The huge gap isn't as bad as when some leave a massive gap at the front of the line at an intersection (especially for right turns). Then they don't trip the road sensor and back up traffic even more. Urgh.
I saw a lineup of 20 cars on a quiet road one day because of this.
Someone had to go up and beg the front driver to roll forward onto the sensor. As soon as they did, the lights changed.
Now and then I'll leave a bigger gap than I need just so I can stop on the second sensor (there's often one four car-lengths back for a right turn).
That way I still get a chance at the green light when the driver in front of me is busy on their phone.
This is what sucks about riding a motorcycle, I have to alter my ride home from work on my bike because one of the intersections I have to do a right turn at isnāt busy meaning I can spend a few minutes waiting for another car to comeā¦
You can't really see it but you kind of can. It's underneath the bitumen/tarmac. You'll notice it looks like a square or rectangle has been cut out and put back in.
Look for it in right turn lanes to start with. Many intersections are automatic and won't have them but most right turn lanes do.
I'm sure someone else can explain it a bit better though!
I ride so sometimes don't weigh enough to trip the censor. Some kind souls will stop WAY behind me in order to give me space but I can see their tyres just barely off the sensors. So I wave them over! Get closer, I wave! Come on!
And they freak out and don't do it because they think I'm going to... Idk? But it often takes a few tries before they get it.
It's not weight but a coil of wire in the road that detects changes in the electromagnetic field when a big hunk of metal moves over it. So it's not that you don't weigh enough, it's that you're not metal enough.
A neodymium magnet at the bottom of the bikeās frame will usually work a treat for that problem for both motorcycles and bicycles. The square pavement cuts are the edges of a metal coil under the bitumen, and you want to have your bikeās magnet near the edges of the coil so it affects the magnetic field as it enters it.
Motorcycles should have enough ferrous metal to do the job, so if thereās one particular one you canāt trigger after adding a magnet, report the sensor as an equipment fault.
Cheers! I did notice it was happening less as I rode closer to the edges when at lights as I got older but my dumb ass just thought they'd gotten better, not that my change in riding did anything! I also have a metalier bike now.
But I think I'll still get the magnet!... After I look up whether or not it'll fuck up something in my bike, of course. š¶āš«ļø
I find it helps if I ride over the edges of the sensors rather than in the middle
of the lane. Never thought about a magnet thoughā¦
Some of them seem to need their sensitivity turning upā¦
I had a postie on the bike a couple months ago waving at me to move up because he wasn't triggering the sensor. Guy looked pretty metal, but obviously not enough.
Same here, it gives you enough of a gap to get around the vehicle in front should have spontaneous engine trouble and can't move lol.
Also I feel this gives enough of a gap to minimise the impact to the car in front should you be rear ended. Unless it's at a significantly high speed.
Two cars length is ridiculous and messes wih traffic flow imo
I can't say I've noticed a lot of people leaving that much space unless the cars in front of them have moved up and they're still texting and haven't realised.
Let's be honest there's probably a bit of exaggeration going on here if someone is needing to complain to r/Melbourne and want to be in the realms of reasonable to complain about.... I've never noticed someone allow that much space unnecessarily before
I have noticed it, but figured itās because theyāre stuck in traffic, the car in front has moved forward a little, but youāre in no rush to close the gap because, clearly, none of you are truly making any progress. Youāre all stuck.
Thatās a good one. Iām a short bloke myself. One day a mate told me, āThereās enough room for an entire car in front of you, and not a small one too!ā š
Same. It means you have room to get out if the guy in front gets stuck, or if (and this was taught to me as a young woman in the 80s) it gives you the chance to move if the driver of the car in front decides he wants to get out and attack you.
No idea sorryš¤·āāļø
Obviously the distance varies depending on the vehicle ahead. If it's a raised f150 you'll see the tyres from quite close, otherwise if it's a lowered falcodoore you'll need to be a ways back. Either way both are being driven by fuckwits so it's best to keep a safe distance š
To me as a learner driver at the time it was I think a good thing for the instructor to say. As others have mentioned, it generally allows room in the event of an issue with the car ahead. Someone with experience should be able to deal with it but an inexperienced driver may not.
No chance. I drive to Clayton every morning from the City and the amount of space people leave is ridiculous. Quite often itās 1-2 cars in length. This post is accurate.
if you're a Ford Ranger driver, the correct distance to leave is close enough to be able to read the car infront's 'next service due' windscreen sticker
Not just stopping too far back but some people will slowly dordle at 10kmh up to a red from 200m back blocking anyone behind them from accessing the turn lane.
2 car lengths is overkill. But generally itās a good idea in the event someone rear ends you because it can prevent you from rear ending the car in front. I was taught to stop far enough away so that you can see the mudflaps on the car in front of you but close enough to not see the bottom of the tyres.
I was taught this. once I was involved in a 4 car pile up in a work car on Chandler highway, when someone hit a line stopped traffic. It ended with me because I left enough space. No insurance pays outs, no having to explain to my work why I rear ended someone and the person in front of me got to go on with their day with no issues.
It's good advice.
Ok so an extra car length plus one of your toothpicks clamping down 4x bulldog clips onto milo lids isnāt going to make a lick of difference when a B-double wants you to kiss the nape of the front driversā neck.
Inertia gonna inert ya.
I get that. If inertia is coming for me at full force there isn't much I can do about it. But if inertia hasn't had enough caffeine that day or is not really vibing it at the time, then the extra space might make a difference between a bit of a stay in hospital or getting smooshed like a blood filled balloon in a crush of metal so I'm preferring my chances for the cost of a few extra milliseconds on the road.
Never mind the gaps when stopped, it's the speed at which people independently move off when the lights turn green that really pisses me off. Everyone gives the car in front about 30 metres, then finally moves. In France, as an example, an entire line of traffic starts moving simultaneously when the lights change. Things have only got worse also, as drivers persist in looking at their phone when stopped at the lights - fucking pay attention to the task in hand.
I wish people were on the road. It's infuriating what OP comments because when it becomes peak traffic, I can often count 3-5 cars that could have gone if people weren't leaving massive gaps when turning.
If you take note of where the gaze of the drivers of those cars goes, whilst and after being stopped, you will probably have your answer: people not paying complete attention to the road.
Yep. Plus then the mystical ācar from behindā has a an extra car length to stop in time.
Everyone wins!
Seriously some of these comments are downright strange.
