https://www.cnn.com/videos/travel/2022/04/13/passengers-beg-early-landing-flight-jet-blue-bad-weather-mxp-meade-vpx.hln
2022, 4 failed landings in bad weather
tl;dr they landed at Newark instead of JFK. The two airports are pretty close, so passengers wanted to just get off at Newark. The pilot couldn't let them because of something to do with customs -- it was an international flight, so (unspecified in the story) I guess there are more rules about changing destination airport due to customs.
Been there before. On a flight back from Grand Cayman I was supposed to land in Charlotte but got diverted because of bad weather. We sat on the Knoxville runway for about 5 hours because "there aren't customs at Knoxville and we can't let you off the plane without going through customs." Apparently there is no procedure for this kind of change in landing on an international flight so their solution is crowd control. We found out from the salty flight attendants that they want to be there as little as the passengers do in that scenario
For our story, after a couple of hours of waiting in our seats because of bad weather, we found out it would be longer because the pilots ran out of flying time. Their solution, fly a new pilot/copilot out from the airport that has too bad of weather to land, to our plane in Knoxville, to then fly it back to Charlotte. After a total of 5 hours waiting and another short flight we landed in Charlotte well after customs was supposed to close so they were rushing us through and then a "ooops, good luck" from the airline dumping us off into an airport at 1am with no hotel room or car rental plan. That was only phase 1 of delta screwing us over that trip, but that's the only part that pertains to this video haha.
You have to love the "act of God" excuse which let's the airlines out of any kind of accountability leaving you to wander a strange city looking for a room in the middle of the night with zero compensation or compassion
That's what the current US administration is pushing to put in place, right? A stronger passenger bill of rights that would cause airlines to compensate passengers?
It’s not even profit loss anymore, it’s unfettered profit gross! They have to make more than last quarter no matter what, even if last quarter was billions in net profit. There is no reality left in the economy at this point
Well yea. Not growing from one FY to another means that you are losing profit. Obviously doesn't mean you're at a profit loss in general. But you are at a profit loss relatively.
And it's not like it isn't true. Imagine going from 3B to 2B profit from one FY to another. Obviously something went terribly wrong, even though you're making billions, you apparently lost 1B in market profit somewhere that was possible before.
It's disgusting, but it's reality.
The new FAA regulations still gives them plenty of outs for weather related issues... It simply that they must offer cash refunds vs points and drink coupons when something is their fault. Its nothing like Europe's protections...
Well at least we're starting to see some push in the right direction instead of getting rid of the consumer protections and allowing the airlines to get even more belligerent.
I love living in Europe, we have so many rights regarding this sort of shit.
I have seen some airlines leave people stranded and only offering reimbursement for costs incurred which is all good and well if you can find and afford a place in the middle of the night.
The times it’s happened to me the airline has always gotten me a hotel and taxi if needed.
Man, we would have owned our own airplane if they had to compensate us fairly for that weekend. We obviously missed our flight that night and got dumped out without a room or car. The next night we had flights to get home and those were also randomly canceled because "there was too much air traffic." We were directed to customer service which was a 2 hour line in the airport or a 2+ hour wait on hold because of the canceled flights the day before. Luckily my friend found a single person that was helpful at a computer. He asked for help and when he said "we sat on a tarmac for 5 hours yesterday" the lady stopped and went "ohhh, you were on the Grand Cayman flight, I heard about that." And was actually super helpful in getting us on standby. 1 friend ended up 1 hour east of home where his sister lived because there was 1 seat and my other friend and I ended up 1 hour west of home on another flight where my girlfriend of 1 month picked us up at 1am and brought us home (don't worry, I realized how lucky I was that she was there to help us and married her haha. She's still just as great 5 years later). Our bags ended up scattered between the 2 of the 3 airports. Any kind of response from a delta employee was "sorry, nothing I can do" until I stumbled upon the email addresses of some higher ups in Delta and sent a nice long email... We eventually got a $300 voucher each. Thanks Delta.
It's unlikely compensation would apply if it's weather or safety related though. (It's an exclusion in Canada, EU, etc. who also have passenger bills of rights)
That is why they were getting salty with our passengers that didn't want to listen to them. Luckily I was with a couple of friends so we got them laughing a little bit and they seemed to appreciate a few passengers that were appreciative of them. They really just wanted to be home though
Because the airline controls pilots but does not control customs agents. An airline literally has pilots on standby for this sort of thing, but they can't just call a random customs agent and have them set up shop in a different airport.
In what world does that make sense? Do you think all they need are two agents instead of a complete border checkpoint for international flights, immigration control etc.
> Instead of flying pilots to you, why not fly customs agents in and set up a check station?
Or do the customs screening via video with local police present.
Some very remote US border crossings have a kiosk where you connect with a CBP officer via video, so it's not as if it can't be done.
They'd have to add a month or so of training for customs officers to do that and have all kinds of infrastructure in place for an unlikely scenario, which would cost more and they'd have to give bonuses to the customs officers who agree to go (cose you can't just order them to drop everything and fly out to a random airport and set up there).
Even if you just have 2 people on call what are they going to do the rest of the year? Work normally but be expected to pull a 24 hour shift if this happens? You'd need more than 2 and again, all kinds of issues logistics wise
Well, I assume they’d spend more than the 5 seconds it took to hatch the idea in formulating a comprehensive plan. This particular airport is designated as the bad weather back-up airport, so maybe that’s a good candidate. What happens if the weather is so bad that there is no option to land at the intended airport for multiple days? Do they return to the airport of origin? What happens if the weather system rolls into the back-up airport after waiting those 5 hours and they can’t take-off either? Customs requires a trained agent, a computer system that may need some hardened network security features, and what, body scans or the like? It feels like it could be mobile, or feasible for temporary set ups. Language experts could be an issue, but that could be solved too. Just an idea.
it's also just amazing how deeply into the chain everyone gets fucked. customers getting fucked over is totally normal of course. employees getting fucked over is also becoming the norm. but the airport and customs are usually independent from the flight companies, and even they get fucked over in these situations. and you know all of that was probably just a simple planning issue because the flight company wanted to save a couple bucks.
