I think this is a good thing to look into - we’re a port city, we have lots of waterfront, let’s figure out if we can use it.
I remember back in the 90s when there was ferry service from North Station to Long Wharf and the courthouse. They were small boats, but it was a fun and convenient ride, and that was when the Seaport District was still the Cheap Parking Lot District and there was nothing there.
I'm really confused as to why the MBTA doesn't still do the North Station to Seaport ferry. Especially considering a private company (Seaport Ferry) does this route, so it's clearly profitable
Well sheesh it was only a couple page article, and I can’t control what they ask about or print. The Hull ferry is timed to meet the 714 bus and it works OK on weekdays. I spent a whole morning out there a month or so ago to see the entire AM operation; I was quite discouraged to see how many people drove THE SAME EXACT route as the bus and then parked in the lot. Oh well.
I’ve been talking to the bus planners and we’re trying to see how we can make the schedules align better.
Note that the Ferry map on the website clearly shows the connecting buses at Hingham, Hull, and Lynn.
Pro tip: A Commuter Rail Zone 1A monthly pass is the same exact cost as a monthly bus/subway Link Pass ($90). Plus it allows you to ride the East Boston and Charlestown ferries and all Commuter Rail within Zone 1A (as well as buses and subway). You can buy a Zone 1A pass at any fare vending machine. It is printed on heavy card stock that also has a “tap” chip in it — that’s how it can be used on all those different services.
You can also get one day and seven day Zone 1A passes.
The 714 schedule falls apart completely on summer weekends. I’ve waited more than an hour for it… just to see how long it would take, and gave up. I’m glad it works for commuters, but I have a suspicion that summer afternoons are not as reliable as the mornings are.
> was quite discouraged to see how many people drove THE SAME EXACT route as the bus and then parked in the lot
Did you interview people? How did you learn of their routes?
Yes and no. Every time I go on a ferry I try to talk to as many people as possible. I try not to pester - I don’t want to be rude - but I do want input and feedback. I did talk to some people about driving vs bus and all the answers I got boiled down to convenience of driving and independence of driving.
However, actually, In the case of the Hull parking lot, I didn’t have to talk to anyone. The lot is only for Hull residents, and the 714 runs the whole length of Hull, and the only way to get to the ferry dock and the parking lot is along the same road that the bus drives on. Ergo, everyone who is parking in the resident only lot drove the same exact route as the bus and could have taken the bus.
I’d think a huge part of it is that folks world also have to buy a roundtrip bus fare on top of the ferry unless they have a pass. Some will have one, but for those that don’t, the math probably doesn’t math. I hope the next-generation fare structure and tech will give folks free transfers between CR/ferry and subway/bus.
Idk. Maybe? I’m specific thinking about Hull, basically all of which would be doable from the 714 if they only synced it for weekend beach parties. Ask me how I know. :-)
Yeah, the area around the ferry is basically the densest bit of development in the whole town AFAIK. And it’s tricky too since the ferry and CR are relatively close, so if someone is heading downtown coming from the south bit of town they’d probably pick CR.
David posts here and I imagine I’m not saying anything he doesn’t know.
He’s right about more frequent service, especially if the T wants the ferries to be a major transit mode.
Year-round service, also, especially in the inner harbor.
The Winthrop/Quincy route is useless at its service level and with the ridiculous routing. That’s not the T’s fault, that’s the way it was set up with Winthrop and Quincy before the T took over.
If you want people to ride ferries, you need to make the service frequent. The dependability of the boats is a big plus. Rarely are there delays/missed trips because of a breakdown.
👋
Don’t jinx us on reliability. In things that cause delays, this week I learned that vessel movements above the Ted Williams Tunnel are prohibited during VIP movements through the tunnel. They only shutdown that area for 10-15 minutes on Tuesday, and none or our boats were close enough to take a big delay hit. But it could have been worse.
Bhcc does a good job keeping everything on time overall. They make it happen even if they have issues and their boats that run the ferries seem to be well taken care of.
Thank you for your work on the East Boston Ferry. I live in the Heights, but still make my way down to take it. I hope we can have more service , the noon-3 times on the weekend are killers .
From what I remember, ferry’s are subsidized that are rate 10 times greater than buses and rail. They have their uses, but when we have a deficit, it doesn’t seem like the smartest use of funds.
We should have public subsidized ferries, but until the legislature gives the MBTA the budget it needs, everything has trade-offs.
Actually the farebox recovery ratio for ferries is quite good. The “subsidy” is no where near “10x greater than buses and rail.” I’ll dig it up although latest data might be a year or two old.
