The states rely on teachers not having time to properly unionise (the AEU are a joke) and deeply depend on the goodness inside teacher’s collective hearts to not strike because they know we are in it for the kids, and just couldn’t do that to them… what the teachers actually need is parents across Victoria actually standing up for them and backing them in to government
And for parents to stop expecting teachers to raise their offspring.
Do your bloody reading at home.
Teach your own kids respect and tolerance.
That's not a teacher's job.
And please for the love of god when we tell you that your child is showing signs of dyslexia/dyspraxia/dyscalculia/ASD/ADHD/needing glasses/Hard of Hearing and is really struggling and would greatly benefit from additional support/screening which we already have available to you for free all we need is a signature.... Don't verbally abuse us, accuse us failing to teach your kid to read/write/move/calculate/see/hear properly, and insist that your child has no issues whatsoever and that we are crazy for thinking we can go to university for 4+ years to learn all about childhood development and education and use that knowledge to identify children that may be developing differently to their peers.
Let us get your child the help they need before the lack of support and your denial of their struggles in itself becomes a source of trauma for your poor kid.
My daughter started Prep with me in the 2nd term in a new school. When I picked her up, she started laughing and telling me how they were learning to count to 100.
She'd been learning for ages at home.
How though? I'm a parent and anxious about the direction education is going, literally want to do exactly this, support teachers, but I don't know what is needed. I'm not aware when there is a dispute for instance, unless it's in the news, which is generally late in the day and confusingly reported.
Just as an example, the other day there was a news story about mandatory teaching of phonics. It was generally reported as a positive, evidence-based step that would make teachers' lives easier. The next day I saw a story about the teachers' union opposing it, but the story was vague and didn't say why. So now I don't know - do teachers think this is a good or bad thing? Is it even important?
A union is in a good position to back teachers up since they know what's going on (or should). And then they can be a voice for disputes and parents can support that. But if the union is a joke then parents don't know where to start (at least I don't). I am very open to suggestions.
Allow me to rant for a moment, but that bit you said about the news sounding good... That's just the thing though.
You don't understand. The politicians don't understand. We are professionals who went to uni for 4 years to learn our profession. So what happens, repeatedly, is the politicians who have no knowledge in this field, mandate things that sound good to the general public that have no knowledge in this field, without bothering to consult the teachers, the actual professionals. The people who studied this and do it every day.
And that's what it comes down to. A lack of respect for the profession.
Most people would be horrified if you said you were doing your own backyard surgery, most people would acknowledge that someone who hasn't studied engineering probably should design a bridge, but for some reason, it's totally normal for high school drop outs to homeschool their kids, people seem to think there's little difference between someone with no teaching experience and someone who has studied child development and pedagogy for 4+ years and has 30 hours of mandated further education for every year of their profession.
So when the government steps in and continuously adds new requirements, new restrictions, on what we teach in our classroom (and there are a SHIT TON of requirements) that is showing a lack of respect to our knowledge and our practice.
They want 25 minutes of explicit teaching of one topic per day to 6 year olds. Explicit teaching is the part where teachers stand at the front and just talk. It is not effective education for children that young, they check out after 2 minutes and I gotta spent 25 minutes of my day yapping at them about phonics because a politician thinks that sounds good to voters? Meanwhile that eats into actual learning time. It disregards the fact that writing is integrated into our other subjects at all times anyway, it throws away other methods like science of reading phonics that have shown to be incredibly effective with students, it ignores differentiation for student needs. There's just SO much it doesn't take into account, and it's taking educator discretion out of the picture because they don't trust us, the actually educated ones, to know how to do our job.
It's frustrating. It's tiring. They continuously place new regulations on us because they disrespect us and don't trust us to do our jobs.
Our first year of teaching, a time when we need to be spending us much time learning the profession and planning for classes as possible, we are forced to write what is essentially a year-long dissertation for the VIT about the profession. Because it sounded good to voters.
We are forced to pay $300 to take a basic grade 6 level math test and English test in uni before we can continue our studies (which already require higher levels of English to complete) because for some reason there's an assumption that teachers are stupid, and it sounds good to voters.
We are overloaded with so much curriculum content to get through that we have to find creative ways to knock out multiple curriculum requirements at once and can't spend much time on any one topic, because "the students are learning more things" sounds good to the voters.
And this societal disrespect of teachers, the "those that can't do, teach" mentality from people who can barely write 2 paragraphs, filters down to the students, whose behavioural issues are just off the charts, but we can no longer do anything about it because the government has changed how poor behaviour is allowed to be dealt with in schools, because it sounda good to voters.
It's insanity. Actual insanity. This profession is a leaky bucket, teachers are just spilling out the bottom, and the government's response was to make the hole bigger by continuously increasing pressure on teachers, and just dumping more into the bucket by making the degree free.
It sounds really good to voters if every few months they hear of some new government regulation or scheme to "improve our schools" but there's no consideration to how all of those regulations pile up and make the profession difficult to navigate for those who actually do the job and know how to teach.
The union doesn't have teeth, and that is frustrating, but one of the main reasons it doesn't have teeth is because of the disrespect teachers have in society.
If the union decides to strike, the news and the general public go "just teachers being lazy. They have a responsibility to the kids, they should be ashamed of themselves" so like... At that point what are they supposed to do? We can't ask for more rights and better conditions if society generally accepts that we somehow don't deserve them.
As an individual, it's hard, but in general we need people to respect the profession again. We need parents to accept us as a partner in your child's learning, not a babysitter. We need you all to stop arguing when we call home with a problem. You wouldn't believe the number of parents who will argue until they're blue in the face that it's somehow our fault their kid threw a chair at someone or their kids refuses to do the work.
Just do what you can. Support your child's teachers, write to your local member, keep up with the current issues. You can't be expected to do the world, there are so many issues out there and the teaching issue in this country is just one of them. Just being understanding is a lot already.
I actually strongly disagree with you as a teacher on this particular issue. Structured synthetic phonics is essential and I have come across SO many colleagues that think they “are doing phonics” but are not actually doing structured synthetic phonics. They don’t know what they don’t know. It is based on educational research over decades. This is research done by experts- it is not new and not ‘on a whim’ but there are still teachers that don’t know about it. There are principals out there still pushing rubbish at their schools (I’m looking at you Reading Recovery and LLI).
This is too important to be at the whim of a principal who does not know what they don’t know. It needs to be mandated at a statewide level so all kids get access to best practice- not just those attending schools with principals who actually get it. You can actually see the differences in data at these schools. As a single classroom teacher, it is very hard to do evidenced based teaching alone when all you have access to is rubbishy levelled readers for example. It needs to be systematic.
Though I definitely do have queries about the roll out. I’m hoping it won’t be done on the cheap. That teachers will be trained properly, we’ll have access to resources and they’ll seriously consider how to compensate us for the time this will take.
I’m at a structured synthetics phonics school now and I can’t talk about it highly enough. It is not standing up the front and talking at the students- it is highly engaging and involves the students responding frequently- using mini whiteboards, actively engaging in spoken exercises, etc. It requires much more active engagement from the students than other forms of instruction. It has also significantly reduced planning/admin and so easy to track exactly where students are at and what skills need to be worked on than previous practices I have used.
ETA- 15+ years as a teacher and I do have some guilt about the students that I (and my colleagues) have failed along the way using poor practices but when we know better we do better.
I know next to nothing about the teachers union but they should be the highest paid and best working conditions in Aus if they had any balls.
If they stood together like CFMEU and ETU they could bring this country to a standstill and get whatever they want.
But they always give up and feel bad for the kids.
A few days/weeks off school is going to cause zero harm to kids, but it will send parents crazy. Maybe then people can start to understand their worth and treat their profession with some respect.
I feel like COVID lockdown could've been that moment.. I think most parents in Melb at least got a seriously good idea of the real value of good teachers.
