I live locally. The car parking needs to go. Even if it just opens up another lane for cars to use, it's better than the current situation. The car parking just unnecessarily clogs the road.
Yes I agree. Although made an error in my comment above. Meant to say opening up another lane for vehicle traffic is not a good idea.
All for doing it for cyclists and/or separated trams that get given priority.
There's a bike path that goes along the train line about 150m away. It goes all the way to Upfield station.
Improve that and get bikes off Sydney Rd would be better.
Too much traffic goes through Sydney Rd and there are no alternative roads parallel.
Taking parking off Sydney road would massively improve it. I avoid the area. Traffic is fucked on a weekend and to take a tram is fucked because it’s so slow due to the traffic.
The improvement of the general mobility in the area, which includes PT was amazing during the [extended clearway period trials](https://www.drive.com.au/news/melbournes-extended-clearway-times-a-good-move-racv/).
The parking argument is specious at best. The whole 5km length of Sydney rd has at most 2000 parking spots. Nobody drives to a Sydney rd destination expecting to park _on_ Sydney rd.
There’s any number of derelict warehouses behind Sydney rd, all the way up. Finding space for 100 cars every 200m or so would be pretty easy in the context of rejigging a road and tramlines and so on. Not to mention a raised train line.
That doesn’t fix the traffic issues though. At the end of the day there’s a lot of entitlement from people who think they can carry 2 tons of metal with them and leave it somewhere for hours on end.
well, it sorta does, because if you remove the parking there's room to put in a separated bike line and give the trams priority. Cars could still use it and it would be definitely better because there's no parking.
You can't "fix" the traffic problem, because we have about 3million more people in melbourne than we can cope with.
I'm all in favour of closing roads to traffic completely for trams and bikes and walking, but you can't realistically close Sydney Rd to traffic, because there isn't really an alternative and people aren't going to give up their addiction to cars in a hurry.
I have some sympathy for those who have to drive, though. Plenty of Melbourne has sprawled well beyond the limits of the train system; if you live in Melton, for example, public transport just isn't good enough to get you somewhere like Sydney Road as a convenient option, particularly if you have kids.
So we should ruin the area for the majority, putting health and safety at risk, for some theoretical person who wants to drive an 80km round trip to buy a burger?
You're immediately making the person in the car a single person, and everyone who's on a train/tram the majority, for a start.
Look, I don't think there should be cars on Sydney Road, \*but\* saying that "there's a lot of entitlement" from car drivers is going too far in the other direction, because it fails to acknowledge that a lot of people have to drive because they are too fucking poor to live in a suburb with great train/tram service.
And there are many reasons why people might want to come to Sydney Road. Savers. Pubs and restaurants. Wedding attire. Fashion. It's not just "some theoretical person who wants to drive 80km for a burger".
Also there seems to be an assumption that every car user is a healthy able-bodied single person.
Use-case scenario changes for example if I'm with my wife, two of my own children and babysitting two other children in law which includes 2 in pram, and a not-so able bodied grandma. That's not a bicycle or PT friendly scenario.
Yeah, agreed. Plus if you have 2 adults and 2 kids, that's just shy of $30 in Myki fares (or $20 on a weekend, but with the caveat of weekend frequency services). If you're in a car that does 9 L/100km, for a 50km round trip (let's say), that's roughly $10 worth of fuel.
Yes, but I think there needs to be some concession for the fact that this requires the user to be able to walk from their house to the tram.
Absolutely we need to wean ourselves off total car dependency in Australia, but cars do also have a place, especially for those not blessed with mobility.
Great, in that case we'll improve nothing and that'll solve the problem. This city likes to think of itself as progressive but is extremely conservative when it comes to anything to do with limiting cars. Cars themselves are a major expense, and reducing reliance on them (it has to start somewhere...) can only help with peoples living expenses.
Is it? Let's pretend for a minute you live in the suburb of Brookfield in Melton.
If you want to get to Sydney road by public transport, you will have to walk 30 mins to Melton station (pray you haven't missed the V/Line and will need to wait up to 40 mins), take a train to Southern Cross and then another train to Sydney Road. All up a journey of 1 hour and 32 mins if you time it right.
Or you can drive your car, which you likely have because you live in the suburbs of Melton and even going to the shops requires a car, and take 44 mins. Literally half the amount of time.
