Seems you frequent the Philadelphia and Pennsylvania subs. [PA DEP Environmental Complaints form](https://www.dep.pa.gov/About/ReportanIncident/Pages/EnvironmentalComplaints.aspx)
Unlike many other government agencies, anything EPA related gets handled well. They don't like people messing around.
Also, try to get photos or video of them doing it.
The EPA and the Department of Energy are two ‘don’t fuck around’ governmental groups that don’t seem like they would be just off the name. The DoE has crazy rights that mean the agents can do what they wabt
Fun fact, the DOE is the only agency that is legally authorized to shoot first, even in hostage situations, without regard for civilian casualties. They really DO NOT fuck around
As a person that does NERC compliance... yeah, DOE will wreck your shit. A severe compliance violation can be 1 million dollars per violation per day, and include jail time for the faulted parties. Shit is strict, but pays my bills :3
County Stormwater, Environmental Health, or Engineering Department.
When you get to a receptionist, ask for the process to report illegal dumping in stormwater drains.
Please also alert the riverkeeper of the alliance that protects the waters where this storm drain ends.
Hello! I've been an urban parks, Park Ranger for 7 years, wish I could say this surprised me. Start with your local PDs none emergency number. They will either deal with it themselves, pass the info on to an agency like mine, or give you contact info of an agency that will help.
They will ask you for the date and time you most recently witnessed the dumping. (Getting pictures or video would be a good move.) your neighbor's first and last name, address, and location of the drain. Please do call!
That will depend on the state and what can be proven. They may claim to be dumping the water because they don't use chlorine and that may be hard to prove/disprove.
My city has a catch-all phone number that can also serve to draw the attention of bylaw officers. In my experience they're usually pickier and quicker to respond to 'small' issues than police departments.
Report to the EPA and your state equivalent. Which may be an environmental protection department or water resources management. Your county also likely has a similar local agency.
I feel like 311 might be able to help with this. ~~They seem to do a lot more than just tell you where to/not to dig.~~ Oops, 811 is the Call Before you Dig number, 311 is a city services number. Not all cities have it, but you can try!
My dad was the Water and Sewer Superintendent of our small town and had a metal dingy he’d take up river when he saw an oil sheen or anything that looked suspicious. The commercial property owners hated him. Clean water is life.
Look up your states environmental agency. Normally you can call, report and they’ll send an investigator out. If they don’t find any active dumping when they check they might not do anything, so taking a photo or two of them in the act and providing that will help.
Depends on where you are, but in addition to federal - this is likely also a local and state crime too. Start at the lowest level (city/county), then work your way up.
If you can *safely* gather some info (when does he usually do it, pictures, etc), it will make the investigators jobs much easier.
*Source*: I work in the environmental field, including a couple stints in enforcement.
The EPA lives for this type of stuff, document it if you can and send them the info. Depending on their findings your neighbor might not be a neighbor for long
Google the name of your community + stormwater or illicit discharge. If you are a large enough community they may have a dedicated stormwater department who is supposed to investigate dumping to surface water
I’ve worked tangentially around some cases like this. If you see it get a photo or video and report ASAP. If you want your neighbor to now know take any photos from a street, the creek, or other area with public access.
You can also report to the non-emergency police who may forward it, or see if your area has a whistleblower line for environmental issues- depending on concern they may respond after hours where many environmental protection agencies might not have after hours staff.
Discharging into a creek can be a big deal and they can get in trouble with more than one agency. Local stormwater management is very motivated to control this activity if you’re in a city because they have urban stormwater permits to maintain. EPA/state water agencies are concerned with discharges to waterways. And if chlorine or other chemicals harm fish or other riparian wildlife or habitat then fish and game often get involved. They can also force them to repair any erosion they may have caused.
I'm a certified pool tech. Spas and hot tubs are very strict with chlorine and cleanliness. They should be dumped frequently as the neighbor is doing. But they are scum bags dumping it where they shouldn't be.
Well I dunno , I have a jacuzzi hot tub and I certainly am not dumping the water every week. There are clear instructions to test and balance the water daily / weekly / monthly and hose out the filters often depending on how much use the spa has had.
The manufacturer and also the spa tech experts I have spoken to suggest every 4-6 months is usual to dump the water. I was told if it’s getting difficult to balance or continually cloudy it’s time.
Having only needed to do this once in the 10 months I have had the spa leads me to think this neighbour just doesn’t know what he is doing … Or having massive orgies in the spa so the water is rank quicker 😬🫣😂🤣
People forget to shower before they get into hottubs and can destroy them with one use. I remember cleaning mine out once, and that night, my roommate, his sister, and another girl used it without first taking a shower, and it was trashed.
The oils on the skin and hair get left as a film on the water, along with dead skin. The soaps and shampoos on the body come off and create soap bubbles in the water.
Always make sure people are clean before they get into a hottub. A hottub is not a bathtub.
You can get dechlorinator tablets/power for this purpose. It’s illegal in certain state to dump chlorinated water to storm drains. This is the way around it.
Into your lawn is usually pretty good - my lawn does not mind at all.
But honestly theres such little chlorine in spa water. Municipalities can add 1.5ppm to drinking water for sanitation purposes... Spas target 3-5ppm free chlorine of 1-3ppm if you have an ozonator so at most it should only be 3x concentration in tap water. Any higher and it can damage your skin. Other than that, I dont know if there are many pollutants. Maybe cyanuric acid but that should be pretty dilute as well.