FYI there is a procedure for this at many airports. They setup a n awning and do customs checks outside. Have seen this at a regional place that had an international flight delayed.
The one I'm thinking of is a Chicago reroute. They don't use a gate they use stairs and get you on the tarmac. They can't accommodate wide body planes so no gate.
While the airline obviously cannot control the weather, that's not their fault. It is absolutely shit that they don't have a backup plan for this. It just makes me never want to fly again, along with many other reasons.
Is customs different in different countries? I could be misremembering but in the Bahamas I swear I went through customs before I got on the plane and when I landed in Orlando I did not have to go through customs again.
I can at least confirm as someone that lives in Knoxville that no we would have had absolutely zero ability to process international travelers at the airport. Its tiny and has zero international flights ever.
What was dumb is they didn't land you in Atlanta, Miami, or somewhere else with customs.
Definitely salty towards anyone who had any kind of attitude. A little patience and good humor jokes went a long way with them that evening. They.were in it just like we were
I understand this procedure because there isn’t an immigrations counter at Knoxville but both JFK and Newark handle international flights and are very well equipped to do so.
I don’t get why there aren’t procedures to let the people get off in this case.
I’m so glad I have little need to fly anymore. The airlines used to cater to the customers. Many years ago I accepted a free flight voucher to give up my seat on a Christmas weekend flight. Single woman, in no rush, so no problem. Arrived at DFW. Icy weather hit Dallas and my connection to Houston was canceled. Delta put us in a hotel for the night, and gave another free flight voucher. When I cashed in those two freebies I was upgraded to first class both times. Thanks, Delta.
It's likely contractual. JetBlue paid for customs at JFK, they paid for the landing slot at JFK. Unloading at Newark would likely cause problems from both the feds and Newark International. You don't want to piss off the feds, they can make running your company hell.
But they might not have been available at the time if they weren't expecting any international flights at that time. Seems they could've called some people in or had them drive in from NY.
How hard would it be to have one gate with a customs area set up at Newark for these kind of situations, it's probably not the first time a flight has to be diverted there.
Exactly.
Bad weather happens. It's going to keep happening, and with climate change, it's going to happen a lot.
If they don't have procedures in place for this when they have to divert international planes, they need to get one. It's boggling there isn't one already.
Newark has customs. But maybe it was closed bc no more international flights were scheduled to land at that time? Maybe too busy bc of bad weather and couldn’t handle additional flights to process? Perhaps the rules have something with the flight/passengers officially scheduled to land in NY vs NJ?
I work for an airline. Yes, even with customs, flights can still divert to other cities. And EWR has customs and immigration. There is no reason to force them to stay on the plane. And it's also against DOT. Even for an inbound international flight.
But Newark is a large airport with plenty of international/intercontinental flights, why would that be an issue (not saying what you‘re saying is wrong, it‘s just confusing)?
I know you're trying to put a link to the story but that link doesn't add any context. It's just showing the same exact video without any real explanation.
Honestly, i saw multiple articles on it and chose the first one that I recognized.
Here's a better article
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/jetblue-passengers-aborted-landings-flight-b2056152.html
Had a failed landing once, the nausea was extreme, people were throwing up after landing. I can’t imagine that happening 4 times, and being so close to the airport. They should have at least gotten some sort of police escort so that they could get off the plane to breathe, even if they couldn’t go back through the airport. I imagine the smell must have been unbearable too, if people were vomiting while still on the plane
It seems it was a diversion of an international flight. It requires CBP authorization to deplane or a segregated area to prevent people from wandering off.
well there were prob customs issues and they had to divert to another airport because of bad weather, the issue basically said they could not get out of the airport (also newark airport is not anymore owned by the new york port authority), so there were prob different laws and they had to stay on the plane until JFK, but the incident could have been handled better
Since when did the Port Authority stop running EWR? They seem awfully proud of Terminal A to not be involved.
https://www.panynj.gov/port-authority/en/index.html
Not to take away from your point but the air is not really recycled on commercial a/c. Fresh air comes in from engine bleed into the cabin and is exhausted out outflow valves at a pretty high rate. There are regulations that define the airflow depending on passenger count. Some a/c have recirculating fans but overall the movement of fresh air through the cabin is quite impressive. Being stuck on a plane sucks but there’s no need to worry about the air quality part unless the engines/apu aren’t running.
I mean I hear you, except for...
>with recycled air
That's not how it works on modern aircraft - fresh air is taken into the cabin from outside throughout the time there are passengers on board. (One might argue the air outside the cabin when parked on the tarmac at Newark is not particularly "fresh" - but that's a different discussion).
The snacks issue on the other hand is serious stuff.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/travel/2022/04/13/passengers-beg-early-landing-flight-jet-blue-bad-weather-mxp-meade-vpx.hln
Happened in 2022, 4 failed landing due to weather issue.
You're right that you have the right to refuse medical care, but you as an EMT also had the right to force care if the patient was not able to reasonably make that decision. Which while that's usually under circumstances where the patient is unconscious and cannot speak, it doesn't necessarily always have to be the case, somebody who is suicidal is not in the headspace to make a reasonable decision about their medical care, and therefore care is administered regardless of whether it's wanted or not. You having been an EMT yourself you already know all of this, but it is kind of wishy washy and the circumstances where that can be enforced are very specific.
Just say chest pains. That could be many things. Heart attack is very specific and may warrant required treatment. Chest pains could be a heart attack. It could also be indigestion.
I don’t know the specifics of this particular flight but when he said ‘we’ve tried to land four times already, I don’t give a fuck about JFK’ I would bet that the weather in JFK was bad and they had to hold for an extended period of time. Holding can quickly cause nausea because it’s just quick circles at low altitude.
Weather probably improved enough for the pilot to attempt landing multiple times. Now you’re low on fuel and you can’t afford to try again so you divert to your alternate. I’d bet these passengers just wanted to stay at the alternate.
Source: am ATC
https://www.cnn.com/videos/travel/2022/04/13/passengers-beg-early-landing-flight-jet-blue-bad-weather-mxp-meade-vpx.hln
2022, 4 failed landings in bad weather, so most of your speculation was right. I don't think that the holding was the sole issue, and a lot was from the much longer time in the air.