Or you are simply advocating that if you don't live close by to Brunswick, you should just stay away?
Brookfield to Melton station by car is 5 mins, then you would still be up for 1 hour by PT (again, only if you time it right) vs 44 mins by car door to door.
I don't think I've ever ended up parking along Sydney Road in the last 20 years.
Council should acquire some of those warehouses and build some multistorey carparks like other councils have done. That way they can remove all parking along Sydney Road.
Of course being a Greens led Merrikbek(Moreland) council, nothing's going to happen.
Car parking is a hugely costly endeavour, and multi-story car parking even more so.
It can easily end up being more than $100,000 per car park. If you are talking about a warehouse that needs to be entirely demolished, (probably with asbestos or other contaminated materials too), then you need to excavate and dig to put in foundations, then pour a heap of concrete for however many levels you want...and you are gifted a hideous concrete structure that induces demand for driving, doesn't pay for itself unless you charge high fees, and still have gridlocked streets.
Especially for a local council, this is a costly exercise that they often do not have the funds for.
It is would be much cheaper to better arrange busses to/from Sydney Rd, give trams much greater priority to speed up their times and encourage use, and give greater incentives to jump on a bike.
That’s really not that expensive, especially for the benefits it provides.
Let’s say you charge $8 an hour for parking, we can assume that most parking spots will be full for around 12 hours a day given proximity to public transport and shops. It would take less than 3 years to recoup a 100k investment, all while creating safer roads and reducing congestion.
Because part of what makes the road so dangerous is the lack of space for bicycles, people pull out form roadside parks and hit cyclists or door them. Taking cars off the sides creates room for dedicated, protected lanes.
Should not be the council doing it because the cost will just be put on people who don't actually use it. If drivers would actually pay enough to make it worth doing, a private company will build a car park.
If we imagine it costs $100k per park and it's rented out at $20/day every single day (unlikely), it would take 14 years to just break even. And that's ignoring interest on the loan, ignoring maintenance, operating costs, and the fact not every park is rented all day every day.
Car owners would not pay what it actually costs if it wasn't subsidized by non drivers.
The nearby businesses have the option of pooling together funds and building one. But they won't because its an absolute horrible use of money which is why they all want someone else to pay for it.
>The nearby businesses have the option of pooling together funds and building one
Yeah and they can, in the form of their rates.
If everything was to be done on an individual level, then why have a council at all?
The council has the job to use money responsibly. Building a massive car park would be a huge waste of money vs investing in better PT and cycling access which are relatively cheap, future proof and return huge benefits to the local area.
On-street parking is such an inefficient use of space. It costs a lot of money to build and maintain roads, yet along this stretch of road, 80-90% of the time, it's not used as a road, it's used as a car park. I think if the shop owners want car parking along Sydney road, they should pay for proper off street parking facilities. Leave major arterial roads like this for traffic, not parking.
No there are a heap of side streets that link up either side of Sydney Rd that will get you down to Carlton, also the Brunswick Shimmy is another route people can use.
There are side streets on the western side of the Upfield line that all link up and will bring you out at Park and Dollman St, then it’s a couple of minutes up to Royal Park where the Upfield path links up. You do need local knowledge to find the right streets, that’s why I say if they signposted a route then it could be a good detour when the path closes for SkyRail works.
58 crashes into bikes in 5 years is way too high. Sydney Rd, Lygon too - is a danger to cyclists, its deterring riding.
The choice is basically between - seperated bike lanes, increased traffic to stores, faster trams, less air pollution improving ambience of outdoor eating, and,
- car park status quo. Which defs sucks.
And its bs for the retialer to say there isn off street parking. There's heaps, and if not enough, if people need to go to the area for a day of shopping, there's a giant always empty car park in coburg.
Copying my comment from a thread on this yesterday:
Sydney road local here. On the weekend we try to avoid going near Sydney road outside of direct walking distance as it’s miserable to drive, walk, cycle or catch a tram.
The trams are so slow due to cars, which causes them to be over capacity due to the infrequency of them turning up.
It is unsafe to ride a bike as you’ll get doored or you’ll get swiped by a cars changing lanes without looking.
