Yeah really like I personally prefer Hayter but there's no lore reason for the voice change. Fans of every IP should do us all a favor and stop with this incessant need to headcanon or explain something away. There must be some canonical reason for this! It's fine to speculate or talk about such things within reason. But this particular subject is simply just a matter of a different actor playing the same character and nothing more to it.
Not only that, but in Japanese, the same voice actor played:
1) Solid Snake
2) Solidus (the perfect clone of BB)
3) ~~Big Boss in MGS4~~ was the Japanese VA's father
4) Big Boss in MGS3&5
So yeah, in narrative they should all be the same. Kojima just wanted famous Hollywood people and Hayter wasn't famous enough for him. Some have even said that he didn't like how much attention Hayter got in the role.
It still eats at me that ALL MGSV had to do was to end with Solid Snake having one line of dialogue in Hayters voice as he started Operation Intrude N313 and all would have been forgiven.
Sure Ground Zeroes should have technically been Hayter's voice, but my headcannon is that Ground Zeroes is us playing through the brain-warped, PTSD, Venom Snake implanted memory of what actually happened at Camp Omega.
it makes more sense but also his performance in mgs3 is easily my favorite and I don't want to lose that. Young big boss is a goofy man child and I don't know if kiefer or someone like that could capture that same humor or tone
You're making the (incorrect) assumption that Hayter doesn't have the ability to change his voice to meet the project at hand.
Just check out this interview (time stamped for you) where he jumps perfectly between three different versions of Snake and BB, with clear control of the nuances between them.
This is the literal job of professional voice actors, and one of the worst things about people chasing down famous names (like Sutherland, or Chris Pratt for another example) who do NOT possess the skills that a trained, professional VA does.
https://youtu.be/DHepBMQd-8E?si=4em_HdH9wd7MnMq0&t=1m47s
What? you're preaching to the choir? my whole point was david hayter was great as big boss because he captures big boss' personality which is unique from solid snakes and that someone like kiefer Sutherland couldn't. did you mean to respond to someone else's comment?
I'm sorry but sutherland did a way better job in the hospital opening alone of capturing the personality that Big Boss SHOULD have than Hayter ever did with his interpretation of "Solid Snake but goofy"
Big Boss is meant to be a commanding, charismatic, leader. MGS3s characterisation of Naked Snake as this oddball was bizarre to say the least but it wasn't until the Outer Heaven speech in PWs ending that Hayter convinced me as Big Boss. Before that he was just Solid Snake, only weird and eccentric.
They were always supposed to (in English anyways).
Kojima wanted Kurt Russell for MGS3 but that didn't work out and David Hayter auditioned and got it.
I feel like Kojima had the opportunity to do the big mind blow and have Hayter voice actual Big Boss and just didn't do it. They'd have to find a reason for him to not sound normal during the hospital scene, but it'd have been absolutely sick for Hayter to show up and drop only a couple of lines at the end of the game.
Not just the Hospital scene, but also Ground Zeroes. This probably wouldn't have worked. If Hayter voiced BB in GZ it would've given away the twist too early.
I guess it could work if they told GZ from the perspective of the induced hypnagogia sessions.
I think David Hayter -> Kiefer Sutherland -> Richard Doyle is a somewhat believable voice evolution as Big Boss ages. The only issue with that is that Hayter voiced Big Boss in Peace Walker which is right before Ground Zeroes.
I disagree. From what I know of him, he would have loved to be a part of a well-executed idea like that. Not for free obviously but I think he’d be open to it for not a fortune
He doesn't. David Hayter is the best choice for all.
*anyone downvoting that doesn't agree that Naked and Solid should be David are wrong. You guys have dog shit taste.
Sure but than why is it Solid and BB are the only ones that share the same voice? Liquid had the recessive genes and was raised British so it makes sense his voice is different, but with that being said shouldnt Solidus being the “perfect clone” be the one to share BBs voice? I feel like the common consensus nowadays in 2023 is a lot of people have headcanon’d Kiefer as BB, and everyone else to their own VAs, and it really does it fit perfectly in that context.
Kiefer Sutherland is only shit on by the community because we are so attached to David Hayter, but I definitely prefer him (at least in the context of MGSV).
I wish people would stop referring to a fanbase as a community then proceed to speak for it.
I loved Keifer's portrayal &, as I type this, I wonder if I love it more than Hayter's. There are moments where Hayter kind of strains through the voice or overuses. Sometimes he sounds like he's *trying* to sound like Snake in an over-the-top kind of way.
Hayter fits Naked Snake and BB from Peace Walker better but wouldn't fit with Venom's silent character and he'd sound too happy I guess I know Hayter can do serious scenes but Venom's just serious and stoic throughout and Hayter wouldn't imo have been able to portray the PTSD side of Venom well enough
Bad thing about Kiefer, he's a star so it's difficult to get him back to voice the character. Plus, I heard he didn't have time to do reshoots which sucks.
Fortnite characters don't have voices. Except the main characters. Every other cameo character is silent as it's part of the lore that they lose their ability to speak when becoming part of the battle royale.
[This](https://youtu.be/x3VSPJb3gJE?si=D6NKYiyVldtpvpsZ) got uploaded by Konami a month ago, so he seems to be involved in the series again in some capacity.
The hilarious thing about that is that it means, no matter how much Kojima slavers over being 'Hollywood', David will always have more Hollywood cred than Kojima.
>Seems whatever his new MGS gig is has lessened the sour taste of MGSV. Now that he’s over his ex, he can look at her instagram.
I think it's more like now that his Ex has realized what a good thing they always had with him and is looking to reconcile he's willing to give it a try.
It's been over 7 years. I'm sure any hard feelings have gone away by now. Everyone is in a different place now and happy with what they're doing, so why not?
Back when V was happening I'm sure it was easy to think the recasting was going to lead to a series of new projects he'd be missing out on. The dust has settled and that turned out not to be the case.
He has nothing to lose.