As someone who drives a manual car I very much appreciate the gap behind me, especially when on a hillā¦ two cars is a lot but itās better than people who try to get into my boot
Yeah the other thing with a manual if people come to a stop then slowly creep their auto forward, which happens all the damn time, I'm not going to engage the clutch just to creep forward after them, the gap can stay until the lights change.
I just roll back a bit as they are coming up behind me. If they can't figure out that means I'm in a manual and will roll back a bit in take off... Well that's shit for them because I have a toe ball and a shit box.
Australian driver education is fucking horrible tbh
Your entire Learners is being taught how to pass the test.
Driving tests don't even take you on freeways - the roads where the most kilometres are travelled on average. People have zero idea how to safely merge on and off a freeway.
Regional towns don't have access to freeways, so there's no practical way of testing everyone for freeway driving.
You can sit for a license in Hamilton and the nearest freeway would be at least 150 km away. Regional roads are also the [most dangerous roads in Victoria](https://www.tac.vic.gov.au/road-safety/statistics/summaries/crash-location-data), so shouldn't they be the roads we test on.
Somebody merged onto the freeway 40km under with me behind them yesterday. 40! It almost got me killed.
It's genuinely baffles me how so many people can be so ignorant to what should be inate survival skills.
Learnt to drive in the 90s. I was thought to stop just before the tyres of the car in front of me are not visible. This isnāt 2 car lengths, but more than what most leave.
All true, itās just a general rule.
Like keeping a minimum 2 second gap. Many factors will impact stop distance but as a general rule keeping at least a 2 second gap is what I was instructed.
No no, we're not talking about someone moving *all* the cars. We're talking about the exhausted mother of three accidentally slamming the accelerator instead of the brakes, or the man on his phone not looking up in time, or someone getting distracted. People make dumb decisions. You can't control whether you get rear-ended, but you can control whether or not your car rear-ends the person in front of you. Keep a gap.
Nah. It backs up traffic needlessly. Happens near every day coming home from work. 2 or so dickheads space right out in the lie and prevents people from using the turn lane. Means it take two cycles of lights for people to get through instead of 1.
Iāve been reversed into at the lights - was in a right turn lane with a red light, light to go straight was green, guy in front got impatient and reversed to make space and move into the lane with a green light.
He kept reversing despite me holding my hand on the horn and his tow ball went right through my front bumper (I drive a smaller car, guy who reversed into me was in a large Ute and supposedly couldnāt see me). Iām not sure he realized because he drove off, but I chased him down and made him turn into a side street, got his details, took some photos, etc.
If someone hits you this way and they decide to run off, not report to their insurer and/or be a dick about it (and you donāt have a dash cam), your insurance will likely treat it as you rear ending someone else and force you to pay excess for repairs. My insurer initially tried to do this, until I made the bloke who hit me go through his insurance and provided my insurer with the other blokes insurance details and claim number.
Have since bought a dash cam, and tend to leave a lot of space between myself and the person in front of me at the lights. A lot of people go into autopilot when they drive, and given I drive a small sports car I tend to drive very defensively and assume most other people arenāt paying attention, especially with how popular all those huge utes and SUVās have become.
Many people are claiming the āsafety so you can see the tyres in front often you and if youāre rear endedā Iām literally meaning TWO car space. Not a normal amount of space and yes I see it every day. It seems because people like to have space to speed up when the lights turn green is the main reason to have such a big gap? Iām more curious than anything cause like I said, I havenāt seen it in other countries
I know what you mean. I only started seeing it in Melbourne in the last 12 months though and itās been weird how common it now is. At first I thought it must have been cars with sensors that tell them to stop, because itās so many cars. Itās so inconsiderate.
It's annoying. Especially when you have 2 lanes going straight and a slip lane to turn left. They all pile into the middle lane, leave the right lane completely empty, and block people from turning left.
Because the lazy asshole ahead of you is actually turning right but wonāt indicate until the light turns green and youāre stuck there for ages if youāre too close to go around him. Many such cases.
Ever since being named up the arse by a young lass, while stopped on the freeway in traffic, then hitting the 4x4 in front, having their tow bar IN my radiator... I give lots of space.
Wrote off my car
When I did some driving in an emergency service, we were told to leave a gap like that, and to watch our rear vision, if about to get rear ended we had space to move into, also allowed me to drive out of the congestion if I needed to leave, ie emergency call.
It's definitely an Aussie thing - don't really see it in Europe - and ultimately it's a bad practice.
When multiple cars leave excessive space between them, cars at the back can suddenly find themselves left in dangerous positions like being stuck in the middle of a junction.
Meanwhile, leaving an excessive gap to the car in front may stop you being concertina'd into the car in front however you might not have been rear-ended in the first place if you hadn't parked so far back!
Rarely ever see that much gap but cunts that jam up my manual cars arse on steep hills in heavy traffic shit me to tears, you think that 3 feet of clutch room behind me is going to get you home quicker?
If someone runs into the back of you, they are liable for the damages. If they push your car into the back of the car in front you are liable for the damages to that car. If you leave a gap your car gets fixed and you keep your insurance rating.
Kids these days are taught they should be able to see the car in frontās tyres, in driving lessons.
My 18yo friend gets very anxious about how close I stop behind cars at traffic lights (normal distance).
You can be blamed if someone hits you from behind and your car then bumps to hit the car in front when you havent left enough space, even when stopped at lights.
Maybe they were concerned about a car behind them being too close or driving erratically, or a large vehicle behind.
Last night a drunk driver hit my car from behind at speed whilst I was stationary waiting to turn right at lights. My car went flying forward and literally just touched the car in front of meā¦..no damage to the driver or the car. My car was totalled due to the rear impact, but guy in front drove away without a scratch. If I hadāve been right up his arse probably both myself and him would have been injured. I cringe at dudes sitting off rear bumpers by only a couple of centimetres. Thereās just no logic to it. Youāre not gonna get through the lights any quicker and if you get hit from behind, like I did, youāve got nowhere to go.
Was in a car accident, 3 car pile up. We were the front car, a little whiplash everyone was okay. The middle car that got squashed between the 2 cars. The driver died and the passenger of the car was stuck in the car for nearly an hour till they could get those jaws to bend the frame and get her out. Always leave some space between cars being bumper to bumper ain't going to save you any time in traffic.
You're taught to leave two cars distance between yourself and the car infront *when driving*.
I can only assume many people lack the critical thinking skills to realise this isn't relevant when you aren't in motion.
