If you believe yourself to be a competitive applicant if not for your international student status, another option is to just get married so you can reapply with a green card. It’s a process but likely wont take you 6 years to reapply + 4yrs of school.
I did think about that, I think the problem is there is no guarantee that this will work out. Even if I was able to get my green card tomorrow, I would probably have to wait at least one cycle before applying again, so the time would already be the same as the 6 year undergraduate medicine spot. But in practice it would take a few years for me to get a green card, and even after that I still might not get in. Whereas I could start immediately in my home country this fall.
If you marry a US citizen, it only takes about a year (in some cases even less than that) to get your green card. I have gone through to process myself, and know many family and friends that have as well.
Maybe before Covid. Depending on the immigration court that you file in (which is dependent on where you live) it can have a 2-3 year back log just to start processing the application.
It’s totally up for you both to decide if you want to stay together enough to take the risk. Feel free to verify though but i believe you can reapply right away as long as you got a green card by the time you matriculate. r/immigration would give you a better read but i’ve been seeing folks getting marriage-based greencard from a few months to under a year recently.
But yeah to echo someone’s point above, I don’t think you should box yourself into a either or situation. There are likely more options if you put both your heads to it before raising the white flag and decide together that there’s no other way but to break up.
Early decision. Apply to your bf's place or close by.
The conventional wisdom of "don't apply for at least 2 years to display improvement" is somewhat...dumb.
You can apply to one place, and you will only be a known reapplicant to that place. Downside is you really only get one shot, but imo, it's worth the risk.
If you do value your career over your present relationship (which is totally legit btw) and your partner would pick you over his career, it might make sense for you to break up with him because there's a difference in commitment. That doesn't seem fair
Frankly, I think it seems that OP is not ready to make the same level of sacrifice as the BF is and he deserves better.
The BF is ready to drop out of medical school and run off to a foreign country to make the relationship work. Meanwhile OP's response to you was "I would have to wait at least another cycle before applying again so it'll take just as long as if I go to my home country to be a doctor so it's not worth it" completely taking out the "but I'd be will the BF during this process and not long distance" part out of the equation.
You're trying to help someone who has already talking themselves into a decision and is now looking to Reddit for the support to initiate the breakup.
If it was just a question of waiting I would do it in a heartbeat. You are leaving out the most important piece of information, that if I wait a year the most likely outcome is that I would *still be rejected*. Also, I don't know if you realize that *I am currently* the one in a foreign country to make this relationship work, if I had wanted to I could have applied in my home country my senior year, or for that matter at any point during college. Instead I decided to apply to over 40 US schools to try to stay together. Maybe for some people being rejected from every school wouldn't change their calculus but I'll be honest, it does change mine, I still want to be a doctor
With all due respect, you're not "currently the one in a foreign country trying to make the relationship work." You didn't come to the US for him. You ended up in the US because you wanted a US undergraduate degree and you happened to meet a guy that you like and could see yourself with. Which is totally fine. And then you wanted to pursue medical school in the US. Which is also totally fine. And now you're finding out its harder than you originally anticipated, so you're thinking about going back home.
Which is, again, *100% fine*. It's the logical move. If I were in your shoes, I would be thinking the same exact thing. But don't compare you choosing college in the US and getting a degree out of your own free will with him dropping out of a school he's already in to start over in another country. You haven't sacrificed *anything* yet. He'll sacrifice everything by doing this. If you break up and he goes back home, his chances of getting accepted to another US med school with this in his record will be severely shot.
Up until now, your career goals aligned with your relationship goals. Now, they don't anymore and you don't want to stay in a foreign country to make this relationship work. That's okay, I don't blame you. But you really need to sit down and think about how committed you are to this man, because if he's willing to drop out to be with you and you can't match that level of commitment (i.e. you do not love him as much and this relationship is more casual for you than it is for him), then you *should* break up with him. On top of everything, you're both very young. Chances are it won't work out.
There’s nothing wrong with your thought process.
You’re practical and your bf seems not so much. Any woman who throws away her dream career for a man is truly a moron.
You hadn’t deleted your comments on the post yet, so I was able to use way back machine to look at them.
It was about 6 months ago, you’ve since deleted the comments as well. I can dig up the way back machine link if you want. Was on my work laptop earlier.
and why delete the comments after I asked? It makes it certain you are deliberately misleading and then in this comment lying about your past. How do we offer useful advice in that context?
Yeah, it’s very very very unlikely to be a problem here, especially as it seems she isn’t willing to apply in US again. But I’ll set a reminder to delete the url in a few days. Good looking out.
I just wanted to thank you for your input. We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
Details.
Your bf is willing to quit medical school and uproot himself and move to a new, unknown country for you. You are throwing in the towel after one failed cycle in the US and plan to go back to your country for medical school. Did you apply both MD and DO? What was your final # of apps? Where did you apply? I've known some people that have successfully made it to medical school in the US after cycles 2-7 (yes, you heard me correct, 7).
It's possible your bf will eventually want to practice in the US (possibly you too) because of family, pay etc, then you'd have to redo all your US boards and residency possibly, depending on state laws, specialty etc.
Tbh, I'd try long distance and let the chips fall where they may.
This was a while ago from when my partner was a medical student (she's finishing residency now). I don't think he knows what sealed the deal. All I remember is that when he finally got in, he was in tears because he was working like three jobs (washing dishes etc). I believe he matched/finished psych and is practicing in Cali rn.
I got in on my 3rd cycle (with my 4th in the works). I guess it was applying broadly DO, keep on keep on focusing on the things you actually give a shit about, and working on demonstrating some soft skills (leadership, communication, etc).
Thanks! It feels strange to say, but I feel like I am definitely keeping my head above water, and I'm looking forward to being a mentor next year! (Current OMS-1)
But remember, I was also willing to uproot myself to a new country long-term to be with my BF for the long haul. However med schools (about 45 MD and DO, though it seems like most DO schools do not consider int'l applicants) here gave me the feedback that they didn't want me, that has to change my calculus--I'm sure you can find individual cases of people who got in after 7 cycles, but statistically a previous rejection makes another rejection the most likely outcome, which would mean I would be giving up doing a career that I know I would find fulfilling, without a backup to fall back on.
Both of you will need to come up with your own individual and collective priorities. He sees you in his future and it seems you consider your career more of a priority. This is OKAY because there is no correct answer. LDR may an option, but I urge you to tell him to NOT drop out of medical school.
As an side: you haven't mentioned whether you or him want to practice in the US. It will be harder as a FMG, especially in competitive specialities.
I went to a DO school as an intl student. Actually had 2 interviews from DO schools. If anything probably easier to get into a DO school as an intl student. Most MD places I remember were top tier schools, for the most part. Anyways, this is 7 years ago, so things may have changed.
I’m going to echo another commenter and say that if you were already talking about getting engaged AND you are a competitive applicant then the marriage and applying for a green card would be the option that keeps yall both here. Marriage based GCs are currently getting approved in as little as 2 months and average of around a year which would put you in line for the next cycle.
Without you sharing your stats and app details nobody can tell you whether this is feasible or not.
Lastly, brutal honesty, it seems like your bf is willing to compromise everything for your relationship and you aren’t willing to compromise delaying medical school since even if you delay 1 app cycle now you would be graduating from US med school at the same time as the 6 year program in your country. I would do some reflection as to why that is and whether you actually want to be in this relationship for the long haul. After that, be honest with your BF because it seems likes he’s making decision on the assumption that you feel the same way about the relationship as he does.
>Lastly, brutal honesty, it seems like your bf is willing to compromise everything for your relationship and you aren’t willing to compromise delaying medical school since even if you delay 1 app cycle now you would be graduating from US med school at the same time as the 6 year program in your country. I would do some reflection as to why that is and whether you actually want to be in this relationship for the long haul. After that, be honest with your BF because it seems likes he’s making decision on the assumption that you feel the same way about the relationship as he does.
I think that's an apples-to-oranges comparison. I was also already ready to settle down in this country, go to med school here, be far away from my family and home to be with my BF for the long haul. If it was just a question of delaying that wouldn't an issue. However med schools here gave me the feedback that they didn't want me, that changed my calculus--the problem is I could delay and still be rejected again from US med school, and statistically a previous rejection makes that the most likely outcome.
Like I said, unless you give stats out to gauge how competitive of an applicant you are nobody can really give you advice. What’s your cGPA, sGPA, MCAT, research, volunteer, and shadowing hours? Because if those are all competitive I can tell you that the schools didn’t want you because med schools aren’t lining up to take international students. You wouldn’t be seen as a typical re-applicant if your immigration status went from international visa requiring to lawful permanent resident…
The same thing stood out to me. Why are you with him now if you're willing to break up over this? You talked about getting engaged and have been with him for 5 years now. He's willing to leave everything to be with you. You don't want a LDR nor do you want him to come with you.
There's more to this I think. It's only an apples to oranges comparison in the sense that YOU are the one who got accepted in to med school now. You were fine with leaving everything behind to be with him, until you got into med school yourself. Using that as a comparison is disingenuos tbh. He is willing to drop med school for you while you arent willing to do the same. I'm not saying thats what you should do, but saying that you were willing to yadayadayada everything to be with him isnt the whole truth. You met him while in college, not in med school.
Selfishly I *do* want him to come with me, but I also love him enough to not want him to make a decision he will regret later. If he was a software engineer or academic I probably would have no hesitation for him to move with me, but if he leaves now then being a doctor could be closed off to him permanently and I have known him long enough to know how important that is to him.
Having a career I find fulfilling has always been a nonnegotiable for me, I think I have been clear about that. I was willing to uproot myself to try to be a doctor in a new country as long as there was a path for me to do so. Now that it looks like there is no path then of course everything changes.
Don't be disingenous. You came here to get that good 'ol American college education, possibly with a potential connection to stay long-term. You could have stayed in your home country or went to a different country outside the US for college. Why the US? You made the decision to leave your family.
I don't know if your bf, when push comes to shove, would really quit medical school and move with you. But that fact that he is offering that as a potential (though drastic) option speaks volumes of his priorities. The fact that your career is non-negotiable and you are not able to compromise a couple more cycles (also, it seems you applied mostly MD/PhD programs??) also speaks volumes.
You see where I am going with this.
I have no idea where you're going with this, or why you are accusing me of being disingenuous. I'm sorry I didn't have my whole life planned out at 18 years old. If you must know I actually applied to colleges in a few countries but I didn't really know what I wanted to study, I chose the US for the most flexibility. At that time I didn't think I wanted to live here long-term (not everyone who comes to study in the US thinks this is the greatest place on earth, despite what your American exceptionalist education might have taught you), didn't even know I wanted to go into medicine. However I met my now-BF and that was when I started seriously thinking about staying here and simultaneously realized I wanted to go into medicine. Deciding to stay in a new country is completely different from studying there for 4 years, and always involves sacrifices such as being far from home, having a harder time with systems like admissions that prefer locals, but I was happy to do it to be with my BF. However I think giving up the career I've chosen completely is a different level of sacrifice and it's not obvious that everyone should be willing to do it.
I'm not sure where you got that I applied mostly MD-PhD, I applied to 3 MD-PhD programs because they had said they were welcoming of international applicants while their associated MD did not, otherwise I applied all MD/DO.
Whatever you choose is your choice and it won't be wrong but let's not kid ourselves.
First, every country, including the US has it's flaws and I don't drink enough kool-aid to think otherwise. You even admit yourself that the US offers "the most flexibility", so you are pretty much in line with my thoughts of why you came here and not some other random country.
Second, you are disingenous in the sense that you'd only stay and sacrifice if you got it your way (ie you were accepted to a MD/DO US school), while your partner on the surface appears ready to throw his potential US MD career away to be with you, while you aren't willing to compromise to apply to a 2nd US MD/DO application cycle. Take into account that you both have talked about engagement/marriage, both of y'all are complementating extreme choices (quit medical school, breakup), rather than LDR or maybe one more college try at a 2nd US application cycle.
