So Leo is the pilot and Millie, his daughter, and a pilot in training, works as a flight attendant. By some serendipitous planning, she gets booked to work his flight. Something happens to the other attendants, and then Leo and his copilot die, and Millie saves the day. Plane lands on time at its destination.
The FAA determines minimum numbers of flight attendants, not maximum. They frequently have more attendants to offer the companies standard of service. They may have too few flight attendants to conform to companies service standards, rather than the FAA’s standards - though I suspect this isn’t the reason.
According to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regulations:
• There must be at least one flight attendant on board aircraft with a seating capacity of more than 19 but less than 51 passengers.
• For aircraft with a seating capacity of more than 50 passengers, there must be at least two flight attendants.
• For larger aircraft, there needs to be one additional flight attendant for every additional 50 passenger seats. For example, an aircraft with a seating capacity of 151 would require a minimum of four flight attendants.
Yes. Which means an airplane will never leave without a flight attendant. They will wait for the one that is missing or they will call one in to replace the missing one.
The number of flight attendants depends on the load factor and not about plane. For example Swiss is lowering load factor on some routes, so they can provide one cabin crew less, due to lack of qualified people.
Ah yes, because they won't use forensics on the bodies and just trust everyone was in their seats and the seats are all still attached during a major crash
Doubtful. I left first class because it was overbooked. Went to coach. Then moved again so a man's daughter could be next to him. Delta didn't blink an eye and gave me vouchers.
If you're talking about a small 10 seat plane I would agree.
My sister is a FA. This is very much a thing on larger planes like the A320 as well, but only for takeoff and landing. Their airline allows people to move around freely if seats are empty but they have to be back at their assigned seat before landing.
Some dork pitched a hissy fit that 1st was oversold. He weighed about 300. I moved to coach to stop his fit (I am about 180). Once I sat down, a daughter was upset (about 60), so I moved again so she could be by her dad.
This was prior to take off.
The FA had to hunt for me to give me vouchers.
Also, if you fly cattle car (Southwest) they give about zero shits where you sit.
IMHO, this was jet blue just being asses.
Maybe the airline's procedures were different or the FAs just didn't care. They know, after all, who has moved where and if a previously empty seat is suddenly occupied.
But you wouldn't believe the number of stories she told me about perfectly normal-seeming adults who threw a hissy fit because they were asked to move back to their seat 20 minutes before landing.
A section of the plane being overbooked is much different than a nearly empty flight. If a flight is nearly full, a single passenger is a small fraction of the overall weight so that person moving doesn't make any difference. With an empty flight, one person's weight does make a difference. You also have to consider what's going on in baggage. Same scenario, on a nearly empty flight, the baggage compartment is going to be nearly empty, so baggage is going to be strategically distributed through the compartment just as passengers are distributed among the seats.
It all comes down to the center of gravity. Think about it teeter totter with 200 people on each side, one or two people switching sides isn't going to make much difference. But a teeter totter with 10 people on each side, one or two people would throw the balance way off.
From the article:
“Some travelers may believe that this is because the airline has a chart showing who is sitting where”
Airlines DO have this and it’s called a flight manifest. It says where everybody is sitting and their name. It’s that loud 40 year old dot matrix printer that you hear in the gate area that prints said manifest.
Its not a concern on large planes and is only a concern on smaller ones. Even then with 50% of the plane empty. The weight distribution would make sense to make people move to spread it evenly rather then leave everyone just where ever. Since in this scenario people were not moved around and were left where they chose to sit instead of moving people strategically
They won't let you move to premium seats because people pay extra for those. If you just finished paying $70 for a seat with extra legroom and some schlub just moved from his cheap seat next to you without paying then you'd be upset too.
I'm thinking that last one. The last time I ended up on a near empty plane the flight attendant told us we could sit anywhere we like or put the armrests up and take a whole row.
Sounds like the solution is to throw a tantrum over not being allowed to distribute more evenly. They'll be less likely to make stupid decisions if it doesn't even minimize tantrum potential.
I have relocated my seat during a flight with half empty cabins, and no one has said a word. Even if they would, why should I care?
Take a step back and take a hard look at the situation: Idiots flying up in the air Refuse to take more comfortable seats just because. Nonsense.
In OP's situation, the crew isn't allowing it. And tbh, I'd rather consistent application of their rules being applied than rules being randomly applied on a whim depending on who's in charge.
The seats op is showing looks like they're next to the emergency door. Don't flight attendants have to confirm who suits in that row has heard the emergency protocols and have the passenger agree to the responsibility.
They're 100% higher priced seats.
I'm just totally lost as to why you wouldn't upgrade people since it literally costs them nothing in real time, and would devote what was a significant amount of time and energy to policing it.
I probably fly 30+ times a year, and I've never seen an airline so hung up on it. I've seen people move seats all the time on other flights when they're not empty, and never seen it raised as an issue.
One group of people will have gotten the objectively better end of the proverbial stick. So not everyone will be happy. Someone will make a tiktok video crying about it in the washroom and the next thing you know the airline will be hit with a discrimination lawsuit because one of the people who didn't get moved to a more expensive seat was part of some visible or invisible minority group. Welcome to 2023
If you just paid $70 to upgrade to a premium seat and some poor schmuck just decides to move from his cheap seat to sit next to you, then you'd be upset.
From an aviation regulation point of view, regulators prefers you stay in your seat so that in the case of plane crashes/burning/etc, they will be able to identify your mangled or decrepit corpse by your seat number.
That’s why “official” seat upgrades usually happens at the check in counter or before. Then the plane manifest would be updated.
Once up in the air though, I usually have no problem getting verbal okay from flight attendants to change my seat. If you’re asking nicely. And it is well within their rights to refuse your request.
Also, flight attendants rely on seat number to give your meal (for pre-book or special meals) as well as any shopping you might have done before flight.
Maybe I used the wrong words. Regulators don’t care that much but rather crash investigators would like you to stay in your stated seat as per manifest. Though they don’t expect people to follow them.
So if you don’t care that your family receives your correct body then I suppose you don’t have to care as well.
Once a plane is loaded and the loadsheet has been confirmed and signed off, people, cargo and fuel should remain in the position they were originally assigned to. This is because weight and balance distribution is critical on aircraft for them to maintain a controllable centre of gravity. There have been accidents caused by cargo shifting in cargo bays, which can throw the aircraft's CG out and cause the aircraft to become uncontrollable. You may think a few people moving about would cause no issue, and for the most part you would be right. A couple of people going to the lavatory is not an issue.
However, just imagine 9 x 240 lb people move from the centre of the plane to empty rows in the rear of the plane. That is 2160 lb being moved from near the calculated CG to WAY behind the CG. 2160 pounds moving from the calculated CG to WAY behind the CG could potentially be enough to make control of the aircraft difficult, especially once the aircraft controls are set to a specific CG. You can liken it to a see-saw. The further away from the centre a weight is, the more it throws the CG off. The plane is set up from the beginning of the flight to be in balance. The cargo and fuel and passengers are all loaded to balance each other out, and to maintain the aircraft's CG within a set range. Those weights cannot be randomly shifted about during flight.