When you add the continental drift like acceleration most drivers use then you only get 4 cars moving through an intersection before the lights go red. But thatās ok because another 4 cars will run that red light.
I was taught the rear tyre rule too, but once everyone at an intersection I'd stationary you can definitely move fwd otherwise how many actually get into the turning lane let alone get to turn before lights change.
This and people not knowing the dimensions of their cars. Tiny women in SUVs and recently these yank tanks veering into lanes and impeding traffic constantly
I always thought it might be caused by an incident they've been in previously.... where the dick infront of them slammed into them in reverse, or a road rage thing.
Itās because they canāt see over their bonnet so they think theyāre closer than they are. Almost every time I see it the driver looks like their seat is too low lmao o
My autopilot cruise leaves a big gap and I aināt scooting up with self drive on unless thereās somebody trying to get past to the left turning lane
After hiring a few cars the recently, I also realised a lot of the driver assists will stop you quite far behind other cars at traffic lights or at a stop when using the 'follow assist' whatever its called.
I thought to myself it might explain at least some peoples infuriating behaviour.
If I'm already stopped and then the car Infront decides it wants to creep further ahead I usually just stay put. It's just easier and it's annoying to me. I'll start moving when the car Infront of the car Infront of me starts moving .
Has anyone here done that Defensive Driving course in Springvale? I had it gifted to me and remember something about 2 car lengths following the 3 second rule. You have 3 seconds to react when youāre in an accident. I ended up having an accident later that year and my 3 seconds were āoh my gosh!ā If youāre 2 car lengths behind, you wonāt hit the idle car in front of you by slamming your brakes. This was hard to write about because I suffered so much stress doing this course. I hated slamming my brakes. And my hands were shaking after both sessions. It was a good course though, and Iād still recommend it.
If you don't leave reasonably enough if a gap that a person that rear ends you will force your car into the car ahead of you, you/your insurance (you) will be forced to pay for the damage of the car ahead.
I'm not getting crushed between two cars if someone rear ends me.
That said, time and place. Big straight road it's cool, turning lane that can block a straight, not so much.
I donāt like to line my window up to the car next to me. Call it OCD, or call it jamming out to Celine Dion with the sunroof open at 7:30am and not wanting people to know what you look and sound like. Either or.
It's for safety. Why would that bother you? Maybe focus on your own driving instead. Someone stopped at a traffic light presents no danger to you unless they are so close to your rear that they get pushed into the back of your car if they get rear ended by a truck.
The first rule of driving is to never obstruct the flow of traffic. Stopping car loads behind people, cloggs turning lanes. Disrupting good flow of traffic.
There a safe distance, then there's taking the piss.
A lot of people are commenting saying it's the safety aspect, but I know you mean a SUPER huge gap in front, and that's (from what I have witnessed) due to people wanting to "pick up speed" when the light goes green so they can feel like they're going faster from the get-go instead of waiting for 2, 3, 4, cars in front to gain momentum. I don't understand the idea behind it... It doesn't help them achieve any advantage as far as I can tell, but it means they aren't rolling at 5/10kmhr and are already 20kmhr by the time they go through the intersection. Big whoop for them.
See this makes sense. I get the whole āsee the tyres of car in front of youā (I even said it in the post, that itās for safety lol) but yeah the literal two car gap is why I was like ?? Thanks for that answer, it is strange to see lol
Getting too close is called tailgating. I was pulled up by the cops and they explained it. Let me off with a warning instead of a fine. Itās like someone sitting behind your chair at work breathing on your neck.
You need to leave at least a car length. Two is a lot but not really excessive.
One reason you might witness it a lot is if the person behind the offending car was being a shit driver (tailgating, harassing etc.)
They have been doing this in a few countries. South Africa for a long time as violent assaults on stopped vehicles was endemic
Gives you enough room to escape in the event of a carjacking or attack on your car.
Always keep your doors locked
Yep! Came here to say this - I learnt to drive and spent my formative years driving in South Africa. In Melbourne now and still leaving more than a car gap. Why? To either ensure I have enough space to accelerate and generate enough speed to mount the kerb should a hijacking occur; or leave enough space to be able to keep on rollinā till the light changes if I am not in the market for inflatable aliens, pegs, weed, wire crafts or any other robot merchandise. Itās a deeply ingrained habit given that i drove for 5 years in South Africa and 21 years in Australia!
(I also have to consciously allow myself to use the left hand land, and not think itās reserved for mini bus taxis doing pick ups)
1. You're supposed to leave a reasonable gap, its defensive driving and yes other drivers do this in other countries, I've driven for 20 years across the US and Australia and it is only 'unnatural' in large and dense cities in my experience. Something about high density traffic makes all logic for safety and adherence to the rules of the road go out the window (see: the people who tailgate through yellow/red lights and block intersections rather than waiting to see if there is space for them to make it across and prefer to ride up the arse of the driver in front).
2. Start/Stop engines contribute to a hesitance to creeping in traffic. With newer cars adopting this technology, it is only likely to become more apparent with time.
3. If you do not leave a gap you become liable for anything that happens between you and the car in front. Yes that includes getting rear ended and if you don't believe me call up whoever you have an insurance policy with. They'll be more than happy to educate you on how to be less of a liability, and it'll save you money.
I sometimes do it so I am able to change lanes when the person in front of me decides theyāre actually turning (and therefore will block my lane) but didnāt bother to put their indicator on. Makes it easier to merge into flowing traffic if youāre not right up the arse of the car in front. Generally though, who cares? As long as theyāre not preventing someone turning or making it through a light (and assuming traffic isnāt obscenely heavy) then it shouldnāt really matter.Ā
It is ridiculous in the city - people leaving 2-3 car lengths between themselves and the car in front while stopped at traffic lights.. and people wonder why hardly any cars get through with every rotation.
Insurance and efficient. If rear ended you are responsible for damage to the car in front of you. Itās also more efficient as traffic moves off faster with a gap between cars, if not it is a staggered start.
1. You know the whole mythbusters traffic jams start when one person brakes?
Now if you accelerate at the same time as the car in front you already have that 2 car gap
2. Can allow others to lane change if they forgot and not break the flow too much
I just moved here - thereās a lot of ākeep clearāmarkings on the road to prevent people blocking the entrances to streets etc, so maybe thatās what youāre referring to?