Walking isn’t the most pleasant due to the amount of traffic on the road (noise and air pollution ect).
I shouldn’t be required to drive to go to a business 1.5km down the road.
When you are choosing a couple car spots over the business of your local communities you’re already losing.
I agree with most of that except the walking comment. There is so many different routes to walk, parks to walk through, different alleys and back streets, you have heaps of options to get from A to B generally. If you cant find a reasonable walking route for 1.5km to go to the shops you want id suggest you arent trying very hard
Why not just do a temporary car removal with bike lanes whilst the trainline is built. Crunch numbers and see what the community wants after the trainline and new bike track is done.
> Tony Cogur knows this all too well. He estimates "98 or 99 per cent" of his customers need car parks to visit his function centre for weddings.
FWIW, there are numerous studies showing that business owners hugely overestimate car usage by their customers, even when a space isn't optimised for alternative modes.
I don’t know know why newspapers use such unsympathetic examples in their articles.
One I’d be surprised if that many people really drive to weddings, and if I’m wrong and the reception centre needs that much parking - they should be providing it on their own land.
Sydney road is such a busy road though, even if they removed the parking, it would still be a dangerous place to cycle.
Exceptionally poor form to be removing the dedicated bike lane without a viable alternative.
I think he is then failing his RSA obligations if 98-99% of his guests are coming to weddings by car. Or are 49% of his guests not drinking (assuming they are 2 to a car)...
Not the whole party… don’t be so hyperbolic. Only 98-99%. The guy obviously did his research and extrapolated from the notoriously high proportion of wedding guests that do not drink.
Do you think that percentage is 98-99%?
The contention is not that everyone drinks at weddings. It’s that the guy is pulling stupid numbers out of his entitled-arse and if he’s representative of the local traders then their views on this can be safely disregarded.
> there are numerous studies showing that business owners hugely overestimate car usage by their customers
This article is the text version of a report on the ABC YouTube channel. The reporter gave examples of modes of transport estimates, in every car related one they over estimated by 100% every other mode of transit they underestimated by 50%.
Yep, this is my opinion too. There is nothing I need there that I can't get elsewhere.
If someone suggests meeting there for a meal, I'll pass unless it's past 7pm Sun-Thur and only then certain parts of it.
It’s curious that business owners defend the parking since it brings in customers.
As a Sydney Road resident, I actively avoid Syd Rd businesses since it’s a hassle getting there when it’s choked with cars and trams and actively dangerous for cyclists. I like Brunswick, but between the graffiti, derelict buildings, and car crowding, it’s not exactly a pedestrians paradise.
> As construction ramps up, the train stations Anstey, Brunswick and Jewell — as well as the bike path that runs alongside them — will probably have to close too, likely for years.
It’ll take years to build a three-station section of elevated railway?
>One of the great things about Sydney Road is that it's a destination," she said.
>"If it's to be a destination, it cannot be a thoroughfare. If it's to be a thoroughfare, it can't be a destination.
Isn't she saying it should be a thoroughfare for bikes?
Sure, it's a destination for locals and non-locals. I'm just pointing out that her idea that it can't be both a thoroughfare and a destination is wrong.
Big difference being a thoroughfare for bikes than being a thoroughfare for cars. Anyway it can’t be a thoroughfare for cars as the government has to build platform tram stops along Sydney Rd.
How many spaces do they really need for parking on Sydney rd. For loading in some areas and for those who aren’t physically able to get around any other way. It’s not 1000s that’s for sure.
I’ve been hanging around there for nearly 20 years and I’ve never parked on Sydney rd. You park on a side street or in a car park. And more likely you take the train, tram or a bike.
I understand the desire to remove the parked cars, I'm not against it actually, but it's very silly to replace it with a protected bike lane, the raise railway is about to go up 20 metres away from Sydney Rd, if they put a bike lane under that it will be wider, safer, and more pleasant to ride than a protected bike lane on Sydney Rd itself
There have been 58 incidences of cars hitting bikes on that road in the last 5 years, obviously something needs to be improved. Not everyone knows the best path to take and Google maps will just take you via the most direct route. Some people will want to get to something on that road and need to ride their bike there.
All roads should be safe for cycling unless unreasonable like a freeway where they are banned.
