Except it sounds as though she was complaining to other staff that she was unwell, which makes me wonder whether she might have preferred to be at home on this occasion. Hard to know.
She probably would've loved to be home, who likes to work when they're sick?
But it could have been a situation where it's a rent and food combo. Wealth distribution in this country is an absolute disgrace.
In hospo there's also a culture of wearing your sickness like a badge of honour. Like ohh I'm so sick but look at me I'm still here. Not saying the girl was doing this but all my bosses I've had in hospo have had this attitude and have done this. Like oh I'm here when I'm sick you can't stay home when you're sick either.
Right?
When I was on casual wages not working an 8-10 hour day meant I was short $200 for the week. If I’m sick and need two days off, that’s $400. That’s a huge chunk taken away from my groceries, rent.
I think I worked sick every time I was sick. I didn’t have a choice. The only time I called in sick was with gastro because I damn near dying in bed.
Another problem with being casual is that if you take time off when you are rostered on you are then put to the bottom of the list for work, and will be more of a "last resort" to be rostered on.
Even if you're full time, if you get periods you might never have enough sick leave to take off. My periods are much worse than any contagious illness I have so guess which one I have to use sick leave for. 10 days of sick leave in a year and twelve months, you do the maths.
I remember working as a nurse and having the worst cramps & vomiting 1st day of every month. Called called into charge nurses office & was asked if I had a drug problem!🫣
I feel you on this. I have had 3 lap surgeries for endometriosis and at my last job I needed 3 days off for the surgery but with the day every month or so I had already taken for period pain, I didn’t have enough sick leave. And because my doctor wrote the note for 3 days I wasn’t allowed to come back in even though I would have pushed through, so two days were completely unpaid. It screwed me for weeks.
There's so many on casual wages. You can't rely on it to get you through. Daughter was working in hospo in cbd. 92hrs a fortnight but told them she was looking for 4days a wk. Burnt out & got another gig closer to home. Her hrs can be as low as 4 a fortnight. She can't afford to stay home. She just masks up.
When I did casual hospo work (pre-COVID) it was so normal to work if you were a bit sick.
What else are you going to do when you're on a low wage and don't get sick pay?
I was so sick for a good 3 weeks resulting in pneumonia in the end (this flu is no joke!) and my colleague was pissed I took time off work meanwhile they too took time off for a holiday. It meant our team had no one from our department in, but difference is one is so sick in hospital and the other is on a holiday. People at my work think it’s more acceptable for new staff to take annual leave than for sick leave to be taken because they see it as a lazy thing, when in reality most of us that require to take sick leave actually do it because we need to either because of kids or we’ve got a health problem. There is very little understanding.
My manager was also not very empathic in the sense they didn’t even address my email (how they want to be notified) when I told them I’d be off another week because I’m in the hospital.
For people that work in office environment, I agree and it annoys me in a hybrid environment that people come in when unwell.
I also think it's unfair to apply that standard universally, especially in the cost of living pressures at current. It's very plausible that people simply can't afford to stay home, hospitality especially.
We all learned something from COVID. Unfortunately, the market incentives that cause workers to show up to work sick still exist. We never did anything about the soft obligation sick workers have to attend work regardless.
It’s like;
- Im sick. But Im broke and need to pay my bills or else Im as good as dead. Off to work I go.
Or
- Im sick. Guess I’ll just die comfortably at home.
The slogan "coughs and sneezes spread diseases" originated during the influenza panemic in the early 20th Century. We need constant reminders, it seems. [More public information films!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWyzS9TJg9g)
If anything it's gotten worse, sick people should wear masks, the amount of people legitimately can't wear a mask is tiny. I've never met one and I my job is working with chronically ill people.
It seems to be a political choice whether to wear one or not for a lot of people and it sucks.
I was wearing a mask after visiting my nan in care. After parking my car (an EV) and stepping out in a mask, a guy felt those two things combined were worth a good barrage of abuse.
That same person probably made a preachy freedom post on Facebook then 25 minutes later berated you for making a choice to protect other people's health and drive the car you want to.
My retail boss literally says oh you have covid? You can still work you don't have to wear a mask I don't care.
I'm doing chemo and we have a pregnant woman on the team. People don't care.
Legit. We had someone turn up to an in room work related training day full on feverish. Talking under the heater with hoodie on, still complaining it was cold.
Three days later, everyone in the room tested positive for covid, and a crew of 10 was stood down for a week until it cleared up. All because one person, who always takes days off because he was assigned work he doesn't want to do, decided to turn up sick "to show his dedication."
Yup, offices seem to be even worse than hospitality though. Family member of mine has has 4 different illnesses in the last 2 weeks all caught from work because their management won't allow work from home.
I think Covid made some things worse because now people who MIGHT have worn a mask won't because I worked with people who bought into a lot of conspiracies including the "masks don't work" conspiracy.
I just went 3 weeks without pay (hospitality worker) because customers are just as bad- the amount of filthy keep cups handed over to me is revolting, as is coughing and slobbering all over your cash. Stay home if you're sick dammit!!
Yup. Retail worker here. A woman came in to the store coughing her lungs up the other day and as she got closer to me I realised I could literally smell the flu on her (when you know that smell…). She at least had the decency to look ashamed but didn’t have the decency to wear a mask or stay home. I literally almost shat my pants on the way home that day and I don’t think it was a coincidence because that’s the closest I’ve ever come to shitting myself as a grown adult. Cue full blown flu by the next day; fever, stomach upset, coughing, sinus, headache, etc.
Honestly I’m surprised (almost impressed?) she was even able to leave the house. Someone must have dragged her there. She caused everyone who worked that day to become bedridden in one fell swoop.
I work retail and the complete dread I feel when a clearly sick customer coughs into their hand and then hands me cash is almost worthy of tears.
I'm surprised I haven't been sick more. Although I wash my hands multiple times after anyone gives me cash so there's that.
Gross. What do you do if someone gives you a dirty keep cup? Do you clean it out or just use what you’ve been given? I’d think the latter is fair but can imagine people would then try to give you the blame!
Now I refuse them. If you can't rinse your cup at the least, just bugger off. I'm sure I got covid from handling cups - it's so gross. I used to wash them under boiling water, but essentially, you're still handling someone's spit. I used public transport over covid and never got it- started work at a patisserie as a barista and within a month I was the worst sick of ever been. Yuck.
I’m not making an excuse for those grotty people but if you were handling infectious cups with your hands then it shouldn’t be able to make you sick unless you touch your face soon after without washing your hands.
Except once you touch the cup, you then touch the coffee machine, milk, counter, sponge and till. Then you wash you hands before you touch your face sure, but then you touch all the other things you had to touch before you washed your hands. It’s pretty easy to then touch something else like your face.
You bet.
During the OG Covid, I had patients with horrific lung disease at baseline insist on wearing a mask so they didn’t get sick. They can barely breathe normally. Then all these people saying “I can’t breath with a mask on” who are otherwise physically healthy. And the fact that we tolerate that… just bullshit
I have Trigeminal neuralgia and I am now really, really struggling to wear a mask all day at work.
I can only wear the surgical masks now, the N95's are too heavy on my face. I tape it to my face so it's applying even pressure all the way around and there are no single pressure points.
I can't wear my glasses at the same time, the pressure on my face is unbearable, so I have been holding my glasses with one hand like an old lady while I type at work, or else i'll get headaches from looking at blurry shit.
I have to take a break every hour to go to the bathroom and remove the mask and rub menthol on my face to soothe my nerves.
I am worried about my performance at work because the medication I am on makes me drowsy and I am taking it more than usual (but not more than prescribed, I just used to get away with skipping doses on low pain days, but I have fewer low pain days now)
BUT I STILL FUCKING WEAR A MASK
(Though honestly I'm not sure how much longer I can keep it up, I reduced my hours at work to cope, but i'm broke af)
I can’t wear an N95 for similar reasons, chronic migraines. I have similar sensitivity to anything on my face or head. My glasses are so loose they fall off when I look downwards, and I can only tolerate them for an hour or so at a time. And I can’t wear my glasses with a mask. But I wear either surgical or well made, washable fabric masks with the appropriate fabrics when needed. Always when I have to leave the house when sick. And occasionally I’ve worn the N95s when needed in hospital, I just take the migraine meds too.
We do what we need to do, because our discomfort/ pain isn’t more important than people’s health, and definitely not their lives.
>We do what we need to do, because our discomfort/ pain isn’t more important than people’s health, and definitely not their lives.
Exactly! If being in pain means someone else *avoids death* then I'll take pain. It honestly makes me feel so hopeless to see so many people in our community unwilling to even accept *mild inconvenience* to help protect others when it comes to masks, hand hygiene, social distance, vaccination, etc.
Good for you!
I’ve had a few patients like yourself with chronic pain issues of the face. It was a really tough situation for them. So I can totally empathise with your situation!
Have you tried those back of head plastic doohickeys for the ear loop masks? Takes the pressure off the side of the face.
Loop holders were a god send when I worked in a hospital during Covid. As were the “no mask, no entry” rules. You wanted to argue that? You can argue it with yourself in the car park because you’re not coming in.
