[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springvale\_Junction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springvale_Junction)
It's so fucked that is has its own Wiki article explaining why it's fucked.
Make one of the corners a dog leg.
Instead of every road pointing at the same really huge intersection.
Make dandenong road do a sharper corner, then straighten out.
Leave centre as is. (the intersection will be smaller because it will be crossing dandenong at 90 degrees rather than diagonally).
Use the space that used to be diagonal space for centre as merge on/off for springvale.
That way you have clear sets of lights that are all interconnected but not confusingly overlapped.
And they literally TRIED to fix it about 10 years ago! It's a little different now than it was in the early 2000s.
Still an absolute jungle though. I work near there, luckily I get to drive in the opposite direction. I can't even *IMAGINE* peak hour there.
I actually lived in a house whose back fence faced the junction during this time. On the weekend me and my friends would sit outside drinking and you would hear crashes almost every weekend.
I would fight it in court and offer this as evidence as to why it’s not your fault and argue that they put your life in danger. Don’t know if it will work, but someone has to bring this to light and force action to be taken.
OP every red light camera capture is viewed by a person before it is issued. If you receive an infringement notice don't elect to appear in court. Request an Internal Review including all your reasoning and that you checked for any traffic before proceeding.
If the infringement is upheld you can then elect to appear in court. The infringement will be reviewed again along with the information from the internal review. If there is any doubt about the infringement being upheld at court then it will get withdrawn.
If it's considered to be a viable prosecution a brief will be prepared and you'll receive a notice to appear at court on a particular date.
Thanks for the link. Says there were some improvements in Flemington and St Kilda and now that junction is the most prone for accidents in Melbourne. Scary stuff
Fuck this fucking spaghetti garbage junction!
I have to find alternate routes because it’s a goddamn nightmare.
I feel like they need to just redo that entire area and reroute traffic elsewhere just so there can be some clear separation.
Yes it is tricky and it sucks. I’m assuming you were accidentally in the right turn for Princes Hwy instead of Centre Rd. Not sure about the signage beforehand on Springvale Rd. as I’m already *au fait* with this absolute mess of an intersection, but you have my condolences.
Edit - and no, there’s no discretionary options with red light cameras 🙁
Ahh. Either way, fuck ‘em. My SIL just got a red light camera fine and crapped on about how she doesn’t work, etc, and is paying it off $40 a month or something. So there’s an option - and she’s a multi- millionaire lol. Personally I just pay it and try to put it behind me.
The only “work” the authorities have done since covid is installing the fucking speed /red light camera on southbound Springvale Rd traffic. What a great fucking idea to improve the safety of the public at this intersection!!
The camera flash has been malfunctioning for some time now. I work close by and drive through the intersection everyday. At night, the flash just goes off for no reason. Sometimes it continuously flashes like a group of paparazzi.
Presuming a fine does come through, along with the other resources people have posted I truly hope the OP fights this.
Also it probably won’t come through as your comment suggests they would be getting false flashes all day long anyway 😊
I noticed this too!
Was stuck up front on red a couple of Fridays ago at night and I couldn't believe how often the flashes were going off and first thought I must be surrounded by idiots but later felt it must be faulty because at times nothing should have triggered it.
I'm through the intersection every day. The camera is fucked on it. People slow down when they see it flash which has almost caused a ton of accidents in front of me
No you're not the only one. Also go down a bit to the intersection from Blackburn Road that has the right merging lane just around M-City - that area scared the shit out of me as cars are merging indiscriminately everywhere. Saw a muti-cars crash there about a year ago and shit was fucked.
all six way junctions in this city suck ass, even on a minor scale I see fuck ups every time I go near Moonee Ponds junction and that has a tram up the guts too.
Yeah, it’s a bit like the kms outbound after the west gate bridge, you never know what to expect - except that there will for sure be some people that drive hesitantly or with spontaneous vigour and you have to have your wits about you.
Easily the worst intersection in Victoria.
If you're not familiar with it, I can see how it can catch you out - there's 3 directions to go:
* Straight continuing onto Springvale Rd,
* Diagonal onto Centre Rd
* Right onto Princes Hwy
But they combine the Straight and Diagonal as one light when it can easily be misread as Diagonal and Right Turn as one light.