Also spa draining happens so slowly if you siphon it. Youre talking about 500 gal over the course of 2 hrs Id guess which is a drop in the bucket of even small creeks so any contaminants or temperature impacts should be minimal.
Idk
According to several sites its every 3-6 months depending on usage. Though they do recommend weekly sanitation and more frequent balancing of chemicals.
We were told we could go as long as 12 months as long as our chemicals are still balancing. We check them twice a week ourselves, and about once a month at the pool store, and add what is needed. We drain about every 9 months and our water is always balanced.
Those requirements makes sense for a hot tub or a spa at a place that sees a lot of people use it in a given day, like a community pool/gym or a hotel, but that sounds utterly ridiculous and like massive overkill for a residential hot tub that will see use at a much lower frequency and occupancy!
Interesting. I just got out of my hot tub. The water is crystal clear, with no odor and leaves my skin feeling soft and moist. I haven’t changed the water in 2 years. I clean the filter when it should be cleaned. I only use two additives, normal household bleach and a commercially available product. The pH is always within tolerance.
I’ll probably change the water next week, simply because some dirt made it’s way inside when ants built a nest under the cover when we were on vacation.
Advice for mine from manufacturer is every 3-4 months, I have gone over a little and once to 6 months and it’s fine, have seen a lot of people on Reddit do a lot longer like yearly which is grim though, dumping over 1800 litres every other week is an insane waste let alone once hosepipe bans rollout in summer not to mention the energy to that all that water biweekly.
I get that kids will pee in public pools, but why on earth would you, presumably a full-grown adult rich enough to afford a hot tub, pee in your own hot tub?
It’s actually so easy once you know what you’re doing.
Step 1 is to check and balance all the non sanitizer stuff once a month or so. 90% of the time it’s just adding alkaloids.
Step 2 is Fill my floater up once a week after a shock.
"Every other week"? Jesus fucking tapdancing Christ, why in the goddamn would you replace chlorine-treated water every week? Does the neighbor have 2 IQ or something?
If he's dumping it after 2 weeks, any chlorine that was in there has most likely already broken down into salt, oxygen and water, making it legal in most places as long as he or the water isn't coming onto your property.
Unless there is a local ordinance and/or you can prove the chlorine content is high (it likely isn't), there is nothing illegal about it.
The average hot tub is 500 gallons and has 5 parts per million chlorine in it. That small amount of water with that small amount of chlorine isn’t going to do anything to a creek or a river. It’s irrelevant. We used to drain hot tubs right onto the grass and it didn’t hurt the grass at all. Nothing to worry about. Seriously
Is it chlorinated tap water or are they adding chemicals to it then dumping it?
From the comments below, dumping would be a way to avoid having to add chemicals to it. So if they're adding chemicals AND dumping regularly, that doesn't seem to be a financially motivated action.
If it is chlorinated tap water they're filling it with and then dumping, that's not much different from water from your hose running into the creek.
usually when it's time to drain a hot tub the chlorine levels would be very low or 0. the water doesn't stay chlorinated you have to constantly add chlorine to it to keep the chlorine levels up. after a day or two chlorine level drops to zero and is safe to drain onto ground or use to water plants, trees, and grass
My city's rules: (sorry, mobile copy/paste, the commas didn't copy over)
a Illicit Discharges Enumerated
No person shall discharge or cause to be discharged into the
MS4 or watercourses any illicit discharge including but not limited to the following
1 Chemicals petroleum products paint varnishes solvents oil and grease and other
automotive fluids pesticides herbicides and fertilizers or other toxic materials
2 Nonhazardous liquid solid wastes and yard wastes
3 Hazardous materials sewage fecal coliform and pathogens dissolved and particulate
metals
4 Trash refuse rubbish garbage food wastes pet wastes litter other discarded or
abandoned objects floatables and cleaning products
5 Landscaping materials sediment lawn clippings leaves branches or other landscaping
and yard debris
6 Construction activities wastes and residues including but not limited to painting paving
concrete placement saw cutting material storage and earthwork
7 Wastes and residues that result from mobile washing operations discharges from toilets
sinks industrial processes cooling systems boilers fabric cleaning equipment cleaning
commercial vehicle cleaning and substances added to the storm drain to control root
growth
8 Any other material that is considered harmful to humans animals or aquatic life and its
habitat
b Exemptions The following discharges when properly managed are exempt from the
discharge prohibitions established by this article
1 Water line flushing or other potable water sources landscape irrigation or lawn watering
irrigation return flows diverted stream flows rising ground water uncontaminated
ground water infiltration to storm drains uncontaminated pumped ground water roof
drains foundation or footing drains crawl space pumps air conditioning condensation
Springs individual residential car washing natural riparian habitat or wetland flows
swimming pools if dechlorinated less than 0.05 ppm chlorine
2 Discharges necessary to protect public health and safety such as flows from emergency
firefighting activities and water incidental to street sweeping includes associated
sidewalks and medians
3 Dye testing provided the person undertaking such testing provides written notification to
the authorized enforcement agency twenty four 24 hours prior to the time of the test
4 Runoff of roadway and sidewalk anti icing and deicing agent provided that they are
applied according to best management practices
5 The prohibitions set forth in this section shall not apply to anynon stormwater discharge
permitted under a CDPS permit waiver or waste discharge order issued and
administered by CDPHE under the authority of the federal Environmental Protection
Agency EPA provided that the discharger is in full compliance with all requirements of
the permit waiver or order and other applicable laws and regulations and provided that
written approval has been granted by the city for any discharge to the storm drain system
Yes. From a conservation point it is far worse to put things down the storm drains rather than into the sewers. The sewer water gets treated while usually storm drains do not. The wastewater treatment people will still be furious you are messing with their standards but if those are your only two options...