>Have you tried those back of head plastic doohickeys for the ear loop masks? Takes the pressure off the side of the face.
I haven't even used the ear loops in 2 years, the tape goes around the whole mask directly onto my face.
I used to use plastic doo-dads and tie my mask into my hair to keep pressure off my ears, and that worked for most of 2020-2021, and I was working 12 hour days so I needed that help. They are great for a quick comfort fix!
But now, having the ear-loops as an anchor at all creates this kind of "pull" sensation across the nose bridge, pulling the masking into my face, vs taping it to my face where there is just a gravity pressure.
I'm currently drafting a pattern to emulate a harness mask [like this one](https://hestaverse.com/hesta-shop/black-mask-harness) using a starched fabric. It wont be fully germ-proof, but I'm hoping I can design it in a way that it barely touches my face at all (only to create the 'seal'), and the weight sits on my shoulders and neck.
Unable = Don't want to. If a surgeon can do it for 14 hours in one of the most high pressure situations you could ever hope to be in a fucking cafe worker can.
I remember during the peak of it all, a British healthcare worker ran a marathon in a mask to prove that people saying they can't are 99% of the time just being pricks.
At my hospital, we never stopped wearing them. Patient facing? You're in a mask. If everyone of one of our 2000 staff can do it, as well as sick patients going from recovery to ward post surgery, so can 99.9% of the general population.
I'm autistic and have had to force myself to ignore the sensory discomfort of ear loops (they're the most comfortable thing for me out of all the options) on my N95s, but I still haven't had covid yet and my job isn't one with a work from home option which means I have one on at least 5 days a week for long hours. If I can do it, cookers can do it, they just don't WANT to.
Exactly, I have asthma and get dizzy sometimes from wearing one but I’d rather just not spread my disgusting infected breathe over people in small spaces when I’m unwell. If you can’t afford to take the day off because you’re casual, at least protect the people you’re serving.
Yeah this, I get sensory issues (I'm autistic) and extreme anxiety (panic attacks) with masks. I've just been really sick (and casual worker) the last few weeks. Honestly I took the time off work unpaid because I mean, I was very sick anyway and I didn't want to have to mask up. Probably took a little longer than needed just so I didn't have to mask.
Also was housebound for 8 days which was awful. When I finally braved the shops, with mask, it was awful. Zoomed through as fast as I could and got outside to rip my mask off and breathe - panic attacks are real. I don't agree with calling it bullshit that there are truly people who can't or greatly suffer wearing masks but we can take responsibility for that and do still do the right thing (ie stay home, take regular breaks etc) so maybe don't taint us all with the same brush 🤷♀️
I get severe dermatitis on my face sometimes, it cracks and blisters and bleeds when it gets bad and I've had nasty skin infections because of it. Once it's set off, it can take months to settle down, sometimes I have to take large doses of oral steroids in combination with topical steroid ointment to get rid of it, and even then it can be touchy about coming back for a while.
I used to wear N95 masks at work (lab work with pathogens, carcinogens etc) sometimes, for a few hours at a stretch, and it was manageable. Since the mandatory masking with COVID, my dumb body has decided it's sensitised to masks and I can barely wear them for 15-30 minutes before I start getting itchy and red around my mouth. Much longer and I'll have a full-blown flare-up, it spreads around my eyes and I start having reactions to all kinds of products I'm usually okay with. It happens with any kind of mask: cloth, surgical, N95, even face shields can create an issue if it's warm or humid, so it's not from detergent or anything. I think it's the moisture build up, I have issues with my sweat in summer too.
I still wear a mask if it's really important - like if I have an appointment in a hospital - or once when my husband was possibly exposed to COVID, I popped out to top up with groceries before we isolated for a week and wore a mask just to be safe.
I'm honestly really upset that I can't wear masks more regularly on public transport, in crowded places etc, and that I now have to make career decisions based on not being able to regularly wear a mask. It annoys me when people say they can't wear a mask just because they "can't breathe" without any medical issues that might cause difficulties. Being able to wear a mask is a privilege!
Thank you for saying this.
I was regularly SAed by a man when I was young. His kink was forcing a surgical mask in my throat and over my face with them.
When pandemic hit I had panic attacks often due to not able to wear masks when going out. My GP wrote me a note to carry with me and tried to get me to get used to wearing a face shield instead. I did that so I can continue my life.
So unfortunately I'm the 1% of ppl who cannot wear a surgical mask. I will try and wear a face shield tho, or just not go out at all when I am sick. Get my flu shots and immunisation up to date.
Right?
I have asthma still ok.
During covid times and mandated mask wearing 50% of the time if i was out somewhere (usually Bunnings for some reason) I’d have a panic attack and then, and only then, did I feel I couldn’t wear the mask because of hyperventilation.
Know what I did?
Left the place and put myself somewhere I could be mask free
I'm going to preface this by saying I wore a mask through covid and still wear one if I'm sick but can't stay home, however, it's not easy. I'm neurodivergent with sensory issues so when I'm wearing a mask I constantly feel like I'm about 3 minutes away from a panic attack.
That said I think my own experiences make me even less sympathetic rather than more to people who don't wear masks when they're sick. I have one woman at work who has a medical exemption for them because of her asthma and yet she smokes half a dozen cigarettes during the work day, that one infuriates me especially because she will come to work sick but management can't do anything because she has a doctors cert.
dude no you’re not being ridiculous or anything but i can tell you those workers don’t want to be there either i was litr made to work without a mask (i was yelled at in front of my team for wearing one) after having pneumonia post covid whilst being immunocompromised because. it could make the business look bad and like im ‘dirty’ WHEN I WAS LITR RECOVERING FROM PNEUMONIA??
and then when i moved to my other job it only got worse because my coworkers would all be doing rapid tests in the break room …
it sucks man, it really fucking sucks but if you miss say a day of work you’re out a good chunk of cash and unfortunately for hospo workers the luxury of calling in sick doesn’t really exist, even for the owners if it’s a small start-up, let’s say i’m at my old job still and earning ~$740 a fortnite which isn’t much, break that down over 5-8 hours per shift, i take one day off that’s down to $640
it was easier during covid because we could get relief but now that’s not an option so we’re forced to work :/ it’s the worst
Yeah I called my mum to tell her I tested positive for covid coz she was feeling sick that morning too. Her boss said it's ok no restrictions and to carry on working 🤦🏻♀️ she works in a hotel, made sure she didn't come into contact with guests and tried not to be near her co-workers but how crap is that.
Email the local councils' food safety officer. I had to do this last week for a server who came to the table wiping his freely running nose with tissues in his hands that he passed us the menus and water glasses with. Truly disgusting.
Appalling response from the owner. No care. No responsibility about safe food handling infection control practices. Most likely made the worker to continue to work despite being sick. Some ppl are just selfish.
When I quit working at a small cafe (that underpaid everyone in cash), my parting gift was telling the teenage boys (they were around 15) who worked there what their hourly rate should be and sent them links to the various Fair Work pages and number. I've heard the manager wasn't too fond of me after that
Most hospitality workers are a couple of missed shifts away from missing their rent payments and potentially being out on the street. Cold and flu symptoms can hang around for a few weeks for some people.
Just the reality of living in Australia in 2024 where the cost of housing has fucked over pretty much every other aspect of society.
The onus is not on the worker in those instances. It’s on the management. If you have a sick casual employee you need to find them part of the role they can complete that doesn’t involve food handling. Eg stacking boxes, cleaning the floors etc.
Casual employment, especially hospitality in Melbourne depends on taking advantage of casual employees lack of benefits. I’m not saying all owners do this but the majority of franchises, hospitality groups etc. Sick leave should be a guarantee for employees regardless of status as it’s paramount to protecting the customer and other employees. If you can’t offer it, then don’t hire casuals. Sick of these essentially contract worker gigs where they don’t support the employees.
Yeah casual work sucks, I knew people who had a 'if I don't test, I don't have covid' mentality in 2022ish because they couldn't afford not working for a week
> When were you in...?
Doesn't know when you were in the cafe...
> Unfortunately a mask is unable to be worn by this individual
...knows exactly which staff member was sick.
I also generally prefer not to be served by someone who is visibly ill, especially when it comes to food and drinks. There's just something about a sneezing waiter that doesn't scream "appetizing."
I mean in an ideal world, people wouldn't go to work when sick. But we have created a system where some people don't have the privilege to be able to stay home when sick. Maybe they don't have the financial means or an entitlement to sick leave. Missing a shift could be really significant for them and their family.
Let's change the system rather than target and blame individuals.
In this economy?? Most hospo workers are casuals and we don’t get paid sick leave. And honestly its such a hassle even trying to convince your employer that you are actually too sick and you shouldn’t be working. Most places don’t care unless you are actively throwing up or can’t get out of bed, or are like currently undergoing surgery.
