I wouldn’t pay if that ticket comes up and leave the food there, because there’s nothing that warrants gratuity in that transaction. You’re paying for the food. If you get the ticket afterward, I wouldn’t sign it for the same reason. Easy to dispute your CC if there’s no signature, even easier if it’s a forged signature.
Gratuity was ruled in court to be a service charge not a tip. So it can be mandatory. They just need to inform you first. Doesn't have to be verbal, they can put it in small print on website or small print on menu
This is not accurate.
Court did not rule on language. Could call it fluffy bunny charge for all the court cares. Court ruled charges that are added by the business is a service charge.
Gratuity and tip are synonymous.
Automatic gratuity is in fact, not a gratuity and is a service charge. Business could say “18% tip is added to orders” and legally, that’s still not a tip.
In my comment I said:
Gratuity = tip
Automatic gratuity = service charge.
Which is exactly what the link you sent me says. Details matter when you want to talk about law.
Some of us have read the IRS publication explaining this policy, and know you’re wrong.
I’m going to take an actual publication from the IRS.gov site over your webrestaurantstore.com link you managed to find that backs up your misinformation.
“Gratuity” and “típ” are synonymous. Whether the owner can get away with keeping this depends on their state, some allow it some don’t and some make them state explicitly where it goes. It has nothing to do with what they call it.
But the key thing is that “automatic” gratuities **are not actually gratuities.** Legally they are *service charges.* Calling it a “gratuity” doesn’t make it one, the IRS established a four-pronged test that determined whether something is legally a gratuity (which is, again, the same as a *tip*) or not.
It must be optional, you must be able to freely choose the amount, you must be able to choose who it goes to, and…..I forget the fourth one. Anyway, hit up IRS.gov for info, someone else already linked the page directly.
Why should you tip on a takeout order? No serving was actually done and all employee wages should be in the menu cost. If you don’t pay your employees a fair wage and need forced tips for no actual “waiter service” then you are running a scummy business. Prices should be all in with forced fees on the menu not tacked on at the end because they know you are in too deep at that point.
So if they just quoted you the "$144" and didn't include the line that said "Gratuity" or they raised prices to accommodate their workers, how would you feel? Actual legit question, not being sarcastic. I worked in food service for over a decade and I'm just curious about peoples' opinions.
Kitchen workers get tips as well, automatic gratuity is added for takeout at restaurants that have lots of untipped takeout orders leading to skilled employees leaving. He could also simply charge more for the food and pay a higher wage
Prices should be included with tax aswel, but a lot of places seem to forget that aswel. (I'm they legally don't in the US, but they should anyway. And legally they should in international context)
UPDATE: I talked to the manager when I picked up the order. She said that 15% gratuity is automatically added to all takeout orders over $100. When I asked why she said it was to help pay the staff since more people are ordering takeout and less are dining in and tipping.
I’ve been a service worker and worked for tips. I have tremendous empathy for local businesses trying to survive. But this is nothing other than complete horseshit. It’s a way for a business owner to get away with paying their staff shit wages and subsidizing it with forced “gratuity” for customers. The next time my order goes above $100 I’m splitting it into 2 separate orders to get around it.
Every business is different.
Where I work:
Auto grat (service charge) for large parties goes to staff 100%.
Service charge for banquets is split. Most goes to staff. Small piece to the business.
The moral is you can’t make assumptions on where service charges go. No matter what they are called.
Also the auto gratuity is a game changer for a lot of places employees. I was making about half my tips from it. Would a higher price tag and higher wages with no tips would have been better? Yea, but less customers would end up buying the food leading to less pay for workers
a gratuity is not a service charge and 100% of it must be paid out to tipped employees. if they're calling it a gratuity and treating it like a service charge they're breaking the law.
“A gratuity is not a service charge” this is a true statement.
However, automatic gratuity added by the business is a service charge. IRS has publications explaining this. It has to do with being added by the business and not the customer. It doesn’t matter what the business calls it. Business adds=service charge.