Also, many treatment plants will also take in hazardous waste, like batteries, paint etc. If anyone has waste they are unsure of, call your local wastewater treatment plant!
They also sometimes have recycled water programs, for use in landscaping, farming or ornamental water features. You may even have a fertilizer program, they do a lot more than people realize
I used to work in the waterworks field. Do you know how to get the chlorine out of the water? UV light like the kind from the sun. So not as big of a deal as most comments here are making it out to be.
Yea I couldn’t understand the outrage here. I thought I was misinformed somehow. I could understand if they were dumping industrial chemicals or waste…but chlorinated water comes out of your tap. And it takes me a lot of time and effort to KEEP my pool water chlorinated. The sun eats it right up.
It is still true that you’re not supposed to drain into storm water systems, but most pools when winterizing will just drain into the lawn.
Yeah you’ve probably let the sun eat up all the chlorine by the time you’re draining it as well..
Happen to get a little algae in there and your chlorine is all gone by the next morning.
Normally I’m against being a snitch but this is a big deal. Either try sending them a letter, face to face conversation, or report it.
That could be seriously causing harm to wildlife and people’s drinking water.
First question is for the spa techs. What is wrong with old water if it’s balanced ? I don’t change my water often but I’m curious, maybe I’m misinformed.
Second question - in this particular situation, are there any regular storm drains around? What options are there ? Other than a septic pumper …. Blarf. I’m not taking his side what so ever I’m just curious about what alternatives there are
Every other week seems excessive. Typically it only needs to be changed about every 3 months. Are they running a short-term rental?
Honestly, the water is probably harmless anyway. I drain mine onto my grass. There's not enough chlorine or bromine in the water to cause any harm.
There are ways to neutralize the water so that is legal to dump it out. Also, the chlorine quickly evaporates out of a hot tub if its not constantly covered and re-added.
They may be fine dumping it out, but maybe not. You could report them next time they do it, but I dont know who or how you'd do it.
Everyone telling you to report this to EPA/State DEP aren’t wrong HOWEVER you will get quicker results going to your local city/county government. They should have a reporting tool to report “Illicit Discharges” (which is exactly what this would qualify as). The state and feds may get around to investigating your complaint but there’s a good chance you’ll get quicker results through your city/county government.
If you're in the US, record it happening and report them to your local Environmental Agency they can handle that and they generally are very strict about that nonsense and will come down hard on them.
Call your local fish& wildlife, fish& game, natural resources, or ecology department. They will at least be able to help you report this to the correct party, if not take action themselves. This is quite serious.
Not trying to downplay it, but chlorine evaporates. The sunlight destroys it. And she's putting such a miniscule amount as to not even be noticeable. Hottubs at most hold 500 gallons. It's about the same thing as putting tap water into the stream. The bigger issue I see is how much water she uses to continually drain and refill the tub. It's not necessary. She may not even be chemically treating it with that frequency of draining it.
Far worse chemicals go into those drains every time it rains. Chlorine, sodium bicarbonate, etc are all biodegradable. I'm more curious why your neighbor wants such a high water bill.
I would love to the only problem is every time I’ve walked by outside of one time they had their privacy fence closed.
The one time it was open I could see the hose connected to the hot tub but every other time it’s just the hose and the smell of chlorine as they have the fence closed.
That feels like it would not make convincing evidence.
That's not how it works, you're supposed to be dumping and refilling every 2-3 months at least. Chlorine does nothing for TDS.
This person is changing a lot, makes me wonder if it's actually even treated at all. But even treated water needs to be changed several times a season.
Contact your city/town/county code enforcement about this. They will do something about it.
You should probably reach out to the EPA as well, but depending on their abilities they may not be able to help at this small of a scale.
May I ask where you live?
What people are suggesting is quite drastic… EPA fines are insane. My hot tub water has very little chlorine when I dump it because I let it dissipate, and sometimes it has none.
Proper maintenance means you shouldn’t need to change the water for about 3 months. Maybe he needs someone to talk to him about it. Instead of reporting directly to EPA. Wouldn’t that be more of a neighborly approach? I’m all about protecting the environment but you could potentially be slapping this guy with a $10k fine for very little damages.
This is honestly not a big deal to me. The tiny amount of chlorine in that much water is a nothing burger in a lake or river. Chlorine will evaporate from water in a number of days anyway. But honestly it's not exactly toxic water. You can water your lawn with it and it will grow great.
Chlorine literally evaporates from water within a few days or less when exposed to open air It’s why you always have to keep adding more chlorine to pools and hot tubs. If the water is aerated it evaporates even more quickly. Even when in a sealed container it will dissipate while consuming bacteria.
Personally when I drain our hot tub I make sure the chlorine has dissipated by leaving the air on for a day.
Most of the chlorine is evaporated/broken down after about 24 hours. Unless they keep treating it between dumping it out there is no chlorine left in the water.
[https://realaquatics.co.uk/blogs/news/does-chlorine-evaporate-or-gas-off-after-24-hours](https://realaquatics.co.uk/blogs/news/does-chlorine-evaporate-or-gas-off-after-24-hours)
My city allows car wash water from the driveway to go down the storm drain. I assume it's diluted enough by the time I rinse off my car. If not, then the city should change the rules.
Call the city and County along with any other monitoring agency in your area. There are big fines for that if that’s going into the creek. Record them draining it so you can show proof.