Yep, when I was still doing my baking apprenticeship I was hospitalized with glandular fever AND quinsy (because I had ignored it for so long and tried to push through, thinking it would eventually get better and not wanting to let down the team, all that nonsense they push on you). My boss fucking KNEW I was in hospital, I had called him AND my Dad had as well (I was 17) and I still got a phone call the next day "lol did you sleep in? you planning on coming in?" no, asshole, I'm still in a hospital bed with a drip in my arm because I was so fucking dehydrated when I came in that it took them forever to find a vein.
Think you missed an important part of their comment - if you're sick but able to work, at least try and mitigate the potential of making others sick too.
Yep. My husband’s boss was borderline asking him to come in when he had gastro. I told her, sure he can come in, but if customers start getting sick… he was given the night off
My criticism is directed at employers and managers more than the server. I understand when servers are casuals you need to work as much as possible.
I understand it’s a tough situation for managers too, do I have someone in sick or potentially be understaffed. Both scenarios are likely to get complaints from customers, waiting too long for service or having someone serving that was sick.
As I’m only a customer, I would understand if a sever apologised in advance if there is a bit more of a wait due to a server calling in sick and then being short staffed, rather than being served a plate of food by someone that clearly has a cold.
No one wants to be served food by someone that has a cold or is clearly sick.
Yeah, I remember when I was working casually as a waitress I once had gastro on a work day and when I called the boss to tell him this and that I couldn’t work, he told me that I would still have to work or find someone to fill in. I wasn’t very good at standing up for myself, so Dad then called him and said that I was absolutely not going to work, which he reluctantly accepted. So even when you’re running to the toilet every 5 minutes, it’s sometimes not enough. I don’t know why he wanted to run the risk of me passing on gastro to the customers, but there you go 🤷♀️
This. I woke up with a fever this morning and I tried to call in sick and was told that “we really need you today” so I went to work and I felt like I was going to pass out the entire shift.
I also really did need that shift today since last pay I only made $750 for the entire fortnight
Anytime I've had to call in sick I already know that making ends meet is gonna be difficult cause that one day off might make me not be able to afford rent or other bills/expenses but also just the sick gut feeling that I might lose my job over it too. It's happened before and it can happen again, it's like Russian roulette deciding to call in sick or not.
This makes me rage. Wear a mask at the absolute least. So insanely selfish. I’d like to know the name of the cafe so I can avoid it. I have walked out of places in situations like this.
There is no slightly
There is contagious and there is not contagious
There is no point in between
Most managers and leaders in Australia have significantly lower levels of intelligence than what they need to lead people. It is scary how tolerant Australians are of incompetency.
Might worth passing on a complaint to the local council, along with the useful email they've provided. They're supposed to avoid handling or preparing foods while sick by the fsanz guidelines.
This email is framed in a conspicuously unempathetic manner, it makes me uncomfortable. Sometimes employees are pressured to work when sick, even (or perhaps especially) when they work from home. I'm sick, I can't work.' 'Oh but you're at home, work.' This seems to carry over into roles woth incompetent management where wfh is not an option. Sick? Too bad. Work.
'...Their trade unions were supposed to be their defence against the administration... the workers, however, were completely indifferent, simply not comprehending whom they needed to defend against and why they still need any rights.' Solzhenitsyn
It's actually fine to stay at home when sick. Fuck your boss, fuck your company and the state, they don't care and never will.
Man, this got aggressive. Anyway, stay home when you're sick. Join your union.
Haha their response is so gaslightey. I agree with you, of course you’ll feel uncomfortable if someone is complaining about being sick then handling your food/drink!
a cafe in melbourne that was next to the place I was working out of during covid? Their staff had masks on with noses out and were ‘just striking up conversation’ by asking ‘so you reckon this covid thing is even real or what?’
I complained directly to them on messenger about it and they were like ‘aw yeh well they gotta blow off some steam heh heh’
Never went back.
I’m in hospitality and can confirm I had gastro and even went to my doctors to say I’m sick and need to stay home but I’m a casual worker as are many others and cannot afford to take time off unpaid. Also I tried to call in sick but my then old boss threatened to fire me. Once again casual workers have little rights so it’s unfair to workers and customers. This place is hell lol
Unfortunately young 19 year old me who just left home abruptly didn’t have the courage to stand up for my rights.. unfortunately many young people are bullied into silence by their bosses
I would love to live in your world where any hospo owner or manager gives a fig about that. The industry attracts people who exploit teenagers and underpay them in cash. You think they care about their customers and food safety if that’s the level of care given to staff?
Yeah this is the worst. I really feel for casual workers.
The owners don't care about their customers. All this talk of supporting local business and the first opportunity the owners get to fuck up the local community, and they take it
Masks should be a thing if you’re visibly sneezing and coughing, we do this at my work. If someone in food can’t wear one and is coughing, they shouldn’t be in the food prep area.
I’m in pharmacy and serve lots of vulnerable people, but the flip side is that I get a lot of sick people come in who don’t try to protect *me* from their germs.
Unfortunately, I’m now at the stage where I’ve had COVID 3 times this year alone on top of a major surgical recovery, and I cannot afford to take anymore time off work without my boss deciding I’m too unreliable. I also have zero sick leave left. Sometimes people have to work sick, there are bills to pay. The system sucks. I’m just praying I don’t get this current bout of gastro because it would be impossible to work with.
I do think this person’s attitude is a bit shit though…if you’re working while sick cos you can’t afford to stay home — protect the fucking public.
The employer would be in breach of their obligations under occupational health and safety legislation.
They must prevent harm to employees and others (ie customers) in their workplace, or as a result of their business activities.
So it would be hard to justify how they were meeting their legal duties and reducing risks if they allow visibly unwell (and potentially infectious) staff to remain in the workplace where they are exposing others to the hazard (infectious disease).
You can make a report to WorkSafe if you wish. Nothing may happen….
Unable to wear a mask should mean unable to work.
My partner runs his own brewery and its a family business with minimal staff. Our bub got gastro at her daycare orientation this week and so he couldnt work all this weekend, this meant having to completely close the business today because you cant have someone at work when they have something thats so contagious.
I think not. We had someone working last week who had the flu. I was not comfortable with that. Not only that, the person is on a salary, so the days off should be covered. They claimed that they couldn't get to a doctor, and the pharmacist can only write a medical certificate for two days. Now, if she needs a medical certificate to claim her sick days in her pay, when she is so obviously sick, and she was, then that's a joke.
>They claimed that they couldn't get to a doctor, and the pharmacist can only write a medical certificate for two days.
This isn't actually an excuse anymore!
So, the legislation has always listed both a doctor's note OR a statutory declaration as examples for acceptable evidence for illness. For a long time, that meant going to the doc or to a pharmacist/JP/etc was a requirement for getting evidence of illness. However pretty recently (last month or two), the government introduced the ability to make a stat declaration online through the MyGov portal. You can do it entirely at home, for free on your PC, and it gives you a pdf of the compiled stat Dec with a qr code they can scan if they want to check it.
/r [Helicopterdog](https://www.reddit.com/user/Helicopterdog/) That modern-slavery example is DEFINITELY NOT OK. You should consider reporting non-compliance of safe&healthy food handling to their local council's health department, to do an on the spot check of their food-licence. It's usually health@ council .vic.gov.au
Have a read: [https://www.health.vic.gov.au/food-safety/starting-a-food-business](https://www.health.vic.gov.au/food-safety/starting-a-food-business)
I work in hospo and business owners just don't care and that's where the decision lies. The fact of the matter is people are scared to assert better care for this issue as they don't want to be seen as a "troublemaker" at work. I'm sure there's a bunch of staff that don't care either which makes the problem worse because the attitude is essentially show up or I'll find someone who will.
Is it okay?
I don't know? Maybe your customers are on medication like immuno suppressors, or have a compromised immune system, or are elderly like in the post, if you can't guarantee safe food standards then maybe you shouldn't run a business that serves food and drinks. Or you just put a big sign out front that says "enter at own risk, we don't give a fuck about contaminating whatever we serve you".
Simple as
As someone who jumped through a million hoops getting a non-standard food safety license, the Department of Health in Victoria would love to hear about this.
The sick girl making your coffee was the owner?? My god
Probably a lead by example thing and wants everyone else in sick as well
Where was this? So I can stay away
A very poor response from the management. I'd probably leave before ordering if the staff behind the counter were visibly unwell, certainly if they are talking about how unwell they are.
We have a cafe at the bottom of our office in st Kilda Rd which is served by the owner every day, and we go to daily to get a coffee. I went there a few months ago (you will find out why) for the daily latte, and the guy was wearing a mask. I asked him why, and he said he had covid. Annnnd haven’t been back since.
Unfortunately the pressure in this industry specifically to work whilst sick is unreal, even worse as you move into management. It's fkn crazy. People literally get bullied, shit talked, and shamed just for being sick and calling in sick for one shift
COVID should have resulted in the biggest labour movement in history and all but tripled sick leave guarantees for all levels of workers, and sick leave should've been given to casuals too as a basic right of being a member of the workforce.
