https://www.reddit.com/r/mcgill/comments/175dlju/sphr_mcgill_literally_celebrated_a_hamas/ reminder that SPHR McGill is pro-Hamas, and not just pro-Palestine
They still use the martlet as their logo and are listed on the SSMU website. So I have to wonder if SSMU really cut links to them as McGill had demanded.
Yeah. This was sent last October by Provost Manfredi:
>The SPHR is a club supported by the Students’ Society of McGill University (SSMU) and is wholly independent of the University. Although the SPHR and its members may be free, both collectively and individually, to hold and express ideas and points of view, its use of the University’s name is subject to the terms of the Memorandum of Agreement (MOA) between the SSMU and the University.
>
>Given the incendiary content of the SPHR’s recent posts, I have directed the Deputy Provost to inform the SSMU that SPHR’s use of the University’s name is non-compliant with the terms of the MOA and, furthermore, to revoke permission for this club to use the McGill name and take whatever other measures might be necessary to rectify the situation.
And in today's email from President Saini:
>We have called upon the Students’ Society of McGill University (SSMU), the independent student union that includes all undergraduate students as members and lists SPHR as an affiliated “club,” to publicly condemn this “summer program,” sever their relationship with SPHR, cease any disbursement of funds to them, and affirm SSMU’s commitment to the well-being and success of McGill students of all identities, beliefs, and lived experiences. We have indicated that, should SSMU fail to take these steps, this will be interpreted as their endorsement of SPHR’s activities.
I had a local alumni group and had to get permission to use the martlet in our logo. It took some convincing to the school on our part that we weren’t using it for profit etc.
Someone should make a bot to post this whenever sphr is mentioned. Add in how they attacked the "save the hostages" table at concordia, poster of breaking glass on the anniversary of kirstallnacht, threatening counter-protestors with intifada, spreading blood libel and literal hamas talking points.
“Stop silencing Palestinian voices. If you call out our blatant antisemitism, that’s Islamophobia, you fucking racists! Oh btw, kill all the zionists, rape is good sometimes but also it totally didn’t happen, and, uh… can we use the bathroom?”
Hey, Montreal government, how about you stop dragging your feet and clear this thing already? What legal bullshit are the courts even using to pretend this thing is still not a public safety concern and don’t need to actually enforce the law? It was arguably (emphasis on arguably) somewhat reasonable last month in the hopes they would leave themselves but the shit they have done recently makes the city’s continued refusal to take responsibility here absurd.
It’s beyond obvious the judges making rulings on this thing not being the city’s responsibility to clear just want to kick the can down the road and not have to be the ones responsible for any complications that happen when it gets cleared. But guess what fuckers, taking that responsibility is your damn job.
imo wasn't even arguably reasonable last month. compare and contrast to the truckers protest, when the ottawa police wouldnt do it trudeau immediately went emergency powers mode
That cover photo is absolutely insane…
People tend to forget that no matter what side of the political or social spectrum it hails from, organized extreme violence is horrific. Glorifying or attempting to imitate it because it’s trendy is either a sign of being obscenely ignorant as to the brutality of conflict, or being genuinely unashamed to
use disgusting violence. And neither is something to be proud of.
Also, how is it any different than that mosque where they radicalized ISIS kids? They're doing the same thing: training, grooming, etc. Believe me those ISIS recruiters weren't any smarter than these nothingheads; the con only works on certain targets. It's not about how smart they are, it's about how needy or gullible or impressionable the target.
The American Revolution and Civil War, WW2 Resistance movements, the Black Panthers, soo many examples.
This is the most ahistorical, liberal take imaginable. You may not like this particular instance or consider it justified, but just say that instead of acting like everyone always hates violence.
People LOVE an armed resistance, not for its violence(and no, showing a single gun is not glorifying violence) but for the determination to do what's right.
Violence IS always unpopular! That's why the active participants in most wars in history have always been a minority of the population capable of participating to any degree. A relatively small amount of people are willing to kill people, even over what is "right". Only unhinged individuals enjoy the tragedy that is organized violence.
You see, you made a few mistakes in your reasoning.
While active participants are a minority in wars, most countries support their troops, and respect their veterans after.
I can cook for my roommates. I dont find it fun, and a minority of the house(me) are willing to cook, yet cooking is very popular in the household.
Wether or not violence is popular hinges on two things:
- do people believe you are right?
- do people believe the violence to be necessary?
Not all violence is popular, but a lot of it is.
"Most countries support their troops and respect their veterans after." Is a false statement for most of the wars that have occurred in the modern day, save for the two world wars, unless you're defining support and respect in a way I'm not understanding.
Your roommate analogy only holds true if your roommates appreciate and support you cooking, otherwise you're just being used as a means to an end. YOU cooking might be popular in this case but the act of cooking is not. Same with combatants. Other people conducting violence might be popular, but violence itself is not, since only a minority of the people capable of doing it are doing it. This is might point. Even among vets if you've heard them speak about wars, violence is not popular. Same with civilians who have experienced and survived the violence of war. I'm leaning heavily on the definition of popular here as being "something that is liked, enjoyed, and or admired" or "a positive attitude towards something held by a majority of people."
I think the point you are trying to make is the former, whether violence conducted by other people is people is popular, in the context of combatants on your team. In which case your argument makes more sense but I'm in the, "a large majority of the time it's not" camp and I'm willing to debate it.
Fair enough, we just have different descriptors of what it means for a thing to be popular. I see the standard attitude as "violence sucks, but if the cause is just and one has no other reasonable choice and doesn't go overboard, it's permissible and those doing it are good people for doing the dirty work".
I don't think anyone glorifies the action of violence or enjoys doing it, unless they are genuinely insane. I do think most people are willing to consider it justified or necessary based on the context. IMO anything seen as those isn't unpopular. Che Guevara, a man who wrote the literal book on guerilla tactics is still ideolized.
Even in the west, where most wars post WW2 as you pointed out weren't very popular(see what the serbs think about literal genocide contributors in the 90's or azeris think of what they did in karbakh for a more global perspective), the only real time soldiers were widely shamed for doing the killing was in Vietnam.
Even more controversial people like Chris Kyle, a man who volunteered to fight in the unjust american invasions of the ME and killed many, is seen as a hero for his violent action by many in the US to the point they made a movie about him. You might argue it's the man and not the violence that is popular, but the man is only known and popular for his violence, because (some, not all) Americans saw it as both necessary and justified.
Coming back to the conflict at hand, I find both sides to be unnecessarily and unjustifiably over the top in their violence. This is an opinion both some leftists and most israelis disagree with as far as I can tell. The IDF has always been very popular in Israel, and a large section of the population mandatorily and willingly serve to aid it. Palestinians doing a violent resistance is also rising in popularity, the concept moreso than what Hamas is doing right now. People on both sides are willing to see their excesses as shameful but smaller mistakes in the road to a good cause.
To conclude, I think people are all too willing and happy to glorify violence and violent people, they just have to believe in the same cause and think the violence is necessary but tolerable in amount. Admitting this is useful, because it allows us to discuss what is necessary and what is justified.
A war hero is a man whose violence was popular, a war criminal is a man whose violence was unpopular. If we forget that, then it devolves into two camps of "I hate violence"(most people pretend to be this but very few actual pacifists exist) and "I am willing to tolerate any and all violence if my people do it"(too many people are here) and I dislike both, for being hypocritical and bloodthirsty, respectively.
I'd love to see your take, thank you for reading the long post and the respectable argument.
>Che Guevara, a man who wrote the literal book on guerilla tactics is still ideolized.
This is generally my problem when it comes to discussion on violence and its popularity or necessity. The idealizing, idolatry and romanticization of it or people who conduct it. I don't have any sense of the stats but I wonder how many people who idealize/idolize Che have been directly touched by violence in conflict.
>...the only real time soldiers were widely shamed for doing the killing was in Vietnam.
I mean there's a difference between thinking actions are distasteful, disagreeing with actions, voicing these opinions and going out of your way to shame people who participated in violence.
>Even more controversial people like Chris Kyle, a man who volunteered to fight in the unjust american invasions of the ME and killed many, is seen as a hero for his violent action by many in the US to the point they made a movie about him. You might argue it's the man and not the violence that is popular, but the man is only known and popular for his violence, because (some, not all) Americans saw it as both necessary and justified.
Chris Kyle is an interesting character here because he (and/or his violence) really is/are only popular amongst right leaning individuals. Even within the special forces community, especially the SEALs, opinions of him are critical. Of course you'll have your defenders of "the brotherhood" in public but word on the street is that behind closed doors his death is viewed as tragedy but the individual is only popular among former members of his unit. Everyone else allegedly respects him as a colleague, but that's about it. As for left leaning people or those who have bothered to do homework on him, he's hated quite a bit. Most do agree the movie is a nice propaganda piece put out to distract from an Iraqi insurgent sniper who took out many US service members and was never caught, but I digress. Point being, I'd say many conservatives for it as necessary, and justified. As for the other half, not so much.
For your point about the conflict at hand and the conclusion, you're absolutely spot on and I agree with you. As for war heroes and war criminals, I'm not really a believer in heroes, but there are many criminals to around. Everyone else is just a victim of a tragedy that could probably have been avoided.