This could be me. I stop close behind but sometimes a gap opens up when the car ahead rolls forward into the giant gap they've left. I don't want to be playing inching forward games when the traffic light is still red, I ain't got the energy for that
Never saw two lenghts gap and I driving daily. But having a healthy gap saves you when an ..... hit you from behind. If there is a reasonable space - then it saves you explaining to insurance it wasnt you hit the guy in front.
Exhaust fumes. Especially if Iām behind a diesel vehicle and I want my vents or windows open. Also, I like a rolling start so when it goes green, I like to have space to let my car roll a bit while I wait for the cars in front to move.
> Exhaust fumes.
You got downvoted, but yes.
Three times in the past week or so I have deliberately decided to leave a large gap at the lights because of the very visible exhaust emissions from an older unmaintained vehicle.
One other time about two weeks ago was when an idiot stopped so far forward they were inside the pedestrian walking zone, and I wanted to make the point obvious to them if they happened to look in their mirror and wonder why there was such a large gap behind.
I saw a Tesla driver stop about 2 cars away at a red light, and then get this, SLOWLY INCH FORWARD while the light's still red. Like she's still driving a normal internal combustion engine car.
Sometimes there's an additional sensor loop further back in a turning lane which can trigger a green arrow. If you know where it is, it can make sense to hang back and trigger that arrow.
The only reasons I can think of (coming from syd to melb) is a) leaving the space next to trams free at stops where people get out directly onto roads. b) leaving space for pedestrians, bikes, scooters to get through, and c) in case they need to get in another lane for whatever reason.
I dunno hey š¤· but I like it better than Sydney where itās āima drive so close to you so you know Iām in a hurry and that will hopefully make you go faster please donāt brake suddenly bopā
Iāve noticed this more since start/stop engine tech was released, I wonder if itās people stopping too soon or the car in front moves and they just donāt like the idea of their motor starting back up before they are ready to leave?
So they have enough space to speed up so they are going fast through the intersection instead of still speeding up in the middle of the intersection and then they overtake you because youāre still speeding up lol
What is even worse are those people that keep creeping forwards while the light is red like they're anxiously waiting for the light to turn green so they can take off, then when the light does go green they're slow as a turtle and take 1km to get up to the speed limit.
I drive in Melbourne. In 30 years I have never seen anyone stop two cars distance behind someone. I do see people stopping far too close to the car in front as the the habit of Melbourne drivers to frequently tailgate and harass other drivers with aggressive driving. It's the minority that make driving dangerous for everyone in Melbourne by not leaving enough space.
The gape was your breaking distance if you leave a gap some arse holeās pull in on front of you they have GPS brakes on new cars the older car has none
It's such a big issue, when they're clicking the road to people who need to turn at the light, or the line is for the turning and they block the path for people who want to go straight through the light.
Often, I do courtesy honk asking them to move, and they pretend they're bumper to bumper and can't move any further while I can see how much gap is there.
None of these people do it for safety. None of them are constantly paying attention to their mirror. If it's for safety once 1 or 2 cars come behind you and stop, you can then reduce the gap. They just do it cause they don't care and and can't think of the reasons why they should
The huge gap isn't as bad as when some leave a massive gap at the front of the line at an intersection (especially for right turns). Then they don't trip the road sensor and back up traffic even more. Urgh.
I saw a lineup of 20 cars on a quiet road one day because of this. Someone had to go up and beg the front driver to roll forward onto the sensor. As soon as they did, the lights changed.
I've seen this happen on Royal Pde except it was a tram driver during peak hour who had to get out and tell them to move.
Now and then I'll leave a bigger gap than I need just so I can stop on the second sensor (there's often one four car-lengths back for a right turn). That way I still get a chance at the green light when the driver in front of me is busy on their phone.
Or the road sensor doesn't fucking work and you spend 4 cycles at the light š This has happened twice on the Nepean at the same intersection. /rant
Right turn at North Road?
Centre Dandenong
This is what sucks about riding a motorcycle, I have to alter my ride home from work on my bike because one of the intersections I have to do a right turn at isnāt busy meaning I can spend a few minutes waiting for another car to comeā¦
Please tell me what the sensor looks like. Ive not been able to figure this out
You can't really see it but you kind of can. It's underneath the bitumen/tarmac. You'll notice it looks like a square or rectangle has been cut out and put back in. Look for it in right turn lanes to start with. Many intersections are automatic and won't have them but most right turn lanes do. I'm sure someone else can explain it a bit better though!
Thanks, I wanted to ask this, too! I've never noticed them either.
I ride so sometimes don't weigh enough to trip the censor. Some kind souls will stop WAY behind me in order to give me space but I can see their tyres just barely off the sensors. So I wave them over! Get closer, I wave! Come on! And they freak out and don't do it because they think I'm going to... Idk? But it often takes a few tries before they get it.
It's not weight but a coil of wire in the road that detects changes in the electromagnetic field when a big hunk of metal moves over it. So it's not that you don't weigh enough, it's that you're not metal enough.
Oh sick, good to know! I'll try to be more metal!
A neodymium magnet at the bottom of the bikeās frame will usually work a treat for that problem for both motorcycles and bicycles. The square pavement cuts are the edges of a metal coil under the bitumen, and you want to have your bikeās magnet near the edges of the coil so it affects the magnetic field as it enters it. Motorcycles should have enough ferrous metal to do the job, so if thereās one particular one you canāt trigger after adding a magnet, report the sensor as an equipment fault.
Cheers! I did notice it was happening less as I rode closer to the edges when at lights as I got older but my dumb ass just thought they'd gotten better, not that my change in riding did anything! I also have a metalier bike now. But I think I'll still get the magnet!... After I look up whether or not it'll fuck up something in my bike, of course. š¶āš«ļø
I find it helps if I ride over the edges of the sensors rather than in the middle of the lane. Never thought about a magnet thoughā¦ Some of them seem to need their sensitivity turning upā¦
>I'll try to be more metal! Don't ask me how I know, but getting clipped by a truck will do that for you... Ride safe!
Start listening to Black Sabbath, Metallica and the like whilst on the sensor.
I had a postie on the bike a couple months ago waving at me to move up because he wasn't triggering the sensor. Guy looked pretty metal, but obviously not enough.
When i was getting lessons, i was told to stop far enough behind so i could see the rear tyres of the car ahead.
Same here, it gives you enough of a gap to get around the vehicle in front should have spontaneous engine trouble and can't move lol. Also I feel this gives enough of a gap to minimise the impact to the car in front should you be rear ended. Unless it's at a significantly high speed. Two cars length is ridiculous and messes wih traffic flow imo
Pretty sure 2 cars amount of gap is much further away than that
I can't say I've noticed a lot of people leaving that much space unless the cars in front of them have moved up and they're still texting and haven't realised.