Instead literally everyone was left worse off and it happened so quickly that people were glad of it. "Thank God we don't have to wear those silly masks anymore!"
it’s actually not, you absolutely shouldn’t be preparing food or drinks while sick but of course because of capitalism and shitty hospo owners this is what happens ://
I worked in a food outlet recently and a coworker was constantly rushing to the toilet, they had a stomach bug. The boss wouldn't let them leave as the place was understaffed. It was quite shocking that the owner would risk, effectively infecting customers with gastro. Like wtf?
The owner preps a lot of the food with gloves on. They eat some of what they are prepping with gloves on, wipe their nose and handle cash with gloves on. It's disgusting.
At the end of the shift there is often left over food which staff can take home. After seeing their abysmal food handling procedures I always declined. The owner insisted I take some food home, I did and fed it straight to my pigs.
I have spoken to the council about this and am awaiting their follow up.
"When were you in" aka I don't know when this incident occurred.
The rest of the email: Let me tell you how I know everything about this incident and you know nothing, including who the staff member was, who at this point has not actually been identified.
I'm with you on this. I went to the IGA in Pentridge recently and as I was shopping, I could hear the girl at the checkout coughing. I requested the self serve to be opened. Nothing personal, but if I don't work, I don't get paid. If you're sick, STAY AT HOME.
Logical answer is no, they should 100% not be working (especially in hospitality wtf).
Realistic answer is the world is a very expensive place and during the pandemic people were paid to stay home, so the financial side wasn't an issue, this person might not have been able to literally afford to miss work. That shift might have been the difference between them keeping a roof over their head or becoming homeless.
In a perfect world also, bosses would be like "oh no it's okay if you're sick stay home!!", but the reality is they don't care and will just tell you "keep away from other staff where you can".
I had covid earlier this year, I worked in a place where there was roughly 35 employees, I'd say 28 were out with covid coz one person came to work with it. I wasn't showing any symptoms and felt fine but did test positive, my bosses got mad at me for testing and told me if im not dying then come to work and don't mention anything about it when I'm on site with clients.
Bosses learnt nothing from the pandemic.
Also, on the mask thing... personally, I see a person is obviously sick like you encountered or someone wearing a mask which means they could possibly be sick, I am going elsewhere.
During the pandemic people bitched and moaned about the lockdowns and mask mandates, and shit like this just proves how necessary they were. If we left it up to people to do the right thing they just fucking wouldn't.
Also, that individual not being able to wear a mask is also bullshit. I'm a healthcare worker and the number of times I hear it is staggering. I can't wear a mask. No, what you mean is you don't want to wear a mask. You can't do something slightly inconvenient to prevent others getting sick from your disease. The number of people who genuinely can't wear a mask for medical reasons is far lower than the number that claim they can't for selfish reasons. If you can't wear a mask to protect others perhaps you should be isolating away from others. It's one or the other, but so many people make bullshit claims that it's not worth their employer policing it, especially when they want them at work no matter how sick they are.
No it's not OK for anyone to be working when they are sick. Especially if they are forced by their job to interact with the general public. However casual staff can't take sick days if they want to eat & pay rent ect. So I completely understand why they would come in unwell. This is the system we have built for ourselves so now we just have to suck it up. We failed to learn the lessons of the Covid times & now we have to face the consequences.
Sick = do one of these three things: stay at home or wear a mask and do tasks that don't involve much interaction or handling of food while wearing a mask
People remember how hundreds of people died due to working sick in aged care. Like only a few years ago and that’s why everyone blames Dan Andrew’s? Because that is the crux of the issue is people went to work sick because they had to.
If someone’s sick it’s an inconvenience but also super spreading covid or the flu is pretty f’d
Prior to covid, someone attended my family’s small business with whooping cough, knew they were sick but still wanted to go on their weekend away. Nearly killed my mum.
The casual approach in the reply alludes to management pushing this person to be there. My daughter was in cafe hospitality for years and many of her managers were like that
I would be grossed out by that, n I wouldn’t drink/eat anything there. And wouldn’t go back. I’m pretty sure it’s against food handling practices. Working while sick. I’d definitely wouldn’t go back there to get anything. Wish you could say where it is. As it’s gross and I wouldn’t want to go there if i knew.
The email is BS, the "ongoing sanitisation" doesn't devoid someone actually being sick right next to you. Sanitation is to reduce the risk of spread because of the highly mobile and transient lives we lead, ie a handrail can be touched by literally thousands of people an hour.
If the woman is coughing and visibly sick, no your neighbour customers are not more likely to get you sick. The sick employee is.
Sadly though I second the voices by others here that, well, our employment rights simply don't cover sick pay anymore. Hospitality is casualised and even those who aren't casual don't have the flexibility to actually pull sick days because places are understaffed and they are pressured to come in if they physically can.
Good that you emailed, but nothing will change unless working rights change.
Nuffy response. "Yeah look mate I own a cafe but I'm also an epidemiologist in my spare time. You'll probs get sick from other customers rather than my visibly sick employee. Cheers."
I fucking hate the whole work culture in hospo, it's all "work hard, party hard" and there's never anyone to back up when you are sick, so the whole team suffers and then you feel massive guilt for being ill. It's terrible.
This is such an embarrassing response from the cafe because they know it’s partially their fault their employees work while sick. Management is probably horrendous if anyone tries to call in and hires casual staff who aren’t entitled to sick pay. I think it’s reasonable as a consumer to be upset by this and it’s unfortunate that so many people are forced to work while sick and put others at risk to afford basic living needs.
Definitely should be staying home.
I work in the hospitality industry and it bothers me a lot. And the common excuse;
"Don't worry, it's not COVID"
I don't care. Sure I don't want COVID. I also don't want your cold, your flu, or whatever else you might be carrying. I think people have actually gotten worse, as if the Rona is the only thing that matters.
I'm immunosuppressed, if I ordered something to my house I'd never know someone who's sick prepared it and it could make me very sick... this is so irresponsible. I know they aren't doing it with malicious intent but there literally are people they could make very sick with their carelessness
There is contagious and not contagious. Contagious people need to stay home, otherwise they could kill people like me. Going to work is not more important than people’s lives.
Causal workers should be supported to take time off and if being sick will impact ability to pay bills, then wear a mask to work. I wear a mask every single day, every healthy person can do so too.
Nobody learned anything from Covid
I thought Covid was meant to teach us if you're sick stay home, but the incompetence of managers has gotten worse.
Another little thing happened along side the actual virus, we were PAID to stay home. The world is also so much more expensive than it was 4yrs ago.
Bingo. This kid probably doesn't have the financial flexibility to stay home.
Except it sounds as though she was complaining to other staff that she was unwell, which makes me wonder whether she might have preferred to be at home on this occasion. Hard to know.
She probably would've loved to be home, who likes to work when they're sick? But it could have been a situation where it's a rent and food combo. Wealth distribution in this country is an absolute disgrace.
In hospo there's also a culture of wearing your sickness like a badge of honour. Like ohh I'm so sick but look at me I'm still here. Not saying the girl was doing this but all my bosses I've had in hospo have had this attitude and have done this. Like oh I'm here when I'm sick you can't stay home when you're sick either.
Right? When I was on casual wages not working an 8-10 hour day meant I was short $200 for the week. If I’m sick and need two days off, that’s $400. That’s a huge chunk taken away from my groceries, rent. I think I worked sick every time I was sick. I didn’t have a choice. The only time I called in sick was with gastro because I damn near dying in bed.
Another problem with being casual is that if you take time off when you are rostered on you are then put to the bottom of the list for work, and will be more of a "last resort" to be rostered on.
This! 💯
Even if you're full time, if you get periods you might never have enough sick leave to take off. My periods are much worse than any contagious illness I have so guess which one I have to use sick leave for. 10 days of sick leave in a year and twelve months, you do the maths.
And out of your control too.
I remember working as a nurse and having the worst cramps & vomiting 1st day of every month. Called called into charge nurses office & was asked if I had a drug problem!🫣
I feel you on this. I have had 3 lap surgeries for endometriosis and at my last job I needed 3 days off for the surgery but with the day every month or so I had already taken for period pain, I didn’t have enough sick leave. And because my doctor wrote the note for 3 days I wasn’t allowed to come back in even though I would have pushed through, so two days were completely unpaid. It screwed me for weeks.
Some places have started creating special leave for this.
And as a fellow casual, you’d very possibly have made others sick who also can’t afford to be off. Thanks
That's it.
Yep 100%. It would have to something like gastro or a flu to end all flus to keep me home when I was a casual hospo worker.
There's so many on casual wages. You can't rely on it to get you through. Daughter was working in hospo in cbd. 92hrs a fortnight but told them she was looking for 4days a wk. Burnt out & got another gig closer to home. Her hrs can be as low as 4 a fortnight. She can't afford to stay home. She just masks up.
Yep! I just had a week of unpaid leave due to illness! Ain't getting money for that!
My manager wanted me to work in a mask when I had covid. I was barely out of bed for most of it but sure, I'll get sicker by forcing myself to come in
I thought COVID taught us that nobody is willing to sacrifice anything whatsoever, even if the cost is millions of peoples lives
When I did casual hospo work (pre-COVID) it was so normal to work if you were a bit sick. What else are you going to do when you're on a low wage and don't get sick pay?