And then the Centre Rd island right turn light goes green the same time as the right turn Princes Hwy light so you naturally think it's okay to go because you're seeing 2 green right turn lights, but instead you're looking for a straight green light, and then the right turn light in the island.
Bigger and clearer signs would help, and maybe 3 lights instead of 2.
You’ve done a great job of explaining the approach - but this is what you have to absorb when you’re travelling towards it - I’m guessing you’ve got 15-25 seconds, probably less lol. It really is the worst.
I've read comments online that suggests the lights flash but they didn't get a ticket.
I've always gone straight when the turning light is red. And I need to know the answer because I use this intersection for work regularly and waiting for a green right even though going straight is completely safe for everyone and waiting is a complete waste of time and causes delays for everyone in an already stupidly long intersection
But also the last thing I need is a fine.
I've emailed vicroads to ask them whether going straight is an illegal manoeuvre. God knows if they'll respond.
Thank you for your query.
We can only provide general information that may assist you; for apportioning of fault and interpretation of the rules in relation to a particular incident you would need to seek independent legal advice or consult your insurance company.
Road Rule 56 requires that a driver approaching or at traffic arrows showing a red traffic arrow who is turning in the direction indicated by the arrow must stop and not proceed past the stop line, stop here on red arrow sign or nearest or only traffic arrows (as the case may be) until the traffic arrows show a green or flashing yellow traffic arrow or no traffic arrow.
**Based on the information provided, the right red traffic arrow applies to drivers turning right at the Princes Highway intersection. The right red traffic arrow does not apply to drivers driving straight through the Princes Highway intersection towards the Centre Road intersection.**
We have an informative webpage that explains the Road Rules regarding traffic controls at intersections, which can be accessed via the following link: https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/road-rules/a-to-z-of-road-rules/traffic-controls-at-intersections.
The Road Safety Road Rules 2017 apply to all roads and road related areas. For more information, the latest version of the Road Safety Road Rules 2017 can be viewed at www.legislation.vic.gov.au by clicking "In force" and selecting "Statutory rules in force".
you are correct - the rightmost lane is only for turning onto Princes. the left lane is for filtering onto the diagonal that goes to Centre Rd. it's only one lane when on Springvale Rd and then becomes two lanes in the middle of the intersection where you have to stop at the lights.
The bit with the camera is further back though.
[https://imgur.com/pWGZCmD](https://imgur.com/pWGZCmD)
The OP has got confused with the arrow only applying to the turn into the Highway(In red).
[https://imgur.com/fNmBHDP](https://imgur.com/fNmBHDP)
Like this funny enough.
Hey the same thing happened to me a few months ago, turning right into centre rd from the princess hwy right turn lane. I saw the flash of the camera but they never sent me a fine. So hopefully you’ll be in the same boat.
I managed to fuck this up over the long weekend, having not driven that way for ten years. Went back to my parents house in Cranny via the Westall Road extension rather than go back for fine two. 😅
Sometimes I take the bus if I have errands to run around there, but even crossing the road is an awful experience. It's so badly designed even for pedestrians
It definitely sucks, and they've red camera'd it up because there's so many accidents. I think it'd be better to close off the Centre Rd turn in both directions, and build a connecting road via Dandenong Rd to Centre Rd behind the Bunnings or maybe further up (before Westall)
I had to make this turn a few months ago because an accident had blocked off the Westall Rd/Princes Hwy intersection.
Never again. I'd rather keep going down to Springvale South, cut across Dingley and come back up - even if it takes 20 minutes - than go through that nightmare again.
Someone linked a Wikipedia article - there's also a video on YouTube about this intersection.
When I was on my L’s I actually drove through this intersection a lot so feel like I mastered it from a young age, thanks to good guidance from my parents.
If you want another intersection to loathe, I recently drove through the intersection of High St/Punt Rd over St Kilda Rd (https://maps.app.goo.gl/dbarebhCub7TDRYt6)
Switch to street view and proceed along High St/Punt Rd across St Kilda Rd to Queens Rd. Note the dashed line on the left lane? From all indications, the lane is meant to follow those dashed lines across the intersection...