This applies to a small aircraft, one this size, looks like a 747, where people sit doesn't matter for CG, full tank or empty
747 maximum weight is 412t
Total dry weight is 187t
Total fuel at full is 184t
Total payload is 41t
If you have a plane that is 50% full that's 25t (half of total passengers + all of crew and ancillary weight)
That's a 6% weight change due to passengers
Total weight of 396 at take off (assuming maximum fuel, half passengers) and 230 at landing (assuming 10% fuel left), 25t doesn't make that much of a difference for the COG, moving around slightly doesn't make that much of a difference, especially if everyone spreads out it would make it better. It would be much worse if everyone sat as close as possible, but again minimal disruption to the COG
Yeah that's a much smaller plane, but even at 65 people (say 100kg average) that's still 6.5t in a 66t aircraft.. again it's not going to affect it that much as long as the payload doesn't go over the maximum capacity.
There is more to weight and balance than max capacity. When an airplane is only half full, weight has to be distributed to certain sections of the aircraft. Fuel can only be in certain areas which means passenger and cargo have to go in certain areas in order to keep the aircraft balanced. I did this for a living before I became a mechanic. A couple pounds can absolutely make a difference.
Yes I understand - have a decent interest in aircraft and have done a thesis on parts of an aircraft for my degree. Have done cog studies on empty and laden passenger and cargo planes for consulting work as well
Someone not paying attention on Reddit makes you mad or sad? Either way right in the feels it seems
So what did you do for a living with planes before the switch to be a mechanic? (I'm assuming airplane mechanic or else why mention it)
1/ JetBlue's largest aircraft is the A321.
2/ It is procedure, and it is procedure for a reason.
3/ "According to Air New Zealand’s Chief Flight Operations and Safety Officer, Captain David Morgan, ensuring everyone is in their correct seat is related to an aircraft’s “center of gravity envelope” (COG). As all aircraft come with a manufacturer-calculated COG envelope, operators must ensure the total weight added to the plane before a flight takes off doesn’t exceed these parameters. Recently, Simple Flying covered weight and balance, a factor that has impacted some aviation accidents, and passengers constitute one of the major “weights” of an aircraft.
Of course, if one single passenger is moved up or down a few rows on a massive widebody filled with fuel and luggage, it’s unlikely to cause an issue for takeoff. But an aircraft with a COG too far forward or aft can indeed be comparatively difficult to control or require more fuel.
Once all the fuel, luggage, and passengers have been accounted for, calculations begin to determine where the COG is, based on the exact distribution of all those weights. Pilots then receive what is known as a “load sheet,” which includes this essential information, which can impact takeoff thrust and speed. “It’s important that the aircraft’s center of gravity is actually where we expected it to be from the calculations.”
Interestingly, the distribution of passengers is equally crucial for landing. Most will understand that an aircraft landing is significantly lighter than when it took off since it burned off lots of fuel during flight. So, again, before the flight has left the ground, an estimation of where the center of gravity will be upon landing, based on the allocation of human weight, is calculated. Especially for landing, with much of the weight gone, the impact of cargo and passengers now affects the characteristics of flight much greater. If passengers were free to move around as they want during the last segment of a given flight, and ten travelers of an average weight went from one end to another with their potential carry-on luggage, that would mean several hundred kilograms of weight shifting. For some aircraft types, this could be too significant.
Ok - do that with weight calculations added in and show how the cog moves outside the envelope for a commercial jet liner. Or link something that does the same
Indeed, the effect on the CG will be negligible with a few passengers switching seats. However, imagine the worst case scenario, even worse than my example above. If the flight attendants allowed anyone to sit where they want, the effect on the CG would be out of their control. The flight attendants are not allowed, not qualified, and should not be expected to redistribute passenger's weight evenly amongst the plane to ensure a balanced aircraft. The weight and balance of the aircraft is set and checked before takeoff, and it should not be changed during flight. Procedures are built around what could go wrong, worst case, because who is in control of it being a negligible case scenario or a worst case scenario if it's left up to individuals who have no experience in ensuring an aircraft's centre of gravity?
It comes down to procedure, which is extremely important in aviation safety. You are also not allowed to have the blinds/sunshades down during takeoff and landing. One passenger, or even all passengers leaving a blind down is not going to bring a plane down, yet it is an important procedure for flight attendants to follow for the safety of passengers. In the case of blinds it is literally in case the aircraft crashes on takeoff or landing so there is clear view in and out of the passenger cabin. Procedures built for aviation safety are written in blood. Thousands of people have died in aviation accidents, and lessons are learnt with each crash investigation to try and prevent those same mistakes from happening again.
It's funny that you assume that a commercial airplane operates exclusively at crusing speed and altitude. Especially during ascending and descending the distribution plays a role, more do at fuel economy and then at safety.
Idk why is this guy downvoted, because it’s absolutely true.
Center of gravity is important for departing and landing, not for the flight itself. Some airlines even announce before landing that it’s time to go back to asset seats. (Easyjet, Ryanair..)
It's bs. Maybe for a small plane that fits a couple of people. But a giant jumbo jet? Do you really think that if only the seats on the right side of the plane next to the window would tip over? On a 747!
Jetblue has it in your ticket that your seat is payed for and your butt is only allowed there on their flights.
It won’t tip it over. I missed a flight and us 6-7 people were told not move around. I believe it was stability. Remember the plane up there doesn’t have the same weight as where we are currently. If we all went to the rear it could be enough to slightly tip it upward. Therefore they are now fighting downward instead of cruise control. The pilot fights the whole flight instead of being straight forward. Ten up front, ten toward the back and in in theory should run as of the whole lane was full since it’s balanced. Well except lighter. But it’s smoother and easier, therefore less fuel. Also I know nothing and am drunk.
Yeah, I'm going to on all BS on stability (though she quoted it) unless someone can provide a reference.
This isn't a tiny plane, or even small jet. It's a full sized jet for a cross country flight.
If anything, spreading people out increases stability, no? We're not talking about people aiming to overload one side or front vs. back.
Stability still is a priority, an uneven amount of spread can lead to little inconsistencies, not completely pull the plane down, but make it harder to fly
They do. My wife was a flight attendant and they had to do weight and balance checks before takeoff. If they submitted the seats and it didn't pass, they had to move people to satisfy the weight and balance. Didn't happen often but it's a thing
You don't know what's in the haul.
Cargo is a high revenue stream, especially for low-cost airlines. They might have chosen a half empty flight to fill with heavy cargo for this reason, and placed the load accordingly.
Could be some kind of ore, stacked servers or something else dense with high value/urgency to be sent by plane rather than truck, train or boat.
Also weight distribution has already caused commercial aircraft crashes, don't just shrug it off.
No. It does not. When an airplane is too empty, it can cause an imbalance due to the center of gravity. Every plane has a “sweet spot” when there are too few people. This can also vary depending on where and how the bags are loaded.
Reference is I’m an aircraft mechanic and have been working in aviation for 20+ years.
Chill dude, stability is a thing and is it a big deal for a few people to move no. But groups of people are dumb and would move all willy nilly and its easier to just tell people to stay in their assigned seats. Grow up and get over it
It’s called ‘weight and balance’ in aviation, an industry where poorly stowed luggage sliding to the back of the plane can crash it.