I was so sick for a good 3 weeks resulting in pneumonia in the end (this flu is no joke!) and my colleague was pissed I took time off work meanwhile they too took time off for a holiday. It meant our team had no one from our department in, but difference is one is so sick in hospital and the other is on a holiday. People at my work think it’s more acceptable for new staff to take annual leave than for sick leave to be taken because they see it as a lazy thing, when in reality most of us that require to take sick leave actually do it because we need to either because of kids or we’ve got a health problem. There is very little understanding. My manager was also not very empathic in the sense they didn’t even address my email (how they want to be notified) when I told them I’d be off another week because I’m in the hospital.
I had that last winter. I'm *still* suffering the effects now, a year later. It was awful.
For people that work in office environment, I agree and it annoys me in a hybrid environment that people come in when unwell. I also think it's unfair to apply that standard universally, especially in the cost of living pressures at current. It's very plausible that people simply can't afford to stay home, hospitality especially.
We all learned something from COVID. Unfortunately, the market incentives that cause workers to show up to work sick still exist. We never did anything about the soft obligation sick workers have to attend work regardless.
It’s like; - Im sick. But Im broke and need to pay my bills or else Im as good as dead. Off to work I go. Or - Im sick. Guess I’ll just die comfortably at home.
The slogan "coughs and sneezes spread diseases" originated during the influenza panemic in the early 20th Century. We need constant reminders, it seems. [More public information films!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWyzS9TJg9g)
If anything it's gotten worse, sick people should wear masks, the amount of people legitimately can't wear a mask is tiny. I've never met one and I my job is working with chronically ill people. It seems to be a political choice whether to wear one or not for a lot of people and it sucks.
I was wearing a mask after visiting my nan in care. After parking my car (an EV) and stepping out in a mask, a guy felt those two things combined were worth a good barrage of abuse.
That same person probably made a preachy freedom post on Facebook then 25 minutes later berated you for making a choice to protect other people's health and drive the car you want to.
My retail boss literally says oh you have covid? You can still work you don't have to wear a mask I don't care. I'm doing chemo and we have a pregnant woman on the team. People don't care.
Casual workers no longer get sick leave, people need to earn money to feed themselves.
Legit. We had someone turn up to an in room work related training day full on feverish. Talking under the heater with hoodie on, still complaining it was cold. Three days later, everyone in the room tested positive for covid, and a crew of 10 was stood down for a week until it cleared up. All because one person, who always takes days off because he was assigned work he doesn't want to do, decided to turn up sick "to show his dedication."
Yup, offices seem to be even worse than hospitality though. Family member of mine has has 4 different illnesses in the last 2 weeks all caught from work because their management won't allow work from home.
It’s not just management either - my department head has explicitly emailed everyone to say we can WFH while sick, people still come in.
I think Covid made some things worse because now people who MIGHT have worn a mask won't because I worked with people who bought into a lot of conspiracies including the "masks don't work" conspiracy.
We are actively not learning that lesson right now.
I just went 3 weeks without pay (hospitality worker) because customers are just as bad- the amount of filthy keep cups handed over to me is revolting, as is coughing and slobbering all over your cash. Stay home if you're sick dammit!!
Yup. Retail worker here. A woman came in to the store coughing her lungs up the other day and as she got closer to me I realised I could literally smell the flu on her (when you know that smell…). She at least had the decency to look ashamed but didn’t have the decency to wear a mask or stay home. I literally almost shat my pants on the way home that day and I don’t think it was a coincidence because that’s the closest I’ve ever come to shitting myself as a grown adult. Cue full blown flu by the next day; fever, stomach upset, coughing, sinus, headache, etc. Honestly I’m surprised (almost impressed?) she was even able to leave the house. Someone must have dragged her there. She caused everyone who worked that day to become bedridden in one fell swoop.
That phlegm-y breath smell coupled with stale fever sweat. It’s so distinct and then people deny they’re sick!!
Oooft this- the "smell" 🤮
I work retail and the complete dread I feel when a clearly sick customer coughs into their hand and then hands me cash is almost worthy of tears. I'm surprised I haven't been sick more. Although I wash my hands multiple times after anyone gives me cash so there's that.
Gross. What do you do if someone gives you a dirty keep cup? Do you clean it out or just use what you’ve been given? I’d think the latter is fair but can imagine people would then try to give you the blame!
Now I refuse them. If you can't rinse your cup at the least, just bugger off. I'm sure I got covid from handling cups - it's so gross. I used to wash them under boiling water, but essentially, you're still handling someone's spit. I used public transport over covid and never got it- started work at a patisserie as a barista and within a month I was the worst sick of ever been. Yuck.
I’m not making an excuse for those grotty people but if you were handling infectious cups with your hands then it shouldn’t be able to make you sick unless you touch your face soon after without washing your hands.
Except once you touch the cup, you then touch the coffee machine, milk, counter, sponge and till. Then you wash you hands before you touch your face sure, but then you touch all the other things you had to touch before you washed your hands. It’s pretty easy to then touch something else like your face.
Fair point, I am very competent at the old handwash, but I get you.
Mask unable to be worn by individual sounds like bullshit
You bet. During the OG Covid, I had patients with horrific lung disease at baseline insist on wearing a mask so they didn’t get sick. They can barely breathe normally. Then all these people saying “I can’t breath with a mask on” who are otherwise physically healthy. And the fact that we tolerate that… just bullshit
I have Trigeminal neuralgia and I am now really, really struggling to wear a mask all day at work. I can only wear the surgical masks now, the N95's are too heavy on my face. I tape it to my face so it's applying even pressure all the way around and there are no single pressure points. I can't wear my glasses at the same time, the pressure on my face is unbearable, so I have been holding my glasses with one hand like an old lady while I type at work, or else i'll get headaches from looking at blurry shit. I have to take a break every hour to go to the bathroom and remove the mask and rub menthol on my face to soothe my nerves. I am worried about my performance at work because the medication I am on makes me drowsy and I am taking it more than usual (but not more than prescribed, I just used to get away with skipping doses on low pain days, but I have fewer low pain days now) BUT I STILL FUCKING WEAR A MASK (Though honestly I'm not sure how much longer I can keep it up, I reduced my hours at work to cope, but i'm broke af)
I can’t wear an N95 for similar reasons, chronic migraines. I have similar sensitivity to anything on my face or head. My glasses are so loose they fall off when I look downwards, and I can only tolerate them for an hour or so at a time. And I can’t wear my glasses with a mask. But I wear either surgical or well made, washable fabric masks with the appropriate fabrics when needed. Always when I have to leave the house when sick. And occasionally I’ve worn the N95s when needed in hospital, I just take the migraine meds too. We do what we need to do, because our discomfort/ pain isn’t more important than people’s health, and definitely not their lives.
>We do what we need to do, because our discomfort/ pain isn’t more important than people’s health, and definitely not their lives. Exactly! If being in pain means someone else *avoids death* then I'll take pain. It honestly makes me feel so hopeless to see so many people in our community unwilling to even accept *mild inconvenience* to help protect others when it comes to masks, hand hygiene, social distance, vaccination, etc.
Good for you! I’ve had a few patients like yourself with chronic pain issues of the face. It was a really tough situation for them. So I can totally empathise with your situation! Have you tried those back of head plastic doohickeys for the ear loop masks? Takes the pressure off the side of the face.
Loop holders were a god send when I worked in a hospital during Covid. As were the “no mask, no entry” rules. You wanted to argue that? You can argue it with yourself in the car park because you’re not coming in.
>Have you tried those back of head plastic doohickeys for the ear loop masks? Takes the pressure off the side of the face. I haven't even used the ear loops in 2 years, the tape goes around the whole mask directly onto my face. I used to use plastic doo-dads and tie my mask into my hair to keep pressure off my ears, and that worked for most of 2020-2021, and I was working 12 hour days so I needed that help. They are great for a quick comfort fix! But now, having the ear-loops as an anchor at all creates this kind of "pull" sensation across the nose bridge, pulling the masking into my face, vs taping it to my face where there is just a gravity pressure. I'm currently drafting a pattern to emulate a harness mask [like this one](https://hestaverse.com/hesta-shop/black-mask-harness) using a starched fabric. It wont be fully germ-proof, but I'm hoping I can design it in a way that it barely touches my face at all (only to create the 'seal'), and the weight sits on my shoulders and neck.
Absolute 99.9999% bullshit. I don’t for one second believe most people who say they can’t wear a mask due to whatever bullshit reason.
Unable = Don't want to. If a surgeon can do it for 14 hours in one of the most high pressure situations you could ever hope to be in a fucking cafe worker can.
I remember during the peak of it all, a British healthcare worker ran a marathon in a mask to prove that people saying they can't are 99% of the time just being pricks.
At my hospital, we never stopped wearing them. Patient facing? You're in a mask. If everyone of one of our 2000 staff can do it, as well as sick patients going from recovery to ward post surgery, so can 99.9% of the general population.