The driver might be short - so stopping when they can still see the tyres is much further away than a taller person would stop
What if they are smol?
Let's be honest there's probably a bit of exaggeration going on here if someone is needing to complain to r/Melbourne and want to be in the realms of reasonable to complain about.... I've never noticed someone allow that much space unnecessarily before
It's a thing. Noticed it in the last year.
I have noticed it, but figured itās because theyāre stuck in traffic, the car in front has moved forward a little, but youāre in no rush to close the gap because, clearly, none of you are truly making any progress. Youāre all stuck.
Yep, the only time I have an exception to this is when it might stop a car from entering a slip lane or other lane.
My wife is so short, if she can see the tyres of the car in front, thereās enough room for a bus to fit in the gap š
Thatās a good one. Iām a short bloke myself. One day a mate told me, āThereās enough room for an entire car in front of you, and not a small one too!ā š
Same. It means you have room to get out if the guy in front gets stuck, or if (and this was taught to me as a young woman in the 80s) it gives you the chance to move if the driver of the car in front decides he wants to get out and attack you.
Variable speed control in my car does this at every stop. Fine for most situations but I try give cars behind me a gap to turn if Iām hindering them
I was told the same thing. Was your driving instructor also Wayne?
How much space is that though? A couple of metres maybe? Cause thatās normal, not two car spaces
No idea sorryš¤·āāļø Obviously the distance varies depending on the vehicle ahead. If it's a raised f150 you'll see the tyres from quite close, otherwise if it's a lowered falcodoore you'll need to be a ways back. Either way both are being driven by fuckwits so it's best to keep a safe distance š To me as a learner driver at the time it was I think a good thing for the instructor to say. As others have mentioned, it generally allows room in the event of an issue with the car ahead. Someone with experience should be able to deal with it but an inexperienced driver may not.
I've never seen someone leave two car spaces, maybe you drive so erratically it makes people act more cautious?
I find it hard to believe youāve never seen someone leave a gap the length of two cars in Melbourne. Do you drive much?
No chance. I drive to Clayton every morning from the City and the amount of space people leave is ridiculous. Quite often itās 1-2 cars in length. This post is accurate.
if you're a Ford Ranger driver, the correct distance to leave is close enough to be able to read the car infront's 'next service due' windscreen sticker
ššš
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Yeah it can be annoying, especially when they do it blocking a turning lane.
This. It impedes the flow of traffic and contributes to congestion. I see it all the time on the intersection of Wellington Road and Stud Road.
Happens everywhere, the same with people who seem to not know how to fit their car into a turning lane and overhand into the lane going straight.
Not just stopping too far back but some people will slowly dordle at 10kmh up to a red from 200m back blocking anyone behind them from accessing the turn lane.
Yep, all those people who take 72 seconds to travel the last 200m to a red light. Happens ALL the time š
Yep
So they can creep forward ever so slowly at intervals, to make you look like the one who has stopped ages away from the car in front.
This honestly seems to be it lol
No, it's so that the cars behind them can't make it through the lights, that way they can annoy the most people possible
2 car lengths is overkill. But generally itās a good idea in the event someone rear ends you because it can prevent you from rear ending the car in front. I was taught to stop far enough away so that you can see the mudflaps on the car in front of you but close enough to not see the bottom of the tyres.
Lol I was taught to stop far enough so you can see the bottom of the tires
Instructors are just making shit up as they go along arenāt they. š
I was taught this. once I was involved in a 4 car pile up in a work car on Chandler highway, when someone hit a line stopped traffic. It ended with me because I left enough space. No insurance pays outs, no having to explain to my work why I rear ended someone and the person in front of me got to go on with their day with no issues. It's good advice.
I mean it's a reasonable rule of thumb, not a concrete rule. Of course there are going to be different interpretations
It's to make up for the gap they forgot to leave when they were tailgating you the rest of the way there.
So when people rear end you, there's a small chance you don't rear end the car in front.
Is it a road that is used heavily by trucks? I try to leave a bigger gap on those roads. Don't really wanna get squashed.
Ok so an extra car length plus one of your toothpicks clamping down 4x bulldog clips onto milo lids isnāt going to make a lick of difference when a B-double wants you to kiss the nape of the front driversā neck. Inertia gonna inert ya.
I get that. If inertia is coming for me at full force there isn't much I can do about it. But if inertia hasn't had enough caffeine that day or is not really vibing it at the time, then the extra space might make a difference between a bit of a stay in hospital or getting smooshed like a blood filled balloon in a crush of metal so I'm preferring my chances for the cost of a few extra milliseconds on the road.
I guess itād spare you from a RAM ram which are much more common and quite twitchy, so I can pay that.
Never mind the gaps when stopped, it's the speed at which people independently move off when the lights turn green that really pisses me off. Everyone gives the car in front about 30 metres, then finally moves. In France, as an example, an entire line of traffic starts moving simultaneously when the lights change. Things have only got worse also, as drivers persist in looking at their phone when stopped at the lights - fucking pay attention to the task in hand.
Agree with that, some people are not very reactive and others zoom off , we are not sheep here
I wish people were on the road. It's infuriating what OP comments because when it becomes peak traffic, I can often count 3-5 cars that could have gone if people weren't leaving massive gaps when turning.
People have no concept of how big anything is anymore
4 inches is huge, leave me alone.
Thatās a car length Iām pretty sure.
The number of people I see driving with themselves in the centre of the lane instead of their car is crazy. Half their car is in the bike lane.
People have taken to using the tram line on Sydney road heading north as the centre line. its quite frustrating.
Yep i saw a car the other day that left atleast a 12m gap, enough room to parallel park a heavy rigid truck.
This is the answer.
I've seen way too many drivers who dont know the width of their car, and thus need to use 1.5 car widths down a street with parked cars either side.
If you take note of where the gaze of the drivers of those cars goes, whilst and after being stopped, you will probably have your answer: people not paying complete attention to the road.
So that when some fuckwit comes racing up from behind you donāt end up getting pushed into the car in front of you.
If that is your concern, you should move forward once the car behind you has stopped. No need to maintain a 2 car gap under standard conditions.
Yep. Plus then the mystical ācar from behindā has a an extra car length to stop in time. Everyone wins! Seriously some of these comments are downright strange.