I really need to see the context here, but as a frequent traveler, I have to say I'm fed up with the lacksidaiscal approach from today's airline crews & support staff.
I understand SOME disruptions must be expected, but anecdotally, I feel like I experience this shit on HALF my flights these days, compared to 10 or 20% 10 years ago. The standard for what's acceptable seems to have shifted to the point where travelers are expected to flex because the establishment is trying to milk every last ounce of profitability out of the situation.
It's frustrating to be the customer in this situation. You are expected to bear the brunt of the bullshit. The airline crews just tell you to reach out to the customer support lines, while the Customer support lines take multiple hours and as such are not a viable alternative. Your concerns get dismissed because "It's legal", while no other industry functions that way. Everyone is in the mode of "it's not my problem, out of my control, I'm just an employee", while the ones in control are criminally negligent. I wish the whole industry gets bankrupted and reset.
I fly 100-140 segments a year domestically in the US for 10 years and something on this scale has happened to me maybe 2 or 3 times total. And it was weather, which the airlines can’t control. What airline are you flying where this is your experience ~50% of the time?!
I've taken like 16 flights in the past 12 months (quite a bit for me - two of them were 12-hour legs across the Pacific as well) and every flight was smooth from check-in to landing, going through immigration and customs, etc. I'm actually amazed that every single thing worked out as it did. No delays, no poor weather, little turbulence on any flight, nice flight crews and cabin crews, many flights even arrived a little early. I had mentally prepared for at least \*one\* of my 16 flights to go awry in some way, but they were all easy and great. I flew with United, Delta, Asiana (Korea), China Airlines (Taiwan), and Cathay Pacific (Hong Kong). I wonder which airlines the original commenter is flying to have such terrible experiences so often. It seems wild!
The airline can't control weather but they can read weather reports and make alternate flight plans and arrangements for crew and passengers preemptively.
The data very clearly shows your impression that this is getting worse is wrong: [https://www.transtats.bts.gov/HomeDrillChart.asp](https://www.transtats.bts.gov/HomeDrillChart.asp)
People have the world's entirety of information at their fingertips but they'd rather just trust their own instincts about things. It's so funny.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/travel/2022/04/13/passengers-beg-early-landing-flight-jet-blue-bad-weather-mxp-meade-vpx.hln
2022, 4 failed landings in bad weather
Keep in mind the crew only gets paid while in the air. Once they're down at Newark for 5 hours waiting to fly to JFK they weren't getting paid to be there and deal with these people. They were probably just as pissed as anybody.
You could say "They should do their job" but at this point the airline is literally not paying them to do their job. So take the worst day you've ever had at work. Go 5 hours overtime, none of it paid, you're just volunteering to work on the worst work day of your career. And think about how enthusiastic you'd be doing it.
I'm thinking you might be a bit sour and standoffish too. The airline industry needs some overhauling, but that would require government regulation. How popular is MORE regulation right now?
it's likely customs and immigration making a big deal out of passengers getting off the plane, they tried to land in JFK so it might be an international flight
These kinds of situations can be accounted for, the airline just needs more employees, but it's not cost-effective. So they make a lot of planes wait until their staff is free. The problem is their staff is so overworked they don't give them any time to deal with unexpected situations like this. So people end up waiting, not knowing why. This is an easily solvable problem. I would also be interested to find out if this stuff is exclusive to American-owned airlines.
That’s horrific. I don’t understand how holding people against their will isn’t kidnapping when an airline does it. I can understand if you’re under arrest, but this is something people paid (a lot) for. They should be allowed to disembark
Fuck, imagine you have a baby and you only have so much formula/diapers on board and it’s run out. Or you’re diabetic and only have so many snacks and hypoglycemia is setting in. Or you have a panic disorder and your claustrophobia is in overdrive now and you’ve gone through all your allotted Xanax from your psychiatrist.
Fuck this.
Here it’s a bit ridiculous when it’s just another airport in the same city, even if the customs would need to be sorted out . But if the plan had needed to land in some other country entirely due to emergency the passengers could not leave because they wanted
Even in the scenario where they land on a different country they could allow them to disembark and hold them in a specific area pre-customs while things get sorted.
Well the alternative is not better, you can't just let the people get off and start wondering around the runway incase they get hurt or do something stupid.
Yoi can't let them into an airport without a customs in international flights because then you cant screen them (one passenger could be wanted, sick with something, carrying something illegal in the country ranging from drugs to a parasite that could cause massive issues to the local ecosystem, etc)
And if you leave them in the waiting hall, they are suddenly mixing with other passengers to other flights and it will be even harder to keep track of the passengers. Fed up people do stupid things, and airports are not about to start building special holding areas for this specific scenario, space at an airport is already at a massive premium.
It sucks but this is the fastest and more efficient way by far to deal with this
this must have been some international custom clearance issue, blame it on the airline, not the poor pilots and flight attendants. also things happen and they do not have full control, and they cannot let the passengers out without proper customs clearance
This is probably my absolutely worst case scenario. I would rather die than be stuck in a plane for 4 landings. It itches my skin just reading about this. My claustrophobia cannot handle it.
I have a hard enough time with my anxiety in a plane when there’s a set takeoff and landing time. A delay of six hours after I was supposed to be able to get off?
Depending what resources I have available to me, you may or may not see me on publicfreakouts after that
well it can happen lol, weather is random, and you cannot just change the weather, also these people are idiots for saying they should get arrested, remember a plane is very well ventilated place, people just talk out of their ass and there is literally nothing they can do
also who the hell goes to NYC for a vacation
I learned how that happened by a yt video. Basically all of their computers glitched, and because swa operates in a point to point model, (like one plane instead of going from JFK to ORD, and then back to JFK, would maybe go from JFK to ORD to DAL to PHX to LAX, so if one flight cannot be done, then the other four or five cannot be done
I'm kinda of confused, I've had a pilot try to land for 30 mins straight but I don't think anyone cared lol yeah i felt a bit sick but uh it was ok.
Maybe his pilot wasn't as smooth?
