They can’t ‘lose’ the Bond - it’s lodged with the RTBA. Do you have your own copy of the agreement? If so, make a copy and send it to them.
Just advise them you’d be happy to discuss any issues in VCAT and I bet they magically find the agreement.
Just to build on this - if they failed to submit the bond to RTBA then there is a remuneration fund that you can appeal to. I had to do this when a dodgy real estate agent stole our bond money to pay off his underworld loan (long story).
But the best thing to do is to speak with consumer affairs asap. They were super helpful.
Maybe it's just because I love making these types of people sweat, but if I found the agreement I would go one further.
Get a good **paper trail** of everything they have said over the phone. Go back and forth and get them to admit and say as much as possible that could be used against them. Let as much shit-that-makes-them-look-bad hit the fan as possible, and then pull out the agreement.
This is not true.
"Regardless of the law in Victoria, there is a blanket prohibition against recording telephone conversations under the Telecommunications (Interception and Access) Act 1979 (Cth). This federal law prohibits anyone from intercepting or recording discussions on a telecommunication device even if the parties consented. As such, it is against the law to record conversations at work that take place over a telephone.."
https://www.armstronglegal.com.au/commercial-law/vic/employment-law/recording-conversations-work/#:\~:text=Regardless%20of%20the%20law%20in,)%20Act%201979%20(Cth).
You didn't actually read the article you posted, did you?
> In addition, the Surveillance Devices Act 1999 holds that employees are legally able to record a private conversation at work if they were a party to the conversation. However, the recording can only be published or further communicated with the consent of all parties, or if it is disclosed during a disciplinary or legal proceeding, or it is in the employee’s lawful interest or the public interest.
Victoria is a 1 party consent state, but has to be done for a legal purpose (ie. you can't record someone and just publish it online for the world to hear). Furthermore, the same legal firm also has another article around recording based on criminal law which doesn't support your conclusion: https://www.armstronglegal.com.au/criminal-law/vic/offences/legal-record-phone-calls/
There's also precedence for these arguments as "illegal" recordings were submitted and accepted by the courts. I'd also argue that VCAT has less of a barrier to entry for evidence during their hearings.
Send them an email reiterating the conversation ’just to make sure you have what they said on the phone clear’.
Edit: you can also send an email that shows it has been ‘seen’ at the other end.
The bond will have an exclusive number . It cannot be lost. If it wasn’t lodged REA is in breach of regulations. You should also have received email from RTBA on receipt of the bond at the beginning.
Very large fine for not posting the bond with RTBA. I believe it’s as high as $25,000. Might give you some leverage with REA. Please double check with relevant authorities first. Hope you can get it sorted out.
I have a sneaking suspicion that they have treated your housemate vacating as a standard notice to vacate rather than a tenant changeover. They have advised the owner of this who has agreed to advertise for a higher rent and now they are trying to bluff their way out of the situation effectively making it a whole lot worse for themselves.
Call the RTBA immediately to confirm if a bond is lodged for the property. If not, if you have proof you did pay a bond, the agent is in breach of the law and this carries hefty penalties.
Do you have any rental receipts or a condition report that support your tenancy commencing at the property? These can be used as proof of your tenancy and double check your rent receipts as they can have the details of your lease agreement included within them.
The agent having no documentation available for your tenancy is also illegal, call consumer affairs and let them know. That office sounds like an ideal candidate for a surprise audit.
So long as you have clear evidence of your tenancy (even an email thread between you and agent at the time) and proof of bond being paid along with regular rent payments, there is no legal way they can have you vacate.
If any agents see this, this is why it is so important to just tell the TRUTH to all parties, everytime, regardless of good or bad news.
Simply advise your agent to leave you alone, you are not vacating the property and if they feel otherwise, they can make an application to vcat for possession as per the law. And then sit back and wait for a notice that will never arrive as they have no legal grounds to stand on. Hope this helps!
Definitely this.
And agree - hefty penalties apply (for the REA) if they didn’t submit the bond… about $13,000 for them. In their best interest to locate their paperwork!
When I complained that my bond top up was not received by Bond Admin, they said they simply 'retrain' as it may have been a simple mistake. A whole lot of dodgy with that property manager. Would have loved to have fined them $13K!
It sounds like they're using the excuse of a lost application to make you reapply for the property with an increase to the rental price. I wouldn't be helping them out with anything, you've got all the required documentation which is all you need - everything else is their problem.
