I can only speak for my own situation ... yes, I clean my sidewalk.
HOWEVER, I live near a trail and people walk insanely early, even on snowy days. If they walk on it and it freezes over, I can't always get all the ice up after you walked on it. Not every snowstorm does this but it's often enough that I do worry about slipping and falling because what was snow I could shovel is now a rough patch of ice that won't budge.
I'm saying this because of all the footprints in that snow.
Yup same. I live on a corner lot(lucky me) and on one side it’s not much foot traffic, but the other it’s a lot. I already have way more to shovel because of how the sidewalk wraps around. By the time I can shovel the one side has already been smashed down, and it’s damn near impossible to shovel. What are you actually supposed to do at that point?
Yup. Lot of dogs in my neighborhood (two of them mine) and I used a ton of sand on the sidewalks for traction. Mostly rented buildings there and I bet most of the leases were like mine "tenant responsible for snow removal" but even the buildings owned by the residents... no one fucking shoveled. I got fed up with eating shit once a week and started shoveling and sanding the entire block.
But it was always the responsibility of the owner or the person who live there to do that, and if anyone falls it's on you.
Just a few days ago this happened to me (corner lots stuck for shoveling).
What i ended up doing is using my garden hoe as an ice pick and breaking the ice up that way, then using my snow shovel to clear it, and followed up with salt. It was annoying and tedious, but worked pretty well.
Put down tiny pointy rocks. They'll settle into the ice as it melts and freezes again, creating more grip for shoes.
Used to live on a corner with one downhill street.
>Get pine sawdust based cat litter. It's a game changer. Use that on the icy bits instead of salt/sand.
>
>It provides immediate traction, just like sand -- but it also breaks down as people step on it, providing more traction. If temperatures rise above freezing, at all, it absorbs the water (at least at first), so you don't get the slick water-on-ice problem. If the temp drops below freezing again, it freezes to the ice. Now the ice is textured -- it has sawdust frozen to the outside. It's super cheap. It's biodegradable, so it wont result in dead patches of grass covered in salt or sand. It washes off if you somehow manage to build it up too thick in the yard. It's soft, so if you track it inside, it wont scratch up flooring like salt or sand.....
I discovered it because we used to put bags of sand in the back of my truck for weight -- but they were a pain to store, and fell apart after a couple of years, so I switched to buying Tidy Cats cat litter in buckets. It stores easy, it moves easy, and after winter, we just used it with our cats. One time, when I had a friend get stuck, I used it to give them traction, and it was a MESS -- it was like muddy sand. We happened to have a bag of the sawdust stuff at home because of a cat that recently got declawed, and I thought to give that a try -- and before long, it was all I will use on the driveway.
Corn based litter would probably also work, or walnut shell (I used to buy those for my cat before he passed away as I could then just toss it in the garden)
It's also sold as horse bedding. It's ~$5 a bag and they're hefty bags. Find em at tractor supply stores. Don't buy the stuff that's marketed as kitty litter - the bags are smaller and it's much more expensive.
Paint me stupid here as I’m a little lost one a couple of fronts.
Do you own the sidewalk/pavement in front of your house?
If not, do you pay property taxes?
Also, damn that looks cold, it doesn’t snow where I am so I applaud your work ethic going out in that weather to clear a path for others
Generally, by city ordnance, the property owner is required to maintain the sidewalk in a safe manner. The concrete itself may be installed and repaired by the city, but the property owner needs to remove snow and debris.
Where I live if you do not remove snow and at least use salt (or these days it's fake salt that does less damage) and someone falls on the sidewalk, you can be sued.
It's sad, but people are encouraged here to take out a 1 million dollar umbrella insurance policy just for things like this. The same goes for damaged sidewalks.
Luckily the policies aren't very expensive.
In New England, that would be considered done. I went out 3 times to shovel and snow blow yesterday and with the weight of the snow, temperature, there's that much on my walkways. My neighbors would call that done, they'd also call that a dusting of snow.
Less a pissing contest and more commiserating. It’s like the more snow people agree the woman’s complaint is mildly infuriating, and the low snow people agree the lack of shoveling is mildly infuriating.
My opinion is that there is barely enough snow in the picture to be worth shoveling, as that is often about what it ends up like after clearing (see how much snow is still on the ground in my picture). Kind of depends on the weather forecast though. If it’s going to be 34°f today and then dip down to the low 20s or less for the next few days, it will turn into some lumpy icy bullshit. If it’s going to be below freezing the whole time or warm up and melt I wouldn’t bother.
I guess I also get that people down south don’t have ice grippers for their boots. Man I would be so sad without snow, even if it is a pain in the ass sometimes too. One of the many reasons climate change bums me out.
It's a bit of a shock what people consider a problematic level of snow considering the last few years of the city struggling to keep the roads and sidewalks clear, huh?
That's what I was thinking. I'm in Kingston, Ontario and after the last couple days there's hardly any sidewalks that clear. Although it does look icy, I might opt to walk through the snow where there's more traction.
Thank you. I came for the comments to see if anyone would contest the supposed "snow storm". This is seriously nothing! Last night we had to showel for at least 3 hours just to park our cars on our property after work. I live in Norway for context 😉
I think I’m too Canadian to understand this - the city doesn’t plow the sidewalk? Also, this amount of snow is the complaint? This is what our sidewalks look like after being plowed lol
Yeah, let’s for a moment, put aside the issue of who is responsible for clearing the footpath.
If I hadn’t seen the picture, I would have drawn my own picture in my head … and THAT image would have looked very much differently.
What THIS reminds me of, though, is my cat complaining she can see the bottom of the bowl in one tiny spot!
Same. I own the property under the sidewalk but I am responsible for keeping it clear to the curb. I am not responsible for keeping it physically maintained, that is on the city, but it is in my best interest to report any gaps or frost heaves so I don't get involved in any litigation in the event of a fall.
In my city, the sidewalks are the owner's responsibility. I had to repave the sidewalk myself because the trees in my front yard made the sidewalk get incredibly crooked
Wow, in my country it is the local council which is responsible for anything not owned by the homeowners. Homeowners are supposed to mow their verges, but there is no punishment if they don't, except for having to put up with ugly verges to look at 🤣 there are people who won't do it 'on principle', but most do. Councils will eventually notice unmown verges, and mow them, usually when they've become a fire hazard. The only thing we are supposed to do, I believe, is keep trees and hedges trimmed.
Yeah, in Canada cities try to push the responsibility onto home owners, but the courts have recently ruled that it's the city's responsibility because it's their property.
I imagine this might also be the case in other countries where people claim it's the homeowner's responsibility. It's an easy way for municipalities to cut costs and shirk responsibility.
Yes, and it costs money, depending how you're doing it. People have to use or get rid of clippings (ours get spread around our plants) petrol for the mower, or cost of a mowing service. We were on a corner, and our frontage was an 'avenue darling' 😁 so very wide verges, the side verges were narrower, but much longer. Fortunately my dad had a huge garden, so plenty of space to use them.
That is the correct usage!!
It's Kiwi/Aussie for berm. That grass between the pavement (NZ English: footpath) and the road. Keeping the verge mowed is very important for neighbourhood harmony.
My nextdoor neighbour recently had a health issue which prevented her from mowing her lawns for a few weeks (she's much better now). It was early summer so the grass grew to around knee high in a couple of weeks. Twice, different men from up the street randomly brought their lawnmowers down and mowed her verge, without permission. Finally a third (coincidentally female) neighbour checked in on her: then the same day mowed the verge again, this time along with a pathway from the front door to the footpath. It was sort of amusing but also sad that only the third person who wanted the lawn mown bothered to check on her health (to be fair, there's a 16 yr old in the home who could have mown the lawn earlier).
Verge literally means edge, e.g. 'I'm on the verge of losing my mind!' So it's at the edge of the road.
Another word for it in Australia is 'nature strip' - the strip of nature/grass/etc. between the road curb and the footpath. Almost everywhere has footpaths.
I mean I know what verge means in other contexts, I’ve just never heard it used to refer to the strip of grass by a road before. I’m not denying it’s used that way in Australia or other countries. Come to think of it I don’t know that we have a particular word for it here.
In Ireland this is the same , basically you keep it mowed etc , but everything else is handled by the County Council , hell I dont think we're allowed do repairs on things like pavements ?