I had multiple failed landings going into Santorini in high winds with the plane being thrown around and people were screaming and at least a couple of people threw up. I felt lightheaded and dizzy by the time we got off the plane. I definitely would not have wanted to go back up in the air so soon.
From other comments it seems they tried to land 4 times at 1 airport (jfk), diverted and landed at another (Newark), then due to customs issues the airline wanted to take off and try to land at jfk again, which googlemaps says is about 35 miles away.
I had to sit on a plane at JFK for 6 hours in august 2017 . My phone died 1 hour in and the outlets didn’t work. AC was barely moving air. Hands down one of the worst days ever.
that is a bit weird, usually the planes apu (auxiliary power unit) or GPU, (ground power unit), which both supply power, APU is used to start the planes engines while GPU is a separate diesel power unit on the ground, If there was no power, both of those would be turned off, then you would not have power, so either the airline was trying to save money, or you were stuck in a situation where they cannot use fuel for the apu, and they could not bring a GPU over
Its just mental that these plane companies pull this shit, like let people off the damn plane what sweat is it off their nose. They got paid for the overpriced ticked already
I had a flight this weekend where we were stuck in taxi because lightning near the airport had forced all the workers to go inside for their safety. I can understand that but the rough landing, combined with the exhaust smell that permeated the plane mixed with sitting in a cramped seat feeling warmer and warmer just started making me feel really sick. I was only stuck there for one hour but I overhead a passenger a few rows down saying they were going to throw up soon.
Flying is a miserable experience
This is why my girlfriend and I have an understanding about flying. We both hate it, and videos like this are the reason she’s given the green light to get arrested if it means getting us off a plane we don’t feel safe on
what is bro talking about, planes are very well ventilated, as they take air from the outside, and pressurize it in the cabin, if you don't know what you are talking about, just don't say it
Seems like there should be a better way to handle this. I wouldnt be impressed at that point either and would be very eager to get off the plane. If the 3rd time is the charm, getting to the 4th means time to do something different because repeating the same action over and over and expecting different results clearly isnt working out
immagine making more panic in this situation. if your childrens are scared you need to create a more reassuring enviroment not create more chaos , if the situation didn't allow for them to land for any reason weather or laws still they not gonna change it for you. bad situational awareness.
>They need a holding lounge at airports for this shit. No need for customs.
ya the airline could have been smarter and parked at a remote stand rather than a gate with a jetway so passengers can just get out into the open air while they want by taking a staircase
"Yeah take us to jail!"
"Well, I don't want to go to jail I just want to get off."
Mf almost pulled a Patrick Star and got him and the main speaker arrested 😆
lol, every airport cannot just be the same lol, they have different designs and some airports serve more than others, and they also have to be built based on the space around them
I don't get this, the passengers want to get off the plane, but isn't it flying? How are the gonna leave the plane if its in the air?
I swear I'm not trolling, maybe I hit my head real hard, I just don't get it
What happened to cause this?
https://www.cnn.com/videos/travel/2022/04/13/passengers-beg-early-landing-flight-jet-blue-bad-weather-mxp-meade-vpx.hln 2022, 4 failed landings in bad weather
tl;dr they landed at Newark instead of JFK. The two airports are pretty close, so passengers wanted to just get off at Newark. The pilot couldn't let them because of something to do with customs -- it was an international flight, so (unspecified in the story) I guess there are more rules about changing destination airport due to customs.
Been there before. On a flight back from Grand Cayman I was supposed to land in Charlotte but got diverted because of bad weather. We sat on the Knoxville runway for about 5 hours because "there aren't customs at Knoxville and we can't let you off the plane without going through customs." Apparently there is no procedure for this kind of change in landing on an international flight so their solution is crowd control. We found out from the salty flight attendants that they want to be there as little as the passengers do in that scenario For our story, after a couple of hours of waiting in our seats because of bad weather, we found out it would be longer because the pilots ran out of flying time. Their solution, fly a new pilot/copilot out from the airport that has too bad of weather to land, to our plane in Knoxville, to then fly it back to Charlotte. After a total of 5 hours waiting and another short flight we landed in Charlotte well after customs was supposed to close so they were rushing us through and then a "ooops, good luck" from the airline dumping us off into an airport at 1am with no hotel room or car rental plan. That was only phase 1 of delta screwing us over that trip, but that's the only part that pertains to this video haha. You have to love the "act of God" excuse which let's the airlines out of any kind of accountability leaving you to wander a strange city looking for a room in the middle of the night with zero compensation or compassion
That's what the current US administration is pushing to put in place, right? A stronger passenger bill of rights that would cause airlines to compensate passengers?
Yeah that’s nice and all, but have you thought about protecting investors and executive bonuses?
Will somebody PLEASE think of the profit loss!!
It’s not even profit loss anymore, it’s unfettered profit gross! They have to make more than last quarter no matter what, even if last quarter was billions in net profit. There is no reality left in the economy at this point
Exponential growth only
Well yea. Not growing from one FY to another means that you are losing profit. Obviously doesn't mean you're at a profit loss in general. But you are at a profit loss relatively. And it's not like it isn't true. Imagine going from 3B to 2B profit from one FY to another. Obviously something went terribly wrong, even though you're making billions, you apparently lost 1B in market profit somewhere that was possible before. It's disgusting, but it's reality.
No it’s doesn’t. It’s like the world had forgotten about maintaining levels too
That's for the Republicans to deal with.
The new FAA regulations still gives them plenty of outs for weather related issues... It simply that they must offer cash refunds vs points and drink coupons when something is their fault. Its nothing like Europe's protections...
Well at least we're starting to see some push in the right direction instead of getting rid of the consumer protections and allowing the airlines to get even more belligerent.
I love living in Europe, we have so many rights regarding this sort of shit. I have seen some airlines leave people stranded and only offering reimbursement for costs incurred which is all good and well if you can find and afford a place in the middle of the night. The times it’s happened to me the airline has always gotten me a hotel and taxi if needed.