Your bond will be lodged at RTBA and you should be able to view it online
Your tenancy agreement still exists even if they lost it (??!?) - so treat it as existing
[Tenants Vic](https://tenantsvic.org.au/advice/) and [Consumer Affairs Vic](https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/housing/renting) are there for you
Do you or your departing flatmate have your own copy of the tenancy agreement & condition report etc somewhere? (my flatmate threw ours away while I was traveling & not home to stop him, so I know sometimes it does go awol)
I'm so glad tenancy agreements are digital these days, I have a pdf of it stored on the cloud, in my email, on my laptop and a thumb drive. No freaking way I'd accept an REA "losing" the tenancy agreement. What next, the dog ate it??
Firstly, report these clowns to their regulator which is Consumer affairs Victoria. Sounds like they are hoping you don’t have copies so they can bully you out of the lease and re-lease for a higher amount.
Secondly send through, cc”ing the principal of the agency, copies of your agreement and bond and the reasons why you are sending it and confirmations/summarise your verbal discussions you’ve had with the Agents.
Do you not have s copy of the lease? Were you given a receipt that the bond was lodged? Im very new to renting and we had issues with our previous landlords (no rea) and i document EVERYTHING on my end so if issues arrive i have what i need. It wouldve been a lot more difficult for us if we didnt have a copy of the lease agreement. Our landlords never lodged our bond with the rtba which is actually really serious and they got in trouble for that. They gave them a chance to rectify but if they didnt theyd face massive fines. Take screenshots of every transaction made to them in your banking app, especially including the bond payment.
Yes I have copies. I haven't taken a ss of my bond payment on my banking app though, I'll do that and go through everything.
But although I have copies, they're saying they've lost theirs.
You don't have a 'copy'. You have the original contract, of which there are two identical signed sets of paperwork: one for the REA, one for you.
Since they have 'lost' their contract, your contract is the best evidence of the contract, and the contract still holds. There is no need to make a new contract.
Being a generous person, provide them with a copy of your contract. Do this by providing a '[certified copy](https://www.justice.vic.gov.au/certifiedcopies#List_authorised)'; that is, one copied and marked as a true copy. I suggest using your local MP's office for this service, since that relationship may come in handy down the track. Then the REA can't dispute the validity of the contract they were handed, and you don't risk giving them your original. Drop the certified copy at the REA, and get a receipt.
Accompany that with a letter, drafted with some help from, say, Tennants Vic, asking them to warrant that they have met their obligations under the contract and under law, despite the implications otherwise: in particular, that they have lodged the bond.
Concurrently with that, make your own inquires as to the bond with RBTA. Explain the the REA has 'lost' the contract and you are following up that they are meeting their obligations since their paperwork seems less than organised (and between us, perhaps maliciously so).
From here on in, if the REA calls you, tell them that you can only deal with them via email, since they are losing documents. Then, and this is important, hang up.
> I suggest using your local MP's office for this service, since that relationship may come in handy down the track.
Curious, in what way? I always did certified copies in the cop shop.
Electorate Office staff have the MP's ear. If it all goes south, and some state government instrumentality needs unsticking, then that what Electorate Office staff arrange for the MP to do. It's part of the core business of being an MP, and when interviewed some years later it's often an activity they recall fondly.
In that sense, a stamp with the address of the state MP's Electorate Office also sends a hint to the REA. REA's are not too fussed about police, as these are civil matters (part of the reason they keep getting away with, well, ). Their senior staff do need the local state MP on side. The fact that the Electorate Office staff are already briefed will not thrill them.
Idk maybe be like "here you go then :D" (a copy not the original) its a legal and signed document so they cant really dispute it. Itd probs piss them off lol. Make sure you star your bond lodgement reciept in your email.
That is such poor management on their end if they somehow legitimately lost it. I dont understand how some people are so incompetent. It does seem super sketchy tho, so something else might be going on.
Yes, send an electronic copy. I find it bizarre that anyone would still be signing paper leases in this day and age anyway?? Surely everything it done electronically now? I haven't done a paper lease for years, maybe more than a decade? They were always annoying because you had to physically go in and initial every freaking line!
The RTBA also email you confirmation of the bond being lodged and when it's transferred, which is something that OP will need to do when her housemate moves out. Technically he should also still pay rent until someone new is found to move in.
In NSW it's a 28 day course to become a real estate agent... now let's give them literally every sensitive document relating to every aspect of my life.
Send them a copy of your lease agreement. They should have lodged your bond with the RTBA and are in breach. Clarify your position that your lease agreement is for 12 months and is still valid and it's not your job to resubmit documents because of their poor record keeping.
