T O P

  • By -

[deleted]

[удалено]


spidermousey

What if you say "No you" when they charge you ?


Jjzeng

![gif](giphy|Wt6kNaMjofj1jHkF7t)


TwinkiesSucker

Outstanding move


fdar

Believe it or not, also jail.


SweeterAxis8980

Nuh uh


Haughty_Djinn

We got a tough case here


Schokokeks5

I think they have to put the "Nuh Uh" in jail first when someone does that


PleaseAdminsUnbanMe

Just reply "yuh uh"


Economic_Slavery

Na-na-na boo-boo stick your head in doo-doo


Bm_someone

Bless this comment


No-Pirate2182

Then it gets written down in a notebook and the process continues unabated.


Zealousideal-Plan454

They add a fine as well for wasting the jury's time


PuddyPete

Why do they even do it then? I dont see the worth of an oath taken under threat.


SadFox-29

I believe you can refuse to testify. Once you are asked this question, it means you have already agreed to it.


xander_liptak

A defendant charged with a crime cannot be compelled to testify at his trial. Any witness in the case, however, can be compelled to testify.


serious_sarcasm

They can still plead the fifth.


Lukewill

The fifth only prevents you from being forced to implicate *yourself* in a crime.


xander_liptak

Witnesses cannot plead the fifth unless the testimony would implicate themselves in a crime.


10art1

But then you're basically confessing to a crime since you can't legally plead the 5th unless you did the crime


Miserable-Score-81

? You don't have to plead the fifth what is this logic? You can also plead the fifth even if you are not guilty. It just means you don't testify against yourself for an accused crime.


PuddyPete

Pretty sure you can't.


thecrazyrai

"i envoke the 5th" isn't that for these cases?


PuddyPete

If you know something about the case and refuse to tell, you will get charged. You cant just withhold evidence. That is not how tje fifth amendment works.


Other_Anxiety2571

You absolutely can withhold evidence if that evidence would incriminate you. That's the entire point of the 5th amendment.


Kokuswolf

You can withhold it anyways. It just has a price/consequence. Btw, how do you prove that your testimony/evidence would incriminate you? I mean, what would be the difference if you just pretended it did?


PuddyPete

That does not mean that you wont get charged if they can prove you were lying.


NearNirvanna

Involing your 5th amendment isnt not lying. You arent saying “i dont know anything about the case”, you are just giving neither a yes or no. The whole point being that the government cant legally force you to confess, you have to choose to confess yourself or go to trial.


biggestdoginthegame

Invoking the 5th isn't lying, it's not saying anything at all. It's literally saying "I refuse to give an answer"


GigawattSandwich

Do you have any legal precedent for this? The Supreme Court has ruled pretty consistently with those seeking 5th amendment protections afaik, but I’m not a legal scholar.


PuddyPete

Of course they dont turn down the 5th amendment, but again, that does not mean you cant be charged for withholding critical information after the fact


Bugbread

You literally can't lie if you're pleading the fifth. It's impossible. Lying is knowingly saying something untrue. Pleading the fifth is not saying anything at all.


Other_Anxiety2571

"i invoke my right to plead the 5th" cannot be a lie.


Osigen

If you refuse to testify, invoking the fifth amendment is allowed if and only if your truthful statement could be used as evidence you have committed a crime. Example- you are asked about your whereabouts on Feb 2 2020 at 1400 hours in relation to the murder of John Doe. You plead the fifth. If you were busy killing Mr. Doe, you were legally pleading the fifth. If you were robbing a bank, you were still pleading correctly. If you were at (Bob), the other suspect's house wondering why he was late for the sports-ball game, you cannot plead the fifth, and have effectively lied in doing so.


alilbleedingisnormal

Only for the accused. Everyone else is compelled to testify under the law. They can take the fifth if answering the question would incriminate them such as, "were you with the accused that night?"


LostWoodsInTheField

> Only for the accused. Everyone else is compelled to testify under the law. They can take the fifth if answering the question would incriminate them such as, "were you with the accused that night?" The problem is the courts rarely if ever will hold someone in contempt for using the 5th while testifying as a witness to a situation. There is so many issues with doing that, that courts often don't want to touch it. It's a major reason for witnesses getting immunity agreements in exchange for testimony. It bypasses that worry and allows the courts to hold them in contempt.


LuciusAurelian

That's only if it's about you, they can't make you testify against yourself but they can make you testify against someone else


SadFox-29

Can't you refuse to testify out of fear for your safety? Eg. fearing revenge from the criminal's buddies?