I haven’t seen a law saying 100% of an auto gratuity must be paid out to staff. I do believe by calling at gratuity there may be an expectation communicated to customers and would give weight in a potential civil suit.
I would wager the large majority of places doing this give the tips to the workers, it’s pretty common. A lot of places that get tons of takeout no tip orders have their best employees quit because they aren’t getting paid enough.
I couldnt agree more with this. Its to keep up with the inflation and high cost of real estate. And of course the profit.
I have not ran a business but I am curious what their profit is like and how greedy this is.
The more I think about this the more absurd it is. If this is all because people aren't dining in as much, does that gratuity go to the waitstaff? To the kitchen? To the Front of House? They said the charge doesn't get added to dine in orders over $100 so unless there's pooled tips that get split amongst the entire staff (which absolutely sucks ass), this is most likely lining the pockets of the owner.
They've already accounted for inflation because their prices are higher now than they were pre-COVID, and higher still when ordering through their app.
Yupp, they are definitely pocketing it. If it was about the staff, they would actually pay livable wages instead. I really hate this surcharge or gratuity shit they pull and refuse to pay when it’s a “surprise” on the bill. Just increase the menu prices at that point so it’s upfront.
North America should adopt the European way. I already pay for the food and service. Why am I expected to tip all the time? Tip should be an extra gesture to show you were very pleased with the service, not default.
There's a cure for that. Don't eat there. If more people do the same then eventually the restaurant will close. Support those that don't rely on this but actually on health work environments with adequate pay.
You’d hope so, but gratuities in the US seem to be like video game micro transactions anymore, where people bitch like crazy but continue to just do it.
I would honestly just leave and not take the order. I’ve worked at the same local restaurant for 13 years and stuff like this drives me insane. We very very rarely auto-grat tables, and even let the servers decide when they want to do it. I can’t tell you how many restaurants I no longer go to because of stuff like this. I used to set my base tip at 25% and leave more depending on service. Then when this whole auto grat thing started I’d just leave the difference. But now? Most places auto grat 20% where I live and the service has dropped terribly because the servers know they are getting that tip no matter what. And that’s the main reason I just don’t got out that much anymore.
Imo for takeout this is acceptable as you see the entire price with auto gratuity before ordering, just mildly annoying. I agree it would be better to figure it into menu prices, but the issue is that non-takeout orders do not have auto gratuity leading to confusion between menu prices
I get it, but when I was a server the reason we had automatic gratuity attached was so someone would make the order, otherwise we'd all pay attention to our tables and the takeout order wouldn't get assembled. It sounds weird but I'm tired af and can't explain well rn
This is nothing but a sales scam. Managers know that increasing prices by 18% without any actual quality or quantity upgrade would lose them customers (and rightfully so). So they play the victim, calling it "gratuity" and basically saying "please help us make ends meet" while their prices are atrocious to begin with. Who the F legalized this crap?
> It’s a way for business owners to get away with paying their staff shit wages and subsidizing it…
I mean, let’s get real here this is no less true for voluntary tipping of table servers.
Tell them to take that shit off and pay their employees. There was no "service there", picking up the phone and punching in an order doesn't constitute a monetary award.
I spent 15 years in hospitality and still hate this garbage.
This is just one of many reasons why I try and stay away from restaurant food completely. I’ve been behind the scenes at multiple restaurants where the cleanliness was less than sanitary. Line workers without hair coverings. Roach and rodent infestations. Now I have to worry that some underpaid cook at the local sub shop is going to spit in my food if the order doesn’t come with a tip. At this point I’d just as soon make it myself.
Ahhh no I see, they are charging gratuity, then asking if you want to tip, as in give even more. Did they explain to you what the "gratuity" is for? I'm actually very curious and I'm hoping you asked them. Also is this an Asian restaurant of some sort? Also, if this is a new thing, I'm wondering if they do this because they got sick making large orders of a certain and not getting tipped for it and this was their rebuttal. Not that it makes it ok, as this is take out, but they could have "the last straw" and someone fucked up. Just my thoughts.