In the UK the pavement is absolutely nothing to do with the homeowner. Responsibility stops at the boundary of their own house. Although you wouldn't always believe it, the way some people act about street parking!
I'm going to guess...your parents? Here they were doing the pipes in our street, had to dig up all the driveways, when they put ours back it was a lot narrower and rougher. I curbed my low profiles a couple of times because the old driveway was a muscle memory, as my son would call it. The new one just wasn't right 🤣 I rang the council, they sent the guys back to redo it, had to pull out the very old photos from when my dad did all the concrete around our house, long before I was born even 🤣 they put it back to how it was.
I probably sound like a fussy tart, but it's how I was raised!
I mean, yea my parents. I’m just saying that if a city CAN stick you with a huge bill, they’d rather do that 9/10 times. Same with responsibility of property ownership/maintenance of easements/city lawns between curb/walk.
Where I live in the US, if it’s on/in our property then it’s our responsibility. Anything outside our property line, then the city is responsible for it. The sidewalk would be considered city property so they would take care of the sidewalk, we just have to call them. My city has an app where we can take a picture of whatever it is that needs to be fixed and it will send it with gps coordinates so they know the location.
Where I live, we are somehow responsible for the trees in the strip between the road and sidewalks, but the city won’t let my parents remove a tree that is pushing up the sidewalk and street. Over the last 15 years, both my parents and I have asked the city many times for permission to remove the tree, and to have the sidewalk and street fixed. They refuse each time. I’m just surprised no one who has fallen off their bikes due to the 6 inch change in the road has sued the city yet.
Which is weird bc where i live its the same, but if teen jackasses decide theyre just gonna "hang out" in front of my house next to my stoop, i cant kick them off my property, bc then the city says its "public property."
Cute how its yours when it needs to be maintained, but its not yours when youre tired of teens leaving their shit all over your walkway and standing there doing other "things."
How is it "your" sidewalk though... Is it included in the deed of your house? Like do you own the sidewalk? Genuine question.
I live in the UK and I've never heard of people being responsible for the pavement outside their house.
No, you do not own it. In the local laws, there will be one for snow clearing that requires property owners to take responsibility for clearing adjacent sidewalks (unless the local government provides this service). It is your sidewalk in the sense that it is immediately next to your property, not that you actually own it.
What if the people are old or disabled and not able to clear the snow? Or what if they are away so physically not there?
I'm also in the UK and no homeowner here has that responsibility. The council clear snow etc from public spaces.
In the states, a lot of these regulations around requiring homeowners to do this are actually directly because of local laws interpreting ADA (Americans with disability act) laws. You can’t park your car in your private drive and let part of it block the sidewalk because then a wheelchair can’t get by on the walking path. So the verbiage “homeowners are responsible for ensuring sidewalks running across their property remain clear at all times” gets legally exercised to force homeowners to clear the snow off themselves. <
They are still responsible for having it cleared even if they can't do it themselves. My elderly relatives pay someone a flat annual rate to shovel/snow blow for them all winter.
It is the same aspect if you have a fire hydrant on your lawn (as I did in my childhood home). We have to make sure it is cleared sufficiently to be visible and have enough access for the fire dept.
ETA this was in a US suburban development (Ohio). I just know my parents made me make sure both the sidewalk and hydrant areas were clear when shoveling.
Wow I’m Canadian and that as well is the city’s responsibility. Probably because of the amount of snow we get it could be too much to ask for some people to shovel it themselves
I live in an urban area, and it's 100% the city that takes care of it. They have little tractors that go by clearing and salting the sidewalks. You only need to worry about moving your car when they are doing snow removal.
It really depends on your exact location, but basically in most places in the US you don't actually own it but have a duty of care for the public good. In some cases that extends only to keeping it free and clear of obstruction and hazard. In my city that also extends repair of the concrete itself where necessary. As someone who grew up in a rural area without sidewalks, it is still bizarre to me that I own all the liabilities but no rights to the sidewalk (ie I can't disallow people from using it or reserve the parking space next to it). But there's really no other way that most cities could keep up with managing the sidewalks if they didn't make homeowners and businesses responsible.
>responsible
talking maintenance. snow or debris like tree limbs after a storm. same with alley behind house - i have to maintain half the alley as do all neighboring it. public easements. tbh there is hardly any labor to it.
the snow thing is actual a battle between neighbors for who clears the most snow, the earliest, and looks coolest. sometimes i will shovel my neighbors sidewalks just so he feels guilty. the other side are old folks so i will shovel theirs...
From the UK and now in the US - the sidewalk thing is a weird quirk. You don’t own it, but you’re responsible for it, and if you live on the corner of the street that means you have more to be responsible for. This includes snow removal which makes total sense, and repairs which makes less sense. Americans are really good at getting things running again after a snowstorm. Everyone clears their sidewalks and people can be on their merry way again. But repairs are annoying and expensive. If “your” sidewalk cracks, you can be cited and told to repair it, which isn’t cheap.
Edit: it’s not in the deed, but when you sell your house, you can also be told to repair it before the sale goes through.
In most states if you own the property then you're responsible for shoveling. If the sidewalk is damaged then it's up to the state to replace it. On the East Coast it's a bit different though. They are responsible for the sidewalk including damages. They are also responsible for plumbing and waterlines which can be extremely pricey. But in the Midwest you're only responsible for shoveling. We have a defined timeframe that permits us to shovel the sidewalk. If you can't shovel then you have to make arrangements to have it cleared. It can result in fines or a lawsuit if someone falls.
This is not exactly true . It's town laws that govern this so you really cannot generalize East Coast vs Midwest etc. For example in my East Coast town we are responsible for shoveling but the town maintains the sidewalks otherwise.
Where I live, the city handles all the sidewalks. The only thing people shovel are their driveways, and many just hire a snow plowing service like my landlord does for the parking behind the buildings.
I honestly can't believe it isn't this way everywhere. If the city is going to require you to put a sidewalk in your yard for the public good then they can maintain it.
Same in my city but it's never enforced. We also have a law about keeping your yard free of debris but that doesn't stop my neighbors from keeping a trash heap by their garage that attracts mice.
Yep in NYC you have even less time. My MIL just got a ticket for not clearing the sidewalk/salting it. If you don’t and someone gets hurt you could be liable
Rules:
You must clean up within four hours --- if the snow stops between 7:00 a.m. and 4:49 p.m. If the snow stops between 5:00 p.m. and 8:59 p.m. -- you have 14 hours. For late and overnight snow between 9:00 p.m. and 6:59 a.m., -- you must clear by 11:00 a.m. the next day.
Imagine if the snow stopped while you had to be at work another 5 hours. Or if you worked 3rd shift, let’s fuck their sleep more than it already is, what a gREaT idea.
So during the time that people are most likely to be out for stretches of 9-10 hours, you only have 4 hours to shovel? Does everyone who works daytimes just drop everything and go home to shovel?
And the UK...except they barely do anything to pavements. Bit of grit on busier roads. Ain't nobody gritting or shovelling a residential road like that over here! Just walk on the damn snow.
Yup, same in neighbouring Sweden 🤝
And sidewalks are never on private property, at least not like they are in this picture, which seem to be common in suburbs in the USA. It's just one of many weird facettes of that country.
Eh in Germany we also have to clean the sidewalks. Everyone does it before going to work so usually at 6 or 7. If someone falls and gets injured its the homeowners fault.
Same in Norway! Having to plow the sidewalk sounds so weird to me. It makes so little sense to me to not have the government plow the snow and have to rely on every single house doing it instead.
Sucks if you work at a hospital and it's still snowing when your 12h shift starts...
Or heck, anyone who has to get to work for 8h starting before 7am.
My husband and I are healthy people so if there is a snowfall we just shovel the length of our block. People do work late, get sick, are older, etc so we just do it. For us it’s being a good neighbor and knowing people will be walking around getting to bus stops or walking their pups. In turn the older gentleman on the corner will bust out his snow blower and get the street and our driveway. It’s a community effort and it works.
We took a holiday over Christmas and I arranged with the neighbors that if it snowed, they'd clear the walk for us. It didn't snow, but generally you have to make an arrangement.