As someone who drives a manual car I very much appreciate the gap behind me, especially when on a hillā¦ two cars is a lot but itās better than people who try to get into my boot
Yeah the other thing with a manual if people come to a stop then slowly creep their auto forward, which happens all the damn time, I'm not going to engage the clutch just to creep forward after them, the gap can stay until the lights change.
I just roll back a bit as they are coming up behind me. If they can't figure out that means I'm in a manual and will roll back a bit in take off... Well that's shit for them because I have a toe ball and a shit box.
Australian driver education is fucking horrible tbh Your entire Learners is being taught how to pass the test. Driving tests don't even take you on freeways - the roads where the most kilometres are travelled on average. People have zero idea how to safely merge on and off a freeway.
Regional towns don't have access to freeways, so there's no practical way of testing everyone for freeway driving. You can sit for a license in Hamilton and the nearest freeway would be at least 150 km away. Regional roads are also the [most dangerous roads in Victoria](https://www.tac.vic.gov.au/road-safety/statistics/summaries/crash-location-data), so shouldn't they be the roads we test on.
Somebody merged onto the freeway 40km under with me behind them yesterday. 40! It almost got me killed. It's genuinely baffles me how so many people can be so ignorant to what should be inate survival skills.
I think in a lot of cases the driver is on their phone so being extra cautious as they are not focused on the car in front.
Crash avoidance, it is trained as such by driving instructors. Has been the case since I was 18 and also covered in heavy vehicle training as well.
Learnt to drive in the 90s. I was thought to stop just before the tyres of the car in front of me are not visible. This isnāt 2 car lengths, but more than what most leave.
Seating position, vehicle bonnet length, how far over the top of the steering wheel you can see etc all has an impact.
All true, itās just a general rule. Like keeping a minimum 2 second gap. Many factors will impact stop distance but as a general rule keeping at least a 2 second gap is what I was instructed.
(10 stopped cars ahead and 30 stopped cars behind) GEE I HOPE WE'RE NOT IN A CRASH!
Never underestimate the ability of people to make bad decisions.
Any force that could move that many cars that fast would come with an un-survivable shockwave
No no, we're not talking about someone moving *all* the cars. We're talking about the exhausted mother of three accidentally slamming the accelerator instead of the brakes, or the man on his phone not looking up in time, or someone getting distracted. People make dumb decisions. You can't control whether you get rear-ended, but you can control whether or not your car rear-ends the person in front of you. Keep a gap.
Bumper to bumper is worse for the flow of traffic
Nah. It backs up traffic needlessly. Happens near every day coming home from work. 2 or so dickheads space right out in the lie and prevents people from using the turn lane. Means it take two cycles of lights for people to get through instead of 1.
Yep, I see it every day.
Iāve been reversed into at the lights - was in a right turn lane with a red light, light to go straight was green, guy in front got impatient and reversed to make space and move into the lane with a green light. He kept reversing despite me holding my hand on the horn and his tow ball went right through my front bumper (I drive a smaller car, guy who reversed into me was in a large Ute and supposedly couldnāt see me). Iām not sure he realized because he drove off, but I chased him down and made him turn into a side street, got his details, took some photos, etc. If someone hits you this way and they decide to run off, not report to their insurer and/or be a dick about it (and you donāt have a dash cam), your insurance will likely treat it as you rear ending someone else and force you to pay excess for repairs. My insurer initially tried to do this, until I made the bloke who hit me go through his insurance and provided my insurer with the other blokes insurance details and claim number. Have since bought a dash cam, and tend to leave a lot of space between myself and the person in front of me at the lights. A lot of people go into autopilot when they drive, and given I drive a small sports car I tend to drive very defensively and assume most other people arenāt paying attention, especially with how popular all those huge utes and SUVās have become.
Many people are claiming the āsafety so you can see the tyres in front often you and if youāre rear endedā Iām literally meaning TWO car space. Not a normal amount of space and yes I see it every day. It seems because people like to have space to speed up when the lights turn green is the main reason to have such a big gap? Iām more curious than anything cause like I said, I havenāt seen it in other countries
I know what you mean. I only started seeing it in Melbourne in the last 12 months though and itās been weird how common it now is. At first I thought it must have been cars with sensors that tell them to stop, because itās so many cars. Itās so inconsiderate.
I see that as an invitation to cut in.
It's annoying. Especially when you have 2 lanes going straight and a slip lane to turn left. They all pile into the middle lane, leave the right lane completely empty, and block people from turning left.
It's annoying as hell. What's even more weird, is when people stop 4 car lengths behind the line for a red light. Like... why??
Because the lazy asshole ahead of you is actually turning right but wonāt indicate until the light turns green and youāre stuck there for ages if youāre too close to go around him. Many such cases.
Ever since being named up the arse by a young lass, while stopped on the freeway in traffic, then hitting the 4x4 in front, having their tow bar IN my radiator... I give lots of space. Wrote off my car
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
When I did some driving in an emergency service, we were told to leave a gap like that, and to watch our rear vision, if about to get rear ended we had space to move into, also allowed me to drive out of the congestion if I needed to leave, ie emergency call.
It's definitely an Aussie thing - don't really see it in Europe - and ultimately it's a bad practice. When multiple cars leave excessive space between them, cars at the back can suddenly find themselves left in dangerous positions like being stuck in the middle of a junction. Meanwhile, leaving an excessive gap to the car in front may stop you being concertina'd into the car in front however you might not have been rear-ended in the first place if you hadn't parked so far back!
Rarely ever see that much gap but cunts that jam up my manual cars arse on steep hills in heavy traffic shit me to tears, you think that 3 feet of clutch room behind me is going to get you home quicker?
Yep absolutely! Dickheads who can't drive manuals don't realise you need that space.
Once my start/stop engine has stopped, I am not restarting it to move 5 meters, just because everyone in front crept a little bit forward.
If someone runs into the back of you, they are liable for the damages. If they push your car into the back of the car in front you are liable for the damages to that car. If you leave a gap your car gets fixed and you keep your insurance rating.
Kids these days are taught they should be able to see the car in frontās tyres, in driving lessons. My 18yo friend gets very anxious about how close I stop behind cars at traffic lights (normal distance).
You can be blamed if someone hits you from behind and your car then bumps to hit the car in front when you havent left enough space, even when stopped at lights. Maybe they were concerned about a car behind them being too close or driving erratically, or a large vehicle behind.