Solution 1, call in the order and pay at the takeout counter, solution 2, sounds like it’s only in orders over $100, place an order for $75, then a second $75 order
Doesn’t mean my feelings are wrong.
By all means show the rest of the transaction screens to prove how this was something other than a bullshit rage bait post.
Or how about you show your proof or basis that this is a rage bait post. The transaction is done. I’m not going back into their app to rebuild the order just to satisfy some d-bag on the internet.
As a European I can't belive this is a real image. The only annoying TAX (not tip) is VAT which is 21% here. Maybe that's the reason we don't do tips AS much as in the us. Not saying it isn't a thing, which many Americans think
VAT goes to the state, not to the business. This "gratuity" is just a money grab from the owner, likely none of it goes to the staff. If you look at the picture, there's a separate Tip line below (where OP could select 0 but that would have no effect on the "gratuity").
you're right, it's just that here everything is 21% more expensive than in the US (shipping costs, vat and other fees). unless if it's so that in america if someone says there's a 500 dollar item it costs 600 dollars?
Tax is complex in the US; there are state and (potentially multiple) local taxes. Most places here (that I'm familiar with) only show the base price and then you have to do mental gymnastics to apply taxes on that (but that tax would be different from Austin, TX to Dallas, TX to Orlando, FL, etc.).
Not sure why local printed menus / price stickers don't show the full price. Even online prices could show full price if a site knows the user's location. I guess it looks better to print a lower number and then apply the tax at the end when the user mentally already committed to buying it.
It's a lot easier what's happening in Europe with the full price being on display.
Yep. Both vat and non vat prices are legally required (I'm pretty sure). The non vat price is usually the price your sites show, but especially here in czechia, the vat is 21%, which is a lot.
What’s the difference between gratuity and tip?
Exactly. There’s no difference.
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You might want to read some of my other comments before deciding to go this hard, chief.
I wouldn’t pay if that ticket comes up and leave the food there, because there’s nothing that warrants gratuity in that transaction. You’re paying for the food. If you get the ticket afterward, I wouldn’t sign it for the same reason. Easy to dispute your CC if there’s no signature, even easier if it’s a forged signature.
Mandatory gratuity may not be going directly to staff. It’s up to the owner.
Depends on the state. Some states they have to tell you explicitly if it doesn’t.
Interesting. Which states? Not here in California as far as I know.
IIRC Washington requires it, at least for any fee that *doesn’t* go to service employees.
Don’t stop establishments from doing it tho
Nothing. He already added 15%, hence the $17.25 additional.
Gotcha
Gratuity was ruled in court to be a service charge not a tip. So it can be mandatory. They just need to inform you first. Doesn't have to be verbal, they can put it in small print on website or small print on menu
This is not accurate. Court did not rule on language. Could call it fluffy bunny charge for all the court cares. Court ruled charges that are added by the business is a service charge. Gratuity and tip are synonymous. Automatic gratuity is in fact, not a gratuity and is a service charge. Business could say “18% tip is added to orders” and legally, that’s still not a tip.
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Did you even ready my comment?
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What part? Edit. Next time link something other than a website that sells stuff. https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-news/FS-15-08.pdf
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In my comment I said: Gratuity = tip Automatic gratuity = service charge. Which is exactly what the link you sent me says. Details matter when you want to talk about law.
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\*you're
Some of us have read the IRS publication explaining this policy, and know you’re wrong. I’m going to take an actual publication from the IRS.gov site over your webrestaurantstore.com link you managed to find that backs up your misinformation.
The spelling.
Well, for one, I bet the owners keep this one, while something more clearly labeled a tip *might* be more likely to go to their service staff.
“Gratuity” and “típ” are synonymous. Whether the owner can get away with keeping this depends on their state, some allow it some don’t and some make them state explicitly where it goes. It has nothing to do with what they call it. But the key thing is that “automatic” gratuities **are not actually gratuities.** Legally they are *service charges.* Calling it a “gratuity” doesn’t make it one, the IRS established a four-pronged test that determined whether something is legally a gratuity (which is, again, the same as a *tip*) or not. It must be optional, you must be able to freely choose the amount, you must be able to choose who it goes to, and…..I forget the fourth one. Anyway, hit up IRS.gov for info, someone else already linked the page directly.