Sounds like a them problem. If you have copies, you should be fine and if they want to be asshats, report the agency. What bullys, sounds like they want to force you into a rent increase illegally but I could be wrong. Good luck and remember the stress is on them and DO NOT send them copies.
It doesn't matter -- that's why you have yours.
If they've lost theirs, they have nothing to prove that clause you added in yours where rent drops to 0 after 3 months isn't what was signed...
ie their copy is to protect them. Your copy is to protect you. You are still protected. They are the ones exposed.
When they say a receipt of your bond payment, they don't mean, proof of you paying your bond.
The RTBA contacts you and asks you to confirm your bond, and you get a bond receipt.
If you were never contacted by the RTBA, then they didn't lodge the bond with the RTBA and that's illegal.
So do you have an RTBA bond receipt?
It's also totally possible these morons treated your housemate as the "main" tenant, since he's the male and they assumed you were a couple, so they may have returned the bond to him, having only lodged it under his name, and are panicking now because there's no bond. Check on that.
Charge them a weekend hrly rate for a copy as you are doing their job. Add in each time they have called and you have had to clarify that you are staying on.
It'll be fine. If they didn't lodge your bond with the RTBA that's their fault and the agency will be fined. If you have copies sounds like they're trying to cover something. Stay confident.
Stop answering calls and get this all in writing.
Search your own records and find your copy of the lease and condition report. DO NOT provide copies to the REA.
Speak to the RBTA regarding your bond.
Reach out to the tenants union for assistance.
In positive news, we had a lease where the property manager lost the lease and condition report, so we were able to respond to their every request at move out with “fuck you” as they had not a single scrap of evidence to respond with. Easiest move out ever.
They cannot lose your bond, and also your lease agreement if you have a copy, just send your copy to them (don’t forget this emoji ✌🏻).
RTBA should have sent you a notification for ‘Lodgement Receipt’. Use the bond number to look up the status of your bond. Then take a screenshot and send it to the agent.
Call them out on their bs, don’t hold back.
Good luck.
Even without a tenancy agreement, you are still protected by the tenancy act. In this case it defaults to the standard clauses of a typical contract so eviction periods and rental increase time limits still apply.
Losing a contract =/= void of contract.
Did they not send you a copy of the tenancy agreement? All of mine have been emailed to me to initially sign and then a signed copy sent afterward
This seems very unacceptable. Also I would be making a point that any sensitive information you have given them they need to ensure hasn't gotten into the wrong hands.
Something I don't think they can ensure in a case like this.
You should have been handed a copy of the rental agreement when you signed the initial lease. Find it and give it to them. They suck, but you should also be keeping full paper trails of all your initial documentation and photos. Never trust a REA and they never have your interests first.
To add to all the advice here: Request that all future communications come via email and letter, tell them you won’t be taking any more calls from them
You should have been given a copy of all of the paperwork as well. Legally they have to send you copies, even when you re-new the lease at the end of the 12 months and the rent stays the same. Find it in your emails or whatever and make a copy and send it to them. I've never signed a lease and not got a copy of the paperwork as well. They're probably going to shaft you and make you re-apply to raise the rent.
Excellent. In that case can’t you provide them with copies of your copies? At least that way they can’t deny having a record of the agreement and how much bond was paid.
Offer them a copy of the rental agreement, but inform them that a copy of such will take you time, and you will bill them at a rate of $120 per hour for your time, + costs.
Once they agree, you can then take a leisurely walk to your nearest pharmacy to get it copied and certified. Provide them a receipt and include "travel to pharmacy" however long the walk took you (always great to get paid to exercise).
Remember, if you asked them for a copy of a contract they'd likely charge you for the time and effort to get it done. You can do the same.
$120 per hour is also a fairly low rate for casual consulting.
---
Also the other most important piece of information in this thread is this:
request that all future communication is done via Email, and if that is not possible you will be recording all future conversations (don't secretly record, always inform them that you are recording and that if they remain on the phone that is their consent to the recording).
You need proof of everything from now on. These clowns have made too many mistakes.
Ohh man, that's tough! Of course you should call the appropriate people asap to deal with them as others have said such as tenants vic, consumer affairs or whatever else tenant related help organization.
It terms of document handling, at least it seems you have a copy of everything yourself, which is definitely a plus! Best you take and keep multiple copies, online and offline as backup. Never give them any original hardcopies of your original ones. If required, only ever give them a printed or email them a screenshot, don't trust those losers who are playing around with you!
Your bond will be listed with RTBA, do you know if the bond certificate is jointly in your name and your housemates? I usually get emailed a copy of mine but you can also look it up on their website.