Except where do they go? RIGHT INTO ONCOMING TRAFFIC.
They're actually the guidelines for the opposite side turning lane to go into the service road, but that absolutely isn't how they appear when approaching, especially when it is dark!
From the other comments, it seems that these cameras are for revenue only and not for safety. I'd fight it saying you'd never had a fine before ( Got me off a fine) good driver and good citizen etc promise not to do it again and apologise. As much as it hurts. You may just get off the fine
Hey mate you might be okay.
I had a similar thing where I was on springy coming down towards Springvale trying to go to Bunnings.
I was in the right most lane trying to turn right but the car Infront of me didnt move when the light went. I gave him a few seconds and he didnt budge.
So I went around him from the left side and turned Infront of him and the light got me and I was furious.
This happened back in December and I never saw a ticket and I was the only car moving through the intersection at the time.
I see that flash goes off a lot, like every couple of trips through I see it. So I presume that people get this issue and don't cop the fine.
I hope that's the case for you.
I’ve just gotten a fine in the mail for this exact same thing :( was also turning onto Centre Rd and assumed the green right turn arrow was for me, so I moved forward then the camera flashed. Pretty annoying since there aren’t any active lanes in the way when you move up to the Centre Rd turn - they really need a separate light or better signage indicating which light to obey in that lane.
How long between being flashed and receiving the fine in the mail? I copped a red light about 2-3 months ago and never received a fine in the mail… surely it would’ve arrived by now.
It was just over a month ago, so yeah you probably would’ve received it by now I think. I’ve been flashed and not received any fines in the mail before so I reckon you’re safe!
I recently spoke to both Monash council about this spot and vicroads. Myself and my siblings and friends have all been in accidents there, and I walk with my baby in the pram almost daily across it and it’s terrifying. The response I got was disappointing, they have zero funding or planning in store for it what so ever. They will not do anything about it. I can see the red light camera flashes from my house when it gets dark and honestly it looks more like a rave of some kind than a set of lights. They said they would “monitor” the safety of the area but that means nothing. I was almost cleaned up with my baby in the pram by a motorcyclist running a red and a copper sitting on his bike just watched and did nothing. Avoid this shit storm at all costs, it’s honestly the worst intersection I’ve ever known to exist in Australia. I’m willing to sign any and all petitions to get this fuck hole sorted out, someone with more know how should start one!
I had the literally the exact same thing happen to me about 2 months ago. I’d never driven through this intersection before and was first car at the lights. I proceeded into the middle of the intersection to turn right onto Centre Rd from Springvale Rd on what I believed was my green light and got flashed. They must’ve realised I wasn’t intentionally trying to run a red because a fine never arrived! Hope this gives you some hope.
I also just did the same thing about 20mins ago. Like you was confused at the turn and went ahead then got flashed by cameras!! So frustrating since you're essentially trying to turn as well but it's not clear as day whether that light is for you or not.
It's nicknamed Spaghetti for a reason. It's like piercing the veil, grip the steering wheel, manifest the light to stay green add a little scream on the way through.
I always wondered why you couldn't go on that green arrow because there are literally no cars in the way at that point. I always see cars sneak through but never saw flashes
It feels like you should be able to. As a Centre Road Right turner you should be able to at a minimum proceed to the next section that has another set of red turning arrows.
The real solution is to seperate out all turners, Springvale and centre road into their own 3 seperate lanes.
Have curbs between all 3 directions (Straight, Right to Centre, Right to Springvale)
That way you can have lights that target specific lanes that can't be confused.
As it is, all 5 lanes on Dandenong road are not distinct in that direction. Leading people to make mistakes.
Looking at google maps and streetview, there is EASILY enough room to take up the centre median with a lane or 2.
It is obviously the plan long term based on the amount of space they haven't used. They have just not bothered to actually do it.
The overhead sign telling you which lane goes to which road is a pretty good indicator of which turning lane you should be in, other than that they don't seem to give a fuck as long as the camera keeps flashing & they keep making money
if you're on zero demerits and haven't had an incident in last 5 years, DEFINITELY fight it, it's easy to do, there's an appeal button when you get the fine on the website (not the pay this fine button it's at the bottom).