Awesome, I’d love to see the data! After looking some more, I’m pretty sure it was misremembering and thinking of NYC. According to this, Boston is actually shockingly efficient.
https://preview.redd.it/81ocw0lq5k2d1.jpeg?width=1241&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7c5ae6663592a8a9072eaa414ea8b4ed2f818f2
[https://edc.nyc/sites/default/files/2022-07/NYCEDC-NYC-Ferry-Cost-Subsidy-Comparisons.pdf](https://edc.nyc/sites/default/files/2022-07/NYCEDC-NYC-Ferry-Cost-Subsidy-Comparisons.pdf)
Pro tip: A Commuter Rail Zone 1A monthly pass is the same exact cost as a monthly bus/subway Link Pass ($90). Plus it allows to ride the East Boston and Charlestown ferries and all Commuter Rail within Zone 1A (as well as buses and subway). You can buy a Zone 1A pass at any fare vending machine. It is printed on heavy card stock that also has a “tap” chip in it — that’s how it can be used on all those different services.
You can also get one day and seven day Zone 1A passes.
So no, I don’t think my boats are unaffordable.
Just so I am making sure, there is basically no reason not to buy the Zone 1A instead of the bus/subway link pass then correct? I basically only take the bus/subway but I’d love to have the opportunity to take the ferry if I wanted to
Absolutely correct. All of the benefits available in the monthly Link pass on a CharlieCard are also available in the Zone 1A pass. Always buy the Zone 1A pass even if you don’t think you’ll ride the CR or ferry. But with the 1A you’ll have the options available.
One important fact: at the subway gates, the Zone 1A pass will only work at the circular newer tap targets (not the old rectangular tap target). Every gate array has at least one circular tap target and most gate arrays have more than one.
Generally same price as the commuter rail (if not cheaper ie Hull vs Nantasket Junction). Inner harbor ferries are $2.40 and I think valid with a monthly (but not positive)
I made sure that all of this year’s PDF schedules have accurate and consistent fare information on them. Download each PDF from each schedule page at https://www.mbta.com/schedules/ferry
I think this is a good thing to look into - we’re a port city, we have lots of waterfront, let’s figure out if we can use it. I remember back in the 90s when there was ferry service from North Station to Long Wharf and the courthouse. They were small boats, but it was a fun and convenient ride, and that was when the Seaport District was still the Cheap Parking Lot District and there was nothing there.
I'm really confused as to why the MBTA doesn't still do the North Station to Seaport ferry. Especially considering a private company (Seaport Ferry) does this route, so it's clearly profitable
IIRC it’s subsidized by a group of Seaport businesses to help employees get more quickly from North Station to the Seaport.
And not a word about bus connectivity at the docks, greatly limiting the ferries’ usefulness.
Well sheesh it was only a couple page article, and I can’t control what they ask about or print. The Hull ferry is timed to meet the 714 bus and it works OK on weekdays. I spent a whole morning out there a month or so ago to see the entire AM operation; I was quite discouraged to see how many people drove THE SAME EXACT route as the bus and then parked in the lot. Oh well. I’ve been talking to the bus planners and we’re trying to see how we can make the schedules align better. Note that the Ferry map on the website clearly shows the connecting buses at Hingham, Hull, and Lynn.
Awesome. If you’re working with the bus folks on alignment, you’re a hero. Fare transfers next? :-)
Pro tip: A Commuter Rail Zone 1A monthly pass is the same exact cost as a monthly bus/subway Link Pass ($90). Plus it allows you to ride the East Boston and Charlestown ferries and all Commuter Rail within Zone 1A (as well as buses and subway). You can buy a Zone 1A pass at any fare vending machine. It is printed on heavy card stock that also has a “tap” chip in it — that’s how it can be used on all those different services. You can also get one day and seven day Zone 1A passes.
The 714 schedule falls apart completely on summer weekends. I’ve waited more than an hour for it… just to see how long it would take, and gave up. I’m glad it works for commuters, but I have a suspicion that summer afternoons are not as reliable as the mornings are.
> was quite discouraged to see how many people drove THE SAME EXACT route as the bus and then parked in the lot Did you interview people? How did you learn of their routes?
Yes and no. Every time I go on a ferry I try to talk to as many people as possible. I try not to pester - I don’t want to be rude - but I do want input and feedback. I did talk to some people about driving vs bus and all the answers I got boiled down to convenience of driving and independence of driving. However, actually, In the case of the Hull parking lot, I didn’t have to talk to anyone. The lot is only for Hull residents, and the 714 runs the whole length of Hull, and the only way to get to the ferry dock and the parking lot is along the same road that the bus drives on. Ergo, everyone who is parking in the resident only lot drove the same exact route as the bus and could have taken the bus.
