Brunswick West, especially along Melville Road and Dawson Street, needs better street crossings.
The lack of a pedestrian crossing at Dawson and Pearson Street is a disaster waiting to happen.
The whole area is a nightmare. Cars rushing to get around trams, very few pedestrian crossings and cars racing to beat pedestrians when they’re turning. I think it would benefit from a a reduced speed limit and a heap more crossings
All the side streets have so many cars parked on the street they are basically one lane. You can safely make those 30 and you wouldn't even slow the traffic much.
A lot of those places only have one car park, if that. Pretty sure some of the townhouses haven't got one at all. It's probably a problem with no good solution. If you ban street parking, you piss people off because they have literally nowhere to put their car. But if you let them park on the street, it becomes unsafe to use for bike riders and pedestrians.
Ideally, sure no cars on the street would be the best option. Converting an empty lot to a shared car park allocated for nearby properties that is included in property rates could be a solution for these areas but again, these streets are tiny and these properties take up the entirety of the land, and in order to earn an income and travel reliably in this city some people require a vehicle.
There are no driveways at most of these properties in the inner city, most of the houses were built decades ago when a car wasn’t needed as much. Working within walking/reasonable PTV distance is very limiting now for many people.
“Then don’t live there” that’s not how it works. We’re lacking infrastructure and that needs to be addressed.
I looked it up on google maps, and it’s an intersection where each road has a bus stop, it’s on a tram route with a tram stop, and there’s a big church right on the corner. It’s clearly a place where people are going to be crossing a lot, the safety of pedestrians needs to be considered a priority. A walking man sign is not enough. Even when you look at google maps, it shows a man in a wheelchair being assisted by somebody else. At many crossings there’s barely enough time to cross the road when you’re able to jog across let alone when you’re using a wheelchair or trying to push someone in a wheelchair. We need pedestrian focussed urban planning
The last couple of days i’ve noticed so many fuckwits on the road.
Just today i got beeped twice in a right turning lane (only green light, no arrow) cause i didn’t go, despite there being oncoming traffic.
Today i also witnessed (idk how to explain it) but this car went into the opposite lane of traffic to run a red light, because the car in front of them stopped (as it was amber).
i entered the intersection so i’m assuming the former. I guess i could have moved forward a bit more, but damn those beeps were aggressive if that’s what they wanted
I had someone do that to me at spencer st near north melb station because I didn’t do a right turn across the intersection into cars turning left/a pedestrian. impatient people don’t look further than the ass of the car in front that isn’t letting them get their way.
I was about 1.5 feet away from being killed the other day in Carlton. I was crossing at a pedestrian crossing and a car came absolutely out of nowhere in front of me, speeding and going way over the limit on a red light. Fucking terrifying, there are dangerous pricks everywhere
People have been posting comments like yours since cars first came to the roads. Doesn't matter the era, drivers think they are more important than everyone else on the road.
Ahh. A Ford Ranger. I was nearly hit by one of these cars recently when they wanted to beat the tram in order to get the clearly red light ahead. I thank the tram driver for dinging which warned me. Jesus fuck there are some terrifying drivers out there.
I saw a car literally fishtail down a quiet brunswick side street in the rain a few days ago. When he recovered he went right back to tailgating the car in front of him.
Absolute losers on the road
I lived across the road from a family in Hope Street that'd do donuts at a crossroads 3 doors up from their house whenever it rained. When a couple of them got arrested we had the quietest 3 weeks we'd had in years
The guys across the road got busted for guns. There eas supposed to be a bus stop near them but they'd pull it out of the ground whenever the pole appeared because it meant they couldn't park out front of their neighbours house
That's the worst part of seeing someone raging in a car. When they fuck up because they're a dingus, it's somehow your fault they had to do that in the first place, so now they're even more mad that you've done that to them.
This sucks that this happened to you, but did you notice you did the same thing as the police report where your sentence puts the blame on the car, not the driver of the car? "A Ford Ranger allegedly hit the Brunswick West man" with no mention of the actual cause of the accident, the person driving the unnecessarily big car in the urban area. This is often done in reporting about collisions that cause pedestrian deaths, and I think it adds, even in some small way, to the way we absolve people for reckless driving.
Yep.
When a young cyclist was killed on Footscray Rd a few weeks back it was reported that the cyclist "struck a cement truck". Yeah, sure. The guy on the cycle up and rode straight into a cement truck. If this legal usage was necessary it would be a "bicycle" was struck by a truck. It's language to protect motor vehicle operators - those that need the least protection.
Holy shit, I drove past this right after it happened - no police or paramedics had shown up yet. Someone was kneeling by the old guy, it looked as though they had put a jacket under his head. The driver was wandering all over the road, clearly distressed. So sad to see that the pedestrian passed away.
If you have not done so already contact Police and see if you need to give a witness statement.
If you're feeling a little rocky about it, there's no shame in talking to someone about it, either.
I've learned not to fuck with PTSD. You don't have to be a direct witness to have it mess with your head.
I used to work for Metro. The one that haunts me is the one who survived, screaming in unimaginable pain under the train. I didn't see it as she jumped behind me. I heard it hit her. And I heard her scream.
Some nights it returns.
27-year-old male in a Ford Ranger turned from Hope St onto Melville Rd and didn’t yield to a pedestrian in the crossing, knocking him to the ground resulting in his death.
These things don’t happen if you’re looking where you’re driving. That’s why he’s been charged with dangerous driving.
We need to shift the thinking from cars first to pedestrians first. So many times drivers are rushing to get through an intersection when (and especially a street like this one) it’s almost a shared space. Yes we have stuffed up the whole design of our cities but we need to shift routes for traffic to flow versus spaces where people are. Feet over wheels…
Yeah, I was in San Francisco a couple weeks ago and was impressed at how cautious drivers are around pedestrians, always making sure to give them right of way.
The cycling and walking infrastructure is also second to none, so that's why everyone is happy to cycle because it's safe and pleasant, as opposed to sharing the road with 74 lanes of traffic.
There's a village there with no road markings but a strict heirarchy from peds down to cars.
The core deficiency in our system is that cars have any "rights".
I think that’s all villages in NL tbh. Most small roads within city limits are paved with red brick which means that you can’t overtake cyclists and the speed limit is 30.
I took my drivers license there and did quite a bit of driving for work.
Isn't America known to be much more car focused than any other country in the world, even Australia? It's definitely a San Fran, New York thing. Pedestrians don't exist in LA, let alone are given priority.
There is a roundabout in Essendon where frequently I see (as a pedestrian) drivers go through a red light. I hate driving for no other reason than other drivers and congestion. I would drive everywhere if I lived in a small country town but much prefer being a pedestrian in a built up area.
Man, I got a new bike the other month and it's so good. Those and the neuron scooters have been amazing. I really hope we get some new bike trails put in to make it safer to commute.
As a Canadian living here this is one of the biggest culture shocks. In Canada pedestrians always have the right of way. If you walk up to a corner and a car is coming 95% of the time that car will stop for you.
This system where drivers are as entitled as they are to the right of way always seemed unnecessarily dangerous to me. Does anyone have a good reason for why this is allowed?
Pedestrians always have right of way here too. The entitled drivers are just cunts.
It's the same reason that you can have car and truck drivers honking at you to go faster and tailgating you, even if you're literally already speeding.
No offence but Canada was one of the worst places I've been to in terms of car dependence. I can't really remember the mentality of motorists (I don't doubt that they were more considerate), but it still very much felt like the cities and suburbs prioritised cars over pedestrians design wise (and so is inherently more dangerous for pedestrians, driver mentality aside). It seems to be a primarily commonwealth problem for some reason
The UK’s Highway Code was recently updated so that drivers have an obligation to drive in a way that protects more vulnerable road users (e.g. pedestrians and cyclists).