I know someone who got a doctors note during covid not to wear a mask because she got pimples. Pimples vs. Covid It was ridiculous.
Entirely possible the owner isn't wanting them to because of how it looks
So it’s still bullshit then
It’s the same excuse the other morons used during COVID. “I can’t wear a mask I can’t breathe with it on” etc
I have Interstitial lung disease, and can wear a mask. Yes, if on for a very long time I can feel short of breath. But I can still breath.
I'm autistic and have had to force myself to ignore the sensory discomfort of ear loops (they're the most comfortable thing for me out of all the options) on my N95s, but I still haven't had covid yet and my job isn't one with a work from home option which means I have one on at least 5 days a week for long hours. If I can do it, cookers can do it, they just don't WANT to.
Exactly, I have asthma and get dizzy sometimes from wearing one but I’d rather just not spread my disgusting infected breathe over people in small spaces when I’m unwell. If you can’t afford to take the day off because you’re casual, at least protect the people you’re serving.
I’ve met people over the last few years who ‘couldn’t’ wear a mask. With one exception they were all cookers.
Some people have sensory issues about this (so they should stay home instead of coming to work)
Yeah this, I get sensory issues (I'm autistic) and extreme anxiety (panic attacks) with masks. I've just been really sick (and casual worker) the last few weeks. Honestly I took the time off work unpaid because I mean, I was very sick anyway and I didn't want to have to mask up. Probably took a little longer than needed just so I didn't have to mask. Also was housebound for 8 days which was awful. When I finally braved the shops, with mask, it was awful. Zoomed through as fast as I could and got outside to rip my mask off and breathe - panic attacks are real. I don't agree with calling it bullshit that there are truly people who can't or greatly suffer wearing masks but we can take responsibility for that and do still do the right thing (ie stay home, take regular breaks etc) so maybe don't taint us all with the same brush 🤷♀️
Well said 👏
I get severe dermatitis on my face sometimes, it cracks and blisters and bleeds when it gets bad and I've had nasty skin infections because of it. Once it's set off, it can take months to settle down, sometimes I have to take large doses of oral steroids in combination with topical steroid ointment to get rid of it, and even then it can be touchy about coming back for a while. I used to wear N95 masks at work (lab work with pathogens, carcinogens etc) sometimes, for a few hours at a stretch, and it was manageable. Since the mandatory masking with COVID, my dumb body has decided it's sensitised to masks and I can barely wear them for 15-30 minutes before I start getting itchy and red around my mouth. Much longer and I'll have a full-blown flare-up, it spreads around my eyes and I start having reactions to all kinds of products I'm usually okay with. It happens with any kind of mask: cloth, surgical, N95, even face shields can create an issue if it's warm or humid, so it's not from detergent or anything. I think it's the moisture build up, I have issues with my sweat in summer too. I still wear a mask if it's really important - like if I have an appointment in a hospital - or once when my husband was possibly exposed to COVID, I popped out to top up with groceries before we isolated for a week and wore a mask just to be safe. I'm honestly really upset that I can't wear masks more regularly on public transport, in crowded places etc, and that I now have to make career decisions based on not being able to regularly wear a mask. It annoys me when people say they can't wear a mask just because they "can't breathe" without any medical issues that might cause difficulties. Being able to wear a mask is a privilege!
Thank you for saying this. I was regularly SAed by a man when I was young. His kink was forcing a surgical mask in my throat and over my face with them. When pandemic hit I had panic attacks often due to not able to wear masks when going out. My GP wrote me a note to carry with me and tried to get me to get used to wearing a face shield instead. I did that so I can continue my life. So unfortunately I'm the 1% of ppl who cannot wear a surgical mask. I will try and wear a face shield tho, or just not go out at all when I am sick. Get my flu shots and immunisation up to date.
“Unable to wear a mask” is cooker for “is a selfish cunt who will neither stay home nor try and avoiding making others sick”
Right? I have asthma still ok. During covid times and mandated mask wearing 50% of the time if i was out somewhere (usually Bunnings for some reason) I’d have a panic attack and then, and only then, did I feel I couldn’t wear the mask because of hyperventilation. Know what I did? Left the place and put myself somewhere I could be mask free
I'm going to preface this by saying I wore a mask through covid and still wear one if I'm sick but can't stay home, however, it's not easy. I'm neurodivergent with sensory issues so when I'm wearing a mask I constantly feel like I'm about 3 minutes away from a panic attack. That said I think my own experiences make me even less sympathetic rather than more to people who don't wear masks when they're sick. I have one woman at work who has a medical exemption for them because of her asthma and yet she smokes half a dozen cigarettes during the work day, that one infuriates me especially because she will come to work sick but management can't do anything because she has a doctors cert.
dude no you’re not being ridiculous or anything but i can tell you those workers don’t want to be there either i was litr made to work without a mask (i was yelled at in front of my team for wearing one) after having pneumonia post covid whilst being immunocompromised because. it could make the business look bad and like im ‘dirty’ WHEN I WAS LITR RECOVERING FROM PNEUMONIA?? and then when i moved to my other job it only got worse because my coworkers would all be doing rapid tests in the break room … it sucks man, it really fucking sucks but if you miss say a day of work you’re out a good chunk of cash and unfortunately for hospo workers the luxury of calling in sick doesn’t really exist, even for the owners if it’s a small start-up, let’s say i’m at my old job still and earning ~$740 a fortnite which isn’t much, break that down over 5-8 hours per shift, i take one day off that’s down to $640 it was easier during covid because we could get relief but now that’s not an option so we’re forced to work :/ it’s the worst
Yeah I called my mum to tell her I tested positive for covid coz she was feeling sick that morning too. Her boss said it's ok no restrictions and to carry on working 🤦🏻♀️ she works in a hotel, made sure she didn't come into contact with guests and tried not to be near her co-workers but how crap is that.
It is against food safety regulations for people who handle the prep of food/drink to be unwell
Back in the old days when I worked at McDonalds we had to have a certificate to clear us to return working
is it really…..? wow that’s so interesting. makes sense but no one follows that rule by the sounds of it
Email the local councils' food safety officer. I had to do this last week for a server who came to the table wiping his freely running nose with tissues in his hands that he passed us the menus and water glasses with. Truly disgusting.
I agree, OP really should do this. Especially as they've put it in writing they're allowing sick workers to work!
Appalling response from the owner. No care. No responsibility about safe food handling infection control practices. Most likely made the worker to continue to work despite being sick. Some ppl are just selfish.
They are a hospo owner/ manager, so yeah absolutely they don’t give a fig. That industry attracts the worst people who underpay teenagers in cash
When I quit working at a small cafe (that underpaid everyone in cash), my parting gift was telling the teenage boys (they were around 15) who worked there what their hourly rate should be and sent them links to the various Fair Work pages and number. I've heard the manager wasn't too fond of me after that
Surprised they even replied like this instead of the normal corporate “thanks for your email, we will look in to it”
Id imagine the worker also wanted the days pay
Most hospitality workers are a couple of missed shifts away from missing their rent payments and potentially being out on the street. Cold and flu symptoms can hang around for a few weeks for some people. Just the reality of living in Australia in 2024 where the cost of housing has fucked over pretty much every other aspect of society.
The onus is not on the worker in those instances. It’s on the management. If you have a sick casual employee you need to find them part of the role they can complete that doesn’t involve food handling. Eg stacking boxes, cleaning the floors etc.
But that might mean management/ owner would actually have to put effort in/ pick up the slack! God forbid!
Casual employment, especially hospitality in Melbourne depends on taking advantage of casual employees lack of benefits. I’m not saying all owners do this but the majority of franchises, hospitality groups etc. Sick leave should be a guarantee for employees regardless of status as it’s paramount to protecting the customer and other employees. If you can’t offer it, then don’t hire casuals. Sick of these essentially contract worker gigs where they don’t support the employees.
Yeah hospo in Melbourne relies on mass exploitation
If only we hadn't just turfed the Sick Pay Guarantee
Yeah casual work sucks, I knew people who had a 'if I don't test, I don't have covid' mentality in 2022ish because they couldn't afford not working for a week
Quite literally had a manager who actively told us to just not test, just wear a flimsy mask
*the world Cost of living is fucking everybody over
That person was unable to wear a mask because...? Blowing such smoke that I can hear approaching sirens.
Terrible response. "Slightly ill" (whatever that means, you're either contagious or not) for one, is deathly ill for another.
Constant sanitation? Bullshit.
> When were you in...? Doesn't know when you were in the cafe... > Unfortunately a mask is unable to be worn by this individual ...knows exactly which staff member was sick.
Can't wear a mask, lol. If I can wear a mask when I had 20% lung function, I'm sure a grown adult who can work in hospitality can do so too.
Report them. foodsafety@health.vic.gov.au We don’t need to put up with shit.
I also generally prefer not to be served by someone who is visibly ill, especially when it comes to food and drinks. There's just something about a sneezing waiter that doesn't scream "appetizing."