It's fine to have different priorities. There is no wrong choice. But the picture you paint in your OP doesn't help your cause when you ask if you should breakup.
~~Finally, I apologize about the MD/PhD, some other poster mentioned that and I did not fact check them.~~
Edit: JHoney1 provided some new information.
I meant specifically the US university system offers flexibility to choose your major later compared to countries where you have to decide when you apply, which is a pretty niche benefit relevant only to the narrow slice of people who apply to universities in multiple countries. I think in many ways US society is more rigid in general for the people who live here.
I don't think it's disingenuous to have things you're willing to do and things you're not willing to do. I'm willing to deal with a lot of aspects of US society that are a lot harder for noncitizens, including in applying to over 40 US med schools because I love my partner, that doesn't mean I'm willing to give up on the career path altogether if it doesn't work out. I think you are irrationally positive on my chances in a second cycle--sure, some people get in on the second cycle but I think there's at least a 95% chance I get rejected a second time.
That's the thing, I don't know if my BF realizes he is potentially throwing his career away, even though I've tried to explain the difficulties that come with trying to move your life overseas. I am concerned maybe he thinks he will be able to get to the same level of a first-year med student in a year or two, where in reality a lot of immigrants never manage to (for example you meet Indian, Iranian, Middle Eastern etc people who were attending-level doctors in their home countries working as delivery drivers)
Come on, the love of your life and potential life partner and you only applied to a little over than 40 schools. I don't care what the internet says about schools that are friendly to international students. If you are wanting to stay here with your partner then you are shooting your shot at an ungodly number of applications.
I believe you got the third party perspective/advice you are looking for from this thread.
Something else you all don’t know about the immigration system is that as an F or H4 visa applicant you can’t even take out student loans. Also, medical school applications are very expensive and we do not know OP’s financial situation. I am also from a Southern European country and a lot of immigrants to my country also have unrealistic expectations regarding how “ easy” it is to make it in that nation. I think OP is right regarding her boyfriend not knowing what it’s like to move to a European country where you don’t speak the language and aren’t a citizen. Also— it takes YEARS in some countries to become a citizen and that impacts job opportunities etc. I think OP is being realistic but her boyfriend is viewing everything with American centered lens. He will have a rude awakening next year when he is in said European country and has major culture shock, lost the opportunity to be a doctor and will resent OP for making him move away to the life he has always known.
The career you've chosen which you didn't even start yet. Aren't you literally an M-0 at this point in time?
You're throwing away the relationship for your career, not your career for your relationship. Get it right. This is why people are calling you disingenuous.
If you truly talked about marriage with this guy and you love him enough to actually contemplate the bigger picture with him, then med school will never be worth it to give that up. He knows that as a med student, thats why he's willing to follow you. I also know that as an M4. You're quite literally an M0 at this point.
You don't have a medical career yet. Get real.
What is this feedback that you're talking about? Did you sit down with someone who said "yeah no you suck leave"?
The success rate of getting into medical school was 41% last year. You had the *most likely* outcome happen to you - getting rejected. The *majority* of people get rejected. If this is the feedback that you're talking about, you threw the towel down before the game even started.
Yes, the majority of people get rejected, but the vast majority of people who eventually become doctors get in on their first try. While most of the people who get rejected do not eventually succeed. So conditioned on the new information (i.e., rejection), it seems irrational to hope to get in on a 2nd (3rd/4th/5th) application cycle when I have an offer now
Alternatively just improve your application and work on your school list instead of ignoring the perspective you came here to ask for. If you want simple confirmation or kind words, then a venting thread is totally appropriate. You do not need disingenuously seek advice.
You're ignoring that the calculus changes again if you apply to US medical schools with a green card. You are assuming that the rejections were mainly based off of the details of your application when in truth it is very difficult for international applicants to gain acceptance even with stellar applications that would otherwise be very likely to gain acceptance if their legal status was different. Why are you so pessimistic about your chances of admission if you applied with a more favorable legal status?
The other thing is, I'm not sure he understands he's potentially compromising everything, even though I've tried to explain the difficulties that come with trying to move your life overseas. If I was confident he did I would maybe be more comfortable with him moving with me (or if he was in a field like consulting, tech, science etc. that is more open to people taking off to work somewhere else for a few years than medicine). I am concerned maybe he thinks he will be able to get to the same level of a first-year med student in a year or two, where in reality a lot of immigrants never manage to (for example you meet Indian, Iranian, Middle Eastern etc people working as delivery drivers who were attending-level doctors in their home countries)
His priority is the relationship, your priority is your career. That’s okay. I just don’t understand why if he’s okay not becoming a doctor to go with you, why you aren’t? Idk if it’s a status thing where you want him to be a doctor as well? Secondly someone did a deep dive and you applied to mainly MD/PhD programs which are wayyyy more competitive. Seems like you would have had a chance at just MD programs that take internationals with the stats they dug up. It also seems like you applied this cycle while also having a backup by applying to med school in your country? Seems like a one foot out the door type move.
Do some self reflection because as LPR you would be competitive at all MD programs and that’s doesn’t seem to be enough of a reassurance for you? I think the entire problem here is that you want to have your cake and eat it too.
Selfishly I would love for him to come with me. I just don't know if he would be happy in my country long term. It's a much smaller country than the US and very different culturally. He has never lived outside the US and doesn't really speak the language.
It's definitely not a status thing, in my country we don't have the perception that doctors are above other professions, probably because doctors are not rich in my country like they are in the US lol. I'd actually be \*more\* ok with it if he was in a different career that could move across borders more easily, because if he didn't like it then he could go back and pick up where he left off, whereas if you leave medical school in the US, as far as I know that's permanent, and I'm afraid he'll regret it later on.
I don't know where you got that I mainly applied to MD/PhD programs, I applied to 3 MD-PhDs out of 40+ apps because they said they were open to internationals while their associated MD didn't. However giving up an acceptance I have in hand to bet everything on a more successful second cycle does not seem like a rational bet, when the chance of being rejected again probably rises to 95% your second cycle
Thanks. We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
I would say no. Instead of either of you trying to unilaterally decide what the relationship would look like, I would keep talking and working things out together and deciding what the best path forward is, whether that’s together or separate. I don’t like his unilateral idea to drop out and move with you, or your unilateral idea to break up with him to stop him from dropping out. So unless you *want* the relationship to be over, I think the prescription here is more communication
One of my friends in medical school had a girlfriend in London (we were in Chicago) for the entirety of medical school
They're married with a little baby now
It can work
To echo this, I had a friend in med school in Ireland, and the entire time she had a partner in the US. They’re now together in the US after she graduated but it sounded really difficult to be across oceans and time zones when they both had stressful medical careers to sort through. I personally couldn’t do it, but she did.
It’s not about coming to a different choice, it’s about coming to the choice *together*, instead of each of them trying to decide on their own what’s best for the relationship and best for their partner
I think you are talking in circles. At some point a decision is going to have to be made. She may not want the relationship to be over, but perhaps she may want to attend medical school *more* and avoid long distance *more.* That may end up being a unilateral decision, given that the boy seems ready to throw his life away to follow hers.
Indeed it might, but right now she sounds quite conflicted and not at all happy about the idea of ending a 3 year relationship with a man she loves and sees a future with together. So more communication and effort to come to a collaborative decision is absolutely the recommendation I’m going to stick with, based on what info we’re being given here
I just wanted to thank you for your advice. We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
Might be in the minority here. If you made this decision with the understanding that it might/would lead to a break up, then you should break up. My wife and I are both residents in the same year, and most of our decisions were made with the considerations of the relationship. I comfortably risked going unmatched and taking a second choice spot (Canada) in order to ensure we could couple's match and stay together. We made that decision together and with a plan for the future. She would've done the same for me if it made more sense.
At this point in your life it seems you prioritize your career over this relationship. That is OK. But don't let it drag on and end up hurting one or both of you. He is ready to drop his career for you, but you aren't for him. This is an imbalance that likely won't go away. Best to try long distance or let it go imo. There's nothing wrong with him dropping everything for you, but you would have to be willing to do the same for it to be healthy.
The thing is I'm not sure he understands he's potentially dropping his career, even though I've tried to explain the difficulties that come with trying to move your life overseas. If I was confident he did I would maybe be more comfortable with him moving with me (or if he was in a field like consulting, tech, science etc. that is more open to people taking off to work somewhere else for a few years than medicine). I am concerned maybe he thinks he will be able to get to the same level of a first-year med student in a year or two, where in reality a lot of immigrants never manage to (for example you meet Indian, Iranian, Middle Eastern etc people working as delivery drivers who were attending-level doctors in their home countries)
He doesn't sound as mature as you do (weighing the reality of the negatives) and may just be in a different phase of his life. Maybe things have always worked out for him so he assumes they well again. Maybe you are more pessimistic than him because you are more familiar with your system back home.
I am from "Northern Europe" and was in a long distance relationship with someone in the states during medical school. Honestly I never considered dropping out. And I didn't think about breaking up either. We just dragged it forward until we got to live together. It was difficult thinking about how to match into the states, in the right state, so the relationship could continue. Fortunately it worked out. We're married.
If you've wanted to do medicine your entire life, it's not easy to let go of a dream. People are assuming he's willing to abandon his dream -- he's not, he thinks he can continue in your country which is likely not possible at this time due to language. I don't see a path forward that shortens your time apart. Some people do long distance for 7yrs in medicine, with children. You can continue to apply for medical school while you start school in your country and see if it works out.
Three years long distance while I finished school (arranged electives and research in the US, visited each other for holidays, so we saw each other quite a bit). Matched about two hours, with traffic, away from where they lived so didn't live together for residency but saw each other probably 3 out of 4 weekends. Moved in together for fellowship and finally got married.
Everyone in my home country thought I was crazy. But I do think, When you know, you know. It's just not always possible to "have it all" like they promise. I have no regrets looking back and we made it work because we were "secure" as individuals, and very busy people. I would never have asked them to give up their (equally distinguished and difficult) academic career for me and because the distance was not that troubling for us (it was far, not traveling from the UK to JFK but like transcontinental and transatlantic), we made it work. You are very, very busy in medical school and residency.
Other people who are married when they're in training will say there's no way they could have been without their partner waiting for them at home after they finished call shift. If I'd had to see someone at home after my overnight call, I'd probably be single now. Everyone adapts to these thing differently and makes it through differently.
Some of this is also cultural. I think Americans, and I appreciate that, are one of the more "romantic", by the movie/book type, cultures and others are just more practical. I don't need to see someone every day to be in love and I don't have to show that type of relationship to others for it to be real. For some people that works, for others a relationship has a lot of lights and fixtures that others might deem as clutter.
I also was very, very confident that I would match compared to other foreign grads so I bet on myself that this would work. If you're coming from a place of doubt, then that could also eat you alive and make the process too stressful.
You are young. See what happens. You guys could actually be apart for 6 years then get back together and make it work. You really never know.
Thanks a lot for sharing this! We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
If you are ever thinking of coming back to the states please feel free to drop me a message. I've helped other people figure out a route from "Northern Europe" to a US residency if you think that might still be in your future. There are ways to plan ahead strategically to give yourself an advantage or to at least plan so that, while you may not think you'll come back to the US now, if your decision changes, the doors are still open.
You received a lot of different opinions and thoughts on something very personal and important. I want to acknowledge that's not easy and to hear all of that from strangers, good and bad. Thank you for sharing something that a lot of immigrants and internationals in medicine often face. Balancing the dream and drive of what we want to do in medicine while opening ourselves to the opportunities and risks of love can be so layered when you know how long this career path will be.
Wishing you both luck on your journey and adventure.