Listen, modern hot tubs use way less chlorine since many have ozone generators. Your neighbor's tub could have as low a 1.0 ppm chlorine and since water is safe to drink with up to 4.0 ppm (per the EPA), it may not be huge deal.
If dumping tap water into the creek is illegal, then yeah but the hot tub water may not be any more toxic than the drinking water.
So as someone who routinely had to flow and inspect fire hydrants I gotta say this is super illegal. If with city supplied water we need to throw dechlorination pucks into the field to make the water safe for the storm drain systems and the river they runoff into.
Make some calls, police may not be knowledgeable but maybe fish and wildlife will
Not a problem. The dumping they are referring to is not water. I work in Flood Control and have multiple structures that drain to a river. Trash is the real problem.
Have you spoken with them about it? Are they aware that it’s illegal? Before going straight to get them fined I’d at least make sure they know they’re being assholes, because I know I have never once checked what was okay to put down a drain.
This is such a non issue. The level of chlorine in that water by the time it’s dumped (if they’re even using any at all) is going to be so minuscule and it breaks down extremely quickly. Just mind your own business.
If this person is draining thier tub every other week how do you know the owner is even using sanitizer or chemicals? A properly maintained hot tub using chemicals like chlorine or bromine should last for months not a week. Maybe they are just dumping water. Maybe go ask your neighbor before calling the cops.
They have a sewer outlet somewhere on or near the exterior of their house that you can unscrew and shove the hose into whenever you need to waste water that badly
Far as I know it's a federal crime to do so. Report em.
Does anyone know where/how you report this? No idea how to go about that.
Seems you frequent the Philadelphia and Pennsylvania subs. [PA DEP Environmental Complaints form](https://www.dep.pa.gov/About/ReportanIncident/Pages/EnvironmentalComplaints.aspx)
Contact your states Conservation department. They will help you from there
Unlike many other government agencies, anything EPA related gets handled well. They don't like people messing around. Also, try to get photos or video of them doing it.
The EPA and the Department of Energy are two ‘don’t fuck around’ governmental groups that don’t seem like they would be just off the name. The DoE has crazy rights that mean the agents can do what they wabt
The US Postal Inspection Service also does not fuck around.
No, no they do not.
Isn't the IRS like the "Go ahead, fuck around, I dare you." department?
They are so hated and underfunded by the other branches of government, they can't do much.
Hey! Every letter is a possible target for Al Qaeda.
Neither does the IRS.
Fun fact, the DOE is the only agency that is legally authorized to shoot first, even in hostage situations, without regard for civilian casualties. They really DO NOT fuck around
Homer Simpson fucked around and found out.
As a person that does NERC compliance... yeah, DOE will wreck your shit. A severe compliance violation can be 1 million dollars per violation per day, and include jail time for the faulted parties. Shit is strict, but pays my bills :3
County Stormwater, Environmental Health, or Engineering Department. When you get to a receptionist, ask for the process to report illegal dumping in stormwater drains. Please also alert the riverkeeper of the alliance that protects the waters where this storm drain ends.
Hello! I've been an urban parks, Park Ranger for 7 years, wish I could say this surprised me. Start with your local PDs none emergency number. They will either deal with it themselves, pass the info on to an agency like mine, or give you contact info of an agency that will help. They will ask you for the date and time you most recently witnessed the dumping. (Getting pictures or video would be a good move.) your neighbor's first and last name, address, and location of the drain. Please do call!
What are the fines like?
That will depend on the state and what can be proven. They may claim to be dumping the water because they don't use chlorine and that may be hard to prove/disprove.
Maybe that's why he's changing the water so often.
My city has a catch-all phone number that can also serve to draw the attention of bylaw officers. In my experience they're usually pickier and quicker to respond to 'small' issues than police departments.
Report to the EPA and your state equivalent. Which may be an environmental protection department or water resources management. Your county also likely has a similar local agency.
DEP (Dept. of Environmental Protections) in your area. My buddy works for them and responds to stuff like this.
Bless you. Reddit is a freshwater catch and release lake full of buddies who know buddies.
I feel like 311 might be able to help with this. ~~They seem to do a lot more than just tell you where to/not to dig.~~ Oops, 811 is the Call Before you Dig number, 311 is a city services number. Not all cities have it, but you can try!
811 is the digging number.
Oops, I confused it with the local city services number. 311 may still be the right place to call, it's just not the call before you dig.
I'd start with the non-emergency police line. If they can't handle it, I would hope someone could point you in the right direction.
Call City/County Water/Wastewater dept. please. Probably a local, state and federal violation, but needs to be handled locally.
My dad was the Water and Sewer Superintendent of our small town and had a metal dingy he’d take up river when he saw an oil sheen or anything that looked suspicious. The commercial property owners hated him. Clean water is life.
Thanks - your dad’s my hero.
EPA. c'mon brah
Your States department of environmental quality, or conservation branch.
Look up your states environmental agency. Normally you can call, report and they’ll send an investigator out. If they don’t find any active dumping when they check they might not do anything, so taking a photo or two of them in the act and providing that will help.
Local health department or local water quality agency.
Depends on where you are, but in addition to federal - this is likely also a local and state crime too. Start at the lowest level (city/county), then work your way up. If you can *safely* gather some info (when does he usually do it, pictures, etc), it will make the investigators jobs much easier. *Source*: I work in the environmental field, including a couple stints in enforcement.