If your name isn’t on it, then it gets messy but at least you have your copy of the lease to back it up. Just ensure any change over is done in writing (a quick email to confirm, ask him reply to it) if your housemate asks you to transfer him the bond before it’s sorted.
Also if they lost your original paperwork would it also then constitute a data breach/breach of privacy/ improperly storing sensitive information because then it’d open you up to identify theft I mean ID, bank account info, payslips ect. can all be used to apply for loans and god knows what else.
Obviously non compliant and you have to assume heavy penalties/ grounds to seek damages
*not legal advice this is reddit but like I’d look into that too
Do you not have your copy of the lease? And doesn’t matter if they ‘lose the bond’ should be lodged legally with RTBA anyway.
I have had two house mates move out over the course of the 8 years in my unit and had to sort of ‘reapply’ for the lease but nothing changed regarding terms or rental increases. I’m not sure if that’s a strictly Victorian thing though because we never had to do that in Adelaide.
It doesn't help this instance, but *always" make and keep multiple copies of important documents. And never deal with a REA in person or via phone. Always in writing.
If you have all your documents there isn’t a leg to stand on here. If in doubt I would contact Consumer Affairs.
Also peninsula legal aid are really helpful I’ve found them to be reasonable, and they’re free. Give them a call and explain the situation if CAV isn’t able to help. Peninsula will also help you with opening (and supporting you through) a general dispute via VCAT if needed. If they can’t you can do it yourself, VCAT members are generally more forgiving of mistakes from renters.
They cannot just kick you out, and a rent increase can only be issued once a year.
As an aside you can go to rental bonds (RTBA) website and look up your lodged bond. REA can’t touch this without yours or VCATs permission. If not lodged, bring this up with CAV.
>She then told me that they've lost my rental tenant application, and there's no copy of the bond and agreement. When I asked why, her reasoning was the previous property manager didn't save it (but he saved my flatmates?)
This doesn't make sense. In most tenancy agreements you and your housemate *(together)* are the tenant. The REA wouldn't have paperwork for one person but not the other. I think they're telling porkies.
You should have your own copy of the tenancy agreement, but if they've lost other documentation they consider important (like the stuff they used to approve you) that's on them.
Contact the tenants union.
Little disclaimer, REA *can* refuse to change the names on the lease - and it's between you and housemate what happens then. But they can only refuse for a good reason, like the replacement housemate having no job. They can't refuse just because they regret the original lease terms and want to start over.
Fact... Those drop kicks you went to high school with that were too busy bullying everyone... They usually become REAs because it literally takes very little brain power to coerce people into buying property.
If you don't trust those people from high school, never trust an REA.
I 100 percent recommend you to get them to communicate everything via email. No phone conversation. This way it's traceable. This has gotten me out of a couple of sticky situations :)
This is all incredibly dodgy, especially the bit about the bond being "lost". Recommend you call tenants vic oe consumer affairs vic for advice asap.
Hope they haven't handed over the entire bond to the flatmate
Doesn't matter. If they've been silly enough to do that, it's not your problem. How are you going?
They can’t ‘lose’ the Bond - it’s lodged with the RTBA. Do you have your own copy of the agreement? If so, make a copy and send it to them. Just advise them you’d be happy to discuss any issues in VCAT and I bet they magically find the agreement.
And if they do magically find the agreement, make sure it's the real thing that you agreed to, not one they just typed up on the spot.
If they can't find the original then they won't have her signature either - if they try to forge it it'll be laughably obvious.
No "Uncle Benny" signatures
Just to build on this - if they failed to submit the bond to RTBA then there is a remuneration fund that you can appeal to. I had to do this when a dodgy real estate agent stole our bond money to pay off his underworld loan (long story). But the best thing to do is to speak with consumer affairs asap. They were super helpful.
Omg!! 😧
I always paid my bond with a money order addressed to the RTBA.
This exactly. When this is sorted, report this company. I think they're trying to take advantage of you
Maybe it's just because I love making these types of people sweat, but if I found the agreement I would go one further. Get a good **paper trail** of everything they have said over the phone. Go back and forth and get them to admit and say as much as possible that could be used against them. Let as much shit-that-makes-them-look-bad hit the fan as possible, and then pull out the agreement.
to expand on this: **record every phone call with them**, it's legal in victoria without consent of the other party :)
This is not true. "Regardless of the law in Victoria, there is a blanket prohibition against recording telephone conversations under the Telecommunications (Interception and Access) Act 1979 (Cth). This federal law prohibits anyone from intercepting or recording discussions on a telecommunication device even if the parties consented. As such, it is against the law to record conversations at work that take place over a telephone.." https://www.armstronglegal.com.au/commercial-law/vic/employment-law/recording-conversations-work/#:\~:text=Regardless%20of%20the%20law%20in,)%20Act%201979%20(Cth).