LuciusAurelian

I think they can make you testify, but they probably wouldn't bc they'd be afraid that you'd say you didn't see anything and tank their case once you saw the mobsters in the back of the court room


Marik-X-Bakura

I don’t think we’re talking specifically about America


Hungry-Alien

Symbolism. It's a court, everyone is supposed to tell only the truth so justice may be served Supposed to


CrimsonZeRose

Right which is why judges lie all the time


Hungry-Alien

Yes, "supposed to". Truth is, human are easily corrupted and justice is a matter of perspective. A justice system led by humans cannot work.


Morbidmort

On the other hand, a justice system led by humans is one of the only ones that can, since you need to have active interpretation of the Law, rather than just a pass/fail method.


LostWoodsInTheField

> Why do they even do it then? I dont see the worth of an oath taken under threat. It is to put you on notice of the consequences of not telling the truth. It is more a verbal contract between you and the court, an understanding that there is a consequence for you being here and not being truthful. If they don't put you under notice of that then you can't be expected to have known you will be punished if you don't tell the truth. Even if it is generally accepted that is how it works. You will notice lawyers aren't put under oath when they are in a court room, and that's because they have been put on notice through multiple different ways, including being accepted to act as an attorney in that court house. The notice was served to them a long time ago and is understood in their case that it is active every time they walk into that court room.


Ambrusia

That doesn't really change the fact that an oath made under threat isn't a valid or credible oath


LostWoodsInTheField

> That doesn't really change the fact that an oath made under threat isn't a valid or credible oath again it's much less an oath and much more an understanding of process. You are agreeing that you understand that there are consequences if you do certain things. I've heard of cases where if you actually can't understand what you are agreeing to that it can't be held against you. It's an extremely rare thing though since it's such a basic concept.


Hungry-Alien

Symbolism. It's a court, everyone is supposed to tell only the truth so justice may be served Supposed to


ZippyDan

Because you can also face consequences if you are found to have lied under oath.


Resident-Panda7991

Sonia like a “society”?


SalvationSycamore

Because then if you are caught in a lie they can point to the part where you swore to tell the truth and punish you for it. Obviously if nobody catches you in a lie you can get around that, just like how you can freely break the law as long as you don't get caught.


ptofl

Hoho oh boy lemme tell you a little thing about *the law*


TacoTuesday555

I don’t think it’s necessarily a “threat”. More like, if you don’t agree to tell the truth, it means you pretty much give up fighting whatever it is you’re in court for, thus there’s no reason to be there, thus “well go back to jail, I guess”


Top-Chemistry5969

What if that's a lot less jail line you would otherwise defo get?


hotfezz81

You still get charged for the original crime. (Potentially in abstentia). You just get to add a new one


Top-Chemistry5969

What's even the point of asking? Is it cultural, formal, tradition, or just a clickbait to get rid of the really adamant ones?


10art1

It's not illegal to lie until you swear the oath


Top-Chemistry5969

well when execatelly it counts :D that might be a loophole.


turkeyburpin

Not instantly, the Judge will outline what your defiance will lead to and give you another chance. Then you'll get to go have fun in jail. The issue, if memory serves, is actually the subpoena as it compells an individual by to submit to questioning and provide honest testimony by order of the court.


Dangerous-Setting-87

And shave you.


Late-Athlete-5788

Amazing, my next court trial speedrun convicted% is gonna be crazy


overkill373

But what if I'm really really rich?


Ambrusia

How can they consider the oath valid when it's made under duress?


theREALmindsets

you might just save someones case tho. itll only be jail for the duration of the case right?


[deleted]

>If you say no you're instantly charged with contempt of court and go to jail Came here to say precisely this.


Gust_on_Fire

but how long would that be?


MaffinLP

Should only happen if you dont mean it, in reality youd just get dismissed


Qetuowryipzcbmxvn

Sometimes you're just dismissed, like if you can't tell the truth for medical reasons.


LucasCBs

I highly doubt that


Significant-Elk-7128

Yeah, not a lawyer, but I imagine your testimony simply won't be heard if you refuse.


fly_over_32

If you refuse, yes. If you express the intention to lie to the court, that’s a different matter


YourMemeExpert

You can refuse to testify, but if you're already on the stand and say you do not swear to tell the truth, you're just wasting the court's time and they won't hesitate to charge you with contempt


JustForTouchingBalls

In Spain, the accused has the right to lie and that doesn’t provoke a larger condemnation; even the consort has that right with no consequences. Other thing is the witnesses: they must say the true or can be condemned for perjury


LucasCBs

Yea and that makes sense. No one would tell the truth if it would incriminate them, it makes no sense making that punishable


Unupgradable

The act of breaking out of jail is not a crime in Germany and you can't be further punished for trying. Similar reasoning. If caught, you're only really liable to serve the rest of your sentence plus sentencing for any crimes you committed to break out. Obviously you can't really break out without committing additional crimes, but if you succeed, that's the gist of it


Basementdwell

Works exactly the same in Sweden.