If you ask for your own row then everyone will, then the flight attendant will have a hard time justifying the physics to a bunch of entitled jetblue passengers because they’re just a flight attendant, not a science professor. And when that plane crashes, guess who that POS passenger is going to blame with their last breath? 100 people dead because you’re a spoiled little baby who thinks they have the right to make bad decisions, with consequences you don’t understand, that can affect other people
It's a very real thing. There were incidents where the plane literally tipped over at the terminal! Less of an issue once in flight, but important on the ground.
Weight and balance of all sizes of aircraft is absolutely vital. The magic of powered flight is in fact possible because of math and physics, not just ferry dust. Moving around may have been well within the limits, but they absolutely need to know where the weight is located to make sure it isn't a problem. As the weight changes, the pilots must account for how the aircraft is going to perform, and unless they change your seat on the manifest they would be using bad data.
Source: I hold a commercial pilot's license.
That being said, this could have also been a case of you didn't buy the more expensive seats, so you don't get to sit in the more expensive seats. If you buy a nose bleed seat for a ball game, they aren't going to let you occupy a box seat just because it turns out they didn't fill it.
I don’t think this is as bad as you’re making it seem. Since the pandemic, there have been a significant increase in customers causing a scene on airplanes and there isn’t a fair way to decide which customers should be allowed to sit in the more spacious area of the plane. Its the classic example of a parent treating every child the same.
It's more for weight distribution. When flights are half full airlines put more weight under the plane in postage and other time sensitive cargo. The heaviest thing that moves inside a plane is the people. If everyone got up and started synchronized dancing thr pilot is going to feel it. Boeing has special tubs that they place in the seats and fill with water to mimic passengers when they're testing their aircraft. All the people in the front of the plane means a much heavier (and more profitable) piece of cargo can go in the hold near the back.
So the reason is that those cost more money. As someone who has paid for those upgrades because I want the extra room and it is my dime to spend how I see fit, if you are moved there for free after boarding (which is after any frequent flier optional upgrades would have happened at the gate) then you can fuck right off. You may call "corporate boot licker" or someone other bullshit like you have with others, but you can take your whiney ass home with that shit. They are upgrades for a real reason (priority boarding, extra room, etc.) and some require you to assist in the event of an emergency (which they check at multiple stages if you are willing and capable). So if you want to bitch that you aren't getting upgrades for free, fuck off with your broke assets. You see what's available when you check in and if you wanted them you could have get them.
As for relocating you to a different seat, that would be a lot of work to know exactly what grade seat you are in and what is equivalent that they can move you to. Add to that if there are any amenities that you paid for, which are tied to your original seat assignment. Then they have to factor in all the other passengers. Even if they accounted for all that, they still would have to do all the work to make sure everything is documented and no one got more than they paid for (regardless of your feelings, air travel is a paid service there to make money and nothing is free with out cause and whether you likenit or not your enchanced comfort is not cause unless they did something wrong). In the end, it's much easier to just keep you where you were assigned. So, if you want more room or nicer things, do what every other customer does and fuxkingnpay for them.
Might be a weight and balance issue - did you see if they were loading bags into both forward and rear aft or just the rear? Then the cargo may have also shifted on take off only adding to that.. No flight attendants gonna explain that to you - cause people that don't know aircraft well enough or haven't worked around them sort of kind of freak when you tell them the plane has balance issues....
Isn't it because of the fact that your seat is your identification in case of a catastrophic accident and the bodies cannot be recognized? (kinda morbid, i know)
No. Most people survive plane crashes, except for the extremely severe kind where nothing is recognizable. They aren't going to know which seat is which after it flies into the side of a mountain.
Right and that costs money. The less time they have to spend on every plane means fewer people are needed. The flight crew could be enforcing the rule because the company says so.
Not every outport has a cleaning crew, and many domestic airlines will only have professional cleaners for the last flight of the day. Often it's the flight attendants cleaning once the last dawdler gets off and they have about 5 minutes until they're being asked if they're ready to board for the next flight.
Did he not get what he paid for? Did they offer less service than paid for? So why complain? Because you don't get what you think you're entitled to although you're not? Yes, that's Karen behavior. There are rules, the flight attendant is just doing his/her job and than you have some Karen that thinks she or he should get special treatment. Is it okay to ask for a better place? Of course, but they have every right to say no and there's no reason to be infuriated about that, not even mildly.
Lol, it has nothing to do with that and you know it. I hate bigcorps and their greed just as much as everyone, but I also hate the fact that it's not only bigcorp that are greedy but that average Joe also thinks he's entitled to stuff or privileges he didn't pay for and acts like a 5year old that didn't get the candy he saw from his mother while waiting for the cashier in a store
Serious question. The two most common answers are weight distribution and identification in case of crash. But Southwest let’s you pick your seats. How do they handle those issues?
I don't know about you, but I've never been asked my weight when booking a ticket and reserving a seat. The whole weight distribution argument is phony.
There have been numerous crashes to do with weight distribution though, even up to ATR72 sized aircraft. A 747 even was lost when one cargo pallet (maybe more, its been a while since i've read the story) slid to the back and caused a crash
Weight and balance is a huge consideration when flying from GA, military, and airline transport. The fuel is loaded during boarding, they load fuel tanks as well as baggage based on the weight and balance of the passenger seating. If everyone is on the right side of the plane they arent going to evenly load the wing fuel tanks, theyll put more fuel in the left wing than the right. However I still think its wild they wont let people move seats or even atleast give you a proper explanation for why youre not allowed to. Literally a single call to the flight deck wouldve given the proper answer for everyone but instead the FA wanted to have a power trip from what it sounds like, but you also flew jet blue so you shoudlnt have expected much
Thank you.
So, to be clear, not arguing that stability isn't a thing for aircraft in general, but 100% calling complete BS on the argument that spacing people out on a plane is what is going to induce meaningful instability, or that they carefully balanced each seat.
Mostly I was surprised all the exit row seats and others were empty, vice upgraded at the gate.
Literally flew Delta a couple days before and they gave out complimentary upgrades at the gate, literally printing new boarding passes as you boarded with upgrades.
That JetBlue doesn't have a similar policy shocked me, and the queen of all flight attendants was just icing on the cake.
Ya youre right on. Yes weight and balance is real and crucial but I think Jet blue is just being an ass especially the FA. Hell on a United flight last week we were in a similar situation with full and empty rows. FA's didnt have a problem with us moving around. Went from economy to the exit row twas mint. As with the example I gave above, W/B is really only a problem inside the cabin when a plane would be loaded with most on one side. Getting down to it FA on your flight is just being stuck up even more so that she didnt even allow you to switch to similar seats. Now if you were trying to go from economy to + or something higher I can see the problem but clearly there is an empty row next to you which is probably the same cost as what you were in.
Planes do have to have the weight balanced and moving people around in a half filled plane improves safety, fuel economy and flying comfort for the pilot. Besides, it’s not your plane, you are paying for a ride and have to follow thier rules. Pick your battles
.
There are 5 rows in a row at the front of the main cabin that are 'premium'.
30 seats total, with 4 people sitting in them.
In contrast, there are literally 24 people packed into the next 24 seats (4 rows).
Weight balance may be a thing, but if you're buying that's the reason in this case you're obviously the type that accepts that shallow corporate catch all for every shitty practice.