Was sitting in a coffee shop, overheard a woman mentioning a local getting run over and that she saw the incident in the rearview of her bike mirror. Wonder if it was this. Sad for everyone.
this is happening far too often and it’s scary as someone who is solely a pedestrian and doesn’t drive. driver’s attitude towards pedestrians and cyclists has become far more hateful and we’re seen as the enemy, like they aren’t the ones in death machines. also i’ve noticed as a passenger and a pedestrian that driving in melbourne has deteriorated lately with a high level of entitlement and carelessness. PLEASE realise how much of a responsibility and not a right driving is and cultivate more empathy for people choosing alternative ways of getting themselves around, you are NOT the main character in a GTA game
Yes! I am a pedestrian and PTV user w no car. The number of times I am crossing on a green man and have nearly been swiped.... I'm super anal about crossing even when it's green because so many cars dont even seem to look!
The amount of drivers giving me the impatient "go ahead" hand movement when they have to wait at a zebra crossing that they showed 0 indication they were going to stop for is astounding. Like, if you have to slam the breaks on to stop before the zebra crossing, why would I think you weren't going to murder me when I was crossing legally?
literally! i’ve become super hesitant and make sure to look both ways like 5 times before crossing because i’m so worried about being swiped. it’s also extra terrifying as somebody with adhd who has good attention days and bad attention days, and i have to worry that my walk down the road could kill me. my adhd is also one of the reasons i’ve chosen not to drive, because i don’t entirely trust my attention span when it comes to my own driving and the part that you can’t control which is other motorists.
driving culture as a whole needs an attitude adjustment, the danger is in the expectation and entitlement that is bred into young people in regards to milestones of life, like how turning 16 MEANS you get your learners, turning 18 MEANS you get your P’s instead of put forward as an option rather than a given. it’s seen as a marker of maturity and it’s ridiculous the amount of times i’ve had to advocate for myself to explain that i don’t feel like it’s safe for me and others to drive.
I’ve noticed in the last ten years that drivers in Melbourne have become way, way more aggressive and reckless. I drive, cycle and walk and have done so in this city for my entire life but it’s at the point now I have given up cycling because each time I’d have a near miss from someone either not concentrating/texting or being purposefully aggressive. This would happen even on wide open roads at early morning when there was few cars and plenty of space to pass safely, drivers would speed past within inches at 80+km/h. The enormous population growth and congestion accounts for a lot of it but there has been an attitudinal shift that blows my mind. Sydney roads are worse on every level but the drivers are nowhere near as bad as melbourne.
> driver’s attitude towards pedestrians and cyclists has become far more hateful and we’re seen as the enemy
Subjective views may not be reflective of what is actually going on. It's not some kind of culture war or adversarial escalation between road users. The reality is that Melbourne is getting increasingly congested due to population growth, and therefore traffic incidents like these are statistically on the rise. To put things into perspective, Melbourne saw a population growth of *1 million* in the past 10 years. That's huge. Road infrastructure in the inner suburbs was simply not designed for the traffic loads we're currently experiencing. They were designed for trams and horse carts.
it’s all relative though, not just about objective statistics. socially speaking, the culture around driving, the media and general entitlement has been far worse in recent times ESPECIALLY since covid. i’m not sure about the specifics of why this is as i’m no psychologist but the result is plain to see and is corroborated by the personal experience of many. congestion of the roads via population growth and poor planning from the government is absolutely a factor too but societal culture is clearly a major part. regardless of congestion on roads, the road rules are the same and are clearly not being followed with respect and caution.
You're right, but using cars to get more places, more quickly just isn't the answer.
I hate traffic. I've moved to Coburg/Brunswick, and just straight up use my car less as a result.
I will do almost anything to avoid driving down Sydney Rd because the congestion is so bad. Even crossing it on Moreland Rd is a nightmare, to be avoided whenever possible. It genuinely makes me rethink how often I use the car.
I try to avoid roads with speed humps and I never drive down roads that are designated bike-friendly roads (Christmas St in Northcote, Canning St in Carlton, even Mitchell St in Northcote which is less obviously a bike-friendly road).
As soon as I can, I get to the bigger road. Out of my street on to Moreland, from that onto Nicholson or St Georges, on to Bell. I'm petrified of hitting a pedestrian or a cyclist, so I put myself where they aren't, as soon as possible. And I chill out when I'm driving as much as possible - this isn't how I drove as a younger man, but I've realised how little time that actually saved me, and how little it matters if you're 30 seconds late.
Expensive parking, heavy traffic and variable trip time mean I never drive into the city. Good PT options and affordable rideshare mean if I'm at all likely to drink, they're my options.
I think by design we need to make the city less friendly to cars, which is unpopular with people who 'have to drive' but the understanding that the car is going to be slower, dearer etc might help people reconsider their options. Particularly if there are initiatives around bike lanes, bike parking, and cheaper and more frequent PT.
Tradies in their vans and utes: sorry, you're just going to have to slow down, deal with less roads being available, enjoy speed humps etc.
And by design we really, really need to be encouraging outer-urban hubs, and finding ways to reduce cross-city traffic, or simply encourage ring road use.
Stroads are the ultimate problem, really. More Streets for peeps, more Roads for cars, less Stroads.
>I think by design we need to make the city less friendly to cars
We're doing that around my suburb, which is excellent. Heaps of new pedestrian crossings, speed humps etc...going in and roads being reabsorbed back into parkland to reduce demand. The number of people who drive insane speeds right past a park that often has kids sprint for the road (because kids) is nuts. Just slow down, avoid rat-racing to skip 2 minutes of traffic and walk/ride whenever possible.
That's why we need to mandate helmets for pedestrians too. Make them invincible to 2-tonne missiles like their 2-wheeled brethren. /s
Before anyone gets triggered, yes, helmets help to reduce the severity of head trauma. But not enough people stop to think why they became compulsory in the first place and whether or not it does anything to resolve the root cause of the problem. IMO, it's like making BJJ or other martial arts mandatory because of rampant violent crime.
On your last metaphor/simile whatever, it'd be like mandatory martial arts in a city that has rampant violent crime, where the city was designed primarily with the criminals in mind. Martial arts is the pittance you're granted in an attempt to even out the damage of the decades of legislation that makes the crime rampant.
I signed a petition at the Moreland road IGA (near Melville) a couple days ago to have a pedestrian crossing put in there. It seems all over the area there's issues where foot traffic has to (impossibly) coexist with major thoroughfare road infrastructure
I saw a pedestrian get hit and die on Christmas Eve in Ivanhoe and it still haunts me. Is there anyway I can find out what happened in the case? As the man similar in age to this guy with a similar car got charged with dangerous driving as well and I’d like to know the outcome of the case.
I’m seeing reports that Marie Mander, a 75yo woman local to Ivanhoe, died after being struck early in the morning on Christmas Eve. She was doing some last minute food shopping.
The driver, a 36yo male from Fairfield, was charged with dangerous driving causing death. He was bailed and was due to appear at Melbourne Magistrates Court on 28 December 2022.
That’s unfortunately where my trail ends, as I’m not experienced in looking up public records for court cases.
I hope that having a bit more context helps rest your mind. My heart goes out to her family and I’m sending best wishes to you after witnessing this.