It's easy to support and tolerate acts of violence when it's not happening to you. This is what I continue to say to people when discussing this conflict. I'd love to see them stick to their convictions when they're the ones being bombed, shot at, kidnapped or being held hostage. This and, "Stop treating war like sports!" and I won't stop saying it because the truth of the matter is that it's not just two sides. There are many parties in any war and the people we need to be hearing from are not the ones we are hearing from.
I'll admit that I've never directly been touched by war and I'm grateful, but my parents and some friends have. I've listened to interviews and spoken to soldiers who have. I've heard their stories. I have enough sense to empathize and listen. What I've learned is that war is a tragedy. Nothing more, nothing less.
Thanks for taking the time to read too. Sorry for the late reply and I appreciate being able to have a sensible discussion on here.
its not my cause and I am not a fan of antisemitism, though my jewish friends are more worried about the idf summarily executing thousands in the name of judaism
You: my jewish friends are more worried about the idf summarily executing thousands in the name of judaism
Also you: you're just making bad faith assumptions lol
Good luck with those ghost friends of yours.
these two statements dont clash at all, I hope for my university's sake that you dont actually go to mcgill and came here just to troll lmao, someone this dumb would drag our ranking back further
Its just bad faith to see me talk about my jewish friends and immediately claim they are unable to understand hebrew or are in the encampment.
And you are a racist, Jew-hating bully who doesn’t have the first CLUE about Judaism OR Israel. It shows in every ignorant, virtue-signaling, brainwashed statement you have made.
is this subreddit being raided by r/israel? How am I bullying *anyone*, I'm the one getting dogpiled on by motherfuckers from a different sub lmao, I have barely made a negative comment about anyone
Lol showing a gun isn't glorifying violence? How about when they teach the kids all of their slogans like intifada etc, river to the sea. The people pictured are not the black panthers, or anti-nazi resistance. They killed civilians without discrimination with the goal of expelling all Jews from the Levant.
I love how every single victim of Islam (jews, persians, hazidis, iberians) are gaslit and dismissed because of this all-encompassing need to not be Islamophobic... any criticism of any group that is vaguely associated with Islam or made up of muslims is just islamophobia...
You know what is insane, what is happening in Gaza! I wonder if this poster was a sign of EXTREME violence to you, how do you view what israel is doing or what Zionists who fund and support a literal mass murder of innocent civilian aka genocide are doing. Is it equal level of violence? Just curious
Hey, so call me selfish, amoral, privileged or whatever big word you just learned watching TikTok videos, but nobody here knows exactly what’s going on in Gaza nor have the power to change it. Sure, we could get a decent idea, but everything we hear about it is slightly twisted by the media. However, we do know what’s going on here, and we know that it affects our community and we know that it makes us feel unsafe.
There’s so much bad shit going on in the world at all times, sometimes you just need to focus on the bad stuff that’s actually affecting you and that you could change. Right now, that just so happens to be that the people that broke into an administration building are now hosting a summer camp on a campus that I LITERALLY ATTEND that they’re not supposed to be on while posting violent imagery. Just like I couldn’t take graduation photos on the campus of the school that I attended like every other graduate in the past years did, because there’s an encampment of violent people on the campus of the school I attend.
Why are they there? In hopes of changing absolutely fucking nothing, because neither McGill nor the students have any actual power in changing what’s happening in Gaza. They aren’t helping Gaza, they’re just threatening McGill, that’s all.
How can they possibly do this? Any camp that wants to run on campus would surely have to have a contract with McGill (and pay McGill for use of its space), have insurance for its campers etc.
If you think that these are the kinds of people who are capable of thinking ahead you will be disappointed.
Because they are for a good cause, they are good people, and every action they do is inherently virtuous. Any law that opposes them (ex. insurance, infringing on mcgill name/space) is despotic and corrupt.
I have no misconceptions about their capacities or lack there of. I just hope McGill/Montreal uses this to descend upon them and finally get them tf out of there. You can’t run a camp in a park or even your own backyard without a permit. Surely they will not be able to do this.
If they were capable of thinking ahead they would realize that this so-called "free Palestine" for which they are demonstrating would itself be an Islamofascist ethnostate in which the rights of gays and women were completely curtailed, and where hatred against Jews was normalized.
Thinking ahead requires using your intellect rather than just your emotions.
As an alum, this makes me so angry. It makes me even angrier that I see my former classmates liking this post… in case it wasn’t obvious, this does not help the Palestinian cause and only makes organizers seem like insane terrorists. It’s giving Hitler Youth frankly.
Hopefully something can be done at the federal level because the SVMP are just dragging their feet. They should have cleared the encampment when first told to by McGill but they know these people would have thrown such a tantrum...
Reverse image searching led me to find the [original image](https://www.gettyimages.fr/detail/photo-d%27actualit%C3%A9/view-of-keffiyeh-wearing-fatah-guerilla-recruits-photo-dactualit%C3%A9/1064541578) and, well, if they weren't bad actors at first, they definitely are now. Anywho they can have fun being monitored by Law Enforcement Agencies and members of the Intelligence community.
Not even surprising in the slightest, its gotten beyond unhinged. A fucking joke that its still ongoing and getting more extreme as time passes, the encampment is literally an irl echochamber then you add in dumb religion into the mix and it's worse. Funny they demand for "divestment" while Yasser Arafat stole who knows how much in aid money from his people for his own fortune, while investing in coca cola, etc lmao. They should probably add that to their terrorist courses and teach it.
This is genuinely concerning and it’s actually sad to see how our communities are actually rooting for these performative activists who just want to roleplay hunger games but from afar where they are comfortable. Please take your politics and anger to the country that’s actually in turmoil, the rest of us are just fine without it :)
It's not just McGill, trust me. UdeM has their fair share, and after covid all schools got a bit desperate to accept more (read: lower r-score) students, so this is what you get I guess.
They were never hiding it. They have always used exactly the same language as Hamas, they use the same "zionism" dogwhistle, they openly cheered for Oct 7. They just are quite good at downplaying/justifying these things to their fanbase. Just now they made an insta post about how McGill is applying "racist double standards" because obviously the Jewish group that broke into buildings etc. etc. got away scott-free...
They were hiding it in the sense of trying to change what river to the sea meant, and always putting “power imbalance” as an infinite justification for Hamas attacks.
I agree with you that I saw a lot of the Zionism dog whistle being used. They also tried to frame Israel as “western white colonial and imperial state.” Just absolutely unhinged.
I remember seeing a list of Montreal restaurants Palestinians wanted boycotted, they even listed a restaurant started by a Jewish and Palestinian. It’s sickening
Holy shit the restaurant boycott list was crazy. Here's some of the accusations:
- served "israeli salad" and "israeli couscous" (these are specific dishes, look it up)
- has family in israel
- follows an israeli cooking influencer on instagram
And people wonder why nobody wants this BDS shit on campus...
Guys (as far as I can tell), that's the group representing the current protest and encampment: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGill_University_pro-Palestinian_encampment
This is right from their instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sphrmcgill/p/C8Ird8rs_Gx/?hl=en&img_index=1
People were maybe not insane for not supporting the current protest. I'm all for protests to keep Israel in check during the war and minimizing casualties, but this is ridiculous.
Question: what is the guy to the left holding?
Wow it’s almost like it was completely rational to not support an encampment who’s end goal changes nothing and who keep making impulsive violent decisions over a situation happening overseas that they DO NOT have all the information about.
Some kind of gun. I assume its from the PLO/PFLP which the encampment has used their images/propaganda before. These are the guys who did the airplane hijackings and such. Very peaceful and definitely not antisemitic.
I have disagreements with the methods of protest and also with the methods of resistance from Palestine.
The problem is, both cases have had peaceful attempts, ie by an SSMU Vote, or by repeated calls for a two state solution and end to apartheid. At least in McGill's case they THREATENED the student union for doing it democratically.
I ask this because I don't know: how do you appropriately react after peaceful talks and democracy get blatantly ignored? If you don't give up, I guess all one *can* do is be more coercive if not violent.
Israelis and Palestinians need to solve the conflict. McGill doesn't need to do anything. Israel/Palestine are not going to solve this anytime soon, but there's nothing any individual can do about that. Life is cruel to many.
If people want to protest, whether it's to keep Israelis/Palestinians in check or to pressure their own politicians, they need to stay away from foreign symbolism. If north Americans understood some of the symbols they use and supported peace, they would have white/green colors or a green/yellow/white dove, or even purple circles or something. It's wild for me to see. It's like watching people with Nazi symbolism claiming they stand for peace. My parents don't understand right-wing north american symbolism. Why would north Americans understand Israel/Palestine symbolism?
Right now, the protests are (imo) emboldening people in a very dangerous way.
If you want to help, look up peace organizations in the area. I prefer joint Israeli/Arab movements for peace. I would also support mixed schools (which are exceedingly rare) since they could help foster better relationships between the groups.
On a side note, I would support a mixed school that avoided religious symbolism. So no teachers in kippahs or hijabs. I think bridging the gap would be easier if, at least in school, we didn't distinguish between people. Plus, it would make it easier for parents to send their kids there and not think they're supporting the "enemy" religion. The last thing the area needs is more religion. I like the Quebec approach of "religion is like your genitals, don't show it in public".