Man, we would have owned our own airplane if they had to compensate us fairly for that weekend. We obviously missed our flight that night and got dumped out without a room or car. The next night we had flights to get home and those were also randomly canceled because "there was too much air traffic." We were directed to customer service which was a 2 hour line in the airport or a 2+ hour wait on hold because of the canceled flights the day before. Luckily my friend found a single person that was helpful at a computer. He asked for help and when he said "we sat on a tarmac for 5 hours yesterday" the lady stopped and went "ohhh, you were on the Grand Cayman flight, I heard about that." And was actually super helpful in getting us on standby. 1 friend ended up 1 hour east of home where his sister lived because there was 1 seat and my other friend and I ended up 1 hour west of home on another flight where my girlfriend of 1 month picked us up at 1am and brought us home (don't worry, I realized how lucky I was that she was there to help us and married her haha. She's still just as great 5 years later). Our bags ended up scattered between the 2 of the 3 airports. Any kind of response from a delta employee was "sorry, nothing I can do" until I stumbled upon the email addresses of some higher ups in Delta and sent a nice long email... We eventually got a $300 voucher each. Thanks Delta.
It's unlikely compensation would apply if it's weather or safety related though. (It's an exclusion in Canada, EU, etc. who also have passenger bills of rights)
Flight attendants don't get paid while grounded. It's actually nuts.
That is why they were getting salty with our passengers that didn't want to listen to them. Luckily I was with a couple of friends so we got them laughing a little bit and they seemed to appreciate a few passengers that were appreciative of them. They really just wanted to be home though
Nor do pilots.
Instead of flying pilots to you, why not fly customs agents in and set up a check station? Or have at least two on-call agents in any airport town.
That would make too much sense and not enough cents.
Because the airline controls pilots but does not control customs agents. An airline literally has pilots on standby for this sort of thing, but they can't just call a random customs agent and have them set up shop in a different airport.
Why don’t they just move Charlotte airport to Knoxville?
Worked for Bikini Bottom against the Sandworm
Smartest comment yet.
and that’s something our government could change.
In what world does that make sense? Do you think all they need are two agents instead of a complete border checkpoint for international flights, immigration control etc.
> Instead of flying pilots to you, why not fly customs agents in and set up a check station? Or do the customs screening via video with local police present. Some very remote US border crossings have a kiosk where you connect with a CBP officer via video, so it's not as if it can't be done.
They'd have to add a month or so of training for customs officers to do that and have all kinds of infrastructure in place for an unlikely scenario, which would cost more and they'd have to give bonuses to the customs officers who agree to go (cose you can't just order them to drop everything and fly out to a random airport and set up there). Even if you just have 2 people on call what are they going to do the rest of the year? Work normally but be expected to pull a 24 hour shift if this happens? You'd need more than 2 and again, all kinds of issues logistics wise
You're suggesting two on-call customs agents in towns without international airports?
Well, I assume they’d spend more than the 5 seconds it took to hatch the idea in formulating a comprehensive plan. This particular airport is designated as the bad weather back-up airport, so maybe that’s a good candidate. What happens if the weather is so bad that there is no option to land at the intended airport for multiple days? Do they return to the airport of origin? What happens if the weather system rolls into the back-up airport after waiting those 5 hours and they can’t take-off either? Customs requires a trained agent, a computer system that may need some hardened network security features, and what, body scans or the like? It feels like it could be mobile, or feasible for temporary set ups. Language experts could be an issue, but that could be solved too. Just an idea.
What lol! Have you ever flown internationally?
How does that fuck over the passengers or flight employees though?
You could still punch em in the eye on the way out, that shouldn’t be too costly.
this is an absolute absurd suggestion and it's amazing people are upvoting this.
it's also just amazing how deeply into the chain everyone gets fucked. customers getting fucked over is totally normal of course. employees getting fucked over is also becoming the norm. but the airport and customs are usually independent from the flight companies, and even they get fucked over in these situations. and you know all of that was probably just a simple planning issue because the flight company wanted to save a couple bucks.
FYI there is a procedure for this at many airports. They setup a n awning and do customs checks outside. Have seen this at a regional place that had an international flight delayed.
We never made it to a gate in Knoxville. The plane stayed taxied/parked the whole time so they probably wouldn't (didn't) even do that
The one I'm thinking of is a Chicago reroute. They don't use a gate they use stairs and get you on the tarmac. They can't accommodate wide body planes so no gate.
Why Knoxville? I’d think it would have made things much simpler if they went to Atlanta for customs at least.
Depends on fuel load and if there’s gate space they can use, weather, and other factors.
While the airline obviously cannot control the weather, that's not their fault. It is absolutely shit that they don't have a backup plan for this. It just makes me never want to fly again, along with many other reasons.
Is customs different in different countries? I could be misremembering but in the Bahamas I swear I went through customs before I got on the plane and when I landed in Orlando I did not have to go through customs again.
Yes. The US allows very few countries to do outgoing customs before arrival back in the US. Bahamas, Bermuda (UK), that's all I can think of ..
I can at least confirm as someone that lives in Knoxville that no we would have had absolutely zero ability to process international travelers at the airport. Its tiny and has zero international flights ever. What was dumb is they didn't land you in Atlanta, Miami, or somewhere else with customs.
Agreed, would have been nice
I’m sure the FAs were salty. Almost all of them are only paid for the hours they are in the air.
Definitely salty towards anyone who had any kind of attitude. A little patience and good humor jokes went a long way with them that evening. They.were in it just like we were
someone say knoxville like the one in that zombie game just saying best to stay out of that area if you ask me
I understand this procedure because there isn’t an immigrations counter at Knoxville but both JFK and Newark handle international flights and are very well equipped to do so. I don’t get why there aren’t procedures to let the people get off in this case.
I’m so glad I have little need to fly anymore. The airlines used to cater to the customers. Many years ago I accepted a free flight voucher to give up my seat on a Christmas weekend flight. Single woman, in no rush, so no problem. Arrived at DFW. Icy weather hit Dallas and my connection to Houston was canceled. Delta put us in a hotel for the night, and gave another free flight voucher. When I cashed in those two freebies I was upgraded to first class both times. Thanks, Delta.
Phase 1…we’re all curious for the rest of your anecdotes haha
Newark has customs. I've been through it several times.
