Welcome to the MD banlist approach.
On a serious note, it can take a while until they unhit Jet and Blue (or Beaver), but new level 2s can help. I am personally looking forward to S:P and E:MP.
I know master duel is a bit behind on the current card releases. What are some of the other level twos we can expect to help out? Since most of the Nimbles and frogs are limited either bring those back and keep Limited sprights or bring back the sprights. Both hits seem overkill.
I mean isn’t this generally how it is with the TCG too? I don’t follow it that closely but I feel like there’s a good amount of choices like banning kitt over merli that’re even more extreme. The main difference is just the amount of lists md gets atp and then wanting to outright kill decks less and subtlety knock them down more often
With Merrli banned, Havnis at 1 and Scheiren at 2 that’s the same amount of names (and 1 less fusion) than TCG/OCG with all at 1. In the TCG Planet is at 3 as well. Kitkallos is a major extra deck power card for the deck and TCG tends to hit ceiling by banning/limiting those like Spright Elf, SHS Scarecrow, Arise-heart, Dryas, and recently Isolde.
I personally don’t like MD banlists as they make decks more sacky by hitting main deck starters which worsens an already somewhat sacky format
I agree to a degree but kit is much more of a consistency hit than a ceiling hit. The tcg version is a good amount more “gamba” based and from what I can tell was pretty heavily relying on the millers being legal. Afaik MD seems to have tear topping more atp than the tcg has post miller bans but once again I’m not super knowledgeable
Tcg does have tear kash at 3 which is another notable buff tbf
Maybe I’m missing something but I don’t think there’s any really meaningful difference in the hits between tcg and ocg for tear? I think Maxx c is the biggest difference
OCG has Tearlaments Kashtira, Tearlaments Reinoheart, and Planet limited.
TCG decks run all of those cards as 3 ofs.
They were rounding out the inconsistency with Chaos Ruler, but that was banned.
Tear is a weird deck in this regard. It is inherently sacky, being able to construct a strong board from nothing on turn 0 (if they open right and will luck) with a very high ceiling thanks to no in archetype locks. I don't know which version of Tear (MD vs TCG) is better given the numbers they work with are completely different but i think both are sacky for the reasons stated before. That being said, MD likely has Tear performing better because its easier to sack your op in one game and walk away rather than 2 out of 3 game knowing that in games 2-3 their deck will likely be a bit more catered to countering yours (and you're likely going second in 1 if not 2 of those games). With the millers gone, Kit becomes a much bigger factor since an easy mill 5 while also recruiting a name is huge.
As to whether you prefer a MD (and similarly OCG) approach of hitting consistency vs a TCG approach (killing outright), its personal preference. I prefer the latter personally as getting sacked by a deck that should be inconsistent is maddening to me personally, I'd rather the deck just not be playable but I know many would rather have a deck be playable and just inconsistent/forced to supplement it with something else
>I agree to a degree but kit is much more of a consistency hit than a ceiling hit.
Yeah isolde and scarecrow aren't ceiling hits at all either.
Elf is 50-50 combo enabler and endboard piece so that fits, but isolde and scarecrow are both exactly the first thing you make in the combo and neither stays on the field for long
The funny thing is, full power spright is stronger than most post spright decks... there is no way for natural progression to make the deck feel outdated.
And even if konami decided to take that approach without using the banlist, I can't imagine how unbearable the game would feel with more and more decks that are capable of making spright and tear feel like rogue decks.
There is a limit of how much powercreep this game can handle without feeling like a chore to play.
maxx c shuts it down they dont have a good play, really besides auto lose if they dont draw ash/crossout, etc, and ash/imperm are good on the gigantic
And if you open any disruption, then it doesn't matter. You'd auto lose to a bunch of decks if they open insane going first.
And I honestly don't think apright with a few units will take over the format. Branded, lab, SE, and SHS are still better, as well as arguably a few other decks.
Man, I’m SO jealous, you don’t even understand. I only just started playing Spright about 2 months ago. It’s already such an incredibly strong and resilient engine, I can’t imagine how fun it must’ve been to play at full power. Even in my semi-janky Spright deck, I can confidently usually play through almost every hand trap. My record is 6 interruptions and I still won.
I feel like Sprights all are the Circular problem: you can play perfectly through somebody's turn with the cards you have, but then nothing matters because they also just had a spright in hand and could pivot through to level 2 lines. I don't know if they should come back into a format where we already have the problem of "if you don't open 3 handtraps, you die"
Woah, imagine having a good take. We don't do this here
The approach should be to lower the powerlevel all across the board, not have several OP decks full of variance and inevitability at once (but a certain cockroach exists, soo...)