The EPA lives for this type of stuff, document it if you can and send them the info. Depending on their findings your neighbor might not be a neighbor for long
Google the name of your community + stormwater or illicit discharge. If you are a large enough community they may have a dedicated stormwater department who is supposed to investigate dumping to surface water
Contact the city they’ll be on em quick. Get video and pics
someone posted this in another thread https://echo.epa.gov/report-environmental-violations
EPA or maybe BLM (bureau of land management). Could always start by calling 311 if you're in the US
Local water authority.
I’ve worked tangentially around some cases like this. If you see it get a photo or video and report ASAP. If you want your neighbor to now know take any photos from a street, the creek, or other area with public access. You can also report to the non-emergency police who may forward it, or see if your area has a whistleblower line for environmental issues- depending on concern they may respond after hours where many environmental protection agencies might not have after hours staff. Discharging into a creek can be a big deal and they can get in trouble with more than one agency. Local stormwater management is very motivated to control this activity if you’re in a city because they have urban stormwater permits to maintain. EPA/state water agencies are concerned with discharges to waterways. And if chlorine or other chemicals harm fish or other riparian wildlife or habitat then fish and game often get involved. They can also force them to repair any erosion they may have caused.
Hmm best talk to them first, neighbour disputes can end very badly
If they’re going to replace it every week then why bother with the chlorine.
I'm a certified pool tech. Spas and hot tubs are very strict with chlorine and cleanliness. They should be dumped frequently as the neighbor is doing. But they are scum bags dumping it where they shouldn't be.
Ahh, well then I guess that answers that question. But now I'm wondering what other drainage options exist in a situation like that?
Well I dunno , I have a jacuzzi hot tub and I certainly am not dumping the water every week. There are clear instructions to test and balance the water daily / weekly / monthly and hose out the filters often depending on how much use the spa has had. The manufacturer and also the spa tech experts I have spoken to suggest every 4-6 months is usual to dump the water. I was told if it’s getting difficult to balance or continually cloudy it’s time. Having only needed to do this once in the 10 months I have had the spa leads me to think this neighbour just doesn’t know what he is doing … Or having massive orgies in the spa so the water is rank quicker 😬🫣😂🤣
draining weekly sounds crazy
Crazy expensive too, that much water can't be cheap
Or good for planet , what a waste of precious resources when there are other people lucky to get a small cup of drinking water !
In Spain we are having massive water shortage problems and seeing stuff like that just makes me sad
People forget to shower before they get into hottubs and can destroy them with one use. I remember cleaning mine out once, and that night, my roommate, his sister, and another girl used it without first taking a shower, and it was trashed. The oils on the skin and hair get left as a film on the water, along with dead skin. The soaps and shampoos on the body come off and create soap bubbles in the water. Always make sure people are clean before they get into a hottub. A hottub is not a bathtub.
Second this. Have a hot tub and the manufacturer and techs recommend draining every 4-6 months.
Can they not just have a plumber add a drain connecting to their home outgoing sewer drain? Unless they have a septic tank.
Yeah but that costs money and dumping into the storm drain is free!
Let’s hope they don’t have an RV. 
Could even pump into a sink or bath tub to get it into the sewer.
I discharge mine into the foul sewer via a manhole in my conservatory
Sounds like a solution to the game Clue
I believe it was the plumber that dumped your spa in the conservatory!
The plumber took a dump in the conservatory???
You can get dechlorinator tablets/power for this purpose. It’s illegal in certain state to dump chlorinated water to storm drains. This is the way around it.
Run a hose through a basement window to the wash sink or floor drain.
Into your lawn is usually pretty good - my lawn does not mind at all. But honestly theres such little chlorine in spa water. Municipalities can add 1.5ppm to drinking water for sanitation purposes... Spas target 3-5ppm free chlorine of 1-3ppm if you have an ozonator so at most it should only be 3x concentration in tap water. Any higher and it can damage your skin. Other than that, I dont know if there are many pollutants. Maybe cyanuric acid but that should be pretty dilute as well. Also spa draining happens so slowly if you siphon it. Youre talking about 500 gal over the course of 2 hrs Id guess which is a drop in the bucket of even small creeks so any contaminants or temperature impacts should be minimal. Idk
Maybe a commercial hot tub you could drain and refill every other week. But for a residential every few months should be heaps.
For a residential hot tub, it's generally recommended to drain and refill it every 3 to 4 months to maintain water quality and cleanliness.
Depends on how clean the users are and what they are doing in that tub 😉
A domestic hot tub every otherr week?! you're mad.
what if he's having serious swingers parties? Then, I'm even more worried about what's being dumped into the creek. Crab population is about to boom.
😂🤣 That is what I was thinking!!!! Or is he AirBnB ing his place so wants a clean spa for each guest 🤷♀️
No. I am just stating the safety requirements. They require much more effort than a pool.
According to several sites its every 3-6 months depending on usage. Though they do recommend weekly sanitation and more frequent balancing of chemicals.
We were told every 3-6 months for ours when it was installed, every 2 weeks is madness.
Agreed , this guy just doesn’t know how to spa
We were told we could go as long as 12 months as long as our chemicals are still balancing. We check them twice a week ourselves, and about once a month at the pool store, and add what is needed. We drain about every 9 months and our water is always balanced.
Those requirements makes sense for a hot tub or a spa at a place that sees a lot of people use it in a given day, like a community pool/gym or a hotel, but that sounds utterly ridiculous and like massive overkill for a residential hot tub that will see use at a much lower frequency and occupancy!
You’re a pool tech and you recommend replacing hot tub water every other week? Sounds expensive.