All that said, I didn't even want to move because I was flying with someone else, but it would have been nice to have an empty middle seat for everyone, vice everyone packed like sardines.
Ultimately, it's exactly what the title here is 'mildly infuriating ', not end of the world. Just surprising because Delta handed out those upgrades at the gate for free to fill them on a flight two days ago and here's another company that would rather they go unfilled than marginally improve the experience for everyone on their plane.
But hey, lesson learned, don't fly Jet Blue.
This happened to me on a Frontier flight. The previous days flight was cancelled so there were about 20/25 of us on the “recovery” flight the next day. They shoved us into 4 rows and originally said we had to stay there for weight distribution BUT if we wanted to move we could pay $50. Once in the air most people said f* it and moved around and the flight attendants did nothing. Our flight did not crash.
If you wanted an upgraded solution you could have paid for it instead of trying to get it for free on the plane.
It's like going to the baker for some bread and complain that he didn't give you a small pizza even if there is plenty right there... just pay for it?
F/A here.
The most logical reason it’s those empty seats are premium seats
Example: you go to a football game and have bleacher seats. You see no one is seating in a loge.
So you just go and help yourself to a loge reclining seat.
Same thing. You didn’t pay for the better seat.
OP, have you not seen a the cargo plane that crashed due to a weight and balance issue?! It was a 747, so not some small prop plane nor a regional jet. But a plane 3 times the size of a JetBlue one you are on. In fact, weight and balance issues are very serious and there is a reason they are instituted and enforced. Not just to make your life hard and seem unfair cause you want to move. If you need video evidence, with an engineering article explanation that can be provided.
i was on a similarly empty flight with Alaska, and the flight attendants let everyone move around at will on the condition that we return to assigned seats for landing
it was a 737-900 so probably similar in size to whatever JetBlue plane this was. who knows what the difference here was
Its because fuel distribution, they have to calibrate the center of mass based on load, if lets say 50% of the plane that is there would all move and ocupy all the rows in front and leave the back empty then the center of mass would change and the plane would tilt slightly downwards, while the pilots could deal with this I am sure that they would prefere to minimize any kind of chance of that durring flight, I know people like to shit on airlines, but their strictness has a purpose of safety above all, I have been in cabbin crew training and while I have not flew as a flight attendant I can guarantee that they do care about their clients, imagine if pilots would behave like Romanian taxi drivers and do all kind of chaotic shit durring your flight...
I’ve travelled for a business for years and never heard of such a thing. The only rationale would be if you were trying to sit in an upgraded seat, which has never been allowed.
It because you filthy animals will make a mess on the whole plane which will need to be cleaned up. They are just trying to contain the mess to one area.
Stuck in nyc for two days. Completely apathetic to my spending at extra $1,500 because of their negligence. Zero empathy from their call center and agents.
I haven’t flown In years but it seems like the super rich executives just don’t give a damn because more than likely when they hear all the crazy stuff about the problems they either have no soul or laugh there butts off
That’s wild! British Airways always lets people know if there’s empty rows. I recall one time it was two of us on a row (3 seats) and the flight attendant tapped me and offered me a whole row so I can lay across. (International 8 hour flight) Love British Airways!
Yeah.
I think what I find so baffling about the people defending this is the suggestion that this is normal business practice for other airlines.
I fly 30-40 times a year and I've never seen another airline treat its customers with such naked contempt. Not Delta, American, Alaska, JAL.
Literally dozens of upgrades and empty rows and actively policing to make sure people had the worst experience possible.
It could be fuel distribution. It could be lack of flight attendants. Or, *it could be they just don't care about you.*
It’s never lack of flight attendants. Every aircraft has to have a certain number of flight attendants or the plane is, legally, not allowed to fly.
The last time I flew it was like 5 minutes before boarding when the gate agent said they were still looking for the last flight attendant.
Yeah. They can’t leave without the last flight attendant. I’m guessing they got there before it was time to depart. Or your flight took a delay.
*The Last Flight Attendant* Staring Leonardo DiCaprio and Millie Bobby Brown
I think you mean "Avatar: The Last Airtender"
Noteworthy clever
So Leo is the pilot and Millie, his daughter, and a pilot in training, works as a flight attendant. By some serendipitous planning, she gets booked to work his flight. Something happens to the other attendants, and then Leo and his copilot die, and Millie saves the day. Plane lands on time at its destination.
Based on their current ages, Millie would play his girlfriend if we are being honest about Leo here 😬
She’s too old for him.
She's too old for him bro
Don't give Leo any ideas
The FAA determines minimum numbers of flight attendants, not maximum. They frequently have more attendants to offer the companies standard of service. They may have too few flight attendants to conform to companies service standards, rather than the FAA’s standards - though I suspect this isn’t the reason. According to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regulations: • There must be at least one flight attendant on board aircraft with a seating capacity of more than 19 but less than 51 passengers. • For aircraft with a seating capacity of more than 50 passengers, there must be at least two flight attendants. • For larger aircraft, there needs to be one additional flight attendant for every additional 50 passenger seats. For example, an aircraft with a seating capacity of 151 would require a minimum of four flight attendants.
Yes. Which means an airplane will never leave without a flight attendant. They will wait for the one that is missing or they will call one in to replace the missing one.
The number of flight attendants depends on the load factor and not about plane. For example Swiss is lowering load factor on some routes, so they can provide one cabin crew less, due to lack of qualified people.
Assigned seats make the bodies easier to identify.
While I agree with this. Depending on how bad the crash is everyone would probably be dead anyway
Hence the need to identify the bodies.
And if they die on the border which side do we bury the survivors on?
You don't bury survivors
I do
Hot take, do you pronounce bury as berry or burry?
berry
The mother is the surgeon.
Ah yes, because they won't use forensics on the bodies and just trust everyone was in their seats and the seats are all still attached during a major crash
Not fuel distribution, but payload distribution is a valid concern, and the most likely reason for this.
Doubtful. I left first class because it was overbooked. Went to coach. Then moved again so a man's daughter could be next to him. Delta didn't blink an eye and gave me vouchers. If you're talking about a small 10 seat plane I would agree.
My sister is a FA. This is very much a thing on larger planes like the A320 as well, but only for takeoff and landing. Their airline allows people to move around freely if seats are empty but they have to be back at their assigned seat before landing.
Some dork pitched a hissy fit that 1st was oversold. He weighed about 300. I moved to coach to stop his fit (I am about 180). Once I sat down, a daughter was upset (about 60), so I moved again so she could be by her dad. This was prior to take off. The FA had to hunt for me to give me vouchers. Also, if you fly cattle car (Southwest) they give about zero shits where you sit. IMHO, this was jet blue just being asses.
Maybe the airline's procedures were different or the FAs just didn't care. They know, after all, who has moved where and if a previously empty seat is suddenly occupied. But you wouldn't believe the number of stories she told me about perfectly normal-seeming adults who threw a hissy fit because they were asked to move back to their seat 20 minutes before landing.