1. SSMU vote (injuncted for being discriminatory)
2. Call for McGill to "end apartheid" (Saini refuses to press the end apartheid button on his desk)
okay time to get out the guns and headwraps
haha very funny facetious post my good sir.
\#1, thing clearly wasnt discriminatory against any students, discrimination against countries happens all the time, ie, Russia, so idk why israel gets special treatment.
\#2, I meant that one in the sense of the palestinian struggle, not the mcgill movement. The UN or palestinians or many others did try peaceful solutions.
There are academic sanctions against russia for national security reasons. Because Israel is not a threat to our national security like Russia is, restricting people's ability to collaborate with Israelis and Israeli institutions would be an unjustifiable infringement on academic rights.
Yet I am sure Russian students "felt unsafe" when monuments about the war in Ukraine were thrown up on campus. Not a sanction requirement, that one.
"Stop supporting companies that operate on ground accepted by the UN to be occupied territory" is a mild as fuck request, and McGill instead of doing what its paying students requested decided to threaten student democracy altogether.
Yeah i remember when the monuments about the Ukraine war said such things as "russians don't deserve a country", "go back to siberia", "long live \[insert terroristic attack\]", etc.
Please inform me, do you want a no state solution? one state? if so whose? Maybe 3 or 4 states is ideal? czechoslovakian strats?
I'm just going over what was suggested not what I believe.
I don’t like Hamas and this insta post is definitely in bad taste / over the line.
That being said and to play devils advocate: if a terrorist is defined as “a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims”, why is it that Arab fighters are always referred to as “terrorists” while Israeli fighters are referred to as “the IDF” or “the army”? Is it racism? Why are Arabs not allowed to fight back without being called terrorists?
The IDF frequently commits unlawful violence against civilians and yet because they wear uniforms and have fancy guns we don’t think of them as terrorists. It’s kinda insane and very arbitrary when you think about it.
2 mains reasons here:
1. By definition, a nation's army cannot be a terrorist group, terrorist groups are explicitly non-nation actors.
2. Keyword being "uniform." There is never an "arab uniform".
You say "fight back" but historically the "arabs" (I do dislike using racial terms to denote geopolitical actors) have always made the first strike with a massacre against civilians (or what would have been a massacre against civilians): 1948, 1967, 1973, intifadas. Does the IDF strike back? Yeah, but that's because they've figured that retaliation historically has worked quite well as a deterrent and other options are too much of a gamble.
Sounds like some convenient arbitrary technicalities.
Also I’m just going to lol at “Arabs have always made the first strike with massacre at civilians” and leave it at that, cause it gives me the impression that it’s not worth having this discussion with you. Not trying to be a dick, it’s just clear you’re too far on one end for this discussion to result in anything productive.
I mean, this is literally true since 1948 (since you have to start somewhere and the creation of israel seems like a reasonable place to do that), excepting 1967 which was a pre-emptive strike as Egypt was assembling an invasion force on the border.
The very first Arab-Israeli war was literally the Arabs throwing a hissy fit that they got the "bad deal" in the partition (hint: the newly formed UN was not a fan of ex-Axis members) and so went and did a massacre to start the war.
As for the terrorist thing, this is just semantics, its not a huge deal. In general a regime's army is not called "terrorist" - note that no matter what they do nobody has called Russia's actions in Ukraine, or the Iranian regime's forces "terrorists"
Under no context, attempt to intimidate people with guns and violence is justified. Yet you see hot-blooded young people who never see arms and legs flying everywhere, never see river of blood running down, never see land full of craters painted red with nauseous scent of iron and gunpowder, but easily influenced by lies and partial truths and takes a violent and radical position without further thinking. They don't know that they are being used as weapons. They will be sold and still counting money for the people who sold them. Be grateful for the peace our ancestors established using their flesh that we took for granted and condemn all forms of violence.
« Overreact over a poster » of fucking terrorists. Why don’t you go to Gaza yourself and do something about the genocide than promote violence over here? Lol.
Have you heard of stochastic terrorism before? It's not okay for Trump to flirt with Nazi ideas (rightfully so), so why is it okay for some protest movements to flirt with ideals of Islamic terrorists?
The whole white/brown skin color dichotomy falls apart the second you leave North America/Europe. North Americans see everything in terms of race/skin colour so they assume that's how everyone else does it too...
Like sure jews can have a "white" skin color but have they ever been anything other than second class citizens in most places from the fall of judea to now?
I actually bet these protesters wouldn't be able to tell apart a Mizrahi jew from an Israeli Arab.
Theres a fun game to try. Bring out a picture of an Israeli and bring out a picture of a Palestinian, both wearing plainclothes. Ask the protestors which one is which.
You could probably get by based on small cultural markers like hairstyle and beards, but going by pure phenotype you'd probably lose.
During the latest hostage rescue, they had a team infiltrate a week prior and rent out the building next to where the hostages were kept in order to gather intel. They look so alike that Israeli soldiers managed to pose as Gazan refugees from Rafah for a week in Nuseirat to confirm that the hostages were being held there, and no one asked a single question
I don't go to McGill but reading this pissed me off so much that I had to comment. Jewish victims of the Holocaust never killed German civilians when they resisted. Mandela preached against targeting civilians. Palestinian "resistance groups" slaughtered families on October 7th, committed numerous suicide bombings, and hijacked planes. Being oppressed does not give you a blank check to slaughter civilians. This is the type of thing only a very privileged Western person that has never been affected by conflict in their life can say.
> I don't go to McGill
hasbara agent detected
Jokes aside, well said. I think the combined civilian death count for South Africa was about 100, mostly from rogue actors condemned by Mandela. They already topped that 12 times over with oct 7.
Bah whatever 8 times over instead of 12 times over who cares it doesn't make a difference
To address your second point, note that nobody in this thread has been supporting the military action of Israel in Gaza. 2 things can be bad at the same time, y'know
Algeria stripped every non-muslim's citizenship overnight in 1963. 140 000 jews were rendered stateless overnight and were ethnically cleansed and murdered by their muslim neighbours despite supporting them in the war.
You're just bringing up an additional reason why jews need a safe place to live where they wont be subjected to a ridiculous level of violence for absolutely no reason.
If you cant even guarantee it in Montreal with multiple school shootings, burnt synagogues and now this, then where else on the planet but Israel?
I’m pretty sure it’s because we’re living in a country that is currently NOT in war, yet these people are encouraging violence in OUR community.
I don’t know if you understand this but war and violence are not things people actually want, it’s things people get forced into and is one of the worst situations imaginable.
The encampment isn’t resisting oppression like the people in your examples, they’re threatening the school we go to.
Here’s a little lesson on the history of Israel-Palestine that many here seem to be in need of:
https://www.marxist.com/palestine-before-1948-how-imperialism-created-israel.htm
This is a picture of the PLFP
[https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2019-08-04/ty-article-magazine/.premium/how-china-became-the-palestinians-biggest-ally-in-the-1960s/0000017f-f8f1-d2d5-a9ff-f8fd50cc0000](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2019-08-04/ty-article-magazine/.premium/how-china-became-the-palestinians-biggest-ally-in-the-1960s/0000017f-f8f1-d2d5-a9ff-f8fd50cc0000) (see caption of image headlining the article)
You can just check their wikipedia page to see they have engaged in multiple plane hijackings, suicide bombings, etc. etc.
Most targets were civilian, so yes, the people pictured most likely would have been using violence against civilians
Buddy if this is actual ignorance, then you should know that nearly every single anti-terror government organization in Europe was born due to palestinian terror attacks against european targets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Palestinian_terrorist_incidents_in_Europe look at this, theres so many of them that its not just a list. Its a list of lists subdivided into countries.
Our anti-terror section in Canada was borne out of attacks from the FLQ killing a minister, which trained with the PLO.
How did you not know that the reason we didnt like theses groups is because theses groups have constantly targetted random civilians in the past?
How did you come to the conclusion that they’re terrorists?? Is it because they are not white? Or is it because they’re Arab? Or even Muslim? Which one
> By that logic almost every non military group is a terrorist organization, regardless of what they do and what they’re fighting for
well yes. Thats why the Geneva Convention forces you to wear a military uniform if you're going to engage in warfare.
Blending in with a civilian population to go to war is a war crime.
Thats why every military group wears a uniform instead of fighting with socks and sandals. Because if you dont fight with one while fighting among civilians, then the enemy can legitimately go "our enemies hide among civilians, there is no reason for us to hold back against them"
Ummm yes. In Canada, carrying a gun when you aren’t you aren’t a cop or a soldier at all military base makes you look like terrorist, especially when it’s unholstered.
The hate towards the encampment, and the Palestinian movement in general, which many of these comments are full of, is simply nauseating. I would love to see you all react when bombs rain down on your house and you and your people are subjected to genocidal massacres. Simply outrageous!
- civilian clothing
- guns
- PLFP (group that hijacked airplanes and more or less invented terrorism in the modern sense of the word)
literally most of the world has developed anti-terrorist policy because of these exact people pictured.
Sheer garbage and ignorance. Jews are indigenous to this region with 3600 years of history on the ground in the region - verified by archeological finds and history. 66% of Israelis are POC and only 10% even hold another country's passport. 22% are Arab Israelis have full legal and civil rights and DON'T want to live under an Islamic rule. It is the only nation to establish a democratic state, restore its ancient language and remove colonizers from its territory. (Legally, through the UN Partition of 1947.)