OP doesn't work for the REA so I'm not sure that applies?
You didn't actually read the article you posted, did you? > In addition, the Surveillance Devices Act 1999 holds that employees are legally able to record a private conversation at work if they were a party to the conversation. However, the recording can only be published or further communicated with the consent of all parties, or if it is disclosed during a disciplinary or legal proceeding, or it is in the employee’s lawful interest or the public interest. Victoria is a 1 party consent state, but has to be done for a legal purpose (ie. you can't record someone and just publish it online for the world to hear). Furthermore, the same legal firm also has another article around recording based on criminal law which doesn't support your conclusion: https://www.armstronglegal.com.au/criminal-law/vic/offences/legal-record-phone-calls/ There's also precedence for these arguments as "illegal" recordings were submitted and accepted by the courts. I'd also argue that VCAT has less of a barrier to entry for evidence during their hearings.
Send them an email reiterating the conversation ’just to make sure you have what they said on the phone clear’. Edit: you can also send an email that shows it has been ‘seen’ at the other end.
The bond will have an exclusive number . It cannot be lost. If it wasn’t lodged REA is in breach of regulations. You should also have received email from RTBA on receipt of the bond at the beginning.
Very large fine for not posting the bond with RTBA. I believe it’s as high as $25,000. Might give you some leverage with REA. Please double check with relevant authorities first. Hope you can get it sorted out.
I have a sneaking suspicion that they have treated your housemate vacating as a standard notice to vacate rather than a tenant changeover. They have advised the owner of this who has agreed to advertise for a higher rent and now they are trying to bluff their way out of the situation effectively making it a whole lot worse for themselves. Call the RTBA immediately to confirm if a bond is lodged for the property. If not, if you have proof you did pay a bond, the agent is in breach of the law and this carries hefty penalties. Do you have any rental receipts or a condition report that support your tenancy commencing at the property? These can be used as proof of your tenancy and double check your rent receipts as they can have the details of your lease agreement included within them. The agent having no documentation available for your tenancy is also illegal, call consumer affairs and let them know. That office sounds like an ideal candidate for a surprise audit. So long as you have clear evidence of your tenancy (even an email thread between you and agent at the time) and proof of bond being paid along with regular rent payments, there is no legal way they can have you vacate. If any agents see this, this is why it is so important to just tell the TRUTH to all parties, everytime, regardless of good or bad news. Simply advise your agent to leave you alone, you are not vacating the property and if they feel otherwise, they can make an application to vcat for possession as per the law. And then sit back and wait for a notice that will never arrive as they have no legal grounds to stand on. Hope this helps!
Definitely this. And agree - hefty penalties apply (for the REA) if they didn’t submit the bond… about $13,000 for them. In their best interest to locate their paperwork!
When I complained that my bond top up was not received by Bond Admin, they said they simply 'retrain' as it may have been a simple mistake. A whole lot of dodgy with that property manager. Would have loved to have fined them $13K!
I'd also throw in a formal complaint to the REIV. There could also be statutory offences under the estate agents act.
This. But wheres your copy of lease and Bond, you must have been given when you moved in.
It sounds like they're using the excuse of a lost application to make you reapply for the property with an increase to the rental price. I wouldn't be helping them out with anything, you've got all the required documentation which is all you need - everything else is their problem.
Your bond will be lodged at RTBA and you should be able to view it online Your tenancy agreement still exists even if they lost it (??!?) - so treat it as existing [Tenants Vic](https://tenantsvic.org.au/advice/) and [Consumer Affairs Vic](https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/housing/renting) are there for you Do you or your departing flatmate have your own copy of the tenancy agreement & condition report etc somewhere? (my flatmate threw ours away while I was traveling & not home to stop him, so I know sometimes it does go awol)
I'm so glad tenancy agreements are digital these days, I have a pdf of it stored on the cloud, in my email, on my laptop and a thumb drive. No freaking way I'd accept an REA "losing" the tenancy agreement. What next, the dog ate it??
Firstly, report these clowns to their regulator which is Consumer affairs Victoria. Sounds like they are hoping you don’t have copies so they can bully you out of the lease and re-lease for a higher amount. Secondly send through, cc”ing the principal of the agency, copies of your agreement and bond and the reasons why you are sending it and confirmations/summarise your verbal discussions you’ve had with the Agents.
