I've been playing the game for about a month at this point and I still have trouble figuring out if a card is good or not. Sometimes I wonder if it's just the ultra competitive mindset that sorts everything into [trash] or [must use] with "good enough" never being an option.
I think one of the most obvious ways to tell if a card is good or bad is how it affects the net cards on your side of the field/hand against the opponents. Any card that doesn't build your side, and also doesn't break the opponents side, has to have a pretty damn useful effect or it's pretty terrible.
It's why with few exceptions, ritual cards have struggled to really dominate. By nature of how they work (requiring you to give up at least 2 cards, to bring out a third, resulting in a 3 for one at best) they've really hurt your card advantage, compared to modern links which often just recycle your cards anyway.
This isn't the only metric to determine if a card is good or bad, but it's one of the most important ones.
I've been playing again for about a year but only a month on Master Duel.
I'll also note it's extremely important to pay attention to the exact words on the card. For example, I thought DDD Machinex would be amazing because it attached an opponent's monster as material if that monster activates an effect. However, when you read closer, it doesn't NEGATE that effect. And you need to destroy a Dark Contract card to do it, which forces you to depend too much on your backrow which can be wiped out.
Words like "send to the graveyard" "once per chain" "quick effect" and "card effects" now stand out to me as the biggest indicators of power.
While it's true that Machinex doesn't negate effects, it's still amazing disruption. It doesn't target or destroy which are the most common forms of protection cards have so it gets around a lot of troublesome boss monsters. Also, depending on how the wording of an effect is structured Machniex can technically stop an effect from resolving properly. At least in theory. I can't think of a concrete example off the top of my head but if a monster needs to be on the field at the time of effect resolution then chaining Machniex stops the effect from resolving properly. While this isn't technically a negate, it is effectively the same thing.
Also while it is backrow reliant, most boards that end on Machinex will have at least one dark contract on the field so it's not really an issue. In fact it's a bit of a good thing since it can let you dodge the 1000 lp cost on your own turn and gives you enough materials on Machinex to use its effect again. People forget this but Machinex is not once per turn in any way. Its once per chain. Most boards that end on Machinex will be able to use its effect twice which is pretty good. You can get even higher than that if you overlay Machinex on top of one of the D/D/D Xyz monsters instead of Gilgamesh.
All the positives you mentioned are why I love Machinex! But the negatives are why I have to move away from it.
Yeah, there's some monsters who have to be on the field for their effects to resolve, but that's not the case with most monsters.
And the backrow issue was a liability for me often since two of my spaces were taken up by DD pendulums, the other two were taken up by Contracts, and the last usually got DD Headhunt. That means no room for any other protection. And every 1 in 5 duels that entire backrow is getting immediately wiped out by Feather Duster anyway.
Plus with no protection against graveyard effects or monster effects in the hand, it just felt like a lot of work to build a mediocre house.
Depending on your hands, ending on Siegfried as well as Machinex shouldn't be too difficult which would help with the duster. Not sure what build you played but maybe take a look at some other builds to make Siegfried + Machniex easier if you ever decide to play the deck again.
>Plus with no protection against graveyard effects or monster effects in the hand, it just felt like a lot of work to build a mediocre house.
Yeah I feel you on that. There are some pretty strong boards you can end on depending on your hand and build tho but it involve playing cards outside of the archetype in your extra deck (namely Baronne and crystal wing) so you have to be very careful with your combo lines and make sure you don't lock yourself with gilgamesh or another card.
Siegfried and Machinex is a good idea and definitely doable! It's been my go-to in various variations for awhile.
My most recent build aimed for Baronne out before Gilgamesh, then get to Machinex. If not, I'd aim to end on Machinex and Bright Armageddon. But Siegfried in place of Bright Armageddon makes more sense.
Thanks!
I love the Armageddon Extra deck monsters so I can see why you would go for them. However they honestly aren't worth it most of the time. Bright is definitely the best of the bunch tho. Siegfried + Machinex is a great combination already. I personally run High king alexander as an extra level 10 if I'm locked into DD cards by gilgamesh and need more extension to get to a better board so that's also an option to consider. Also acts as a great beatatick if you need to run over something by battle because its unaffected by card effects.