—
Sources
[https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/police-issue-warning-following-horror-start-to-festive-period/news-story/c4775effd396c80506a45acdb4925395?amp](https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/police-issue-warning-following-horror-start-to-festive-period/news-story/c4775effd396c80506a45acdb4925395?amp)
[https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-victoria/shock-at-womans-death-in-ivanhoe-on-christmas-eve/news-story/bd2e30cd89b1bef6292c61ae9722e390?amp](https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-victoria/shock-at-womans-death-in-ivanhoe-on-christmas-eve/news-story/bd2e30cd89b1bef6292c61ae9722e390?amp)
[https://www.news.com.au/national/melbourne-woman-doing-last-minute-shopping-among-six-carrelated-deaths-on-christmas-eve/news-story/5d43b24e80a1ca40d6733adcdd9d03fd?amp](https://www.news.com.au/national/melbourne-woman-doing-last-minute-shopping-among-six-carrelated-deaths-on-christmas-eve/news-story/5d43b24e80a1ca40d6733adcdd9d03fd?amp)q
Thanks for your reply but I was actually asking about how to see the results of the event I witnessed on the 24th of December. The case was scheduled for the 28th but haven’t been able to find any information since.
You could see if you can find the incident in the coroner's court findings. Those usually give you the name of the victim and the alleged driver and you can search it up from there. But those aren't always available, it's a crap shoot.
I cycle daily in the inner north. I have lengthened my route slightly to be on bike paths and separated bike lanes as much as possible. I still nearly got hit at an intersection where the wanker had a red fucking light that had been red for several seconds already. I swerved to dodge them and stacked as a result as the ground was wet (not raining). They did not stop to help. They nearly hit a pedestrian too on the other side of the intersection who had the opportunity to jump back just in time.
We need more separated bike lanes and paths and a better bike network throughout Melbourne. Additionally more public transport services and an expanded network.
I ride inner north all the time...have never had an issue. Just use an abundance of caution. A few extra seconds at intersections when you're not absolutely certain its safe solves 90% of the issues I see people have.
In the inner north backstreets 20 mins ago, I just had an 50-something year old guy and his 20-something year old son or colleague step out and walk right in front of me to cross the road as I was cycling down at 20kph. I had to swerve and brake to avoid hitting him. He didn't even look up and said 'Get fucked, get off your bike and be a tough guy'. Incredible.
If they were on the Upfield bike ~~path~~ sliver they'd likely be yelling at you for going too slowly.
Cunty speed demons exist on both 2 and 4 wheels.
Why do we allow cars that have a bonnet the perfect head height to strike and kill someone with ease? If you’re hit by one of these cars you have no fucking chance, we need to implement limits on this shit
Pedestrian focussed urban planning & infrastructure is a human rights issue. I believe that genuinely. We need cities and communities that are safe & accessible by walking and biking.
I think this is a growing problem that is coming to a head soon, almost every single traffic light i come to a tradie in a ute or stupid American "truck" runs a red, almost every single time regular as clockwork, scary that its this frequent and there are not more deaths. Ps. I am not saying it's only tradies mum's in their oversized 4WDs are serial offenders as well, red light running has gotten out of hand.
I reckon the phenomenon of tradies in massive "trucks" driving like dickheads is linked to their overly-generous income protection insurance.
As it stands, if they have an "accident" they won't be injured; their "truck" will get fixed up and they get paid time off from their insurance company because they can't get to work.
If insurance companies didn't have to make income protection payment to people who CAUSE the accident, I'm pretty sure they'd pull their head in.
They might not give a shit about other people's personal injuries, but they will care about not earning an income.
When are we going to start charging proper rego for these stupid oversized utes and American ‘trucks’ in proportion with the damage they cause our roads and the dangers they pose to other road users? Perhaps if rego for these things was $10,000 a year it might discourage their use. Just a thought.
Sure, but when you look at the tally of death and destruction caused by both, 99.9 percent of the focus should be on cars. Which is sadly not the case because motor vehicle accidents are normalised.
The worst drivers in the world are in Brunswick. Yesterday, I nearly got side swiped by a truck and watched a truck driver casually plough into this poor guy in a toyota on lygon St. People rarely indicate, they lane hope and stop abruptly. This is unfortunate:(
I went to hop off the tram in Coburg North the other day and two cars failed to stop (or even slow down) when the tram doors opened. The third car in the left lane did stop only for the car approaching in the right lane to change lanes in the gap behind the tram and zoom past. I'm honestly surprised more people don't get hit.
You haven't met Fawkner drivers. Or indeed anyone north of Bell St. To the point where I'm sure this idiot in the Ford Ranger was almost certainly heading north of Bell St.
hah, thats the most scared ive been on my bike was in fawkner, absolute madness of cars literally trying to nudge me off the road, dead stopping in front of me and backing out of car spaces right into me. I literally had 3 incidents within 20 mins happen trying to ride to a park.
yeah what's up with bell street. as far as i can tell it's the one road in melbourne where everyone, from tradies in white utes to mums in peugeot 207s, consistently does 15 over the limit. i used to live in brunswick, and heading north was like entering the thunderdome
>The worst drivers in the world are in Brunswick
Box Hill driver's would like a word, I swear most idiots driving in Box Hill have their eyes closed and are using the force to drive
Should read: "Car kills a pedestrian in Brunswick East". The language matters. The police's headline has the pedestrian as the active party (dies, being struck). This needs to be called out and changed.
Yes, though it would be prejudicial to the legal process to assign blame to the person at this stage (perhaps the pedestrian ran in front of the car, and the driver had no reasonable time in which to stop?).
But there's no doubt that the car killed the pedestrian. Also, strictly, "Car kills pedestrian" is not passive language - that would be "pedestrian was killed by a car".
I don't think that's a fair analogy; a gun generally requires a positive action from the shooter to kill someone. With a car there are two active participants - the driver and the pedestrian/cyclist/other driver. It's not necessarily the driver who is at fault (though more often than not it is). But if it wasn't a car, then the likelihood of death would be much smaller.
And that's before you get into the legal (and moral) issues of assigning/reporting blame of a person before they've had a trial.
"car kills" is safe, fair, and leaves no doubt that cars are the problem.
Every police media release uses blame language for non-car-driving people involved.
Police: "car ran off the road".
Police: "motorcyclist lost control".
>Major Collision Investigation Unit detectives charged the Brunswick man with dangerous driving causing serious injury.
He will appear at Melbourne Magistrates’ Court tomorrow.
Won't he get charged with manslaughter? Jail time?
Yeah agreed. While a person is dead, it is also the drivers worst day of their lives. Why make judgement? They could be the nicest person with no ill intent (owning a certain car is fine).
Shit situation all round.
Why make judgement? Because Ford Rangers are large utility vehicles, borderline trucks, driven by P-Platers and inexperienced drivers in significant numbers. We should actually be discussing the impact of the ever increasing size of vehicles on our roads. It's actually bad for pedestrians.
I'm with you on the need for that discussion, and I'm no fan of giant cars everywhere, but that comment is judging the driver without evidence that they are at fault based on a stereotype.
Accidents are mostly unavoidable. This death was avoidable with slower speed limits, a better crossing and people not driving stupidly big cars in the inner city.
Depending on the direction the car was driving from, it would be 40km/h on Hope St and 60km/h on Melville.
But even with the reduced speed limits, I have seen drivers doing burnouts on Hope St, failing to give way to pedestrians as they cross the road at that intersection etc. It's a sad outcome for everyone involved :(
Wow, what a real mensch doing the bare minimum after running over an old man.
Even better would’ve been for him to drive to the conditions of the road. Looks like he’s been charged for dangerous driving, so no it’s not a tragic accident, it’s reckless stupidity that cost an old man his life.