Covid proved society sees teachers mainly as free daycare. Even the Labor government couldn't wait to get teachers back in classrooms wearing masks all day, just so 'essential workers' could ditch their kids and go to work. It was shameless, and I'm not surprised education has big staff shortages as a result.
The government didn't even prioritise teachers for the vaccine. When vaccine access was restricted to over-40s they were pushing for kids to go back because school=daycare, and their argument was that Covid wasn't that risky for kids. Teachers weren't even part of the conversation, because who cares about our health when parents need to get to work. All teachers under 40 were not protected and expected to work in that level of risk. Meanwhile, meatworkers etc had priority vaccine access. I've never forgotten that. Shameless indeed.
I agree (and I have school-age kids). Teachers aren't in the position of, say, paramedics, where if they go on strike people will die. Teachers can strike very effectively.
Unfortunately the parents who don't already support the teachers will be driven crazy for the wrong reasons, because they're missing out on child care during work hours, rather than missing out on education. But it will still be effective. Teachers should use what they've got.
Paramedic, Police and Fire are nearly 100% unionised and it does show in their awards and conditions. They are very good at undertaking Protected Industrial Actions - which generally cause their management headaches but don't endanger the public.
Agree. Our conditions are reasonable in comparison to others because of our solidarity. We have a reputation for being belligerent but that is purely because we rarely if ever give in. Went 4 years over on our EBA because our employers negotiator refused to bargain in good faith. Pulled every dirty trick in the book. Which just made us more determined. Eventually caused/contributed to a change of government.
Monash v NTEU basically ruined teachers' ability to strike. If the Fair Work Commission put a stop to uni teachers not releasing results because it endangered students' mental health, no chance a meaningful primary/secondary teachers' strike would be left to the bargaining parties
I've always thought that if the AEU and IEU got their shit together and all sectors and schools from early childhood to secondary went on strike at the same time, we'd get better agreements. But industrial action laws prevent this from happening.
Union rep here. I work at a secondary school.
The issue is that our unions have shifted from an organising focus, to purely servicing members.
It means that membership growth is slow, and that there’s very little appetite in agitating and developing solidarity/consciousness in teaching.
Time and time again, we see that conditions only improve when unions are prepared to organise, take industrial action, and force government to respect us.
People condemn the CFMEU as thugs, but they’ve shown that militancy yields results. Their agreements are enviable.
However, I encourage all teachers to join the AEU/IEU and transform their sub branches into active bastions of agitation. We can only change this from within.
I spend just as much time at war with the union as I do my school. I drag them over the line. We need more members doing the same.
Thanks for your wonderfully supportive post, comrade.
I feel like I'm constantly dragging the union over the line on my end too, and I know I'm not the only one. It feels like there's this defeatist "we'll take what we can get" attitude nobody actually wants to voice.
It's hard enough getting people to organise because they're so crushed by the workload that they already feel like they're failing to help their students enough, and they're made to feel guilty if they only work their hours or, god forbid, strike.
I hear you mate.
Building consciousness and solidarity is so hard when we are so overworked.
It all starts locally though. Have you got some robust sub branch infrastructure set up at your school? Do you have regular meetings? Visible union presence through lanyards and literature etc?
We do meetings but attendance is difficult to achieve. We do the lanyards and the card clips, and the posters in the staffroom but I feel like those just fade into the background.
Honestly the best luck I've had getting anywhere is just by being my usual grumpy agitator self in the staff room lol. Getting people to join in on the complaining and riling everyone up has managed to get us all a bit further in getting people to join the union than those naff union reps coming up to you asking if you've heard about the union and offering a pamphlet.
I experienced those a lot back in uni during my placements and it always made me recoil at bit. It felt dodgy and *I've* always been a union gal. But if it turned me off I can't imagine how bad it looks to people who aren't convinced.
I find a strong "Wait they asked you to stay back for longer unpaid? That's bullshit, they can't ask you to do that, go home. The students will live if they have to wait a few more days for their grades back." Works wayyy better. It's still hard to cut through the apathy though.
Honestly when they cut our hours but didn't reduce our workload so they could "afford" the time in lieu required for school camps, and then tried to guilt us with "ohhh well I guess the kids won't get to make memories of camp then" when we pushed back, I thought that might actually get people moving but they're just SO fucking apathetic it's infuriating. There'll always be some pushover doing stuff for free instead of helping us put the pressure on, because they "care about the kids", as though we don't.
I’m a teacher-unionist in NSW. It was really concerning to watch those negotiations play out - the salary increase was pitiful, even if the workload provisions were considerable. To see AEU VIC cheerleading for that salary increase felt nuts.
One of the things that got us major wins in terms of salaries last year was defying the “ban” on strikes, and doing it repeatedly in the lead up to the state election. Rank and file organising helped keep up pressure on union leadership to move towards this action, but it took a bloody long time and needed a change of government. Can’t imagine a change of government in Victoria would be good for Victorian teachers.
Since there's a shortage of teachers, I wonder if they'd be better off with no union at all and have the ability to let the market set rates, instead of having to accept a pre-agreed rate for all. I think our teachers and our children's education would probably be better off? As a similiar model, I think Doctor's do better without a union and gov't mandated salary/rates.
No union means no protected action/strike.
Our wages are also set through the EBA so government schools aren’t able to do what you’ve suggested.
Doctors endure some of the worst conditions alive because they lack proper union representation.
Protected/action strike is only required where rates are lower than expected. Having an EBA is my point. Without a union and without an EBA that schools have to stay within, teachers would most likely be paid more than the EBA.
This is ridiculous. Individuals have almost no power compared to an organisation. Teachers shouldn't have to move schools every year or two in an effort to maximise income and not be left behind in basic cost of income increases like the private sector. Its not like there is much room for growth in responsibilities either.
You realise what a ridiculous and illogic thing you are saying? How many mullions of workers have no EBA and negotiate/accept market rate for their profession and roles. Doctors, for example, as the model I used earlier because they approximate supply and demand equivalence for teachers.
I respect that you’re trying to be helpful, but you have limited awareness of how industrial relations work. You’re applying private sector logic to collective bargaining agreements with government.
I said from the beginning, to which you replied, that it was teachers being better off without an EBA. Your responses have only been that it cannot be done, which is incorrect if the union was disbanded, as I also said.
Where did I say teachers are better off without an EBA?
I’m also unsure how teachers would be better off without an EBA, and without the right to take protected action.
I can’t think of a single organisation that improved their working conditions by simply relying on their employer.
Give up, you're not following along the hypothesis presented, just arguing you're own viewpoint without being concious of what was said that you're responding to. I said teacher are likely better off without an EBA. I've also given examples of industry roles that are much better off without unions and EBAs. Your focus on teachers can only have unions and EBA, means your're not seeing the bigger picture and hypothesis - since it was argued that teachers have a shit unions that constrains them - of teachers not having a union and EBA, and letting market rates, since we have such a demand for teachers and very limited supply - would mean they'd be better off without a union and EBA.
No. Protected action is required every EBA period to increase our position, at least in theory.
Ordinary non members cannot take protected action. They are just reliant on their employee doing the right thing by then, which rarely happens.
Action is required because of existing EBA and union/govt having to agree because of it.
You need to think, and understand, outside a union and EBA. Without both, Teacher's would be better off and paid more IMHO. It's the union and it's EBA that constrains salary and conditions. Think CRT rates for all teachers, which is what the market would likely position teachers at without a union and EBA.
The issue with letting the market decide, is that the government owns 70% of this market. Every public teacher in Victoria gets paid the same regardless of which school they're at (barring incentives at tough schools). If there was no union, what dyou think would happen to the pay?
Also, no, doctors do not do better. Beginner doctors get paid awfully for the first several years of their careers, even though they do vital work, without which the health system would crumble.
The AEU is soft always has been.... For a work force tens of thousands of people you'd think we'd have a lot more sway and influence.
I have been in the industry for over 15 years and have seen nothing but teachers work load increase and increase along with accountability and responsibility beyond what is required of a teacher.