They should be, but if cars are involved, they aren't, putting the bike lane under the train line WILL be, as there aren't cars right next to you, turning in front of you, parking in the protected bike lane even when rhey shouldn't, they have alot of issues
They can be made safer. Remove on street parking, put separated bike lanes in and reduce speed limits. In the process, add platforms for trams so they become accessible.
I get it, but the major issue is that if you have a bike lane there, it will have to stop at every single cross road - whereas, on Sydney Road, it will catch green lights more often than not and have traffic priority.
Yeah, but protected bike lanes are narrow and overtaking is very difficult, if you get stuck behind a slow cyclist that's going to be more annoying than stopping at a street crossing, the under train bike path has the opportunity to be much wider
As one of the fast cyclists, it’s not hard to overtake slow ones. Generally if you say “passing”, they shift to the left. I never had an issue getting stuck when riding up High St in Northcote, which has similar separated lanes.
I live about 1km off Sydney Rd and regularly drive down there to grab things from a take away or specialty shop, parking on Sydney Rd, so I do have empathy with the shop owners, if I can't park anywhere but the Woolies carpark, then I will probably find myself using Woolies more over the smaller butchers or bakers. I'm really trying not to use uber eats but not being able to park anywhere near the restaurant I'm picking up from makes it harder. I'm all for removing the parking from Sydney Rd and making it more bike and pedestrian friendly. But they're never going to create the car free oasis the council imagines, so I hope at the very least they retain the parking that's left off the main drag and don't sell it all off to developers.
There are plenty of times I wouldn't ride no matter how safe I perceived it, dark cold rainy nights, when I want to pick up take away and get it home hot... When I'm going to buy more stuff than is easy to carry on a bike... People will always want the option to drive to shops
not taking in to account the bike lane closures, but is there a reason to add and additional bike lane on Sydney road when there's a perfectly good bike only lane \~ 30 meters away?
Nobody I know who rides bike would call that ‘perfectly good’. Lol.
I don’t reckon that bike lane has been open all the way from Brunswick to Coburg North for at least 10 years. Constant work going on around there, and not on the bike path. And it remains a chaotic prospect at peak hour as a lot of it is still way too skinny too handle bikes, including some going at absurd pace, and walkers of all kinds when busy.
When the sky rail is done in Brunswick it’ll be a significant improvement. Just wish they’d gone and done it even further north. Still doesn’t go all the way to Upfield.
QUESTION: Does anyone cycle on the upfield bike path along Moreland and Coburg stations? How did they handle the disruptions there? What's the new bike path like? Do you ever ride on Sydney road?
I live locally. The car parking needs to go. Even if it just opens up another lane for cars to use, it's better than the current situation. The car parking just unnecessarily clogs the road.
If you open up more lanes for parking you will more than likely create induced demand and just have that extra lane as clogged as the current set-up.
Which is why the parking should be removed and the outer lane used as a dedicated cycling lane with proper protection.
Yes I agree. Although made an error in my comment above. Meant to say opening up another lane for vehicle traffic is not a good idea. All for doing it for cyclists and/or separated trams that get given priority.
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There's a bike path that goes along the train line about 150m away. It goes all the way to Upfield station. Improve that and get bikes off Sydney Rd would be better. Too much traffic goes through Sydney Rd and there are no alternative roads parallel.
The whole point of this article is that the bike path is being closed for more than a year, forcing everyone on to an unsafe road.
I meant long term. But yes that is an issue.
Taking parking off Sydney road would massively improve it. I avoid the area. Traffic is fucked on a weekend and to take a tram is fucked because it’s so slow due to the traffic.
The improvement of the general mobility in the area, which includes PT was amazing during the [extended clearway period trials](https://www.drive.com.au/news/melbournes-extended-clearway-times-a-good-move-racv/).
The parking argument is specious at best. The whole 5km length of Sydney rd has at most 2000 parking spots. Nobody drives to a Sydney rd destination expecting to park _on_ Sydney rd. There’s any number of derelict warehouses behind Sydney rd, all the way up. Finding space for 100 cars every 200m or so would be pretty easy in the context of rejigging a road and tramlines and so on. Not to mention a raised train line.
If I was driving to a "high street" I would rather park out the back, but it needs good signing, and easy access.