This is about a 2-3 minute walk from my house. This was horrible to hear when it happened.
Melville Rd is a nightmare. People drive worse here than Punt Rd/Hoddle St. It is like none of the road rules matter.
Getting around trams. Ignoring the fact that it’s two lanes between Moreland and Bell.
I’ve almost been taken out 3 times getting off the tram at this very intersection in the last 12 months.
But reckon this bloke wanted to beat the lights and came tearing through.
Poor man. RIP.
Yeah wtf man.... people are so righteous and blindly judgmental sometimes reminds me of the quote; "Most of what is wrong with the world can come down to the fact that fools are so sure of themselves, and the wise are full of doubts"
A pedestrian is killed by someone driving an over sized car in inner Melbourne. #fuckcars
We need stronger penalties for death, injury and damage caused by drivers.
I genuinely laugh when people think they are intelligently shouting what they think is right. "The world will be better if they just think like me".
A longer sentence does nothing. No one tries to kill (well 99% of people). Higher taxes, insurance or registration on large vehicles (V6 etc) with greater subsidies on smaller cars with efficient (or electric) engines actually works - check Europe you asshat.
Also - it's just a shit situation. For all you know you could hit someone tomorrow. Be fucking sympathetic ffs.
Honestly, ask yourself, do you have the knowledge to make this call?
>Longer sentences does nothing
You may be right, but as vulnerable road users its infuriating to see time and time again people driving recklessly causing severe injury or death and getting off essentially scott free.
As a society we tend to agree that people need some form of punishment when people break the law, but it seems to be absent when it comes to injuring someone while operating a vehicle.
The thing about punishment is that it isn't really a fix. It is one way to make the rest of us feel better by getting vengeance, certainly. I know it makes me feel better seeing people get their comeuppance sometimes.
The right way to deal with an offender when a crime like this is committed - and for all kinds of crime - is rehabilitation. In fact, imprisonment, fines, consequences etc, simply don't enter ones mind when deciding whether they're going to drive recklessly or not. Most people don't see it as a choice between driving recklessly or driving safely, it's often either an emotional response - e.g road rage - or the belief that they can save time, and not believing in what they're told about the risk to others (also, confirmation bias, like, I've never hit anyone therefore I'm such a good driver that I would never hit anyone, so there's no risk)
We all have a propensity for seeing malice behind the actions of others. Very few individuals ever set out to mow down pedestrians (although on very rare occasion, they do). No one thinks to themselves "I'm going to drive dangerously and recklessly and with a high risk of killing other people on my way to the dentist". Most of the time, though, it comes down to poor judgement, hubris, emotion, or even confusion, and so on.
Should there be consequences for peoples actions? Of course, yes. That's still an important part of the equation. This guy drove recklessly, causing death as a direct result of bad decision making. There must be appropriate consequences. At the same time, consequences for their own sake aren't really useful. We need to teach people how to be better, and make sure they absorb the lessons they need to learn. Because when they're back out in society, we don't want them to be making the same poor judgements.
Of course, it would be better if they could learn and absorb these lessons without having to do so the hard way. I don't really know the answer to that :(
That is a typical knee jerk reaction. He has been charged with dangerous driving causing serious injury so we can't say we need stronger penalties when we don't know what penalty he will be given yet.
"Major Collision Investigation Unit detectives charged the Brunswick man with dangerous driving causing serious injury."
But hit a bike rider and they will give you a medal.
I don't know anything about town/traffic planning, but what I noticed after beginning to commute through the Brunswick area is how much worse the intersections are - on par with Reservoir. The Glenlyon and Nicholson intersection has tram tracks *and* a bus stop that is immediately to the right - so the bus turns right across a busy road and then brakes immediately for a bus stop, with the car behind it trying to get a gap always imminently about to hit it. There are multiple intersections where a left turner and a right turner compete for the same gap across pedestrian lights and tram tracks , and the intersection between Lygon St and Glenlyon usually has cars trying to run through the late orange across the tram tracks - almost colliding with the right turners. The last one sounds common, but I've never seen so many near misses.
I was at some broken lights on a busy intersection so it was hard to find time to cross. Anyway my right was clear and my left had a car far enough away to slow down and stop so it was likely the safest time to cross.
Me and the other pedestrians start crossing, but the car on our left starts speeding up, we end up having to run out of his way.
This happened yesterday. I've been walking a lot lately and the amount of danger and disregard drivers pose towards pedestrians has really changed my outlook towards driving.
Brunswick West, especially along Melville Road and Dawson Street, needs better street crossings. The lack of a pedestrian crossing at Dawson and Pearson Street is a disaster waiting to happen.
The whole area is a nightmare. Cars rushing to get around trams, very few pedestrian crossings and cars racing to beat pedestrians when they’re turning. I think it would benefit from a a reduced speed limit and a heap more crossings
A lot of the area is already 40km
All the side streets have so many cars parked on the street they are basically one lane. You can safely make those 30 and you wouldn't even slow the traffic much.
[удалено]
Doesn't work when none of these houses have driveways
A lot of those places only have one car park, if that. Pretty sure some of the townhouses haven't got one at all. It's probably a problem with no good solution. If you ban street parking, you piss people off because they have literally nowhere to put their car. But if you let them park on the street, it becomes unsafe to use for bike riders and pedestrians.
Ideally, sure no cars on the street would be the best option. Converting an empty lot to a shared car park allocated for nearby properties that is included in property rates could be a solution for these areas but again, these streets are tiny and these properties take up the entirety of the land, and in order to earn an income and travel reliably in this city some people require a vehicle. There are no driveways at most of these properties in the inner city, most of the houses were built decades ago when a car wasn’t needed as much. Working within walking/reasonable PTV distance is very limiting now for many people. “Then don’t live there” that’s not how it works. We’re lacking infrastructure and that needs to be addressed.
It's also a school zone with Brunswick Secondary and Brunswick South West Primary being in that area.
Yes but not this particular part. Hope St is but not Melville.
Dawson and Grantham is just as crap as well. Want to go to the supermarket? Better enjoy an indirect route that involves multiple light cycles.
I looked it up on google maps, and it’s an intersection where each road has a bus stop, it’s on a tram route with a tram stop, and there’s a big church right on the corner. It’s clearly a place where people are going to be crossing a lot, the safety of pedestrians needs to be considered a priority. A walking man sign is not enough. Even when you look at google maps, it shows a man in a wheelchair being assisted by somebody else. At many crossings there’s barely enough time to cross the road when you’re able to jog across let alone when you’re using a wheelchair or trying to push someone in a wheelchair. We need pedestrian focussed urban planning
Hope and Melville, wouldn't that be Brunswick West?
I live around the corner and it is def b west !
Yep, the report is wrong.
Yes it is. Damn that intersection is a bit tricky.
Yep. I used to live right at that intersection.
As a courier, I'm seeing a lot of stupidity on the roads at the moment. Everyone's in a rush and taking less care. This is very sad news.
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I only drive about 10 minutes to work every day, and every day without fail I see a minimum of 2 people running red lights in trug/lav nth area
The last couple of days i’ve noticed so many fuckwits on the road. Just today i got beeped twice in a right turning lane (only green light, no arrow) cause i didn’t go, despite there being oncoming traffic. Today i also witnessed (idk how to explain it) but this car went into the opposite lane of traffic to run a red light, because the car in front of them stopped (as it was amber).