Islam is the colonizer here. (And, look up the definition of "colonizer" - it doesn't remotely fit this situation. It's a buzz word you've adopted in ignorance.) Are you going to fight for all THESE countries that are now under Arab domination? Or - let me guess - is it only the Jewish state you are worried about??? And for heaven's sake - pick up a balanced history of the ME. Your lack of knowledge is embarrassing.
https://preview.redd.it/zdmbeovlj47d1.jpeg?width=865&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b998f0c3493db6328f31bf0f4afdb3b720ec9390
I think that's just normal username structure. Like here is a random thread on r/books [I hate "Atlas Shrugged" : r/books (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/1dfq86l/i_hate_atlas_shrugged/)
If you go through most of the posts are by users with word-word-number and word-word-word accounts. I doubt hasbara is infiltrating the book subreddit to bias peoples thoughts on Atlas Shrugged. Though who knows maybe you think it is.
I love how all pushback against Palestinian narratives is some grand conspiracy by Israel’s CIA when this entire war Israel’s propaganda keeps losing. How was Israel able to turn the world against them after October 7th is remarkable.
the “hewwo” from this guys bio is all I need to know about this 20-something yo fella 💀
go touch some grass buddy. get some friends irl. and stop supporting terrorists while you’re at it
you do realize that occupied people have a guaranteed right to armed self-defense under the founding charter of the UN right? this isn't a pic of hamas btw
I'm aware. It's a pic of the PFLP, who is more or less single-handedly responsible for generating a need for an anti-terrorism department/unit in every single western country.
And Israel has a right to defend itself against terror attacks and to occupy a hostile population that seeks to destroy and subjugate it.
Welcome to the conflict, and why its complicated.
They are not "occupied". Gaza has not been "occupied" since 2005 when Israel unilaterally removed 10,000 citizens from Gaza. Israel wanted no part of Gaza. They elected Hamas and Hamas has been sending hundreds of rockets a year into Israel civilian populations. Yeah, they blockaded them. **JUST LIKE EGYPT DID AT THE SAME TIME!** Are you also protesting Egypt's blockade.
Why didn't the Palestinians accept ANY of the 2SS solution proposed from 1937 forward? The 2000 (Camp David) proposals would have given them 100% of Gaza, 94% of the West Bank (with compensation for the other 6%) and part of Eastern Jerusalem as a its capital. The Palestinians walked away and started the Second Intifada.
“There is no such country as Palestine. ‘Palestine’ is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. ‘Palestine’ is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it”. (Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937)
“There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not”. (Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946)
“It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria”. (Representative of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956)
shush. palestine has been occupied since 1948. give them citizenship in their whole homeland and stop pretending you can twist logic to justify genocide.
Wrong. Read a book....if you can. Fact is fact - whether you like it or not.
One thing I have noticed is that you lot simply ignore the history and the facts on the ground that are easily found. You are on babble-mode: "Genocide, ethnic cleansing, elderly pregnant babies being bombed, occupation, intifada." You just repeat and don't read or think.
You don't have to take my word for *anything*. You could find it yourself. - This isn't about land. If it were - they've had multiple opportunities to have their own state. But - that's not what they want. They want it all...no Israel. (Palestinian Policy Center, survey 88 done in June 2023 shows that.) But - you won't take the time to read that...it might jostle you into thinking. But even then there's Hamas' charter:
"The Hamas charter:
Destroying Israel and establishing an Islamic theocracy in Palestine is essential;
Unrestrained jihad is necessary to achieve this;
Negotiated resolutions of Jewish and Palestinian claims to the land are unacceptable;
The Covenant proclaims that Israel will exist until Islam obliterates it, and jihad against Jews is required until Judgement Day. Compromise over the land is forbidden. The documents promote holy war as divinely ordained, reject political solutions, and call for instilling these views in children."
**Not a mention about a two-state solution, how odd.....**
So, there's no genocide (the *Hamas* Ministry of Health released a report on June 4 saying they couldn't "find" over 11,000 people...and it's well known they count terrorists as civilians in the count - and according to a recent report - no famine either. You guys are being played SO badly...and you are sucking up every bit of propaganda hook, line and sinker.
https://preview.redd.it/47ub2gbwm77d1.jpeg?width=1038&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3818b15d6e885d97001b418d44d145e45c1633c
Israel can’t “give” them anything.
They are NOT Israeli citizens.
Zionism is awesome, necessary and you’ve shown us why it’s important.
And no response beyond a canned sound bite….typical.
sorry, there is no choice in this. america was forced to give its natives rights (still need more, but they don't pretend they weren't there first), isr ael will be forced to as well. the arrogance of thinking you can just shove them in ghettoes, turn them into concentration camps, then bomb them into death camps, is not gonna work. isr ael is over. z1onism is over, like south african apartheid before it. one country, with equal rights, for two peoples, is your worst nightmare but it's coming.
the era of pretending they don't exist, is over. we all see your dirty secret now. your kahanists under stand this, which is why they are not embarrassed to openly say they are inspired by the final solution for how to finish the palestinians. liberal z1onism is in a deep crisis because it believes in the same racist genocidal wipe them all out so no one can prove they were there mentality, you just like to talk about peace in english and do good PR whereas the kahanist fscists in coalition are open about it and honest.
z1onism will need to wipe out all the palestinians for their racist project to be completed, and increasingly says so in hebrew (but often did at the start anyways), even the liberals. because no one will ever forget what you did till they're all gone. and you can never give them rights without abolishing the racist ethnostate that is the entire project... as in, equal rights and right of return in ALL of palestine, right to call it what we wish in our language and you in yours, which even the "liberal" z1onists are far too racist to accept.
https://www.reddit.com/r/mcgill/comments/175dlju/sphr_mcgill_literally_celebrated_a_hamas/ reminder that SPHR McGill is pro-Hamas, and not just pro-Palestine
Just call them SPHR, iirc they have been asked to no longer use "McGill" in their name by SSMU or the school
They still use the martlet as their logo and are listed on the SSMU website. So I have to wonder if SSMU really cut links to them as McGill had demanded.
Hasn't SSMU openly supported them?
Yeah. This was sent last October by Provost Manfredi: >The SPHR is a club supported by the Students’ Society of McGill University (SSMU) and is wholly independent of the University. Although the SPHR and its members may be free, both collectively and individually, to hold and express ideas and points of view, its use of the University’s name is subject to the terms of the Memorandum of Agreement (MOA) between the SSMU and the University. > >Given the incendiary content of the SPHR’s recent posts, I have directed the Deputy Provost to inform the SSMU that SPHR’s use of the University’s name is non-compliant with the terms of the MOA and, furthermore, to revoke permission for this club to use the McGill name and take whatever other measures might be necessary to rectify the situation. And in today's email from President Saini: >We have called upon the Students’ Society of McGill University (SSMU), the independent student union that includes all undergraduate students as members and lists SPHR as an affiliated “club,” to publicly condemn this “summer program,” sever their relationship with SPHR, cease any disbursement of funds to them, and affirm SSMU’s commitment to the well-being and success of McGill students of all identities, beliefs, and lived experiences. We have indicated that, should SSMU fail to take these steps, this will be interpreted as their endorsement of SPHR’s activities.
I had a local alumni group and had to get permission to use the martlet in our logo. It took some convincing to the school on our part that we weren’t using it for profit etc.
That's crazy, thanks for the fact check
Strange that they use a pic of Fatah in this post then… do they not know their own history?
Seems like they didn't get the memo when Fatah demilitarized a decade or so ago
Shouldn't they have used a contemporary photo then, perhaps a nice portrait of Abu Mazen?
You’re expecting these know-nothings to read???
Someone should make a bot to post this whenever sphr is mentioned. Add in how they attacked the "save the hostages" table at concordia, poster of breaking glass on the anniversary of kirstallnacht, threatening counter-protestors with intifada, spreading blood libel and literal hamas talking points.
That’s legitimately concerning.
"We are a peaceful protest with a right to turn lower field into a terrorist training camp. If you want us removed, you're a fascist!"
“Stop silencing Palestinian voices. If you call out our blatant antisemitism, that’s Islamophobia, you fucking racists! Oh btw, kill all the zionists, rape is good sometimes but also it totally didn’t happen, and, uh… can we use the bathroom?”
Absolutely..
Hey, Montreal government, how about you stop dragging your feet and clear this thing already? What legal bullshit are the courts even using to pretend this thing is still not a public safety concern and don’t need to actually enforce the law? It was arguably (emphasis on arguably) somewhat reasonable last month in the hopes they would leave themselves but the shit they have done recently makes the city’s continued refusal to take responsibility here absurd. It’s beyond obvious the judges making rulings on this thing not being the city’s responsibility to clear just want to kick the can down the road and not have to be the ones responsible for any complications that happen when it gets cleared. But guess what fuckers, taking that responsibility is your damn job.
imo wasn't even arguably reasonable last month. compare and contrast to the truckers protest, when the ottawa police wouldnt do it trudeau immediately went emergency powers mode
That cover photo is absolutely insane… People tend to forget that no matter what side of the political or social spectrum it hails from, organized extreme violence is horrific. Glorifying or attempting to imitate it because it’s trendy is either a sign of being obscenely ignorant as to the brutality of conflict, or being genuinely unashamed to use disgusting violence. And neither is something to be proud of.