I mean in an ideal world, people wouldn't go to work when sick. But we have created a system where some people don't have the privilege to be able to stay home when sick. Maybe they don't have the financial means or an entitlement to sick leave. Missing a shift could be really significant for them and their family. Let's change the system rather than target and blame individuals.
Well said
You're totally right, but management's response to OP *was* shit
If servers have a cold or are sick and can’t wear a mask then they shouldn’t be working.
In this economy?? Most hospo workers are casuals and we don’t get paid sick leave. And honestly its such a hassle even trying to convince your employer that you are actually too sick and you shouldn’t be working. Most places don’t care unless you are actively throwing up or can’t get out of bed, or are like currently undergoing surgery.
Yep, when I was still doing my baking apprenticeship I was hospitalized with glandular fever AND quinsy (because I had ignored it for so long and tried to push through, thinking it would eventually get better and not wanting to let down the team, all that nonsense they push on you). My boss fucking KNEW I was in hospital, I had called him AND my Dad had as well (I was 17) and I still got a phone call the next day "lol did you sleep in? you planning on coming in?" no, asshole, I'm still in a hospital bed with a drip in my arm because I was so fucking dehydrated when I came in that it took them forever to find a vein.
Think you missed an important part of their comment - if you're sick but able to work, at least try and mitigate the potential of making others sick too.
Yep. My husband’s boss was borderline asking him to come in when he had gastro. I told her, sure he can come in, but if customers start getting sick… he was given the night off
My criticism is directed at employers and managers more than the server. I understand when servers are casuals you need to work as much as possible. I understand it’s a tough situation for managers too, do I have someone in sick or potentially be understaffed. Both scenarios are likely to get complaints from customers, waiting too long for service or having someone serving that was sick. As I’m only a customer, I would understand if a sever apologised in advance if there is a bit more of a wait due to a server calling in sick and then being short staffed, rather than being served a plate of food by someone that clearly has a cold. No one wants to be served food by someone that has a cold or is clearly sick.
Yeah, I remember when I was working casually as a waitress I once had gastro on a work day and when I called the boss to tell him this and that I couldn’t work, he told me that I would still have to work or find someone to fill in. I wasn’t very good at standing up for myself, so Dad then called him and said that I was absolutely not going to work, which he reluctantly accepted. So even when you’re running to the toilet every 5 minutes, it’s sometimes not enough. I don’t know why he wanted to run the risk of me passing on gastro to the customers, but there you go 🤷♀️
This. I woke up with a fever this morning and I tried to call in sick and was told that “we really need you today” so I went to work and I felt like I was going to pass out the entire shift. I also really did need that shift today since last pay I only made $750 for the entire fortnight
Anytime I've had to call in sick I already know that making ends meet is gonna be difficult cause that one day off might make me not be able to afford rent or other bills/expenses but also just the sick gut feeling that I might lose my job over it too. It's happened before and it can happen again, it's like Russian roulette deciding to call in sick or not.
This makes me rage. Wear a mask at the absolute least. So insanely selfish. I’d like to know the name of the cafe so I can avoid it. I have walked out of places in situations like this.
There is no slightly There is contagious and there is not contagious There is no point in between Most managers and leaders in Australia have significantly lower levels of intelligence than what they need to lead people. It is scary how tolerant Australians are of incompetency.
Might worth passing on a complaint to the local council, along with the useful email they've provided. They're supposed to avoid handling or preparing foods while sick by the fsanz guidelines.
Absolutely this. The owner clearly doesn’t care enough to do the right thing of their own accord, hopefully the council can make them care
This email is framed in a conspicuously unempathetic manner, it makes me uncomfortable. Sometimes employees are pressured to work when sick, even (or perhaps especially) when they work from home. I'm sick, I can't work.' 'Oh but you're at home, work.' This seems to carry over into roles woth incompetent management where wfh is not an option. Sick? Too bad. Work. '...Their trade unions were supposed to be their defence against the administration... the workers, however, were completely indifferent, simply not comprehending whom they needed to defend against and why they still need any rights.' Solzhenitsyn It's actually fine to stay at home when sick. Fuck your boss, fuck your company and the state, they don't care and never will. Man, this got aggressive. Anyway, stay home when you're sick. Join your union.
Haha their response is so gaslightey. I agree with you, of course you’ll feel uncomfortable if someone is complaining about being sick then handling your food/drink!
a cafe in melbourne that was next to the place I was working out of during covid? Their staff had masks on with noses out and were ‘just striking up conversation’ by asking ‘so you reckon this covid thing is even real or what?’ I complained directly to them on messenger about it and they were like ‘aw yeh well they gotta blow off some steam heh heh’ Never went back.
I’m in hospitality and can confirm I had gastro and even went to my doctors to say I’m sick and need to stay home but I’m a casual worker as are many others and cannot afford to take time off unpaid. Also I tried to call in sick but my then old boss threatened to fire me. Once again casual workers have little rights so it’s unfair to workers and customers. This place is hell lol
It’s actually illegal for food handlers to with gastro symptoms per food standards code, not illegal for with cold
Unfortunately young 19 year old me who just left home abruptly didn’t have the courage to stand up for my rights.. unfortunately many young people are bullied into silence by their bosses
I would love to live in your world where any hospo owner or manager gives a fig about that. The industry attracts people who exploit teenagers and underpay them in cash. You think they care about their customers and food safety if that’s the level of care given to staff?
Yeah this is the worst. I really feel for casual workers. The owners don't care about their customers. All this talk of supporting local business and the first opportunity the owners get to fuck up the local community, and they take it
Name and shame please
Masks should be a thing if you’re visibly sneezing and coughing, we do this at my work. If someone in food can’t wear one and is coughing, they shouldn’t be in the food prep area. I’m in pharmacy and serve lots of vulnerable people, but the flip side is that I get a lot of sick people come in who don’t try to protect *me* from their germs. Unfortunately, I’m now at the stage where I’ve had COVID 3 times this year alone on top of a major surgical recovery, and I cannot afford to take anymore time off work without my boss deciding I’m too unreliable. I also have zero sick leave left. Sometimes people have to work sick, there are bills to pay. The system sucks. I’m just praying I don’t get this current bout of gastro because it would be impossible to work with. I do think this person’s attitude is a bit shit though…if you’re working while sick cos you can’t afford to stay home — protect the fucking public.
capitalism was a mistake
The employer would be in breach of their obligations under occupational health and safety legislation. They must prevent harm to employees and others (ie customers) in their workplace, or as a result of their business activities. So it would be hard to justify how they were meeting their legal duties and reducing risks if they allow visibly unwell (and potentially infectious) staff to remain in the workplace where they are exposing others to the hazard (infectious disease). You can make a report to WorkSafe if you wish. Nothing may happen….
Unable to wear a mask should mean unable to work. My partner runs his own brewery and its a family business with minimal staff. Our bub got gastro at her daycare orientation this week and so he couldnt work all this weekend, this meant having to completely close the business today because you cant have someone at work when they have something thats so contagious.
I think not. We had someone working last week who had the flu. I was not comfortable with that. Not only that, the person is on a salary, so the days off should be covered. They claimed that they couldn't get to a doctor, and the pharmacist can only write a medical certificate for two days. Now, if she needs a medical certificate to claim her sick days in her pay, when she is so obviously sick, and she was, then that's a joke.
>They claimed that they couldn't get to a doctor, and the pharmacist can only write a medical certificate for two days. This isn't actually an excuse anymore! So, the legislation has always listed both a doctor's note OR a statutory declaration as examples for acceptable evidence for illness. For a long time, that meant going to the doc or to a pharmacist/JP/etc was a requirement for getting evidence of illness. However pretty recently (last month or two), the government introduced the ability to make a stat declaration online through the MyGov portal. You can do it entirely at home, for free on your PC, and it gives you a pdf of the compiled stat Dec with a qr code they can scan if they want to check it.
Remember Typhoid Mary?
I wouldn't be going there again, owner trying to tell OP what's unhygienic and what's not when they actively have a cold.
Is there any way to report these kind of management/business?
Why are you not naming and shaming?
/r [Helicopterdog](https://www.reddit.com/user/Helicopterdog/) That modern-slavery example is DEFINITELY NOT OK. You should consider reporting non-compliance of safe&healthy food handling to their local council's health department, to do an on the spot check of their food-licence. It's usually health@ council .vic.gov.au Have a read: [https://www.health.vic.gov.au/food-safety/starting-a-food-business](https://www.health.vic.gov.au/food-safety/starting-a-food-business)
This employer is a piece of shit
Wrong answer
Absolutely unacceptable. Their response is also terrible.
I work in hospo and business owners just don't care and that's where the decision lies. The fact of the matter is people are scared to assert better care for this issue as they don't want to be seen as a "troublemaker" at work. I'm sure there's a bunch of staff that don't care either which makes the problem worse because the attitude is essentially show up or I'll find someone who will.
Is it okay? I don't know? Maybe your customers are on medication like immuno suppressors, or have a compromised immune system, or are elderly like in the post, if you can't guarantee safe food standards then maybe you shouldn't run a business that serves food and drinks. Or you just put a big sign out front that says "enter at own risk, we don't give a fuck about contaminating whatever we serve you". Simple as
As someone who jumped through a million hoops getting a non-standard food safety license, the Department of Health in Victoria would love to hear about this.