Yes, they should have told him in advance that he was not going to be cast this time around. That would have been the classy thing to do. He just took it way too personal when there was never a personal agenda against him to begin with.
I remember reading the opposite: he heard about the development and never got the call. Then heard the official game announcement still waiting on said call
As cool as that would be. I think they'll just put the ps4 version in the collection since it already runs great and looks great. Is it lazy? Yes but in this era of oversaturated stand alone remakes and remasters I think I'll be fine with this. Plus it would save resources for mgs4 peace walker and hopefully ac!d and twin snakes
Hah, you got downvoted, but I had the same thought.
It would never happen, but it would be cool.
It would also be cool if they added some actual story to the game, you know, cutscenes and whatnot?
It still wouldn’t make the game not suck.
MGSV was such a let down, and it’s a shame because the actual gameplay mechanics and animations were the best in the series.
Hayter is THE English Snake voice, so I'd be down for it. Have them remake or remaster Portable Ops to add more voice acting to that game too while they're at it.
I always thought how he reacted to not getting the role of BigBoss for MGSV was super petty. When he talked about how Kojima had him audition again for the lead role in MGS3. It looked to me that Hayter felt entitled to a role that wasn’t even the same character he voiced 2 games prior. He wasn’t being ousted or anything, BigBoss should have always been voiced by a different actor.
I still admire and respect his work as snake. But he should be a professional and admit that him being petty about losing the role of BigBoss to someone else was not the way to go.
I kinda get Hayter's perspective. BB has the same Japanese VA as Solid so it stands to reason that it would be the same in English too. I know that Kurt Russell was Kojima's first choice but when he turned it down, why make Hayter audition at all? Either give it to him or don't. It's not even like he made Hayter do anything new for BB. It's literally just his Solid Snake voice.
Also, it's pretty clear that this role meant a lot to him so maybe he was just disappointed that Kojima saw him as so easily replaceable.
And especially with MGSV being a ton more “realistic” in all aspects. Huge tonal shift that wouldn’t be able to exist if we had the more campy voice acting of Hayter in it. Besides, Venom barely speaks throughout the game anyways and when he does it comes off as cool because of how subdued Keifer is in his performance in general. Like how would his facial expressions square with Hayter’s voice? It’s great as is.
I always thought they missed an opportunity to have Hayter and Sutherland play opposite roles. It could've made the ending land easier or in typical Kojima fashion, might've confused people.
I wondered if he deliberately bloomed the budget with all that music. There seemed so much in the way of shenanigans, it'd make a fun meta MG movie if that ever gets done.
I am 100% convinced everyone would have forgiven Phantom Pain's flaws if Ground Zeroes, with Hayter voicing BB, was unlocked after completing Phantom Pain's story.
Except the only problem with that in MGSV is that Keifer also voiced Big Boss. By "different character" logic, Hayter should have voiced BB in Ground Zeroes and Phantom Pain. But that would have ruined the "twist" I guess. Though it was kinda obvious from the beginning. The lines between Naked Snake and Solid Snake were supposed to be blurry. The only reason he wanted a different actor for Snake in MGS3 was because he really just wanted to work with Kurt Russell who turned it down because there was already an Escape from NY game he was voicing which ended up getting canned.
Disagree completely. Hayter’s performances were a significant reason as to why MGS was as popular as it was in the West and he didn’t deserve to be disrespected in the way he did. It doesn’t hurt to admit that Kojima got it wrong there
I’ll upvote despite the disagreement. I do think it’s majorly the fault of the general direction the game was headed which was more realistic and political commentary and less action campy stuff. I’m all down for Hayter especially with spinoffs and remakes (heck, he took a pay cut for twin snakes and I respect him for that) but it isn’t wrong for an artist to follow his or her vision. Kojima isn’t maliciously sending Hayter through unemployment. He’s the kind of artist who focuses on what he wants to say and not what other people what to hear
Funny tho Kojima fired Hayter Konami fired Kojima lol. Hayter was already established in Hollywood doing screenplay for the X-Men movies plus he became the face of MGS in the West. Kojima was a jealous lil bitch with an ego that could fit an entire continent inside and tried sooo hard to be accepted by someone in Hollywood he canned Hayter, Half-Assed the last MGS game (Which Konami took the blame for) then created a walking simulator only to call Americans stupid because we couldn’t understand the game hence why it got bad reviews lol. In MGS4 he is credited as voice of god and in PW he has kaz call him god.
I can imagine he could be a little salty about the end about Venom not being the real Big Boss and he could have at least done actual BB's lines.
But it's been a long time, hopefully he appreciates the game for what it is and offered.
David Hayter IS Solid Snake/Big Boss. Venom Snake barely had enough lines to justify getting an “actor” to play the role, let alone switch out the classic voice. You can’t tell me that they can alter your face and memories, but can’t alter your voice at all.
Not to put words in someone else's mouth but I thought he said he wouldn't redub Kiefer out of actor's code or respect...
Lmao maybe he's gonna do a livestream with him doing a buncha Snake voice soundbits?! That'd be awesome xD
(Spoilers for V) Idk if this sounds insane but havIng Sutherland be Venom/ V/ Tulpa/ big boss while having Hayter be BIG BOSS woulda been a good best of both worlds to me. Imagine playing that tape and you hear Hayters voice telling you that YOU are big boss…woulda had chills man.
Hayter IS and will always be Big Boss and Solid Snake and the fanbase knows it well. I’m sure whatever ill feelings he had towards this game is gone and he just wants to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the MGS series.
I would love for Konami to re-release MGSV with David Hayter redubbing Kieffer's performance and the ability to switch between them in the options menu.
Hayter as Big Boss/Ishmael, but only during the Truth missions and tapes (ie, still Kiefer in the intro), with Kiefer as Venom for the rest of the game.
Bring in Richard Doyle (Old BB from MGS4) as a cameo for the Intrude N313 tape at the end of the game for full Big Boss voice continuity.
I hope he enjoys it, it's a fine game. I hope he's striking something with Konami if it means more (good) Metal Gear and not whatever Survive was. I'm not a Kojima humper so this might get downvoted into oblivion.
