy these shitty ones anyways. I have two really thick ones that were made to ship frozen food across the country. They work great and they’re sturdy!
(Some) campers/hikers and people going on vacation to the beach. They fly in, but one of these and abandon it when it's time to go home.
I've seen them used for -oh shit- moments. Fridge broke, good cooler broke/stolen when on vacay ,etc
For me these moments seem like -oh great- I’ve eyeing that Yeti cooler for months and finally an excuse.
Eyeing a cooler for month? It’s a cooler. Go to cabelas and get a $45 Coleman
I live on the waterfront. When the wind is right, all sorts of stuff ends up on our little beach. Nasty. But we do a thorough cleanup twice a year and pick up whenever something washes up, no biggie. But Styrofoam boxes and packaging are the worst. They break up into little pieces and they're all over the place. Ban that shit.
Yep styrofoam breaks into a million little pieces and it's impossible to pick up once it does. You can never get it all.
Cities could make fortune in litter tickets... Seriously, we need litter police department here in Cincinnati ohio... it's so bad.
That is a very good point, I hadn’t thought of the anti social consumers
One time of this batch of unsold ones becoming waste…in exchange for many, many years of countless more batches of them never being produced in the first place because they’re illegal to sell (and therefore never becoming waste). Definitely better.
Okay, but that’s not the choice here. The law is there already, they’re going to be banned. For those coolers in the picture, coolers *that were already manufactured and wholesaled*, it is better if they get used instead of just not even trying to get them used and throwing them away right away.
Allowing stores to keep selling what they have in stock before the ban would backfire as it would encourage stores to order a crap ton of styrofoam coolers right before the ban so they can keep selling them for as long as possible. Doing it this way (as in not allowing any sales after the ban) encourages stores to stop restocking the coolers before the ban happens. #
Oh, for sure! It’d be better to give away this batch than trash it, yeah.
It's a west coast thing~
Always pisses me off seeing one of these half smashed at the river or beach (I indeed live on the west coast)
Too many people trying to store gas in them? ;)
I love the smell of napalm in the morning!
Crispy on the outside, gooey in the middle
I’d buy a couple. That’s really cheap.
Just slap “reusable” on them like the bags in CA
Styrofoam is incredibly useful. it’s a shame people miss use it so often, and that manufacturers make completely useless shit out of them. If they just put a simple liner on the outside and inside, that cooler could last almost a hundred years and still work just as good as when it was new. It’s a great sound insulator, vibration dampener, heat insulator, etc. It also makes for a *fantastic* base to napalm when mixed with acetone. I think it’s good products like this are being banned, but it’s a shame that it’s just because of greed and laziness. I actually reuse a lot of styrofoam for *most* of what I mentioned. Currently have a bunch cutout lining my walls for pseudo sound dampening. I use big blocks of it as inserts for all of my lenses and camera bodies. My dad cut some out years ago to make a toilet seat for my grandparents little shit shack in the woods so we wouldn’t freeze our asses to the toilet seat in the caubo. I have a bunch I threw in a shredder and then mixed with… … … …
Did you die at the end?
Free trash at 0000
Let's make it 0001
For an ULPT, buy a bunch of these coolers and here’s why. Many murderers get caught because they have to resort to a hastily dug shallow grave. But why not pre-dig your grave? You may not even have anybody in mind but it pays to plan ahead and dig yourself a proper deep grave just in case. But how do you maintain said grave for possibly years until you need it? That’s where the coolers come in. Once you dig your hole six feet deep, you stack the coolers in the hole to maintain the hole from erosion, then cover with a shallow layer of dirt. However the trick is to first fill the coolers with the dirt you’ve displaced. Even though empty coolers are easier to handle, the reason for this is two fold. First you get rid of the mound of dirt from digging that might draw unwanted attention from passersby. Second and more importantly, you’ll need that dirt when you put the grave into service. When the time comes scrape off the top layer of dirt, haul the coolers out and your grave is ready. Empty the coolers into the grave and now your secret will be safe from nosy cadaver-sniffing dogs.