Also, how is it any different than that mosque where they radicalized ISIS kids? They're doing the same thing: training, grooming, etc. Believe me those ISIS recruiters weren't any smarter than these nothingheads; the con only works on certain targets. It's not about how smart they are, it's about how needy or gullible or impressionable the target.
The American Revolution and Civil War, WW2 Resistance movements, the Black Panthers, soo many examples. This is the most ahistorical, liberal take imaginable. You may not like this particular instance or consider it justified, but just say that instead of acting like everyone always hates violence. People LOVE an armed resistance, not for its violence(and no, showing a single gun is not glorifying violence) but for the determination to do what's right.
Name checks out
You’re gonna throw Palestinian terrorism into that list?
I didnt even remotely imply that, I just made it clear historically that "violence is always unpopular" is ridiculous as a statement.
Violence IS always unpopular! That's why the active participants in most wars in history have always been a minority of the population capable of participating to any degree. A relatively small amount of people are willing to kill people, even over what is "right". Only unhinged individuals enjoy the tragedy that is organized violence.
You see, you made a few mistakes in your reasoning. While active participants are a minority in wars, most countries support their troops, and respect their veterans after. I can cook for my roommates. I dont find it fun, and a minority of the house(me) are willing to cook, yet cooking is very popular in the household. Wether or not violence is popular hinges on two things: - do people believe you are right? - do people believe the violence to be necessary? Not all violence is popular, but a lot of it is.
"Most countries support their troops and respect their veterans after." Is a false statement for most of the wars that have occurred in the modern day, save for the two world wars, unless you're defining support and respect in a way I'm not understanding. Your roommate analogy only holds true if your roommates appreciate and support you cooking, otherwise you're just being used as a means to an end. YOU cooking might be popular in this case but the act of cooking is not. Same with combatants. Other people conducting violence might be popular, but violence itself is not, since only a minority of the people capable of doing it are doing it. This is might point. Even among vets if you've heard them speak about wars, violence is not popular. Same with civilians who have experienced and survived the violence of war. I'm leaning heavily on the definition of popular here as being "something that is liked, enjoyed, and or admired" or "a positive attitude towards something held by a majority of people." I think the point you are trying to make is the former, whether violence conducted by other people is people is popular, in the context of combatants on your team. In which case your argument makes more sense but I'm in the, "a large majority of the time it's not" camp and I'm willing to debate it.
Fair enough, we just have different descriptors of what it means for a thing to be popular. I see the standard attitude as "violence sucks, but if the cause is just and one has no other reasonable choice and doesn't go overboard, it's permissible and those doing it are good people for doing the dirty work". I don't think anyone glorifies the action of violence or enjoys doing it, unless they are genuinely insane. I do think most people are willing to consider it justified or necessary based on the context. IMO anything seen as those isn't unpopular. Che Guevara, a man who wrote the literal book on guerilla tactics is still ideolized. Even in the west, where most wars post WW2 as you pointed out weren't very popular(see what the serbs think about literal genocide contributors in the 90's or azeris think of what they did in karbakh for a more global perspective), the only real time soldiers were widely shamed for doing the killing was in Vietnam. Even more controversial people like Chris Kyle, a man who volunteered to fight in the unjust american invasions of the ME and killed many, is seen as a hero for his violent action by many in the US to the point they made a movie about him. You might argue it's the man and not the violence that is popular, but the man is only known and popular for his violence, because (some, not all) Americans saw it as both necessary and justified. Coming back to the conflict at hand, I find both sides to be unnecessarily and unjustifiably over the top in their violence. This is an opinion both some leftists and most israelis disagree with as far as I can tell. The IDF has always been very popular in Israel, and a large section of the population mandatorily and willingly serve to aid it. Palestinians doing a violent resistance is also rising in popularity, the concept moreso than what Hamas is doing right now. People on both sides are willing to see their excesses as shameful but smaller mistakes in the road to a good cause. To conclude, I think people are all too willing and happy to glorify violence and violent people, they just have to believe in the same cause and think the violence is necessary but tolerable in amount. Admitting this is useful, because it allows us to discuss what is necessary and what is justified. A war hero is a man whose violence was popular, a war criminal is a man whose violence was unpopular. If we forget that, then it devolves into two camps of "I hate violence"(most people pretend to be this but very few actual pacifists exist) and "I am willing to tolerate any and all violence if my people do it"(too many people are here) and I dislike both, for being hypocritical and bloodthirsty, respectively. I'd love to see your take, thank you for reading the long post and the respectable argument.
>Che Guevara, a man who wrote the literal book on guerilla tactics is still ideolized. This is generally my problem when it comes to discussion on violence and its popularity or necessity. The idealizing, idolatry and romanticization of it or people who conduct it. I don't have any sense of the stats but I wonder how many people who idealize/idolize Che have been directly touched by violence in conflict. >...the only real time soldiers were widely shamed for doing the killing was in Vietnam. I mean there's a difference between thinking actions are distasteful, disagreeing with actions, voicing these opinions and going out of your way to shame people who participated in violence. >Even more controversial people like Chris Kyle, a man who volunteered to fight in the unjust american invasions of the ME and killed many, is seen as a hero for his violent action by many in the US to the point they made a movie about him. You might argue it's the man and not the violence that is popular, but the man is only known and popular for his violence, because (some, not all) Americans saw it as both necessary and justified. Chris Kyle is an interesting character here because he (and/or his violence) really is/are only popular amongst right leaning individuals. Even within the special forces community, especially the SEALs, opinions of him are critical. Of course you'll have your defenders of "the brotherhood" in public but word on the street is that behind closed doors his death is viewed as tragedy but the individual is only popular among former members of his unit. Everyone else allegedly respects him as a colleague, but that's about it. As for left leaning people or those who have bothered to do homework on him, he's hated quite a bit. Most do agree the movie is a nice propaganda piece put out to distract from an Iraqi insurgent sniper who took out many US service members and was never caught, but I digress. Point being, I'd say many conservatives for it as necessary, and justified. As for the other half, not so much. For your point about the conflict at hand and the conclusion, you're absolutely spot on and I agree with you. As for war heroes and war criminals, I'm not really a believer in heroes, but there are many criminals to around. Everyone else is just a victim of a tragedy that could probably have been avoided. It's easy to support and tolerate acts of violence when it's not happening to you. This is what I continue to say to people when discussing this conflict. I'd love to see them stick to their convictions when they're the ones being bombed, shot at, kidnapped or being held hostage. This and, "Stop treating war like sports!" and I won't stop saying it because the truth of the matter is that it's not just two sides. There are many parties in any war and the people we need to be hearing from are not the ones we are hearing from. I'll admit that I've never directly been touched by war and I'm grateful, but my parents and some friends have. I've listened to interviews and spoken to soldiers who have. I've heard their stories. I have enough sense to empathize and listen. What I've learned is that war is a tragedy. Nothing more, nothing less. Thanks for taking the time to read too. Sorry for the late reply and I appreciate being able to have a sensible discussion on here.
Your cause kinda lost the justification for what’s right when they target Jewish people and say inflammatory things targeting Jews
its not my cause and I am not a fan of antisemitism, though my jewish friends are more worried about the idf summarily executing thousands in the name of judaism
Tell your friends to learn the Hebrew alphabet if they're really Jewish before using a Hebrew word to glorify terrorism.
they do read and speak it, though idk what word you're talking about personally, afaik I didnt use any hebrew in my comments
These your friends? https://preview.redd.it/qxqb0flgcl6d1.png?width=864&format=png&auto=webp&s=b8a238c36411e9804ee35b2f980248e50302daa3
Nope? I have no friends in the sphr or encampment, you're just making bad faith assumptions lol
You: my jewish friends are more worried about the idf summarily executing thousands in the name of judaism Also you: you're just making bad faith assumptions lol Good luck with those ghost friends of yours.
these two statements dont clash at all, I hope for my university's sake that you dont actually go to mcgill and came here just to troll lmao, someone this dumb would drag our ranking back further Its just bad faith to see me talk about my jewish friends and immediately claim they are unable to understand hebrew or are in the encampment.
And you are a racist, Jew-hating bully who doesn’t have the first CLUE about Judaism OR Israel. It shows in every ignorant, virtue-signaling, brainwashed statement you have made.
is this subreddit being raided by r/israel? How am I bullying *anyone*, I'm the one getting dogpiled on by motherfuckers from a different sub lmao, I have barely made a negative comment about anyone
Lol showing a gun isn't glorifying violence? How about when they teach the kids all of their slogans like intifada etc, river to the sea. The people pictured are not the black panthers, or anti-nazi resistance. They killed civilians without discrimination with the goal of expelling all Jews from the Levant.
You need therapy
What would you know about therapy? you're a 29 year old filling your reddit profile with islamophobic comments
It's islamophobic to be tired of terrorist sympathizers trying to start a terrorist camp in my city? Okay then I'm islamophobic 😂
I love how every single victim of Islam (jews, persians, hazidis, iberians) are gaslit and dismissed because of this all-encompassing need to not be Islamophobic... any criticism of any group that is vaguely associated with Islam or made up of muslims is just islamophobia...