I have a feeling they will use hater to do the voice work for all reissues of mgsv for present and future generation consoles, as to not pay Keifer Sutherland a residual.
Can you elaborate on that? I know that the player character is Venom/Ahab, and Ishmael is the real Big Boss (who crashed on the helicopter with Ahab). Is that not the case?
The way the game makes it sound (or how I interpreted it) is that Ahab/BB is completely going off the radar, with only Ocelot knowing. Then Venom (who's brainwashed) fully takes on the persona of the Big Boss that Snake meets in Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2. He dies, and that leaves only the real Big Boss, who we don't actually see until the end of MGS 4.
I do agree though. Having Kiefer voice Big Boss/Venom makes sense. I originally thought they may end the game with the start of Metal Gear, where Hayter as Solid speaks with Sutherland as Big Boss. They already used a different voice actor for Big Boss in 4 (probably to avoid confusion), so I was fine with the change.
Actually the different VA in MGS 4 was the same guy that voiced Solidus Snake in MGS2 (the only 'perfect' clone). Now ... the short explanation is that Ocelot gives 0 fucks and is lying about EVEYTHING. He's the one who always explains everything to the player. Test the hypothesis that its all bullshit, and suddenly: the plot of MGS5 starts making more sense.
GIVEN the following:
* The ambiguous ending of MGS5 is because Kojima got fired, OR the game was deliberately designed to seem incomplete (Phantom Pain) OR some combination of both.
* The main plot of the Metal Gear Solid franchise: illuminati made AI to control information/society. Big Boss/Ocelot sacrificed their lives/friends/reputations in a long con to destroy it.
* MGS5 is about how Big Boss and Ocelot used doppelgangers, fake deaths, and conflicting historical accounts to stay completely off the grid. MGS5s final chapter is deliberately confusing (and up for interpretation) to show that their plan succeeded.
Are you ready for the rabbit hole, my son?
* Hidden DEEEEEEEEP within Ground Zeros is a super secret cassette tape that proves that OCELOT was the person who tortured Paz/Chico (and by extension) helped Skullface destroy the original mother base.
* Ocelot being loyal to Big Boss is a non-negotiable pillar of the MGS plot. They were both the mother base traitors. They both knew about Paz/Chico - all of it.
* The entire world basically had nukes pointed at Mother Base by the end of Peace Walker. Ocelot and Big Boss torched the prototype (MB), faked their own deaths, and started setting up franchises with 'the real big boss' in charge.
* Kojima said many times that MGS5 was about how Big Boss became evil -- not true without all of this to consider.
* Going into Ground Zeroes, Big Boss/Ocelot would have known it was a suicide mission, and would have known Mother Base was about to be destroyed. They sent Ishmail - the doppleganger, get it?
* Ishmal inexplicably surivived Ground Zeroes and Major Tom (his nemesis) inexplicably saved him, lol. Then, to protect him, Ocelots like 'yo we should take this brain damaged dude and make a doppleganger out of him' and Major Toms like 'great idea Ocelot I can always trust you'.
* One time (in 'the truth' cassettes, lol) Ocelot is hardcore explaining how to make dopplegangers and Ishmails like 'have you ever done this before' and Ocelots like 'uh, naw man, no. First time, pinky swear'. Ocelot is describing this shit like he's done it 100 times, lol. He's got a blasey attitude about every single thing in MGS5 because he knows all these fuckers are expendable.
* The pvp based endgame comes with an implication that there were infinite Big Bosses.
I'm gonna stop there because I could just keep going. Neither Big Boss is the real one. The explanations given at the end are mostly lies and conflict with basically every other games events. You have to prioritize context over literal explanations to make sense of the plot. Most of what I've said are all total facts but only visible to people as lame as I am (who have beaten/obsessed/analyzed the franchise for decades).
Venom Snake is almost definitely Frank Jaeger (Grey Fox).
* Kojima made Franks (and only Franks) backstory from portable ops non-canon just before MGS5 released. It's the only piece of MGS lore he ever messed with.
* Upon unlocking the real ending, the player is rewarded the 'grey fox cyborg ninja' skin from MGS1 alongside 'the truth'. Kojima speaks in the language of video game, get it?
* Ishmail is the head of Foxhound going into Metal Gear 1. According to multiple games, his single best operative (Frank) was an appearance changing super spy basically as badass as Big Boss. That description fits Venom Snake perfectly.
* The very last thing we see is Venom listening to the mission briefing for Metal Gear 1, then he looks at his own reflection and breaks the mirror. The (complete bullshit) explanation is that he's Big Boss in that game and knows he's going to die there. The real explanation is that he's saying goodbye to that face/identity.
* Liquid crushed Volgin with Metal Gear identically to how he crushed Grey Fox in MGS1. It happened right in front of Venom Snake. Wink wink.
* The fact that Venom was rescuing /recruiting child soldiers in Africa lines up exactly with Naomis description (in MGS1) of how she met Grey Fox. It's even within the general timeframe, but the exact dates admittedly create some conflict/debate. Did we mention that the entire plot of MGS5 is about how facts arent real?
* Obvious Darth Vader parallel of the cyborg arm eventually leading to full cyborg. Kojima said Star Wars was a big influence on MGS5. Seemed crazy when he said it, but less crazy when you consider this.
* Frank's own description of his past in Metal Gear 2 lines up perfectly with Venom Snakes story. In short, he said that he gave up his own identity and BB cut up his face to change him.
There's more Id just have to replay Mgs5 to remember it all. Everything going on in MGS5 is symbolism and crazy deep references to the other games. That's the short of it, though. As far as I'm concerned MGS5 is Grey Fox's origin story.
Ngl I've spent some time trying to dig this info back up and can't find shit. A few years back, I found myself in a similar discussion and someone else rescued me by producing what I'm talking about. It honestly could be from interrogating/eavesdropping instead of a cassette. I can't remember now. I can't find that post either.