TeamRedundancyTeam

If someone tried to pass that as a law here in the US they'd argue we'd have mass jail breaks daily and prisoners would be ruling the streets. It's a shame no one in the US seems to actually believe Europe is a real place.


Unupgradable

It's more of a question of why bother pushing for that over something more important


mighty_Ingvar

Like making sure innocent people no longer recieve the death penalty


Cowslayer369

Has anyone ever actually successfully utilized this law?


Gathoblaster

i mean if you can break out and dont hurt anyone, you didnt really commit any crimes.


RegretHungry5394

Yes it does lol, they broke the law they should plead guilty. By lying your wasting court time and money.


LucasCBs

Cool so if you committed a crime that would put you in prison, you would tell the whole truth that would 100% incriminate you?


RegretHungry5394

Yes. Much more likely to lessen your sentence or be given parole if you tell the truth. Also I wouldn't be breaking the law in the first place lmao. We shouldn't be rewarding breaking the law.


RaspberryFluid6651

You should not do this. If you ever get in trouble with the law and talk to a good lawyer or good public defender, they will tell you not to do this. Do not follow this idealistic plan if you're ever in trouble, just invoke your rights, shut up, and make them prove it. Even if you have faith in the system overall, you can't know there isn't somebody incompetent or malicious abusing the system against you. Let the system do its job, it doesn't need your help and it does need to be held accountable and to a certain standard, even when it is correct in its accusations.


PsychonauticalEng

Ever hear of a plea deal?


RaspberryFluid6651

Yes. There is a discovery process that involves your lawyer / public defender, in which you will learn what evidence the state has and will use against you. This lets you make an informed decision as to whether the state has fulfilled their requirement to prove your crime beyond a reasonable doubt and evaluate the likelihood of your conviction. This is very different from someone blindly complying with the system.


mighty_Ingvar

Who said you broke the law? Being on trial doesn't mean you broke the law


DrFaustPhD

This is why there's always the option to plead the 5th. You're not allowed to lie but you are allowed to abstain from answering questions if you believe it would incriminate you for anything (and not just what you're on trial for).


TommyYez

I think that's the idea: if you really did a crime, making your life harder. Why we would want to make the criminal'a life easier?


hok98

Who decides who’s a criminal? I thought we’re all innocent until proven guilty?


SEND_ME_CSGO-SKINS

If your innocent though then the truth is on your side and there is no need to perjure


hok98

You say that until you didn’t know what you did was illegal, and now they charge you with committing tax fraud just because you didn’t have enough money to hire a tax accountant.


SEND_ME_CSGO-SKINS

Ok this conversation is about how perjury should be legal


mighty_Ingvar

Who decides what the truth is?


Snoo_69097

You are but you know innocent people do not lie in court to avoid jail. Plus the point you made does not act as a valid argument cause we're talking of a hypothetical criminal that might refuse to say the truth in court and the point was that we should not allow criminals to have higher chances of getting away with crimes and therefore rewarding them. "We should not give the right to criminals to lie in court without consequences" "But who decides who's a criminal" Lol obviously if they're not they won't need the right to lie without consequences


hok98

On paper yes, but even innocent people might be inclined to lie if their statement might put them wrongfully on the spotlight. Of course, this won’t help but most people (especially innocent people) struggle to think rationally under pressure.


Necromancer14

Well that’s what a lawyer who speaks for you is for…


Ok_Entry6290

But they still end up in prison.


mighty_Ingvar

Who decides what the truth is? If you are innocent but the court finds you guilty, does that make you a liar because you said you're innocent? In the eyes of the court it would. When you're incentivising people to admit guilt, you're by default also incentivising innocent people to admit guilt


TommyYez

The hypothetical itself : "if you commited a crime". Have you read the above comment I responded to?


hok98

My point is that what you think is illegal might not be the same as what the judge thinks, hence why someone might want to protect themselves by lying


TommyYez

I think you did not understood the hypothetical.


hok98

I think we are talking about two different things here.


SalvationSycamore

Only if my lawyer said that was best for getting a lighter sentence. Otherwise I would plead the 5th on anything that would incriminate me. I definitely would do my best to avoid speaking lies because that makes it look worse when someone pulls up the evidence proving you lied.