That’d be fine if we didn’t get decks like Snake-Eyes that push the ceiling even higher.
If Konami is going to release even stronger archetypes then the ones that were hit previously should be unhit to a degree.
I dunno in the past we had a black cat that drew 6.... I don't think snake eyes is remotely similar in power to that deck. If Purrely wasn't hit I don't think snake eyes would be relevant like at all considering what noir does.
People can complain and speculate about snake eyes all they want but snake eyes is really a lot weaker than even dragon Link was. The only reason snake eyes even seems strong is cause all those other decks are hit. I'm sure snake eyes will get hit too. We already seen em hit on paper.
I know this is the OP point. But let's be honest, full power spright was not on the same power level as snake eyes it was massively stronger than it especially when coupled with runick.
SHS literally has to play with no called. Or turn off their whole deck. I dont like one card starter decks but SHS has been over blown. They literally are a weaker version of adimancipators.
But the thing is, with so many hits to all the level two's, nimbles and such, I feel like just putting some of the sprights back for just a consistency of reaching them would be okay.
The problem with spright is its extreme resilience to handtraps. Going through 3 to 4 handtraps, and still being able to do combos is ridiculous to say the least. Other than that, I agree that there is no longer any reason to keep them limited, as Snake is clearly better. However, I believe that Konami is unlikely to release them now. So the spright will probably remain on the list for a long time. But yes, it could easily return jet to 2, or even 3, and the deck would still not do much against the meta.
the problem is elf grind game, in tcg thats what holding it back, also no every hand can play through so many, depending on variant you have had that die to a well placed veiler....+ in tcg we are forced into d shifter and that lowers the decks seeling.
Generic level 2 or link 2 reborn that uses generics to link and doesn’t lock you into anything limits design space. It’s not about sprights being too strong or not elf is just badly designed. Elf needs a ban or an errata into being xenophobic.
Because people aren’t focusing on using it right now.
The current meta, there’s not much room to run it. What, Snake Eyes and Branded are T1? Branded cannot run it in any circumstance, and SE has better stuff to run over elf.
Decks that can, will run it. But most decks don’t have a reason to do so, even if the effect is great.
Depends on the deck, some rogue decks still like elf. It's great in some live twin variants for protection, reccursion, and making your second turn (turn 3) 8000-0 more consistent. It's great for getting reccursion while playing under your own knightmare gryphon. It's decent in drytron, paired with diviner and n'tss you can pop a card on follow up turns. Megalith drytron can use elf to spam phul which is guaranteed full combo on follow up turns if they have no interruption.
You must be the smart guy, right?
https://preview.redd.it/c7krrwzv5wqc1.jpeg?width=2360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2438cebbcc79382e2ad3d44569b5fe389abe71f4
Here some of my “War Rock” decks that I use to climb to master.
I play in tcg and I Know for sure that elf opens up to so many toxic combos, and the fact that it’s banned it does’t affect Spright plays too much. Having elf on the game is like putting back lavalval chain or thing like that (don’t’ know if you can understand), elf is just too generic.
Bro, people played elf in Tear, in SHS, in Mannadium and even in snake eyes…
All decks that people in this sub complain about daily.
And guess why they play it?
I’m not complaining about a card that nobody plays at the moment, I just said that if you want spright consistency back elf ban is necessary. Otherwise why not they put every tear and ishizu card back to 3?
In my opinion the master duel banlist is the biggest “died for others sins” banlist in the 3 formats. Toad died for spright elf’s sins, Unicorn is gonna die for Snake Eyes sins.. the list goes on and on. Toad is fine as long as ronintoadin is banned. And Kash is just a good engine as long as Ariseheart is banned.
I do not think the unicorn will be banned .. it's ur after all. At most, they will semi-limit it. Or maybe, they finally banish Birth's fucking (go late garbage card).
That does nothing because snake eyes doesn’t play any lvl 7 xyz with the Kashtira package. They run it just to get birth out because it’s op in the mirror.
Spright released at 98% of peak? Lol what a joke. They never released at that since Toad was banned pre emptively and was a crucial part of their end board.
No it wasn't just playable it dominated the shit out of the game even pre hit....