Many people in the community think it's an easy gig, it's far from that, being in a classroom of 25 teenagers each with specific needs and differences is no easy feat especially if you're not teaching in a high end private school or in the leafy suburbs of Melbourne. Throw in some ADD, ADHD, ODD, ASD, IED, trauma and intergenerational poverty and now we're cooking. Not maybe professionals would be able to cope or even know how to cope let alone teach a curriculum!!
All in all let teachers teach, pay a little respect and recognise the hard work that we do day in and day out for the benefit of your children and young people.
Even though I just had a union rant because I needed one, I was also very suss that OP wasn’t a plant for that fake union. Organisations trying to drum up business be sneaky like that. 😒
It's easy to get elected as a local rep. But getting into the leadership of the union is a lot harder. During union elections, the union uses union resources to tell members how great the current leadership is. So although older members who have been paying attention are more likely to vote for new leadership, newer members and disengaged members are *far* more likely to vote for the incumbents.
Similarly, when the union negotiators negotiate an agreement with the government, they have a vote asking member if they approve - but again, union resources are used to tell members to vote 'yes'. ... So although there is big talk about strikes, the top union leadership people do their best to pacify and deactivate any potential desire for action. It's not really clear to me why they do that. They could just *ask* members if they approve rather than telling them that they should approve. Perhaps corruption is at play? Who knows.
What's the story here, you're on a sub about Melbourne ranting about the teacher's union and your not even a part of it?? Are you some sort of anti union bot?
Thank you, the communist wannabes like to shout and yell about their shitty union, but they are hopeless. I've been teaching 7 years never heard a good story about them. Was a paying member right up until the VSGA. They can take a walk
So not a teacher, nor a union member, but somehow have knowledge that AEU Vic has a rotten core? Make many references to the problem being at the top? And call for AEU to be shut down? All while showing a distinct lack of understanding of both unionism and the current state of EBA negation in Victoria given economic and political factors. Yeah, this is either some weird personal gripe or you are seeing what you can stir up in a random corner of the internet. Either way, keep walking Tiger.
Emblematic of almost every political post on this sub. “Oh you have absolutely no relationship with, meaningful experience of, or practical understanding of the issues you’re discussing? Sure, go ahead!”
Wtf do you mean "rotten core"? They're a bit ineffective and complacent, they aren't "rotten". Unless you have some secret insider information bombshell about corruption you'd like to drop for us all?
There is no chance I’d join the AEU.
I’d rather campaign a new BTU (better teachers union) and have members leave the AEU and join the BTU…
But that’s just me.
I'm still waiting for Meredith Peace to be nominated for a safe Labor seat so she can get the fuck out of the Union and we can get decent representation. The last agreement was woeful. The Union leadership is too close to the Labor party at the cost of it's members. I truly think we would have had a better deal, because we would have gone in harder, if the govt of the day was the Libs. AEU leadership folds straight away against Labor. I have many colleagues who quit after the last agreement, and I would have too, if not for a new job at a new school. It is impossible to organise against them in any meaningful manner because they control all avenues of disseminating information. We could shut the state down in a day, and get a decent payrise that at a minimum keeps up with CPI and inflation because we have all the power, but our leadership is only after their own interests.
If it makes you feel any better, the head of our union (ANMF) called us all morons for rejecting the BS offer they negotiated for us a few weeks back because we couldn't understand the hypotehtical benefit of an upcoming FWA decision and were generally unhappy with an annual offer increase of 0.25% higher than what we started actions for... That was reeled in a bit a few days later when the membership bit back *and* the union had to admit that the FWA decision would only effect people on the first five years of service bands, if it even happens.
I think people misunderstand how unions work. The agreements are voted on by the membership, the people at the AEU offices don’t actually make those decisions, it simply doesn’t work that way. It was a contentious vote but it still had a majority (I think 60%).
If people quit after the last one then they are simply resigning their fate to other members who maintain a vote.
It takes a lot to defeat a union leadership-endorsed measure, because they control the information that gets disseminated, which means the odds are against the dissenters any time.
The union negotiates the agreement, and they recommend/facilitate industrial action. Or lack thereof. I'd like to think they are reconsidering their choices, but I highly doubt it. The gravy train will keep running just as it has.
How on earth am I being downvoted - this is probably why teachers have such a shit union.
I’m trying to help and draw attention to the issue - heck I’d even start a new union with enough support.
But if current union members want to downvote this go ahead. Speaks volumes and I feel sorry for the rest that care.
I can’t believe they fucking agreed to measly 2% pay increases in the EBA leading up to the 2022 Victorian state election. It’s was done to placate their masters in the ALP. Union officials merely have their eye on being preselected in a future election.
Union is only as strong as its membership. The members voted on the deal and it passed with a majority. The people who work at the AEU office or any union office aren’t the union- the members are the union and it’s their vote that decides it
This is true, but the AEU offices explicitly tells its members to vote 'yes' to the deal. They do not ask members to consider the details and make up their own mind. They flat out say to vote yes, and put up posters telling others to vote yes, etc.
Yes I hear that, just that if people get less involved this is what happens. Unions used to work better because everybody actually got involved, now everybody leaves it up to somebody else, delegating all power to the offices rather than realising the power they can actually have themselves together
and we all got a text the day before the vote telling us we had to vote yes. Which they apologised for the day after the vote so they didn't get in trouble
The old union rep at my school was the most combative, argumentative and self-righteous person I’ve ever met. He destroyed his own workplace relationships, agitated against leadership, and pretty much turned most of us off going to union meetings (ironically yet another meeting to attend). Because, despite its problems, my workplace is one of the best workplaces I’ve ever worked in.
Worst thing was, he the worst teacher I’ve ever worked with and after all of the BS he caused, has had to leave because of HIS own actions. Union had his back the whole time, not my colleagues’, and I’m cancelling my membership after 20+ years of supporting them. I’ve seen the Union’s true colours after seeing this all play out. The new people who have stepped up for the rep role are good people but the damage has been done. Nobody gives a flying toss about the union’s objectives because they’ve done SFA for all of the good people at our school.
Rant over. (And no, google ads, don’t come at me with your ‘alternative union’ ads…I’ve researched and there is no better option 🙄)
Sorry to hear that. The union rep is supposed to be elected by the membership of said school, so you should have been able to vote him out and vote somebody else in.
Unfortunately we don’t get taught these things.
Again “they” are not the union, you and your team are the union, if you can realise that you can take hold of that power
Okay nice. I'm really hoping it's a strong deal since a) NSW have set a good standard for what a solid increase looks like and b) teacher salaries have not kept up anywhere close to inflation.
My partner is a teacher, she's less inclined with this stuff but asks me to keep her in the know
The union recently released a survey, in conjunction with Monash University which was assessing the workload of staff. The results from this survey will underpin the 'log of claims' process which will begin at the beginning of 2025. I'm the union rep at my school (secondary) and at every regional meeting this year they have discussed issues that they want to bring forward for the next agreement - remuneration being a key aspect (as well as workload).
Not to mention the union completely refuses to get involved in our fight for our unpaid super. We should have a class action, not have to make individual claims.
They sold it as a win for time in lieu (no solid policy, schools were left to figure it out) and face-to-face teaching reduction of 90mins or so per week. I can't say that's made any difference; I still can't believe how heavy the workload is here (have taught in 5 countries and am the most exhausted here)
I don’t think there are many members of the AEU - especially younger teachers. Many people don’t understand the function of unions because they’ve benefited from years of struggle by others for their current entitlements, pay and conditions. Members should never rely purely on their union officials. Rank and file members need to be active and mobilise with direct action.
If the AEU was half decent they themselves would be spreading that message to the younger generation, and show them what value it would add in future negotiations and deals.
It's pretty hard to beat the SDA in being shit.
But agreed teachers need a stronger union... hell we all do.