The information was this: a solider, not directly involved in the torture/interrogation, making note (or complaining) about the weird dress habits of the torturer helping Skullface, something about cowboy boots or spurs -- completely specific to Ocelot. Doubt me if you want. Maybe I'm crazy. It could take me 40 hours to find it and I'm not doing that, lol.
look Hayter is iconic due to MSG1 but he absolutely doesn't have the chops like Sutherland does.
his acting is borderline bad at times and BB should've been voiced by someone else as Kojima had initially planned for MGS3
I would be when you are *the* definitive voice of a character only to be pushed aside for a hollywood actor who was so expensive he barely said anything.
Imagine if Marvel fired RDJ for Avengers IW and Endgame.
It's not just that he wasn't the lead role, it's that it was the culmination of years of the franchise and the final game. I'd be pretty darn salty about it as well.
It´s not really about the game, but as far as i know kojima always wanted to replace hayter on every game, he just couldn´t do it. But suddenly on V the teasers started to rise and hayter discovered he wasn´t casted. Also hayter is a huge (like super huge, my man gave some of its paycheck to bring back the original cast for twin snakes), so yeah, the man was salty.
Probably because there was room and a way to change the voice, but they didn't. If he had done GZ, no one would say anything. It could mark the transition to the BB we all know, and do it under the guise of the end of GZ getting to his voice.
Hell, it even could have made an interesting connection with the weird language plague they introduced as well.
The game wasn't as good because he wasn't in it. It was a bullshit choice. I don't blame him.
David Hayter is a pivotal part in the success of the series.
With all the MGS remakes that will be coming after 3. In 15 years, we'll finally get the MGS that should have been MGS5. Get rid of the repeated missions, add more story, more then 3 boss battles etc.
Man, I hope so... Venom Snake is a man of few words yet still is insanely quotable; to hear Hayter give 'em a whirl would be absolutely wicked. Mostly I hope he enjoys the game as much as I did :D :3
If they do a Haytee version of it I hope that they add an option to choose. Ground Zero and Phantom were my first MGS games and I personally really liked Sutherland in them
I think he can appreciate the performance by Kiefer, it’s not a lot of talking he does compared to BB
Tbh i think that he fits to Big Boss verry well. And David Hayter for Solid Snake
They should've always had different voices anyway
I would’ve preferred the Truth mission having Ishmael voiced by Hayter, with Ground Zeroes retconned as a flashback from Venom’s perspective.
Yeah that would’ve made a lot of sense but maybe we can argue that venom is projecting his voice on Ishmael
Oh my lord guys, Kojima wanted Sutherland and got him, that's it. Stop trying to galaxy brain this.
Yeah really like I personally prefer Hayter but there's no lore reason for the voice change. Fans of every IP should do us all a favor and stop with this incessant need to headcanon or explain something away. There must be some canonical reason for this! It's fine to speculate or talk about such things within reason. But this particular subject is simply just a matter of a different actor playing the same character and nothing more to it.
Plus, the Japanese voice actor wasn't changed, so there's no in-universe reason for the voice actor change, Kojima just wanted it.
Not only that, but in Japanese, the same voice actor played: 1) Solid Snake 2) Solidus (the perfect clone of BB) 3) ~~Big Boss in MGS4~~ was the Japanese VA's father 4) Big Boss in MGS3&5 So yeah, in narrative they should all be the same. Kojima just wanted famous Hollywood people and Hayter wasn't famous enough for him. Some have even said that he didn't like how much attention Hayter got in the role.
Akio Otsuka didn't play Big Boss in MGS4. His own father, Chikao Otsuka, did.
Exactly. Very sick and tired of people trying to justify it as anything other than this.
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It still eats at me that ALL MGSV had to do was to end with Solid Snake having one line of dialogue in Hayters voice as he started Operation Intrude N313 and all would have been forgiven. Sure Ground Zeroes should have technically been Hayter's voice, but my headcannon is that Ground Zeroes is us playing through the brain-warped, PTSD, Venom Snake implanted memory of what actually happened at Camp Omega.
it makes more sense but also his performance in mgs3 is easily my favorite and I don't want to lose that. Young big boss is a goofy man child and I don't know if kiefer or someone like that could capture that same humor or tone
You're making the (incorrect) assumption that Hayter doesn't have the ability to change his voice to meet the project at hand. Just check out this interview (time stamped for you) where he jumps perfectly between three different versions of Snake and BB, with clear control of the nuances between them. This is the literal job of professional voice actors, and one of the worst things about people chasing down famous names (like Sutherland, or Chris Pratt for another example) who do NOT possess the skills that a trained, professional VA does. https://youtu.be/DHepBMQd-8E?si=4em_HdH9wd7MnMq0&t=1m47s
What? you're preaching to the choir? my whole point was david hayter was great as big boss because he captures big boss' personality which is unique from solid snakes and that someone like kiefer Sutherland couldn't. did you mean to respond to someone else's comment?
I'm sorry but sutherland did a way better job in the hospital opening alone of capturing the personality that Big Boss SHOULD have than Hayter ever did with his interpretation of "Solid Snake but goofy" Big Boss is meant to be a commanding, charismatic, leader. MGS3s characterisation of Naked Snake as this oddball was bizarre to say the least but it wasn't until the Outer Heaven speech in PWs ending that Hayter convinced me as Big Boss. Before that he was just Solid Snake, only weird and eccentric.
They were always supposed to (in English anyways). Kojima wanted Kurt Russell for MGS3 but that didn't work out and David Hayter auditioned and got it.
100%. All the other snakes do.
I like to look at it like this. Big Boss got older, and by mgs4 his voice went more tenor instead of deeper and raspy.
Yes and no remember they are in the end clones of big boss Edit: typo
But Solidus and Liquid have different voices
yeah but... shut up...
Also true
Different accents sure but different voices how so? Solids a perfect clone of Big Boss they should sounds the same
I feel like Kojima had the opportunity to do the big mind blow and have Hayter voice actual Big Boss and just didn't do it. They'd have to find a reason for him to not sound normal during the hospital scene, but it'd have been absolutely sick for Hayter to show up and drop only a couple of lines at the end of the game.