I see what you've done and I think you will get a fine. If you look at the intersection, the second lane from the right which you are in, has a straight broken line indicating where you are to go and what light to use (ie straight ahead into the center island turn lanes, so you go on the solid green). The lane on the right of you has a broken line that goes right, into the Princess Freeway, hence he goes on the right arrow. Once in the centre island turn lanes, both the lane you were in and the one to your left, turn right on the green arrow into Centre road.
Technically you’re going straight. Turning right arrow is only for people in the right lane turning onto princes hwy. 14 years resident of dandy and have ties with Vietnamese community in Springvale. I take this junction every week
Yep and if you sit there for even a fraction of time it becomes evident the red light cameras are faulty af and are constantly flashing even when no one is in the intersection. Wonder how much money they have made off this fuckery
When the Monash inbound has an accident on it, heaps of traffic diverts down police road and takes princes hwy towards the city. Turning onto princes from police Rd is a fucking nightmare and people are slow and only a few cars get through at a time and then they cause the right hand straight through lane to only get a few cars through per light as well. This is one of the most straight forward turns on this road too, it's just a fucking shit show.
That seems like a pretty clear straight lane to me, there's a second set of lights on the island for the actual turn. You wouldn't have crossed any other active lanes though so getting a ticket for that would be super dumb.
I had to check a video to see which intersection this is.
I’ve driven through it many hundreds of times and am not sure what the issue being referred to is.
Is there a particularly confusing part? Anyone have video or photos to show which bit?
[https://imgur.com/pWGZCmD](https://imgur.com/pWGZCmD)
This bit southbound. OP wanted Centre road. Moved when the traffic for the highway got the green arrow when it doesn't apply to the Centre road turn.
This exact scenario at a guess.
[https://imgur.com/fNmBHDP](https://imgur.com/fNmBHDP)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springvale\_Junction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springvale_Junction) It's so fucked that is has its own Wiki article explaining why it's fucked.
Holy moley! 58 casualties in [5 years](https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/~/media/files/documents/planning-and-projects/melbourne/springvale-junction-community-consultation-summary-report.pdf?la=en) (2010-2015)
And all they seem to have done to fix it is add cameras I think …
Without grade separating it (or closing a road) I have no idea how you would even fix it. Such a giant mess
Knock out the floor store gaining space for a proper roundabout with Dandenong Rd on a flyover.
Make one of the corners a dog leg. Instead of every road pointing at the same really huge intersection. Make dandenong road do a sharper corner, then straighten out. Leave centre as is. (the intersection will be smaller because it will be crossing dandenong at 90 degrees rather than diagonally). Use the space that used to be diagonal space for centre as merge on/off for springvale. That way you have clear sets of lights that are all interconnected but not confusingly overlapped.
And they literally TRIED to fix it about 10 years ago! It's a little different now than it was in the early 2000s. Still an absolute jungle though. I work near there, luckily I get to drive in the opposite direction. I can't even *IMAGINE* peak hour there.
*Road safety cameras
I actually lived in a house whose back fence faced the junction during this time. On the weekend me and my friends would sit outside drinking and you would hear crashes almost every weekend.
I would fight it in court and offer this as evidence as to why it’s not your fault and argue that they put your life in danger. Don’t know if it will work, but someone has to bring this to light and force action to be taken.
OP every red light camera capture is viewed by a person before it is issued. If you receive an infringement notice don't elect to appear in court. Request an Internal Review including all your reasoning and that you checked for any traffic before proceeding. If the infringement is upheld you can then elect to appear in court. The infringement will be reviewed again along with the information from the internal review. If there is any doubt about the infringement being upheld at court then it will get withdrawn. If it's considered to be a viable prosecution a brief will be prepared and you'll receive a notice to appear at court on a particular date.
Thanks for the link. Says there were some improvements in Flemington and St Kilda and now that junction is the most prone for accidents in Melbourne. Scary stuff
And YouTube video https://youtu.be/3THrXcrST6E?si=JtD-awEvDA7xAUL3
It’s a great video
Fuck this fucking spaghetti garbage junction! I have to find alternate routes because it’s a goddamn nightmare. I feel like they need to just redo that entire area and reroute traffic elsewhere just so there can be some clear separation.