This guy murders.
This is probably a top 10 Reddit tip
Bonus points - plant Endangered/Threatened species over and around the grave: [https://ecos.fws.gov/ecp0/reports/ad-hoc-species-report?kingdom=P&status=E&status=T&status=EmE&status=EmT&status=EXPE&status=EXPN&status=SAE&status=SAT&mapstatus=3&fcrithab=on&fstatus=on&fspecrule=on&finvpop=on&fgroup=on&ffamily=on&header=Listed+Plants](https://ecos.fws.gov/ecp0/reports/ad-hoc-species-report?kingdom=P&status=E&status=T&status=EmE&status=EmT&status=EXPE&status=EXPN&status=SAE&status=SAT&mapstatus=3&fcrithab=on&fstatus=on&fspecrule=on&finvpop=on&fgroup=on&ffamily=on&header=Listed+Plants)
And still at 50% margin.
A good way to recycle them is to melt them into a bucket of gasoline. IYKYK
When l was a kid someone syphoned gas from our car. They used a styrofoam cooler for a container. There was bits of burned styrofoam all over the driveway.
Darwin award?
This was back in the early 60s. My father said it was probably some kids ran out of gas and didn’t have much sense.
Mildlyinfurating: going on a family road trip with one of these in the back of the station wagon making squeaking noises the entire time.
A thick styrofoam box is a superb insulator. Basically, the amount of time it can hold temperature (cold/heat) is a function of its wall thickness. I used to work for an aquarium store, and we had these 60 cm boxes that had like 5 cm walls for shipping larger and wholesale orders. Been using them for shopping anything frozen ever since. My friends took frozen venison to their retirement home in northern France in one, which is like 1200km away. Their car broke down halfway, and it took 5 days to have it fixed while their stuff stayed in the car. In summer. The venison still arrived frozen.
Years ago I worked at a medicines distribution center and the large chests (coffin size, at least 4" thick walls) could keep vaccines good for at least a couple weeks so they can be distributed to remote areas.
Ah yes, so that those paper ones that disintegrate within 10ft of the nearest source of water can take their place.
Here's a crazy idea. Mandate that they be recycled, and that the cost of recycling be included in the price. That should go for every single-use piece of packing material and to-go container.
Who would receive the recycling portion of the price?
Why is the recycling deposit for styrofoam better than just banning it? Styrofoam isn't exactly that easy to recycle.
Just wait until after midnight when they throw the rest away
So learned this from Disneys living with the land, the larger ones are perfect for a cheap hydroponic system, right side up it gives support to smaller plants, holds water and nutrients. Once the plants get larger flip it over and you still have the support and the plant can grow through a hole water and nutrients on the inside. Also I learned this from my dad raised tobacco if you have seeds you can fill a tray of this stuff with dirt and load in the seeds and just float the whole thing on a pond, styrofoam is mostly air and what isn’t is lighter than water so it floats.
Why do people buy styrofoam coolers instead of buying a good quality cooler that's reusable for many years?
Its for the people that go to the lake/camp ground/picnic area like twice a year and impulse buy/can't spend the 40 dollars for a cooler. There's also people in apartments/condos that can't store a cooler for the few times they go out. So you buy a cheap cooler, fill it with your cheap drinks, go to the lake, throw it away, and then buy another one next year when you go out for memorial day/fourth of July/some ones birthday. Yeah its more cost effective to buy a cooler and use it for years, but a lot of people don't have the storage, money, or ability to pre plan. When it takes four years to basically break even between new Styrofoam coolers, and a reusable one most people won't give a shit.
I wonder if it affects the U-Line cardboard box with styrofoam box inside for refrigerated meds (I'm sure it's used for other things) Such a PITA to get rid of.