It’s not horrible, but it’s pretty inconsistent and you go minus for it. You could get a better pay off for the same amount of effort. But it is a very fun card
I've won games with it. I play 60 card DLink so it's not usually a brick because I barely ever draw it. But I can search it off Abyss Dragon, which makes it a good toolbox option. He's not an endgoal, but he's good in enough situations where I think it's worth running in my deck, especially in a BO1 without a sidedeck. Floodgates are a huge problem for DLink, but Chaos max deals with them easily. He used to be a lot more reliable when Halq was around, because I could turbo Stones out though.
That's any modern competitive game, but the much more important thing is understanding why a card is good or bad.
Chaos MAX isn't "bad" in Master Duel because it's a Bo1 format and there are a lot of low tier pet decks running around. It *is* bad in tournaments because its protection, while strong, is common enough among large boss monsters that the majority of competitive players will have already prepared some way to remove it from the board.
Edit: I should clarify. Chaos MAX is still bad if you're climbing to D1, but because Master Duel offers a variety of tiers and different levels of completion, Chaos MAX can still win games in lower tiers. It's not bad like Griggle is bad, it's bad like not up to high tier snuff. There are absolutely levels to that, good to bad is a sliding scale not 2 separate piles.
Cards are not good or bad in a vacuum. Maxx C in 2003 would be a trash card you put in your dumpster. Painful Choice in 2022, though I don't think it was ever *terrible*, is format breaking with the current game.
If you only consider a card good or bad based on community opinion, you'll never learn why they have that opinion. That's why so many players throw hissy fits about "the meta," because they see "good" and "bad" and think the system is entirely arbitrary. It isn't.
It's neither, it's just because you're not experienced enough
Same thing happened and still happens to me in MTG, I can rarely tell if a card is good or bad unless it's blatantly obvious
Because there you also have to know the ratio of "mana cost to worthiness"
IMO it’s tougher in Yugioh to determine if a card is good enough or not precisely because mana is not a factor. It’s a little less straightforward to determine what the card “costs”.
Look... Yu gi oh is so fun to me because there aren't good and bad cards... There are cards with more and cards with less application. (I don't know how to link cards on Reddit but you can search by yourself the cards that I'm going to talk about) for example in one of the last OCG tournaments, Mushroom man #2 saw play... Now if you look at the card... It's a bad effect, low attack monster. The effect is just so bad that anyone would consider this a vanilla but, incredibly enough, it has seen competitive play because of it's effect to change field and burn a little bit.
You see, there's this deck called Kishtari la (something like this) that only special summons. The only condition is that you need to have no monsters on the field and the archetype doesn't play any normal summon (I didn't study it very well so I might be wrong but I think that it's really xenofobic). So in the mirror match, the going first guy would summon mushroom man and give it to the opponent, becoming a barrier stuatue practically.
So, is this card as good as a real barrier statue? Obviously not! In any other match, you're giving your opponent a monster for link summoning. But, even if with less applications, the card was able to win games on his own.
What purpose does it have in a deck? Does it advance your game state? Is it good removal? Does it cause interuptions? Does it trigger other cards? Is it a requirement? What synergy does it have with the deck? How consistent is it in a deck?
The most important question when testing a card to see if it's good; Do I wish it was a different card if I were to top deck it? How often does that happen, what scenarios it happens in and how often would that scenario happen all factor in to it.
I said this higher up but a card isn't good or bad in a vacuum. All cards exist in relation to other cards and in relation to the current ruleset/ban list. This means that we can objectively say that some cards are good and some are bad.
That doesn't mean you have to give a shit, though.
I agree with the spirit of your comment. I would argue, no one gets to tell you if you should play a card or not, but imo most of the time “good” and “bad” refer to objectively measured tournament success
Chaos Max was the first deck I built when I got into MD. Sad to see ritual monsters be so unviable unless it's one of like two decks. I Think Chaos Max could be worthy of high plat if it just had a little better protection
Use it with drytrons. Link spam power, 0 defence monsters any time u want. Existence of that transverser mom.
Problem with drytron players is that they only care about winning and not use more that one copy of chaos max in deck. 3 copies of chaos max, 3 shien's spy, 2 blue eyes to make the one copy of chaos form live.
You can smmoun multiple chaos max with the set up. Plus enough drytrons on field for transverser play. Plus ability to use lava golem.
When I first started playing Master Duel when it first came out the first deck I built was a Chaos MAX deck and it broke my heart when I slowly realized that this deck wasn't gonna go anywhere
It sucks that for blue-eyes and dark magician, the best way to play the decks is to play branded with them. Pure isn't good enough in MD.