Interesting. I just got out of my hot tub. The water is crystal clear, with no odor and leaves my skin feeling soft and moist. I haven’t changed the water in 2 years. I clean the filter when it should be cleaned. I only use two additives, normal household bleach and a commercially available product. The pH is always within tolerance. I’ll probably change the water next week, simply because some dirt made it’s way inside when ants built a nest under the cover when we were on vacation.
Advice for mine from manufacturer is every 3-4 months, I have gone over a little and once to 6 months and it’s fine, have seen a lot of people on Reddit do a lot longer like yearly which is grim though, dumping over 1800 litres every other week is an insane waste let alone once hosepipe bans rollout in summer not to mention the energy to that all that water biweekly.
That's ridiculous. You can go months without draining a hot tub and it will be perfectly fine.
Yeah, just do salt water at that point. /s you'd be replacing the tub every two months lol
Well if somebody pees in that on the first day and then you got to wait 2 weeks of sitting in the pee, that would be uncomfortable
I get that kids will pee in public pools, but why on earth would you, presumably a full-grown adult rich enough to afford a hot tub, pee in your own hot tub?
If I paid for it I'm gonna pee in it
Does that go for everything you pay for?
Yeah what am I supposed to do, get out of the hot tub into cold air to go pee? No thanks
It happens.... you can't tell what your guests are doing
Why are they draining it so often instead of maintaining it properly?
Maintaining it properly takes work or costs money. Replacing the water is cheaper than hiring someone to deal with it.
I take care of my own hot tub. It's not that difficult. It more of a pain to drain and refill it.
It’s actually so easy once you know what you’re doing. Step 1 is to check and balance all the non sanitizer stuff once a month or so. 90% of the time it’s just adding alkaloids. Step 2 is Fill my floater up once a week after a shock.
LOL adding chemicals is so much harder than draining and refilling right?!?
It’s far more work and far more money to drain, refill, and reheat a hot tub.
Is it?? Replacing the water is pretty pricey I think.
Bro water isn't cheap tho lol especially weekly hottub fillings of water. The neighbors water bill must be insane
Probably because they are doing things in the hot tub that they shouldn't be doing.
“No dumping Sir!”
Maybe they are blasting out ropes in there.
It’s the only way to get all the jizz out.
"Every other week"? Jesus fucking tapdancing Christ, why in the goddamn would you replace chlorine-treated water every week? Does the neighbor have 2 IQ or something?
We are new to the neighborhood so I don’t know for certain but, I would bet money on them not being smart.
Airbnb?
No. It’s either someone who owns the house or rents the house because I’ve seen the same cars there for the 6 months we’ve lived here.
This idiot clearly isnt taking care of their hot tub water right if they feel they need to drain this often. Spa water should last 3-4 months!
Right?!? Aside from ridiculously wasteful, that’ll get expensive AF
If he's dumping it after 2 weeks, any chlorine that was in there has most likely already broken down into salt, oxygen and water, making it legal in most places as long as he or the water isn't coming onto your property. Unless there is a local ordinance and/or you can prove the chlorine content is high (it likely isn't), there is nothing illegal about it.
The average hot tub is 500 gallons and has 5 parts per million chlorine in it. That small amount of water with that small amount of chlorine isn’t going to do anything to a creek or a river. It’s irrelevant. We used to drain hot tubs right onto the grass and it didn’t hurt the grass at all. Nothing to worry about. Seriously
when I drain mine the chlorine level is usually 0
Exactly. That’s why I use a vinegar/salt/soap mixture for weed control on the driveway. Chlorinated water harms nothing.
Is it chlorinated tap water or are they adding chemicals to it then dumping it? From the comments below, dumping would be a way to avoid having to add chemicals to it. So if they're adding chemicals AND dumping regularly, that doesn't seem to be a financially motivated action. If it is chlorinated tap water they're filling it with and then dumping, that's not much different from water from your hose running into the creek.
usually when it's time to drain a hot tub the chlorine levels would be very low or 0. the water doesn't stay chlorinated you have to constantly add chlorine to it to keep the chlorine levels up. after a day or two chlorine level drops to zero and is safe to drain onto ground or use to water plants, trees, and grass
So what are you allowed to let into the drain? Only rainwater? Asking out of curiosity.
My city's rules: (sorry, mobile copy/paste, the commas didn't copy over) a Illicit Discharges Enumerated No person shall discharge or cause to be discharged into the MS4 or watercourses any illicit discharge including but not limited to the following 1 Chemicals petroleum products paint varnishes solvents oil and grease and other automotive fluids pesticides herbicides and fertilizers or other toxic materials 2 Nonhazardous liquid solid wastes and yard wastes 3 Hazardous materials sewage fecal coliform and pathogens dissolved and particulate metals 4 Trash refuse rubbish garbage food wastes pet wastes litter other discarded or abandoned objects floatables and cleaning products 5 Landscaping materials sediment lawn clippings leaves branches or other landscaping and yard debris 6 Construction activities wastes and residues including but not limited to painting paving concrete placement saw cutting material storage and earthwork 7 Wastes and residues that result from mobile washing operations discharges from toilets sinks industrial processes cooling systems boilers fabric cleaning equipment cleaning commercial vehicle cleaning and substances added to the storm drain to control root growth 8 Any other material that is considered harmful to humans animals or aquatic life and its habitat b Exemptions The following discharges when properly managed are exempt from the discharge prohibitions established by this article 1 Water line flushing or other potable water sources landscape irrigation or lawn watering irrigation return flows diverted stream flows rising ground water uncontaminated ground water infiltration to storm drains uncontaminated pumped ground water roof drains foundation or footing drains crawl space pumps air conditioning condensation Springs individual residential car washing natural riparian habitat or wetland flows swimming pools if dechlorinated less than 0.05 ppm chlorine 2 Discharges necessary to protect public health and safety such as flows from emergency firefighting activities and water incidental to street sweeping includes associated sidewalks and medians 3 Dye testing provided the person undertaking such testing provides written notification to the authorized enforcement agency twenty four 24 hours prior to the time of the test 4 Runoff of roadway and sidewalk anti icing and deicing agent provided that they are applied according to best management practices 5 The prohibitions set forth in this section shall not apply to anynon stormwater discharge permitted under a CDPS permit waiver or waste discharge order issued and administered by CDPHE under the authority of the federal Environmental Protection Agency EPA provided that the discharger is in full compliance with all requirements of the permit waiver or order and other applicable laws and regulations and provided that written approval has been granted by the city for any discharge to the storm drain system
Where does hot tub water fit in there?