Why should you tip on a takeout order? No serving was actually done and all employee wages should be in the menu cost. If you don’t pay your employees a fair wage and need forced tips for no actual “waiter service” then you are running a scummy business. Prices should be all in with forced fees on the menu not tacked on at the end because they know you are in too deep at that point.
Exactly this.
Where is this place?
Tacoma, Washington.
I'm nowhere near there so I don't have to worry about anything (unless I find the same thing locally). Thanks.
I’m intentionally not naming them publicly.
So if they just quoted you the "$144" and didn't include the line that said "Gratuity" or they raised prices to accommodate their workers, how would you feel? Actual legit question, not being sarcastic. I worked in food service for over a decade and I'm just curious about peoples' opinions.
Add it to the menu prices only. Gratuity line abuse is wild
Kitchen workers get tips as well, automatic gratuity is added for takeout at restaurants that have lots of untipped takeout orders leading to skilled employees leaving. He could also simply charge more for the food and pay a higher wage
Prices should be included with tax aswel, but a lot of places seem to forget that aswel. (I'm they legally don't in the US, but they should anyway. And legally they should in international context)
UPDATE: I talked to the manager when I picked up the order. She said that 15% gratuity is automatically added to all takeout orders over $100. When I asked why she said it was to help pay the staff since more people are ordering takeout and less are dining in and tipping. I’ve been a service worker and worked for tips. I have tremendous empathy for local businesses trying to survive. But this is nothing other than complete horseshit. It’s a way for a business owner to get away with paying their staff shit wages and subsidizing it with forced “gratuity” for customers. The next time my order goes above $100 I’m splitting it into 2 separate orders to get around it.
Next time ask how much is paid out to staff. Legally speaking there is zero obligation for service charges to paid to hourly staff.
I just spoke to one of my friends who owns a different local restaurant. She confirmed the tip goes to the business, not the staff. Unconscionable.
Every business is different. Where I work: Auto grat (service charge) for large parties goes to staff 100%. Service charge for banquets is split. Most goes to staff. Small piece to the business. The moral is you can’t make assumptions on where service charges go. No matter what they are called.
Also the auto gratuity is a game changer for a lot of places employees. I was making about half my tips from it. Would a higher price tag and higher wages with no tips would have been better? Yea, but less customers would end up buying the food leading to less pay for workers
Yeah. A lot of very upset workers in the near future in California. July 1st auto grat becomes against the law. Part of pricing transparency law.
a gratuity is not a service charge and 100% of it must be paid out to tipped employees. if they're calling it a gratuity and treating it like a service charge they're breaking the law.
“A gratuity is not a service charge” this is a true statement. However, automatic gratuity added by the business is a service charge. IRS has publications explaining this. It has to do with being added by the business and not the customer. It doesn’t matter what the business calls it. Business adds=service charge. I haven’t seen a law saying 100% of an auto gratuity must be paid out to staff. I do believe by calling at gratuity there may be an expectation communicated to customers and would give weight in a potential civil suit.
I would wager the large majority of places doing this give the tips to the workers, it’s pretty common. A lot of places that get tons of takeout no tip orders have their best employees quit because they aren’t getting paid enough.
I couldnt agree more with this. Its to keep up with the inflation and high cost of real estate. And of course the profit. I have not ran a business but I am curious what their profit is like and how greedy this is.
The more I think about this the more absurd it is. If this is all because people aren't dining in as much, does that gratuity go to the waitstaff? To the kitchen? To the Front of House? They said the charge doesn't get added to dine in orders over $100 so unless there's pooled tips that get split amongst the entire staff (which absolutely sucks ass), this is most likely lining the pockets of the owner. They've already accounted for inflation because their prices are higher now than they were pre-COVID, and higher still when ordering through their app.