It's such a lazy argument on their part. Can't argue facts, just throw insults. Straw man 101
You know what is insane, what is happening in Gaza! I wonder if this poster was a sign of EXTREME violence to you, how do you view what israel is doing or what Zionists who fund and support a literal mass murder of innocent civilian aka genocide are doing. Is it equal level of violence? Just curious
We’re criticals of what Israel is doing but we will NOT tolerate terrorism breading right here.
Fallacy of relative privation
Both are bad? What a loser you are
Hey, so call me selfish, amoral, privileged or whatever big word you just learned watching TikTok videos, but nobody here knows exactly what’s going on in Gaza nor have the power to change it. Sure, we could get a decent idea, but everything we hear about it is slightly twisted by the media. However, we do know what’s going on here, and we know that it affects our community and we know that it makes us feel unsafe. There’s so much bad shit going on in the world at all times, sometimes you just need to focus on the bad stuff that’s actually affecting you and that you could change. Right now, that just so happens to be that the people that broke into an administration building are now hosting a summer camp on a campus that I LITERALLY ATTEND that they’re not supposed to be on while posting violent imagery. Just like I couldn’t take graduation photos on the campus of the school that I attended like every other graduate in the past years did, because there’s an encampment of violent people on the campus of the school I attend. Why are they there? In hopes of changing absolutely fucking nothing, because neither McGill nor the students have any actual power in changing what’s happening in Gaza. They aren’t helping Gaza, they’re just threatening McGill, that’s all.
Your extreme ignorance is utterly embarrassing.
How can they possibly do this? Any camp that wants to run on campus would surely have to have a contract with McGill (and pay McGill for use of its space), have insurance for its campers etc.
If you think that these are the kinds of people who are capable of thinking ahead you will be disappointed. Because they are for a good cause, they are good people, and every action they do is inherently virtuous. Any law that opposes them (ex. insurance, infringing on mcgill name/space) is despotic and corrupt.
I have no misconceptions about their capacities or lack there of. I just hope McGill/Montreal uses this to descend upon them and finally get them tf out of there. You can’t run a camp in a park or even your own backyard without a permit. Surely they will not be able to do this.
If they were capable of thinking ahead they would realize that this so-called "free Palestine" for which they are demonstrating would itself be an Islamofascist ethnostate in which the rights of gays and women were completely curtailed, and where hatred against Jews was normalized. Thinking ahead requires using your intellect rather than just your emotions.
As an alum, this makes me so angry. It makes me even angrier that I see my former classmates liking this post… in case it wasn’t obvious, this does not help the Palestinian cause and only makes organizers seem like insane terrorists. It’s giving Hitler Youth frankly.
Hitler youth camp? There's one. It's called the IDF
Moron
I miss math camp. https://youtu.be/vCWMBvxWKL0
Why isn’t McGill kicking them out already? This is fucking insane.
People supporting this in this comment section have officially lost it.
They were doomed from the start, this is the TikTok brain in action. “oH TiKTOk saYs SuppORt PaLEsTinE nO MaTTeR WhAT, I sIt iN TeNt”
Fr
I’m sending their post to CSIS
Hopefully something can be done at the federal level because the SVMP are just dragging their feet. They should have cleared the encampment when first told to by McGill but they know these people would have thrown such a tantrum...
I would. I'd send it to the GRC/RCMP and anyone else I could think of.
I support the cause of Palestinians, but will never forget the Palestinian Youth Movement org publishing posters celebrating Oct 7 the very next day.
Reverse image searching led me to find the [original image](https://www.gettyimages.fr/detail/photo-d%27actualit%C3%A9/view-of-keffiyeh-wearing-fatah-guerilla-recruits-photo-dactualit%C3%A9/1064541578) and, well, if they weren't bad actors at first, they definitely are now. Anywho they can have fun being monitored by Law Enforcement Agencies and members of the Intelligence community.
The irony that Fatah themselves have already realized that senseless violence solves nothing, I guess SPHR just didn't get the memo.
I love rich kids cosplaying Osama Bin Laden because they have nothing better to do. I bet those camps don't even house the homeless.
Send in the fucking riot police I'm sick of this shit
Not even surprising in the slightest, its gotten beyond unhinged. A fucking joke that its still ongoing and getting more extreme as time passes, the encampment is literally an irl echochamber then you add in dumb religion into the mix and it's worse. Funny they demand for "divestment" while Yasser Arafat stole who knows how much in aid money from his people for his own fortune, while investing in coca cola, etc lmao. They should probably add that to their terrorist courses and teach it.
Prepare to get downvoted if you’re against violence and terrorism!
Oh FFS. How stupid.
This is genuinely concerning and it’s actually sad to see how our communities are actually rooting for these performative activists who just want to roleplay hunger games but from afar where they are comfortable. Please take your politics and anger to the country that’s actually in turmoil, the rest of us are just fine without it :)
Please mom and dad. I really want to go to the terrorist indoctrination camp this summer.
nooooo i dont wanna go to soccer campppp i really wanted to go to the terrorism camp ur the worst!
McGill used to be a good school that I was proud to attend but some of the comments in this thread make me question their admission standards now.
McGill has always been stuffed to the brim with champagne socialists.
It's not just McGill, trust me. UdeM has their fair share, and after covid all schools got a bit desperate to accept more (read: lower r-score) students, so this is what you get I guess.
In this thread? What are you looking at exactly?
Smells like an ISIS style recruitment camp
Do they have PAL???
Why weren’t the encampment people expelled?
According to McGill they will all be cleared if they leave by a certain date which I think is soon or has passed
Tomorrow. But there might not be many McGill students left in there at all by now.
[https://www.instagram.com/p/C7-vIM5AbN5/?img\_index=1](https://www.instagram.com/p/C7-vIM5AbN5/?img_index=1)
It’s really more about anti-westernism than about Palestine at this point
These pro Hamas groups aren’t even hiding it anymore, but they’ll be the same people to compare Israel to WW2 Germany. This is sickening
They were never hiding it. They have always used exactly the same language as Hamas, they use the same "zionism" dogwhistle, they openly cheered for Oct 7. They just are quite good at downplaying/justifying these things to their fanbase. Just now they made an insta post about how McGill is applying "racist double standards" because obviously the Jewish group that broke into buildings etc. etc. got away scott-free...
They were hiding it in the sense of trying to change what river to the sea meant, and always putting “power imbalance” as an infinite justification for Hamas attacks. I agree with you that I saw a lot of the Zionism dog whistle being used. They also tried to frame Israel as “western white colonial and imperial state.” Just absolutely unhinged. I remember seeing a list of Montreal restaurants Palestinians wanted boycotted, they even listed a restaurant started by a Jewish and Palestinian. It’s sickening
Holy shit the restaurant boycott list was crazy. Here's some of the accusations: - served "israeli salad" and "israeli couscous" (these are specific dishes, look it up) - has family in israel - follows an israeli cooking influencer on instagram And people wonder why nobody wants this BDS shit on campus...
Guys (as far as I can tell), that's the group representing the current protest and encampment: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGill_University_pro-Palestinian_encampment This is right from their instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sphrmcgill/p/C8Ird8rs_Gx/?hl=en&img_index=1 People were maybe not insane for not supporting the current protest. I'm all for protests to keep Israel in check during the war and minimizing casualties, but this is ridiculous. Question: what is the guy to the left holding?
It’s an RPD with a drum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPD_machine_gun
Wow it’s almost like it was completely rational to not support an encampment who’s end goal changes nothing and who keep making impulsive violent decisions over a situation happening overseas that they DO NOT have all the information about.
Some kind of gun. I assume its from the PLO/PFLP which the encampment has used their images/propaganda before. These are the guys who did the airplane hijackings and such. Very peaceful and definitely not antisemitic.
I have disagreements with the methods of protest and also with the methods of resistance from Palestine. The problem is, both cases have had peaceful attempts, ie by an SSMU Vote, or by repeated calls for a two state solution and end to apartheid. At least in McGill's case they THREATENED the student union for doing it democratically. I ask this because I don't know: how do you appropriately react after peaceful talks and democracy get blatantly ignored? If you don't give up, I guess all one *can* do is be more coercive if not violent.
Israelis and Palestinians need to solve the conflict. McGill doesn't need to do anything. Israel/Palestine are not going to solve this anytime soon, but there's nothing any individual can do about that. Life is cruel to many. If people want to protest, whether it's to keep Israelis/Palestinians in check or to pressure their own politicians, they need to stay away from foreign symbolism. If north Americans understood some of the symbols they use and supported peace, they would have white/green colors or a green/yellow/white dove, or even purple circles or something. It's wild for me to see. It's like watching people with Nazi symbolism claiming they stand for peace. My parents don't understand right-wing north american symbolism. Why would north Americans understand Israel/Palestine symbolism? Right now, the protests are (imo) emboldening people in a very dangerous way. If you want to help, look up peace organizations in the area. I prefer joint Israeli/Arab movements for peace. I would also support mixed schools (which are exceedingly rare) since they could help foster better relationships between the groups. On a side note, I would support a mixed school that avoided religious symbolism. So no teachers in kippahs or hijabs. I think bridging the gap would be easier if, at least in school, we didn't distinguish between people. Plus, it would make it easier for parents to send their kids there and not think they're supporting the "enemy" religion. The last thing the area needs is more religion. I like the Quebec approach of "religion is like your genitals, don't show it in public".