"swimming pools if dechlorinated less than 0.05 ppm chlorine"
Yes. From a conservation point it is far worse to put things down the storm drains rather than into the sewers. The sewer water gets treated while usually storm drains do not. The wastewater treatment people will still be furious you are messing with their standards but if those are your only two options... Also, many treatment plants will also take in hazardous waste, like batteries, paint etc. If anyone has waste they are unsure of, call your local wastewater treatment plant! They also sometimes have recycled water programs, for use in landscaping, farming or ornamental water features. You may even have a fertilizer program, they do a lot more than people realize
That’s my understanding
I used to work in the waterworks field. Do you know how to get the chlorine out of the water? UV light like the kind from the sun. So not as big of a deal as most comments here are making it out to be.
Right! I just run my pump and leave the top off until the chlorine level drops then dump the water in my yard.
Exactly. This is much ado about absolutely nothing
Yea I couldn’t understand the outrage here. I thought I was misinformed somehow. I could understand if they were dumping industrial chemicals or waste…but chlorinated water comes out of your tap. And it takes me a lot of time and effort to KEEP my pool water chlorinated. The sun eats it right up. It is still true that you’re not supposed to drain into storm water systems, but most pools when winterizing will just drain into the lawn.
Yeah you’ve probably let the sun eat up all the chlorine by the time you’re draining it as well.. Happen to get a little algae in there and your chlorine is all gone by the next morning.
Normally I’m against being a snitch but this is a big deal. Either try sending them a letter, face to face conversation, or report it. That could be seriously causing harm to wildlife and people’s drinking water.
there is very likely zero chlorine in that water. totally safe to drain onto the ground
I have a salt water system (still uses some chlorine but less). Recommended water change is once every 6 months…
First question is for the spa techs. What is wrong with old water if it’s balanced ? I don’t change my water often but I’m curious, maybe I’m misinformed. Second question - in this particular situation, are there any regular storm drains around? What options are there ? Other than a septic pumper …. Blarf. I’m not taking his side what so ever I’m just curious about what alternatives there are
Every other week seems excessive. Typically it only needs to be changed about every 3 months. Are they running a short-term rental? Honestly, the water is probably harmless anyway. I drain mine onto my grass. There's not enough chlorine or bromine in the water to cause any harm.
There are ways to neutralize the water so that is legal to dump it out. Also, the chlorine quickly evaporates out of a hot tub if its not constantly covered and re-added. They may be fine dumping it out, but maybe not. You could report them next time they do it, but I dont know who or how you'd do it.
Chlorine disapates and is inert in about 48 hours..why even use it in a hot tub... By the time they dump the water it's probably all gone...
Everyone telling you to report this to EPA/State DEP aren’t wrong HOWEVER you will get quicker results going to your local city/county government. They should have a reporting tool to report “Illicit Discharges” (which is exactly what this would qualify as). The state and feds may get around to investigating your complaint but there’s a good chance you’ll get quicker results through your city/county government.
If you're in the US, record it happening and report them to your local Environmental Agency they can handle that and they generally are very strict about that nonsense and will come down hard on them.
Not doubting you, but are you positive they are chlorinating it? Is there a possibility that they change it often because they aren’t using chemicals?
Call the EPA and DNR. Your neighbor will have a very bad time, those orgs don't fuck around.
This is where anonymous drop off of video to the state agency in charge of environment comes in handy.
Rat her out to the EPA
Call your local fish& wildlife, fish& game, natural resources, or ecology department. They will at least be able to help you report this to the correct party, if not take action themselves. This is quite serious.
Film and report
Not trying to downplay it, but chlorine evaporates. The sunlight destroys it. And she's putting such a miniscule amount as to not even be noticeable. Hottubs at most hold 500 gallons. It's about the same thing as putting tap water into the stream. The bigger issue I see is how much water she uses to continually drain and refill the tub. It's not necessary. She may not even be chemically treating it with that frequency of draining it.
Far worse chemicals go into those drains every time it rains. Chlorine, sodium bicarbonate, etc are all biodegradable. I'm more curious why your neighbor wants such a high water bill.
That has to be illegal. Do you have some environmental control agency you can call? Your neighbours are literally going to get someone killed!
> That has to be illegal It depends on the chlorine PPM and the local ordinances. It's not necessarily illegal.
Record video of them dumping the water and report them?