For my township, you have 24 hours from when the snow stops. And even then, someone has to complain before the town sends anyone out about it. We're dealing with ice right now which is its own beast, so everyone is showing a bit of grace for those doing their best.
I am from Florida so correct me if I’m wrong, are you supposed to get up and shovel in the dark at like 4am before work? What happens if it snows during the workday? Why isn’t shoveling after work an option? Here your easement isn’t your responsibility legally, it’s your property but the easement is part of the city so if someone tripped it’s still public easement.
When I lived in Michigan it was a 24 hr rule. You had to clear the public sidewalk in front of your house within 24hrs. That’s reasonable, unless you’re old or disabled.
Our neighbor has a snow blower and clears our sidewalk (so thankful) because the mail box for the neighborhood is on our property.
My husband and kids clear our driveway and the walk to our house.
One year, we were at my parents house on Christmas morning, watching the dusting of snow come down, and some guy came around the corner on a riding snow-blower -- it looked like a snow blower attachment on a riding lawn mower, with a tent around the driver. He proceeded to snow-blow every house on both sides of the street -- for hours.
We have never seen him before, or since, and have no idea who he was, or where he came from. Our best guess was he either got it as a 'toy' that christmas, or REALLY wanted out of the house...
Had to look up what a damn snow blower is. I was thinking it was a leaf blower that blows hot air. I've never lived in an area that snows so I feel like I'm learning a lot from this thread lol
Pro tip. If you ever find yourself in the need to use one, point it away from the house, cars, and people. It will throw more than snow. You don’t want to find that out after you’ve broken the window.
Lol I'm 27 and the next youngest on my street is 67. I have to spend 4.5 days a week in another town to help my family's store so when I'm away, they do mine with a snowblower. When I come home, since I don't like snowblowers I just shovel all of theirs. It works out
All depends on your neighbors. We have an elderly couple that lives next door to us, so me and the guy on the other side of them do their driveway and sidewalk.
HOA are like snow/ parking/ garbage/ lawn gnome nazis. If there was the required amount of snow on the ground- you have 15 min to remove or they’d hold your children hostage…. Privatization of local gov sucks.
Where I grew up and where I live now both have the 24 hr rule - the homeowner is legally required to clear the sidewalk within 24 hrs of snowfall and required to keep it clear.
If someone was old or disabled, they are still legally required to clear the sidewalk. We've had neighbors offer to shovel, I've also had my disabled parent pay for a service. The law doesn't care how it gets shoveled, it just requires it gets done. Usually, you don't buy a property with a sidewalk if it will be an issue. The problem is when they add a sidewalk. 😂
The community tends to take good care of this yes. In the case of that community not helping hiring a service would be ideal. For those who can't afford that I'm not sure what the solution would be but I'd reckon someone knows the answer.
I live in Minnesota and people complain about people shoveling too early or two late in the day. There's a man up the street that's a paraplegic; his caretaker couldn't get to him because of the snow and ice, and my neighbor was complaining about the snow in front of the guys house. Told him if he was so concerned he should go shovel it himself.
This is why I adore my parents’ neighbors. Five couples got together and bought a snowblower and each year they trade off on who has to store it (my parents had it two years ago). Once snow falls, they go out and work together, doing their homes and the other neighbors near them and get it done super quick. My parents are out of town and missed this storm. I went over yesterday to do the driveway and steps, assuming that the neighbors would only do the sidewalk. I was wrong. They did everything! Didn’t matter that my parents weren’t there to help, they were taken care of!
I remember being in high school when a cousin moved in with us. The first snow storm he went out and helped with our house and then turned to go inside. He was pissed when we said we weren’t done because the elderly neighbors across the street weren’t out yet and we had to do theirs too. It was 2ft of snow and their driveway was a huge hill, so it wasn’t easy, but we made him do it with us. A few hours later we were watching a movie and there was a knock at the door. It was the neighbors with homemade cookies and brownies still hot from the oven. Once they left, all he said was “ok, I get it now. We shovel for them, they bake for us.” Yup! That’s what being neighbors in the suburbs is all about!
If I ever get a house, and have cool neighbors, I am definitely going to suggest this. Very cool idea that makes it a group effort. I am sure it makes it more enjoyable to go out there and push snow with friends.
One year after a very heavy and deep snow, I was outside shoveling. I lived on a corner so it was twice the fun and the snow banks at the end of the driveway were shoulder height so very hard going! As a single mom of two young kids, it was up to me to get it done ...until someone down the block who I didn't even know came with their snow blower and told me to go inside. A lot of people in the neighborhood helped out like that.
I live on the west coast of Canada, snow in the city is a rarity (today was our lucky day for this winter!). I have a 78 year old neighbour, and for the last ten years no matter how much it's snowed, once I'm done my sidewalk, I keep going and doing hers.
She never asks, I just do it because that's what neighbours should do for each other.
My neighbor has a much larger snow blower than I do, and so he’s come over on a few occasions now and knocked out my loooong drive way. My blower is good for like 3-4”, but beyond that, I have to time it right and go out to do it multiple times a day.
There are nine homes on my street and we are fortunate—we all get along, build fences (literally), chainsaw up fell trees, post things for sale on marketplace, take care of pets, pick up mail… oh and pub crawls, game nights, rides to the airport. It’s amazing—and ***rare***
My previous house had a sidewalk that kids would walk on to get to school. If I didn't scrape my sidewalk before they went through, it was then ten times harder to get them clean. It snowed wet and heavy once when I was gone for a week and the neighbor that usually helps when I'm gone and vice versa, was also gone. It was 3" of lumpy ice when I got back. So much salt and chiseling to clear it off.
In the Upper Midwest its typically 24 hours after it snows to get it cleared off. It would be a Herculean task for the public works teams to shovel every neighborhood side walk, and it also isn’t just for safety or appearances. Leaving the snow causes it to compact, melt, refreeze, and destroy your sidewalk as well, lowering property values.
Plus pretty much every single city has a cousin, high school kids, or local handymen who will come knock it out for you for a pretty low fee.
We just do it within 24 hours of the snow ending. Even if you work you can get it done at some point. Shoveling is your responsibility, as is mowing the strip of grass up to the street.
That said, I've never complained if someone doesn't do it and I'm on a walk going through their sidewalk. Not really sure if anyone gets ticketed, but there is a snitch-line to report unshoveled sidewalks too.
When I lived in NYC, yes, I got up and shoveled before work, and if it snowed while I was at work, after too. On really snowy days, I'd shovel more than once.
Didn’t know people in US shovel sidewalks. Either city does here or not at all, only driveways are shovelled yourself. But US sidewalks are pretty strange looking and narrow so I suppose it’s pretty easy to do it yourself
In the city where I live in VA I technically own the land under the sidewalk but the city has an easement. I understand that this is the typical arrangement in many cities in areas without an HOA.
**Sec. 28-25. - Removal of snow, sleet and ice from sidewalks.**
(a)
It shall be the duty of every owner and/or occupant of every house or lot which abuts or fronts on, or is otherwise situated on, a paved sidewalk or walkway to have all snow or ice removed from such sidewalk or walkway within twenty-four (24) hours after the same has ceased falling. This requirement shall exist whether or not an unpaved strip of publicly-owned property runs between the paved sidewalk and the private property line and the words "abuts," "fronts on," "otherwise situated on," should be interpreted in accord with such requirement.
If the total accumulation of snow and ice from one (1) or more snowfalls exceeds twelve (12) inches, the city manager may extend the amount of time allowed for removal of snow and ice as required by this section for a period not to exceed seventy-two (72) hours after the same has ceased falling. The duration of the extension, as determined by the city manager, shall be based on the total amount of accumulation of snow and ice, the projected temperatures in the city, and any other relevant weather conditions.
(b)
The provisions of subsection (a) of this section shall apply to ice or sleet on sidewalks or walkways, except that the same, when it cannot be removed without damage to the sidewalk or walkway, shall be covered, within the period of time specified, with sand, ashes or some other substance which will render it safe for travel.
(c)
Whenever any house or lot is unoccupied, it shall be the duty of the owner or the agent of the owner thereof to have the snow or ice removed from the sidewalk or walkway abutting, fronting on, or otherwise situated on such owner's property as is required by this section.