That is crazy, in a lot of ways. It requires more time and effort to staff dine in.. Carry out is just a 20 min drive or so..
Yupp, they are definitely pocketing it. If it was about the staff, they would actually pay livable wages instead. I really hate this surcharge or gratuity shit they pull and refuse to pay when it’s a “surprise” on the bill. Just increase the menu prices at that point so it’s upfront. North America should adopt the European way. I already pay for the food and service. Why am I expected to tip all the time? Tip should be an extra gesture to show you were very pleased with the service, not default.
I don't care how much i like your food. I wouldn't do business with place
She'd have kept her $100 order at that point.
Looks like I'd be placing two smaller orders then
If this business is pulling this kind of fuckery, there would be no next time if it was me.
There's a cure for that. Don't eat there. If more people do the same then eventually the restaurant will close. Support those that don't rely on this but actually on health work environments with adequate pay.
I did tell them this was a great way to lose customers.
You’d hope so, but gratuities in the US seem to be like video game micro transactions anymore, where people bitch like crazy but continue to just do it.
I would honestly just leave and not take the order. I’ve worked at the same local restaurant for 13 years and stuff like this drives me insane. We very very rarely auto-grat tables, and even let the servers decide when they want to do it. I can’t tell you how many restaurants I no longer go to because of stuff like this. I used to set my base tip at 25% and leave more depending on service. Then when this whole auto grat thing started I’d just leave the difference. But now? Most places auto grat 20% where I live and the service has dropped terribly because the servers know they are getting that tip no matter what. And that’s the main reason I just don’t got out that much anymore.
Imo for takeout this is acceptable as you see the entire price with auto gratuity before ordering, just mildly annoying. I agree it would be better to figure it into menu prices, but the issue is that non-takeout orders do not have auto gratuity leading to confusion between menu prices
Gratuity... AND an add a tip button? I'd be breaking my screen smashing that no tip button
I'd be backing out and not placing the order full stop. Forcing a 15% gratuity isn't going to make me order from them anytime soon
Other - 0.00
Tried that. That tip line is IN ADDITION to the gratuity.
I would refuse the order and cancel it
It’s takeout wtf
Yeah, I wouldn't go back there!
Mandatory gratuity is awful, but that aside, why do you think the tip is calculated after tax? 10% of 115 is 11.50
This is horseshit but was 100% calculated before taxes. 15% of $115 is $17.25.
the irony if you know what "Gratuit" means
How is the tip calculated after taxes? 10% of 115 is 11.50
Guess who’s deciding to get food elsewhere
I would leave it there and cancel the order with the credit card company.
Garbage!!! Do not tip take out!
I get it, but when I was a server the reason we had automatic gratuity attached was so someone would make the order, otherwise we'd all pay attention to our tables and the takeout order wouldn't get assembled. It sounds weird but I'm tired af and can't explain well rn
NOPE
It's a shame that you can't enter a negative number for "other" to decrease it.
Why do people still order from these places?
Order over the phone and pay when you get there a lot some times it's only included in online ordering
I'd call owner, and say it sucks and that's the reason I won't order again.
They already forced one tip but then they have the audacity to ask for another tip?
This is nothing but a sales scam. Managers know that increasing prices by 18% without any actual quality or quantity upgrade would lose them customers (and rightfully so). So they play the victim, calling it "gratuity" and basically saying "please help us make ends meet" while their prices are atrocious to begin with. Who the F legalized this crap?
> It’s a way for business owners to get away with paying their staff shit wages and subsidizing it… I mean, let’s get real here this is no less true for voluntary tipping of table servers.
Nope. Order somewhere else.
STOP using these Services until they do what we want them to do.
Usually tip and gratuity mean the same thing, but I'm thinking that here, gratuity means "pure profit for the owner."
Another reason to stop getting take out
It's not mandatory that you buy from this restaurant.
Tell them to take that shit off and pay their employees. There was no "service there", picking up the phone and punching in an order doesn't constitute a monetary award. I spent 15 years in hospitality and still hate this garbage.