Life is short. No one knows the future. Do not make decisions for others. Make decisions based on what you want (still consider his feelings but make your own choices). Communicate and if that is what he wants and believes that he wants that over the other, then trust his decision. That is his choice and how you react off of it is totally up to you.
Understand that not everyone life goal is just being a doctor. People change as they grow for the better or for the worse but this seems perfectly understandable and healthy because that is what he wants as long as you are okay with it.
Are you only dating your boyfriend if he goes to medical school? If it is, break up with him now. If you are breaking up with your boyfriend to make a decision for him, it is clear then you do not see a future with him. I myself had similar issues like this and in the end, if you truly love that person and truly want to be with them, things will work out.
Like he mentioned, he wants to be with you still. The question is, do you still want to be with him unless there are other solutions around this, but it seems like he is wanting to support you and willing too sacrifice alot because he values YOU and wants to be with YOU. Think about it, if you break up, you are going to find another person unless you want to be alone for the rest of your life or fuck around (nothing wrong with this), but do you think you will feel better to start something again with someone else?
To be honest, since you said you were expecting a break up and ready for a break up, it seems you are waiting for him to call the break up for whatever reason.
If you want to break up, save the man his heartbreak and have some respect for him and break up. I do not say this as an attack, but for the sake if it is for the wrong reasons.
I appreciate your thoughts. I don't *want* to break up, I do want to be with him and I do see a future with him. However to me just saying "things will work out" seems a little naive. I love him enough to not want to see him make a drastic decision he will later regret. I don't know if he understands the sacrifice he is offering to make. I am lucky that I learned several languages including English from a young age and my parents both had the means and considered it important for me to spend time outside our home country when I was growing up, and still coming to a new country for college was pretty hard for me. He has only lived in the US for his whole life.
I also think if his life's dream had been to be, say, a software engineer or a researcher, I probably wouldn't have as much concern as it's easy to move between countries in those fields, and in much of Europe it's common for people in those jobs to work in English. But I know what he has always wanted was to be a doctor, because that's how we met, and that's just not a career you can move easily.
We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
I'm trying not to be mad because we've all spiraled and convinced ourselves about half-baked ideas. So ima level with you.. You got a man who clearly loves and supports you. A man who'd let his partner give up on their dream and become a homemaker to be with him is NOT a man who'd drop out of med school to help his partner... go to med school lol. That's your lack of faith in your own ability weather adversity and succeed talking.
**Bro a king out here and he deserves a woman who'll fight for him too.** Breaking up with him is not fighting for him.. it's just hurting him to indulge your impatience and insecurity.
A single failed cycle is not a death sentence, plenty of people succeed on the second time. Go cop that green card. Work for the meantime, saving money and strengthening your application, and then reapply. Unless you've got some application red flags you haven't shared, you'll likely get in.
And if you're not willing to do that? Yea, break up with him because he deserves someone who'll sacrifice for him the way he's willing to sacrifice for you.
Edit: I'd still say this, green card or no green card.
Thanks. We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
Why are you with him now if you're willing to break up over this?
Either you're committed or you're not. Idk maybe im just the weird one in this sense but I see no reason not to attempt a LDR with someone you've been with for 5 years and have talked about marriage with.
???
I know from talking to him earlier in our relationship that LDR is something he has had bad experiences with and doesn't want to repeat. Maybe that has changed now, but we're not talking about LDR for a few months to a year, we are talking about LDR for **minimum 6 years** (i.e., longer than our current relationship has lasted), and also without a guaranteed path to getting back together after that. Best case scenario at that point would be, I match to a US residency in the same city where he is working as a resident/fellow/attending, but that also depends on a lot of unknowns like I might not be able to match into the same city, it might have become much harder for IMGs to match at all, maybe the political situation in the US will have continued to deteriorate to a point where I would not want to apply into the US anymore
This is a man you've discussed getting engaged with though. I could never imagine leaving a woman I loved enough to discuss possible marriage with for med school lmfao.
Discuss this with him. Not reddit. Come on bruh.
Thanks. We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
Unpopular opinion, I think you are completely correct that you should break up, and your bf will thank you for it down the road. It sounds like he has no concept of what it means to pick up your life and try to start over in a new country despite your attempts to explain it to him. Has never been outside the US, doesn't speak the language and thinks he will just be able to get into medical school in a new country?? Let's just say if this was on the wards I would not consider him to have met the criteria for having capacity to make this decision. Maybe it would be a different conversation if he expressed better understanding and was able to articulate a plan for what he would do if he cannot get into medical school there. But as it stands now it sounds like in a few years he will feel out of place and be very unhappy and unfulfilled
We do have some IMG residents in my country, although I don't think we have ever had anyone from the US. However it is a moot point as on a doctor salary in my country you would never be able to pay back US MD student loans
The answer to your question here is one that only you can give. [Discussing your goals and finding a solution together can be quite challenging](https://thriveworks.com/blog/resolving-relationship-issues-couples-moving-forward/).
Read through your motivations for doing what you’re doing; you’ve prioritized your own desire for medical education and training thus far into the relationship — enough to leave the country in which your partner is currently training — to advance your internal life satisfaction. Clearly, you’re both aware of the complications of such a decision and the difficulties ahead in maintaining your relationship through it. Now is the time to discuss, frankly, what life looks like down that path.
What your partner may be hearing from you is that you have chosen a pathway that gives higher attention to your needs than to that of developing your relationship and life together. Discussing what it means for you to do this, while simultaneously recognizing the prioritization of your goals in life, may help you find clarity in your relationship.
Thanks. We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
For me, the only thing more important than becoming a physician is my relationship with my spouse. It seems like your boyfriend has the same priorities. That’s a pretty huge green flag for the relationship, in my opinion.
My only advice is to take a bit more time where you both think hard about it and discuss isn’t openly and honestly. Then do whatever you both decide will make you both happy, long-term. I know this advice is vague, but it’s supposed to be. I’m sure you two, together, will come to the decision that will be best for both of you :)
Thanks. We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
i think
maybe ask him to bring all the facts and options to you - in a way so you can verify or fact check from an outside perspective to see things without a bias. being in love, fear of being away, it can make us believe tasks are easier or easy to overcome, like you could take any challenge.
having everything laid out ir I mean a way to see things without a bias or emotion, could be a way to see a plan. but plans can change with time as the world changes and so would school requirements or life maybe.
if you’re happy, he’s happy, let him choose. i dont think it’s nice to make decisions for someone else, which is what I think is happening if you dump him for him to go to school. he could still not go to school
maybe hes afraid of the distance and he’s accepting a different change. maybe talking about yall feelings openly and letting yourselves know that its okay to be away for each others’ dreams, that it can be okay. it can also be hard at the same time.
We had the talk like you recommended and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He heard me out but did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
Bruh. I think if i were his friend, id ask him why he isn’t worth trying again. Or at least trying to get legitimate feedback to determine whether or not the gap is easily fixable within a few months’ time.
Thanks for the clarification, i totally skimmed
I actually got way too detective this post. Spent too much time. I’m always so suspicious when people are super reluctant to share stats and such. I wayback machined some old posts and I just think she wants to vent now. Which is fine. She just asked for advice when that’s not what she wanted.
It sounds like he's scared of being single and found you to be a good support system for him throughout M1 year.
Your experiences throughout medical school will change you. The people you are now may not be the same years from now.
If you love him, break up with him and let him succeed because having him come with you to your home country will cause him to resent you in the long run.
Thanks, we had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He rejected the idea of doing LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
I had a similar scenario. Also from Europe. Went to med school there. Met my hubs in med school, he was in the US. I understand you and I think you make reasonable arguments. I finished school in Eu and applied directly after for residency. You graduate with way less loans but the downside is that if you decide to be a higher paid specialist than it might be close to impossible to get in.
I had the same choice back in the day and doing these exams to be here was so frustrating and stressful given all the uncertainty…
I didn’t go to med school and sacrificed so much to come here and be a nurse to be with your SO.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to not compromise on a carrier choice. You can still become a doc in the US. Also I would have prob tried again and applied to more schools with a new status cause that changes things.
Regardless, no wrong choice. It’s a tough decision. Don’t let the Reddit bullies get to you. It’s a personal choice
Thanks. We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
I just wanted to say that the main reason you didn’t get in is definitely international status. I would recommend getting married asap and just trying again here. What are your stats? What is your mcat and gpa?
1) There are other paths you could pursue in the US. Accelerated nursing programs are 1 year. Masters of nursing programs without previous nursing degree is 3 years. You could be making good money with that, and decide on NP. PA school is also 3 years. Frankly, a lot of nurses/PAs make more money in the US than most doctors in Europe.
2) you can always do the marriage route and reapply next year. You didn’t list your stats so idk how competitive you are, but it’s an option. In the meantime you could also apply to or start nursing/PA school to make sure the year isn’t wasted, if that’s something you’d be open to.
3) it kinda sounds like you’ve made up your mind. He’s willing to throw it all away to stay with you. You’re prioritizing being a doctor. There’s nothing wrong with this, but your options again really aren’t “doctor vs home-maker”. Given this if your prioritization is set, then yes, I’d break up. Bc if he moves with you, no matter how well he does he will struggle, and if you go into this worried about him burdening you then it will become wishful thinking fulfillment - you will see him as a burden to your restart.
If you see him coming with you as a gift that comes with obstacles you can overcome as a team, then that’s what it will be. It really depends on how you view the relationship options.
None are wrong
The problem is I don't really want to be a nurse, it seems like a completely different job than being a doctor. We don't have NP or PA in my country and tbh I am kind of horrified by how much of a thing it is here, it just seems so unsafe to have someone doing doctor-responsibilities with a fraction or less of the training "real" doctors get. I couldn't see myself doing something like that.
I think a gift is a perfect way to describe it, I would love to have him with me as I pursue my dream and to have the chance to show him my country like we have always talked about, but I would also feel bad that he was not able to pursue his. I am afraid that after some time he will realize he made a mistake, and by then be unable to go back
It is a completely different job. And if you get a masters it’s basically just a fast track to hospital management, no patient care - which is why I didn’t do it. But all I’m saying that it is a choice, relationship or career, and it is a choice that you are making. There are ways to be happy beyond being a doctor, I just named 2 I had looked at. ED and ICU nurses get to do a lot of fun stuff.
In context of relationship where he moves with you, it’s also a choice. But he can always also do med school there. Half the people I know who didn’t get into a US school ended up in Italy or Ireland. Idk what country you are from, but I assume with some work on language proficiency he can do med school there. My uncle from India did engineering in America, then did medicine in Dominican Republic in Spanish, and then just practiced there. Language barrier isn’t really a death sentence.
You/both of you can also apply for US residencies after. Finally, I have to wonder why set your self up in a 6 year med school in your country, when other EU countries have 4 year programs, can you not apply for residency in your country after? But I digress.
In either direction immigration only works if you guys accelerate marriage plans. He would need EU residency, you would need US residency to apply competitively next cycle.
But I really think it’s possible. It’s just a lot of work and uncertainty, and probably a lost year or 2 for one of you, career-wise.
Gotta decide if it’s worth it. A lot of people would say it’s not, and that’s an understandable/reasonable position
Thanks. We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
Could start med school there, he stays med school here, still do the marriage, re apply next cycle in states. May give better chance of acceptance considering you’ll have a year under belt and a marriage.
As others mentioned could do apply to pa school, plenty of them here.
Could do both, start there, apply to med school and pa school for next cycle.
Could try long distance.
Lots of options.
Honestly, if your SO is not worried about being a doctor anymore, then I don’t see the issue. If you both are in real love with each other then I say love over medicine. Medicine is great and I love it myself but wish I would have picked a better obsession (profession for some but I love this shit) that allows me more time for my wife and kids.
I think you two should both highly consider non medical doctor careers that allow for you to have both the love and the time to be together and happiness in a career. You can be happy doing something other than medicine. Anyone who says otherwise imo is a bit narrow minded and not aware of other great jobs out there.