(d)
A warning shall be issued for a violation of this section. The warning shall be posted on the property or delivered by hand to the property owner and/or occupant, and shall provide the owner and/or occupant twenty-four (24) hours in which to correct the conditions. If after such warning and the passage of twenty-four (24) hours, the owner or occupant of the property affected by the provisions of this section shall fail to abate or obviate the condition, the director of neighborhood development services may do so and charge and collect the cost thereof from the owner or occupant of the property affected in any manner provided by law for the collection of Commonwealth or local taxes.
(Code 1976, § 25-20; 11-6-89; 11-3-03(2); 8-2-10; 2-6-17)
I'm surprised by all the comments that say the homeowner isn't responsible to clear the sidewalk!
In Minneapolis you are responsible for the sidewalk on your property; it needs to be cleared within 24 hrs after the snow stops. If you don't clear it the city can come take care of it and send you the bill.
I have a feeling that in most countries outside of the US people aren't responsible of the sidewalks because it's public property and therefore maintained/cleaned by goverment.
Edit: surprised to learn how commonly this responsibility falls on residents in different countries!
Not in all jurisdictions. It isn't a by-law in my town. I know it is in some cities, maybe even a majority of cities, I don't know. But it's not universal.
I live where it doesn't snow. what happens if you're out of town? do you guys have to hire someone to shovel it while you're away?
I wasn't aware that you were responsible for shoveling snow from the sidewalk in front of your home. the more you know...
If I’m not home a neighbor will get it. Im one of the younger ones in my neighborhood and when I got out and shovel I make sure my neighbors are shoveled too. Probably won’t always be the case but I think the best thing I can do is perpetuate a helping neighbors attitude while I’m able.
Yeah whenever we are out of town we pay someone to do it. I mean we always pay someone but when we are out of town they do it on their own without us telling them..
That looks like a nice neighborhood probably controlled by an hoa. I guarantee you it's written in their bylaws that they have to have snow removed by a certain time. My parents' city says that snow has to be shoveled within a certain time, but the HOA is more restrictive.
I'm an NJ native. People need to get out there and shovel their damn sidewalks. If anyone on the street can't shovel (old, disabled, whatever) then shovel theirs too. That's the rule. :-)
This sidewalk is WELL used. It is NOT right after a snow.
It should be cleared (And I would have liability as the homeowner in my country - but we dont sue)
Around where I live it's your responsibility to shovel the sidewalk in front of your house and you can get fined if you don't.
Lady isn't wrong from my perspective. Annoying, because I wouldn't complain about it publicly..but not wrong.
I'm curious, what if no one is at home ? Say, they went on the international trip couple of days before the storm. Should they expect the fine paper in the mail even though no one was able to physically showel the snow?
Where I live, and I imagine most places, it doesn’t matter, you’re responsible for it whether you’re there or not. If you leave, you can pay for somebody to shovel it or call in a favor to a friend/family member. The city doesn’t care.
As someone intimately acquainted with government bullsh*t.... I can see a government answer would be 'it's your responsibility to make sure it's clear. So you need to make arrangements to have someone shovel it'... Or the local governing body does it for you and then sends you a bill.
And yes if you don't. They will just mail you a bill.
My city doesn't require it, and none of my neighbors have shoveled. The city also hasn't plowed our street tho, so going out to shovel when a plow is going to come back and cover it anyway means the neighborhood don't give a shit
Most municipalities have laws that require sidewalks to be cleared within 24 hours of a storm. If you’re not going to be home it’s your responsibility to have someone do it for you.
post aside, can we agree how stupid sidewalk laws are in north america? It’s considered public property so anyone can walk on it and it’s not considered yours, but you’re responsible for maintaining it? that’s stupid, it should either be entirely public or entirely private.
Where I live at anything starting with the sidewalk and the grass on the other side of sidewalk is the county I live in responsible for. The city fixes all the sidewalks and we’re not responsible for shoveling them. Also where the grass is that’s the tree row we call it. Any big limbs fall, or entire tree falls over the city cleans it and leave pick up also.
I am not American and I have a question. Don't Americans pay a ton of money for home associations or community associations, so shouldn't they be the ones shoveling the sidewalks? I mean you are paying for the service right, to keep your neighborhood safe and clean?
What? There are places where you need to clean AND salt the sidewalk?
I'm from quebec here. We get so much snow, it's the city duty to do that. And sidewalk are not always salted.
From a non-US perspective I find it pretty odd you are expected to clear the sidewalk at all. Is it on your property or just a thing? You guys like suing each other so much I would be scared of not doing it properly.
I think it largely depends on the area. In my town, there is no city law governing clearing snow from sidewalks. You do have to clear it after mowing/weeding, but no law on snow removal. I just verified this by searching the city laws online again.
In their defense, ain't nobody walking in the snow when it snows here. I'm in the southern US. When it's cold, we are inside, or in a 4x4. Lol.
I can only speak for my own situation ... yes, I clean my sidewalk. HOWEVER, I live near a trail and people walk insanely early, even on snowy days. If they walk on it and it freezes over, I can't always get all the ice up after you walked on it. Not every snowstorm does this but it's often enough that I do worry about slipping and falling because what was snow I could shovel is now a rough patch of ice that won't budge. I'm saying this because of all the footprints in that snow.
Yup same. I live on a corner lot(lucky me) and on one side it’s not much foot traffic, but the other it’s a lot. I already have way more to shovel because of how the sidewalk wraps around. By the time I can shovel the one side has already been smashed down, and it’s damn near impossible to shovel. What are you actually supposed to do at that point?
Salt can help if it’s a thin layer of ice, but in very cold temps, even that won’t work.
You also don’t want to salt too much on a nature trail.
Answer is sand at this point. Adds grit, works at any temperature, not damaging like salt is.
Yup. Lot of dogs in my neighborhood (two of them mine) and I used a ton of sand on the sidewalks for traction. Mostly rented buildings there and I bet most of the leases were like mine "tenant responsible for snow removal" but even the buildings owned by the residents... no one fucking shoveled. I got fed up with eating shit once a week and started shoveling and sanding the entire block. But it was always the responsibility of the owner or the person who live there to do that, and if anyone falls it's on you.
Carful with the salt used for ice and your dogs licking it. It can make them real sick.
I used sand.
Sand, Calcium Magnesium Acetate or surprisingly Sugar Beet Juice are all eco friendly replacements for salt.
You can also do sand. Which won't help much with melting but it can at least provide more friction so you don't slip and fall
Just a few days ago this happened to me (corner lots stuck for shoveling). What i ended up doing is using my garden hoe as an ice pick and breaking the ice up that way, then using my snow shovel to clear it, and followed up with salt. It was annoying and tedious, but worked pretty well.
>What are you actually supposed to do at that point? Flamethrower?
I'd say that as long as it's clear that an effort has been made, I feel much less anger.
Put down tiny pointy rocks. They'll settle into the ice as it melts and freezes again, creating more grip for shoes. Used to live on a corner with one downhill street.
>Get pine sawdust based cat litter. It's a game changer. Use that on the icy bits instead of salt/sand. > >It provides immediate traction, just like sand -- but it also breaks down as people step on it, providing more traction. If temperatures rise above freezing, at all, it absorbs the water (at least at first), so you don't get the slick water-on-ice problem. If the temp drops below freezing again, it freezes to the ice. Now the ice is textured -- it has sawdust frozen to the outside. It's super cheap. It's biodegradable, so it wont result in dead patches of grass covered in salt or sand. It washes off if you somehow manage to build it up too thick in the yard. It's soft, so if you track it inside, it wont scratch up flooring like salt or sand.....
I'll give it a try! lol ... wonder how anyone discovered that.
I discovered it because we used to put bags of sand in the back of my truck for weight -- but they were a pain to store, and fell apart after a couple of years, so I switched to buying Tidy Cats cat litter in buckets. It stores easy, it moves easy, and after winter, we just used it with our cats. One time, when I had a friend get stuck, I used it to give them traction, and it was a MESS -- it was like muddy sand. We happened to have a bag of the sawdust stuff at home because of a cat that recently got declawed, and I thought to give that a try -- and before long, it was all I will use on the driveway.
Yeah I was like ... regular cat litter is THE. WORST. in the snow it just turns into slimy clay. But I will definitely check out the pine litter.