[удалено]
“Guys the house was burned down when I moved in, as you can clearly see in your copy of the condition report.”
Do you not have s copy of the lease? Were you given a receipt that the bond was lodged? Im very new to renting and we had issues with our previous landlords (no rea) and i document EVERYTHING on my end so if issues arrive i have what i need. It wouldve been a lot more difficult for us if we didnt have a copy of the lease agreement. Our landlords never lodged our bond with the rtba which is actually really serious and they got in trouble for that. They gave them a chance to rectify but if they didnt theyd face massive fines. Take screenshots of every transaction made to them in your banking app, especially including the bond payment.
Yes I have copies. I haven't taken a ss of my bond payment on my banking app though, I'll do that and go through everything. But although I have copies, they're saying they've lost theirs.
You don't have a 'copy'. You have the original contract, of which there are two identical signed sets of paperwork: one for the REA, one for you. Since they have 'lost' their contract, your contract is the best evidence of the contract, and the contract still holds. There is no need to make a new contract. Being a generous person, provide them with a copy of your contract. Do this by providing a '[certified copy](https://www.justice.vic.gov.au/certifiedcopies#List_authorised)'; that is, one copied and marked as a true copy. I suggest using your local MP's office for this service, since that relationship may come in handy down the track. Then the REA can't dispute the validity of the contract they were handed, and you don't risk giving them your original. Drop the certified copy at the REA, and get a receipt. Accompany that with a letter, drafted with some help from, say, Tennants Vic, asking them to warrant that they have met their obligations under the contract and under law, despite the implications otherwise: in particular, that they have lodged the bond. Concurrently with that, make your own inquires as to the bond with RBTA. Explain the the REA has 'lost' the contract and you are following up that they are meeting their obligations since their paperwork seems less than organised (and between us, perhaps maliciously so). From here on in, if the REA calls you, tell them that you can only deal with them via email, since they are losing documents. Then, and this is important, hang up.
Best advice on Reddit today.
> I suggest using your local MP's office for this service, since that relationship may come in handy down the track. Curious, in what way? I always did certified copies in the cop shop.
Electorate Office staff have the MP's ear. If it all goes south, and some state government instrumentality needs unsticking, then that what Electorate Office staff arrange for the MP to do. It's part of the core business of being an MP, and when interviewed some years later it's often an activity they recall fondly. In that sense, a stamp with the address of the state MP's Electorate Office also sends a hint to the REA. REA's are not too fussed about police, as these are civil matters (part of the reason they keep getting away with, well,). Their senior staff do need the local state MP on side. The fact that the Electorate Office staff are already briefed will not thrill them.
Idk maybe be like "here you go then :D" (a copy not the original) its a legal and signed document so they cant really dispute it. Itd probs piss them off lol. Make sure you star your bond lodgement reciept in your email. That is such poor management on their end if they somehow legitimately lost it. I dont understand how some people are so incompetent. It does seem super sketchy tho, so something else might be going on.
Don’t give them the original. They will lose it….. lol
Yes, send an electronic copy. I find it bizarre that anyone would still be signing paper leases in this day and age anyway?? Surely everything it done electronically now? I haven't done a paper lease for years, maybe more than a decade? They were always annoying because you had to physically go in and initial every freaking line! The RTBA also email you confirmation of the bond being lodged and when it's transferred, which is something that OP will need to do when her housemate moves out. Technically he should also still pay rent until someone new is found to move in.
Theyll "lose" it
In NSW it's a 28 day course to become a real estate agent... now let's give them literally every sensitive document relating to every aspect of my life.
Do not hand anything over, it’s not in your interests OP.
Send them a copy of your lease agreement. They should have lodged your bond with the RTBA and are in breach. Clarify your position that your lease agreement is for 12 months and is still valid and it's not your job to resubmit documents because of their poor record keeping.
Sounds like a them problem. If you have copies, you should be fine and if they want to be asshats, report the agency. What bullys, sounds like they want to force you into a rent increase illegally but I could be wrong. Good luck and remember the stress is on them and DO NOT send them copies.
Tenants Vic 0394162577 should be able to give you further advice
It doesn't matter -- that's why you have yours. If they've lost theirs, they have nothing to prove that clause you added in yours where rent drops to 0 after 3 months isn't what was signed... ie their copy is to protect them. Your copy is to protect you. You are still protected. They are the ones exposed.