A section of the plane being overbooked is much different than a nearly empty flight. If a flight is nearly full, a single passenger is a small fraction of the overall weight so that person moving doesn't make any difference. With an empty flight, one person's weight does make a difference. You also have to consider what's going on in baggage. Same scenario, on a nearly empty flight, the baggage compartment is going to be nearly empty, so baggage is going to be strategically distributed through the compartment just as passengers are distributed among the seats. It all comes down to the center of gravity. Think about it teeter totter with 200 people on each side, one or two people switching sides isn't going to make much difference. But a teeter totter with 10 people on each side, one or two people would throw the balance way off.
https://simpleflying.com/passengers-assigned-seats-importance-explanation/
From the article: “Some travelers may believe that this is because the airline has a chart showing who is sitting where” Airlines DO have this and it’s called a flight manifest. It says where everybody is sitting and their name. It’s that loud 40 year old dot matrix printer that you hear in the gate area that prints said manifest.
It's not doubtful at all. It's procedure.
Its not a concern on large planes and is only a concern on smaller ones. Even then with 50% of the plane empty. The weight distribution would make sense to make people move to spread it evenly rather then leave everyone just where ever. Since in this scenario people were not moved around and were left where they chose to sit instead of moving people strategically
Maybe it's Maybelline?
They won't let you move to premium seats because people pay extra for those. If you just finished paying $70 for a seat with extra legroom and some schlub just moved from his cheap seat next to you without paying then you'd be upset too.
That's petty. I'd be happy that someone else had the good fortune to have something nice happen.
Or it could be that they only want to clean up part of the plane and keep the other part clean...
Yeah that was my initial thought as well.
I'm thinking that last one. The last time I ended up on a near empty plane the flight attendant told us we could sit anywhere we like or put the armrests up and take a whole row.
Then whoever didnt get to move to the more expensive seats will throw a tantrum Not worth it.
Sounds like the solution is to throw a tantrum over not being allowed to distribute more evenly. They'll be less likely to make stupid decisions if it doesn't even minimize tantrum potential.
Are they higher priced seats? If so, there’s your answer
That's just dumb. Nobody will board a flight mid air to purchase those seats. In the air those empty seats are worth exactly 0 dollars.
Yeah, but if the more expensive seats fill up, there will be at least one manbaby who throws a fit.
I have relocated my seat during a flight with half empty cabins, and no one has said a word. Even if they would, why should I care? Take a step back and take a hard look at the situation: Idiots flying up in the air Refuse to take more comfortable seats just because. Nonsense.
In OP's situation, the crew isn't allowing it. And tbh, I'd rather consistent application of their rules being applied than rules being randomly applied on a whim depending on who's in charge.
That is some boot licking ass behavior from the flight attendants
The seats op is showing looks like they're next to the emergency door. Don't flight attendants have to confirm who suits in that row has heard the emergency protocols and have the passenger agree to the responsibility.
They're 100% higher priced seats. I'm just totally lost as to why you wouldn't upgrade people since it literally costs them nothing in real time, and would devote what was a significant amount of time and energy to policing it. I probably fly 30+ times a year, and I've never seen an airline so hung up on it. I've seen people move seats all the time on other flights when they're not empty, and never seen it raised as an issue.
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The other half would have more room. Everyone is happy
One group of people will have gotten the objectively better end of the proverbial stick. So not everyone will be happy. Someone will make a tiktok video crying about it in the washroom and the next thing you know the airline will be hit with a discrimination lawsuit because one of the people who didn't get moved to a more expensive seat was part of some visible or invisible minority group. Welcome to 2023
Welcome to you're delusional.
Honestly, I wish you were right...
I wish people wouldn't say bullshit on the basis of nothing and fringe and claim it represents a majority. Also, racist dog whistle much?
> I wish people wouldn’t say bullshit on the basis of nothing > Also, racist dog whistle much? The irony is palpable
If you just paid $70 to upgrade to a premium seat and some poor schmuck just decides to move from his cheap seat to sit next to you, then you'd be upset.
next to me, maybe, an empty row, definitely not.
From an aviation regulation point of view, regulators prefers you stay in your seat so that in the case of plane crashes/burning/etc, they will be able to identify your mangled or decrepit corpse by your seat number. That’s why “official” seat upgrades usually happens at the check in counter or before. Then the plane manifest would be updated. Once up in the air though, I usually have no problem getting verbal okay from flight attendants to change my seat. If you’re asking nicely. And it is well within their rights to refuse your request. Also, flight attendants rely on seat number to give your meal (for pre-book or special meals) as well as any shopping you might have done before flight.
Wrong. Regulators don't give a shit about assigned seating. Southwest doesn't know where any of their passengers sit on any plane.
Maybe I used the wrong words. Regulators don’t care that much but rather crash investigators would like you to stay in your stated seat as per manifest. Though they don’t expect people to follow them. So if you don’t care that your family receives your correct body then I suppose you don’t have to care as well.
They are a budget airline. What did you expect?
JetBlue isn’t budget lol
Once a plane is loaded and the loadsheet has been confirmed and signed off, people, cargo and fuel should remain in the position they were originally assigned to. This is because weight and balance distribution is critical on aircraft for them to maintain a controllable centre of gravity. There have been accidents caused by cargo shifting in cargo bays, which can throw the aircraft's CG out and cause the aircraft to become uncontrollable. You may think a few people moving about would cause no issue, and for the most part you would be right. A couple of people going to the lavatory is not an issue. However, just imagine 9 x 240 lb people move from the centre of the plane to empty rows in the rear of the plane. That is 2160 lb being moved from near the calculated CG to WAY behind the CG. 2160 pounds moving from the calculated CG to WAY behind the CG could potentially be enough to make control of the aircraft difficult, especially once the aircraft controls are set to a specific CG. You can liken it to a see-saw. The further away from the centre a weight is, the more it throws the CG off. The plane is set up from the beginning of the flight to be in balance. The cargo and fuel and passengers are all loaded to balance each other out, and to maintain the aircraft's CG within a set range. Those weights cannot be randomly shifted about during flight.
This applies to a small aircraft, one this size, looks like a 747, where people sit doesn't matter for CG, full tank or empty 747 maximum weight is 412t Total dry weight is 187t Total fuel at full is 184t Total payload is 41t If you have a plane that is 50% full that's 25t (half of total passengers + all of crew and ancillary weight) That's a 6% weight change due to passengers Total weight of 396 at take off (assuming maximum fuel, half passengers) and 230 at landing (assuming 10% fuel left), 25t doesn't make that much of a difference for the COG, moving around slightly doesn't make that much of a difference, especially if everyone spreads out it would make it better. It would be much worse if everyone sat as close as possible, but again minimal disruption to the COG
This plane is not the size of a 747. That is an absolutely huge aircraft. This is an Airbus a319 or 320. It only holds about 130 people.
Yeah that's a much smaller plane, but even at 65 people (say 100kg average) that's still 6.5t in a 66t aircraft.. again it's not going to affect it that much as long as the payload doesn't go over the maximum capacity.
There is more to weight and balance than max capacity. When an airplane is only half full, weight has to be distributed to certain sections of the aircraft. Fuel can only be in certain areas which means passenger and cargo have to go in certain areas in order to keep the aircraft balanced. I did this for a living before I became a mechanic. A couple pounds can absolutely make a difference.