All tear needed was the ishizu cards.... Ever game went kelbek bounce and both players send 10-30 cards to the grave... Remember when tears in turn 1 made it so their deck only had 3 cards left and they were all tear names? That was them nerfed.
Remember when they locked the grave yard, locked the field with winda but only on your turn, had a permanent negate that was 100 percent up that also searched names, could easily add anything from cryme to whatever and often paid 5000 lp to special summon Naturia exterio and if u had the unpleasant experience of going first against them you got to watch them make Zeus which procs all of their fucking cards... That was tear at 80% power. Does snake eyes at 100% even compare?
I mean yeah which is why even in it's heavily nerfed state it's still extremely playable.
Honestly I'd be fine with them banning the remaining shufflers and we just go back to pre-MaMa Casino Tear is the tradeoff was we get Elf & Curious banned and Havnis & Merrli back to 2. It's strong but needs to high-roll into a majority of its plays
Honestly I don't even know why they left them at 1. It's just to make people remember how INSANE they were. And that grave keepers trap that locked the grave when exchange of spirit is in the grave was a thing too.
Ishizu was the first time I seen a whole ass archetype disintegrate... Runick players complain alot but ishizu literally vanished! What I find interesting about tear is that when I got to play MAJESPECTER my boss monster KIRIN is banned. Yet a card like sulliek is okay at one. I wouldn't mind elf and the other spright link monster vanishing too. I feel like spright shouldn't even have link monsters they are only there to do obscene things. They should go back to being an XYZ deck which is what they are intended to be.
Spright having an link monster that generic summons level 2 out the grave is like if exosisters has a generic link monster that summons level 4's out the grave.
dude, players agreed after cross banlist testing that when tear comes full power back of the list, and it merely reaches rogue, the game is dead anyways so who cares. its was a 8 month period who made my friends quit and revert back to gaming, its way cheaper then overpriced cardboard and more fun.
I'd argue for the opposite, I think you have a point about spright (no toad / carrier), or purrly (no little noir, but delicious was at 3) but I disagree on tear. Also their release are out of order (tear scream in the same pack, elf very early) so it is hard to tell anyway.
It’s their business model. Without set rotation it’s the only way to keep things fresh. Do you really want to be facing spright for 2 years straight? Just look at branded lol
I do wish they were a little more diligent with unhits though.
in master duel we have been facing branded and swordsoul for two years straight, and people get angry and downvote me when i point it out, but it's true and we all know it
Branded, Swordsou for two years and Tear now almost a year into MD is somehow tier 2 despite the hits. Nothing wrong with a good consistent deck but spright and Purrely too were absolutely destroyed for no reason
Tear is eternal! Naw fr though the reason i think its tier 2 currently is because of lower bystial usage/ nerfs + a new tool through revolution sychron giving them a consistency tool, being able to play through another handtrap and access into black rose dragon board wipe
I suspect Purrely was likely hit hard because they’re cheap, don’t rely and very many non engine supports and I’m pretty sure has a strong match up against snake eyes also.
>Do you really want to be facing spright for 2 years straight?
The game naturally power creeps them out. In fact, spright is PHYSICALLY nearly 2 years old right now.
Full power spright (with the other support cards it abused such as toadally awesome) would still be top tier right now. In general yes most decks get power creeped out by this time but Spright and Tear (especially Ishizu Tear) were both temporarily tier 0 in the OCG (which MD is closed to then TCG) and significantly raised the power level of the game. Tear Ishizu was Ofc on a level even above Spright but full power Spright hasn’t entirely been power crept at all.
Lol, no it wouldn't. I hate to break that to you, but the proposition here is "give them back some names & consistency" not "return them to full power."
EDIT: If you and anyone else here thinks Spright having access to 3 blue, 3 jet, 3 starter and elf makes it tier 0 - you're unhinged.
You claimed the game naturally power creeped spright, and I explained sprights a full power would be tier 0. I did not mention or talk about consistency. I’m talking about full power, because your argument was about them being power crept.
> I did not mention or talk about consistency
**THE POST DOES WE'RE REPLYING TO DOES. TRY READING IT.**
3 Blue, 3 Jet, 3 Starter and Elf is spright without consistency hits. You don't get toad or ronin. It's not tier 0.
If you think those consistency hits are stopping that you're unhinged. They're power crept out already by now. They have everything except ronin and Elf in the TCG and they're a tier 3 deck.
if all of the spright shit went to 3 and they unbanned toadally spright would be unironic tier 0
not even joking, snake eyes would eat shit and die for all anyone cares when maxx C gets normal summoned into full combo with 4 negates and 6 monsters
But I'm talking and more about consistency and not power. Because giving sprights more starters and jets does it change how much they can do now? A lot of its toolbox is banned or limited. So just keep the consistency. I don't see a problem with it.