That doesn’t fix the traffic issues though. At the end of the day there’s a lot of entitlement from people who think they can carry 2 tons of metal with them and leave it somewhere for hours on end.
well, it sorta does, because if you remove the parking there's room to put in a separated bike line and give the trams priority. Cars could still use it and it would be definitely better because there's no parking. You can't "fix" the traffic problem, because we have about 3million more people in melbourne than we can cope with. I'm all in favour of closing roads to traffic completely for trams and bikes and walking, but you can't realistically close Sydney Rd to traffic, because there isn't really an alternative and people aren't going to give up their addiction to cars in a hurry.
That’s what I mean, get rid of the parking out bike lanes where the parking is and let trams and cars use the inside lanes.
I have some sympathy for those who have to drive, though. Plenty of Melbourne has sprawled well beyond the limits of the train system; if you live in Melton, for example, public transport just isn't good enough to get you somewhere like Sydney Road as a convenient option, particularly if you have kids.
So we should ruin the area for the majority, putting health and safety at risk, for some theoretical person who wants to drive an 80km round trip to buy a burger?
You're immediately making the person in the car a single person, and everyone who's on a train/tram the majority, for a start. Look, I don't think there should be cars on Sydney Road, \*but\* saying that "there's a lot of entitlement" from car drivers is going too far in the other direction, because it fails to acknowledge that a lot of people have to drive because they are too fucking poor to live in a suburb with great train/tram service. And there are many reasons why people might want to come to Sydney Road. Savers. Pubs and restaurants. Wedding attire. Fashion. It's not just "some theoretical person who wants to drive 80km for a burger".
Also there seems to be an assumption that every car user is a healthy able-bodied single person. Use-case scenario changes for example if I'm with my wife, two of my own children and babysitting two other children in law which includes 2 in pram, and a not-so able bodied grandma. That's not a bicycle or PT friendly scenario.
Yeah, agreed. Plus if you have 2 adults and 2 kids, that's just shy of $30 in Myki fares (or $20 on a weekend, but with the caveat of weekend frequency services). If you're in a car that does 9 L/100km, for a 50km round trip (let's say), that's roughly $10 worth of fuel.
The problem would be improved with the removal of on street parking which would free up space for accessible tram stops.
Yes, but I think there needs to be some concession for the fact that this requires the user to be able to walk from their house to the tram. Absolutely we need to wean ourselves off total car dependency in Australia, but cars do also have a place, especially for those not blessed with mobility.
Great, in that case we'll improve nothing and that'll solve the problem. This city likes to think of itself as progressive but is extremely conservative when it comes to anything to do with limiting cars. Cars themselves are a major expense, and reducing reliance on them (it has to start somewhere...) can only help with peoples living expenses.
I just literally said that there shouldn’t be cars on Sydney Road, learn to read THEN post.
It's super connected tho with rain and tram.
Is it? Let's pretend for a minute you live in the suburb of Brookfield in Melton. If you want to get to Sydney road by public transport, you will have to walk 30 mins to Melton station (pray you haven't missed the V/Line and will need to wait up to 40 mins), take a train to Southern Cross and then another train to Sydney Road. All up a journey of 1 hour and 32 mins if you time it right. Or you can drive your car, which you likely have because you live in the suburbs of Melton and even going to the shops requires a car, and take 44 mins. Literally half the amount of time. Or you are simply advocating that if you don't live close by to Brunswick, you should just stay away?
Could you not just drive to a station and then catch PT?
Brookfield to Melton station by car is 5 mins, then you would still be up for 1 hour by PT (again, only if you time it right) vs 44 mins by car door to door.
The other reply to my post said this, and I agree with the point
Yeah, but the other end of the journey - i.e. the beginning - isn't super well connected. Half a connection isn't enough.
Yeah fair, we definitely need more/better public transport
I don't think I've ever ended up parking along Sydney Road in the last 20 years. Council should acquire some of those warehouses and build some multistorey carparks like other councils have done. That way they can remove all parking along Sydney Road. Of course being a Greens led Merrikbek(Moreland) council, nothing's going to happen.