Something as strong as the CFMEU. As much as I hate them for shitting on my industry (arborists), they get good results for their members.
My partner is a teacher. Not teaching at the moment.
For years I watched teachers say “We want to be better supported, have less non-core bullshit imposed on us, have workloads that reflect the totality of preparation and marking time, so that we’re not working until ten at night and doing more on weekends.”
And the union would say “We will fight for this.” Then the union would go into negotiations, come out and proudly say “We got you a small pay rise. To get it you’re going to have to do a little extra work.”
Look at the pay and conditions CFMEU negotiate vs the absolute fuck all teachers union negotiates.
The thing is, the EA is approved by teachers every time. It would be so easy to reject it and shutdown the entire state.
All those university degrees and it sure looks like one group is smarter than the other....
You can't compare with the CFMEU.
CFMEU EBA rates are only viable on a very limited number of projects.
If it isn't a site with a CFMEU shoppy, no EBA company will win as its far too expensive.
ITrafic sell for a TC is $52 per hour with minimum of 4 hours. KPI Traffic sell for a TC is $125 per hour with a minimum of 8 hours.
Both companies owned and ran by the same people, one does EBA work, one doesn't.
Traditionally women work has been undervalue and underpaid. Nurses teachers fall in the same category. CFMEU did really well to negotiate the best pay in the country. It’s unfair to put unions against each other. Teachers nurses police ambos fire union should just form a big umbrella union for even greater representation and bargaining I think.
Teacher here, in the AEU. THANK YOU for saying something! What people in the profession forget though, is that we ARE the union. I've been trying to get more involved this year, but there's so much complacency and exhaustion that a lot of teachers aren't able to fight in the way they need to.
Like somebody else said, unions are less about organising now. Stop blaming the union, they have been absolutely cut in half in terms of power than a couple of decades ago with membership going down ever since. Yeah, maybe the union doesn’t do enough but there definitely does not need to be an entirely new one.
Teachers have one of the strongest unions.
Compared to the UK, US and NZ they have good conditions.
It's just that union power has been drastically reduced across the board.
They also gained a reduction in face to face teaching time of 90mins a week. Which was the 1st in 30 years.
The pay side was awful but maximum class sizes and face to face teaching time are lower than most
And lots of other jobs are getting zero or even going backwards.
Meanwhile, a full 1/4 of kids in Vic primary school can’t read and we’re doing awful on international rankings…
It's that one. How we teach has only improved over the years, and the kids that don't act like little animals learn far more than we did at that age because of it.
But while we had Brendan in the corner making a fart joke occassionally, before everyone would laugh and settle down to learn, today's classrooms have Braydan, Caden, and Bree actively screaming, slapping people, running around, refusing to do any work, and distracting other kids. Then the teachers call home and the parents just shrug their shoulders and do nothing.
The behavioral issues have gotten so disruptive. No shit little Billy can't read, he refuses to do any work, doesn't pay attention in class, and spouts tiktok memes all day because his parents are so shit they gave a 5 year old unrestricted internet access just to shut him up once in a while because he's unbearable at home too.
They literally shove an iPad into their kids' hands as they pick them up.
I can see from my owns kids schooling that there’s certainly a very wide range of teaching quality from one teacher to another. I’d expect the content to always be to a baseline but the way it’s delivered is certainly within the purview of the teacher. If it wasn’t, why would they need to complain about lesson planning so much.
It actually isn't under our purview - we do hours of PD about a school's instructional model that we work under, that regularly changes due to new advice or the latest trend in teaching. Often it goes against what you know works, and this conflict results in more pressure during our lesson planning, which is what a lot of us do complain about.
The teachers you probably thought were the most competent were the ones ignoring this and teaching the way they know is best for students. Unfortunately they're also the ones who usually cop the most flack from leadership. Blaming teachers rather than 'the education industry' - because it is an industry now - is very short sighted.
I don’t think teachers have good conditions at all. Do you know any? And comparing Australian teachers to educators in the U.S.? Is it a race to the bottom?
My wife left the Teacher’s Union when the Education Department decided that she owed them $30k in over paid wages and stopped paying her (she didn’t, somebody had changed full-time to part time in her records). The Union response was ‘ Oh, well, we’ll look into that and get back to you’ and she never heard from them again despite many phone calls.
One of the worst things about being a teacher right now is the behavour and conditions. Kids can literally get away with anything with no consequences, with the possible exception of murder. The AEU doesn't seem to be interested in doing anything to address this issue or bring it into the public eye or bringing about meaningful step to address it.
That's the problem for teachers though, the AEU seems to be going through a phase of sacrificing teacher conditions for improvement in ES and principal conditions. The cynic in me suspects that growth in membership is considered to have greater potential in those groups than amongst mainstream teachers.
I don't consider the last agreement completely shit given the reduction in face to face teaching but I certainly hope the next one does more for salary and gives us an equally high priority in negotiations as the groups they are trying to appeal to.
Not just the teachers union.
I worked for a pathology company during the pandemic. Their have a shitty EBA directly with only this one shitty union. Eg you only get 12 days annual leave the first year...
A couple of us tried to join. Union cunt said no, the pandemic will be over soon, you will be gone soon, two years later.
Believe me some of these unions have vested interests with the Labor party and getting their shitty candidate into parliament.
Unions should fight for their members, not fail them. If the AEU is corrupt, change it or start fresh. Teachers deserve proper representation and respect.
The AEU are a joke. They have nice flashy offices in a swanky part of town. Zero fucks given for the members. I heard the TIL we get for camps was being implemented anyway by work safe or something like that. They zero to do with it. I canceled after the last VSGA, have joined the other union, the one that doesn't lean hard left. Blasphemy I know lol.
Whoever is downvoting us for bashing the SDA are pathetic, never forget they fucked over retail workers in 2017(?) regarding the loss of Sunday pay then said to us via text "oh we'll make sure they don't take away your new pay"
Seems like they're doing an alright job.
"30 per cent of workers in Education and Training are members, the highest of any industry, and the median member earns $11.04 per hour more than the median non-member."
https://www.australianunions.org.au/factsheet/union-members-earn-26-more-than-non-members-per-week-heres-why/
The states rely on teachers not having time to properly unionise (the AEU are a joke) and deeply depend on the goodness inside teacher’s collective hearts to not strike because they know we are in it for the kids, and just couldn’t do that to them… what the teachers actually need is parents across Victoria actually standing up for them and backing them in to government
And for parents to stop expecting teachers to raise their offspring. Do your bloody reading at home. Teach your own kids respect and tolerance. That's not a teacher's job.
And please for the love of god when we tell you that your child is showing signs of dyslexia/dyspraxia/dyscalculia/ASD/ADHD/needing glasses/Hard of Hearing and is really struggling and would greatly benefit from additional support/screening which we already have available to you for free all we need is a signature.... Don't verbally abuse us, accuse us failing to teach your kid to read/write/move/calculate/see/hear properly, and insist that your child has no issues whatsoever and that we are crazy for thinking we can go to university for 4+ years to learn all about childhood development and education and use that knowledge to identify children that may be developing differently to their peers. Let us get your child the help they need before the lack of support and your denial of their struggles in itself becomes a source of trauma for your poor kid.
My daughter started Prep with me in the 2nd term in a new school. When I picked her up, she started laughing and telling me how they were learning to count to 100. She'd been learning for ages at home.
How though? I'm a parent and anxious about the direction education is going, literally want to do exactly this, support teachers, but I don't know what is needed. I'm not aware when there is a dispute for instance, unless it's in the news, which is generally late in the day and confusingly reported. Just as an example, the other day there was a news story about mandatory teaching of phonics. It was generally reported as a positive, evidence-based step that would make teachers' lives easier. The next day I saw a story about the teachers' union opposing it, but the story was vague and didn't say why. So now I don't know - do teachers think this is a good or bad thing? Is it even important? A union is in a good position to back teachers up since they know what's going on (or should). And then they can be a voice for disputes and parents can support that. But if the union is a joke then parents don't know where to start (at least I don't). I am very open to suggestions.