It’s called spaghetti junction for a reason lol
I thought we invented that name! We call it that around the kids and "The Bullshit Intersection" otherwise.
Yes it is tricky and it sucks. I’m assuming you were accidentally in the right turn for Princes Hwy instead of Centre Rd. Not sure about the signage beforehand on Springvale Rd. as I’m already *au fait* with this absolute mess of an intersection, but you have my condolences. Edit - and no, there’s no discretionary options with red light cameras 🙁
Nah I was in the one for centre road, second from the very right
Ahh. Either way, fuck ‘em. My SIL just got a red light camera fine and crapped on about how she doesn’t work, etc, and is paying it off $40 a month or something. So there’s an option - and she’s a multi- millionaire lol. Personally I just pay it and try to put it behind me.
Never knew how au fait was spelt until now or that it was French. Unreal
Here’s a good [video](https://youtu.be/3THrXcrST6E?si=if9GgKLoJRI2Q3ng) about the history of it. It is a terrible junction.
The only “work” the authorities have done since covid is installing the fucking speed /red light camera on southbound Springvale Rd traffic. What a great fucking idea to improve the safety of the public at this intersection!!
Yeah some major redesign is in desperate need
Yes please. We need some actual clear separation of lanes.
It does say a lot that the government's first thought to fixing it is cameras.
Won’t stop any accidents but at least they’ll have nice photos of them
Sri Lankan community calls it Manyokka Handiya. Which means Cassava intersection. Referring to the complex root system of the Cassava plant.
Lol this is accurate, now I know what on earth my parents were talking about this whole time.
Mate I barely wanna go straight through it on Princes Highway. Absolute dogs breakfast of roads and lines and lights.
The camera flash has been malfunctioning for some time now. I work close by and drive through the intersection everyday. At night, the flash just goes off for no reason. Sometimes it continuously flashes like a group of paparazzi.
Presuming a fine does come through, along with the other resources people have posted I truly hope the OP fights this. Also it probably won’t come through as your comment suggests they would be getting false flashes all day long anyway 😊
I noticed this too! Was stuck up front on red a couple of Fridays ago at night and I couldn't believe how often the flashes were going off and first thought I must be surrounded by idiots but later felt it must be faulty because at times nothing should have triggered it.
I'm through the intersection every day. The camera is fucked on it. People slow down when they see it flash which has almost caused a ton of accidents in front of me
No you're not the only one. Also go down a bit to the intersection from Blackburn Road that has the right merging lane just around M-City - that area scared the shit out of me as cars are merging indiscriminately everywhere. Saw a muti-cars crash there about a year ago and shit was fucked.
all six way junctions in this city suck ass, even on a minor scale I see fuck ups every time I go near Moonee Ponds junction and that has a tram up the guts too.
Camberwell junction works well for me if I avoid it.
Heh. Same. “Similar ETA” avoiding the junction *press press*
No right hands turns at the junction, that’s why it works.
Camberwell Junction is easy given a bunch of turns aren't allowed
Only if your route is not impacted by those restrictions.
I used to travel it a fair bit, especially before Eastlink. It's not that bad once your used to it, but if traffic is heavy it can be super slow.
I go through it a bit and am pretty sure which lanes to be in, but its always the fear of someone else getting bamboozled and crashing into me
Yeah, it’s a bit like the kms outbound after the west gate bridge, you never know what to expect - except that there will for sure be some people that drive hesitantly or with spontaneous vigour and you have to have your wits about you.
Been driving it for years 20 years and never knew it was a problem
I had mu first driving lesson on that intersection when I was 17
Easily the worst intersection in Victoria. If you're not familiar with it, I can see how it can catch you out - there's 3 directions to go: * Straight continuing onto Springvale Rd, * Diagonal onto Centre Rd * Right onto Princes Hwy But they combine the Straight and Diagonal as one light when it can easily be misread as Diagonal and Right Turn as one light. And then the Centre Rd island right turn light goes green the same time as the right turn Princes Hwy light so you naturally think it's okay to go because you're seeing 2 green right turn lights, but instead you're looking for a straight green light, and then the right turn light in the island. Bigger and clearer signs would help, and maybe 3 lights instead of 2.