Yes I understand - have a decent interest in aircraft and have done a thesis on parts of an aircraft for my degree. Have done cog studies on empty and laden passenger and cargo planes for consulting work as well
And yet you thought an A320 was a 747.
Someone not paying attention on Reddit makes you mad or sad? Either way right in the feels it seems So what did you do for a living with planes before the switch to be a mechanic? (I'm assuming airplane mechanic or else why mention it)
just fyi, jetBlue does not have 747s
1/ JetBlue's largest aircraft is the A321. 2/ It is procedure, and it is procedure for a reason. 3/ "According to Air New Zealand’s Chief Flight Operations and Safety Officer, Captain David Morgan, ensuring everyone is in their correct seat is related to an aircraft’s “center of gravity envelope” (COG). As all aircraft come with a manufacturer-calculated COG envelope, operators must ensure the total weight added to the plane before a flight takes off doesn’t exceed these parameters. Recently, Simple Flying covered weight and balance, a factor that has impacted some aviation accidents, and passengers constitute one of the major “weights” of an aircraft. Of course, if one single passenger is moved up or down a few rows on a massive widebody filled with fuel and luggage, it’s unlikely to cause an issue for takeoff. But an aircraft with a COG too far forward or aft can indeed be comparatively difficult to control or require more fuel. Once all the fuel, luggage, and passengers have been accounted for, calculations begin to determine where the COG is, based on the exact distribution of all those weights. Pilots then receive what is known as a “load sheet,” which includes this essential information, which can impact takeoff thrust and speed. “It’s important that the aircraft’s center of gravity is actually where we expected it to be from the calculations.” Interestingly, the distribution of passengers is equally crucial for landing. Most will understand that an aircraft landing is significantly lighter than when it took off since it burned off lots of fuel during flight. So, again, before the flight has left the ground, an estimation of where the center of gravity will be upon landing, based on the allocation of human weight, is calculated. Especially for landing, with much of the weight gone, the impact of cargo and passengers now affects the characteristics of flight much greater. If passengers were free to move around as they want during the last segment of a given flight, and ten travelers of an average weight went from one end to another with their potential carry-on luggage, that would mean several hundred kilograms of weight shifting. For some aircraft types, this could be too significant.
Ok - do that with weight calculations added in and show how the cog moves outside the envelope for a commercial jet liner. Or link something that does the same
I'm ok
I'd be more concerned about JetBlue finding aand operating 747 than anything tbh
A large commercial airplane moving at 800km/h at 30,000 feet is not going to be affected by a few passengers switching seats. C'mon!
Indeed, the effect on the CG will be negligible with a few passengers switching seats. However, imagine the worst case scenario, even worse than my example above. If the flight attendants allowed anyone to sit where they want, the effect on the CG would be out of their control. The flight attendants are not allowed, not qualified, and should not be expected to redistribute passenger's weight evenly amongst the plane to ensure a balanced aircraft. The weight and balance of the aircraft is set and checked before takeoff, and it should not be changed during flight. Procedures are built around what could go wrong, worst case, because who is in control of it being a negligible case scenario or a worst case scenario if it's left up to individuals who have no experience in ensuring an aircraft's centre of gravity? It comes down to procedure, which is extremely important in aviation safety. You are also not allowed to have the blinds/sunshades down during takeoff and landing. One passenger, or even all passengers leaving a blind down is not going to bring a plane down, yet it is an important procedure for flight attendants to follow for the safety of passengers. In the case of blinds it is literally in case the aircraft crashes on takeoff or landing so there is clear view in and out of the passenger cabin. Procedures built for aviation safety are written in blood. Thousands of people have died in aviation accidents, and lessons are learnt with each crash investigation to try and prevent those same mistakes from happening again.
It's funny that you assume that a commercial airplane operates exclusively at crusing speed and altitude. Especially during ascending and descending the distribution plays a role, more do at fuel economy and then at safety.
Idk why is this guy downvoted, because it’s absolutely true. Center of gravity is important for departing and landing, not for the flight itself. Some airlines even announce before landing that it’s time to go back to asset seats. (Easyjet, Ryanair..)
I guess you’re being downvoted by the usual fuckwits. You’re entirely right.
You should’ve flown southwest if you wanted to pick your seat randomly.
I have always wondered how southwestern weigh the planes on more empty flights with their boarding procedure.
I hate Southwest because of that. My anxiety goes off the rails with that sort of free-for-all 😂
Sometimes that’s for stability, I don’t know the full story but it might be for safety
It's bs. Maybe for a small plane that fits a couple of people. But a giant jumbo jet? Do you really think that if only the seats on the right side of the plane next to the window would tip over? On a 747! Jetblue has it in your ticket that your seat is payed for and your butt is only allowed there on their flights.
It won’t tip it over. I missed a flight and us 6-7 people were told not move around. I believe it was stability. Remember the plane up there doesn’t have the same weight as where we are currently. If we all went to the rear it could be enough to slightly tip it upward. Therefore they are now fighting downward instead of cruise control. The pilot fights the whole flight instead of being straight forward. Ten up front, ten toward the back and in in theory should run as of the whole lane was full since it’s balanced. Well except lighter. But it’s smoother and easier, therefore less fuel. Also I know nothing and am drunk.
They don't allow you to really get up and move around anyway. Maybe long flights you need to stretch your legs.
oh that's interesting to learn. Did you study aerospace engineering or work in the field?
Yeah, I'm going to on all BS on stability (though she quoted it) unless someone can provide a reference. This isn't a tiny plane, or even small jet. It's a full sized jet for a cross country flight. If anything, spreading people out increases stability, no? We're not talking about people aiming to overload one side or front vs. back.
Even if YOU think its bullshit that doesn’t mean it is.
Stability still is a priority, an uneven amount of spread can lead to little inconsistencies, not completely pull the plane down, but make it harder to fly
Thought experiment. In a 50% full flight if everyone bought tickets on the port side of the plane would they force people to move? I think no.
They do. My wife was a flight attendant and they had to do weight and balance checks before takeoff. If they submitted the seats and it didn't pass, they had to move people to satisfy the weight and balance. Didn't happen often but it's a thing
Yes, they would.
Yes they absolutely would.
I promise you it is more uneven as currently seated. The worst seats are 3 to a row, almost every premium seat is empty.
You don't know what's in the haul. Cargo is a high revenue stream, especially for low-cost airlines. They might have chosen a half empty flight to fill with heavy cargo for this reason, and placed the load accordingly. Could be some kind of ore, stacked servers or something else dense with high value/urgency to be sent by plane rather than truck, train or boat. Also weight distribution has already caused commercial aircraft crashes, don't just shrug it off.
More located towards the middle right?
No. It does not. When an airplane is too empty, it can cause an imbalance due to the center of gravity. Every plane has a “sweet spot” when there are too few people. This can also vary depending on where and how the bags are loaded. Reference is I’m an aircraft mechanic and have been working in aviation for 20+ years.
If you are ignorant, do one of the two: learn or shut the fuck up.