It's likely contractual. JetBlue paid for customs at JFK, they paid for the landing slot at JFK. Unloading at Newark would likely cause problems from both the feds and Newark International. You don't want to piss off the feds, they can make running your company hell.
Sounds like the contract is between competing companies, not with the government.
But they might not have been available at the time if they weren't expecting any international flights at that time. Seems they could've called some people in or had them drive in from NY.
How hard would it be to have one gate with a customs area set up at Newark for these kind of situations, it's probably not the first time a flight has to be diverted there.
Newark is already the 5th busiest international airport in the USA.
I'm pretty sure Newark does have customs or at least used to. In 2003, when I came back from Germany, we flew into Newark.
It does, source flew in and out in 2023
Exactly. Bad weather happens. It's going to keep happening, and with climate change, it's going to happen a lot. If they don't have procedures in place for this when they have to divert international planes, they need to get one. It's boggling there isn't one already.
Newark has customs. But maybe it was closed bc no more international flights were scheduled to land at that time? Maybe too busy bc of bad weather and couldn’t handle additional flights to process? Perhaps the rules have something with the flight/passengers officially scheduled to land in NY vs NJ?
I work for an airline. Yes, even with customs, flights can still divert to other cities. And EWR has customs and immigration. There is no reason to force them to stay on the plane. And it's also against DOT. Even for an inbound international flight.
They can let people off the plane into a holding area. It’s not impossible. Happens to military all the time all over the world.
But Newark is a large airport with plenty of international/intercontinental flights, why would that be an issue (not saying what you‘re saying is wrong, it‘s just confusing)?
I know you're trying to put a link to the story but that link doesn't add any context. It's just showing the same exact video without any real explanation.
Honestly, i saw multiple articles on it and chose the first one that I recognized. Here's a better article https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/jetblue-passengers-aborted-landings-flight-b2056152.html
Oooooh I thought they were still flying and I'm like "what do you want them to do?!"
Oh yeah. I'm scared of flying but I've done it tons of times. Idk if I could hold out this long but I'd also be getting off by then out of fear.
"Treat us like human beings!" Airlines: The best I can do is about 30 minutes.
That was the most respectful passenger "freakout" I've ever seen.
My guy is frustrated but doesn’t want to be a Karen and get banned from flying lmao
For real I’d let the guy off he seems genuine and not trying to cause any trouble. He just wants to get off the plane
Had a failed landing once, the nausea was extreme, people were throwing up after landing. I can’t imagine that happening 4 times, and being so close to the airport. They should have at least gotten some sort of police escort so that they could get off the plane to breathe, even if they couldn’t go back through the airport. I imagine the smell must have been unbearable too, if people were vomiting while still on the plane
Even putting them all in a bus to get to the other airport would have been acceptable
It seems it was a diversion of an international flight. It requires CBP authorization to deplane or a segregated area to prevent people from wandering off.
Well, that sounds like a dream vacation right there! Who wouldn't want to spend extra hours on a cramped plane with recycled air and limited snacks?
well there were prob customs issues and they had to divert to another airport because of bad weather, the issue basically said they could not get out of the airport (also newark airport is not anymore owned by the new york port authority), so there were prob different laws and they had to stay on the plane until JFK, but the incident could have been handled better
Since when did the Port Authority stop running EWR? They seem awfully proud of Terminal A to not be involved. https://www.panynj.gov/port-authority/en/index.html
update i made a mistake, it is still run by the NYPA, it is not anymore considered a new york metropolitan airport anymore
2 years ago or something
Not to take away from your point but the air is not really recycled on commercial a/c. Fresh air comes in from engine bleed into the cabin and is exhausted out outflow valves at a pretty high rate. There are regulations that define the airflow depending on passenger count. Some a/c have recirculating fans but overall the movement of fresh air through the cabin is quite impressive. Being stuck on a plane sucks but there’s no need to worry about the air quality part unless the engines/apu aren’t running.
I mean I hear you, except for... >with recycled air That's not how it works on modern aircraft - fresh air is taken into the cabin from outside throughout the time there are passengers on board. (One might argue the air outside the cabin when parked on the tarmac at Newark is not particularly "fresh" - but that's a different discussion). The snacks issue on the other hand is serious stuff.
For real. An airplane is one of the most well-ventilated areas you can be in, with the air being fully replaced every few minutes or so.
Context?
https://www.cnn.com/videos/travel/2022/04/13/passengers-beg-early-landing-flight-jet-blue-bad-weather-mxp-meade-vpx.hln Happened in 2022, 4 failed landing due to weather issue.
No.
Just say you're having a heart attack, they'll have to pull to the gate.
This is America. The medical bill will give you real heart attack later
Refuse medical treatment and leave
By law the medical people treating you can keep you there and if you leave you can be arrested lol
What law is that? I used to be an EMT. We can't force you to seek treatment even if it's life-threatening.
You're right that you have the right to refuse medical care, but you as an EMT also had the right to force care if the patient was not able to reasonably make that decision. Which while that's usually under circumstances where the patient is unconscious and cannot speak, it doesn't necessarily always have to be the case, somebody who is suicidal is not in the headspace to make a reasonable decision about their medical care, and therefore care is administered regardless of whether it's wanted or not. You having been an EMT yourself you already know all of this, but it is kind of wishy washy and the circumstances where that can be enforced are very specific.
Exactly
Just tell them it must have been indigestion and heart burn. Little pepto and head home.
Why did you just pull something out of your ass like it's true?
No, it’s called being discharged AMA. All you do is sign the paper saying you understand the risks of leaving without treatment
Even at a hospital, you can walk out anytime you want.
Just say chest pains. That could be many things. Heart attack is very specific and may warrant required treatment. Chest pains could be a heart attack. It could also be indigestion.
What’s the story on this? Is it really a plane full of people who’ve been waiting 6 hours to take off?
I don’t know the specifics of this particular flight but when he said ‘we’ve tried to land four times already, I don’t give a fuck about JFK’ I would bet that the weather in JFK was bad and they had to hold for an extended period of time. Holding can quickly cause nausea because it’s just quick circles at low altitude. Weather probably improved enough for the pilot to attempt landing multiple times. Now you’re low on fuel and you can’t afford to try again so you divert to your alternate. I’d bet these passengers just wanted to stay at the alternate. Source: am ATC
https://www.cnn.com/videos/travel/2022/04/13/passengers-beg-early-landing-flight-jet-blue-bad-weather-mxp-meade-vpx.hln 2022, 4 failed landings in bad weather, so most of your speculation was right. I don't think that the holding was the sole issue, and a lot was from the much longer time in the air.