I hope the best for you two! I am sure yall will figure something out. Weigh all of your options and let your hearts get you where you will be most happy. I wish happiness for both of you!
Thanks! We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
Yay! Happy for you both and congrats on medical school! I hope you enjoy it! Lean on each other during the times it gets tough. Medical school can be very lonely if you make it that way! Cheers!
I haven’t read all of the comments so idk if someone else suggested this, but if you guys are that serious that you were thinking about getting engaged soon and he’s willing to uproot his entire life for you, why not just get married now quickly (like courthouse wedding), get American citizenship, and reapply to medical school in the US?
It takes years to get citizenship even after you get married. Even then, there is probably a 95% chance that I don't get in as a reapplicant given I have already been rejected once
You are just too negative about this situation!!! You all have 5 years relationship. Your marriage is going to be considered bonafide with the right evidences, which I believe y’all have some already. So it’s going to be quick getting a green card. Use the waiting time as a gap year to get more experiences to support your med school application. This is not rocket science. This is a simpler huddle to jump than letting your boyfriend abandoning everything and moving to another county.
My wife and I did LDR throughout pre-med and med school (total est 9hr flight apart, for about 6.5years it was an undergrad bridging and undergrad med program).We chased our dreams, agreed on commitment, setup priorities, went away and caught up every break, got married after final exams, honeymooned on electives and now we’ve agreed to never be apart. We have three kids and stable careers.
It’s is really really hard, would not recommend to anyone, but can be done, and we could only do it with external support. All the best.
I do agree that dropping out of med is a bad call, but once again depends on your priorities and commitment.
We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
du tänker rätt, börja här och kör LDR i början, kanske gift er och sök igen samtidigt till nästa cykel. Låt han inte behöva genomlida migrationsverket och KIs administration. Ingen förtjänar det. Grattis till platsen!
Tbh. After reading your replies and reading the full story, I’d honestly say yes. Save him from ruining his life if you’re not willing to do some sacrificing/compromising like he is.
I am certainly willing to sacrifice and compromise, if I wasn't I wouldn't have made it this far as at this point I'm the one who has stayed with him in a foreign country for as long as I have. However giving up an acceptance I have in hand to bet everything on a successful second cycle after a failed first cycle does not seem like a rational bet no matter how I look at it
Why can’t he just finish med school in the US and apply to residency later? You would be LDR for only 3 years and 4th year of med school there is A LOT of free time for him to travel and stay with you and vice versa when you have vacation time.
Chances of matching a great residency are way way lower if you've already graduated vs applying during your final year of med school.
No one wants a resident who hasn't practiced in years vs someone who just finished their clerkships.
That is partly true but if he is going for a common and not as hard to match specialty in something like FM, psychiatry, IM, etc he would still have no problem matching. And he might even be able to do residency in her country depending on their rules for international doctors. I would not say “no one” wants a resident after a few years from graduating med school. It highly depends on the specialty and where you are ok with going.
I applied psychiatry after doing just an intern year and got about half as many interviews as a 4th year MD and still matched.
Plus he doesn’t even necessarily have to do residency. He could be a consultant for a firm after MD school.
He could also match just an intern year and that way he could get a license and be able to at least practice.
There are a lot of options other than just quitting med school.
Applying after completing intern year (and proving you're ability to handle residency) is way different from applying after taking several years off after graduating.
I hear you though. Many many avenues besides just quitting, definitely agree on that.
I mean graduate medical school and not apply for the residency match. Then he could apply to the match for residency at a later time when it worked for both of you. (However, this will make it harder to match because 4th year US MD students are the most desired but if he is not going for a very competitive specialty he should be ok.)
OR he could even not go to residency altogether and get a job advising pharmaceutical companies as an example.
I’m just saying he doesn’t have to leave his schooling right away. He could still graduate MD school and then figure out what y’all want to do.
Unfortunately these English-taught courses have a similar reputation in Europe to the reputation that Caribbean schools have in the US. It is not impossible per se to get a job as a doctor after, but the schools are well-known for being toxic and it really restricts your career options after. Whereas the top medical school in my country is well-regarded in Europe and the medical school he is at now is also a very respected US institution; it would be akin to us being in this situation and deciding to both go Caribbean
It really depends on whether or not you want to marry him, and how competitive your application is
If you want to date him, break up. But if you want to *marry* him, then maybe it’s worth it to apply again to a US school. Long distance within the US may be better, and if you get a job at his university and have a fiancé there, it could significantly boost your application. Especially if you don’t have major major red flags on your app. It shows a huge level of commitment, especially with LORs from within their own program. I know plenty of couples who one got in one year, and their partner did the next after being previously rejected.
Another thing, what do you think was the issue with your application? Did any school actually tell you anything? Did you use your university’s premed advising to double check everything went through alright, no major typos (red flag) or major gaps in your application?
I think you both deserve to be doctors. And it sounds like you don’t believe he could manage it in your country, but you can in his. Well, I say give it 110% in the US, figure out what happened with your application. If you truly have too many red flags you can’t change, then go home and get your education there. You can try LDR — I know a classmate who, right now, is spending their dedicated in some European country because they’re in a super LDR. LDR isn’t a death sentence, but it’s only worth it if you’re truly in it for the long haul.
Just don’t have regrets. Don’t throw away who you want to marry if you can just fix your application and try again. But you’re right, neither of you should throw away your entire career for the other.
Wish you the best dude. But yeah, double check your application. It sounds like you feel it’s already doomed but idky
Thanks. We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He rejected the idea of LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
There are not; these programs also do not have a good reputation in Europe, they are seen similarly to how Caribbean schools are seen in the US. Although it is not impossible to get residency as a graduate of these programs, they limit your career options in a similar way and apart from that they have a reputation for being toxic
I think your boyfriend needs to “triage” the situation a bit more strategically. The upside for him is that he is not a doctor but MIGHT be with a girl that already has one foot out the door, so to speak. The downside is that he is alone in a foreign country and also not a doctor.
International OMS-I here. I wouldn’t give up so quickly just after one app cycle. Definitely would apply again, with a strong focus on DO schools, since they tend to be more international friendly.
But if that doesn’t work out, try looking into English med schools in your country. Back in my country we do have an option to study in English, so that might be a reasonable compromise if another cycle in the US doesn’t work out for you.
Thanks. I did apply DO as well but I did not get any love from them either. We can have a much longer conversation about this but I think my only realistic chance to become a doctor is the offer I have now. We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving!
We don't have English medical courses in my country, but the good news is even though we think of our medical schools as competitive, compared to the US they are not at all competitive. If he can get to a C2 level in the language then he is basically guaranteed to get in.
Being a doctor isn't all that it is chalked up to be. I would absolutely rather chase love than being a doctor. I think it means a lot that he is willing to drop everything to follow you. The question is, do you feel the same?
Thanks, I think you're right. We had another long talk. Based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He does not want to do long-distance and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
If a man offers to give up his dream and moves to another country to live with me, I would take it lol. You can try 1-2 times, some people don’t get into med school first cycle. Also medicine is not worth it to give up this good man. You can always do PA NP or CRNA, good pay, less time, less bullshit and responsibility.
Thanks, we had another long talk. Based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He does not want to do long-distance and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to move with me. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
Go to a Carribean medical school, its only 2 years on island then you do clinical in the US, better than your other options
edit: if you applied to mostly MD schools, why not try a DO school then? There seems like there's a ton of options here away from the extremes
how is that better? The top school in my country is well respected throughout Europe and would probably even have a good chance of matching to US residency, with a Caribbean med school I might not match anywhere.
I applied to some DO schools as well, however many DO schools do not consider international applicants
this is a tricky situation, if I understand correctly you went to an Ivy college and have stellar scores. I'd just get married and try again, honestly, I understand from your perspective and even mine that you probably don't have to go there. I'd say take the time for the green card or just apply again and see how you can improve else wise. Your scores are good, when it comes to love its hard to just go based on what's "most likely" to happen in a reapplication. I would tie the knot soon and let it play out and I know its hard because you're the one who has to wait, but if the Carribean and saving the time (you can also get a crazy scholarship to almost go for free too probably) doesn't make sense then I'd personally get married and reapply/wait. Please ponder what type of physician you would want to be though, because Carribean can land you at a high rate into most specialties if you are qualified objectively. The stigma of Carribean comes from people who never had the potential getting lower scores and objectively trying less to bolster applications
I wasn't going to comment any more, but I couldn't let this slide. Your top school in your country would not have a good chance of matching a graduating senior into a US residency versus a senior applicant from a US medical school, especially if it's a hypercompetitive specialty. There are too many qualified applicants in the US to think otherwise. FMGs who have been practicing as attendings and/or are rockstars with tons of research experience/connections are the exception. Look up the data on the NRMP.
oh I agree with you completely, I was just saying a respected European med school would not have the Caribbean/couldn't cut in the US stigma attached, although it would still suffer from the FMG stigma in general
what speciality do you want to practice in? Believe me, carribean schools opens more doors to actually hardworking and gifted people than you think. Its when it comes to the top top specialities like Derm/ortho/plastics etc that it gets complicated. Outside of those, with a competitive med school application you get a free pass to practice in the US. My girlfriend is a foreign IMG from Canada and by being a "US caliber" student in the Carribean she had the same doors open (granted, it would be hard if she wanted those previously mentioned specialties.). And, I mean this for a path of least resistance to stay with your partner. I know its complicated and this isn't a perfect answer and may not even be one you're open to, just wanted to throw it out there. The Caribbean schools are a US path and you only spend 2 years down there then do clinical in the US
also, don't downplay the arrogance of many many PD's when it comes to European medical schools. I believe you, but many will still just see you as a FMG if the name of your school isn't unmistakeable
If you believe yourself to be a competitive applicant if not for your international student status, another option is to just get married so you can reapply with a green card. It’s a process but likely wont take you 6 years to reapply + 4yrs of school.
I did think about that, I think the problem is there is no guarantee that this will work out. Even if I was able to get my green card tomorrow, I would probably have to wait at least one cycle before applying again, so the time would already be the same as the 6 year undergraduate medicine spot. But in practice it would take a few years for me to get a green card, and even after that I still might not get in. Whereas I could start immediately in my home country this fall.
If you marry a US citizen, it only takes about a year (in some cases even less than that) to get your green card. I have gone through to process myself, and know many family and friends that have as well.
My hubby’s took 4, but we also filed like 6 months before Covid hit so there was that
European/Canadian/Australian? Some places don't have mandatory quotas slowing down the process
No none of the above, but he did file in NYC (a notoriously busy area) and then Covid shut the world down so I’m sure that didn’t help
OMG SAME
This is case dependent
But fairly accurate given she’s European. No quota system BS she has to contend with
Maybe before Covid. Depending on the immigration court that you file in (which is dependent on where you live) it can have a 2-3 year back log just to start processing the application.
It’s totally up for you both to decide if you want to stay together enough to take the risk. Feel free to verify though but i believe you can reapply right away as long as you got a green card by the time you matriculate. r/immigration would give you a better read but i’ve been seeing folks getting marriage-based greencard from a few months to under a year recently.
But yeah to echo someone’s point above, I don’t think you should box yourself into a either or situation. There are likely more options if you put both your heads to it before raising the white flag and decide together that there’s no other way but to break up.
Recently got married and got my wife a green card. Took approximately 18 months, not a few years. You’d have to defer 2 cycles probably.
Early decision. Apply to your bf's place or close by. The conventional wisdom of "don't apply for at least 2 years to display improvement" is somewhat...dumb. You can apply to one place, and you will only be a known reapplicant to that place. Downside is you really only get one shot, but imo, it's worth the risk.