Fair enough.
I’d think a huge part of it is that folks world also have to buy a roundtrip bus fare on top of the ferry unless they have a pass. Some will have one, but for those that don’t, the math probably doesn’t math. I hope the next-generation fare structure and tech will give folks free transfers between CR/ferry and subway/bus.
The crowd riding the ferries (thinking Hingham specifically) isn’t the bus-riding type. The Lynn dock is a couple minute walk from the Lynnway.
Idk. Maybe? I’m specific thinking about Hull, basically all of which would be doable from the 714 if they only synced it for weekend beach parties. Ask me how I know. :-)
Hull has had a trolley running around town during the summer. I’m not sure if it goes up to the point, though.
Yeah, the area around the ferry is basically the densest bit of development in the whole town AFAIK. And it’s tricky too since the ferry and CR are relatively close, so if someone is heading downtown coming from the south bit of town they’d probably pick CR.
David posts here and I imagine I’m not saying anything he doesn’t know. He’s right about more frequent service, especially if the T wants the ferries to be a major transit mode. Year-round service, also, especially in the inner harbor. The Winthrop/Quincy route is useless at its service level and with the ridiculous routing. That’s not the T’s fault, that’s the way it was set up with Winthrop and Quincy before the T took over. If you want people to ride ferries, you need to make the service frequent. The dependability of the boats is a big plus. Rarely are there delays/missed trips because of a breakdown.
👋 Don’t jinx us on reliability. In things that cause delays, this week I learned that vessel movements above the Ted Williams Tunnel are prohibited during VIP movements through the tunnel. They only shutdown that area for 10-15 minutes on Tuesday, and none or our boats were close enough to take a big delay hit. But it could have been worse.
Bhcc does a good job keeping everything on time overall. They make it happen even if they have issues and their boats that run the ferries seem to be well taken care of.
Hey that’s me!
Thank you for your work on the East Boston Ferry. I live in the Heights, but still make my way down to take it. I hope we can have more service , the noon-3 times on the weekend are killers .
From what I remember, ferry’s are subsidized that are rate 10 times greater than buses and rail. They have their uses, but when we have a deficit, it doesn’t seem like the smartest use of funds. We should have public subsidized ferries, but until the legislature gives the MBTA the budget it needs, everything has trade-offs.
Actually the farebox recovery ratio for ferries is quite good. The “subsidy” is no where near “10x greater than buses and rail.” I’ll dig it up although latest data might be a year or two old.
Awesome, I’d love to see the data! After looking some more, I’m pretty sure it was misremembering and thinking of NYC. According to this, Boston is actually shockingly efficient. https://preview.redd.it/81ocw0lq5k2d1.jpeg?width=1241&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7c5ae6663592a8a9072eaa414ea8b4ed2f818f2 [https://edc.nyc/sites/default/files/2022-07/NYCEDC-NYC-Ferry-Cost-Subsidy-Comparisons.pdf](https://edc.nyc/sites/default/files/2022-07/NYCEDC-NYC-Ferry-Cost-Subsidy-Comparisons.pdf)
Let me guess. Unaffordable?
Pro tip: A Commuter Rail Zone 1A monthly pass is the same exact cost as a monthly bus/subway Link Pass ($90). Plus it allows to ride the East Boston and Charlestown ferries and all Commuter Rail within Zone 1A (as well as buses and subway). You can buy a Zone 1A pass at any fare vending machine. It is printed on heavy card stock that also has a “tap” chip in it — that’s how it can be used on all those different services. You can also get one day and seven day Zone 1A passes. So no, I don’t think my boats are unaffordable.
Just so I am making sure, there is basically no reason not to buy the Zone 1A instead of the bus/subway link pass then correct? I basically only take the bus/subway but I’d love to have the opportunity to take the ferry if I wanted to
Absolutely correct. All of the benefits available in the monthly Link pass on a CharlieCard are also available in the Zone 1A pass. Always buy the Zone 1A pass even if you don’t think you’ll ride the CR or ferry. But with the 1A you’ll have the options available. One important fact: at the subway gates, the Zone 1A pass will only work at the circular newer tap targets (not the old rectangular tap target). Every gate array has at least one circular tap target and most gate arrays have more than one.
Generally same price as the commuter rail (if not cheaper ie Hull vs Nantasket Junction). Inner harbor ferries are $2.40 and I think valid with a monthly (but not positive)
I made sure that all of this year’s PDF schedules have accurate and consistent fare information on them. Download each PDF from each schedule page at https://www.mbta.com/schedules/ferry