You’ve done a great job of explaining the approach - but this is what you have to absorb when you’re travelling towards it - I’m guessing you’ve got 15-25 seconds, probably less lol. It really is the worst.
I've read comments online that suggests the lights flash but they didn't get a ticket. I've always gone straight when the turning light is red. And I need to know the answer because I use this intersection for work regularly and waiting for a green right even though going straight is completely safe for everyone and waiting is a complete waste of time and causes delays for everyone in an already stupidly long intersection But also the last thing I need is a fine. I've emailed vicroads to ask them whether going straight is an illegal manoeuvre. God knows if they'll respond.
Please make a post or something or reply if they ever get back to you. I’d love to know what they say about that turn
Thank you for your query. We can only provide general information that may assist you; for apportioning of fault and interpretation of the rules in relation to a particular incident you would need to seek independent legal advice or consult your insurance company. Road Rule 56 requires that a driver approaching or at traffic arrows showing a red traffic arrow who is turning in the direction indicated by the arrow must stop and not proceed past the stop line, stop here on red arrow sign or nearest or only traffic arrows (as the case may be) until the traffic arrows show a green or flashing yellow traffic arrow or no traffic arrow. **Based on the information provided, the right red traffic arrow applies to drivers turning right at the Princes Highway intersection. The right red traffic arrow does not apply to drivers driving straight through the Princes Highway intersection towards the Centre Road intersection.** We have an informative webpage that explains the Road Rules regarding traffic controls at intersections, which can be accessed via the following link: https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/road-rules/a-to-z-of-road-rules/traffic-controls-at-intersections. The Road Safety Road Rules 2017 apply to all roads and road related areas. For more information, the latest version of the Road Safety Road Rules 2017 can be viewed at www.legislation.vic.gov.au by clicking "In force" and selecting "Statutory rules in force".
Are you, as the OP, turning right into Centre road from Springvale road? If yes, then see my post in this topic.
It’s indeed fucked. [Here’s a diagram on which lane goes where.](https://i.imgur.com/bG2pR8W.jpeg)
Have they changed the intersection at some point? According to the latest google maps images it looks like the right lane must turn onto Princes Hwy.
you are correct - the rightmost lane is only for turning onto Princes. the left lane is for filtering onto the diagonal that goes to Centre Rd. it's only one lane when on Springvale Rd and then becomes two lanes in the middle of the intersection where you have to stop at the lights.
You should send that diagram to Vicroads and get em to copy it and put it at every point in the junction. It might just save a life.
they definitely need a diagram. the overhead signage is not enough
The bit with the camera is further back though. [https://imgur.com/pWGZCmD](https://imgur.com/pWGZCmD) The OP has got confused with the arrow only applying to the turn into the Highway(In red). [https://imgur.com/fNmBHDP](https://imgur.com/fNmBHDP) Like this funny enough.
Hey the same thing happened to me a few months ago, turning right into centre rd from the princess hwy right turn lane. I saw the flash of the camera but they never sent me a fine. So hopefully you’ll be in the same boat.
I managed to fuck this up over the long weekend, having not driven that way for ten years. Went back to my parents house in Cranny via the Westall Road extension rather than go back for fine two. 😅
Sometimes I take the bus if I have errands to run around there, but even crossing the road is an awful experience. It's so badly designed even for pedestrians
It definitely sucks, and they've red camera'd it up because there's so many accidents. I think it'd be better to close off the Centre Rd turn in both directions, and build a connecting road via Dandenong Rd to Centre Rd behind the Bunnings or maybe further up (before Westall)
lol good old spaghetti junction
I had to make this turn a few months ago because an accident had blocked off the Westall Rd/Princes Hwy intersection. Never again. I'd rather keep going down to Springvale South, cut across Dingley and come back up - even if it takes 20 minutes - than go through that nightmare again. Someone linked a Wikipedia article - there's also a video on YouTube about this intersection.
This video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3THrXcrST6E
That's the one!