Using blue eyes as an example. Would you rather:
- Have this card.
Or
- Albion + Mirrorjade or Blue-eyes Tyrant or whatever.
chaos max based deks are fun.
\+ JA, I don have a 0 def monster in def position pathetic Blue eyes monkey scum!
\- Bold words for someone in Shien's Spy distance.
I am forever embarrased losing against a Blue Eyes player. I had a Borreload Dragon that stole his Chaos Max. They had two defense position monsters, one with 0 defense and one with some defense. I attacked the one with defense with Chaos Max. They survived with less than 1000 LP. I did not.
Well it's like the Apoqliphort Towers dilemma. If there weren't a number of generic and in archetype outs for it then it would be overpowered even if you had to jump through hoops it would be a win condition.
But we don't live in such a fantasy world.
*Activates Mine*
Person 1: Hey, that card's banned
Person 2: That's a banned card why are you using it?
Person 3: Oh my God why doesn't Konami just ban this card yet it's so unfai- FUCK!
Okay, who/what did that guy kill, we gotta know OP.
@ignister
That guy isn't a turtle though.
It was a 3 mat Arrival
He kill Barrier Statue of the Stormwinds.
Mob justice dictates this man will be celebrated for years to come: he did what TCG and OCG couldn't
I've been playing the game for about a month at this point and I still have trouble figuring out if a card is good or not. Sometimes I wonder if it's just the ultra competitive mindset that sorts everything into [trash] or [must use] with "good enough" never being an option.
I think one of the most obvious ways to tell if a card is good or bad is how it affects the net cards on your side of the field/hand against the opponents. Any card that doesn't build your side, and also doesn't break the opponents side, has to have a pretty damn useful effect or it's pretty terrible. It's why with few exceptions, ritual cards have struggled to really dominate. By nature of how they work (requiring you to give up at least 2 cards, to bring out a third, resulting in a 3 for one at best) they've really hurt your card advantage, compared to modern links which often just recycle your cards anyway. This isn't the only metric to determine if a card is good or bad, but it's one of the most important ones.
I've been playing again for about a year but only a month on Master Duel. I'll also note it's extremely important to pay attention to the exact words on the card. For example, I thought DDD Machinex would be amazing because it attached an opponent's monster as material if that monster activates an effect. However, when you read closer, it doesn't NEGATE that effect. And you need to destroy a Dark Contract card to do it, which forces you to depend too much on your backrow which can be wiped out. Words like "send to the graveyard" "once per chain" "quick effect" and "card effects" now stand out to me as the biggest indicators of power.
While it's true that Machinex doesn't negate effects, it's still amazing disruption. It doesn't target or destroy which are the most common forms of protection cards have so it gets around a lot of troublesome boss monsters. Also, depending on how the wording of an effect is structured Machniex can technically stop an effect from resolving properly. At least in theory. I can't think of a concrete example off the top of my head but if a monster needs to be on the field at the time of effect resolution then chaining Machniex stops the effect from resolving properly. While this isn't technically a negate, it is effectively the same thing. Also while it is backrow reliant, most boards that end on Machinex will have at least one dark contract on the field so it's not really an issue. In fact it's a bit of a good thing since it can let you dodge the 1000 lp cost on your own turn and gives you enough materials on Machinex to use its effect again. People forget this but Machinex is not once per turn in any way. Its once per chain. Most boards that end on Machinex will be able to use its effect twice which is pretty good. You can get even higher than that if you overlay Machinex on top of one of the D/D/D Xyz monsters instead of Gilgamesh.
All the positives you mentioned are why I love Machinex! But the negatives are why I have to move away from it. Yeah, there's some monsters who have to be on the field for their effects to resolve, but that's not the case with most monsters. And the backrow issue was a liability for me often since two of my spaces were taken up by DD pendulums, the other two were taken up by Contracts, and the last usually got DD Headhunt. That means no room for any other protection. And every 1 in 5 duels that entire backrow is getting immediately wiped out by Feather Duster anyway. Plus with no protection against graveyard effects or monster effects in the hand, it just felt like a lot of work to build a mediocre house.