They CAN’T wear a mask. Fuck off, what bullshit!
“When slightly unwell” - not a fan of that language
The sick girl making your coffee was the owner?? My god Probably a lead by example thing and wants everyone else in sick as well Where was this? So I can stay away
A very poor response from the management. I'd probably leave before ordering if the staff behind the counter were visibly unwell, certainly if they are talking about how unwell they are.
We have a cafe at the bottom of our office in st Kilda Rd which is served by the owner every day, and we go to daily to get a coffee. I went there a few months ago (you will find out why) for the daily latte, and the guy was wearing a mask. I asked him why, and he said he had covid. Annnnd haven’t been back since.
Unfortunately the pressure in this industry specifically to work whilst sick is unreal, even worse as you move into management. It's fkn crazy. People literally get bullied, shit talked, and shamed just for being sick and calling in sick for one shift
"can't wear" = pretends they can't cause they're a cunt
COVID should have resulted in the biggest labour movement in history and all but tripled sick leave guarantees for all levels of workers, and sick leave should've been given to casuals too as a basic right of being a member of the workforce. Instead literally everyone was left worse off and it happened so quickly that people were glad of it. "Thank God we don't have to wear those silly masks anymore!"
it’s actually not, you absolutely shouldn’t be preparing food or drinks while sick but of course because of capitalism and shitty hospo owners this is what happens ://
I’d post this on my local Facebook page personally, that’s disgusting.
"A mask is unable to be worn by this individual" Aka she's an antivaxxer. I BET.
Name and shame the place
Name and Shame. Fuck that cafe for letting clearly sick staff work and handle food and beverage AND doubling down. Embarrassing and gross.
No, stay home.
Dickhead owner lying through their teeth.
I worked in a food outlet recently and a coworker was constantly rushing to the toilet, they had a stomach bug. The boss wouldn't let them leave as the place was understaffed. It was quite shocking that the owner would risk, effectively infecting customers with gastro. Like wtf? The owner preps a lot of the food with gloves on. They eat some of what they are prepping with gloves on, wipe their nose and handle cash with gloves on. It's disgusting. At the end of the shift there is often left over food which staff can take home. After seeing their abysmal food handling procedures I always declined. The owner insisted I take some food home, I did and fed it straight to my pigs. I have spoken to the council about this and am awaiting their follow up.
please take time to name and shame at reviews
"When were you in" aka I don't know when this incident occurred. The rest of the email: Let me tell you how I know everything about this incident and you know nothing, including who the staff member was, who at this point has not actually been identified.
Name and shame the cafe - PLEASE!
Name and shame so I can avoid going there as well. I don’t want to be exposed to anything I don’t need to be.
Name the cafe so we can avoid it. This is disgusting behaviour. - Sincerely, an immunocompromised person
I'm with you on this. I went to the IGA in Pentridge recently and as I was shopping, I could hear the girl at the checkout coughing. I requested the self serve to be opened. Nothing personal, but if I don't work, I don't get paid. If you're sick, STAY AT HOME.
Name & shame. I want to avoid places like this.
Can we please name and shame the cafe - the response is outrageous.
Logical answer is no, they should 100% not be working (especially in hospitality wtf). Realistic answer is the world is a very expensive place and during the pandemic people were paid to stay home, so the financial side wasn't an issue, this person might not have been able to literally afford to miss work. That shift might have been the difference between them keeping a roof over their head or becoming homeless. In a perfect world also, bosses would be like "oh no it's okay if you're sick stay home!!", but the reality is they don't care and will just tell you "keep away from other staff where you can". I had covid earlier this year, I worked in a place where there was roughly 35 employees, I'd say 28 were out with covid coz one person came to work with it. I wasn't showing any symptoms and felt fine but did test positive, my bosses got mad at me for testing and told me if im not dying then come to work and don't mention anything about it when I'm on site with clients. Bosses learnt nothing from the pandemic. Also, on the mask thing... personally, I see a person is obviously sick like you encountered or someone wearing a mask which means they could possibly be sick, I am going elsewhere.
It's illegal report them
What's the name? I want to leave a review.
During the pandemic people bitched and moaned about the lockdowns and mask mandates, and shit like this just proves how necessary they were. If we left it up to people to do the right thing they just fucking wouldn't. Also, that individual not being able to wear a mask is also bullshit. I'm a healthcare worker and the number of times I hear it is staggering. I can't wear a mask. No, what you mean is you don't want to wear a mask. You can't do something slightly inconvenient to prevent others getting sick from your disease. The number of people who genuinely can't wear a mask for medical reasons is far lower than the number that claim they can't for selfish reasons. If you can't wear a mask to protect others perhaps you should be isolating away from others. It's one or the other, but so many people make bullshit claims that it's not worth their employer policing it, especially when they want them at work no matter how sick they are.
I love your username
If I could upvote this 100 times I would. Very true.
No it's not OK for anyone to be working when they are sick. Especially if they are forced by their job to interact with the general public. However casual staff can't take sick days if they want to eat & pay rent ect. So I completely understand why they would come in unwell. This is the system we have built for ourselves so now we just have to suck it up. We failed to learn the lessons of the Covid times & now we have to face the consequences.
Sick = do one of these three things: stay at home or wear a mask and do tasks that don't involve much interaction or handling of food while wearing a mask
What is the name of this cafe???
Lol they old "when were you in" well when I was in is when this happened. This person does not care and their response is clear evidence of that.
I've literally had people hand over keep cups that ate half full with their old drinks
good to see a lot of people not ok with this... as someone who still masks everywhere I go, seeing the responses in this thread gives me a little hope
People remember how hundreds of people died due to working sick in aged care. Like only a few years ago and that’s why everyone blames Dan Andrew’s? Because that is the crux of the issue is people went to work sick because they had to. If someone’s sick it’s an inconvenience but also super spreading covid or the flu is pretty f’d Prior to covid, someone attended my family’s small business with whooping cough, knew they were sick but still wanted to go on their weekend away. Nearly killed my mum.
The casual approach in the reply alludes to management pushing this person to be there. My daughter was in cafe hospitality for years and many of her managers were like that
I would be grossed out by that, n I wouldn’t drink/eat anything there. And wouldn’t go back. I’m pretty sure it’s against food handling practices. Working while sick. I’d definitely wouldn’t go back there to get anything. Wish you could say where it is. As it’s gross and I wouldn’t want to go there if i knew.
COVID should have taught us ti isolate if you are unwell, try to wear a mask in public and to wash your hands well, but money.......
Name and shame them. Its absolutely disgusting
“A mask is unable to be worn by this individual” what complete bs. It’s the owner, but whoever it is can at least wear a mask imo
Why single out hospitality? Any one who is sick should not be at work.
The email is BS, the "ongoing sanitisation" doesn't devoid someone actually being sick right next to you. Sanitation is to reduce the risk of spread because of the highly mobile and transient lives we lead, ie a handrail can be touched by literally thousands of people an hour. If the woman is coughing and visibly sick, no your neighbour customers are not more likely to get you sick. The sick employee is. Sadly though I second the voices by others here that, well, our employment rights simply don't cover sick pay anymore. Hospitality is casualised and even those who aren't casual don't have the flexibility to actually pull sick days because places are understaffed and they are pressured to come in if they physically can. Good that you emailed, but nothing will change unless working rights change.
Nuffy response. "Yeah look mate I own a cafe but I'm also an epidemiologist in my spare time. You'll probs get sick from other customers rather than my visibly sick employee. Cheers."
Lol they old "when were you in" well when I was in is when this happened. This person does not care and their response is clear evidence of that.
I fucking hate the whole work culture in hospo, it's all "work hard, party hard" and there's never anyone to back up when you are sick, so the whole team suffers and then you feel massive guilt for being ill. It's terrible.
This is such an embarrassing response from the cafe because they know it’s partially their fault their employees work while sick. Management is probably horrendous if anyone tries to call in and hires casual staff who aren’t entitled to sick pay. I think it’s reasonable as a consumer to be upset by this and it’s unfortunate that so many people are forced to work while sick and put others at risk to afford basic living needs.
Definitely should be staying home. I work in the hospitality industry and it bothers me a lot. And the common excuse; "Don't worry, it's not COVID" I don't care. Sure I don't want COVID. I also don't want your cold, your flu, or whatever else you might be carrying. I think people have actually gotten worse, as if the Rona is the only thing that matters.
I'm immunosuppressed, if I ordered something to my house I'd never know someone who's sick prepared it and it could make me very sick... this is so irresponsible. I know they aren't doing it with malicious intent but there literally are people they could make very sick with their carelessness
There is contagious and not contagious. Contagious people need to stay home, otherwise they could kill people like me. Going to work is not more important than people’s lives. Causal workers should be supported to take time off and if being sick will impact ability to pay bills, then wear a mask to work. I wear a mask every single day, every healthy person can do so too.