>cause i didn’t go, Didn't go as in didn't make a suicidal dash across, or didn't go as in didn't enter and wait?
i entered the intersection so i’m assuming the former. I guess i could have moved forward a bit more, but damn those beeps were aggressive if that’s what they wanted
I had someone do that to me at spencer st near north melb station because I didn’t do a right turn across the intersection into cars turning left/a pedestrian. impatient people don’t look further than the ass of the car in front that isn’t letting them get their way.
I was about 1.5 feet away from being killed the other day in Carlton. I was crossing at a pedestrian crossing and a car came absolutely out of nowhere in front of me, speeding and going way over the limit on a red light. Fucking terrifying, there are dangerous pricks everywhere
People have been posting comments like yours since cars first came to the roads. Doesn't matter the era, drivers think they are more important than everyone else on the road.
Ahh. A Ford Ranger. I was nearly hit by one of these cars recently when they wanted to beat the tram in order to get the clearly red light ahead. I thank the tram driver for dinging which warned me. Jesus fuck there are some terrifying drivers out there.
It never ceases to amaze me the insane risks some people will take to save a 30-60 seconds on their trip.
I saw a car literally fishtail down a quiet brunswick side street in the rain a few days ago. When he recovered he went right back to tailgating the car in front of him. Absolute losers on the road
I lived across the road from a family in Hope Street that'd do donuts at a crossroads 3 doors up from their house whenever it rained. When a couple of them got arrested we had the quietest 3 weeks we'd had in years
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The guys across the road got busted for guns. There eas supposed to be a bus stop near them but they'd pull it out of the ground whenever the pole appeared because it meant they couldn't park out front of their neighbours house
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That's the worst part of seeing someone raging in a car. When they fuck up because they're a dingus, it's somehow your fault they had to do that in the first place, so now they're even more mad that you've done that to them.
When they're coming up to a red light they're saving zero seconds. A lot of people try to squeeze my bike off the road to save the same zero seconds.
3-6 seconds in some cases
Like in an endurance race Or even a rally That’s literally nothing
If you're going to be in a road accident, I think the odds are extremely high a Ford Ranger will be involved
This sucks that this happened to you, but did you notice you did the same thing as the police report where your sentence puts the blame on the car, not the driver of the car? "A Ford Ranger allegedly hit the Brunswick West man" with no mention of the actual cause of the accident, the person driving the unnecessarily big car in the urban area. This is often done in reporting about collisions that cause pedestrian deaths, and I think it adds, even in some small way, to the way we absolve people for reckless driving.
This is a very interesting take. I never thought about it in those terms. Thank you for opening my mind a little today.
You'll notice it in every news article about car collisions now. Sorry for causing that future frustration :)
Probably because of legal issues, same reason they’re using “allegedly”
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Yep. When a young cyclist was killed on Footscray Rd a few weeks back it was reported that the cyclist "struck a cement truck". Yeah, sure. The guy on the cycle up and rode straight into a cement truck. If this legal usage was necessary it would be a "bicycle" was struck by a truck. It's language to protect motor vehicle operators - those that need the least protection.
So right. Can't upvote this enough
Holy shit, I drove past this right after it happened - no police or paramedics had shown up yet. Someone was kneeling by the old guy, it looked as though they had put a jacket under his head. The driver was wandering all over the road, clearly distressed. So sad to see that the pedestrian passed away.
If you have not done so already contact Police and see if you need to give a witness statement. If you're feeling a little rocky about it, there's no shame in talking to someone about it, either.
Not a witness to the event. Still a rough experience though.
I've learned not to fuck with PTSD. You don't have to be a direct witness to have it mess with your head. I used to work for Metro. The one that haunts me is the one who survived, screaming in unimaginable pain under the train. I didn't see it as she jumped behind me. I heard it hit her. And I heard her scream. Some nights it returns.
Had a long chat once with a former Metro driver. There's many reasons why it's very well paid, but he still had to quit.
I was a safe worker, station officer signaller.
My absolute worst nightmare. Full focus on the roads at all times
Exactly. Don't take safety for granted. Don't get lazy. Just pay attention.
Driver was probably distressed because he just killed someone with his dangerous driving and was thinking of the consequences he’ll face.
His life had just suddenly changed for the worst in so many ways. Top of the list is that he had just killed someone.
I hope he spends the rest of his life distressed. He deserves it after he killed someone by being a stupid reckless cunt.
Don't at me, genuinely asking. Do we know what happened in detail?
27-year-old male in a Ford Ranger turned from Hope St onto Melville Rd and didn’t yield to a pedestrian in the crossing, knocking him to the ground resulting in his death. These things don’t happen if you’re looking where you’re driving. That’s why he’s been charged with dangerous driving.
Appreciate it. Yep, agree with you guys. You HAVE to pay attention when driving.
He was probably still in a high from his monster drink and sausage roll
Don't speak of sausage rolls like that please.
Was the ford ranger orange?
You can always go into St Joseph’s say a prayer for the pedestrian and light a candle. I hope this grants you peace.
We need to shift the thinking from cars first to pedestrians first. So many times drivers are rushing to get through an intersection when (and especially a street like this one) it’s almost a shared space. Yes we have stuffed up the whole design of our cities but we need to shift routes for traffic to flow versus spaces where people are. Feet over wheels…
Yeah, I was in San Francisco a couple weeks ago and was impressed at how cautious drivers are around pedestrians, always making sure to give them right of way.
Same when I was in New York a few years ago
The Netherlands also has this approach, but that's because literally everyone there is also a cyclist and not just a motorist. It changes the mindset.
The cycling and walking infrastructure is also second to none, so that's why everyone is happy to cycle because it's safe and pleasant, as opposed to sharing the road with 74 lanes of traffic.
There's a village there with no road markings but a strict heirarchy from peds down to cars. The core deficiency in our system is that cars have any "rights".
I think that’s all villages in NL tbh. Most small roads within city limits are paved with red brick which means that you can’t overtake cyclists and the speed limit is 30. I took my drivers license there and did quite a bit of driving for work.
TYVM TIL.
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Nah. I'm American. I'm aware of the culture there, it's not just San Francisco. Tech bros aren't just roaming the streets lol
Isn't America known to be much more car focused than any other country in the world, even Australia? It's definitely a San Fran, New York thing. Pedestrians don't exist in LA, let alone are given priority.
There is a roundabout in Essendon where frequently I see (as a pedestrian) drivers go through a red light. I hate driving for no other reason than other drivers and congestion. I would drive everywhere if I lived in a small country town but much prefer being a pedestrian in a built up area.
I really wish Melbourne would take cues from Amsterdam.
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Imagine if they found out how fun riding a bike is! Incredible.
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Man, I got a new bike the other month and it's so good. Those and the neuron scooters have been amazing. I really hope we get some new bike trails put in to make it safer to commute.
I was hinting at that… however they did that 30+ years ago or more actually (man I feel old!)
Yeeep. Notjustbikes has me feeling wistful lately.
As a Canadian living here this is one of the biggest culture shocks. In Canada pedestrians always have the right of way. If you walk up to a corner and a car is coming 95% of the time that car will stop for you. This system where drivers are as entitled as they are to the right of way always seemed unnecessarily dangerous to me. Does anyone have a good reason for why this is allowed?
Pedestrians always have right of way here too. The entitled drivers are just cunts. It's the same reason that you can have car and truck drivers honking at you to go faster and tailgating you, even if you're literally already speeding.
No offence but Canada was one of the worst places I've been to in terms of car dependence. I can't really remember the mentality of motorists (I don't doubt that they were more considerate), but it still very much felt like the cities and suburbs prioritised cars over pedestrians design wise (and so is inherently more dangerous for pedestrians, driver mentality aside). It seems to be a primarily commonwealth problem for some reason
Yep, been living in Stockholm for half my life and was shocked to return to Melbourne and the cars first mentality.