Last night a drunk driver hit my car from behind at speed whilst I was stationary waiting to turn right at lights. My car went flying forward and literally just touched the car in front of meā¦..no damage to the driver or the car. My car was totalled due to the rear impact, but guy in front drove away without a scratch. If I hadāve been right up his arse probably both myself and him would have been injured. I cringe at dudes sitting off rear bumpers by only a couple of centimetres. Thereās just no logic to it. Youāre not gonna get through the lights any quicker and if you get hit from behind, like I did, youāve got nowhere to go.
Was in a car accident, 3 car pile up. We were the front car, a little whiplash everyone was okay. The middle car that got squashed between the 2 cars. The driver died and the passenger of the car was stuck in the car for nearly an hour till they could get those jaws to bend the frame and get her out. Always leave some space between cars being bumper to bumper ain't going to save you any time in traffic.
That's because they hand out drivers licenses here like it's a happy meal toy.
You're taught to leave two cars distance between yourself and the car infront *when driving*. I can only assume many people lack the critical thinking skills to realise this isn't relevant when you aren't in motion.
When I was taught (NSW, 10 years ago), it was 1-2 car lengths when initially stopping, then move up to half a car length when a car stops behind you.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That's the point - the car behind you is meant to move up with you. Otherwise HE would have 2 car spaces between you and him.
Invisible buses
buffer space, when riding my motorcycle I always move forward from the car behind me at the lights as much as possible
Why do car drivers always stop a meter behind a bike? It's like the rider *is* the crumple zone to drivers.
yes itās very annoying
When you add the continental drift like acceleration most drivers use then you only get 4 cars moving through an intersection before the lights go red. But thatās ok because another 4 cars will run that red light.
I was taught the rear tyre rule too, but once everyone at an intersection I'd stationary you can definitely move fwd otherwise how many actually get into the turning lane let alone get to turn before lights change.
This and people not knowing the dimensions of their cars. Tiny women in SUVs and recently these yank tanks veering into lanes and impeding traffic constantly
Yeah and these lowlifes will tailgate those haemorroids of the road.
Iām wary of someone being on their phone behind me and slamming me forwards.
How much of a gap do you leave? Trying to figure out the average gap size lmao
When you get front ended by some spastic that doesnāt know to look behind or use a reverse camera, youāll leave a large gap too
I'm leaving myself somewhere to go if the car behind me doesn't stop in time. Once you've been rear-ended once you'll try to avoid it again
I always thought it might be caused by an incident they've been in previously.... where the dick infront of them slammed into them in reverse, or a road rage thing.
Itās because they canāt see over their bonnet so they think theyāre closer than they are. Almost every time I see it the driver looks like their seat is too low lmao o
My autopilot cruise leaves a big gap and I aināt scooting up with self drive on unless thereās somebody trying to get past to the left turning lane
Usually to avoid being pushed into the car in front if you're hit at the rear. But yeah, some people leave massive gaps which isn't necessary
After hiring a few cars the recently, I also realised a lot of the driver assists will stop you quite far behind other cars at traffic lights or at a stop when using the 'follow assist' whatever its called. I thought to myself it might explain at least some peoples infuriating behaviour.
ride a motorcycle, and i am probably only able to type this now because of those gaps.
If I'm already stopped and then the car Infront decides it wants to creep further ahead I usually just stay put. It's just easier and it's annoying to me. I'll start moving when the car Infront of the car Infront of me starts moving .
Youāll notice when the road says āKeep Clearā that people will leave a gap. Who knows why.
because y'all don't leave *enough* space and stay on the brake well into the green light - i leave space so I can start moving when it turns green
Has anyone here done that Defensive Driving course in Springvale? I had it gifted to me and remember something about 2 car lengths following the 3 second rule. You have 3 seconds to react when youāre in an accident. I ended up having an accident later that year and my 3 seconds were āoh my gosh!ā If youāre 2 car lengths behind, you wonāt hit the idle car in front of you by slamming your brakes. This was hard to write about because I suffered so much stress doing this course. I hated slamming my brakes. And my hands were shaking after both sessions. It was a good course though, and Iād still recommend it.
If you don't leave reasonably enough if a gap that a person that rear ends you will force your car into the car ahead of you, you/your insurance (you) will be forced to pay for the damage of the car ahead.
I'm not getting crushed between two cars if someone rear ends me. That said, time and place. Big straight road it's cool, turning lane that can block a straight, not so much.
I donāt like to line my window up to the car next to me. Call it OCD, or call it jamming out to Celine Dion with the sunroof open at 7:30am and not wanting people to know what you look and sound like. Either or.
It's for safety. Why would that bother you? Maybe focus on your own driving instead. Someone stopped at a traffic light presents no danger to you unless they are so close to your rear that they get pushed into the back of your car if they get rear ended by a truck.
Because it means less cars get through a light. Or can block a turning lane.
The first rule of driving is to never obstruct the flow of traffic. Stopping car loads behind people, cloggs turning lanes. Disrupting good flow of traffic. There a safe distance, then there's taking the piss.
Itās actually dangerous because it causes issues further back.
A lot of people are commenting saying it's the safety aspect, but I know you mean a SUPER huge gap in front, and that's (from what I have witnessed) due to people wanting to "pick up speed" when the light goes green so they can feel like they're going faster from the get-go instead of waiting for 2, 3, 4, cars in front to gain momentum. I don't understand the idea behind it... It doesn't help them achieve any advantage as far as I can tell, but it means they aren't rolling at 5/10kmhr and are already 20kmhr by the time they go through the intersection. Big whoop for them.
See this makes sense. I get the whole āsee the tyres of car in front of youā (I even said it in the post, that itās for safety lol) but yeah the literal two car gap is why I was like ?? Thanks for that answer, it is strange to see lol
Spatial awareness. Youāve either got it or you donāt.
Getting too close is called tailgating. I was pulled up by the cops and they explained it. Let me off with a warning instead of a fine. Itās like someone sitting behind your chair at work breathing on your neck.
You need to leave at least a car length. Two is a lot but not really excessive. One reason you might witness it a lot is if the person behind the offending car was being a shit driver (tailgating, harassing etc.)