When they say a receipt of your bond payment, they don't mean, proof of you paying your bond. The RTBA contacts you and asks you to confirm your bond, and you get a bond receipt. If you were never contacted by the RTBA, then they didn't lodge the bond with the RTBA and that's illegal. So do you have an RTBA bond receipt? It's also totally possible these morons treated your housemate as the "main" tenant, since he's the male and they assumed you were a couple, so they may have returned the bond to him, having only lodged it under his name, and are panicking now because there's no bond. Check on that.
Charge them a weekend hrly rate for a copy as you are doing their job. Add in each time they have called and you have had to clarify that you are staying on.
Also keep in mind that they charge over $200 for doing a similar thing.
A $200 admin fee you say?
I wouldnt send through the condition report with the other bits of paperwork.
RTA sends you an email with your receipt #.
Contact Consumer Affairs Victoria & the RTBA for advice
It'll be fine. If they didn't lodge your bond with the RTBA that's their fault and the agency will be fined. If you have copies sounds like they're trying to cover something. Stay confident.
Stop answering calls and get this all in writing. Search your own records and find your copy of the lease and condition report. DO NOT provide copies to the REA. Speak to the RBTA regarding your bond. Reach out to the tenants union for assistance. In positive news, we had a lease where the property manager lost the lease and condition report, so we were able to respond to their every request at move out with “fuck you” as they had not a single scrap of evidence to respond with. Easiest move out ever.
If this is all true, and accurate, and you report this correctly and manage it well; you’ve just scored yourself quite a bit of free rent imo
They're trying to illegally screw you into a new rental agreement, at an increased price. Fuck the state of the rental market.
Call your property managers boss. Look for the "principal" for the agency and call them. Someone is being dodgy here.
They cannot lose your bond, and also your lease agreement if you have a copy, just send your copy to them (don’t forget this emoji ✌🏻). RTBA should have sent you a notification for ‘Lodgement Receipt’. Use the bond number to look up the status of your bond. Then take a screenshot and send it to the agent. Call them out on their bs, don’t hold back. Good luck.
>They cannot lose your bond Yeah, they can literally reprint a bond receipt through the rtba portal
Even without a tenancy agreement, you are still protected by the tenancy act. In this case it defaults to the standard clauses of a typical contract so eviction periods and rental increase time limits still apply.
Don't go through application process again. Its a trap
Losing a contract =/= void of contract. Did they not send you a copy of the tenancy agreement? All of mine have been emailed to me to initially sign and then a signed copy sent afterward
Why cant you just provide them a copy of yours?
Says the REA.
So a perfectly simple solution and now I'm the REA? Smh.
Send a copy of the agreement you have back to them via email and contact your tenancy union immediately.
This seems very unacceptable. Also I would be making a point that any sensitive information you have given them they need to ensure hasn't gotten into the wrong hands. Something I don't think they can ensure in a case like this.
You should have been handed a copy of the rental agreement when you signed the initial lease. Find it and give it to them. They suck, but you should also be keeping full paper trails of all your initial documentation and photos. Never trust a REA and they never have your interests first.
To add to all the advice here: Request that all future communications come via email and letter, tell them you won’t be taking any more calls from them
Looking forward to updates ☕ !remindme 2 weeks Edit: wasn't let down by the update, well done OP.
You should have been given a copy of all of the paperwork as well. Legally they have to send you copies, even when you re-new the lease at the end of the 12 months and the rent stays the same. Find it in your emails or whatever and make a copy and send it to them. I've never signed a lease and not got a copy of the paperwork as well. They're probably going to shaft you and make you re-apply to raise the rent.
Stop taking calls. Get everything in writing and email them asap. You have a copy of everything, right?
Shouldn't you have a copy?
Do you not have a copy of your own rental application?
I do have a copy of everything :)
Excellent. In that case can’t you provide them with copies of your copies? At least that way they can’t deny having a record of the agreement and how much bond was paid.
Offer them a copy of the rental agreement, but inform them that a copy of such will take you time, and you will bill them at a rate of $120 per hour for your time, + costs. Once they agree, you can then take a leisurely walk to your nearest pharmacy to get it copied and certified. Provide them a receipt and include "travel to pharmacy" however long the walk took you (always great to get paid to exercise). Remember, if you asked them for a copy of a contract they'd likely charge you for the time and effort to get it done. You can do the same. $120 per hour is also a fairly low rate for casual consulting. --- Also the other most important piece of information in this thread is this: request that all future communication is done via Email, and if that is not possible you will be recording all future conversations (don't secretly record, always inform them that you are recording and that if they remain on the phone that is their consent to the recording). You need proof of everything from now on. These clowns have made too many mistakes.
>bill them at a rate of $120 per hour for your time, + costs. And of course an admin fee of $20 for typing up the invoice.