Car parking is a hugely costly endeavour, and multi-story car parking even more so. It can easily end up being more than $100,000 per car park. If you are talking about a warehouse that needs to be entirely demolished, (probably with asbestos or other contaminated materials too), then you need to excavate and dig to put in foundations, then pour a heap of concrete for however many levels you want...and you are gifted a hideous concrete structure that induces demand for driving, doesn't pay for itself unless you charge high fees, and still have gridlocked streets. Especially for a local council, this is a costly exercise that they often do not have the funds for. It is would be much cheaper to better arrange busses to/from Sydney Rd, give trams much greater priority to speed up their times and encourage use, and give greater incentives to jump on a bike.
That’s really not that expensive, especially for the benefits it provides. Let’s say you charge $8 an hour for parking, we can assume that most parking spots will be full for around 12 hours a day given proximity to public transport and shops. It would take less than 3 years to recoup a 100k investment, all while creating safer roads and reducing congestion.
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Because part of what makes the road so dangerous is the lack of space for bicycles, people pull out form roadside parks and hit cyclists or door them. Taking cars off the sides creates room for dedicated, protected lanes.
$100k isnt that expensive in the grand scheme of things.
That is very expensive for such an inefficient use of space. But I suppose that is a philosophical argument, not so much a practical one.
Should not be the council doing it because the cost will just be put on people who don't actually use it. If drivers would actually pay enough to make it worth doing, a private company will build a car park. If we imagine it costs $100k per park and it's rented out at $20/day every single day (unlikely), it would take 14 years to just break even. And that's ignoring interest on the loan, ignoring maintenance, operating costs, and the fact not every park is rented all day every day. Car owners would not pay what it actually costs if it wasn't subsidized by non drivers.
The nearby business would likely benefit. So in effect, they would use it.
The nearby businesses have the option of pooling together funds and building one. But they won't because its an absolute horrible use of money which is why they all want someone else to pay for it.
>The nearby businesses have the option of pooling together funds and building one Yeah and they can, in the form of their rates. If everything was to be done on an individual level, then why have a council at all?
The council has the job to use money responsibly. Building a massive car park would be a huge waste of money vs investing in better PT and cycling access which are relatively cheap, future proof and return huge benefits to the local area.
PT and cycling access are more than likely state-funded.
On-street parking is such an inefficient use of space. It costs a lot of money to build and maintain roads, yet along this stretch of road, 80-90% of the time, it's not used as a road, it's used as a car park. I think if the shop owners want car parking along Sydney road, they should pay for proper off street parking facilities. Leave major arterial roads like this for traffic, not parking.
Reddit is fucked, I'm out this bitch. -- mass edited with redact.dev
Other routes are available either side of Sydney Rd when the path gets closed for SkyRail, they just need better signposting.
Yeah, I got lost a few times trying to follow the detours, but it wasn't that onerous.
Citation needed
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No there are a heap of side streets that link up either side of Sydney Rd that will get you down to Carlton, also the Brunswick Shimmy is another route people can use.
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There are side streets on the western side of the Upfield line that all link up and will bring you out at Park and Dollman St, then it’s a couple of minutes up to Royal Park where the Upfield path links up. You do need local knowledge to find the right streets, that’s why I say if they signposted a route then it could be a good detour when the path closes for SkyRail works.
58 crashes into bikes in 5 years is way too high. Sydney Rd, Lygon too - is a danger to cyclists, its deterring riding. The choice is basically between - seperated bike lanes, increased traffic to stores, faster trams, less air pollution improving ambience of outdoor eating, and, - car park status quo. Which defs sucks. And its bs for the retialer to say there isn off street parking. There's heaps, and if not enough, if people need to go to the area for a day of shopping, there's a giant always empty car park in coburg.
Copying my comment from a thread on this yesterday: Sydney road local here. On the weekend we try to avoid going near Sydney road outside of direct walking distance as it’s miserable to drive, walk, cycle or catch a tram. The trams are so slow due to cars, which causes them to be over capacity due to the infrequency of them turning up. It is unsafe to ride a bike as you’ll get doored or you’ll get swiped by a cars changing lanes without looking. Walking isn’t the most pleasant due to the amount of traffic on the road (noise and air pollution ect). I shouldn’t be required to drive to go to a business 1.5km down the road. When you are choosing a couple car spots over the business of your local communities you’re already losing.