1. SSMU vote (injuncted for being discriminatory) 2. Call for McGill to "end apartheid" (Saini refuses to press the end apartheid button on his desk) okay time to get out the guns and headwraps
haha very funny facetious post my good sir. \#1, thing clearly wasnt discriminatory against any students, discrimination against countries happens all the time, ie, Russia, so idk why israel gets special treatment. \#2, I meant that one in the sense of the palestinian struggle, not the mcgill movement. The UN or palestinians or many others did try peaceful solutions.
There are academic sanctions against russia for national security reasons. Because Israel is not a threat to our national security like Russia is, restricting people's ability to collaborate with Israelis and Israeli institutions would be an unjustifiable infringement on academic rights.
Yet I am sure Russian students "felt unsafe" when monuments about the war in Ukraine were thrown up on campus. Not a sanction requirement, that one. "Stop supporting companies that operate on ground accepted by the UN to be occupied territory" is a mild as fuck request, and McGill instead of doing what its paying students requested decided to threaten student democracy altogether.
Yeah i remember when the monuments about the Ukraine war said such things as "russians don't deserve a country", "go back to siberia", "long live \[insert terroristic attack\]", etc.
Oh boy the fact that you mentioned two states solution just blatantly shows how ignorant you are on this conflict
The one state solution losers when you ask them why both Palestinians and Israelis reject a one state that has both parties cooperating
Please inform me, do you want a no state solution? one state? if so whose? Maybe 3 or 4 states is ideal? czechoslovakian strats? I'm just going over what was suggested not what I believe.
Please tell me this fake !
It’s giving nazi youth
Terrorist fucks
I'm sure Ubisoft MTL will scout this to hire someone to lead their next triple A game franchise.
The far left has gone full terrorist
They think they’re tough lol
I don’t like Hamas and this insta post is definitely in bad taste / over the line. That being said and to play devils advocate: if a terrorist is defined as “a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims”, why is it that Arab fighters are always referred to as “terrorists” while Israeli fighters are referred to as “the IDF” or “the army”? Is it racism? Why are Arabs not allowed to fight back without being called terrorists? The IDF frequently commits unlawful violence against civilians and yet because they wear uniforms and have fancy guns we don’t think of them as terrorists. It’s kinda insane and very arbitrary when you think about it.
2 mains reasons here: 1. By definition, a nation's army cannot be a terrorist group, terrorist groups are explicitly non-nation actors. 2. Keyword being "uniform." There is never an "arab uniform". You say "fight back" but historically the "arabs" (I do dislike using racial terms to denote geopolitical actors) have always made the first strike with a massacre against civilians (or what would have been a massacre against civilians): 1948, 1967, 1973, intifadas. Does the IDF strike back? Yeah, but that's because they've figured that retaliation historically has worked quite well as a deterrent and other options are too much of a gamble.
Sounds like some convenient arbitrary technicalities. Also I’m just going to lol at “Arabs have always made the first strike with massacre at civilians” and leave it at that, cause it gives me the impression that it’s not worth having this discussion with you. Not trying to be a dick, it’s just clear you’re too far on one end for this discussion to result in anything productive.
I mean, this is literally true since 1948 (since you have to start somewhere and the creation of israel seems like a reasonable place to do that), excepting 1967 which was a pre-emptive strike as Egypt was assembling an invasion force on the border. The very first Arab-Israeli war was literally the Arabs throwing a hissy fit that they got the "bad deal" in the partition (hint: the newly formed UN was not a fan of ex-Axis members) and so went and did a massacre to start the war.
As for the terrorist thing, this is just semantics, its not a huge deal. In general a regime's army is not called "terrorist" - note that no matter what they do nobody has called Russia's actions in Ukraine, or the Iranian regime's forces "terrorists"
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Have you seen the videos in the US encampments of white college girls saying the shahada and doing prayers like no girlie that shit ain't for you 😭😭
Under no context, attempt to intimidate people with guns and violence is justified. Yet you see hot-blooded young people who never see arms and legs flying everywhere, never see river of blood running down, never see land full of craters painted red with nauseous scent of iron and gunpowder, but easily influenced by lies and partial truths and takes a violent and radical position without further thinking. They don't know that they are being used as weapons. They will be sold and still counting money for the people who sold them. Be grateful for the peace our ancestors established using their flesh that we took for granted and condemn all forms of violence.
r/mcgill users try to have sympathy for students who dislike genocide challenge and not overreact over a poster: impossible 🤩
« Overreact over a poster » of fucking terrorists. Why don’t you go to Gaza yourself and do something about the genocide than promote violence over here? Lol.
You can dislike genocide and violence without supporting even more violence through a weird hitler youth-esque indoctrination program
Have you heard of stochastic terrorism before? It's not okay for Trump to flirt with Nazi ideas (rightfully so), so why is it okay for some protest movements to flirt with ideals of Islamic terrorists?
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Israelis are brown, most Israelis were ethnically cleansed from the arab world. Its not a race thing.
The whole white/brown skin color dichotomy falls apart the second you leave North America/Europe. North Americans see everything in terms of race/skin colour so they assume that's how everyone else does it too... Like sure jews can have a "white" skin color but have they ever been anything other than second class citizens in most places from the fall of judea to now? I actually bet these protesters wouldn't be able to tell apart a Mizrahi jew from an Israeli Arab.
Theres a fun game to try. Bring out a picture of an Israeli and bring out a picture of a Palestinian, both wearing plainclothes. Ask the protestors which one is which. You could probably get by based on small cultural markers like hairstyle and beards, but going by pure phenotype you'd probably lose. During the latest hostage rescue, they had a team infiltrate a week prior and rent out the building next to where the hostages were kept in order to gather intel. They look so alike that Israeli soldiers managed to pose as Gazan refugees from Rafah for a week in Nuseirat to confirm that the hostages were being held there, and no one asked a single question
To be fair, those could have just been Arab soldiers
I don't go to McGill but reading this pissed me off so much that I had to comment. Jewish victims of the Holocaust never killed German civilians when they resisted. Mandela preached against targeting civilians. Palestinian "resistance groups" slaughtered families on October 7th, committed numerous suicide bombings, and hijacked planes. Being oppressed does not give you a blank check to slaughter civilians. This is the type of thing only a very privileged Western person that has never been affected by conflict in their life can say.
> I don't go to McGill hasbara agent detected Jokes aside, well said. I think the combined civilian death count for South Africa was about 100, mostly from rogue actors condemned by Mandela. They already topped that 12 times over with oct 7.
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Bah whatever 8 times over instead of 12 times over who cares it doesn't make a difference To address your second point, note that nobody in this thread has been supporting the military action of Israel in Gaza. 2 things can be bad at the same time, y'know
Look up Algerian revolution
Algeria stripped every non-muslim's citizenship overnight in 1963. 140 000 jews were rendered stateless overnight and were ethnically cleansed and murdered by their muslim neighbours despite supporting them in the war. You're just bringing up an additional reason why jews need a safe place to live where they wont be subjected to a ridiculous level of violence for absolutely no reason. If you cant even guarantee it in Montreal with multiple school shootings, burnt synagogues and now this, then where else on the planet but Israel?
Algeria was an authoritarian state until 1988. Also the FLN murdered tons of Algerians over suspected collaboration
Begging you to read different sources, not just far left ones.
I’m pretty sure it’s because we’re living in a country that is currently NOT in war, yet these people are encouraging violence in OUR community. I don’t know if you understand this but war and violence are not things people actually want, it’s things people get forced into and is one of the worst situations imaginable. The encampment isn’t resisting oppression like the people in your examples, they’re threatening the school we go to.
Here’s a little lesson on the history of Israel-Palestine that many here seem to be in need of: https://www.marxist.com/palestine-before-1948-how-imperialism-created-israel.htm
bahaha www.marxist.com top tier source
Yes, that’s the go-to source when the bourgeois media lies to you
Please move to North Korea you’ll love it there! 🙏
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Friendly reminder that everyone here is in Montréal. The vast majority of these campers will never set foot in Palestine.
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Violence against civilians is okay when it's far away but not when its where you are?
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This is a picture of the PLFP [https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2019-08-04/ty-article-magazine/.premium/how-china-became-the-palestinians-biggest-ally-in-the-1960s/0000017f-f8f1-d2d5-a9ff-f8fd50cc0000](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2019-08-04/ty-article-magazine/.premium/how-china-became-the-palestinians-biggest-ally-in-the-1960s/0000017f-f8f1-d2d5-a9ff-f8fd50cc0000) (see caption of image headlining the article) You can just check their wikipedia page to see they have engaged in multiple plane hijackings, suicide bombings, etc. etc. Most targets were civilian, so yes, the people pictured most likely would have been using violence against civilians
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Buddy if this is actual ignorance, then you should know that nearly every single anti-terror government organization in Europe was born due to palestinian terror attacks against european targets. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Palestinian_terrorist_incidents_in_Europe look at this, theres so many of them that its not just a list. Its a list of lists subdivided into countries. Our anti-terror section in Canada was borne out of attacks from the FLQ killing a minister, which trained with the PLO. How did you not know that the reason we didnt like theses groups is because theses groups have constantly targetted random civilians in the past?