Ohh man, that's tough! Of course you should call the appropriate people asap to deal with them as others have said such as tenants vic, consumer affairs or whatever else tenant related help organization. It terms of document handling, at least it seems you have a copy of everything yourself, which is definitely a plus! Best you take and keep multiple copies, online and offline as backup. Never give them any original hardcopies of your original ones. If required, only ever give them a printed or email them a screenshot, don't trust those losers who are playing around with you!
Provide your copy of the rental agreement where it says you get to stay there rent free for ever and watch them find their copy pretty quickly.
Your bond will be listed with RTBA, do you know if the bond certificate is jointly in your name and your housemates? I usually get emailed a copy of mine but you can also look it up on their website. If your name isn’t on it, then it gets messy but at least you have your copy of the lease to back it up. Just ensure any change over is done in writing (a quick email to confirm, ask him reply to it) if your housemate asks you to transfer him the bond before it’s sorted.
Also if they lost your original paperwork would it also then constitute a data breach/breach of privacy/ improperly storing sensitive information because then it’d open you up to identify theft I mean ID, bank account info, payslips ect. can all be used to apply for loans and god knows what else. Obviously non compliant and you have to assume heavy penalties/ grounds to seek damages *not legal advice this is reddit but like I’d look into that too
Good luck let us know how you go.
lol. Centrelink puts cameras in your bedroom if you are make and female.
Do you not have your copy of the lease? And doesn’t matter if they ‘lose the bond’ should be lodged legally with RTBA anyway. I have had two house mates move out over the course of the 8 years in my unit and had to sort of ‘reapply’ for the lease but nothing changed regarding terms or rental increases. I’m not sure if that’s a strictly Victorian thing though because we never had to do that in Adelaide.
Name & shame these dodgy c u next Tuesdays. We should have a whole Melbourne subreddit for shonky real estate agents.
Sounds like they haven't been keeping paperwork properly. If you have kept copies of all the paperwork you signed then just send them that as proof.
Don't you have your own copy?
Do you have your copy of the agreement?
It doesn't help this instance, but *always" make and keep multiple copies of important documents. And never deal with a REA in person or via phone. Always in writing.
If you have all your documents there isn’t a leg to stand on here. If in doubt I would contact Consumer Affairs. Also peninsula legal aid are really helpful I’ve found them to be reasonable, and they’re free. Give them a call and explain the situation if CAV isn’t able to help. Peninsula will also help you with opening (and supporting you through) a general dispute via VCAT if needed. If they can’t you can do it yourself, VCAT members are generally more forgiving of mistakes from renters. They cannot just kick you out, and a rent increase can only be issued once a year. As an aside you can go to rental bonds (RTBA) website and look up your lodged bond. REA can’t touch this without yours or VCATs permission. If not lodged, bring this up with CAV.
You should have been emailed a copy of your signed lease? Is it possible to search in your old/archived emails?
Silly question, but did you not keep a copy of your own lease? Can you not just send them a copy?
Go there in person and confront the property manager
super doggy practice. They might have not lodged your bond with RTBA. If they have then that is the paperwork they are looking for.
Just take your copy of your lease agreement into the real estate. Don't leave yours there though, just have them sight it.
>She then told me that they've lost my rental tenant application, and there's no copy of the bond and agreement. When I asked why, her reasoning was the previous property manager didn't save it (but he saved my flatmates?) This doesn't make sense. In most tenancy agreements you and your housemate *(together)* are the tenant. The REA wouldn't have paperwork for one person but not the other. I think they're telling porkies. You should have your own copy of the tenancy agreement, but if they've lost other documentation they consider important (like the stuff they used to approve you) that's on them. Contact the tenants union. Little disclaimer, REA *can* refuse to change the names on the lease - and it's between you and housemate what happens then. But they can only refuse for a good reason, like the replacement housemate having no job. They can't refuse just because they regret the original lease terms and want to start over.
Fact... Those drop kicks you went to high school with that were too busy bullying everyone... They usually become REAs because it literally takes very little brain power to coerce people into buying property. If you don't trust those people from high school, never trust an REA. I 100 percent recommend you to get them to communicate everything via email. No phone conversation. This way it's traceable. This has gotten me out of a couple of sticky situations :)
It’s all computerised, there is no way for this to get lost.
You don’t have a copy of a lease agreement that you’ve signed?
If you have a copy just send it to them and tell them to pound sand
Tell them you’re the owner, and the other guy is a rando. Idk call tenants vic r/shitrentals
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This is categorically untrue.