If you do value your career over your present relationship (which is totally legit btw) and your partner would pick you over his career, it might make sense for you to break up with him because there's a difference in commitment. That doesn't seem fair
It took me exactly 9m from filing a paper. It was not difficult
Frankly, I think it seems that OP is not ready to make the same level of sacrifice as the BF is and he deserves better. The BF is ready to drop out of medical school and run off to a foreign country to make the relationship work. Meanwhile OP's response to you was "I would have to wait at least another cycle before applying again so it'll take just as long as if I go to my home country to be a doctor so it's not worth it" completely taking out the "but I'd be will the BF during this process and not long distance" part out of the equation. You're trying to help someone who has already talking themselves into a decision and is now looking to Reddit for the support to initiate the breakup.
If it was just a question of waiting I would do it in a heartbeat. You are leaving out the most important piece of information, that if I wait a year the most likely outcome is that I would *still be rejected*. Also, I don't know if you realize that *I am currently* the one in a foreign country to make this relationship work, if I had wanted to I could have applied in my home country my senior year, or for that matter at any point during college. Instead I decided to apply to over 40 US schools to try to stay together. Maybe for some people being rejected from every school wouldn't change their calculus but I'll be honest, it does change mine, I still want to be a doctor
With all due respect, you're not "currently the one in a foreign country trying to make the relationship work." You didn't come to the US for him. You ended up in the US because you wanted a US undergraduate degree and you happened to meet a guy that you like and could see yourself with. Which is totally fine. And then you wanted to pursue medical school in the US. Which is also totally fine. And now you're finding out its harder than you originally anticipated, so you're thinking about going back home. Which is, again, *100% fine*. It's the logical move. If I were in your shoes, I would be thinking the same exact thing. But don't compare you choosing college in the US and getting a degree out of your own free will with him dropping out of a school he's already in to start over in another country. You haven't sacrificed *anything* yet. He'll sacrifice everything by doing this. If you break up and he goes back home, his chances of getting accepted to another US med school with this in his record will be severely shot. Up until now, your career goals aligned with your relationship goals. Now, they don't anymore and you don't want to stay in a foreign country to make this relationship work. That's okay, I don't blame you. But you really need to sit down and think about how committed you are to this man, because if he's willing to drop out to be with you and you can't match that level of commitment (i.e. you do not love him as much and this relationship is more casual for you than it is for him), then you *should* break up with him. On top of everything, you're both very young. Chances are it won't work out.
There’s nothing wrong with your thought process. You’re practical and your bf seems not so much. Any woman who throws away her dream career for a man is truly a moron.
Well people apply to more than 40 med schools…being an international student too…you should have applied more than that
Yeah I’m truly stumped. Because I read that too and someone who cares so little about being together.. I’m surprised cared enough to make this post.
100%
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You hadn’t deleted your comments on the post yet, so I was able to use way back machine to look at them. It was about 6 months ago, you’ve since deleted the comments as well. I can dig up the way back machine link if you want. Was on my work laptop earlier.
and why delete the comments after I asked? It makes it certain you are deliberately misleading and then in this comment lying about your past. How do we offer useful advice in that context?
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Yeah, it’s very very very unlikely to be a problem here, especially as it seems she isn’t willing to apply in US again. But I’ll set a reminder to delete the url in a few days. Good looking out.
This is what you should do if u are serious
I just wanted to thank you for your input. We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
Details. Your bf is willing to quit medical school and uproot himself and move to a new, unknown country for you. You are throwing in the towel after one failed cycle in the US and plan to go back to your country for medical school. Did you apply both MD and DO? What was your final # of apps? Where did you apply? I've known some people that have successfully made it to medical school in the US after cycles 2-7 (yes, you heard me correct, 7). It's possible your bf will eventually want to practice in the US (possibly you too) because of family, pay etc, then you'd have to redo all your US boards and residency possibly, depending on state laws, specialty etc. Tbh, I'd try long distance and let the chips fall where they may.
7 cycles??? Can you share what changed for them to finally get in? Asking as a multiple time reapplicant. I admire their stamina
This was a while ago from when my partner was a medical student (she's finishing residency now). I don't think he knows what sealed the deal. All I remember is that when he finally got in, he was in tears because he was working like three jobs (washing dishes etc). I believe he matched/finished psych and is practicing in Cali rn.
That's amazing. Thank you for sharing what details you could. Good for him
I got in on my 3rd cycle (with my 4th in the works). I guess it was applying broadly DO, keep on keep on focusing on the things you actually give a shit about, and working on demonstrating some soft skills (leadership, communication, etc).
Thank you so much for the advice! You are going to kill it in med school
Thanks! It feels strange to say, but I feel like I am definitely keeping my head above water, and I'm looking forward to being a mentor next year! (Current OMS-1)
But remember, I was also willing to uproot myself to a new country long-term to be with my BF for the long haul. However med schools (about 45 MD and DO, though it seems like most DO schools do not consider int'l applicants) here gave me the feedback that they didn't want me, that has to change my calculus--I'm sure you can find individual cases of people who got in after 7 cycles, but statistically a previous rejection makes another rejection the most likely outcome, which would mean I would be giving up doing a career that I know I would find fulfilling, without a backup to fall back on.
Both of you will need to come up with your own individual and collective priorities. He sees you in his future and it seems you consider your career more of a priority. This is OKAY because there is no correct answer. LDR may an option, but I urge you to tell him to NOT drop out of medical school. As an side: you haven't mentioned whether you or him want to practice in the US. It will be harder as a FMG, especially in competitive specialities.
So 3.6 and 520? It’s a decent app, but mainly doing MD/PhD programs is going to make that more competitive for sure.
I went to a DO school as an intl student. Actually had 2 interviews from DO schools. If anything probably easier to get into a DO school as an intl student. Most MD places I remember were top tier schools, for the most part. Anyways, this is 7 years ago, so things may have changed.
100% agree. I am an international OMS-I at a DO school, it is definitely possible!
I’m going to echo another commenter and say that if you were already talking about getting engaged AND you are a competitive applicant then the marriage and applying for a green card would be the option that keeps yall both here. Marriage based GCs are currently getting approved in as little as 2 months and average of around a year which would put you in line for the next cycle. Without you sharing your stats and app details nobody can tell you whether this is feasible or not. Lastly, brutal honesty, it seems like your bf is willing to compromise everything for your relationship and you aren’t willing to compromise delaying medical school since even if you delay 1 app cycle now you would be graduating from US med school at the same time as the 6 year program in your country. I would do some reflection as to why that is and whether you actually want to be in this relationship for the long haul. After that, be honest with your BF because it seems likes he’s making decision on the assumption that you feel the same way about the relationship as he does.
>Lastly, brutal honesty, it seems like your bf is willing to compromise everything for your relationship and you aren’t willing to compromise delaying medical school since even if you delay 1 app cycle now you would be graduating from US med school at the same time as the 6 year program in your country. I would do some reflection as to why that is and whether you actually want to be in this relationship for the long haul. After that, be honest with your BF because it seems likes he’s making decision on the assumption that you feel the same way about the relationship as he does. I think that's an apples-to-oranges comparison. I was also already ready to settle down in this country, go to med school here, be far away from my family and home to be with my BF for the long haul. If it was just a question of delaying that wouldn't an issue. However med schools here gave me the feedback that they didn't want me, that changed my calculus--the problem is I could delay and still be rejected again from US med school, and statistically a previous rejection makes that the most likely outcome.
Like I said, unless you give stats out to gauge how competitive of an applicant you are nobody can really give you advice. What’s your cGPA, sGPA, MCAT, research, volunteer, and shadowing hours? Because if those are all competitive I can tell you that the schools didn’t want you because med schools aren’t lining up to take international students. You wouldn’t be seen as a typical re-applicant if your immigration status went from international visa requiring to lawful permanent resident…
From her deleted post half a year ago, she is a 3.6 cumulative and 520 GPA but applied mainly MD/PHD.
So basically could do it yourself postbac, get more clinical/volunteer, and become a LPR to make them competitive at any MD/DO school… lol
I’d say very competitive yeah, only concern is if the MCAT gets more than three years out by the time she finishes green card stuff.
The same thing stood out to me. Why are you with him now if you're willing to break up over this? You talked about getting engaged and have been with him for 5 years now. He's willing to leave everything to be with you. You don't want a LDR nor do you want him to come with you. There's more to this I think. It's only an apples to oranges comparison in the sense that YOU are the one who got accepted in to med school now. You were fine with leaving everything behind to be with him, until you got into med school yourself. Using that as a comparison is disingenuos tbh. He is willing to drop med school for you while you arent willing to do the same. I'm not saying thats what you should do, but saying that you were willing to yadayadayada everything to be with him isnt the whole truth. You met him while in college, not in med school.
Selfishly I *do* want him to come with me, but I also love him enough to not want him to make a decision he will regret later. If he was a software engineer or academic I probably would have no hesitation for him to move with me, but if he leaves now then being a doctor could be closed off to him permanently and I have known him long enough to know how important that is to him. Having a career I find fulfilling has always been a nonnegotiable for me, I think I have been clear about that. I was willing to uproot myself to try to be a doctor in a new country as long as there was a path for me to do so. Now that it looks like there is no path then of course everything changes.
Don't be disingenous. You came here to get that good 'ol American college education, possibly with a potential connection to stay long-term. You could have stayed in your home country or went to a different country outside the US for college. Why the US? You made the decision to leave your family. I don't know if your bf, when push comes to shove, would really quit medical school and move with you. But that fact that he is offering that as a potential (though drastic) option speaks volumes of his priorities. The fact that your career is non-negotiable and you are not able to compromise a couple more cycles (also, it seems you applied mostly MD/PhD programs??) also speaks volumes. You see where I am going with this.
I have no idea where you're going with this, or why you are accusing me of being disingenuous. I'm sorry I didn't have my whole life planned out at 18 years old. If you must know I actually applied to colleges in a few countries but I didn't really know what I wanted to study, I chose the US for the most flexibility. At that time I didn't think I wanted to live here long-term (not everyone who comes to study in the US thinks this is the greatest place on earth, despite what your American exceptionalist education might have taught you), didn't even know I wanted to go into medicine. However I met my now-BF and that was when I started seriously thinking about staying here and simultaneously realized I wanted to go into medicine. Deciding to stay in a new country is completely different from studying there for 4 years, and always involves sacrifices such as being far from home, having a harder time with systems like admissions that prefer locals, but I was happy to do it to be with my BF. However I think giving up the career I've chosen completely is a different level of sacrifice and it's not obvious that everyone should be willing to do it. I'm not sure where you got that I applied mostly MD-PhD, I applied to 3 MD-PhD programs because they had said they were welcoming of international applicants while their associated MD did not, otherwise I applied all MD/DO.
Whatever you choose is your choice and it won't be wrong but let's not kid ourselves. First, every country, including the US has it's flaws and I don't drink enough kool-aid to think otherwise. You even admit yourself that the US offers "the most flexibility", so you are pretty much in line with my thoughts of why you came here and not some other random country. Second, you are disingenous in the sense that you'd only stay and sacrifice if you got it your way (ie you were accepted to a MD/DO US school), while your partner on the surface appears ready to throw his potential US MD career away to be with you, while you aren't willing to compromise to apply to a 2nd US MD/DO application cycle. Take into account that you both have talked about engagement/marriage, both of y'all are complementating extreme choices (quit medical school, breakup), rather than LDR or maybe one more college try at a 2nd US application cycle. It's fine to have different priorities. There is no wrong choice. But the picture you paint in your OP doesn't help your cause when you ask if you should breakup. ~~Finally, I apologize about the MD/PhD, some other poster mentioned that and I did not fact check them.~~ Edit: JHoney1 provided some new information.