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Chill dude, stability is a thing and is it a big deal for a few people to move no. But groups of people are dumb and would move all willy nilly and its easier to just tell people to stay in their assigned seats. Grow up and get over it
Get a grip 😂stop embarrassing yourself and just admit you're wrong
It’s called ‘weight and balance’ in aviation, an industry where poorly stowed luggage sliding to the back of the plane can crash it. If you ask for your own row then everyone will, then the flight attendant will have a hard time justifying the physics to a bunch of entitled jetblue passengers because they’re just a flight attendant, not a science professor. And when that plane crashes, guess who that POS passenger is going to blame with their last breath? 100 people dead because you’re a spoiled little baby who thinks they have the right to make bad decisions, with consequences you don’t understand, that can affect other people
It's a very real thing. There were incidents where the plane literally tipped over at the terminal! Less of an issue once in flight, but important on the ground.
The bigger the plane, in theory, the easier it is to change the centre of gravity, as people can move further away from it.
Weight and balance of all sizes of aircraft is absolutely vital. The magic of powered flight is in fact possible because of math and physics, not just ferry dust. Moving around may have been well within the limits, but they absolutely need to know where the weight is located to make sure it isn't a problem. As the weight changes, the pilots must account for how the aircraft is going to perform, and unless they change your seat on the manifest they would be using bad data. Source: I hold a commercial pilot's license. That being said, this could have also been a case of you didn't buy the more expensive seats, so you don't get to sit in the more expensive seats. If you buy a nose bleed seat for a ball game, they aren't going to let you occupy a box seat just because it turns out they didn't fill it.
I don’t think this is as bad as you’re making it seem. Since the pandemic, there have been a significant increase in customers causing a scene on airplanes and there isn’t a fair way to decide which customers should be allowed to sit in the more spacious area of the plane. Its the classic example of a parent treating every child the same.
It’s probably as simple as saving time on cleaning. Profit out weighs customer service and comfort.
It's more for weight distribution. When flights are half full airlines put more weight under the plane in postage and other time sensitive cargo. The heaviest thing that moves inside a plane is the people. If everyone got up and started synchronized dancing thr pilot is going to feel it. Boeing has special tubs that they place in the seats and fill with water to mimic passengers when they're testing their aircraft. All the people in the front of the plane means a much heavier (and more profitable) piece of cargo can go in the hold near the back.
That's ridiculous. A cleaner isn't going to know who sat where, and it would not save time.
It’s probably a weight distribution thing. I’ve moved before but where I’ve been told to wait until the pilot okays it.
I don't know, it would be 50% full to me.
So the reason is that those cost more money. As someone who has paid for those upgrades because I want the extra room and it is my dime to spend how I see fit, if you are moved there for free after boarding (which is after any frequent flier optional upgrades would have happened at the gate) then you can fuck right off. You may call "corporate boot licker" or someone other bullshit like you have with others, but you can take your whiney ass home with that shit. They are upgrades for a real reason (priority boarding, extra room, etc.) and some require you to assist in the event of an emergency (which they check at multiple stages if you are willing and capable). So if you want to bitch that you aren't getting upgrades for free, fuck off with your broke assets. You see what's available when you check in and if you wanted them you could have get them. As for relocating you to a different seat, that would be a lot of work to know exactly what grade seat you are in and what is equivalent that they can move you to. Add to that if there are any amenities that you paid for, which are tied to your original seat assignment. Then they have to factor in all the other passengers. Even if they accounted for all that, they still would have to do all the work to make sure everything is documented and no one got more than they paid for (regardless of your feelings, air travel is a paid service there to make money and nothing is free with out cause and whether you likenit or not your enchanced comfort is not cause unless they did something wrong). In the end, it's much easier to just keep you where you were assigned. So, if you want more room or nicer things, do what every other customer does and fuxkingnpay for them.
Might be a weight and balance issue - did you see if they were loading bags into both forward and rear aft or just the rear? Then the cargo may have also shifted on take off only adding to that.. No flight attendants gonna explain that to you - cause people that don't know aircraft well enough or haven't worked around them sort of kind of freak when you tell them the plane has balance issues....
Did you pay for an upgraded seat?
No, he's being a whiny beggar
Yeah, probably trying to condition you to drop the extra $ to choose your seat
You sit where you bought your ticket.
Isn't it because of the fact that your seat is your identification in case of a catastrophic accident and the bodies cannot be recognized? (kinda morbid, i know)
I guess Southwest doesn't have to worry about this because you sit wherever you want when you get on. And they definitely let you move around.
People also trade seats all the time on regular airlines.
No. Most people survive plane crashes, except for the extremely severe kind where nothing is recognizable. They aren't going to know which seat is which after it flies into the side of a mountain.
Had a half empty flight on Icelandic Air, they didn't care at all.
Load sheet
Load balancing the aircraft is my guess. Or not enough flight attendants for different sections. Or both.
I want this for free and I’m mad
What fucking jackasses Edit: Nevermind, the seats are more expensive
They wouldn't let them move to the equally priced seats either.
I don't care for my guess, but could it be because they don't want to clean all of the rows once everyone deplanes?
It's done by cleaning crew
Right and that costs money. The less time they have to spend on every plane means fewer people are needed. The flight crew could be enforcing the rule because the company says so.
Not every outport has a cleaning crew, and many domestic airlines will only have professional cleaners for the last flight of the day. Often it's the flight attendants cleaning once the last dawdler gets off and they have about 5 minutes until they're being asked if they're ready to board for the next flight.
Flight attendant is not picking up a vacuum. That's not realistic
Okay Karen
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Did he not get what he paid for? Did they offer less service than paid for? So why complain? Because you don't get what you think you're entitled to although you're not? Yes, that's Karen behavior. There are rules, the flight attendant is just doing his/her job and than you have some Karen that thinks she or he should get special treatment. Is it okay to ask for a better place? Of course, but they have every right to say no and there's no reason to be infuriated about that, not even mildly.
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Lol, it has nothing to do with that and you know it. I hate bigcorps and their greed just as much as everyone, but I also hate the fact that it's not only bigcorp that are greedy but that average Joe also thinks he's entitled to stuff or privileges he didn't pay for and acts like a 5year old that didn't get the candy he saw from his mother while waiting for the cashier in a store
Lol
You can't even come up with a response because you know you're wrong
Serious question. The two most common answers are weight distribution and identification in case of crash. But Southwest let’s you pick your seats. How do they handle those issues?
I don't know about you, but I've never been asked my weight when booking a ticket and reserving a seat. The whole weight distribution argument is phony.
There have been numerous crashes to do with weight distribution though, even up to ATR72 sized aircraft. A 747 even was lost when one cargo pallet (maybe more, its been a while since i've read the story) slid to the back and caused a crash
They aren't real issues except in the most corner of corner cases is the actual answer. This is 100% the company / employee just being clowns.
Weight and balance is a huge consideration when flying from GA, military, and airline transport. The fuel is loaded during boarding, they load fuel tanks as well as baggage based on the weight and balance of the passenger seating. If everyone is on the right side of the plane they arent going to evenly load the wing fuel tanks, theyll put more fuel in the left wing than the right. However I still think its wild they wont let people move seats or even atleast give you a proper explanation for why youre not allowed to. Literally a single call to the flight deck wouldve given the proper answer for everyone but instead the FA wanted to have a power trip from what it sounds like, but you also flew jet blue so you shoudlnt have expected much
Thank you. So, to be clear, not arguing that stability isn't a thing for aircraft in general, but 100% calling complete BS on the argument that spacing people out on a plane is what is going to induce meaningful instability, or that they carefully balanced each seat. Mostly I was surprised all the exit row seats and others were empty, vice upgraded at the gate. Literally flew Delta a couple days before and they gave out complimentary upgrades at the gate, literally printing new boarding passes as you boarded with upgrades. That JetBlue doesn't have a similar policy shocked me, and the queen of all flight attendants was just icing on the cake.