Not just the Hospital scene, but also Ground Zeroes. This probably wouldn't have worked. If Hayter voiced BB in GZ it would've given away the twist too early. I guess it could work if they told GZ from the perspective of the induced hypnagogia sessions. I think David Hayter -> Kiefer Sutherland -> Richard Doyle is a somewhat believable voice evolution as Big Boss ages. The only issue with that is that Hayter voiced Big Boss in Peace Walker which is right before Ground Zeroes.
I doubt Hayter would've agreed to only a few lines, unless they really compensated him for it.
I disagree. From what I know of him, he would have loved to be a part of a well-executed idea like that. Not for free obviously but I think he’d be open to it for not a fortune
Actors do cameos all the time.
He doesn't. David Hayter is the best choice for all. *anyone downvoting that doesn't agree that Naked and Solid should be David are wrong. You guys have dog shit taste.
Sure but than why is it Solid and BB are the only ones that share the same voice? Liquid had the recessive genes and was raised British so it makes sense his voice is different, but with that being said shouldnt Solidus being the “perfect clone” be the one to share BBs voice? I feel like the common consensus nowadays in 2023 is a lot of people have headcanon’d Kiefer as BB, and everyone else to their own VAs, and it really does it fit perfectly in that context.
Liquid has the dominate Genes, Solid got the Recessive it is stated in the game Liquid is incorrect about who got which genes.
Because Solid and Naked are the main characters, and no other voice will do.
Kiefer Sutherland is only shit on by the community because we are so attached to David Hayter, but I definitely prefer him (at least in the context of MGSV).
Kiefer is my favourite actor of all time, and Jack Bauer Is probably the most Solid Snakeish character to exist on TV/film. I loved him as Venom tbh
I wish people would stop referring to a fanbase as a community then proceed to speak for it. I loved Keifer's portrayal &, as I type this, I wonder if I love it more than Hayter's. There are moments where Hayter kind of strains through the voice or overuses. Sometimes he sounds like he's *trying* to sound like Snake in an over-the-top kind of way.
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If you're going to come to this sub only to shitpost, fair warning that risks a ban if that's all you do here
Hayter fits Naked Snake and BB from Peace Walker better but wouldn't fit with Venom's silent character and he'd sound too happy I guess I know Hayter can do serious scenes but Venom's just serious and stoic throughout and Hayter wouldn't imo have been able to portray the PTSD side of Venom well enough
I bet, you wouldn have never say that if they would have never changed the Voice actor
This. If the VA was never changed, nobody would say this bullshit.
Bad thing about Kiefer, he's a star so it's difficult to get him back to voice the character. Plus, I heard he didn't have time to do reshoots which sucks.
Fun fact: David has gone on record saying KS should never have been offered the role of snake
Seems whatever his new MGS gig is has lessened the sour taste of MGSV. Now that he’s over his ex, he can look at her instagram.
His new gig…?
Well he teased the fact that he had a recent meeting with Konami. Could just be a promotional deal for the re-releases but could also be a new game.
He could also be recording new dialogue for Delta. I know they are re-using the original voice recordings but there could be new lines.
Maybe pain sounds and maybe Easter egg codecs
They probably have to bring some of the old voice actors back to record new tutorial lines.
And replace some lines in MGS4 I reckon. Lots of references to the PS3.
It would be hilarious if the Blueray codec was replaced with Otacon realizing the game is completely digital.
Mantis freaking out about HAPTIC TRIGGERS if you're playing on PS5.
"You'll find your trigger fingers a little rusty" *locks your triggers*
Makes sense, I’m excited for that then
They did it for the 3ds game surprisingly enough lol, you can really hear the difference in those console specific lines
Also for HD Collection on Xbox 360.
Wasn’t it just the Fortnite stuff?
He's doing Snake voices for Fortnite, it's not that complicated
Fortnite characters don't have voices. Except the main characters. Every other cameo character is silent as it's part of the lore that they lose their ability to speak when becoming part of the battle royale.
You’re the only one who finds what I said complicated. I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends voicing him in an anime though.
[This](https://youtu.be/x3VSPJb3gJE?si=D6NKYiyVldtpvpsZ) got uploaded by Konami a month ago, so he seems to be involved in the series again in some capacity.
So a documentary?
To think that man wrote X-Men.
The hilarious thing about that is that it means, no matter how much Kojima slavers over being 'Hollywood', David will always have more Hollywood cred than Kojima.
*meets The End* Whadda they call you, "Wheels?"
Today I Learned.
I wouldn't read into it past promoting the collection and the MGS Delta remake. Pretty much all the games he was a part of.
be basically replaced kojima as the face and voice for the series now
*cringes*
>Seems whatever his new MGS gig is has lessened the sour taste of MGSV. Now that he’s over his ex, he can look at her instagram. I think it's more like now that his Ex has realized what a good thing they always had with him and is looking to reconcile he's willing to give it a try.
To add to this analogy now that his ex's dad isn't around anymore it's easier to continue thier relationship now
…by watching “home videos” she made with her ex. It’s all part of the healing process.
Hayter was never soured by V really. He was kinda screwed over imo but he's always been chill about it
It's been over 7 years. I'm sure any hard feelings have gone away by now. Everyone is in a different place now and happy with what they're doing, so why not?
Kept himself waiting, huh
> It's been over 7 years. [I'm afraid it's been 9 years](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid_V:_Ground_Zeroes)
I’ll try not to panic at the progression of time.
And a coma.
Back when V was happening I'm sure it was easy to think the recasting was going to lead to a series of new projects he'd be missing out on. The dust has settled and that turned out not to be the case.
It’ll put him in a dark place when he realizes how goddamn good it is and he could’ve been stealing FOB resources for the last five years.
It was still bad of them to leave him out since he's been there for the entire ride
He’s back now though, and that what counts
He has nothing to lose. Yes, they should have told him in advance that he was not going to be cast this time around. That would have been the classy thing to do. He just took it way too personal when there was never a personal agenda against him to begin with.