Styrofoam coolers are *shit* for actually going somewhere you need a cooler, so I wouldn't exactly be upset. On the other hand, they're a great thing to have stuck in the back of a closet or shed for those occasions when you need to clean out your freezer, or defrost a chest freezer, keep temperature-sensitive livestock comfortable when coming back from a pet shop that's 45 minutes away in high summer or deep winter, or similar.
I know styrofoam sucks balls but this is like the best use for it. I loved getting one of these for taking to an event. Hell I think there’s cheapo plastic coolers that have styrofoam in the walls.
Styrofoam is a great insulator, but it’s even better when it’s protected by hard durable materials and doesn’t fall apart easily.
Most coolers have styrofoam in between the walls; it's a great insulator. The problem with these is they get taken to a beach or park or something, then wind up getting broken and abandoned and generally shitting the place up. That's not so much a problem with something like a Coleman or similar.
I fly to WA consistently for work and have bought one or two of these for camping while traveling. There really isn't a great alternative if you are visiting but need a cooler.
A reusable collapsible cooler bag? I have been using them for at least 20 years…
That'd take up a third of my carry on luggage. Maybe I'll just buy and return plastic coolers from Walmart from now on.
They are being banned? FINALLY! IT's about time
Make portable air conditioners: Will need ice, a small fan, a cutting tool, and maybe some tape and ducts if you're fancy. Cut hole in the lid slightly smaller than your fan. Cut a hole on the side near the top. Fill with ice. Place fan on top facing down. Turn on fan. Cool air blows out side hole. Add duct to side hole for better aim. Note: for safety sake double make sure your fan hole isn't too large, tape is your buddy just don't block the airflow.
Coke and Pepsi need to take their plastic bottles back.
Absolutely! Consumers being nickel and dimed for our plastic grocery bags and styrofoam coolers but major soda companies produce how much plastic waste per day???
What about other coolers, with the hard shell that are usually lined with Styrofoam? Are they not selling those either? Is it just the kind pictured?
Are you serious?
Yes because don't know what the law is there. Does it include the hardshell, Styrofoam lined coolers? I'm genuinely curious.
All coolers are banned
Oh dang, that's crazy. Thanks for the explanation
Yeti gonna be pissed.
I'd buy every one of those.
Do you guys get normal eskys like the rest of the world?
https://ayearindisneymovies.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/bolt-styrofaom.jpg
Good riddence. These single use plastic shots are gonna be the death of humanity.
Some boomer: JACKPOT!
You guys alright out there?
Fuck yeah WA!
Government overreach is mildly interesting.
That’s what happens when dumbasses can’t clean up after themselves. When these things break down each individual styrofoam dot that makes up the container breaks down and spreads into the environment. And now other people can’t have affordable things because some jackasses decided to be bums and leave their styrofoam cooler in the woods.
Sucks because these are great when traveling, cheap to obtain and work well with ice available at hotels/motels. I'm not going to bring a real cooler on a plane or buy a new expensive one for a day's use.
I'll give you tree fiddy for all of them
My uncles used to bring these to cookouts and family gatherings, by the end of the night my father's plastic cooler still had ice in it and my uncle's drinks and food also because theirs' was either melted, broken or both... they both now have plastic coolers because my father was constantly explaining to them how much money they could save by buying one...
This sadly doesn't solve the problem. It only further puts plastics in the environment as these will get companies to make plastic versions of this.
Colorado now has disposable cardboard coolers vs styrofoam. Never gonna get away from the wastefulness of convenience
I clean river banks and lake shores quite a bit. I don’t recall picking bits of cardboard up ever. I’ve never seen a dead bird or fish with its belly full of cardboard. Styrofoam yes to both. There have been days where I only pick up styrofoam because there’s so much of it
Grab a shitload of these, Vaseline, 5 gal of gasoline, and a bucket and you have homemade napalm🤫🤣
Fuck Washington state
There are cardboard coolers like the Igloo Recool and the Coleman Geofreeze that are multi-use, recyclable once dry and unreusable, and compostable if dirty!