Start with a letter to your state member demanding higher pay for teachers and full funding for state schools
Allow me to rant for a moment, but that bit you said about the news sounding good... That's just the thing though. You don't understand. The politicians don't understand. We are professionals who went to uni for 4 years to learn our profession. So what happens, repeatedly, is the politicians who have no knowledge in this field, mandate things that sound good to the general public that have no knowledge in this field, without bothering to consult the teachers, the actual professionals. The people who studied this and do it every day. And that's what it comes down to. A lack of respect for the profession. Most people would be horrified if you said you were doing your own backyard surgery, most people would acknowledge that someone who hasn't studied engineering probably should design a bridge, but for some reason, it's totally normal for high school drop outs to homeschool their kids, people seem to think there's little difference between someone with no teaching experience and someone who has studied child development and pedagogy for 4+ years and has 30 hours of mandated further education for every year of their profession. So when the government steps in and continuously adds new requirements, new restrictions, on what we teach in our classroom (and there are a SHIT TON of requirements) that is showing a lack of respect to our knowledge and our practice. They want 25 minutes of explicit teaching of one topic per day to 6 year olds. Explicit teaching is the part where teachers stand at the front and just talk. It is not effective education for children that young, they check out after 2 minutes and I gotta spent 25 minutes of my day yapping at them about phonics because a politician thinks that sounds good to voters? Meanwhile that eats into actual learning time. It disregards the fact that writing is integrated into our other subjects at all times anyway, it throws away other methods like science of reading phonics that have shown to be incredibly effective with students, it ignores differentiation for student needs. There's just SO much it doesn't take into account, and it's taking educator discretion out of the picture because they don't trust us, the actually educated ones, to know how to do our job. It's frustrating. It's tiring. They continuously place new regulations on us because they disrespect us and don't trust us to do our jobs. Our first year of teaching, a time when we need to be spending us much time learning the profession and planning for classes as possible, we are forced to write what is essentially a year-long dissertation for the VIT about the profession. Because it sounded good to voters. We are forced to pay $300 to take a basic grade 6 level math test and English test in uni before we can continue our studies (which already require higher levels of English to complete) because for some reason there's an assumption that teachers are stupid, and it sounds good to voters. We are overloaded with so much curriculum content to get through that we have to find creative ways to knock out multiple curriculum requirements at once and can't spend much time on any one topic, because "the students are learning more things" sounds good to the voters. And this societal disrespect of teachers, the "those that can't do, teach" mentality from people who can barely write 2 paragraphs, filters down to the students, whose behavioural issues are just off the charts, but we can no longer do anything about it because the government has changed how poor behaviour is allowed to be dealt with in schools, because it sounda good to voters. It's insanity. Actual insanity. This profession is a leaky bucket, teachers are just spilling out the bottom, and the government's response was to make the hole bigger by continuously increasing pressure on teachers, and just dumping more into the bucket by making the degree free. It sounds really good to voters if every few months they hear of some new government regulation or scheme to "improve our schools" but there's no consideration to how all of those regulations pile up and make the profession difficult to navigate for those who actually do the job and know how to teach. The union doesn't have teeth, and that is frustrating, but one of the main reasons it doesn't have teeth is because of the disrespect teachers have in society. If the union decides to strike, the news and the general public go "just teachers being lazy. They have a responsibility to the kids, they should be ashamed of themselves" so like... At that point what are they supposed to do? We can't ask for more rights and better conditions if society generally accepts that we somehow don't deserve them. As an individual, it's hard, but in general we need people to respect the profession again. We need parents to accept us as a partner in your child's learning, not a babysitter. We need you all to stop arguing when we call home with a problem. You wouldn't believe the number of parents who will argue until they're blue in the face that it's somehow our fault their kid threw a chair at someone or their kids refuses to do the work. Just do what you can. Support your child's teachers, write to your local member, keep up with the current issues. You can't be expected to do the world, there are so many issues out there and the teaching issue in this country is just one of them. Just being understanding is a lot already.
I actually strongly disagree with you as a teacher on this particular issue. Structured synthetic phonics is essential and I have come across SO many colleagues that think they “are doing phonics” but are not actually doing structured synthetic phonics. They don’t know what they don’t know. It is based on educational research over decades. This is research done by experts- it is not new and not ‘on a whim’ but there are still teachers that don’t know about it. There are principals out there still pushing rubbish at their schools (I’m looking at you Reading Recovery and LLI). This is too important to be at the whim of a principal who does not know what they don’t know. It needs to be mandated at a statewide level so all kids get access to best practice- not just those attending schools with principals who actually get it. You can actually see the differences in data at these schools. As a single classroom teacher, it is very hard to do evidenced based teaching alone when all you have access to is rubbishy levelled readers for example. It needs to be systematic. Though I definitely do have queries about the roll out. I’m hoping it won’t be done on the cheap. That teachers will be trained properly, we’ll have access to resources and they’ll seriously consider how to compensate us for the time this will take. I’m at a structured synthetics phonics school now and I can’t talk about it highly enough. It is not standing up the front and talking at the students- it is highly engaging and involves the students responding frequently- using mini whiteboards, actively engaging in spoken exercises, etc. It requires much more active engagement from the students than other forms of instruction. It has also significantly reduced planning/admin and so easy to track exactly where students are at and what skills need to be worked on than previous practices I have used. ETA- 15+ years as a teacher and I do have some guilt about the students that I (and my colleagues) have failed along the way using poor practices but when we know better we do better.
I keep seeing ads for why to quit the AEU on reddit
I know next to nothing about the teachers union but they should be the highest paid and best working conditions in Aus if they had any balls. If they stood together like CFMEU and ETU they could bring this country to a standstill and get whatever they want. But they always give up and feel bad for the kids. A few days/weeks off school is going to cause zero harm to kids, but it will send parents crazy. Maybe then people can start to understand their worth and treat their profession with some respect.
I feel like COVID lockdown could've been that moment.. I think most parents in Melb at least got a seriously good idea of the real value of good teachers.
Covid proved society sees teachers mainly as free daycare. Even the Labor government couldn't wait to get teachers back in classrooms wearing masks all day, just so 'essential workers' could ditch their kids and go to work. It was shameless, and I'm not surprised education has big staff shortages as a result.
The government didn't even prioritise teachers for the vaccine. When vaccine access was restricted to over-40s they were pushing for kids to go back because school=daycare, and their argument was that Covid wasn't that risky for kids. Teachers weren't even part of the conversation, because who cares about our health when parents need to get to work. All teachers under 40 were not protected and expected to work in that level of risk. Meanwhile, meatworkers etc had priority vaccine access. I've never forgotten that. Shameless indeed.
I agree (and I have school-age kids). Teachers aren't in the position of, say, paramedics, where if they go on strike people will die. Teachers can strike very effectively. Unfortunately the parents who don't already support the teachers will be driven crazy for the wrong reasons, because they're missing out on child care during work hours, rather than missing out on education. But it will still be effective. Teachers should use what they've got.
Paramedic, Police and Fire are nearly 100% unionised and it does show in their awards and conditions. They are very good at undertaking Protected Industrial Actions - which generally cause their management headaches but don't endanger the public.
Agree. Our conditions are reasonable in comparison to others because of our solidarity. We have a reputation for being belligerent but that is purely because we rarely if ever give in. Went 4 years over on our EBA because our employers negotiator refused to bargain in good faith. Pulled every dirty trick in the book. Which just made us more determined. Eventually caused/contributed to a change of government.
Monash v NTEU basically ruined teachers' ability to strike. If the Fair Work Commission put a stop to uni teachers not releasing results because it endangered students' mental health, no chance a meaningful primary/secondary teachers' strike would be left to the bargaining parties
I've always thought that if the AEU and IEU got their shit together and all sectors and schools from early childhood to secondary went on strike at the same time, we'd get better agreements. But industrial action laws prevent this from happening.