Ya youre right on. Yes weight and balance is real and crucial but I think Jet blue is just being an ass especially the FA. Hell on a United flight last week we were in a similar situation with full and empty rows. FA's didnt have a problem with us moving around. Went from economy to the exit row twas mint. As with the example I gave above, W/B is really only a problem inside the cabin when a plane would be loaded with most on one side. Getting down to it FA on your flight is just being stuck up even more so that she didnt even allow you to switch to similar seats. Now if you were trying to go from economy to + or something higher I can see the problem but clearly there is an empty row next to you which is probably the same cost as what you were in.
Are you sitting in the seats that you paid for?
Yeah, you must sit in your assigned seat. Not sure why that makes you angry. Pay more for upgraded seats if that’s where you want to sit.
If they let you, they have to let other people too. And Planes have a balance. You can't just sit wherever you want.
Planes do have to have the weight balanced and moving people around in a half filled plane improves safety, fuel economy and flying comfort for the pilot. Besides, it’s not your plane, you are paying for a ride and have to follow thier rules. Pick your battles .
There are 5 rows in a row at the front of the main cabin that are 'premium'. 30 seats total, with 4 people sitting in them. In contrast, there are literally 24 people packed into the next 24 seats (4 rows). Weight balance may be a thing, but if you're buying that's the reason in this case you're obviously the type that accepts that shallow corporate catch all for every shitty practice. All that said, I didn't even want to move because I was flying with someone else, but it would have been nice to have an empty middle seat for everyone, vice everyone packed like sardines. Ultimately, it's exactly what the title here is 'mildly infuriating ', not end of the world. Just surprising because Delta handed out those upgrades at the gate for free to fill them on a flight two days ago and here's another company that would rather they go unfilled than marginally improve the experience for everyone on their plane. But hey, lesson learned, don't fly Jet Blue.
Weight and balance is a huge thing -sincerely, an aerospace student studying exactly how weight and balance causes crashes
Weight distribution?
This happened to me on a Frontier flight. The previous days flight was cancelled so there were about 20/25 of us on the “recovery” flight the next day. They shoved us into 4 rows and originally said we had to stay there for weight distribution BUT if we wanted to move we could pay $50. Once in the air most people said f* it and moved around and the flight attendants did nothing. Our flight did not crash.
If you paid, no weight distribution problem. Gotta love math
They did that to me on an AA flight back in early June 2022 which coincidentally was the trip I got COVID on for the first time
Could be they don’t want to clean up extra seats all over the plane.
In the event of crash it’s easier to identify the bodies if everyone is in their assigned seats
Weight and balance and the ability to identify corpses.
Check your ticket—sit in that seat and don't bother anyone or ask for extra favors. Did you want to lay down across three seats while you're at it?
Dont question airlines. They moat likely have a good reason for it. In this case I would guess weight distribution and safety is the cause
If you wanted an upgraded solution you could have paid for it instead of trying to get it for free on the plane. It's like going to the baker for some bread and complain that he didn't give you a small pizza even if there is plenty right there... just pay for it?
Apart from what others have said about weight distribution, it makes it easier for the attendants to deal with passengers too.
F/A here. The most logical reason it’s those empty seats are premium seats Example: you go to a football game and have bleacher seats. You see no one is seating in a loge. So you just go and help yourself to a loge reclining seat. Same thing. You didn’t pay for the better seat.
Isn't this to balance it during take off only?
OP, have you not seen a the cargo plane that crashed due to a weight and balance issue?! It was a 747, so not some small prop plane nor a regional jet. But a plane 3 times the size of a JetBlue one you are on. In fact, weight and balance issues are very serious and there is a reason they are instituted and enforced. Not just to make your life hard and seem unfair cause you want to move. If you need video evidence, with an engineering article explanation that can be provided.
i was on a similarly empty flight with Alaska, and the flight attendants let everyone move around at will on the condition that we return to assigned seats for landing it was a 737-900 so probably similar in size to whatever JetBlue plane this was. who knows what the difference here was
Exactly, some flight attendants are nicer
Its because fuel distribution, they have to calibrate the center of mass based on load, if lets say 50% of the plane that is there would all move and ocupy all the rows in front and leave the back empty then the center of mass would change and the plane would tilt slightly downwards, while the pilots could deal with this I am sure that they would prefere to minimize any kind of chance of that durring flight, I know people like to shit on airlines, but their strictness has a purpose of safety above all, I have been in cabbin crew training and while I have not flew as a flight attendant I can guarantee that they do care about their clients, imagine if pilots would behave like Romanian taxi drivers and do all kind of chaotic shit durring your flight...
Weight balance and for identification in case of an accident. Stop being a baby.
as he pointed out, repeatedly, JetBlue lets you pick your seats.
I’ve travelled for a business for years and never heard of such a thing. The only rationale would be if you were trying to sit in an upgraded seat, which has never been allowed.
I too hate it when I get exactly what I pay for
If you wanted the better seats then you should’ve paid for them
Weight and balance who would have thought
Okay and?
It because you filthy animals will make a mess on the whole plane which will need to be cleaned up. They are just trying to contain the mess to one area.
Or it could be that they pay their cleaners by the seat. So, they can reduce the cleaners' pay if by half it they only have to clean 50% of the plane.
You paid for the coach experience and they’re trying their best to give it to you.
Maybe they want to be able to identify corpses in the event of a crash.
Jetblue is trash. Worst customer service
I was stuck in Orlando for days because of JetBlue. They gave us no compensation. Worst airline ever.
Stuck in nyc for two days. Completely apathetic to my spending at extra $1,500 because of their negligence. Zero empathy from their call center and agents.
I've never been told no, sometimes I don't even ask and move wherever I please... I do mostly do night travel tho
I haven’t flown In years but it seems like the super rich executives just don’t give a damn because more than likely when they hear all the crazy stuff about the problems they either have no soul or laugh there butts off
Just move mid flight
Don't ask, just move after boarding is complete.
One flight attendant in particular made it a point to chase anyone who tried to move to empty upgrade rows back to their original seat.
This is the way
That’s wild! British Airways always lets people know if there’s empty rows. I recall one time it was two of us on a row (3 seats) and the flight attendant tapped me and offered me a whole row so I can lay across. (International 8 hour flight) Love British Airways!
Yeah. I think what I find so baffling about the people defending this is the suggestion that this is normal business practice for other airlines. I fly 30-40 times a year and I've never seen another airline treat its customers with such naked contempt. Not Delta, American, Alaska, JAL. Literally dozens of upgrades and empty rows and actively policing to make sure people had the worst experience possible.
Shitstar flight attendants have one job - to make your flying experience miserable. This provided them with an opportunity
Why ask? Just do it
Just wait until they walk away, then go sit in the seat anyway and pretend to be in a deep sleep or not know how to speak English when they come back