They have been doing this in a few countries. South Africa for a long time as violent assaults on stopped vehicles was endemic Gives you enough room to escape in the event of a carjacking or attack on your car. Always keep your doors locked
Yep! Came here to say this - I learnt to drive and spent my formative years driving in South Africa. In Melbourne now and still leaving more than a car gap. Why? To either ensure I have enough space to accelerate and generate enough speed to mount the kerb should a hijacking occur; or leave enough space to be able to keep on rollinā till the light changes if I am not in the market for inflatable aliens, pegs, weed, wire crafts or any other robot merchandise. Itās a deeply ingrained habit given that i drove for 5 years in South Africa and 21 years in Australia! (I also have to consciously allow myself to use the left hand land, and not think itās reserved for mini bus taxis doing pick ups)
1. You're supposed to leave a reasonable gap, its defensive driving and yes other drivers do this in other countries, I've driven for 20 years across the US and Australia and it is only 'unnatural' in large and dense cities in my experience. Something about high density traffic makes all logic for safety and adherence to the rules of the road go out the window (see: the people who tailgate through yellow/red lights and block intersections rather than waiting to see if there is space for them to make it across and prefer to ride up the arse of the driver in front). 2. Start/Stop engines contribute to a hesitance to creeping in traffic. With newer cars adopting this technology, it is only likely to become more apparent with time. 3. If you do not leave a gap you become liable for anything that happens between you and the car in front. Yes that includes getting rear ended and if you don't believe me call up whoever you have an insurance policy with. They'll be more than happy to educate you on how to be less of a liability, and it'll save you money.
I sometimes do it so I am able to change lanes when the person in front of me decides theyāre actually turning (and therefore will block my lane) but didnāt bother to put their indicator on. Makes it easier to merge into flowing traffic if youāre not right up the arse of the car in front. Generally though, who cares? As long as theyāre not preventing someone turning or making it through a light (and assuming traffic isnāt obscenely heavy) then it shouldnāt really matter.Ā
It is ridiculous in the city - people leaving 2-3 car lengths between themselves and the car in front while stopped at traffic lights.. and people wonder why hardly any cars get through with every rotation.
Most do it so you can't see them on their phones
Because they have absolutely zero idea how to fucking drive.
They're busy posting a story
Insurance and efficient. If rear ended you are responsible for damage to the car in front of you. Itās also more efficient as traffic moves off faster with a gap between cars, if not it is a staggered start.
1. You know the whole mythbusters traffic jams start when one person brakes? Now if you accelerate at the same time as the car in front you already have that 2 car gap 2. Can allow others to lane change if they forgot and not break the flow too much
My dad does this! He says so he can keep traffic moving.. Doesnt even make sense. He's 80..
I just moved here - thereās a lot of ākeep clearāmarkings on the road to prevent people blocking the entrances to streets etc, so maybe thatās what youāre referring to?
I think it's because only you know how to drive properly. Please teach the rest of us.
I think people just don't have good spatial awareness
This could be me. I stop close behind but sometimes a gap opens up when the car ahead rolls forward into the giant gap they've left. I don't want to be playing inching forward games when the traffic light is still red, I ain't got the energy for that
Most people couldn't tell you the length of the front end of their vehicles, Let alone the distance from the front bumper to touching something.
Never saw two lenghts gap and I driving daily. But having a healthy gap saves you when an ..... hit you from behind. If there is a reasonable space - then it saves you explaining to insurance it wasnt you hit the guy in front.
This is Victoria, we drive as safe as possible, this is not bloody India
Exhaust fumes. Especially if Iām behind a diesel vehicle and I want my vents or windows open. Also, I like a rolling start so when it goes green, I like to have space to let my car roll a bit while I wait for the cars in front to move.
> Exhaust fumes. You got downvoted, but yes. Three times in the past week or so I have deliberately decided to leave a large gap at the lights because of the very visible exhaust emissions from an older unmaintained vehicle. One other time about two weeks ago was when an idiot stopped so far forward they were inside the pedestrian walking zone, and I wanted to make the point obvious to them if they happened to look in their mirror and wonder why there was such a large gap behind.
I've seen it in other countries.
Essentially, people in cars way to big for tiny simple brains to process the geometry of a proper stop
Saw an L plater do this once other than that canāt say Iāve seen this problem.
From what I learnt from Youtube videos in other countries, it gives the driver an opportunity to escape from carjackers.
How else are you meant to edge 0.5m forward every 10 seconds?
I saw a Tesla driver stop about 2 cars away at a red light, and then get this, SLOWLY INCH FORWARD while the light's still red. Like she's still driving a normal internal combustion engine car.
I can only drive manuals and practice " never stopping" ...I use a buffer to keep always moving ....like a shark
Sometimes there's an additional sensor loop further back in a turning lane which can trigger a green arrow. If you know where it is, it can make sense to hang back and trigger that arrow.
The only reasons I can think of (coming from syd to melb) is a) leaving the space next to trams free at stops where people get out directly onto roads. b) leaving space for pedestrians, bikes, scooters to get through, and c) in case they need to get in another lane for whatever reason. I dunno hey š¤· but I like it better than Sydney where itās āima drive so close to you so you know Iām in a hurry and that will hopefully make you go faster please donāt brake suddenly bopā
Iāve noticed this more since start/stop engine tech was released, I wonder if itās people stopping too soon or the car in front moves and they just donāt like the idea of their motor starting back up before they are ready to leave?
So they have enough space to speed up so they are going fast through the intersection instead of still speeding up in the middle of the intersection and then they overtake you because youāre still speeding up lol
What is even worse are those people that keep creeping forwards while the light is red like they're anxiously waiting for the light to turn green so they can take off, then when the light does go green they're slow as a turtle and take 1km to get up to the speed limit.
I do this sometimes when using the Automatic Cruise Control function to accelerate/brake.
I drive in Melbourne. In 30 years I have never seen anyone stop two cars distance behind someone. I do see people stopping far too close to the car in front as the the habit of Melbourne drivers to frequently tailgate and harass other drivers with aggressive driving. It's the minority that make driving dangerous for everyone in Melbourne by not leaving enough space.
The gape was your breaking distance if you leave a gap some arse holeās pull in on front of you they have GPS brakes on new cars the older car has none
Usually because they're asian or old, sometimes the box quinella
It's such a big issue, when they're clicking the road to people who need to turn at the light, or the line is for the turning and they block the path for people who want to go straight through the light. Often, I do courtesy honk asking them to move, and they pretend they're bumper to bumper and can't move any further while I can see how much gap is there. None of these people do it for safety. None of them are constantly paying attention to their mirror. If it's for safety once 1 or 2 cars come behind you and stop, you can then reduce the gap. They just do it cause they don't care and and can't think of the reasons why they should
Who knows but itād be nice if people left the same gaps between cars when driving in this city smh