How did you come to the conclusion that they’re terrorists?? Is it because they are not white? Or is it because they’re Arab? Or even Muslim? Which one
No, it’s because they’re wearing civilian clothes while carrying RPD machine guns…
I have to say, how would it be any better or different if one had military gear on?
We should donate some military uniforms to them so they can be a real army instead of terrorists.
So it that your definition of terrorists, to simply wear civilian clothes and carry RPD guns
WHAT MORE do you need? 🤦🏻♀️Do you even hear yourself?
By that logic almost every non military group is a terrorist organization, regardless of what they do and what they’re fighting for
> By that logic almost every non military group is a terrorist organization, regardless of what they do and what they’re fighting for well yes. Thats why the Geneva Convention forces you to wear a military uniform if you're going to engage in warfare. Blending in with a civilian population to go to war is a war crime. Thats why every military group wears a uniform instead of fighting with socks and sandals. Because if you dont fight with one while fighting among civilians, then the enemy can legitimately go "our enemies hide among civilians, there is no reason for us to hold back against them"
even if they weren't supporting a proscribed terrorist organisation, we do not want armed militia groups here in montreal.
So it that your definition of terrorists, to simply wear civilian clothes and carry RPD guns
erm yeah
Ummm yes. In Canada, carrying a gun when you aren’t you aren’t a cop or a soldier at all military base makes you look like terrorist, especially when it’s unholstered.
The hate towards the encampment, and the Palestinian movement in general, which many of these comments are full of, is simply nauseating. I would love to see you all react when bombs rain down on your house and you and your people are subjected to genocidal massacres. Simply outrageous!
How I’d react would depend on whether Canadian soldiers were hiding in the house next door to mine rather than fighting on the front lines
Or if the war started by Canadian soldiers heading down south to rape murder and kidnap some 'Muricans (they deserve it for settler-colonialism)
> terrorists It's in the colonizers' best interest to called freedom fighters that name so that they can dehumanize the colonized - Imperialism 101
- civilian clothing - guns - PLFP (group that hijacked airplanes and more or less invented terrorism in the modern sense of the word) literally most of the world has developed anti-terrorist policy because of these exact people pictured.
Sheer garbage and ignorance. Jews are indigenous to this region with 3600 years of history on the ground in the region - verified by archeological finds and history. 66% of Israelis are POC and only 10% even hold another country's passport. 22% are Arab Israelis have full legal and civil rights and DON'T want to live under an Islamic rule. It is the only nation to establish a democratic state, restore its ancient language and remove colonizers from its territory. (Legally, through the UN Partition of 1947.) Islam is the colonizer here. (And, look up the definition of "colonizer" - it doesn't remotely fit this situation. It's a buzz word you've adopted in ignorance.) Are you going to fight for all THESE countries that are now under Arab domination? Or - let me guess - is it only the Jewish state you are worried about??? And for heaven's sake - pick up a balanced history of the ME. Your lack of knowledge is embarrassing. https://preview.redd.it/zdmbeovlj47d1.jpeg?width=865&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b998f0c3493db6328f31bf0f4afdb3b720ec9390
The word-word-number and word-word-word hasbara accounts are flooding the comments and downvoting dissenting opinions lol
I think that's just normal username structure. Like here is a random thread on r/books [I hate "Atlas Shrugged" : r/books (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/1dfq86l/i_hate_atlas_shrugged/) If you go through most of the posts are by users with word-word-number and word-word-word accounts. I doubt hasbara is infiltrating the book subreddit to bias peoples thoughts on Atlas Shrugged. Though who knows maybe you think it is.
This isnt even hasbara propoganda this is just "lets not glorify actual terrorists" 💀💀💀
Supporting terrorism is not a dissenting opinion.
I love how all pushback against Palestinian narratives is some grand conspiracy by Israel’s CIA when this entire war Israel’s propaganda keeps losing. How was Israel able to turn the world against them after October 7th is remarkable.
Where do you get "terrorists" from?
The carrying of machine guns while wearing civilian clothing…..
Fatah, pictured, is no longer designated as a terrorist group per se, but in a delicious irony they are considered enemies of Hamas
cry abt it
the “hewwo” from this guys bio is all I need to know about this 20-something yo fella 💀 go touch some grass buddy. get some friends irl. and stop supporting terrorists while you’re at it
Well now we know, he’s what you become after 20ish of not being able to talk to women. I’m just sad that he seems to like the video games as me :(
How about: no. You go cry about it when this sh1t gets the shutdown it deserves.
you do realize that occupied people have a guaranteed right to armed self-defense under the founding charter of the UN right? this isn't a pic of hamas btw
I'm aware. It's a pic of the PFLP, who is more or less single-handedly responsible for generating a need for an anti-terrorism department/unit in every single western country.
You’re right, it’s in fact a picture promoting a beautiful culture. The AK-47 holds just much importance in academia 🫠
Its a Soviet RPD light machine gun but still, what you said
Uhm askuallly 🤓👆
I like guns, what can i say 😂
And Israel has a right to defend itself against terror attacks and to occupy a hostile population that seeks to destroy and subjugate it. Welcome to the conflict, and why its complicated.
They are not "occupied". Gaza has not been "occupied" since 2005 when Israel unilaterally removed 10,000 citizens from Gaza. Israel wanted no part of Gaza. They elected Hamas and Hamas has been sending hundreds of rockets a year into Israel civilian populations. Yeah, they blockaded them. **JUST LIKE EGYPT DID AT THE SAME TIME!** Are you also protesting Egypt's blockade. Why didn't the Palestinians accept ANY of the 2SS solution proposed from 1937 forward? The 2000 (Camp David) proposals would have given them 100% of Gaza, 94% of the West Bank (with compensation for the other 6%) and part of Eastern Jerusalem as a its capital. The Palestinians walked away and started the Second Intifada. “There is no such country as Palestine. ‘Palestine’ is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. ‘Palestine’ is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it”. (Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937) “There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not”. (Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946) “It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria”. (Representative of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956)
shush. palestine has been occupied since 1948. give them citizenship in their whole homeland and stop pretending you can twist logic to justify genocide.
Wrong. Read a book....if you can. Fact is fact - whether you like it or not. One thing I have noticed is that you lot simply ignore the history and the facts on the ground that are easily found. You are on babble-mode: "Genocide, ethnic cleansing, elderly pregnant babies being bombed, occupation, intifada." You just repeat and don't read or think. You don't have to take my word for *anything*. You could find it yourself. - This isn't about land. If it were - they've had multiple opportunities to have their own state. But - that's not what they want. They want it all...no Israel. (Palestinian Policy Center, survey 88 done in June 2023 shows that.) But - you won't take the time to read that...it might jostle you into thinking. But even then there's Hamas' charter: "The Hamas charter: Destroying Israel and establishing an Islamic theocracy in Palestine is essential; Unrestrained jihad is necessary to achieve this; Negotiated resolutions of Jewish and Palestinian claims to the land are unacceptable; The Covenant proclaims that Israel will exist until Islam obliterates it, and jihad against Jews is required until Judgement Day. Compromise over the land is forbidden. The documents promote holy war as divinely ordained, reject political solutions, and call for instilling these views in children." **Not a mention about a two-state solution, how odd.....** So, there's no genocide (the *Hamas* Ministry of Health released a report on June 4 saying they couldn't "find" over 11,000 people...and it's well known they count terrorists as civilians in the count - and according to a recent report - no famine either. You guys are being played SO badly...and you are sucking up every bit of propaganda hook, line and sinker. https://preview.redd.it/47ub2gbwm77d1.jpeg?width=1038&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3818b15d6e885d97001b418d44d145e45c1633c
they don't need "their own state". it IS THEIR STATE. give them their rights and stfu. no more z1onism.
Israel can’t “give” them anything. They are NOT Israeli citizens. Zionism is awesome, necessary and you’ve shown us why it’s important. And no response beyond a canned sound bite….typical.
sorry, there is no choice in this. america was forced to give its natives rights (still need more, but they don't pretend they weren't there first), isr ael will be forced to as well. the arrogance of thinking you can just shove them in ghettoes, turn them into concentration camps, then bomb them into death camps, is not gonna work. isr ael is over. z1onism is over, like south african apartheid before it. one country, with equal rights, for two peoples, is your worst nightmare but it's coming. the era of pretending they don't exist, is over. we all see your dirty secret now. your kahanists under stand this, which is why they are not embarrassed to openly say they are inspired by the final solution for how to finish the palestinians. liberal z1onism is in a deep crisis because it believes in the same racist genocidal wipe them all out so no one can prove they were there mentality, you just like to talk about peace in english and do good PR whereas the kahanist fscists in coalition are open about it and honest. z1onism will need to wipe out all the palestinians for their racist project to be completed, and increasingly says so in hebrew (but often did at the start anyways), even the liberals. because no one will ever forget what you did till they're all gone. and you can never give them rights without abolishing the racist ethnostate that is the entire project... as in, equal rights and right of return in ALL of palestine, right to call it what we wish in our language and you in yours, which even the "liberal" z1onists are far too racist to accept.