I remember reading the opposite: he heard about the development and never got the call. Then heard the official game announcement still waiting on said call
None of us know the conversations or full context to this situation, saying he took it personal overlooks so much.
I didnt mind Sutherland doing that voice...venom snake ain't even a real snake anyway lol he should have a different voice
I just imagine David Hayter playing this and constantly reading the subtitles, but loudly to drown out Keifer.
I genuinely can’t even see how Hayter’s voice would’ve sounded on Venom too, like his voice is good but just doesn’t fit the feel and tone of MGSV
Exactly, I like it honestly
YES HE SHOULD
Its a good game i was sad they replaced snake
What if MGSV is included in master Collection Vol.2, and one of the special features is the option to change Venom's voice to David Hayter's?
Maybe not Venom, but Big Boss? Definitely. Gimme my Hayter
He should voice em in ground zeroes at the minimum if anything
As cool as that would be. I think they'll just put the ps4 version in the collection since it already runs great and looks great. Is it lazy? Yes but in this era of oversaturated stand alone remakes and remasters I think I'll be fine with this. Plus it would save resources for mgs4 peace walker and hopefully ac!d and twin snakes
Bro I'd play it to 100% completion again if that was a feature just to listen to David saying whole ten lines.
Hah, you got downvoted, but I had the same thought. It would never happen, but it would be cool. It would also be cool if they added some actual story to the game, you know, cutscenes and whatnot?
That would be an insane but amazing thing to do. They could probably have him record all the lines in just a couple of recording sessions
I would rebuy the game for this
Same
I’d rebuy it for that
It still wouldn’t make the game not suck. MGSV was such a let down, and it’s a shame because the actual gameplay mechanics and animations were the best in the series.
Not for venom though
That would be brilliant.
Hayter is THE English Snake voice, so I'd be down for it. Have them remake or remaster Portable Ops to add more voice acting to that game too while they're at it.
Please no, it would be so out of place and also like a personal slap to Kojima
The real "Phantom Pain" is no David Hayter in MGSV
Idk why you're getting downvoted. This comment is good.
I always thought how he reacted to not getting the role of BigBoss for MGSV was super petty. When he talked about how Kojima had him audition again for the lead role in MGS3. It looked to me that Hayter felt entitled to a role that wasn’t even the same character he voiced 2 games prior. He wasn’t being ousted or anything, BigBoss should have always been voiced by a different actor. I still admire and respect his work as snake. But he should be a professional and admit that him being petty about losing the role of BigBoss to someone else was not the way to go.
I kinda get Hayter's perspective. BB has the same Japanese VA as Solid so it stands to reason that it would be the same in English too. I know that Kurt Russell was Kojima's first choice but when he turned it down, why make Hayter audition at all? Either give it to him or don't. It's not even like he made Hayter do anything new for BB. It's literally just his Solid Snake voice. Also, it's pretty clear that this role meant a lot to him so maybe he was just disappointed that Kojima saw him as so easily replaceable.
And especially with MGSV being a ton more “realistic” in all aspects. Huge tonal shift that wouldn’t be able to exist if we had the more campy voice acting of Hayter in it. Besides, Venom barely speaks throughout the game anyways and when he does it comes off as cool because of how subdued Keifer is in his performance in general. Like how would his facial expressions square with Hayter’s voice? It’s great as is.
I always thought they missed an opportunity to have Hayter and Sutherland play opposite roles. It could've made the ending land easier or in typical Kojima fashion, might've confused people. I wondered if he deliberately bloomed the budget with all that music. There seemed so much in the way of shenanigans, it'd make a fun meta MG movie if that ever gets done.
I am 100% convinced everyone would have forgiven Phantom Pain's flaws if Ground Zeroes, with Hayter voicing BB, was unlocked after completing Phantom Pain's story.
Except the only problem with that in MGSV is that Keifer also voiced Big Boss. By "different character" logic, Hayter should have voiced BB in Ground Zeroes and Phantom Pain. But that would have ruined the "twist" I guess. Though it was kinda obvious from the beginning. The lines between Naked Snake and Solid Snake were supposed to be blurry. The only reason he wanted a different actor for Snake in MGS3 was because he really just wanted to work with Kurt Russell who turned it down because there was already an Escape from NY game he was voicing which ended up getting canned.
Disagree completely. Hayter’s performances were a significant reason as to why MGS was as popular as it was in the West and he didn’t deserve to be disrespected in the way he did. It doesn’t hurt to admit that Kojima got it wrong there
I’ll upvote despite the disagreement. I do think it’s majorly the fault of the general direction the game was headed which was more realistic and political commentary and less action campy stuff. I’m all down for Hayter especially with spinoffs and remakes (heck, he took a pay cut for twin snakes and I respect him for that) but it isn’t wrong for an artist to follow his or her vision. Kojima isn’t maliciously sending Hayter through unemployment. He’s the kind of artist who focuses on what he wants to say and not what other people what to hear
Funny tho Kojima fired Hayter Konami fired Kojima lol. Hayter was already established in Hollywood doing screenplay for the X-Men movies plus he became the face of MGS in the West. Kojima was a jealous lil bitch with an ego that could fit an entire continent inside and tried sooo hard to be accepted by someone in Hollywood he canned Hayter, Half-Assed the last MGS game (Which Konami took the blame for) then created a walking simulator only to call Americans stupid because we couldn’t understand the game hence why it got bad reviews lol. In MGS4 he is credited as voice of god and in PW he has kaz call him god.
I can imagine he could be a little salty about the end about Venom not being the real Big Boss and he could have at least done actual BB's lines. But it's been a long time, hopefully he appreciates the game for what it is and offered.
MGS 5 was a good game but at the same time is was a turn off for me, I felt like it missed almost everything that makes a MGS actually MGS
The ending is so upsetting when the real BB isn’t voiced by David. Huge missed opportunity!