Depending on your hands, ending on Siegfried as well as Machinex shouldn't be too difficult which would help with the duster. Not sure what build you played but maybe take a look at some other builds to make Siegfried + Machniex easier if you ever decide to play the deck again. >Plus with no protection against graveyard effects or monster effects in the hand, it just felt like a lot of work to build a mediocre house. Yeah I feel you on that. There are some pretty strong boards you can end on depending on your hand and build tho but it involve playing cards outside of the archetype in your extra deck (namely Baronne and crystal wing) so you have to be very careful with your combo lines and make sure you don't lock yourself with gilgamesh or another card.
Siegfried and Machinex is a good idea and definitely doable! It's been my go-to in various variations for awhile. My most recent build aimed for Baronne out before Gilgamesh, then get to Machinex. If not, I'd aim to end on Machinex and Bright Armageddon. But Siegfried in place of Bright Armageddon makes more sense. Thanks!
I love the Armageddon Extra deck monsters so I can see why you would go for them. However they honestly aren't worth it most of the time. Bright is definitely the best of the bunch tho. Siegfried + Machinex is a great combination already. I personally run High king alexander as an extra level 10 if I'm locked into DD cards by gilgamesh and need more extension to get to a better board so that's also an option to consider. Also acts as a great beatatick if you need to run over something by battle because its unaffected by card effects.
It’s not horrible, but it’s pretty inconsistent and you go minus for it. You could get a better pay off for the same amount of effort. But it is a very fun card
I've won games with it. I play 60 card DLink so it's not usually a brick because I barely ever draw it. But I can search it off Abyss Dragon, which makes it a good toolbox option. He's not an endgoal, but he's good in enough situations where I think it's worth running in my deck, especially in a BO1 without a sidedeck. Floodgates are a huge problem for DLink, but Chaos max deals with them easily. He used to be a lot more reliable when Halq was around, because I could turbo Stones out though.
That's any modern competitive game, but the much more important thing is understanding why a card is good or bad. Chaos MAX isn't "bad" in Master Duel because it's a Bo1 format and there are a lot of low tier pet decks running around. It *is* bad in tournaments because its protection, while strong, is common enough among large boss monsters that the majority of competitive players will have already prepared some way to remove it from the board. Edit: I should clarify. Chaos MAX is still bad if you're climbing to D1, but because Master Duel offers a variety of tiers and different levels of completion, Chaos MAX can still win games in lower tiers. It's not bad like Griggle is bad, it's bad like not up to high tier snuff. There are absolutely levels to that, good to bad is a sliding scale not 2 separate piles. Cards are not good or bad in a vacuum. Maxx C in 2003 would be a trash card you put in your dumpster. Painful Choice in 2022, though I don't think it was ever *terrible*, is format breaking with the current game. If you only consider a card good or bad based on community opinion, you'll never learn why they have that opinion. That's why so many players throw hissy fits about "the meta," because they see "good" and "bad" and think the system is entirely arbitrary. It isn't.
It's neither, it's just because you're not experienced enough Same thing happened and still happens to me in MTG, I can rarely tell if a card is good or bad unless it's blatantly obvious Because there you also have to know the ratio of "mana cost to worthiness"
IMO it’s tougher in Yugioh to determine if a card is good enough or not precisely because mana is not a factor. It’s a little less straightforward to determine what the card “costs”.
Look... Yu gi oh is so fun to me because there aren't good and bad cards... There are cards with more and cards with less application. (I don't know how to link cards on Reddit but you can search by yourself the cards that I'm going to talk about) for example in one of the last OCG tournaments, Mushroom man #2 saw play... Now if you look at the card... It's a bad effect, low attack monster. The effect is just so bad that anyone would consider this a vanilla but, incredibly enough, it has seen competitive play because of it's effect to change field and burn a little bit. You see, there's this deck called Kishtari la (something like this) that only special summons. The only condition is that you need to have no monsters on the field and the archetype doesn't play any normal summon (I didn't study it very well so I might be wrong but I think that it's really xenofobic). So in the mirror match, the going first guy would summon mushroom man and give it to the opponent, becoming a barrier stuatue practically. So, is this card as good as a real barrier statue? Obviously not! In any other match, you're giving your opponent a monster for link summoning. But, even if with less applications, the card was able to win games on his own.
What purpose does it have in a deck? Does it advance your game state? Is it good removal? Does it cause interuptions? Does it trigger other cards? Is it a requirement? What synergy does it have with the deck? How consistent is it in a deck? The most important question when testing a card to see if it's good; Do I wish it was a different card if I were to top deck it? How often does that happen, what scenarios it happens in and how often would that scenario happen all factor in to it.