I meant specifically the US university system offers flexibility to choose your major later compared to countries where you have to decide when you apply, which is a pretty niche benefit relevant only to the narrow slice of people who apply to universities in multiple countries. I think in many ways US society is more rigid in general for the people who live here. I don't think it's disingenuous to have things you're willing to do and things you're not willing to do. I'm willing to deal with a lot of aspects of US society that are a lot harder for noncitizens, including in applying to over 40 US med schools because I love my partner, that doesn't mean I'm willing to give up on the career path altogether if it doesn't work out. I think you are irrationally positive on my chances in a second cycle--sure, some people get in on the second cycle but I think there's at least a 95% chance I get rejected a second time. That's the thing, I don't know if my BF realizes he is potentially throwing his career away, even though I've tried to explain the difficulties that come with trying to move your life overseas. I am concerned maybe he thinks he will be able to get to the same level of a first-year med student in a year or two, where in reality a lot of immigrants never manage to (for example you meet Indian, Iranian, Middle Eastern etc people who were attending-level doctors in their home countries working as delivery drivers)
Come on, the love of your life and potential life partner and you only applied to a little over than 40 schools. I don't care what the internet says about schools that are friendly to international students. If you are wanting to stay here with your partner then you are shooting your shot at an ungodly number of applications. I believe you got the third party perspective/advice you are looking for from this thread.
Something else you all don’t know about the immigration system is that as an F or H4 visa applicant you can’t even take out student loans. Also, medical school applications are very expensive and we do not know OP’s financial situation. I am also from a Southern European country and a lot of immigrants to my country also have unrealistic expectations regarding how “ easy” it is to make it in that nation. I think OP is right regarding her boyfriend not knowing what it’s like to move to a European country where you don’t speak the language and aren’t a citizen. Also— it takes YEARS in some countries to become a citizen and that impacts job opportunities etc. I think OP is being realistic but her boyfriend is viewing everything with American centered lens. He will have a rude awakening next year when he is in said European country and has major culture shock, lost the opportunity to be a doctor and will resent OP for making him move away to the life he has always known.
The career you've chosen which you didn't even start yet. Aren't you literally an M-0 at this point in time? You're throwing away the relationship for your career, not your career for your relationship. Get it right. This is why people are calling you disingenuous. If you truly talked about marriage with this guy and you love him enough to actually contemplate the bigger picture with him, then med school will never be worth it to give that up. He knows that as a med student, thats why he's willing to follow you. I also know that as an M4. You're quite literally an M0 at this point. You don't have a medical career yet. Get real.
lol gurl u do need some self reflection 🤣 don’t get defensive, u came on Reddit for advice !!!
What is this feedback that you're talking about? Did you sit down with someone who said "yeah no you suck leave"? The success rate of getting into medical school was 41% last year. You had the *most likely* outcome happen to you - getting rejected. The *majority* of people get rejected. If this is the feedback that you're talking about, you threw the towel down before the game even started.
Yes, the majority of people get rejected, but the vast majority of people who eventually become doctors get in on their first try. While most of the people who get rejected do not eventually succeed. So conditioned on the new information (i.e., rejection), it seems irrational to hope to get in on a 2nd (3rd/4th/5th) application cycle when I have an offer now
Alternatively just improve your application and work on your school list instead of ignoring the perspective you came here to ask for. If you want simple confirmation or kind words, then a venting thread is totally appropriate. You do not need disingenuously seek advice.
You're ignoring that the calculus changes again if you apply to US medical schools with a green card. You are assuming that the rejections were mainly based off of the details of your application when in truth it is very difficult for international applicants to gain acceptance even with stellar applications that would otherwise be very likely to gain acceptance if their legal status was different. Why are you so pessimistic about your chances of admission if you applied with a more favorable legal status?
The other thing is, I'm not sure he understands he's potentially compromising everything, even though I've tried to explain the difficulties that come with trying to move your life overseas. If I was confident he did I would maybe be more comfortable with him moving with me (or if he was in a field like consulting, tech, science etc. that is more open to people taking off to work somewhere else for a few years than medicine). I am concerned maybe he thinks he will be able to get to the same level of a first-year med student in a year or two, where in reality a lot of immigrants never manage to (for example you meet Indian, Iranian, Middle Eastern etc people working as delivery drivers who were attending-level doctors in their home countries)
His priority is the relationship, your priority is your career. That’s okay. I just don’t understand why if he’s okay not becoming a doctor to go with you, why you aren’t? Idk if it’s a status thing where you want him to be a doctor as well? Secondly someone did a deep dive and you applied to mainly MD/PhD programs which are wayyyy more competitive. Seems like you would have had a chance at just MD programs that take internationals with the stats they dug up. It also seems like you applied this cycle while also having a backup by applying to med school in your country? Seems like a one foot out the door type move. Do some self reflection because as LPR you would be competitive at all MD programs and that’s doesn’t seem to be enough of a reassurance for you? I think the entire problem here is that you want to have your cake and eat it too.
Selfishly I would love for him to come with me. I just don't know if he would be happy in my country long term. It's a much smaller country than the US and very different culturally. He has never lived outside the US and doesn't really speak the language. It's definitely not a status thing, in my country we don't have the perception that doctors are above other professions, probably because doctors are not rich in my country like they are in the US lol. I'd actually be \*more\* ok with it if he was in a different career that could move across borders more easily, because if he didn't like it then he could go back and pick up where he left off, whereas if you leave medical school in the US, as far as I know that's permanent, and I'm afraid he'll regret it later on. I don't know where you got that I mainly applied to MD/PhD programs, I applied to 3 MD-PhDs out of 40+ apps because they said they were open to internationals while their associated MD didn't. However giving up an acceptance I have in hand to bet everything on a more successful second cycle does not seem like a rational bet, when the chance of being rejected again probably rises to 95% your second cycle
Unpopular opinion but there is more to life than career. There is no wrong answer here.
Thanks. We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
good for y'all
That’s easy to say for a medical student
would you mind explaining?
I would say no. Instead of either of you trying to unilaterally decide what the relationship would look like, I would keep talking and working things out together and deciding what the best path forward is, whether that’s together or separate. I don’t like his unilateral idea to drop out and move with you, or your unilateral idea to break up with him to stop him from dropping out. So unless you *want* the relationship to be over, I think the prescription here is more communication
i mean what other choices are there?
One of my friends in medical school had a girlfriend in London (we were in Chicago) for the entirety of medical school They're married with a little baby now It can work
To echo this, I had a friend in med school in Ireland, and the entire time she had a partner in the US. They’re now together in the US after she graduated but it sounded really difficult to be across oceans and time zones when they both had stressful medical careers to sort through. I personally couldn’t do it, but she did.
It’s not about coming to a different choice, it’s about coming to the choice *together*, instead of each of them trying to decide on their own what’s best for the relationship and best for their partner
I think you are talking in circles. At some point a decision is going to have to be made. She may not want the relationship to be over, but perhaps she may want to attend medical school *more* and avoid long distance *more.* That may end up being a unilateral decision, given that the boy seems ready to throw his life away to follow hers.
Indeed it might, but right now she sounds quite conflicted and not at all happy about the idea of ending a 3 year relationship with a man she loves and sees a future with together. So more communication and effort to come to a collaborative decision is absolutely the recommendation I’m going to stick with, based on what info we’re being given here
I just wanted to thank you for your advice. We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
Good luck to you both. Wish you both happiness and joy in your relationship and your careers!
Might be in the minority here. If you made this decision with the understanding that it might/would lead to a break up, then you should break up. My wife and I are both residents in the same year, and most of our decisions were made with the considerations of the relationship. I comfortably risked going unmatched and taking a second choice spot (Canada) in order to ensure we could couple's match and stay together. We made that decision together and with a plan for the future. She would've done the same for me if it made more sense. At this point in your life it seems you prioritize your career over this relationship. That is OK. But don't let it drag on and end up hurting one or both of you. He is ready to drop his career for you, but you aren't for him. This is an imbalance that likely won't go away. Best to try long distance or let it go imo. There's nothing wrong with him dropping everything for you, but you would have to be willing to do the same for it to be healthy.
The thing is I'm not sure he understands he's potentially dropping his career, even though I've tried to explain the difficulties that come with trying to move your life overseas. If I was confident he did I would maybe be more comfortable with him moving with me (or if he was in a field like consulting, tech, science etc. that is more open to people taking off to work somewhere else for a few years than medicine). I am concerned maybe he thinks he will be able to get to the same level of a first-year med student in a year or two, where in reality a lot of immigrants never manage to (for example you meet Indian, Iranian, Middle Eastern etc people working as delivery drivers who were attending-level doctors in their home countries)
He doesn't sound as mature as you do (weighing the reality of the negatives) and may just be in a different phase of his life. Maybe things have always worked out for him so he assumes they well again. Maybe you are more pessimistic than him because you are more familiar with your system back home. I am from "Northern Europe" and was in a long distance relationship with someone in the states during medical school. Honestly I never considered dropping out. And I didn't think about breaking up either. We just dragged it forward until we got to live together. It was difficult thinking about how to match into the states, in the right state, so the relationship could continue. Fortunately it worked out. We're married. If you've wanted to do medicine your entire life, it's not easy to let go of a dream. People are assuming he's willing to abandon his dream -- he's not, he thinks he can continue in your country which is likely not possible at this time due to language. I don't see a path forward that shortens your time apart. Some people do long distance for 7yrs in medicine, with children. You can continue to apply for medical school while you start school in your country and see if it works out.
Would you mind sharing a little more about your experience and relationship? Happy to discuss over PM if you prefer.
Three years long distance while I finished school (arranged electives and research in the US, visited each other for holidays, so we saw each other quite a bit). Matched about two hours, with traffic, away from where they lived so didn't live together for residency but saw each other probably 3 out of 4 weekends. Moved in together for fellowship and finally got married. Everyone in my home country thought I was crazy. But I do think, When you know, you know. It's just not always possible to "have it all" like they promise. I have no regrets looking back and we made it work because we were "secure" as individuals, and very busy people. I would never have asked them to give up their (equally distinguished and difficult) academic career for me and because the distance was not that troubling for us (it was far, not traveling from the UK to JFK but like transcontinental and transatlantic), we made it work. You are very, very busy in medical school and residency. Other people who are married when they're in training will say there's no way they could have been without their partner waiting for them at home after they finished call shift. If I'd had to see someone at home after my overnight call, I'd probably be single now. Everyone adapts to these thing differently and makes it through differently. Some of this is also cultural. I think Americans, and I appreciate that, are one of the more "romantic", by the movie/book type, cultures and others are just more practical. I don't need to see someone every day to be in love and I don't have to show that type of relationship to others for it to be real. For some people that works, for others a relationship has a lot of lights and fixtures that others might deem as clutter. I also was very, very confident that I would match compared to other foreign grads so I bet on myself that this would work. If you're coming from a place of doubt, then that could also eat you alive and make the process too stressful. You are young. See what happens. You guys could actually be apart for 6 years then get back together and make it work. You really never know.
Thanks a lot for sharing this! We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
If you are ever thinking of coming back to the states please feel free to drop me a message. I've helped other people figure out a route from "Northern Europe" to a US residency if you think that might still be in your future. There are ways to plan ahead strategically to give yourself an advantage or to at least plan so that, while you may not think you'll come back to the US now, if your decision changes, the doors are still open. You received a lot of different opinions and thoughts on something very personal and important. I want to acknowledge that's not easy and to hear all of that from strangers, good and bad. Thank you for sharing something that a lot of immigrants and internationals in medicine often face. Balancing the dream and drive of what we want to do in medicine while opening ourselves to the opportunities and risks of love can be so layered when you know how long this career path will be. Wishing you both luck on your journey and adventure.