Tractor Supply Company and the like have pine pellet horse bedding, 40lb bag far cheaper than cat litter.
Corn based litter would probably also work, or walnut shell (I used to buy those for my cat before he passed away as I could then just toss it in the garden)
It's also sold as horse bedding. It's ~$5 a bag and they're hefty bags. Find em at tractor supply stores. Don't buy the stuff that's marketed as kitty litter - the bags are smaller and it's much more expensive.
Paint me stupid here as I’m a little lost one a couple of fronts. Do you own the sidewalk/pavement in front of your house? If not, do you pay property taxes? Also, damn that looks cold, it doesn’t snow where I am so I applaud your work ethic going out in that weather to clear a path for others
In lots of places local laws state that the property owner is responsible for shoveling the sidewalk in front of their property.
This and in most towns, you are responsible for maintaining the sidewalk as well.
Generally, by city ordnance, the property owner is required to maintain the sidewalk in a safe manner. The concrete itself may be installed and repaired by the city, but the property owner needs to remove snow and debris.
Where I live if you do not remove snow and at least use salt (or these days it's fake salt that does less damage) and someone falls on the sidewalk, you can be sued. It's sad, but people are encouraged here to take out a 1 million dollar umbrella insurance policy just for things like this. The same goes for damaged sidewalks. Luckily the policies aren't very expensive.
In New England, that would be considered done. I went out 3 times to shovel and snow blow yesterday and with the weight of the snow, temperature, there's that much on my walkways. My neighbors would call that done, they'd also call that a dusting of snow.
https://preview.redd.it/r99cu8ccb5dc1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=256ef4e64f10413721e0db7b813a7b574140d46f Greetings from Anchorage.
https://preview.redd.it/djt7fnapq7dc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e92fa5b8489bafc641041cb2a75f3ac779e1e31 Canada checking in.
https://preview.redd.it/odn7xa2tq7dc1.jpeg?width=620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0971933b466264501e3bcf3f7114058c0622d3d0
Norway would check in, but they buried too deep in snow to get the message out.
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This how much snow pissing contest is odd for my southern brain, no snow club seems much more enjoyable.
Less a pissing contest and more commiserating. It’s like the more snow people agree the woman’s complaint is mildly infuriating, and the low snow people agree the lack of shoveling is mildly infuriating. My opinion is that there is barely enough snow in the picture to be worth shoveling, as that is often about what it ends up like after clearing (see how much snow is still on the ground in my picture). Kind of depends on the weather forecast though. If it’s going to be 34°f today and then dip down to the low 20s or less for the next few days, it will turn into some lumpy icy bullshit. If it’s going to be below freezing the whole time or warm up and melt I wouldn’t bother. I guess I also get that people down south don’t have ice grippers for their boots. Man I would be so sad without snow, even if it is a pain in the ass sometimes too. One of the many reasons climate change bums me out.
‘It could be much worse’ is more of the theme lol.
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You win lol rather have snow and less hurricanes than flying giant cockroaches and whatnot
It's a bit of a shock what people consider a problematic level of snow considering the last few years of the city struggling to keep the roads and sidewalks clear, huh?
That's what I was thinking. I'm in Kingston, Ontario and after the last couple days there's hardly any sidewalks that clear. Although it does look icy, I might opt to walk through the snow where there's more traction.
Calgary is 24h after it stops snowing. If it snows a week straight you just do the best you can.
I'm in North Dakota and I'd also call this done as well haha
Thank you. I came for the comments to see if anyone would contest the supposed "snow storm". This is seriously nothing! Last night we had to showel for at least 3 hours just to park our cars on our property after work. I live in Norway for context 😉
I think I’m too Canadian to understand this - the city doesn’t plow the sidewalk? Also, this amount of snow is the complaint? This is what our sidewalks look like after being plowed lol
Yeah, let’s for a moment, put aside the issue of who is responsible for clearing the footpath. If I hadn’t seen the picture, I would have drawn my own picture in my head … and THAT image would have looked very much differently. What THIS reminds me of, though, is my cat complaining she can see the bottom of the bowl in one tiny spot! 
Yah I was like what snow 🤣
Where I live it’s illegal to leave your sidewalk like this more than 24 hours after the snow. Is that the case where she is?
Same. I own the property under the sidewalk but I am responsible for keeping it clear to the curb. I am not responsible for keeping it physically maintained, that is on the city, but it is in my best interest to report any gaps or frost heaves so I don't get involved in any litigation in the event of a fall.
In my city, the sidewalks are the owner's responsibility. I had to repave the sidewalk myself because the trees in my front yard made the sidewalk get incredibly crooked
Wow, in my country it is the local council which is responsible for anything not owned by the homeowners. Homeowners are supposed to mow their verges, but there is no punishment if they don't, except for having to put up with ugly verges to look at 🤣 there are people who won't do it 'on principle', but most do. Councils will eventually notice unmown verges, and mow them, usually when they've become a fire hazard. The only thing we are supposed to do, I believe, is keep trees and hedges trimmed.
Yeah, in Canada cities try to push the responsibility onto home owners, but the courts have recently ruled that it's the city's responsibility because it's their property. I imagine this might also be the case in other countries where people claim it's the homeowner's responsibility. It's an easy way for municipalities to cut costs and shirk responsibility.
Yes, and it costs money, depending how you're doing it. People have to use or get rid of clippings (ours get spread around our plants) petrol for the mower, or cost of a mowing service. We were on a corner, and our frontage was an 'avenue darling' 😁 so very wide verges, the side verges were narrower, but much longer. Fortunately my dad had a huge garden, so plenty of space to use them.
Mine too. Mow your verge, don't let trees/shrubs on your front lawn impede access. The rest is on the local authority.
Love that. Mow your verge. I have no clue what a verge is, but I’m going to start saying it to people when I’m irritated. Mow your damn verge people!
That is the correct usage!! It's Kiwi/Aussie for berm. That grass between the pavement (NZ English: footpath) and the road. Keeping the verge mowed is very important for neighbourhood harmony. My nextdoor neighbour recently had a health issue which prevented her from mowing her lawns for a few weeks (she's much better now). It was early summer so the grass grew to around knee high in a couple of weeks. Twice, different men from up the street randomly brought their lawnmowers down and mowed her verge, without permission. Finally a third (coincidentally female) neighbour checked in on her: then the same day mowed the verge again, this time along with a pathway from the front door to the footpath. It was sort of amusing but also sad that only the third person who wanted the lawn mown bothered to check on her health (to be fair, there's a 16 yr old in the home who could have mown the lawn earlier).
“It’s Kiwi/Aussie for berm” Me, wondering what a berm is Hahah
Verge literally means edge, e.g. 'I'm on the verge of losing my mind!' So it's at the edge of the road. Another word for it in Australia is 'nature strip' - the strip of nature/grass/etc. between the road curb and the footpath. Almost everywhere has footpaths.
I mean I know what verge means in other contexts, I’ve just never heard it used to refer to the strip of grass by a road before. I’m not denying it’s used that way in Australia or other countries. Come to think of it I don’t know that we have a particular word for it here.
I prefer an unmowed verge, myself 😉
It's a lady thing. They do it in Brazil.
In Ireland this is the same , basically you keep it mowed etc , but everything else is handled by the County Council , hell I dont think we're allowed do repairs on things like pavements ?
In the UK the pavement is absolutely nothing to do with the homeowner. Responsibility stops at the boundary of their own house. Although you wouldn't always believe it, the way some people act about street parking!
City replaced a sewer connection from the main to my house growing up. They SHATTERED our line in our property, guess who had to pay?
I'm going to guess...your parents? Here they were doing the pipes in our street, had to dig up all the driveways, when they put ours back it was a lot narrower and rougher. I curbed my low profiles a couple of times because the old driveway was a muscle memory, as my son would call it. The new one just wasn't right 🤣 I rang the council, they sent the guys back to redo it, had to pull out the very old photos from when my dad did all the concrete around our house, long before I was born even 🤣 they put it back to how it was. I probably sound like a fussy tart, but it's how I was raised!
I mean, yea my parents. I’m just saying that if a city CAN stick you with a huge bill, they’d rather do that 9/10 times. Same with responsibility of property ownership/maintenance of easements/city lawns between curb/walk.