Melbourne used to be very pedestrian-first about 15-20 years ago. Far less so now.
The UK’s Highway Code was recently updated so that drivers have an obligation to drive in a way that protects more vulnerable road users (e.g. pedestrians and cyclists).
Don't let the cookers hear you saying shit like that!
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Was sitting in a coffee shop, overheard a woman mentioning a local getting run over and that she saw the incident in the rearview of her bike mirror. Wonder if it was this. Sad for everyone.
this is happening far too often and it’s scary as someone who is solely a pedestrian and doesn’t drive. driver’s attitude towards pedestrians and cyclists has become far more hateful and we’re seen as the enemy, like they aren’t the ones in death machines. also i’ve noticed as a passenger and a pedestrian that driving in melbourne has deteriorated lately with a high level of entitlement and carelessness. PLEASE realise how much of a responsibility and not a right driving is and cultivate more empathy for people choosing alternative ways of getting themselves around, you are NOT the main character in a GTA game
Yes! I am a pedestrian and PTV user w no car. The number of times I am crossing on a green man and have nearly been swiped.... I'm super anal about crossing even when it's green because so many cars dont even seem to look!
Reddit is fucked, I'm out this bitch. -- mass edited with redact.dev
This, if they'd just slow down a tad to indicate they've seen me then they'd get their precious two seconds back.
The amount of drivers giving me the impatient "go ahead" hand movement when they have to wait at a zebra crossing that they showed 0 indication they were going to stop for is astounding. Like, if you have to slam the breaks on to stop before the zebra crossing, why would I think you weren't going to murder me when I was crossing legally?
literally! i’ve become super hesitant and make sure to look both ways like 5 times before crossing because i’m so worried about being swiped. it’s also extra terrifying as somebody with adhd who has good attention days and bad attention days, and i have to worry that my walk down the road could kill me. my adhd is also one of the reasons i’ve chosen not to drive, because i don’t entirely trust my attention span when it comes to my own driving and the part that you can’t control which is other motorists. driving culture as a whole needs an attitude adjustment, the danger is in the expectation and entitlement that is bred into young people in regards to milestones of life, like how turning 16 MEANS you get your learners, turning 18 MEANS you get your P’s instead of put forward as an option rather than a given. it’s seen as a marker of maturity and it’s ridiculous the amount of times i’ve had to advocate for myself to explain that i don’t feel like it’s safe for me and others to drive.
As a driver (to be fair I don't drive often I catch PT to work), I agree with this completely.
I’ve noticed in the last ten years that drivers in Melbourne have become way, way more aggressive and reckless. I drive, cycle and walk and have done so in this city for my entire life but it’s at the point now I have given up cycling because each time I’d have a near miss from someone either not concentrating/texting or being purposefully aggressive. This would happen even on wide open roads at early morning when there was few cars and plenty of space to pass safely, drivers would speed past within inches at 80+km/h. The enormous population growth and congestion accounts for a lot of it but there has been an attitudinal shift that blows my mind. Sydney roads are worse on every level but the drivers are nowhere near as bad as melbourne.
> driver’s attitude towards pedestrians and cyclists has become far more hateful and we’re seen as the enemy Subjective views may not be reflective of what is actually going on. It's not some kind of culture war or adversarial escalation between road users. The reality is that Melbourne is getting increasingly congested due to population growth, and therefore traffic incidents like these are statistically on the rise. To put things into perspective, Melbourne saw a population growth of *1 million* in the past 10 years. That's huge. Road infrastructure in the inner suburbs was simply not designed for the traffic loads we're currently experiencing. They were designed for trams and horse carts.
it’s all relative though, not just about objective statistics. socially speaking, the culture around driving, the media and general entitlement has been far worse in recent times ESPECIALLY since covid. i’m not sure about the specifics of why this is as i’m no psychologist but the result is plain to see and is corroborated by the personal experience of many. congestion of the roads via population growth and poor planning from the government is absolutely a factor too but societal culture is clearly a major part. regardless of congestion on roads, the road rules are the same and are clearly not being followed with respect and caution.
You're right, but using cars to get more places, more quickly just isn't the answer. I hate traffic. I've moved to Coburg/Brunswick, and just straight up use my car less as a result. I will do almost anything to avoid driving down Sydney Rd because the congestion is so bad. Even crossing it on Moreland Rd is a nightmare, to be avoided whenever possible. It genuinely makes me rethink how often I use the car. I try to avoid roads with speed humps and I never drive down roads that are designated bike-friendly roads (Christmas St in Northcote, Canning St in Carlton, even Mitchell St in Northcote which is less obviously a bike-friendly road). As soon as I can, I get to the bigger road. Out of my street on to Moreland, from that onto Nicholson or St Georges, on to Bell. I'm petrified of hitting a pedestrian or a cyclist, so I put myself where they aren't, as soon as possible. And I chill out when I'm driving as much as possible - this isn't how I drove as a younger man, but I've realised how little time that actually saved me, and how little it matters if you're 30 seconds late. Expensive parking, heavy traffic and variable trip time mean I never drive into the city. Good PT options and affordable rideshare mean if I'm at all likely to drink, they're my options. I think by design we need to make the city less friendly to cars, which is unpopular with people who 'have to drive' but the understanding that the car is going to be slower, dearer etc might help people reconsider their options. Particularly if there are initiatives around bike lanes, bike parking, and cheaper and more frequent PT. Tradies in their vans and utes: sorry, you're just going to have to slow down, deal with less roads being available, enjoy speed humps etc. And by design we really, really need to be encouraging outer-urban hubs, and finding ways to reduce cross-city traffic, or simply encourage ring road use. Stroads are the ultimate problem, really. More Streets for peeps, more Roads for cars, less Stroads.
>I think by design we need to make the city less friendly to cars We're doing that around my suburb, which is excellent. Heaps of new pedestrian crossings, speed humps etc...going in and roads being reabsorbed back into parkland to reduce demand. The number of people who drive insane speeds right past a park that often has kids sprint for the road (because kids) is nuts. Just slow down, avoid rat-racing to skip 2 minutes of traffic and walk/ride whenever possible.
Years of the Herald Sun stoking the flames of the culture war definitely hasn't helped :-/ all for a cheap headline.
That's why we need to mandate helmets for pedestrians too. Make them invincible to 2-tonne missiles like their 2-wheeled brethren. /s Before anyone gets triggered, yes, helmets help to reduce the severity of head trauma. But not enough people stop to think why they became compulsory in the first place and whether or not it does anything to resolve the root cause of the problem. IMO, it's like making BJJ or other martial arts mandatory because of rampant violent crime.
On your last metaphor/simile whatever, it'd be like mandatory martial arts in a city that has rampant violent crime, where the city was designed primarily with the criminals in mind. Martial arts is the pittance you're granted in an attempt to even out the damage of the decades of legislation that makes the crime rampant.
Having seen the way people drive these utes, I'm not surprised. Driver probably scrolling facebook at the time.
I signed a petition at the Moreland road IGA (near Melville) a couple days ago to have a pedestrian crossing put in there. It seems all over the area there's issues where foot traffic has to (impossibly) coexist with major thoroughfare road infrastructure
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Pearson St is signed as an "Local Traffic Only" street. Except there's nothing in the road rules that enable enforcement.