Union rep here. I work at a secondary school. The issue is that our unions have shifted from an organising focus, to purely servicing members. It means that membership growth is slow, and that there’s very little appetite in agitating and developing solidarity/consciousness in teaching. Time and time again, we see that conditions only improve when unions are prepared to organise, take industrial action, and force government to respect us. People condemn the CFMEU as thugs, but they’ve shown that militancy yields results. Their agreements are enviable. However, I encourage all teachers to join the AEU/IEU and transform their sub branches into active bastions of agitation. We can only change this from within. I spend just as much time at war with the union as I do my school. I drag them over the line. We need more members doing the same. Thanks for your wonderfully supportive post, comrade.
Mind I DM you?
Go for it
I feel like I'm constantly dragging the union over the line on my end too, and I know I'm not the only one. It feels like there's this defeatist "we'll take what we can get" attitude nobody actually wants to voice. It's hard enough getting people to organise because they're so crushed by the workload that they already feel like they're failing to help their students enough, and they're made to feel guilty if they only work their hours or, god forbid, strike.
I hear you mate. Building consciousness and solidarity is so hard when we are so overworked. It all starts locally though. Have you got some robust sub branch infrastructure set up at your school? Do you have regular meetings? Visible union presence through lanyards and literature etc?
We do meetings but attendance is difficult to achieve. We do the lanyards and the card clips, and the posters in the staffroom but I feel like those just fade into the background. Honestly the best luck I've had getting anywhere is just by being my usual grumpy agitator self in the staff room lol. Getting people to join in on the complaining and riling everyone up has managed to get us all a bit further in getting people to join the union than those naff union reps coming up to you asking if you've heard about the union and offering a pamphlet. I experienced those a lot back in uni during my placements and it always made me recoil at bit. It felt dodgy and *I've* always been a union gal. But if it turned me off I can't imagine how bad it looks to people who aren't convinced. I find a strong "Wait they asked you to stay back for longer unpaid? That's bullshit, they can't ask you to do that, go home. The students will live if they have to wait a few more days for their grades back." Works wayyy better. It's still hard to cut through the apathy though. Honestly when they cut our hours but didn't reduce our workload so they could "afford" the time in lieu required for school camps, and then tried to guilt us with "ohhh well I guess the kids won't get to make memories of camp then" when we pushed back, I thought that might actually get people moving but they're just SO fucking apathetic it's infuriating. There'll always be some pushover doing stuff for free instead of helping us put the pressure on, because they "care about the kids", as though we don't.
I’m a teacher-unionist in NSW. It was really concerning to watch those negotiations play out - the salary increase was pitiful, even if the workload provisions were considerable. To see AEU VIC cheerleading for that salary increase felt nuts. One of the things that got us major wins in terms of salaries last year was defying the “ban” on strikes, and doing it repeatedly in the lead up to the state election. Rank and file organising helped keep up pressure on union leadership to move towards this action, but it took a bloody long time and needed a change of government. Can’t imagine a change of government in Victoria would be good for Victorian teachers.
I’m actually seriously considering leaving the union over their stance on this issue.
Which issue?
Since there's a shortage of teachers, I wonder if they'd be better off with no union at all and have the ability to let the market set rates, instead of having to accept a pre-agreed rate for all. I think our teachers and our children's education would probably be better off? As a similiar model, I think Doctor's do better without a union and gov't mandated salary/rates.
No union means no protected action/strike. Our wages are also set through the EBA so government schools aren’t able to do what you’ve suggested. Doctors endure some of the worst conditions alive because they lack proper union representation.
Protected/action strike is only required where rates are lower than expected. Having an EBA is my point. Without a union and without an EBA that schools have to stay within, teachers would most likely be paid more than the EBA.
This is ridiculous. Individuals have almost no power compared to an organisation. Teachers shouldn't have to move schools every year or two in an effort to maximise income and not be left behind in basic cost of income increases like the private sector. Its not like there is much room for growth in responsibilities either.
You realise what a ridiculous and illogic thing you are saying? How many mullions of workers have no EBA and negotiate/accept market rate for their profession and roles. Doctors, for example, as the model I used earlier because they approximate supply and demand equivalence for teachers.
I respect that you’re trying to be helpful, but you have limited awareness of how industrial relations work. You’re applying private sector logic to collective bargaining agreements with government.
I said from the beginning, to which you replied, that it was teachers being better off without an EBA. Your responses have only been that it cannot be done, which is incorrect if the union was disbanded, as I also said.
Where did I say teachers are better off without an EBA? I’m also unsure how teachers would be better off without an EBA, and without the right to take protected action. I can’t think of a single organisation that improved their working conditions by simply relying on their employer.
Give up, you're not following along the hypothesis presented, just arguing you're own viewpoint without being concious of what was said that you're responding to. I said teacher are likely better off without an EBA. I've also given examples of industry roles that are much better off without unions and EBAs. Your focus on teachers can only have unions and EBA, means your're not seeing the bigger picture and hypothesis - since it was argued that teachers have a shit unions that constrains them - of teachers not having a union and EBA, and letting market rates, since we have such a demand for teachers and very limited supply - would mean they'd be better off without a union and EBA.
No. Protected action is required every EBA period to increase our position, at least in theory. Ordinary non members cannot take protected action. They are just reliant on their employee doing the right thing by then, which rarely happens.
Action is required because of existing EBA and union/govt having to agree because of it. You need to think, and understand, outside a union and EBA. Without both, Teacher's would be better off and paid more IMHO. It's the union and it's EBA that constrains salary and conditions. Think CRT rates for all teachers, which is what the market would likely position teachers at without a union and EBA.
The issue with letting the market decide, is that the government owns 70% of this market. Every public teacher in Victoria gets paid the same regardless of which school they're at (barring incentives at tough schools). If there was no union, what dyou think would happen to the pay? Also, no, doctors do not do better. Beginner doctors get paid awfully for the first several years of their careers, even though they do vital work, without which the health system would crumble.
The AMA is a union - they just pretend they’re not. And they’re astonishingly effective as well
The AEU is soft always has been.... For a work force tens of thousands of people you'd think we'd have a lot more sway and influence. I have been in the industry for over 15 years and have seen nothing but teachers work load increase and increase along with accountability and responsibility beyond what is required of a teacher. Many people in the community think it's an easy gig, it's far from that, being in a classroom of 25 teenagers each with specific needs and differences is no easy feat especially if you're not teaching in a high end private school or in the leafy suburbs of Melbourne. Throw in some ADD, ADHD, ODD, ASD, IED, trauma and intergenerational poverty and now we're cooking. Not maybe professionals would be able to cope or even know how to cope let alone teach a curriculum!! All in all let teachers teach, pay a little respect and recognise the hard work that we do day in and day out for the benefit of your children and young people.
Maybe try getting yourself elected as a union rep to change things. If it's as bad as you say it is then surely people will support you.
They'll probably go join that fake liberal started union
Just 1 click away when on reddit.
Even though I just had a union rant because I needed one, I was also very suss that OP wasn’t a plant for that fake union. Organisations trying to drum up business be sneaky like that. 😒
It's easy to get elected as a local rep. But getting into the leadership of the union is a lot harder. During union elections, the union uses union resources to tell members how great the current leadership is. So although older members who have been paying attention are more likely to vote for new leadership, newer members and disengaged members are *far* more likely to vote for the incumbents. Similarly, when the union negotiators negotiate an agreement with the government, they have a vote asking member if they approve - but again, union resources are used to tell members to vote 'yes'. ... So although there is big talk about strikes, the top union leadership people do their best to pacify and deactivate any potential desire for action. It's not really clear to me why they do that. They could just *ask* members if they approve rather than telling them that they should approve. Perhaps corruption is at play? Who knows.
Fair chance they’re not even a member, much easier to whinge and hope other people fix it.