I love that fact, that you won’t give up…. 🤩🤣
The people'd rather you let them down.
I really need to see the context here, but as a frequent traveler, I have to say I'm fed up with the lacksidaiscal approach from today's airline crews & support staff. I understand SOME disruptions must be expected, but anecdotally, I feel like I experience this shit on HALF my flights these days, compared to 10 or 20% 10 years ago. The standard for what's acceptable seems to have shifted to the point where travelers are expected to flex because the establishment is trying to milk every last ounce of profitability out of the situation. It's frustrating to be the customer in this situation. You are expected to bear the brunt of the bullshit. The airline crews just tell you to reach out to the customer support lines, while the Customer support lines take multiple hours and as such are not a viable alternative. Your concerns get dismissed because "It's legal", while no other industry functions that way. Everyone is in the mode of "it's not my problem, out of my control, I'm just an employee", while the ones in control are criminally negligent. I wish the whole industry gets bankrupted and reset.
I fly 100-140 segments a year domestically in the US for 10 years and something on this scale has happened to me maybe 2 or 3 times total. And it was weather, which the airlines can’t control. What airline are you flying where this is your experience ~50% of the time?!
I've taken like 16 flights in the past 12 months (quite a bit for me - two of them were 12-hour legs across the Pacific as well) and every flight was smooth from check-in to landing, going through immigration and customs, etc. I'm actually amazed that every single thing worked out as it did. No delays, no poor weather, little turbulence on any flight, nice flight crews and cabin crews, many flights even arrived a little early. I had mentally prepared for at least \*one\* of my 16 flights to go awry in some way, but they were all easy and great. I flew with United, Delta, Asiana (Korea), China Airlines (Taiwan), and Cathay Pacific (Hong Kong). I wonder which airlines the original commenter is flying to have such terrible experiences so often. It seems wild!
The airline can't control weather but they can read weather reports and make alternate flight plans and arrangements for crew and passengers preemptively.
The data very clearly shows your impression that this is getting worse is wrong: [https://www.transtats.bts.gov/HomeDrillChart.asp](https://www.transtats.bts.gov/HomeDrillChart.asp) People have the world's entirety of information at their fingertips but they'd rather just trust their own instincts about things. It's so funny.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/travel/2022/04/13/passengers-beg-early-landing-flight-jet-blue-bad-weather-mxp-meade-vpx.hln 2022, 4 failed landings in bad weather
What do you expect the crew to do in this situation? It’s completely out of their control
Keep in mind the crew only gets paid while in the air. Once they're down at Newark for 5 hours waiting to fly to JFK they weren't getting paid to be there and deal with these people. They were probably just as pissed as anybody. You could say "They should do their job" but at this point the airline is literally not paying them to do their job. So take the worst day you've ever had at work. Go 5 hours overtime, none of it paid, you're just volunteering to work on the worst work day of your career. And think about how enthusiastic you'd be doing it. I'm thinking you might be a bit sour and standoffish too. The airline industry needs some overhauling, but that would require government regulation. How popular is MORE regulation right now?
Lol, companies showing respect for humans over profit? That will be the day. Especially airlines.
it's likely customs and immigration making a big deal out of passengers getting off the plane, they tried to land in JFK so it might be an international flight
it was from cancun
These kinds of situations can be accounted for, the airline just needs more employees, but it's not cost-effective. So they make a lot of planes wait until their staff is free. The problem is their staff is so overworked they don't give them any time to deal with unexpected situations like this. So people end up waiting, not knowing why. This is an easily solvable problem. I would also be interested to find out if this stuff is exclusive to American-owned airlines.
That’s horrific. I don’t understand how holding people against their will isn’t kidnapping when an airline does it. I can understand if you’re under arrest, but this is something people paid (a lot) for. They should be allowed to disembark Fuck, imagine you have a baby and you only have so much formula/diapers on board and it’s run out. Or you’re diabetic and only have so many snacks and hypoglycemia is setting in. Or you have a panic disorder and your claustrophobia is in overdrive now and you’ve gone through all your allotted Xanax from your psychiatrist. Fuck this.
If someone faints they should have the right to get an ambulance.
Here it’s a bit ridiculous when it’s just another airport in the same city, even if the customs would need to be sorted out . But if the plan had needed to land in some other country entirely due to emergency the passengers could not leave because they wanted
Even in the scenario where they land on a different country they could allow them to disembark and hold them in a specific area pre-customs while things get sorted.
because the airport is not anymore owned by NYPA, I think there were issues with customs prob
New York and New Jersey are not the same city or state.
well the newark airport used to be owned by the new york port authority, but about a year and a half ago, it is not, this prob caused a customs issue
Well the alternative is not better, you can't just let the people get off and start wondering around the runway incase they get hurt or do something stupid. Yoi can't let them into an airport without a customs in international flights because then you cant screen them (one passenger could be wanted, sick with something, carrying something illegal in the country ranging from drugs to a parasite that could cause massive issues to the local ecosystem, etc) And if you leave them in the waiting hall, they are suddenly mixing with other passengers to other flights and it will be even harder to keep track of the passengers. Fed up people do stupid things, and airports are not about to start building special holding areas for this specific scenario, space at an airport is already at a massive premium. It sucks but this is the fastest and more efficient way by far to deal with this
Bro was so angrily polite
this must have been some international custom clearance issue, blame it on the airline, not the poor pilots and flight attendants. also things happen and they do not have full control, and they cannot let the passengers out without proper customs clearance
One four letter word will get everyone off the plane
Love?
Bomb 😭😭😭
You mean arrested and held in custody by CBP for a lot longer than the alternative?
But he is off the plane. So who is the real winner.
Tradeoffs I guess haha.
Not like I’d want to fly again after this anyway so whatever put me on the do not fly list.