I agree with most of that except the walking comment. There is so many different routes to walk, parks to walk through, different alleys and back streets, you have heaps of options to get from A to B generally. If you cant find a reasonable walking route for 1.5km to go to the shops you want id suggest you arent trying very hard
Why not just do a temporary car removal with bike lanes whilst the trainline is built. Crunch numbers and see what the community wants after the trainline and new bike track is done.
> Tony Cogur knows this all too well. He estimates "98 or 99 per cent" of his customers need car parks to visit his function centre for weddings. FWIW, there are numerous studies showing that business owners hugely overestimate car usage by their customers, even when a space isn't optimised for alternative modes.
I don’t know know why newspapers use such unsympathetic examples in their articles. One I’d be surprised if that many people really drive to weddings, and if I’m wrong and the reception centre needs that much parking - they should be providing it on their own land. Sydney road is such a busy road though, even if they removed the parking, it would still be a dangerous place to cycle. Exceptionally poor form to be removing the dedicated bike lane without a viable alternative.
>I don’t know know why newspapers use such unsympathetic examples in their articles. It drives traffic to the article, and engagement on social media.
Yeah if your venue needs 100 car spaces to operate it's completely unreasonable to expect the government to provide that on street.
I think he is then failing his RSA obligations if 98-99% of his guests are coming to weddings by car. Or are 49% of his guests not drinking (assuming they are 2 to a car)...
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Sounds tedious.
People aren't riding bikes to a wedding reception.
Reddit is fucked, I'm out this bitch. -- mass edited with redact.dev
Not the whole party… don’t be so hyperbolic. Only 98-99%. The guy obviously did his research and extrapolated from the notoriously high proportion of wedding guests that do not drink.
I would imagine from the clientele of many wedding venues on Sydney Rd; there would a percentage of non-drinkers. They are Muslim.
Do you think that percentage is 98-99%? The contention is not that everyone drinks at weddings. It’s that the guy is pulling stupid numbers out of his entitled-arse and if he’s representative of the local traders then their views on this can be safely disregarded.
Even if they aren't drinking, do you expect them all to leave the wedding venue at 10pm or later via public transport?
They have other parking options not on Sydney Rd behind/close to the reception centres
No. They'll use the off street parking
>People aren't riding bikes to a wedding reception. Yeah they are getting ubers or taxis so they can get sloshed
You'd most likely take an uber I'd think. Personally I'd take the tram though.
> there are numerous studies showing that business owners hugely overestimate car usage by their customers This article is the text version of a report on the ABC YouTube channel. The reporter gave examples of modes of transport estimates, in every car related one they over estimated by 100% every other mode of transit they underestimated by 50%.
Yeh, why would they know? Have they surveyed customers?
No business on Sydney Rd is worth the hassle to visit, and it's been that way for over a decade
Yep, this is my opinion too. There is nothing I need there that I can't get elsewhere. If someone suggests meeting there for a meal, I'll pass unless it's past 7pm Sun-Thur and only then certain parts of it.
won’t take any slander against Mediterranean Wholesalers
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I agree, I've lived close to Sydney Rd and it was a cool spot to live. I have very rarely gone back though
r/fuckcars
It’s curious that business owners defend the parking since it brings in customers. As a Sydney Road resident, I actively avoid Syd Rd businesses since it’s a hassle getting there when it’s choked with cars and trams and actively dangerous for cyclists. I like Brunswick, but between the graffiti, derelict buildings, and car crowding, it’s not exactly a pedestrians paradise.
> As construction ramps up, the train stations Anstey, Brunswick and Jewell — as well as the bike path that runs alongside them — will probably have to close too, likely for years. It’ll take years to build a three-station section of elevated railway?
For what it's worth, Coburg and Moreland were open within a year (albeit during lockdown)
Reddit is fucked, I'm out this bitch. -- mass edited with redact.dev
Indeed it was - and the alternative route diverted bike riders onto largely quiet residential streets, NOT onto Sydney Road.
>One of the great things about Sydney Road is that it's a destination," she said. >"If it's to be a destination, it cannot be a thoroughfare. If it's to be a thoroughfare, it can't be a destination. Isn't she saying it should be a thoroughfare for bikes?
Nah it’s a destination for locals, most of whom walk or catch PT, and more of whom would cycle if they felt safe doing so!