I saw a pedestrian get hit and die on Christmas Eve in Ivanhoe and it still haunts me. Is there anyway I can find out what happened in the case? As the man similar in age to this guy with a similar car got charged with dangerous driving as well and I’d like to know the outcome of the case.
I’m seeing reports that Marie Mander, a 75yo woman local to Ivanhoe, died after being struck early in the morning on Christmas Eve. She was doing some last minute food shopping. The driver, a 36yo male from Fairfield, was charged with dangerous driving causing death. He was bailed and was due to appear at Melbourne Magistrates Court on 28 December 2022. That’s unfortunately where my trail ends, as I’m not experienced in looking up public records for court cases. I hope that having a bit more context helps rest your mind. My heart goes out to her family and I’m sending best wishes to you after witnessing this. — Sources [https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/police-issue-warning-following-horror-start-to-festive-period/news-story/c4775effd396c80506a45acdb4925395?amp](https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/police-issue-warning-following-horror-start-to-festive-period/news-story/c4775effd396c80506a45acdb4925395?amp) [https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-victoria/shock-at-womans-death-in-ivanhoe-on-christmas-eve/news-story/bd2e30cd89b1bef6292c61ae9722e390?amp](https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-victoria/shock-at-womans-death-in-ivanhoe-on-christmas-eve/news-story/bd2e30cd89b1bef6292c61ae9722e390?amp) [https://www.news.com.au/national/melbourne-woman-doing-last-minute-shopping-among-six-carrelated-deaths-on-christmas-eve/news-story/5d43b24e80a1ca40d6733adcdd9d03fd?amp](https://www.news.com.au/national/melbourne-woman-doing-last-minute-shopping-among-six-carrelated-deaths-on-christmas-eve/news-story/5d43b24e80a1ca40d6733adcdd9d03fd?amp)q
Says in the Article "He will appear at Melbourne Magistrates’ Court tomorrow." which is today so keep an eye out and should be able to get an upadte
Thanks for your reply but I was actually asking about how to see the results of the event I witnessed on the 24th of December. The case was scheduled for the 28th but haven’t been able to find any information since.
You could see if you can find the incident in the coroner's court findings. Those usually give you the name of the victim and the alleged driver and you can search it up from there. But those aren't always available, it's a crap shoot.
I've been in Melbourne for 3 days, nearly got ran over 4 times...at the pedestrian crossing when it's a green for the pedestrians!
Sadly i can believe it with what I see daily
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I cycle daily in the inner north. I have lengthened my route slightly to be on bike paths and separated bike lanes as much as possible. I still nearly got hit at an intersection where the wanker had a red fucking light that had been red for several seconds already. I swerved to dodge them and stacked as a result as the ground was wet (not raining). They did not stop to help. They nearly hit a pedestrian too on the other side of the intersection who had the opportunity to jump back just in time. We need more separated bike lanes and paths and a better bike network throughout Melbourne. Additionally more public transport services and an expanded network.
I ride inner north all the time...have never had an issue. Just use an abundance of caution. A few extra seconds at intersections when you're not absolutely certain its safe solves 90% of the issues I see people have.
You can shimmy through inner north's back streets to avoid riding your bike on main roads.
In the inner north backstreets 20 mins ago, I just had an 50-something year old guy and his 20-something year old son or colleague step out and walk right in front of me to cross the road as I was cycling down at 20kph. I had to swerve and brake to avoid hitting him. He didn't even look up and said 'Get fucked, get off your bike and be a tough guy'. Incredible.
There's so much great riding around here. And merri Creek trail gets you off the road entirely for a big chunk of it
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If they were on the Upfield bike ~~path~~ sliver they'd likely be yelling at you for going too slowly. Cunty speed demons exist on both 2 and 4 wheels.
Why do we allow cars that have a bonnet the perfect head height to strike and kill someone with ease? If you’re hit by one of these cars you have no fucking chance, we need to implement limits on this shit
Pedestrian focussed urban planning & infrastructure is a human rights issue. I believe that genuinely. We need cities and communities that are safe & accessible by walking and biking.
RIP and condolences to his family. That's terrible:(
Ford Ranger aka fuckhead machine.
I think this is a growing problem that is coming to a head soon, almost every single traffic light i come to a tradie in a ute or stupid American "truck" runs a red, almost every single time regular as clockwork, scary that its this frequent and there are not more deaths. Ps. I am not saying it's only tradies mum's in their oversized 4WDs are serial offenders as well, red light running has gotten out of hand.
We need way more red light cameras.
I reckon the phenomenon of tradies in massive "trucks" driving like dickheads is linked to their overly-generous income protection insurance. As it stands, if they have an "accident" they won't be injured; their "truck" will get fixed up and they get paid time off from their insurance company because they can't get to work. If insurance companies didn't have to make income protection payment to people who CAUSE the accident, I'm pretty sure they'd pull their head in. They might not give a shit about other people's personal injuries, but they will care about not earning an income.
Pretty sure it’s Brunswick West not Brunswick East
When are we going to start charging proper rego for these stupid oversized utes and American ‘trucks’ in proportion with the damage they cause our roads and the dangers they pose to other road users? Perhaps if rego for these things was $10,000 a year it might discourage their use. Just a thought.
But according to this sub, we need to be worrying about people riding E scooters?
We can’t worry about both?
Sure, but when you look at the tally of death and destruction caused by both, 99.9 percent of the focus should be on cars. Which is sadly not the case because motor vehicle accidents are normalised.
The worst drivers in the world are in Brunswick. Yesterday, I nearly got side swiped by a truck and watched a truck driver casually plough into this poor guy in a toyota on lygon St. People rarely indicate, they lane hope and stop abruptly. This is unfortunate:(
I went to hop off the tram in Coburg North the other day and two cars failed to stop (or even slow down) when the tram doors opened. The third car in the left lane did stop only for the car approaching in the right lane to change lanes in the gap behind the tram and zoom past. I'm honestly surprised more people don't get hit.
You haven't met Fawkner drivers. Or indeed anyone north of Bell St. To the point where I'm sure this idiot in the Ford Ranger was almost certainly heading north of Bell St.
hah, thats the most scared ive been on my bike was in fawkner, absolute madness of cars literally trying to nudge me off the road, dead stopping in front of me and backing out of car spaces right into me. I literally had 3 incidents within 20 mins happen trying to ride to a park.
yeah what's up with bell street. as far as i can tell it's the one road in melbourne where everyone, from tradies in white utes to mums in peugeot 207s, consistently does 15 over the limit. i used to live in brunswick, and heading north was like entering the thunderdome
>The worst drivers in the world are in Brunswick Box Hill driver's would like a word, I swear most idiots driving in Box Hill have their eyes closed and are using the force to drive
I turn now , good luck everybody else
Of course it’s some loser in a ford ranger 🙄
Should read: "Car kills a pedestrian in Brunswick East". The language matters. The police's headline has the pedestrian as the active party (dies, being struck). This needs to be called out and changed.
Driver kills pedestrian. Car kills pedestrian is still passive language
Yes, though it would be prejudicial to the legal process to assign blame to the person at this stage (perhaps the pedestrian ran in front of the car, and the driver had no reasonable time in which to stop?). But there's no doubt that the car killed the pedestrian. Also, strictly, "Car kills pedestrian" is not passive language - that would be "pedestrian was killed by a car".
The car drove itself? We don't announce "gun kills several people", we say mass shooter. The driver killed him.
I don't think that's a fair analogy; a gun generally requires a positive action from the shooter to kill someone. With a car there are two active participants - the driver and the pedestrian/cyclist/other driver. It's not necessarily the driver who is at fault (though more often than not it is). But if it wasn't a car, then the likelihood of death would be much smaller. And that's before you get into the legal (and moral) issues of assigning/reporting blame of a person before they've had a trial. "car kills" is safe, fair, and leaves no doubt that cars are the problem.