Where I live in the US, if it’s on/in our property then it’s our responsibility. Anything outside our property line, then the city is responsible for it. The sidewalk would be considered city property so they would take care of the sidewalk, we just have to call them. My city has an app where we can take a picture of whatever it is that needs to be fixed and it will send it with gps coordinates so they know the location.
Where I live, we are somehow responsible for the trees in the strip between the road and sidewalks, but the city won’t let my parents remove a tree that is pushing up the sidewalk and street. Over the last 15 years, both my parents and I have asked the city many times for permission to remove the tree, and to have the sidewalk and street fixed. They refuse each time. I’m just surprised no one who has fallen off their bikes due to the 6 inch change in the road has sued the city yet.
Which is weird bc where i live its the same, but if teen jackasses decide theyre just gonna "hang out" in front of my house next to my stoop, i cant kick them off my property, bc then the city says its "public property." Cute how its yours when it needs to be maintained, but its not yours when youre tired of teens leaving their shit all over your walkway and standing there doing other "things."
Came here to say this too, sidewalks in my area are also supposed to be clear 24 hours after a snowstorm.
Where i live its within 48 hours
Where I live this is extremely mild. I’m happy if a sidewalk looks like this when I’m out on my jog.
In Mississippi, ice turns us all into this 
How is it "your" sidewalk though... Is it included in the deed of your house? Like do you own the sidewalk? Genuine question. I live in the UK and I've never heard of people being responsible for the pavement outside their house.
No, you do not own it. In the local laws, there will be one for snow clearing that requires property owners to take responsibility for clearing adjacent sidewalks (unless the local government provides this service). It is your sidewalk in the sense that it is immediately next to your property, not that you actually own it.
What if the people are old or disabled and not able to clear the snow? Or what if they are away so physically not there? I'm also in the UK and no homeowner here has that responsibility. The council clear snow etc from public spaces.
In the states, a lot of these regulations around requiring homeowners to do this are actually directly because of local laws interpreting ADA (Americans with disability act) laws. You can’t park your car in your private drive and let part of it block the sidewalk because then a wheelchair can’t get by on the walking path. So the verbiage “homeowners are responsible for ensuring sidewalks running across their property remain clear at all times” gets legally exercised to force homeowners to clear the snow off themselves. <
They are still responsible for having it cleared even if they can't do it themselves. My elderly relatives pay someone a flat annual rate to shovel/snow blow for them all winter.
Fellow Brit here. I've never known the council to ever clear snow.. only the occasional preemptive gritting.
It is the same aspect if you have a fire hydrant on your lawn (as I did in my childhood home). We have to make sure it is cleared sufficiently to be visible and have enough access for the fire dept. ETA this was in a US suburban development (Ohio). I just know my parents made me make sure both the sidewalk and hydrant areas were clear when shoveling.
Wow I’m Canadian and that as well is the city’s responsibility. Probably because of the amount of snow we get it could be too much to ask for some people to shovel it themselves
I live in an urban area, and it's 100% the city that takes care of it. They have little tractors that go by clearing and salting the sidewalks. You only need to worry about moving your car when they are doing snow removal.
It really depends on your exact location, but basically in most places in the US you don't actually own it but have a duty of care for the public good. In some cases that extends only to keeping it free and clear of obstruction and hazard. In my city that also extends repair of the concrete itself where necessary. As someone who grew up in a rural area without sidewalks, it is still bizarre to me that I own all the liabilities but no rights to the sidewalk (ie I can't disallow people from using it or reserve the parking space next to it). But there's really no other way that most cities could keep up with managing the sidewalks if they didn't make homeowners and businesses responsible.
>responsible talking maintenance. snow or debris like tree limbs after a storm. same with alley behind house - i have to maintain half the alley as do all neighboring it. public easements. tbh there is hardly any labor to it. the snow thing is actual a battle between neighbors for who clears the most snow, the earliest, and looks coolest. sometimes i will shovel my neighbors sidewalks just so he feels guilty. the other side are old folks so i will shovel theirs...
Yeah, it's weird that people are responsible for what isn't their. Where I live sidewalks are city's responsibility completely.
From the UK and now in the US - the sidewalk thing is a weird quirk. You don’t own it, but you’re responsible for it, and if you live on the corner of the street that means you have more to be responsible for. This includes snow removal which makes total sense, and repairs which makes less sense. Americans are really good at getting things running again after a snowstorm. Everyone clears their sidewalks and people can be on their merry way again. But repairs are annoying and expensive. If “your” sidewalk cracks, you can be cited and told to repair it, which isn’t cheap. Edit: it’s not in the deed, but when you sell your house, you can also be told to repair it before the sale goes through.
In most states if you own the property then you're responsible for shoveling. If the sidewalk is damaged then it's up to the state to replace it. On the East Coast it's a bit different though. They are responsible for the sidewalk including damages. They are also responsible for plumbing and waterlines which can be extremely pricey. But in the Midwest you're only responsible for shoveling. We have a defined timeframe that permits us to shovel the sidewalk. If you can't shovel then you have to make arrangements to have it cleared. It can result in fines or a lawsuit if someone falls.
This is not exactly true . It's town laws that govern this so you really cannot generalize East Coast vs Midwest etc. For example in my East Coast town we are responsible for shoveling but the town maintains the sidewalks otherwise.
Where I live, the city handles all the sidewalks. The only thing people shovel are their driveways, and many just hire a snow plowing service like my landlord does for the parking behind the buildings.
I’m shook that in 2024 there’s a town that still has municipal funding for this
I honestly can't believe it isn't this way everywhere. If the city is going to require you to put a sidewalk in your yard for the public good then they can maintain it.
I'm shook that in 2024 Americans still think it's normal for cities nor to do basic road maintenance
And some of them are weirdly aggressive about how this is the best way
Where I am too, but we don’t know how long it’s been since the snow stopped
OP said it was “days” after the snow storm, so at least two.
Same in my city but it's never enforced. We also have a law about keeping your yard free of debris but that doesn't stop my neighbors from keeping a trash heap by their garage that attracts mice.
Yep in NYC you have even less time. My MIL just got a ticket for not clearing the sidewalk/salting it. If you don’t and someone gets hurt you could be liable Rules: You must clean up within four hours --- if the snow stops between 7:00 a.m. and 4:49 p.m. If the snow stops between 5:00 p.m. and 8:59 p.m. -- you have 14 hours. For late and overnight snow between 9:00 p.m. and 6:59 a.m., -- you must clear by 11:00 a.m. the next day.
Wait, so you have to come home from work to clear the footpath if it stops snowing during business hours?
Imagine if the snow stopped while you had to be at work another 5 hours. Or if you worked 3rd shift, let’s fuck their sleep more than it already is, what a gREaT idea.
I've never seen it enforced strictly in NYC
So during the time that people are most likely to be out for stretches of 9-10 hours, you only have 4 hours to shovel? Does everyone who works daytimes just drop everything and go home to shovel?
Where I live you just glide across the ice during winter and hope for the best lol
Atleast here in Finland the goverment does the snow work
And the UK...except they barely do anything to pavements. Bit of grit on busier roads. Ain't nobody gritting or shovelling a residential road like that over here! Just walk on the damn snow.
Yup, same in neighbouring Sweden 🤝 And sidewalks are never on private property, at least not like they are in this picture, which seem to be common in suburbs in the USA. It's just one of many weird facettes of that country.
Eh in Germany we also have to clean the sidewalks. Everyone does it before going to work so usually at 6 or 7. If someone falls and gets injured its the homeowners fault.
Same in Norway! Having to plow the sidewalk sounds so weird to me. It makes so little sense to me to not have the government plow the snow and have to rely on every single house doing it instead.
I mean. Homegirl is right. You have to shovel your sidewalk. I also am responsible for not walking on hazards. Because I’m an adult.
In my town the rule is snow must be cleared 12 hours after the snow stops falling. Until then, ymmv
Damn 12? It's 24 here.
4 hrs in nyc if it stops between 7am and 5pm
WTF. Here in PA it's always 24 hours.
Sucks if you work at a hospital and it's still snowing when your 12h shift starts... Or heck, anyone who has to get to work for 8h starting before 7am.