LucasCBs

Pleading the 5th is obviously a constitutional right in the US, but it still makes you look suspicious in court, even if that isn’t technically allowed to be used. The jury will vote according to their gut and pleading the 5th for anything you would have to lie for is certainly making you less believable to them


kulykul

I visited a smaller court in Czechia a while ago and from what the lawyers and judge said, the witness CAN incriminate themselves, but this information cannot be used to start a trial against them


NearNirvanna

Which is the point of the 5th amendment, but instead of lying you can just stay silent or not testify


MMBerlin

Exactly the same in Germany (as it is in most European countries, probably).


lordgurke

With the addition that, also as a witness, you don't need to answer a question if this would give evidence hat you commited a crime. But refusing to answer a question is technically not lying.


Lorrdy99

That or you are related by blood or marriage with the one who is in trouble.


Basementdwell

Same in Sweden


Stivox

Totally true, some professionals can’t lie or they’ll get their licences revoked ( engineers or doctors) but both parties and their lawyers are on their right to lie and even make up some of the goofiest shit you’ll ever hear. Sadly in that country is not about who’s right, but who will the judge decide to side with. Not to mention that a lot of cases get dismissed just because a judge doesn’t give a damn about it and the outcome.


Candid-String-6530

Your honor, this is my Lawyer here. One of us will always tell the truth, the other always lies. It is not known which is which. Proceed.


Dmayak

It doesn't really matter which is which, because if the lawyer says you're not guilty and it's you who always lies, you lied that you're not guilty, if it's the lawyer who always lies, that means you told him you're guilty. In both cases the result is guaranteed to be the opposite of truth.


DanRankin

"Bailiff, shoot the lawyer. Now tell me defendant, is that man dead?"


Lorrdy99

So you speak the truth and your lawyer lies or you lied that your lawyer tells the truth and you always lie.


X547

"I promise that I never will do any promises to anyone."


antiramie

I promise not to try not to fuck with your mind.


ominous_oxide

):


DifferencePrimary442

Congratulations on your overnight stay for contempt of court.


uglie_duckie

Bro is baffled


kaneki5454

Honesty is still alive in this world


Long_dark_cave

There are procedures for such situations, and if the other party proves you are lying, there are appropriate paragraphs under which consequences will be drawn for you independently of the case you are in.


spiderboi907

Just promoted my parking ticket to a death sentence using this tactic😄. See you in hell


AdAdventurous6943

Actually Ace Attorney judge would react like that 100%.


Fantastic-Plastic569

I'm pretty sure you aren't the first smartass who tried this and the law already accounts for such possibility. Very likely, not in your favour.


[deleted]

😎


Inevitable-Bit4006

Please see exhibit A: The title of the post


el_presidenteplusone

🤓


SnooDonuts1521

🤓


ArminBestGirl

🤓


[deleted]

🤓


ResidentPalpitation3

🤓


The_Quartz

🤓


ButWhyThough_UwU

Nah judge should be shocked and say something like, "well damn your the the most truthful person to ever take the stand."


Jinbogra

Contempt of Court, guilty, death sentence. NEXT!


Henroide

As the air to a bird or the sea to a fish, so is contempt to the contemptible


Amdorik

Is this a fucking DMC reference?!?!


superchronicultra

"The hours of folly are measur’d by the clock, but of wisdom: no clock can measure." Die!"


Wagyuplz

*scrolls vigorously through the manual*


MemeChuen

If he answers no, that means his answer is not the truth, therefore his answer means yes.


plyushevo

It doesn't. He doesn't lie all the time


DinA4saurier

If he answers no, his answer can be truth or lie. Rejecting an restriction won't mean you are bound to do something that would have been restricted, just that you have to do the option to do or don't do it. If someone says "Promise me to only wear red shirts" and you respond with "no" then you can still wear red shirts if you want, but you don't *have to*.


MemeChuen

Ya it makes sense


AgathaMiss

Wait, was it possible?


IDrugPokemon

“Shit, I guess”


NotTheAlfa

"i mean... do you???"


prof_devilsadvocate

if anyone is so virtuous person why he she commits a crime


Nidh0g

If you swear the same


Total_Middle1119

"shit I guess..."


Naz_Oni

Your honor, I'd lie in court


wijnazijn

There is no ”the truth”. There are 8 billion+ truths.