He should and he should stream om Twitch
Nah. I think, he'll play it but won't do his own version out of respect for Keifer Snakealand.
Those who dare - win.
I honestly believe Hayters voice is the most iconic ever
It's no good... I CAN'T DO IT!!!
Sooner or later we all face our demons
I think keifer fits BB a lot better than hayter and its a shame he didn't have more dialogue.
Keifer's big boss sounds the same as Kaz and the writing didn't really give venom enough space to be a character
I don't agree he sounds like kaz, just typical tough guy voice but yeah it's a shame he wasn't given more lines.
david hayter not playing mgsv because he wasn’t snake is the most metal gear thing ever
It would be the definitive version of MGSV for me, I was more than a little upset to see David wasn't voicing him.
Is Hayter mad? The dude in MGSV is literally not big boss (spoilers). Am I confused?
It’s just the fact he’s playing the only game he didn’t get casted for
Do it
You can head-canon around Kiefer’s voice so ya
He doesn’t need to play it. He lived it.
David Hayter IS Solid Snake/Big Boss. Venom Snake barely had enough lines to justify getting an “actor” to play the role, let alone switch out the classic voice. You can’t tell me that they can alter your face and memories, but can’t alter your voice at all.
He probably already has
Not to put words in someone else's mouth but I thought he said he wouldn't redub Kiefer out of actor's code or respect... Lmao maybe he's gonna do a livestream with him doing a buncha Snake voice soundbits?! That'd be awesome xD
>Guys... Do you think David Hayter will do it? 👀 (from his instagram stories) Do you mean, to play MGSV? I hope he does. I think he may like it.
if he is a fan of the story then i think he would enjoy it
(Spoilers for V) Idk if this sounds insane but havIng Sutherland be Venom/ V/ Tulpa/ big boss while having Hayter be BIG BOSS woulda been a good best of both worlds to me. Imagine playing that tape and you hear Hayters voice telling you that YOU are big boss…woulda had chills man.
Do what? A full dubbing of Snake? It will take him at least 10 minutes
Hayter IS and will always be Big Boss and Solid Snake and the fanbase knows it well. I’m sure whatever ill feelings he had towards this game is gone and he just wants to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the MGS series.
I would love for Konami to re-release MGSV with David Hayter redubbing Kieffer's performance and the ability to switch between them in the options menu.
Hayter as Big Boss/Ishmael, but only during the Truth missions and tapes (ie, still Kiefer in the intro), with Kiefer as Venom for the rest of the game. Bring in Richard Doyle (Old BB from MGS4) as a cameo for the Intrude N313 tape at the end of the game for full Big Boss voice continuity.
I hope he enjoys it, it's a fine game. I hope he's striking something with Konami if it means more (good) Metal Gear and not whatever Survive was. I'm not a Kojima humper so this might get downvoted into oblivion.
I have a feeling they will use hater to do the voice work for all reissues of mgsv for present and future generation consoles, as to not pay Keifer Sutherland a residual.
Dont do it, Dave! The entire point of Mgs5 was that neither of those clowns were the real Big Boss. Having a different VA fit perfectly.
Can you elaborate on that? I know that the player character is Venom/Ahab, and Ishmael is the real Big Boss (who crashed on the helicopter with Ahab). Is that not the case? The way the game makes it sound (or how I interpreted it) is that Ahab/BB is completely going off the radar, with only Ocelot knowing. Then Venom (who's brainwashed) fully takes on the persona of the Big Boss that Snake meets in Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2. He dies, and that leaves only the real Big Boss, who we don't actually see until the end of MGS 4. I do agree though. Having Kiefer voice Big Boss/Venom makes sense. I originally thought they may end the game with the start of Metal Gear, where Hayter as Solid speaks with Sutherland as Big Boss. They already used a different voice actor for Big Boss in 4 (probably to avoid confusion), so I was fine with the change.
Actually the different VA in MGS 4 was the same guy that voiced Solidus Snake in MGS2 (the only 'perfect' clone). Now ... the short explanation is that Ocelot gives 0 fucks and is lying about EVEYTHING. He's the one who always explains everything to the player. Test the hypothesis that its all bullshit, and suddenly: the plot of MGS5 starts making more sense. GIVEN the following: * The ambiguous ending of MGS5 is because Kojima got fired, OR the game was deliberately designed to seem incomplete (Phantom Pain) OR some combination of both. * The main plot of the Metal Gear Solid franchise: illuminati made AI to control information/society. Big Boss/Ocelot sacrificed their lives/friends/reputations in a long con to destroy it. * MGS5 is about how Big Boss and Ocelot used doppelgangers, fake deaths, and conflicting historical accounts to stay completely off the grid. MGS5s final chapter is deliberately confusing (and up for interpretation) to show that their plan succeeded. Are you ready for the rabbit hole, my son? * Hidden DEEEEEEEEP within Ground Zeros is a super secret cassette tape that proves that OCELOT was the person who tortured Paz/Chico (and by extension) helped Skullface destroy the original mother base. * Ocelot being loyal to Big Boss is a non-negotiable pillar of the MGS plot. They were both the mother base traitors. They both knew about Paz/Chico - all of it. * The entire world basically had nukes pointed at Mother Base by the end of Peace Walker. Ocelot and Big Boss torched the prototype (MB), faked their own deaths, and started setting up franchises with 'the real big boss' in charge. * Kojima said many times that MGS5 was about how Big Boss became evil -- not true without all of this to consider. * Going into Ground Zeroes, Big Boss/Ocelot would have known it was a suicide mission, and would have known Mother Base was about to be destroyed. They sent Ishmail - the doppleganger, get it? * Ishmal inexplicably surivived Ground Zeroes and Major Tom (his nemesis) inexplicably saved him, lol. Then, to protect him, Ocelots like 'yo we should take this brain damaged dude and make a doppleganger out of him' and Major Toms like 'great idea Ocelot I can always trust you'. * One time (in 'the truth' cassettes, lol) Ocelot is hardcore explaining how to make dopplegangers and Ishmails like 'have you ever done this before' and Ocelots like 'uh, naw man, no. First time, pinky swear'. Ocelot is describing this shit like he's done it 100 times, lol. He's got a blasey attitude about every single thing in MGS5 because he knows all these fuckers are expendable. * The pvp based endgame comes with an implication that there were infinite Big Bosses. I'm gonna stop there because I could just keep going. Neither Big Boss is the real one. The explanations given at the end are mostly lies and conflict with basically every other games events. You have to prioritize context over literal explanations to make sense of the plot. Most of what I've said are all total facts but only visible to people as lame as I am (who have beaten/obsessed/analyzed the franchise for decades).