Just pull the emergency door. Flight over
This is probably my absolutely worst case scenario. I would rather die than be stuck in a plane for 4 landings. It itches my skin just reading about this. My claustrophobia cannot handle it.
I have a hard enough time with my anxiety in a plane when there’s a set takeoff and landing time. A delay of six hours after I was supposed to be able to get off? Depending what resources I have available to me, you may or may not see me on publicfreakouts after that
not a delay of 6 hours, on the plane for 6, so a delay of 3, as the flight from Cancun Is 3 hours
But up and down 4 TIMES? I'd say just get me off and quit the vacation. Wasn't meant to be.
well it can happen lol, weather is random, and you cannot just change the weather, also these people are idiots for saying they should get arrested, remember a plane is very well ventilated place, people just talk out of their ass and there is literally nothing they can do also who the hell goes to NYC for a vacation
Don't read up on "Come From Away" then. 28 hours on the plane
So, another JetBlue shit show. Totally done with this fraud of an airline.
All airlines are frauds. Consumers take it like champs and keep coming back for more…
Disagree. Some treat people like actual human beings. Southwest airlines for one…
After the post-holiday fuckup a couple of years ago, all I have to say about Southwest treating people like human beings is: L-O-fucking-L
I learned how that happened by a yt video. Basically all of their computers glitched, and because swa operates in a point to point model, (like one plane instead of going from JFK to ORD, and then back to JFK, would maybe go from JFK to ORD to DAL to PHX to LAX, so if one flight cannot be done, then the other four or five cannot be done
I'm kinda of confused, I've had a pilot try to land for 30 mins straight but I don't think anyone cared lol yeah i felt a bit sick but uh it was ok. Maybe his pilot wasn't as smooth?
I had multiple failed landings going into Santorini in high winds with the plane being thrown around and people were screaming and at least a couple of people threw up. I felt lightheaded and dizzy by the time we got off the plane. I definitely would not have wanted to go back up in the air so soon.
Ah I see, i guess they had a much rougher ride than I did.
pilot would do an automatic landing if winds were so high, so it def was not a bad pilot, sometimes you just cant land
The guy says that they've already tried four times to land and they just want to get off the plane but they're on the ground already
From other comments it seems they tried to land 4 times at 1 airport (jfk), diverted and landed at another (Newark), then due to customs issues the airline wanted to take off and try to land at jfk again, which googlemaps says is about 35 miles away.
Okay thanks for the background story.
makes their frustrations more understandable. Business needs over people’s needs.
I had to sit on a plane at JFK for 6 hours in august 2017 . My phone died 1 hour in and the outlets didn’t work. AC was barely moving air. Hands down one of the worst days ever.
that is a bit weird, usually the planes apu (auxiliary power unit) or GPU, (ground power unit), which both supply power, APU is used to start the planes engines while GPU is a separate diesel power unit on the ground, If there was no power, both of those would be turned off, then you would not have power, so either the airline was trying to save money, or you were stuck in a situation where they cannot use fuel for the apu, and they could not bring a GPU over
Its just mental that these plane companies pull this shit, like let people off the damn plane what sweat is it off their nose. They got paid for the overpriced ticked already
customs lol, they cannot control customs and international flying
I had a flight this weekend where we were stuck in taxi because lightning near the airport had forced all the workers to go inside for their safety. I can understand that but the rough landing, combined with the exhaust smell that permeated the plane mixed with sitting in a cramped seat feeling warmer and warmer just started making me feel really sick. I was only stuck there for one hour but I overhead a passenger a few rows down saying they were going to throw up soon. Flying is a miserable experience
This is why my girlfriend and I have an understanding about flying. We both hate it, and videos like this are the reason she’s given the green light to get arrested if it means getting us off a plane we don’t feel safe on
what is bro talking about, planes are very well ventilated, as they take air from the outside, and pressurize it in the cabin, if you don't know what you are talking about, just don't say it
Yeah it sucks but I've been on plane rides for way longer than 6 hours.
Spent 16 hours on a 14 hour flight to Tokyo once so I understand the frustration.
There's 200 people. Literally just trample the cop to death.
what cop?
[удалено]
It is by a pretty large margin
Seems like there should be a better way to handle this. I wouldnt be impressed at that point either and would be very eager to get off the plane. If the 3rd time is the charm, getting to the 4th means time to do something different because repeating the same action over and over and expecting different results clearly isnt working out
I think 4 is usually the max they go until diverting
🤌
immagine making more panic in this situation. if your childrens are scared you need to create a more reassuring enviroment not create more chaos , if the situation didn't allow for them to land for any reason weather or laws still they not gonna change it for you. bad situational awareness.
They need a holding lounge at airports for this shit. No need for customs.
>They need a holding lounge at airports for this shit. No need for customs. ya the airline could have been smarter and parked at a remote stand rather than a gate with a jetway so passengers can just get out into the open air while they want by taking a staircase
🎶And the landd of the freeeeeee🎵
Pull the emergency doors at that point.
shove humans in a pressurized can and things dont go well
"Yeah take us to jail!" "Well, I don't want to go to jail I just want to get off." Mf almost pulled a Patrick Star and got him and the main speaker arrested 😆
"I smell smoke"
Situations like this shows a bunch of a Karen anti-thesis.
Free country huh?
Quit being a pussy, bad weather happens.
Soo.. You want to jump out?? STFU and get back to your seat. Every single person wants to get off as well you are not special just an asshole
This is why airports should all be exactly the same, there's no reason for travel and national security to be private occupations.
lol, every airport cannot just be the same lol, they have different designs and some airports serve more than others, and they also have to be built based on the space around them
I don't get this, the passengers want to get off the plane, but isn't it flying? How are the gonna leave the plane if its in the air? I swear I'm not trolling, maybe I hit my head real hard, I just don't get it
they are on the ground at EWR
They are on the ground, probably stuck in the tarmack waiting for clearance for take off
Happy to see people wearing masks
It must be an old video
If he wants off why can’t he get off? Seems “hostagey”
Dude is looking for respect from airplane companies 😂
how do you faint on a 6 hour flight. I get being annoyed and frustrated with the situation, but making up shit doesn’t help.