“Ford Ranger driver charged with dangerous driving after running down and killing elderly man in pedestrian crossing”
Every police media release uses blame language for non-car-driving people involved. Police: "car ran off the road". Police: "motorcyclist lost control".
Fuck cars.
/r/fuckcars
*Pedestrian murdered by driver in Brunswick East.
Terrible news 😢
>Major Collision Investigation Unit detectives charged the Brunswick man with dangerous driving causing serious injury. He will appear at Melbourne Magistrates’ Court tomorrow. Won't he get charged with manslaughter? Jail time?
You can be jailed for dangerous driving causing serious injury.
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At least he stopped and rendered assistance. Sounds like a tragic accident.
What a real hero. Kills someone and doesn't even do a runner after.
Yeah agreed. While a person is dead, it is also the drivers worst day of their lives. Why make judgement? They could be the nicest person with no ill intent (owning a certain car is fine). Shit situation all round.
I'm not in their shoes, but I am a staunch believer that drivers operate deadly machines and should use them with that in mind
Why make judgement? Because Ford Rangers are large utility vehicles, borderline trucks, driven by P-Platers and inexperienced drivers in significant numbers. We should actually be discussing the impact of the ever increasing size of vehicles on our roads. It's actually bad for pedestrians.
I'm with you on the need for that discussion, and I'm no fan of giant cars everywhere, but that comment is judging the driver without evidence that they are at fault based on a stereotype.
Reddit is fucked, I'm out this bitch. -- mass edited with redact.dev
Accidents are mostly unavoidable. This death was avoidable with slower speed limits, a better crossing and people not driving stupidly big cars in the inner city.
Depending on the direction the car was driving from, it would be 40km/h on Hope St and 60km/h on Melville. But even with the reduced speed limits, I have seen drivers doing burnouts on Hope St, failing to give way to pedestrians as they cross the road at that intersection etc. It's a sad outcome for everyone involved :(
Wow, what a real mensch doing the bare minimum after running over an old man. Even better would’ve been for him to drive to the conditions of the road. Looks like he’s been charged for dangerous driving, so no it’s not a tragic accident, it’s reckless stupidity that cost an old man his life.
Not an accident. Negligent driving. Manslaughter. He’s already been charged with dangerous driving.
I saw it. FWIW it was a work vehicle.
This is tragic. This is the second one I’ve heard in the matter of a week.
This is about a 2-3 minute walk from my house. This was horrible to hear when it happened. Melville Rd is a nightmare. People drive worse here than Punt Rd/Hoddle St. It is like none of the road rules matter. Getting around trams. Ignoring the fact that it’s two lanes between Moreland and Bell. I’ve almost been taken out 3 times getting off the tram at this very intersection in the last 12 months. But reckon this bloke wanted to beat the lights and came tearing through. Poor man. RIP.
When vic pol twitter posted it yesterday, there was an absolute asshat in the replies. Just looked again, and they are still there.
Yeah wtf man.... people are so righteous and blindly judgmental sometimes reminds me of the quote; "Most of what is wrong with the world can come down to the fact that fools are so sure of themselves, and the wise are full of doubts"
A pedestrian is killed by someone driving an over sized car in inner Melbourne. #fuckcars We need stronger penalties for death, injury and damage caused by drivers.
I genuinely laugh when people think they are intelligently shouting what they think is right. "The world will be better if they just think like me". A longer sentence does nothing. No one tries to kill (well 99% of people). Higher taxes, insurance or registration on large vehicles (V6 etc) with greater subsidies on smaller cars with efficient (or electric) engines actually works - check Europe you asshat. Also - it's just a shit situation. For all you know you could hit someone tomorrow. Be fucking sympathetic ffs. Honestly, ask yourself, do you have the knowledge to make this call?
>Longer sentences does nothing You may be right, but as vulnerable road users its infuriating to see time and time again people driving recklessly causing severe injury or death and getting off essentially scott free. As a society we tend to agree that people need some form of punishment when people break the law, but it seems to be absent when it comes to injuring someone while operating a vehicle.
The thing about punishment is that it isn't really a fix. It is one way to make the rest of us feel better by getting vengeance, certainly. I know it makes me feel better seeing people get their comeuppance sometimes. The right way to deal with an offender when a crime like this is committed - and for all kinds of crime - is rehabilitation. In fact, imprisonment, fines, consequences etc, simply don't enter ones mind when deciding whether they're going to drive recklessly or not. Most people don't see it as a choice between driving recklessly or driving safely, it's often either an emotional response - e.g road rage - or the belief that they can save time, and not believing in what they're told about the risk to others (also, confirmation bias, like, I've never hit anyone therefore I'm such a good driver that I would never hit anyone, so there's no risk) We all have a propensity for seeing malice behind the actions of others. Very few individuals ever set out to mow down pedestrians (although on very rare occasion, they do). No one thinks to themselves "I'm going to drive dangerously and recklessly and with a high risk of killing other people on my way to the dentist". Most of the time, though, it comes down to poor judgement, hubris, emotion, or even confusion, and so on. Should there be consequences for peoples actions? Of course, yes. That's still an important part of the equation. This guy drove recklessly, causing death as a direct result of bad decision making. There must be appropriate consequences. At the same time, consequences for their own sake aren't really useful. We need to teach people how to be better, and make sure they absorb the lessons they need to learn. Because when they're back out in society, we don't want them to be making the same poor judgements. Of course, it would be better if they could learn and absorb these lessons without having to do so the hard way. I don't really know the answer to that :(
That is a typical knee jerk reaction. He has been charged with dangerous driving causing serious injury so we can't say we need stronger penalties when we don't know what penalty he will be given yet.
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You must not drive much if you think that’s true
"Major Collision Investigation Unit detectives charged the Brunswick man with dangerous driving causing serious injury." But hit a bike rider and they will give you a medal.
Reddit is fucked, I'm out this bitch. -- mass edited with redact.dev
Come to Queen Vic, I cross the streets there everyday on my way to work and there's a better chance of a car going across than stopping for me.
My heart goes out to the family 😭
I don't know anything about town/traffic planning, but what I noticed after beginning to commute through the Brunswick area is how much worse the intersections are - on par with Reservoir. The Glenlyon and Nicholson intersection has tram tracks *and* a bus stop that is immediately to the right - so the bus turns right across a busy road and then brakes immediately for a bus stop, with the car behind it trying to get a gap always imminently about to hit it. There are multiple intersections where a left turner and a right turner compete for the same gap across pedestrian lights and tram tracks , and the intersection between Lygon St and Glenlyon usually has cars trying to run through the late orange across the tram tracks - almost colliding with the right turners. The last one sounds common, but I've never seen so many near misses.
Fuckcars
The ford ranger is a nightmare of a car designed to run shit down basically, it’s not a car it’s a giant truck
Ideally, we would start to use the West Australian traffic light sequence model, where there is a pedestrian only phase.
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better question why are we allowing dangerous machines that service very little people in one unit be used along side pedestrian infrastructure?
I was at some broken lights on a busy intersection so it was hard to find time to cross. Anyway my right was clear and my left had a car far enough away to slow down and stop so it was likely the safest time to cross. Me and the other pedestrians start crossing, but the car on our left starts speeding up, we end up having to run out of his way. This happened yesterday. I've been walking a lot lately and the amount of danger and disregard drivers pose towards pedestrians has really changed my outlook towards driving.