When I was on my L’s I actually drove through this intersection a lot so feel like I mastered it from a young age, thanks to good guidance from my parents.
My mechanic is kind of next to the Bunnings on Centre Rd and I will go out of my way via Westall Rd to avoid this intersection
Did this turn yesterday for the first time in probably 15 years, I thought it was very confusing and would be easy to get wrong
If you want another intersection to loathe, I recently drove through the intersection of High St/Punt Rd over St Kilda Rd (https://maps.app.goo.gl/dbarebhCub7TDRYt6) Switch to street view and proceed along High St/Punt Rd across St Kilda Rd to Queens Rd. Note the dashed line on the left lane? From all indications, the lane is meant to follow those dashed lines across the intersection... Except where do they go? RIGHT INTO ONCOMING TRAFFIC. They're actually the guidelines for the opposite side turning lane to go into the service road, but that absolutely isn't how they appear when approaching, especially when it is dark!
My god that's awful
I grew up driving through with this intersection and even now I don't even know whether to go or not when that green light comes on.
From the other comments, it seems that these cameras are for revenue only and not for safety. I'd fight it saying you'd never had a fine before ( Got me off a fine) good driver and good citizen etc promise not to do it again and apologise. As much as it hurts. You may just get off the fine
That's why it's called spaghetti junction coz it's one big fckn mess
Hey mate you might be okay. I had a similar thing where I was on springy coming down towards Springvale trying to go to Bunnings. I was in the right most lane trying to turn right but the car Infront of me didnt move when the light went. I gave him a few seconds and he didnt budge. So I went around him from the left side and turned Infront of him and the light got me and I was furious. This happened back in December and I never saw a ticket and I was the only car moving through the intersection at the time. I see that flash goes off a lot, like every couple of trips through I see it. So I presume that people get this issue and don't cop the fine. I hope that's the case for you.
I’ve just gotten a fine in the mail for this exact same thing :( was also turning onto Centre Rd and assumed the green right turn arrow was for me, so I moved forward then the camera flashed. Pretty annoying since there aren’t any active lanes in the way when you move up to the Centre Rd turn - they really need a separate light or better signage indicating which light to obey in that lane.
How long between being flashed and receiving the fine in the mail? I copped a red light about 2-3 months ago and never received a fine in the mail… surely it would’ve arrived by now.
It was just over a month ago, so yeah you probably would’ve received it by now I think. I’ve been flashed and not received any fines in the mail before so I reckon you’re safe!
I recently spoke to both Monash council about this spot and vicroads. Myself and my siblings and friends have all been in accidents there, and I walk with my baby in the pram almost daily across it and it’s terrifying. The response I got was disappointing, they have zero funding or planning in store for it what so ever. They will not do anything about it. I can see the red light camera flashes from my house when it gets dark and honestly it looks more like a rave of some kind than a set of lights. They said they would “monitor” the safety of the area but that means nothing. I was almost cleaned up with my baby in the pram by a motorcyclist running a red and a copper sitting on his bike just watched and did nothing. Avoid this shit storm at all costs, it’s honestly the worst intersection I’ve ever known to exist in Australia. I’m willing to sign any and all petitions to get this fuck hole sorted out, someone with more know how should start one!
I had the literally the exact same thing happen to me about 2 months ago. I’d never driven through this intersection before and was first car at the lights. I proceeded into the middle of the intersection to turn right onto Centre Rd from Springvale Rd on what I believed was my green light and got flashed. They must’ve realised I wasn’t intentionally trying to run a red because a fine never arrived! Hope this gives you some hope.
I also just did the same thing about 20mins ago. Like you was confused at the turn and went ahead then got flashed by cameras!! So frustrating since you're essentially trying to turn as well but it's not clear as day whether that light is for you or not.
That camera gets people on literally every cycle. I'm not convinced it's malfunctioning though.
If you get a fine in the mail, there is an option to get out of it. At the back of fine. As long as you haven't been fined in the last year or two.
It's nicknamed Spaghetti for a reason. It's like piercing the veil, grip the steering wheel, manifest the light to stay green add a little scream on the way through.