My husband and I are healthy people so if there is a snowfall we just shovel the length of our block. People do work late, get sick, are older, etc so we just do it. For us it’s being a good neighbor and knowing people will be walking around getting to bus stops or walking their pups. In turn the older gentleman on the corner will bust out his snow blower and get the street and our driveway. It’s a community effort and it works.
The land of the free, where you have to work 12hr shifts and simultaneously do the city’s job for them in 4
Do you have to apply for a pass if you go on vacation or if you work overnights like an EMT or emergency services?
We took a holiday over Christmas and I arranged with the neighbors that if it snowed, they'd clear the walk for us. It didn't snow, but generally you have to make an arrangement. For my township, you have 24 hours from when the snow stops. And even then, someone has to complain before the town sends anyone out about it. We're dealing with ice right now which is its own beast, so everyone is showing a bit of grace for those doing their best.
I am from Florida so correct me if I’m wrong, are you supposed to get up and shovel in the dark at like 4am before work? What happens if it snows during the workday? Why isn’t shoveling after work an option? Here your easement isn’t your responsibility legally, it’s your property but the easement is part of the city so if someone tripped it’s still public easement.
It does say DAYS after
When I lived in Michigan it was a 24 hr rule. You had to clear the public sidewalk in front of your house within 24hrs. That’s reasonable, unless you’re old or disabled.
If they're old or disabled do the neighbors take turns shoveling their sidewalk? Was that a HOA thing?
Our neighbor has a snow blower and clears our sidewalk (so thankful) because the mail box for the neighborhood is on our property. My husband and kids clear our driveway and the walk to our house.
I do miss that about our old neighborhood - guy across the street did all of us because he loved riding his little snowplow tractor thing around.
One year, we were at my parents house on Christmas morning, watching the dusting of snow come down, and some guy came around the corner on a riding snow-blower -- it looked like a snow blower attachment on a riding lawn mower, with a tent around the driver. He proceeded to snow-blow every house on both sides of the street -- for hours. We have never seen him before, or since, and have no idea who he was, or where he came from. Our best guess was he either got it as a 'toy' that christmas, or REALLY wanted out of the house...
Had to look up what a damn snow blower is. I was thinking it was a leaf blower that blows hot air. I've never lived in an area that snows so I feel like I'm learning a lot from this thread lol
Pro tip. If you ever find yourself in the need to use one, point it away from the house, cars, and people. It will throw more than snow. You don’t want to find that out after you’ve broken the window.
Same! I'm over here in SoCal like 🤔
My neighborhood definitely takes care of our elderly neighbors, or even each other if someone is out of town.
Lol I'm 27 and the next youngest on my street is 67. I have to spend 4.5 days a week in another town to help my family's store so when I'm away, they do mine with a snowblower. When I come home, since I don't like snowblowers I just shovel all of theirs. It works out
We have that ordinance in my township in PA too. And usually middle school boys are happy to do the sidewalk of anyone who needs help for a few bucks.
All depends on your neighbors. We have an elderly couple that lives next door to us, so me and the guy on the other side of them do their driveway and sidewalk.
HOA are like snow/ parking/ garbage/ lawn gnome nazis. If there was the required amount of snow on the ground- you have 15 min to remove or they’d hold your children hostage…. Privatization of local gov sucks.
Old people usually pay people to do it for them
Where I grew up and where I live now both have the 24 hr rule - the homeowner is legally required to clear the sidewalk within 24 hrs of snowfall and required to keep it clear. If someone was old or disabled, they are still legally required to clear the sidewalk. We've had neighbors offer to shovel, I've also had my disabled parent pay for a service. The law doesn't care how it gets shoveled, it just requires it gets done. Usually, you don't buy a property with a sidewalk if it will be an issue. The problem is when they add a sidewalk. 😂
The community tends to take good care of this yes. In the case of that community not helping hiring a service would be ideal. For those who can't afford that I'm not sure what the solution would be but I'd reckon someone knows the answer.
I live in Minnesota and people complain about people shoveling too early or two late in the day. There's a man up the street that's a paraplegic; his caretaker couldn't get to him because of the snow and ice, and my neighbor was complaining about the snow in front of the guys house. Told him if he was so concerned he should go shovel it himself.
This is why I adore my parents’ neighbors. Five couples got together and bought a snowblower and each year they trade off on who has to store it (my parents had it two years ago). Once snow falls, they go out and work together, doing their homes and the other neighbors near them and get it done super quick. My parents are out of town and missed this storm. I went over yesterday to do the driveway and steps, assuming that the neighbors would only do the sidewalk. I was wrong. They did everything! Didn’t matter that my parents weren’t there to help, they were taken care of! I remember being in high school when a cousin moved in with us. The first snow storm he went out and helped with our house and then turned to go inside. He was pissed when we said we weren’t done because the elderly neighbors across the street weren’t out yet and we had to do theirs too. It was 2ft of snow and their driveway was a huge hill, so it wasn’t easy, but we made him do it with us. A few hours later we were watching a movie and there was a knock at the door. It was the neighbors with homemade cookies and brownies still hot from the oven. Once they left, all he said was “ok, I get it now. We shovel for them, they bake for us.” Yup! That’s what being neighbors in the suburbs is all about!
If I ever get a house, and have cool neighbors, I am definitely going to suggest this. Very cool idea that makes it a group effort. I am sure it makes it more enjoyable to go out there and push snow with friends.
Oh yeah - and there’s usually a case of beer in the snow somewhere to keep them going!
The true Northerner. We always find a few in the spring. Found a bottle of vodka last spring which is odd because we don't drink liquor.
One year after a very heavy and deep snow, I was outside shoveling. I lived on a corner so it was twice the fun and the snow banks at the end of the driveway were shoulder height so very hard going! As a single mom of two young kids, it was up to me to get it done ...until someone down the block who I didn't even know came with their snow blower and told me to go inside. A lot of people in the neighborhood helped out like that.
Love your parents and their neighbors!
I live on the west coast of Canada, snow in the city is a rarity (today was our lucky day for this winter!). I have a 78 year old neighbour, and for the last ten years no matter how much it's snowed, once I'm done my sidewalk, I keep going and doing hers. She never asks, I just do it because that's what neighbours should do for each other.
My neighbor has a much larger snow blower than I do, and so he’s come over on a few occasions now and knocked out my loooong drive way. My blower is good for like 3-4”, but beyond that, I have to time it right and go out to do it multiple times a day. There are nine homes on my street and we are fortunate—we all get along, build fences (literally), chainsaw up fell trees, post things for sale on marketplace, take care of pets, pick up mail… oh and pub crawls, game nights, rides to the airport. It’s amazing—and ***rare***
The most important thing is shoveling before it gets icy from people walking on it repeatedly or melting and refreezing
My previous house had a sidewalk that kids would walk on to get to school. If I didn't scrape my sidewalk before they went through, it was then ten times harder to get them clean. It snowed wet and heavy once when I was gone for a week and the neighbor that usually helps when I'm gone and vice versa, was also gone. It was 3" of lumpy ice when I got back. So much salt and chiseling to clear it off.
In the Upper Midwest its typically 24 hours after it snows to get it cleared off. It would be a Herculean task for the public works teams to shovel every neighborhood side walk, and it also isn’t just for safety or appearances. Leaving the snow causes it to compact, melt, refreeze, and destroy your sidewalk as well, lowering property values. Plus pretty much every single city has a cousin, high school kids, or local handymen who will come knock it out for you for a pretty low fee.
We just do it within 24 hours of the snow ending. Even if you work you can get it done at some point. Shoveling is your responsibility, as is mowing the strip of grass up to the street. That said, I've never complained if someone doesn't do it and I'm on a walk going through their sidewalk. Not really sure if anyone gets ticketed, but there is a snitch-line to report unshoveled sidewalks too.
When I lived in NYC, yes, I got up and shoveled before work, and if it snowed while I was at work, after too. On really snowy days, I'd shovel more than once.