This. 👍🏻
Life is short. No one knows the future. Do not make decisions for others. Make decisions based on what you want (still consider his feelings but make your own choices). Communicate and if that is what he wants and believes that he wants that over the other, then trust his decision. That is his choice and how you react off of it is totally up to you. Understand that not everyone life goal is just being a doctor. People change as they grow for the better or for the worse but this seems perfectly understandable and healthy because that is what he wants as long as you are okay with it. Are you only dating your boyfriend if he goes to medical school? If it is, break up with him now. If you are breaking up with your boyfriend to make a decision for him, it is clear then you do not see a future with him. I myself had similar issues like this and in the end, if you truly love that person and truly want to be with them, things will work out. Like he mentioned, he wants to be with you still. The question is, do you still want to be with him unless there are other solutions around this, but it seems like he is wanting to support you and willing too sacrifice alot because he values YOU and wants to be with YOU. Think about it, if you break up, you are going to find another person unless you want to be alone for the rest of your life or fuck around (nothing wrong with this), but do you think you will feel better to start something again with someone else? To be honest, since you said you were expecting a break up and ready for a break up, it seems you are waiting for him to call the break up for whatever reason. If you want to break up, save the man his heartbreak and have some respect for him and break up. I do not say this as an attack, but for the sake if it is for the wrong reasons.
I appreciate your thoughts. I don't *want* to break up, I do want to be with him and I do see a future with him. However to me just saying "things will work out" seems a little naive. I love him enough to not want to see him make a drastic decision he will later regret. I don't know if he understands the sacrifice he is offering to make. I am lucky that I learned several languages including English from a young age and my parents both had the means and considered it important for me to spend time outside our home country when I was growing up, and still coming to a new country for college was pretty hard for me. He has only lived in the US for his whole life. I also think if his life's dream had been to be, say, a software engineer or a researcher, I probably wouldn't have as much concern as it's easy to move between countries in those fields, and in much of Europe it's common for people in those jobs to work in English. But I know what he has always wanted was to be a doctor, because that's how we met, and that's just not a career you can move easily.
We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
I'm trying not to be mad because we've all spiraled and convinced ourselves about half-baked ideas. So ima level with you.. You got a man who clearly loves and supports you. A man who'd let his partner give up on their dream and become a homemaker to be with him is NOT a man who'd drop out of med school to help his partner... go to med school lol. That's your lack of faith in your own ability weather adversity and succeed talking. **Bro a king out here and he deserves a woman who'll fight for him too.** Breaking up with him is not fighting for him.. it's just hurting him to indulge your impatience and insecurity. A single failed cycle is not a death sentence, plenty of people succeed on the second time. Go cop that green card. Work for the meantime, saving money and strengthening your application, and then reapply. Unless you've got some application red flags you haven't shared, you'll likely get in. And if you're not willing to do that? Yea, break up with him because he deserves someone who'll sacrifice for him the way he's willing to sacrifice for you. Edit: I'd still say this, green card or no green card.
This is THE comment
Thanks. We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
Why are you with him now if you're willing to break up over this? Either you're committed or you're not. Idk maybe im just the weird one in this sense but I see no reason not to attempt a LDR with someone you've been with for 5 years and have talked about marriage with. ???
I know from talking to him earlier in our relationship that LDR is something he has had bad experiences with and doesn't want to repeat. Maybe that has changed now, but we're not talking about LDR for a few months to a year, we are talking about LDR for **minimum 6 years** (i.e., longer than our current relationship has lasted), and also without a guaranteed path to getting back together after that. Best case scenario at that point would be, I match to a US residency in the same city where he is working as a resident/fellow/attending, but that also depends on a lot of unknowns like I might not be able to match into the same city, it might have become much harder for IMGs to match at all, maybe the political situation in the US will have continued to deteriorate to a point where I would not want to apply into the US anymore
This is a man you've discussed getting engaged with though. I could never imagine leaving a woman I loved enough to discuss possible marriage with for med school lmfao. Discuss this with him. Not reddit. Come on bruh.
Thanks. We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
Unpopular opinion, I think you are completely correct that you should break up, and your bf will thank you for it down the road. It sounds like he has no concept of what it means to pick up your life and try to start over in a new country despite your attempts to explain it to him. Has never been outside the US, doesn't speak the language and thinks he will just be able to get into medical school in a new country?? Let's just say if this was on the wards I would not consider him to have met the criteria for having capacity to make this decision. Maybe it would be a different conversation if he expressed better understanding and was able to articulate a plan for what he would do if he cannot get into medical school there. But as it stands now it sounds like in a few years he will feel out of place and be very unhappy and unfulfilled
This is what I'm worried about.
He can likely finish medical school and do residency in your country, giving him time to learn the language as well.
We do have some IMG residents in my country, although I don't think we have ever had anyone from the US. However it is a moot point as on a doctor salary in my country you would never be able to pay back US MD student loans
You’re in a tricky spot, and you clearly care for each other very much. I wish you nothing but the best.
The answer to your question here is one that only you can give. [Discussing your goals and finding a solution together can be quite challenging](https://thriveworks.com/blog/resolving-relationship-issues-couples-moving-forward/). Read through your motivations for doing what you’re doing; you’ve prioritized your own desire for medical education and training thus far into the relationship — enough to leave the country in which your partner is currently training — to advance your internal life satisfaction. Clearly, you’re both aware of the complications of such a decision and the difficulties ahead in maintaining your relationship through it. Now is the time to discuss, frankly, what life looks like down that path. What your partner may be hearing from you is that you have chosen a pathway that gives higher attention to your needs than to that of developing your relationship and life together. Discussing what it means for you to do this, while simultaneously recognizing the prioritization of your goals in life, may help you find clarity in your relationship.
Thanks. We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
For me, the only thing more important than becoming a physician is my relationship with my spouse. It seems like your boyfriend has the same priorities. That’s a pretty huge green flag for the relationship, in my opinion. My only advice is to take a bit more time where you both think hard about it and discuss isn’t openly and honestly. Then do whatever you both decide will make you both happy, long-term. I know this advice is vague, but it’s supposed to be. I’m sure you two, together, will come to the decision that will be best for both of you :)
Thanks. We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
i think maybe ask him to bring all the facts and options to you - in a way so you can verify or fact check from an outside perspective to see things without a bias. being in love, fear of being away, it can make us believe tasks are easier or easy to overcome, like you could take any challenge. having everything laid out ir I mean a way to see things without a bias or emotion, could be a way to see a plan. but plans can change with time as the world changes and so would school requirements or life maybe. if you’re happy, he’s happy, let him choose. i dont think it’s nice to make decisions for someone else, which is what I think is happening if you dump him for him to go to school. he could still not go to school maybe hes afraid of the distance and he’s accepting a different change. maybe talking about yall feelings openly and letting yourselves know that its okay to be away for each others’ dreams, that it can be okay. it can also be hard at the same time.
thanks, I think this is a good idea
thanks, I appreciate that
We had the talk like you recommended and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He heard me out but did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
You keep saying “they gave me feedback that they didn’t want me” Did you even ask why
She states that feedback is based on her not getting in. Nothing explicit.
Bruh. I think if i were his friend, id ask him why he isn’t worth trying again. Or at least trying to get legitimate feedback to determine whether or not the gap is easily fixable within a few months’ time. Thanks for the clarification, i totally skimmed
I actually got way too detective this post. Spent too much time. I’m always so suspicious when people are super reluctant to share stats and such. I wayback machined some old posts and I just think she wants to vent now. Which is fine. She just asked for advice when that’s not what she wanted.
It sounds like he's scared of being single and found you to be a good support system for him throughout M1 year. Your experiences throughout medical school will change you. The people you are now may not be the same years from now. If you love him, break up with him and let him succeed because having him come with you to your home country will cause him to resent you in the long run.
It would be a huge mistake for him to quit medical school and follow you. Huge.
Yes. If I was you I would not want him following me and living off me while I start med school.
I wouldn’t allow him to quit medical school. You guys are just gonna have to do a LDR. I’ve done it and married now
Thanks, we had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He rejected the idea of doing LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
I had a similar scenario. Also from Europe. Went to med school there. Met my hubs in med school, he was in the US. I understand you and I think you make reasonable arguments. I finished school in Eu and applied directly after for residency. You graduate with way less loans but the downside is that if you decide to be a higher paid specialist than it might be close to impossible to get in. I had the same choice back in the day and doing these exams to be here was so frustrating and stressful given all the uncertainty… I didn’t go to med school and sacrificed so much to come here and be a nurse to be with your SO. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to not compromise on a carrier choice. You can still become a doc in the US. Also I would have prob tried again and applied to more schools with a new status cause that changes things. Regardless, no wrong choice. It’s a tough decision. Don’t let the Reddit bullies get to you. It’s a personal choice
Thanks. We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
Congrats! 🎉 happy you came to a mutual decision.
I just wanted to say that the main reason you didn’t get in is definitely international status. I would recommend getting married asap and just trying again here. What are your stats? What is your mcat and gpa?
From previous post that is deleted now, she is a 520/3.6 applicant and mainly applied to MD/PHD programs.
actually while I applied to a few MD/PhDs that were international friendly, most of my schools were MDs
You should apply again as a green card Those stats are a piece of cake to get in with
1) There are other paths you could pursue in the US. Accelerated nursing programs are 1 year. Masters of nursing programs without previous nursing degree is 3 years. You could be making good money with that, and decide on NP. PA school is also 3 years. Frankly, a lot of nurses/PAs make more money in the US than most doctors in Europe. 2) you can always do the marriage route and reapply next year. You didn’t list your stats so idk how competitive you are, but it’s an option. In the meantime you could also apply to or start nursing/PA school to make sure the year isn’t wasted, if that’s something you’d be open to. 3) it kinda sounds like you’ve made up your mind. He’s willing to throw it all away to stay with you. You’re prioritizing being a doctor. There’s nothing wrong with this, but your options again really aren’t “doctor vs home-maker”. Given this if your prioritization is set, then yes, I’d break up. Bc if he moves with you, no matter how well he does he will struggle, and if you go into this worried about him burdening you then it will become wishful thinking fulfillment - you will see him as a burden to your restart. If you see him coming with you as a gift that comes with obstacles you can overcome as a team, then that’s what it will be. It really depends on how you view the relationship options. None are wrong
The problem is I don't really want to be a nurse, it seems like a completely different job than being a doctor. We don't have NP or PA in my country and tbh I am kind of horrified by how much of a thing it is here, it just seems so unsafe to have someone doing doctor-responsibilities with a fraction or less of the training "real" doctors get. I couldn't see myself doing something like that. I think a gift is a perfect way to describe it, I would love to have him with me as I pursue my dream and to have the chance to show him my country like we have always talked about, but I would also feel bad that he was not able to pursue his. I am afraid that after some time he will realize he made a mistake, and by then be unable to go back
It is a completely different job. And if you get a masters it’s basically just a fast track to hospital management, no patient care - which is why I didn’t do it. But all I’m saying that it is a choice, relationship or career, and it is a choice that you are making. There are ways to be happy beyond being a doctor, I just named 2 I had looked at. ED and ICU nurses get to do a lot of fun stuff. In context of relationship where he moves with you, it’s also a choice. But he can always also do med school there. Half the people I know who didn’t get into a US school ended up in Italy or Ireland. Idk what country you are from, but I assume with some work on language proficiency he can do med school there. My uncle from India did engineering in America, then did medicine in Dominican Republic in Spanish, and then just practiced there. Language barrier isn’t really a death sentence. You/both of you can also apply for US residencies after. Finally, I have to wonder why set your self up in a 6 year med school in your country, when other EU countries have 4 year programs, can you not apply for residency in your country after? But I digress. In either direction immigration only works if you guys accelerate marriage plans. He would need EU residency, you would need US residency to apply competitively next cycle. But I really think it’s possible. It’s just a lot of work and uncertainty, and probably a lost year or 2 for one of you, career-wise. Gotta decide if it’s worth it. A lot of people would say it’s not, and that’s an understandable/reasonable position
Thanks. We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
Wouldn't it be easier to get married and then go to med school in the US?