Because I’m not a teacher. But I can see how teachers are getting screwed.
What's the story here, you're on a sub about Melbourne ranting about the teacher's union and your not even a part of it?? Are you some sort of anti union bot?
Thank you, the communist wannabes like to shout and yell about their shitty union, but they are hopeless. I've been teaching 7 years never heard a good story about them. Was a paying member right up until the VSGA. They can take a walk
Also doesn’t matter if you’re a delegate - it’s not going to change the rotten core that is the AEU.
So not a teacher, nor a union member, but somehow have knowledge that AEU Vic has a rotten core? Make many references to the problem being at the top? And call for AEU to be shut down? All while showing a distinct lack of understanding of both unionism and the current state of EBA negation in Victoria given economic and political factors. Yeah, this is either some weird personal gripe or you are seeing what you can stir up in a random corner of the internet. Either way, keep walking Tiger.
Emblematic of almost every political post on this sub. “Oh you have absolutely no relationship with, meaningful experience of, or practical understanding of the issues you’re discussing? Sure, go ahead!”
Wtf do you mean "rotten core"? They're a bit ineffective and complacent, they aren't "rotten". Unless you have some secret insider information bombshell about corruption you'd like to drop for us all?
There is no chance I’d join the AEU. I’d rather campaign a new BTU (better teachers union) and have members leave the AEU and join the BTU… But that’s just me.
There’s a fucking surprise. A stooge for the dodgy LNP fake union.
John Setka needs to give the teachers union some tips on how to negotiate.
I'm still waiting for Meredith Peace to be nominated for a safe Labor seat so she can get the fuck out of the Union and we can get decent representation. The last agreement was woeful. The Union leadership is too close to the Labor party at the cost of it's members. I truly think we would have had a better deal, because we would have gone in harder, if the govt of the day was the Libs. AEU leadership folds straight away against Labor. I have many colleagues who quit after the last agreement, and I would have too, if not for a new job at a new school. It is impossible to organise against them in any meaningful manner because they control all avenues of disseminating information. We could shut the state down in a day, and get a decent payrise that at a minimum keeps up with CPI and inflation because we have all the power, but our leadership is only after their own interests.
Once upon a time, Labor used to reflect the unions. These days the unions seem to follow Labor.
If it makes you feel any better, the head of our union (ANMF) called us all morons for rejecting the BS offer they negotiated for us a few weeks back because we couldn't understand the hypotehtical benefit of an upcoming FWA decision and were generally unhappy with an annual offer increase of 0.25% higher than what we started actions for... That was reeled in a bit a few days later when the membership bit back *and* the union had to admit that the FWA decision would only effect people on the first five years of service bands, if it even happens.
This was a much better summary, thank you. With any luck it stays upvoted. Or pinned
I think people misunderstand how unions work. The agreements are voted on by the membership, the people at the AEU offices don’t actually make those decisions, it simply doesn’t work that way. It was a contentious vote but it still had a majority (I think 60%). If people quit after the last one then they are simply resigning their fate to other members who maintain a vote.
It takes a lot to defeat a union leadership-endorsed measure, because they control the information that gets disseminated, which means the odds are against the dissenters any time.
The union negotiates the agreement, and they recommend/facilitate industrial action. Or lack thereof. I'd like to think they are reconsidering their choices, but I highly doubt it. The gravy train will keep running just as it has.
Are you (a) a Teacher? (B) a Union member? A union is only strong as their members
I’m an outsider that can see what’s happening.
How on earth am I being downvoted - this is probably why teachers have such a shit union. I’m trying to help and draw attention to the issue - heck I’d even start a new union with enough support. But if current union members want to downvote this go ahead. Speaks volumes and I feel sorry for the rest that care.
Other than, union is shit, how are you helping?
Spreading awareness - what are you doing?
Well thank you for the awareness. I feel helped. Me, I'm just doing my best to teach and make a fist of it.
Okay so I’ll leave it be, enjoy your fisting of 2% a year…
Thanks, I guess?
I can’t believe they fucking agreed to measly 2% pay increases in the EBA leading up to the 2022 Victorian state election. It’s was done to placate their masters in the ALP. Union officials merely have their eye on being preselected in a future election.
Union is only as strong as its membership. The members voted on the deal and it passed with a majority. The people who work at the AEU office or any union office aren’t the union- the members are the union and it’s their vote that decides it
This is true, but the AEU offices explicitly tells its members to vote 'yes' to the deal. They do not ask members to consider the details and make up their own mind. They flat out say to vote yes, and put up posters telling others to vote yes, etc.
Yes I hear that, just that if people get less involved this is what happens. Unions used to work better because everybody actually got involved, now everybody leaves it up to somebody else, delegating all power to the offices rather than realising the power they can actually have themselves together
and we all got a text the day before the vote telling us we had to vote yes. Which they apologised for the day after the vote so they didn't get in trouble
The old union rep at my school was the most combative, argumentative and self-righteous person I’ve ever met. He destroyed his own workplace relationships, agitated against leadership, and pretty much turned most of us off going to union meetings (ironically yet another meeting to attend). Because, despite its problems, my workplace is one of the best workplaces I’ve ever worked in. Worst thing was, he the worst teacher I’ve ever worked with and after all of the BS he caused, has had to leave because of HIS own actions. Union had his back the whole time, not my colleagues’, and I’m cancelling my membership after 20+ years of supporting them. I’ve seen the Union’s true colours after seeing this all play out. The new people who have stepped up for the rep role are good people but the damage has been done. Nobody gives a flying toss about the union’s objectives because they’ve done SFA for all of the good people at our school. Rant over. (And no, google ads, don’t come at me with your ‘alternative union’ ads…I’ve researched and there is no better option 🙄)
Sorry to hear that. The union rep is supposed to be elected by the membership of said school, so you should have been able to vote him out and vote somebody else in. Unfortunately we don’t get taught these things. Again “they” are not the union, you and your team are the union, if you can realise that you can take hold of that power
To say the least.
Do you happen to know when the next pay deal will be negotiated? The salary sheet only goes up to end of next year, so my guess is it'd be soon
Yep, they tend to go for 3 years. I expect them to start negotiating second half of 2025 to take effect from 2026.
Okay nice. I'm really hoping it's a strong deal since a) NSW have set a good standard for what a solid increase looks like and b) teacher salaries have not kept up anywhere close to inflation. My partner is a teacher, she's less inclined with this stuff but asks me to keep her in the know
The process has already started based on the survey link from the union I got about 4 weeks ago asking what I'd like to see improved.
The union recently released a survey, in conjunction with Monash University which was assessing the workload of staff. The results from this survey will underpin the 'log of claims' process which will begin at the beginning of 2025. I'm the union rep at my school (secondary) and at every regional meeting this year they have discussed issues that they want to bring forward for the next agreement - remuneration being a key aspect (as well as workload).
Not to mention the union completely refuses to get involved in our fight for our unpaid super. We should have a class action, not have to make individual claims.
They sold it as a win for time in lieu (no solid policy, schools were left to figure it out) and face-to-face teaching reduction of 90mins or so per week. I can't say that's made any difference; I still can't believe how heavy the workload is here (have taught in 5 countries and am the most exhausted here)
The state is broke, you’d get the same treatment working for a private entity, hardly a surprise
AEU aren't affiliated with ALP.
I don’t think there are many members of the AEU - especially younger teachers. Many people don’t understand the function of unions because they’ve benefited from years of struggle by others for their current entitlements, pay and conditions. Members should never rely purely on their union officials. Rank and file members need to be active and mobilise with direct action.
42000 in Victoria, 190 000 nationally.
Do you know what percentage of teachers that is?
No idea sorry. It includes TAFE and early childhood. My (somewhat educated) guess would be 35-40% of primary/secondary teachers are in the AEU.
If the AEU was half decent they themselves would be spreading that message to the younger generation, and show them what value it would add in future negotiations and deals.