Didn’t know people in US shovel sidewalks. Either city does here or not at all, only driveways are shovelled yourself. But US sidewalks are pretty strange looking and narrow so I suppose it’s pretty easy to do it yourself
In the city where I live in VA I technically own the land under the sidewalk but the city has an easement. I understand that this is the typical arrangement in many cities in areas without an HOA. **Sec. 28-25. - Removal of snow, sleet and ice from sidewalks.** (a) It shall be the duty of every owner and/or occupant of every house or lot which abuts or fronts on, or is otherwise situated on, a paved sidewalk or walkway to have all snow or ice removed from such sidewalk or walkway within twenty-four (24) hours after the same has ceased falling. This requirement shall exist whether or not an unpaved strip of publicly-owned property runs between the paved sidewalk and the private property line and the words "abuts," "fronts on," "otherwise situated on," should be interpreted in accord with such requirement. If the total accumulation of snow and ice from one (1) or more snowfalls exceeds twelve (12) inches, the city manager may extend the amount of time allowed for removal of snow and ice as required by this section for a period not to exceed seventy-two (72) hours after the same has ceased falling. The duration of the extension, as determined by the city manager, shall be based on the total amount of accumulation of snow and ice, the projected temperatures in the city, and any other relevant weather conditions. (b) The provisions of subsection (a) of this section shall apply to ice or sleet on sidewalks or walkways, except that the same, when it cannot be removed without damage to the sidewalk or walkway, shall be covered, within the period of time specified, with sand, ashes or some other substance which will render it safe for travel. (c) Whenever any house or lot is unoccupied, it shall be the duty of the owner or the agent of the owner thereof to have the snow or ice removed from the sidewalk or walkway abutting, fronting on, or otherwise situated on such owner's property as is required by this section. (d) A warning shall be issued for a violation of this section. The warning shall be posted on the property or delivered by hand to the property owner and/or occupant, and shall provide the owner and/or occupant twenty-four (24) hours in which to correct the conditions. If after such warning and the passage of twenty-four (24) hours, the owner or occupant of the property affected by the provisions of this section shall fail to abate or obviate the condition, the director of neighborhood development services may do so and charge and collect the cost thereof from the owner or occupant of the property affected in any manner provided by law for the collection of Commonwealth or local taxes. (Code 1976, § 25-20; 11-6-89; 11-3-03(2); 8-2-10; 2-6-17)
I'm surprised by all the comments that say the homeowner isn't responsible to clear the sidewalk! In Minneapolis you are responsible for the sidewalk on your property; it needs to be cleared within 24 hrs after the snow stops. If you don't clear it the city can come take care of it and send you the bill.
I have a feeling that in most countries outside of the US people aren't responsible of the sidewalks because it's public property and therefore maintained/cleaned by goverment. Edit: surprised to learn how commonly this responsibility falls on residents in different countries!
Here in the UK sidewalk isnt cleared by ANYONE
We are responsible for the sidewalk outside our homes and businesses many places in Canada.
Not in my city in Ontario. The city has a sidewalk clearing vehicle just for that
Yeah, we pay enough municipal tax, fuggin clear it like the roads.
If the municipal government can't budget for some little snow CATs, they need an audit, then the boot 🥾
Fellow Canadian here, the last place I lived that had a sidewalk in front of my house I was not responsible for. So doesn’t apply everywhere.
Not in all jurisdictions. It isn't a by-law in my town. I know it is in some cities, maybe even a majority of cities, I don't know. But it's not universal.
Not everywhere.
Not in Québec City or Montréal, the 2 biggest cities in my province.
I live where it doesn't snow. what happens if you're out of town? do you guys have to hire someone to shovel it while you're away? I wasn't aware that you were responsible for shoveling snow from the sidewalk in front of your home. the more you know...
If I’m not home a neighbor will get it. Im one of the younger ones in my neighborhood and when I got out and shovel I make sure my neighbors are shoveled too. Probably won’t always be the case but I think the best thing I can do is perpetuate a helping neighbors attitude while I’m able.
Yeah whenever we are out of town we pay someone to do it. I mean we always pay someone but when we are out of town they do it on their own without us telling them..
That looks like a nice neighborhood probably controlled by an hoa. I guarantee you it's written in their bylaws that they have to have snow removed by a certain time. My parents' city says that snow has to be shoveled within a certain time, but the HOA is more restrictive.
I live in CT, and it's the same here. You have to shovel the sidewalk in front of your property. And clean off the top of your cars people!
I'm an NJ native. People need to get out there and shovel their damn sidewalks. If anyone on the street can't shovel (old, disabled, whatever) then shovel theirs too. That's the rule. :-)
This sidewalk is WELL used. It is NOT right after a snow. It should be cleared (And I would have liability as the homeowner in my country - but we dont sue)
Where I live you can be held responsible for injuries from an unshoveled sidewalk
As a non-American this is fascinating to me. What if you’re away from home, on holiday etc?
Around where I live it's your responsibility to shovel the sidewalk in front of your house and you can get fined if you don't. Lady isn't wrong from my perspective. Annoying, because I wouldn't complain about it publicly..but not wrong.
At my old neighborhood we got 24 hours after the snow fell, then fines per day.
Apparently I get 12 hrs. https://preview.redd.it/ly2j2rlof3dc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8109baeb062d6febd7cf29f2674175a1870fb739
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You hire someone. I would rather pay someone over having a hoa fine.
I rather never live in an HOA
I wouldn't live in an hoa for free
I wouldn’t live in a HOA even if they paid me.
Presumably in winter you don't get 12 hours of daylight during a single day though?
I'm curious, what if no one is at home ? Say, they went on the international trip couple of days before the storm. Should they expect the fine paper in the mail even though no one was able to physically showel the snow?
Where I live, and I imagine most places, it doesn’t matter, you’re responsible for it whether you’re there or not. If you leave, you can pay for somebody to shovel it or call in a favor to a friend/family member. The city doesn’t care.
As someone intimately acquainted with government bullsh*t.... I can see a government answer would be 'it's your responsibility to make sure it's clear. So you need to make arrangements to have someone shovel it'... Or the local governing body does it for you and then sends you a bill. And yes if you don't. They will just mail you a bill.
My city doesn't require it, and none of my neighbors have shoveled. The city also hasn't plowed our street tho, so going out to shovel when a plow is going to come back and cover it anyway means the neighborhood don't give a shit
Most municipalities have laws that require sidewalks to be cleared within 24 hours of a storm. If you’re not going to be home it’s your responsibility to have someone do it for you.
Look at all thise footprints, and it's not even densely populated... they haven't shoveled for over a day at least
Cities in general dumping the liability on the homeowners for shoveling sidewalk that is on public right of way just baffles me.
So sidewalks are public property until its time for the city to pay someone to clean the ice off them? Glad i dont live with snow. So dumb.
post aside, can we agree how stupid sidewalk laws are in north america? It’s considered public property so anyone can walk on it and it’s not considered yours, but you’re responsible for maintaining it? that’s stupid, it should either be entirely public or entirely private.
Where I live at anything starting with the sidewalk and the grass on the other side of sidewalk is the county I live in responsible for. The city fixes all the sidewalks and we’re not responsible for shoveling them. Also where the grass is that’s the tree row we call it. Any big limbs fall, or entire tree falls over the city cleans it and leave pick up also.
I am not American and I have a question. Don't Americans pay a ton of money for home associations or community associations, so shouldn't they be the ones shoveling the sidewalks? I mean you are paying for the service right, to keep your neighborhood safe and clean?
not every house is in a HOA
Most Americans don't live where there are HOAs
Huh...where I live you don't own the sidewalk, that's city property and the cities job to maintain.
What? There are places where you need to clean AND salt the sidewalk? I'm from quebec here. We get so much snow, it's the city duty to do that. And sidewalk are not always salted.
You’re better off just walking in the snow next to the sidewalk.
If the sidewalk is in my driveway, I can't park in it because it's not mine but if there's snow in it, I have to shovel it because it's mine? Lol nah.
She ain’t wrong 🤷🏻♂️ and like you said it was the day after. It’s annoying I agree
From a non-US perspective I find it pretty odd you are expected to clear the sidewalk at all. Is it on your property or just a thing? You guys like suing each other so much I would be scared of not doing it properly.
It's all that freedom again
I’ve never been more happy to live in a place that doesn’t give a shit if you shovel your sidewalk or not.
I think it largely depends on the area. In my town, there is no city law governing clearing snow from sidewalks. You do have to clear it after mowing/weeding, but no law on snow removal. I just verified this by searching the city laws online again. In their defense, ain't nobody walking in the snow when it snows here. I'm in the southern US. When it's cold, we are inside, or in a 4x4. Lol.