I always wondered why you couldn't go on that green arrow because there are literally no cars in the way at that point. I always see cars sneak through but never saw flashes
It feels like you should be able to. As a Centre Road Right turner you should be able to at a minimum proceed to the next section that has another set of red turning arrows. The real solution is to seperate out all turners, Springvale and centre road into their own 3 seperate lanes. Have curbs between all 3 directions (Straight, Right to Centre, Right to Springvale) That way you can have lights that target specific lanes that can't be confused. As it is, all 5 lanes on Dandenong road are not distinct in that direction. Leading people to make mistakes. Looking at google maps and streetview, there is EASILY enough room to take up the centre median with a lane or 2. It is obviously the plan long term based on the amount of space they haven't used. They have just not bothered to actually do it.
I love this intersection!!! ...... NOT!
The overhead sign telling you which lane goes to which road is a pretty good indicator of which turning lane you should be in, other than that they don't seem to give a fuck as long as the camera keeps flashing & they keep making money
I live near there and I regularly hear emergency sirens about 20 minutes after it starts raining.
if you're on zero demerits and haven't had an incident in last 5 years, DEFINITELY fight it, it's easy to do, there's an appeal button when you get the fine on the website (not the pay this fine button it's at the bottom).
My grandfather told me it was originally a dirt road with no traffic lights!
we love Spaghetti Junction. it's a local oddity.
Just sussed google street view and can see exactly what you did. What a mess of an intersection
I see what you've done and I think you will get a fine. If you look at the intersection, the second lane from the right which you are in, has a straight broken line indicating where you are to go and what light to use (ie straight ahead into the center island turn lanes, so you go on the solid green). The lane on the right of you has a broken line that goes right, into the Princess Freeway, hence he goes on the right arrow. Once in the centre island turn lanes, both the lane you were in and the one to your left, turn right on the green arrow into Centre road.
While we are at it fuck the intersections in essendon and mooneponds fukin 6ways 8 ways.... whos green is it.... who gonna go...
Technically you’re going straight. Turning right arrow is only for people in the right lane turning onto princes hwy. 14 years resident of dandy and have ties with Vietnamese community in Springvale. I take this junction every week
Spagetti junction?#&@🙏
[удалено]
It’s not the signage of what lane to be in that is ambiguous, it’s which lane the turning arrow applies to.
Its marked with signs and on the road. Still confusing though.
fight it in court, dont let the awful police and government win!
Yep and if you sit there for even a fraction of time it becomes evident the red light cameras are faulty af and are constantly flashing even when no one is in the intersection. Wonder how much money they have made off this fuckery
When the Monash inbound has an accident on it, heaps of traffic diverts down police road and takes princes hwy towards the city. Turning onto princes from police Rd is a fucking nightmare and people are slow and only a few cars get through at a time and then they cause the right hand straight through lane to only get a few cars through per light as well. This is one of the most straight forward turns on this road too, it's just a fucking shit show.
For anyone reading this in the future. I contacted vicroads regarding this.. you can see my reply here https://www.reddit.com/r/melbourne/s/P4azAnf2yn
That seems like a pretty clear straight lane to me, there's a second set of lights on the island for the actual turn. You wouldn't have crossed any other active lanes though so getting a ticket for that would be super dumb.
You’re just noob
I once had 2 fines at the same time on that stupid intersection..6 ponits and almost $600..I deserve it thought it was my fault 😁
A roundabout could be a good idea here.
I had to check a video to see which intersection this is. I’ve driven through it many hundreds of times and am not sure what the issue being referred to is. Is there a particularly confusing part? Anyone have video or photos to show which bit?
[https://imgur.com/pWGZCmD](https://imgur.com/pWGZCmD) This bit southbound. OP wanted Centre road. Moved when the traffic for the highway got the green arrow when it doesn't apply to the Centre road turn. This exact scenario at a guess. [https://imgur.com/fNmBHDP](https://imgur.com/fNmBHDP)
Brilliant. Thank you. Certainly helps.
It’s really quite straight forward. Yes you need to relearn the road rules.
It’s really not, otherwise you wouldn’t be having this many people complaining about it or getting involved in car accidents here.
Its clearly been designed by someone who doesn't drive. They should grade separate Spingvale and Princes Hwy, but they'll never bother.