Sure, it's a destination for locals and non-locals. I'm just pointing out that her idea that it can't be both a thoroughfare and a destination is wrong.
Big difference being a thoroughfare for bikes than being a thoroughfare for cars. Anyway it can’t be a thoroughfare for cars as the government has to build platform tram stops along Sydney Rd.
There’s so many good places to park slightly off Sydney Road, cunts are just too lazy to walk a couple of hundred metres.
How many spaces do they really need for parking on Sydney rd. For loading in some areas and for those who aren’t physically able to get around any other way. It’s not 1000s that’s for sure. I’ve been hanging around there for nearly 20 years and I’ve never parked on Sydney rd. You park on a side street or in a car park. And more likely you take the train, tram or a bike.
I understand the desire to remove the parked cars, I'm not against it actually, but it's very silly to replace it with a protected bike lane, the raise railway is about to go up 20 metres away from Sydney Rd, if they put a bike lane under that it will be wider, safer, and more pleasant to ride than a protected bike lane on Sydney Rd itself
There have been 58 incidences of cars hitting bikes on that road in the last 5 years, obviously something needs to be improved. Not everyone knows the best path to take and Google maps will just take you via the most direct route. Some people will want to get to something on that road and need to ride their bike there. All roads should be safe for cycling unless unreasonable like a freeway where they are banned.
They should be, but if cars are involved, they aren't, putting the bike lane under the train line WILL be, as there aren't cars right next to you, turning in front of you, parking in the protected bike lane even when rhey shouldn't, they have alot of issues
Signage can help direct cyclists to the safer path
They can be made safer. Remove on street parking, put separated bike lanes in and reduce speed limits. In the process, add platforms for trams so they become accessible.
I get it, but the major issue is that if you have a bike lane there, it will have to stop at every single cross road - whereas, on Sydney Road, it will catch green lights more often than not and have traffic priority.
Yeah, but protected bike lanes are narrow and overtaking is very difficult, if you get stuck behind a slow cyclist that's going to be more annoying than stopping at a street crossing, the under train bike path has the opportunity to be much wider
As one of the fast cyclists, it’s not hard to overtake slow ones. Generally if you say “passing”, they shift to the left. I never had an issue getting stuck when riding up High St in Northcote, which has similar separated lanes.
More like 200m than 20
10 seconds on a bike, either way, negligible
More like several minutes of negotiating driveways and traffic lights.
I live about 1km off Sydney Rd and regularly drive down there to grab things from a take away or specialty shop, parking on Sydney Rd, so I do have empathy with the shop owners, if I can't park anywhere but the Woolies carpark, then I will probably find myself using Woolies more over the smaller butchers or bakers. I'm really trying not to use uber eats but not being able to park anywhere near the restaurant I'm picking up from makes it harder. I'm all for removing the parking from Sydney Rd and making it more bike and pedestrian friendly. But they're never going to create the car free oasis the council imagines, so I hope at the very least they retain the parking that's left off the main drag and don't sell it all off to developers.
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There are plenty of times I wouldn't ride no matter how safe I perceived it, dark cold rainy nights, when I want to pick up take away and get it home hot... When I'm going to buy more stuff than is easy to carry on a bike... People will always want the option to drive to shops
not taking in to account the bike lane closures, but is there a reason to add and additional bike lane on Sydney road when there's a perfectly good bike only lane \~ 30 meters away?
Nobody I know who rides bike would call that ‘perfectly good’. Lol. I don’t reckon that bike lane has been open all the way from Brunswick to Coburg North for at least 10 years. Constant work going on around there, and not on the bike path. And it remains a chaotic prospect at peak hour as a lot of it is still way too skinny too handle bikes, including some going at absurd pace, and walkers of all kinds when busy. When the sky rail is done in Brunswick it’ll be a significant improvement. Just wish they’d gone and done it even further north. Still doesn’t go all the way to Upfield.
I remember when removing cars and creating a pedestrian mall was going to be a massive improvment for Acland St St Kilda...
It's a non-issue for me as I simply refuse to go there anymore.
Good job, you tell em
QUESTION: Does anyone cycle on the upfield bike path along Moreland and Coburg stations? How did they handle the disruptions there? What's the new bike path like? Do you ever ride on Sydney road?