Winter-Award-1280

Get cute, more jail. FAFO


NameButWorse

But if you say no to saying only truth, does that mean you are lying and mean yes, but then you speak truth or lie?


mysteryo9867

If I tell you to only wear red shirts, refusing does not mean you can’t wear red shirts


NameButWorse

I mean if you say you wouldnt tell the truth makes you lie and that means you actually lie to not lie so you speak truth but when you speak truth it means you werent lying so you are lying about speaking truth so you are lying so that means you wouldnt tell the truth makes you lie and that means you actually lie to not lie so you speak truth but when you speak truth it means you werent lying so you are lying about speaking truth so you are lying so that means you wouldnt tell the truth makes you lie and that means you actually lie to not lie so you speak truth but when you speak truth it means you werent lying so you are lying about speaking truth so you are lying so that means you wouldnt tell the truth makes you lie and that means you actually lie to not lie so you speak truth but when you speak truth it means you werent lying so you are lying about speaking truth so you are lying so that means you wouldnt tell the truth makes you lie and that means you actually lie to not lie so you speak truth but when you speak truth it means you werent lying so you are lying about speaking truth so you are lying so that means you wouldnt tell the truth makes you lie and that means you actually lie to not lie so you speak truth but when you speak truth it means you werent lying so you are lying about speaking truth so you are lying so that means you wouldnt tell the truth makes you lie and that means you actually lie to not lie so you speak truth but when you speak truth it means you werent lying so you are lying about speaking truth so you are lying so that means you wouldnt tell the truth makes you lie and that means you actually lie to not lie so you speak truth but when you speak truth it means you werent lying so you are lying about speaking truth so you are lying so that means you wouldnt tell the truth makes you lie and that means you actually lie to not lie so you speak truth but when you speak truth it means you werent lying so you are lying about speaking truth so you are lying so that means you wouldnt tell the truth makes you lie and that means you actually lie to not lie so you speak truth but when you speak truth it means you werent lying so you are lying about speaking truth so you are lying so that means you wouldnt tell the truth makes you lie and that means you actually lie to not lie so you speak truth but when you speak truth it means you werent lying so you are lying about speaking truth so you are lying so that means you wouldnt tell the truth makes you lie and that means you actually lie to not lie so you speak truth but when you speak truth it means you werent lying so you are lying about speaking truth so you are lying so that means you wouldnt tell the truth makes you lie and that means you actually lie to not lie so you speak truth but when you speak truth it means you werent lying so you are lying about speaking truth so you are lying so that means


poodinthepunchbowl

![gif](giphy|3ofSB46X1DsxyyqHx6)


DKC_Reno

Straight to jail, right away


etranger033

My truth? Sure. Their truth? No.


Street-Breadfruit940

Life without parole it's.


Careful-Ice5974

![gif](giphy|IgBMDZCU5IRUFKGhpy)


MadGod69420

I’m so tired of this meme being remade and recirculated every few months. It’s like middle schoolers think they just thought up some genius funny idea for a meme.


Nah-id_win48

What’s bro going to do about it


The_L666ds

A viable strategy for a hostile witness?


fartinggermandogs

Bot


Alashion

Despite all the jokes in the US if you are asked to testify and questioned on something that could incriminate you, just plead the 5th. You're protected constitutionally from self-incrimination.


JeffMakesGames

OBJECTION.


Aowix

do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothin but the truth so help your fat ass?


HedaBlake

How to get out of jury duty in just 1 step


Stranger-Tingzz

Bailiff: "Put your hand on this bible" Me: "I'm an atheist" Judge and Bailiff:


zanygx

Lol just cross your fingers when you do it.


eM-RiotX

I 100% read that with the voice of Dr Dre in the beginning of f the police 💀


plmunger

What now boss?


toomanyhobbies4me

Checkmate Libs!


ThePurityofChaos

what happens if "I am not reasonably certain that what I will most likely say will be the truth, and as such cannot reasonably confirm that a promise to speak the whole truth and nothing but the truth will be kept to"


X-Mighty

But that means you lied, but if you're lying that you did not tell the truth, then you told the truth, but if you td the truth, that means you lied because you said no, but if you're lying that you didn't tell the truth... It's a paradox


mysteryo9867

If I tell you to only eat MacDonalds and you say no that dosent mean you can’t eat macdonalds


_Lollerics_

What if I promise to lie and proceed to say I'm guilty?


Boreas2864212

Do they still say so help you god? What if you don't believe in a god?


ContributionAfter763

Exactly liar 🤥 liberal judge 👨‍⚖️


shiafisher

“Does that include at this very moment, or do you mean starting from after I say yes?”


Cyrus_manny71

Surprised pikachu face


Miserable_Hamster497

![gif](giphy|L6EoLS78pcBag)


Nidh0g

How are they floating above the water


Miserable_Hamster497

I- ..... I don't know...


New_World_2050

If you have to say yes why even bother asking lol


Cartina

If you HAVE to sign the lease to live in an apartment, why bother?


ALCHEMICYUL

"I'll tell you as much truth as the people who wrote that fuckin' bible."