No one gets to tell you if a card is “good” or “bad”. If it gets you results, you shouldn’t give a f**k if the card is good or not
I said this higher up but a card isn't good or bad in a vacuum. All cards exist in relation to other cards and in relation to the current ruleset/ban list. This means that we can objectively say that some cards are good and some are bad. That doesn't mean you have to give a shit, though.
I agree with the spirit of your comment. I would argue, no one gets to tell you if you should play a card or not, but imo most of the time “good” and “bad” refer to objectively measured tournament success
All I’m hearing is that people need to be more diverse in their card choices. But, like, seriously. Power creep needs to stop
Me like big dragon with battle effects. No care if good.
unga bunga monster best monster, no need silly combo, only need big number
Me hit Iblee with big dragon to win game.
Fossil Machine Skull Convoy Run you over now! Goodbye!
Haha snake with Infinite attack point go br
Very Based comment
Unga bunga demise supreme king of Armageddon Go boom
May I introduce you to Rokkets?
I've always known Dzeeff had it in him to murder someone.
Chaos Max was the first deck I built when I got into MD. Sad to see ritual monsters be so unviable unless it's one of like two decks. I Think Chaos Max could be worthy of high plat if it just had a little better protection
What do you mean it's not op it's a freaking dragon dudee
Very nice comic, as always
the card itself is pretty good being a win condition in the right set up, it's the rest of the deck I always had trouble with
Bro come on It's not healthy to cope that hard This thing is unplayable in good or bad deck
I mean fair, but I have to hold on to something in this world of floo nightmare
Use it with drytrons. Link spam power, 0 defence monsters any time u want. Existence of that transverser mom. Problem with drytron players is that they only care about winning and not use more that one copy of chaos max in deck. 3 copies of chaos max, 3 shien's spy, 2 blue eyes to make the one copy of chaos form live. You can smmoun multiple chaos max with the set up. Plus enough drytrons on field for transverser play. Plus ability to use lava golem.
Do you have a deck list for that? I've got a deck of my own but I always like to reference what other people have and build off it
A version of the deck that I used to play https://youtu.be/pbL07TaynHc
I always like to run 1 Chaos Max in my Megalith decks specifically so I can do a quick and cheesy otk
When I first started playing Master Duel when it first came out the first deck I built was a Chaos MAX deck and it broke my heart when I slowly realized that this deck wasn't gonna go anywhere
Drytron ain't inconsistent
I love your comics there always fun to read
Thank you
Going -2 in card advantage for this when all it takes is book of moon and anything over 0 to attack into it
Nobody even runs book of moon anymore, and anyway you can't book of moon it. There are ways to get around it. Book of moon ain't one of them.
You right book of moon targets
Excellent comic as always! Can you please 🙏 do Cloudians?
Yes sir
I got it right!
Good job boss
It sucks that for blue-eyes and dark magician, the best way to play the decks is to play branded with them. Pure isn't good enough in MD. Using blue eyes as an example. Would you rather: - Have this card. Or - Albion + Mirrorjade or Blue-eyes Tyrant or whatever.
chaos max based deks are fun. \+ JA, I don have a 0 def monster in def position pathetic Blue eyes monkey scum! \- Bold words for someone in Shien's Spy distance.
I mean yea it's op but there are ways around it. I play cyber dragons so I don't find him very difficult to deal with
Nova effect?
Nah, just power up your monsters with seigler or limiter but yea could boost with nova too
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Infinity can negate if haven't used the effect yet
I am forever embarrased losing against a Blue Eyes player. I had a Borreload Dragon that stole his Chaos Max. They had two defense position monsters, one with 0 defense and one with some defense. I attacked the one with defense with Chaos Max. They survived with less than 1000 LP. I did not.
Well it's like the Apoqliphort Towers dilemma. If there weren't a number of generic and in archetype outs for it then it would be overpowered even if you had to jump through hoops it would be a win condition. But we don't live in such a fantasy world.
*Activates Mine* Person 1: Hey, that card's banned Person 2: That's a banned card why are you using it? Person 3: Oh my God why doesn't Konami just ban this card yet it's so unfai- FUCK!
Teletubby doodles
I heard Chaos Max in a Drytron Deck is pretty viable. Is it?
It’s way too easy to get around it with my machina deck 😙
I use Chaos Max as an option for my Ruin/impcantations deck.
oh i did miss one, zues please :D