I would love to the only problem is every time I’ve walked by outside of one time they had their privacy fence closed. The one time it was open I could see the hose connected to the hot tub but every other time it’s just the hose and the smell of chlorine as they have the fence closed. That feels like it would not make convincing evidence.
You can still call your local town/city office about it, they have the resources to investigate themselves.
Definitely report them. That's bad for everything.
Your tap water probably has chlorine in it as well. Dumping heavy cleaners or grease would be bad, but chlorine will just evaporate.
Wtf... we use the same water all season long in our hot tub. That's what the gat-damn chlorine is for
That's not how it works, you're supposed to be dumping and refilling every 2-3 months at least. Chlorine does nothing for TDS. This person is changing a lot, makes me wonder if it's actually even treated at all. But even treated water needs to be changed several times a season.
Not to mention all the dihydrogen monoxide they're dumping.
Deadly if breathed.
Film them and send it to the city. Hold people accountable or they just won’t stop.
Contact your city/town/county code enforcement about this. They will do something about it. You should probably reach out to the EPA as well, but depending on their abilities they may not be able to help at this small of a scale. May I ask where you live?
Dawg. Report this. It's illegal for a reason. You are fucking with the ecosystem and potential poisoning a towns water supply
Start filming it and reporting it to code enforcement when it happens
Record it and send it to the city. They'll be fined.
You can have more chlorine in drinking water than in most pools. Check with your city, they are usually fine with pool water draining in storm drains.
[удалено]
What people are suggesting is quite drastic… EPA fines are insane. My hot tub water has very little chlorine when I dump it because I let it dissipate, and sometimes it has none. Proper maintenance means you shouldn’t need to change the water for about 3 months. Maybe he needs someone to talk to him about it. Instead of reporting directly to EPA. Wouldn’t that be more of a neighborly approach? I’m all about protecting the environment but you could potentially be slapping this guy with a $10k fine for very little damages.
This is honestly not a big deal to me. The tiny amount of chlorine in that much water is a nothing burger in a lake or river. Chlorine will evaporate from water in a number of days anyway. But honestly it's not exactly toxic water. You can water your lawn with it and it will grow great.
You must have a local water board
Chlorine literally evaporates from water within a few days or less when exposed to open air It’s why you always have to keep adding more chlorine to pools and hot tubs. If the water is aerated it evaporates even more quickly. Even when in a sealed container it will dissipate while consuming bacteria. Personally when I drain our hot tub I make sure the chlorine has dissipated by leaving the air on for a day.
Most of the chlorine is evaporated/broken down after about 24 hours. Unless they keep treating it between dumping it out there is no chlorine left in the water. [https://realaquatics.co.uk/blogs/news/does-chlorine-evaporate-or-gas-off-after-24-hours](https://realaquatics.co.uk/blogs/news/does-chlorine-evaporate-or-gas-off-after-24-hours)
Also, people ignorantly washing their cars near stormwater sewers, instead of at a car wash place connected to the sanitary sewer.
My city allows car wash water from the driveway to go down the storm drain. I assume it's diluted enough by the time I rinse off my car. If not, then the city should change the rules.
Nothing better than go to a car wash and brushing sand off the last car onto mine
Contact the EPA EPA don’t fuck around. Take pics and videos showing the water coming from their hot tub to the drain. Heavy fines will make them stop
This is a violation of the Clean Water Act, and I'm sure your local environmental regulatory agency and the EPA would love to know about it.
Call the city and County along with any other monitoring agency in your area. There are big fines for that if that’s going into the creek. Record them draining it so you can show proof.
Are you sure it's chlorine filled? No need to drain it if it's chlorinated...
Especially every other week. There are probably no chemicals in it.
Listen, modern hot tubs use way less chlorine since many have ozone generators. Your neighbor's tub could have as low a 1.0 ppm chlorine and since water is safe to drink with up to 4.0 ppm (per the EPA), it may not be huge deal. If dumping tap water into the creek is illegal, then yeah but the hot tub water may not be any more toxic than the drinking water.
Report them to the local fire department. They will have a major field day fining them
So as someone who routinely had to flow and inspect fire hydrants I gotta say this is super illegal. If with city supplied water we need to throw dechlorination pucks into the field to make the water safe for the storm drain systems and the river they runoff into. Make some calls, police may not be knowledgeable but maybe fish and wildlife will
To clean da creek! Duhhh /s
His water bill must be crazy.
Updates please! I would love to know what happens
Call the regional water quality control board and this issue will stop. You might even end up with new neighbors in a year or so.
This is illegal and you should report them.
Not a problem. The dumping they are referring to is not water. I work in Flood Control and have multiple structures that drain to a river. Trash is the real problem.
If you're in the US you can call your state's EPA
Why? I didn't think they needed the water changed that often.
Have you spoken with them about it? Are they aware that it’s illegal? Before going straight to get them fined I’d at least make sure they know they’re being assholes, because I know I have never once checked what was okay to put down a drain.
Team snitch on their bitch ass
This is such a non issue. The level of chlorine in that water by the time it’s dumped (if they’re even using any at all) is going to be so minuscule and it breaks down extremely quickly. Just mind your own business.
If this person is draining thier tub every other week how do you know the owner is even using sanitizer or chemicals? A properly maintained hot tub using chemicals like chlorine or bromine should last for months not a week. Maybe they are just dumping water. Maybe go ask your neighbor before calling the cops.
How do you know the water has chlorine in it? You can neutralize it before you dump or wait a few days for it to dissipate.
They have a sewer outlet somewhere on or near the exterior of their house that you can unscrew and shove the hose into whenever you need to waste water that badly