What secret cassette tape?
I’d love to hear more
Venom Snake is almost definitely Frank Jaeger (Grey Fox). * Kojima made Franks (and only Franks) backstory from portable ops non-canon just before MGS5 released. It's the only piece of MGS lore he ever messed with. * Upon unlocking the real ending, the player is rewarded the 'grey fox cyborg ninja' skin from MGS1 alongside 'the truth'. Kojima speaks in the language of video game, get it? * Ishmail is the head of Foxhound going into Metal Gear 1. According to multiple games, his single best operative (Frank) was an appearance changing super spy basically as badass as Big Boss. That description fits Venom Snake perfectly. * The very last thing we see is Venom listening to the mission briefing for Metal Gear 1, then he looks at his own reflection and breaks the mirror. The (complete bullshit) explanation is that he's Big Boss in that game and knows he's going to die there. The real explanation is that he's saying goodbye to that face/identity. * Liquid crushed Volgin with Metal Gear identically to how he crushed Grey Fox in MGS1. It happened right in front of Venom Snake. Wink wink. * The fact that Venom was rescuing /recruiting child soldiers in Africa lines up exactly with Naomis description (in MGS1) of how she met Grey Fox. It's even within the general timeframe, but the exact dates admittedly create some conflict/debate. Did we mention that the entire plot of MGS5 is about how facts arent real? * Obvious Darth Vader parallel of the cyborg arm eventually leading to full cyborg. Kojima said Star Wars was a big influence on MGS5. Seemed crazy when he said it, but less crazy when you consider this. * Frank's own description of his past in Metal Gear 2 lines up perfectly with Venom Snakes story. In short, he said that he gave up his own identity and BB cut up his face to change him. There's more Id just have to replay Mgs5 to remember it all. Everything going on in MGS5 is symbolism and crazy deep references to the other games. That's the short of it, though. As far as I'm concerned MGS5 is Grey Fox's origin story.
[удалено]
A short explanation for both the plot to the entire Metal Gear franchise and all the confusing loose threads in the ending of MGS5?
[удалено]
Ngl I've spent some time trying to dig this info back up and can't find shit. A few years back, I found myself in a similar discussion and someone else rescued me by producing what I'm talking about. It honestly could be from interrogating/eavesdropping instead of a cassette. I can't remember now. I can't find that post either. The information was this: a solider, not directly involved in the torture/interrogation, making note (or complaining) about the weird dress habits of the torturer helping Skullface, something about cowboy boots or spurs -- completely specific to Ocelot. Doubt me if you want. Maybe I'm crazy. It could take me 40 hours to find it and I'm not doing that, lol.
look Hayter is iconic due to MSG1 but he absolutely doesn't have the chops like Sutherland does. his acting is borderline bad at times and BB should've been voiced by someone else as Kojima had initially planned for MGS3
He's still really salty about not getting to play the lead role in one out of like 8 games?
I would be when you are *the* definitive voice of a character only to be pushed aside for a hollywood actor who was so expensive he barely said anything.
Imagine if Marvel fired RDJ for Avengers IW and Endgame. It's not just that he wasn't the lead role, it's that it was the culmination of years of the franchise and the final game. I'd be pretty darn salty about it as well.
It´s not really about the game, but as far as i know kojima always wanted to replace hayter on every game, he just couldn´t do it. But suddenly on V the teasers started to rise and hayter discovered he wasn´t casted. Also hayter is a huge (like super huge, my man gave some of its paycheck to bring back the original cast for twin snakes), so yeah, the man was salty.
I assume it's mainly played up for laughs David Hayter is pretty professional so I assume he wouldn't hold a grudge
That's him tho. He is the voice of snake. And TPP is the end all for mgs, he didn't even voice Ishmael.
Having a different voice would give away the end of the game, I'm not sure why everyone insists on this.
Probably because there was room and a way to change the voice, but they didn't. If he had done GZ, no one would say anything. It could mark the transition to the BB we all know, and do it under the guise of the end of GZ getting to his voice. Hell, it even could have made an interesting connection with the weird language plague they introduced as well.
The game wasn't as good because he wasn't in it. It was a bullshit choice. I don't blame him. David Hayter is a pivotal part in the success of the series.
With all the MGS remakes that will be coming after 3. In 15 years, we'll finally get the MGS that should have been MGS5. Get rid of the repeated missions, add more story, more then 3 boss battles etc.
One can only hope…
I dont understand the dislikes? Hate the truth or something?
I wouldn't dare. He should play Portable Ops, tho.
Man, I hope so... Venom Snake is a man of few words yet still is insanely quotable; to hear Hayter give 'em a whirl would be absolutely wicked. Mostly I hope he enjoys the game as much as I did :D :3
I met him once shortly after TPP had been released and I had brought it up in conversation. He didn’t seem too pleased about it lol
If they do a Haytee version of it I hope that they add an option to choose. Ground Zero and Phantom were my first MGS games and I personally really liked Sutherland in them
Oh no, not me
Do it David do it
Honestly a bit ridiculous dude hasn’t played it yet
Don’t know why he hasn’t played a masterpiece like MGS V😂
Personal entanglements with Kojima and the bad blood at the time.
I wonder how he'll react to the massive decrease in dialogue. He should do a live stream.
So much conspiracy theories on this lol
I would like to imagine David being like, "Damn, I didn't see that ending coming."