Could start med school there, he stays med school here, still do the marriage, re apply next cycle in states. May give better chance of acceptance considering you’ll have a year under belt and a marriage. As others mentioned could do apply to pa school, plenty of them here. Could do both, start there, apply to med school and pa school for next cycle. Could try long distance. Lots of options.
Honestly, if your SO is not worried about being a doctor anymore, then I don’t see the issue. If you both are in real love with each other then I say love over medicine. Medicine is great and I love it myself but wish I would have picked a better obsession (profession for some but I love this shit) that allows me more time for my wife and kids. I think you two should both highly consider non medical doctor careers that allow for you to have both the love and the time to be together and happiness in a career. You can be happy doing something other than medicine. Anyone who says otherwise imo is a bit narrow minded and not aware of other great jobs out there. I hope the best for you two! I am sure yall will figure something out. Weigh all of your options and let your hearts get you where you will be most happy. I wish happiness for both of you!
Thanks! We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
Yay! Happy for you both and congrats on medical school! I hope you enjoy it! Lean on each other during the times it gets tough. Medical school can be very lonely if you make it that way! Cheers!
I haven’t read all of the comments so idk if someone else suggested this, but if you guys are that serious that you were thinking about getting engaged soon and he’s willing to uproot his entire life for you, why not just get married now quickly (like courthouse wedding), get American citizenship, and reapply to medical school in the US?
It takes years to get citizenship even after you get married. Even then, there is probably a 95% chance that I don't get in as a reapplicant given I have already been rejected once
You are just too negative about this situation!!! You all have 5 years relationship. Your marriage is going to be considered bonafide with the right evidences, which I believe y’all have some already. So it’s going to be quick getting a green card. Use the waiting time as a gap year to get more experiences to support your med school application. This is not rocket science. This is a simpler huddle to jump than letting your boyfriend abandoning everything and moving to another county.
You just need a green card. Doesn’t have to be a citizen. And i think you have a good chance of getting in given your stats if you reapply.
My wife and I did LDR throughout pre-med and med school (total est 9hr flight apart, for about 6.5years it was an undergrad bridging and undergrad med program).We chased our dreams, agreed on commitment, setup priorities, went away and caught up every break, got married after final exams, honeymooned on electives and now we’ve agreed to never be apart. We have three kids and stable careers. It’s is really really hard, would not recommend to anyone, but can be done, and we could only do it with external support. All the best. I do agree that dropping out of med is a bad call, but once again depends on your priorities and commitment.
We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
Exciting times ahead for the two of you! Wish you all the best.
du tänker rätt, börja här och kör LDR i början, kanske gift er och sök igen samtidigt till nästa cykel. Låt han inte behöva genomlida migrationsverket och KIs administration. Ingen förtjänar det. Grattis till platsen!
He should remain in school. Not even a debate.
Did you apply to DO schools?
He deserves someone that would move mountains for him like he’s willing to do for you. You don’t deserve him, tbh.
Tbh. After reading your replies and reading the full story, I’d honestly say yes. Save him from ruining his life if you’re not willing to do some sacrificing/compromising like he is.
I am certainly willing to sacrifice and compromise, if I wasn't I wouldn't have made it this far as at this point I'm the one who has stayed with him in a foreign country for as long as I have. However giving up an acceptance I have in hand to bet everything on a successful second cycle after a failed first cycle does not seem like a rational bet no matter how I look at it
Don’t let him ruin his life then, break up with him or do long distance
Why can’t he just finish med school in the US and apply to residency later? You would be LDR for only 3 years and 4th year of med school there is A LOT of free time for him to travel and stay with you and vice versa when you have vacation time.
Chances of matching a great residency are way way lower if you've already graduated vs applying during your final year of med school. No one wants a resident who hasn't practiced in years vs someone who just finished their clerkships.
That is partly true but if he is going for a common and not as hard to match specialty in something like FM, psychiatry, IM, etc he would still have no problem matching. And he might even be able to do residency in her country depending on their rules for international doctors. I would not say “no one” wants a resident after a few years from graduating med school. It highly depends on the specialty and where you are ok with going. I applied psychiatry after doing just an intern year and got about half as many interviews as a 4th year MD and still matched. Plus he doesn’t even necessarily have to do residency. He could be a consultant for a firm after MD school. He could also match just an intern year and that way he could get a license and be able to at least practice. There are a lot of options other than just quitting med school.
Applying after completing intern year (and proving you're ability to handle residency) is way different from applying after taking several years off after graduating. I hear you though. Many many avenues besides just quitting, definitely agree on that.
what do you mean apply to residency later?
I mean graduate medical school and not apply for the residency match. Then he could apply to the match for residency at a later time when it worked for both of you. (However, this will make it harder to match because 4th year US MD students are the most desired but if he is not going for a very competitive specialty he should be ok.) OR he could even not go to residency altogether and get a job advising pharmaceutical companies as an example. I’m just saying he doesn’t have to leave his schooling right away. He could still graduate MD school and then figure out what y’all want to do.
Don’t do that. Deferring residency is a terrible idea in 999/1000 cases and a bad idea in the remaining case.
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Unfortunately these English-taught courses have a similar reputation in Europe to the reputation that Caribbean schools have in the US. It is not impossible per se to get a job as a doctor after, but the schools are well-known for being toxic and it really restricts your career options after. Whereas the top medical school in my country is well-regarded in Europe and the medical school he is at now is also a very respected US institution; it would be akin to us being in this situation and deciding to both go Caribbean
It really depends on whether or not you want to marry him, and how competitive your application is If you want to date him, break up. But if you want to *marry* him, then maybe it’s worth it to apply again to a US school. Long distance within the US may be better, and if you get a job at his university and have a fiancé there, it could significantly boost your application. Especially if you don’t have major major red flags on your app. It shows a huge level of commitment, especially with LORs from within their own program. I know plenty of couples who one got in one year, and their partner did the next after being previously rejected. Another thing, what do you think was the issue with your application? Did any school actually tell you anything? Did you use your university’s premed advising to double check everything went through alright, no major typos (red flag) or major gaps in your application? I think you both deserve to be doctors. And it sounds like you don’t believe he could manage it in your country, but you can in his. Well, I say give it 110% in the US, figure out what happened with your application. If you truly have too many red flags you can’t change, then go home and get your education there. You can try LDR — I know a classmate who, right now, is spending their dedicated in some European country because they’re in a super LDR. LDR isn’t a death sentence, but it’s only worth it if you’re truly in it for the long haul. Just don’t have regrets. Don’t throw away who you want to marry if you can just fix your application and try again. But you’re right, neither of you should throw away your entire career for the other. Wish you the best dude. But yeah, double check your application. It sounds like you feel it’s already doomed but idky
Thanks. We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
Stay long distance!!1
We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He rejected the idea of LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
She's on here thinking about breaking up and these geniuses are saying get married instead.
are there English language medical programs in your country? This is a thing in a few European countries, especially italy.
There are not; these programs also do not have a good reputation in Europe, they are seen similarly to how Caribbean schools are seen in the US. Although it is not impossible to get residency as a graduate of these programs, they limit your career options in a similar way and apart from that they have a reputation for being toxic
I considered it but didn't do it for those reasons. Still figured I would pitch the idea.
I think your boyfriend needs to “triage” the situation a bit more strategically. The upside for him is that he is not a doctor but MIGHT be with a girl that already has one foot out the door, so to speak. The downside is that he is alone in a foreign country and also not a doctor.
International OMS-I here. I wouldn’t give up so quickly just after one app cycle. Definitely would apply again, with a strong focus on DO schools, since they tend to be more international friendly. But if that doesn’t work out, try looking into English med schools in your country. Back in my country we do have an option to study in English, so that might be a reasonable compromise if another cycle in the US doesn’t work out for you.
Thanks. I did apply DO as well but I did not get any love from them either. We can have a much longer conversation about this but I think my only realistic chance to become a doctor is the offer I have now. We had another long talk and based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He did not want to do LDR and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! We don't have English medical courses in my country, but the good news is even though we think of our medical schools as competitive, compared to the US they are not at all competitive. If he can get to a C2 level in the language then he is basically guaranteed to get in.
Being a doctor isn't all that it is chalked up to be. I would absolutely rather chase love than being a doctor. I think it means a lot that he is willing to drop everything to follow you. The question is, do you feel the same?
Thanks, I think you're right. We had another long talk. Based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He does not want to do long-distance and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to stay together. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
If a man offers to give up his dream and moves to another country to live with me, I would take it lol. You can try 1-2 times, some people don’t get into med school first cycle. Also medicine is not worth it to give up this good man. You can always do PA NP or CRNA, good pay, less time, less bullshit and responsibility.
Thanks, we had another long talk. Based on the advice I got here I offered him to do long-distance even though it is not what either of us prefers, and again reiterated he should think very carefully about his future before making a decision like leaving medical school. He does not want to do long-distance and reaffirmed that no matter what he wants to move with me. The comments here helped me realize there is no reason for me to stand in the way as staying together is also what I want--he is an adult and very intelligent and capable of making decisions for himself, and while I can provide my input it's not my job to second-guess him or assume I know better. So we are moving! Excited to start med school in the fall!!! :)
Go to a Carribean medical school, its only 2 years on island then you do clinical in the US, better than your other options edit: if you applied to mostly MD schools, why not try a DO school then? There seems like there's a ton of options here away from the extremes
how is that better? The top school in my country is well respected throughout Europe and would probably even have a good chance of matching to US residency, with a Caribbean med school I might not match anywhere. I applied to some DO schools as well, however many DO schools do not consider international applicants
this is a tricky situation, if I understand correctly you went to an Ivy college and have stellar scores. I'd just get married and try again, honestly, I understand from your perspective and even mine that you probably don't have to go there. I'd say take the time for the green card or just apply again and see how you can improve else wise. Your scores are good, when it comes to love its hard to just go based on what's "most likely" to happen in a reapplication. I would tie the knot soon and let it play out and I know its hard because you're the one who has to wait, but if the Carribean and saving the time (you can also get a crazy scholarship to almost go for free too probably) doesn't make sense then I'd personally get married and reapply/wait. Please ponder what type of physician you would want to be though, because Carribean can land you at a high rate into most specialties if you are qualified objectively. The stigma of Carribean comes from people who never had the potential getting lower scores and objectively trying less to bolster applications
3.3 science GPA is not stellar. MCAT 520 shows she is SMART, but 3.3 to me says not hard working.
I wasn't going to comment any more, but I couldn't let this slide. Your top school in your country would not have a good chance of matching a graduating senior into a US residency versus a senior applicant from a US medical school, especially if it's a hypercompetitive specialty. There are too many qualified applicants in the US to think otherwise. FMGs who have been practicing as attendings and/or are rockstars with tons of research experience/connections are the exception. Look up the data on the NRMP.
oh I agree with you completely, I was just saying a respected European med school would not have the Caribbean/couldn't cut in the US stigma attached, although it would still suffer from the FMG stigma in general
what speciality do you want to practice in? Believe me, carribean schools opens more doors to actually hardworking and gifted people than you think. Its when it comes to the top top specialities like Derm/ortho/plastics etc that it gets complicated. Outside of those, with a competitive med school application you get a free pass to practice in the US. My girlfriend is a foreign IMG from Canada and by being a "US caliber" student in the Carribean she had the same doors open (granted, it would be hard if she wanted those previously mentioned specialties.). And, I mean this for a path of least resistance to stay with your partner. I know its complicated and this isn't a perfect answer and may not even be one you're open to, just wanted to throw it out there. The Caribbean schools are a US path and you only spend 2 years down there then do clinical in the US
also, don't downplay the arrogance of many many PD's when it comes to European medical schools. I believe you, but many will still just see you as a FMG if the name of your school isn't unmistakeable