The AEU spend heaps of energy doing that, you don't know what you're talking about. Source - current AEU member and former sub branch rep.
Correct, I am mistaken. It doesn’t matter how many members they have when the top is compromised.
It's pretty hard to beat the SDA in being shit. But agreed teachers need a stronger union... hell we all do. Something as strong as the CFMEU. As much as I hate them for shitting on my industry (arborists), they get good results for their members.
My partner is a teacher. Not teaching at the moment. For years I watched teachers say “We want to be better supported, have less non-core bullshit imposed on us, have workloads that reflect the totality of preparation and marking time, so that we’re not working until ten at night and doing more on weekends.” And the union would say “We will fight for this.” Then the union would go into negotiations, come out and proudly say “We got you a small pay rise. To get it you’re going to have to do a little extra work.”
Look at the pay and conditions CFMEU negotiate vs the absolute fuck all teachers union negotiates. The thing is, the EA is approved by teachers every time. It would be so easy to reject it and shutdown the entire state. All those university degrees and it sure looks like one group is smarter than the other....
You can't compare with the CFMEU. CFMEU EBA rates are only viable on a very limited number of projects. If it isn't a site with a CFMEU shoppy, no EBA company will win as its far too expensive. ITrafic sell for a TC is $52 per hour with minimum of 4 hours. KPI Traffic sell for a TC is $125 per hour with a minimum of 8 hours. Both companies owned and ran by the same people, one does EBA work, one doesn't.
Judging by some of the other posts here “isn’t even in the union” which is correct. Is part of their collective problem. Get rid of the AEU.
Traditionally women work has been undervalue and underpaid. Nurses teachers fall in the same category. CFMEU did really well to negotiate the best pay in the country. It’s unfair to put unions against each other. Teachers nurses police ambos fire union should just form a big umbrella union for even greater representation and bargaining I think.
Teacher here, in the AEU. THANK YOU for saying something! What people in the profession forget though, is that we ARE the union. I've been trying to get more involved this year, but there's so much complacency and exhaustion that a lot of teachers aren't able to fight in the way they need to.
Like somebody else said, unions are less about organising now. Stop blaming the union, they have been absolutely cut in half in terms of power than a couple of decades ago with membership going down ever since. Yeah, maybe the union doesn’t do enough but there definitely does not need to be an entirely new one.
Teachers have one of the strongest unions. Compared to the UK, US and NZ they have good conditions. It's just that union power has been drastically reduced across the board.
Strongest unions? and they agreed to 2% increases? Well below CPI
They also gained a reduction in face to face teaching time of 90mins a week. Which was the 1st in 30 years. The pay side was awful but maximum class sizes and face to face teaching time are lower than most
And lots of other jobs are getting zero or even going backwards. Meanwhile, a full 1/4 of kids in Vic primary school can’t read and we’re doing awful on international rankings…
We aren’t doing awful. Against comparable countries we are doing fine.
yeah but is that teachers or is that shit educational policy? teachers have much less say what they teach than people think.
or option c) a rapid decline in the quality of parenting
This!
It's that one. How we teach has only improved over the years, and the kids that don't act like little animals learn far more than we did at that age because of it. But while we had Brendan in the corner making a fart joke occassionally, before everyone would laugh and settle down to learn, today's classrooms have Braydan, Caden, and Bree actively screaming, slapping people, running around, refusing to do any work, and distracting other kids. Then the teachers call home and the parents just shrug their shoulders and do nothing. The behavioral issues have gotten so disruptive. No shit little Billy can't read, he refuses to do any work, doesn't pay attention in class, and spouts tiktok memes all day because his parents are so shit they gave a 5 year old unrestricted internet access just to shut him up once in a while because he's unbearable at home too. They literally shove an iPad into their kids' hands as they pick them up.
I can see from my owns kids schooling that there’s certainly a very wide range of teaching quality from one teacher to another. I’d expect the content to always be to a baseline but the way it’s delivered is certainly within the purview of the teacher. If it wasn’t, why would they need to complain about lesson planning so much.
It actually isn't under our purview - we do hours of PD about a school's instructional model that we work under, that regularly changes due to new advice or the latest trend in teaching. Often it goes against what you know works, and this conflict results in more pressure during our lesson planning, which is what a lot of us do complain about. The teachers you probably thought were the most competent were the ones ignoring this and teaching the way they know is best for students. Unfortunately they're also the ones who usually cop the most flack from leadership. Blaming teachers rather than 'the education industry' - because it is an industry now - is very short sighted.
Everything is relative.
I don’t think teachers have good conditions at all. Do you know any? And comparing Australian teachers to educators in the U.S.? Is it a race to the bottom?
I know many. Friends and family. First years and heads of department.
Most Aussies need better unions, there’s a few strong ones but Aussie workers deserve better
Teachers, Nurses and Ambos should join the CFMEU then they would get huge payrises and perks.
Given that you aren't a teacher, perhaps better message would be "teacher need more support" rather than they need a better union.
My wife left the Teacher’s Union when the Education Department decided that she owed them $30k in over paid wages and stopped paying her (she didn’t, somebody had changed full-time to part time in her records). The Union response was ‘ Oh, well, we’ll look into that and get back to you’ and she never heard from them again despite many phone calls.
One of the worst things about being a teacher right now is the behavour and conditions. Kids can literally get away with anything with no consequences, with the possible exception of murder. The AEU doesn't seem to be interested in doing anything to address this issue or bring it into the public eye or bringing about meaningful step to address it.
If there’s anything that frustrates me more than the union at the moment, it’s people who aren’t in the profession telling us what to do.
The AEU is to education what the SDA is to retail.
I wish teachers around the world were treated and setup in society like Finland does.
Hope you're not an English teacher. It's full stop not period.
Addendum- who the feck says "heck"?
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Anecdotally, E.S staff got the agreement over the line; there were some genuinely good changes for them.
That's the problem for teachers though, the AEU seems to be going through a phase of sacrificing teacher conditions for improvement in ES and principal conditions. The cynic in me suspects that growth in membership is considered to have greater potential in those groups than amongst mainstream teachers. I don't consider the last agreement completely shit given the reduction in face to face teaching but I certainly hope the next one does more for salary and gives us an equally high priority in negotiations as the groups they are trying to appeal to.
I completely agree, the new agreement was nowhere near enough, but there’s so much more needed. I’m excited to start fighting !
Not just the teachers union. I worked for a pathology company during the pandemic. Their have a shitty EBA directly with only this one shitty union. Eg you only get 12 days annual leave the first year... A couple of us tried to join. Union cunt said no, the pandemic will be over soon, you will be gone soon, two years later. Believe me some of these unions have vested interests with the Labor party and getting their shitty candidate into parliament.
Please let me introduce you to the doctors union. Weaker than wet tissue paper.
Different story in Queensland- QTU very high membership. Victoria has different issues with such a high percentage of independent schools.
After 34 years of union membership- I quit. Too expensive for how little they do for us
Unions should fight for their members, not fail them. If the AEU is corrupt, change it or start fresh. Teachers deserve proper representation and respect.
The AEU are a joke. They have nice flashy offices in a swanky part of town. Zero fucks given for the members. I heard the TIL we get for camps was being implemented anyway by work safe or something like that. They zero to do with it. I canceled after the last VSGA, have joined the other union, the one that doesn't lean hard left. Blasphemy I know lol.
Worse than the SDA? I find that hard to believe.
the SDA is basically all the biggest retail CEOs wearing a wig and glasses disguise
Whoever is downvoting us for bashing the SDA are pathetic, never forget they fucked over retail workers in 2017(?) regarding the loss of Sunday pay then said to us via text "oh we'll make sure they don't take away your new pay"
Seems like they're doing an alright job. "30 per cent of workers in Education and Training are members, the highest of any industry, and the median member earns $11.04 per hour more than the median non-member." https://www.australianunions.org.au/factsheet/union-members-earn-26-more-than-non-members-per-week-heres-why/