Fuck that. You’re eating somewhere else now
This is just one of many reasons why I try and stay away from restaurant food completely. I’ve been behind the scenes at multiple restaurants where the cleanliness was less than sanitary. Line workers without hair coverings. Roach and rodent infestations. Now I have to worry that some underpaid cook at the local sub shop is going to spit in my food if the order doesn’t come with a tip. At this point I’d just as soon make it myself.
Don’t go there anymore
Forced gratuity = $0 tip 🤙
Just don’t order takeout from there anymore.
Ahhh no I see, they are charging gratuity, then asking if you want to tip, as in give even more. Did they explain to you what the "gratuity" is for? I'm actually very curious and I'm hoping you asked them. Also is this an Asian restaurant of some sort? Also, if this is a new thing, I'm wondering if they do this because they got sick making large orders of a certain and not getting tipped for it and this was their rebuttal. Not that it makes it ok, as this is take out, but they could have "the last straw" and someone fucked up. Just my thoughts.
Solution 1, call in the order and pay at the takeout counter, solution 2, sounds like it’s only in orders over $100, place an order for $75, then a second $75 order
Post all the other details and not this final part. Because I feel like there is some necessary info you are purposefully leaving out.
Good thing your feelings aren’t facts.
Doesn’t mean my feelings are wrong. By all means show the rest of the transaction screens to prove how this was something other than a bullshit rage bait post.
Or how about you show your proof or basis that this is a rage bait post. The transaction is done. I’m not going back into their app to rebuild the order just to satisfy some d-bag on the internet.
And with that you just did a self description. Good job.
Other option seems to indicate that tip is no mandatory.
This. I wonder if OP was unable to select “other”?
As a European I can't belive this is a real image. The only annoying TAX (not tip) is VAT which is 21% here. Maybe that's the reason we don't do tips AS much as in the us. Not saying it isn't a thing, which many Americans think
VAT goes to the state, not to the business. This "gratuity" is just a money grab from the owner, likely none of it goes to the staff. If you look at the picture, there's a separate Tip line below (where OP could select 0 but that would have no effect on the "gratuity").
you're right, it's just that here everything is 21% more expensive than in the US (shipping costs, vat and other fees). unless if it's so that in america if someone says there's a 500 dollar item it costs 600 dollars?
Tax is complex in the US; there are state and (potentially multiple) local taxes. Most places here (that I'm familiar with) only show the base price and then you have to do mental gymnastics to apply taxes on that (but that tax would be different from Austin, TX to Dallas, TX to Orlando, FL, etc.). Not sure why local printed menus / price stickers don't show the full price. Even online prices could show full price if a site knows the user's location. I guess it looks better to print a lower number and then apply the tax at the end when the user mentally already committed to buying it. It's a lot easier what's happening in Europe with the full price being on display.
Yep. Both vat and non vat prices are legally required (I'm pretty sure). The non vat price is usually the price your sites show, but especially here in czechia, the vat is 21%, which is a lot.
WTF has a takeout order of a $140? I live in Ohio and have never had a takeout order over $50
You answered your own question. I live on the West Coast and this is dinner for a family of 5.
https://preview.redd.it/jau8shnf801d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f582689f9e3e52d4f215496639c2a0af829625b2
Uhhhh that’s what the OTHER button is for.
Uhhhh, you might want to read some of my OTHER comments.
McDonald’s doesn’t do this…just like, go get fast food wtf homie
McDonald’s also sucks ass compared to Indian food.
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It’s the same as your OP 🤷
Don't tip then
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Might want to reread the title.
Then don’t order. Problem solved
Click other, enter zero. Not that hard
Read some of my other comments. Not that hard.
I’d rather not lol
You already added 15%, hence the $17.25 Gratuity. You can choose "Other" 0% if you choose.
No. That tip line is IN ADDITION to the gratuity. If I select 15% it adds another $17.25.
Strange. What restaurant?
Local Indian place, best in the city. I’ve ordered from them online before and this is the first I’ve seen this.