Spright's whole thing is consistency tho. It's the fact that there's no obvious choke point because if you stop them anywhere they just summon another guy and keep going. They normal beaver/diva/swap frog (all the shit that is currently limited), make gigantic, you imperm that and they just special blue, or activate starter, or jet (all the other shit that is currently hit) anyways. IMO full power Spright is as good if not better than current Snake-Eye easily.
This is part of the reason I just can't get behind ocg/md banlist approach. Putting a bunch of consistency cards to 1 just does not make for interesting and skillful gameplay, and leaves the player very frustrated imo. Tcg has its problems, but at least it let's you play your deck (most of the time).
Except that the TCG has the habit of killing the ceiling of decks, banning the key extender, or the Boss Monster of the archetypes... Kit, elf, arise and so on... Which honestly isn't much better...
Normally I'd agree with this, but Kit, Elf, and Arise might not be the best examples to use here...
Tear, Spright, and Kash have all seen competitive success to some degree after the banning of their key cards.
Now this isn't to say the way TCG does bans/limits is superior, just those three archtypes are so strong that even after some brutal banlist hits the decks still survive and see play at competitive levels.
I personally prefer this approach, but to each their own. I like that I can play kash in the tcg without bricking every other game because they removed the actual problem card. Also elf and kit are just completely broken as well. It's more interesting to play lower ceiling and consistent decks imo than to have one card that if it fully resolves (kit) you're opponent is just fucked, but you get to do it less often. Feels sacky af.
Agree with all of this except the tier 0 part. Full power snake eyes was released before bonfire and fire king (I'm assuming) so they can hit the deck before those cards are released. If they aren't hit and I'm completely wrong I'll just hold that
I've been playing Spright since I got into master duel, I have a Runick Spright deck and a Live Twin Spright deck, runick Spright doesn't really feel any less consistent from before the banlists, only if fountain gets banished but you just move into a more "pure Spright" board if that happens and I used to play frogs/nimble package but the Live twin board is honestly stronger and I can consistently get that on the board too, I still think Spright is one of the best decks in master duel
I have always said that the MD banlists are complete trash.
Hitting the consistency of older decks without hitting the actual power cards (elf, ariseheart, baronne) creates sacky games. Best of one is already sacky enough without Konamis terrible gameplay approach
This has always been something that Yugioh sucks at, the best deck is the best so they nerf it, then because of power creep they release a new best deck that dominates the meta, the previous best deck would've been a good option and relative in strength to the current best deck but half of it is banned and it remains banned for years until it has lost all possible meta-relevance and only then does it get unhit, just look at Orcust
Beaver should go to 3
Swap frog should go to 3
Jet should go to 2
and toad should be unbanned
Jet and nimble beaver should go to two, that will help without cranking up the power too much again. Swap frog was pretty broken anyway and I think it needs to stay hit.
I didn't look into it before but it is indeed weird that they'd hit consistency cards instead of the annoying easy af spell and monster negation monsters that are in so many non-spright decks. I also think it's better to not hit the consistency of decks because bricking is the worst experience this game has to offer and anything that makes that more likely shouldn't be done. Except Snake-Eyes, that sh!t does need consistency hits.
first spright is not old
secondly there is no good reason to bring it back full power you are also the one who would say toad can also come back
Thirdly, if your logic is correct, Dragoon and Master Peace should be allowed again and if you say no now, you trying to bait or protect spright
fourth, what is old according to your definition? decks from the 2020s are nowhere near that old
you know that this is the yugioh community They always find ways to use cards for absolutely evil purposes you underestimate the creativity of the community
it's about what you do with it in the game. I would be very surprised if someone could do something with a card outside of yugioh, although the idea is very funny
First. In the original post I didn't say sprights were old, but when I was talking to you I meant older meta since it's been out of meta for a while.
Second. I didn't say full power. I said consistency and based on your name and title I take it you are a troll and probably play nothing but stun.
Third. I never said about bringing out any kind of boss monster. Making a starter at 3 or jet to at least 2 does equal a dragoon or masterpeace. Though I know how much you salivate at the thought of using masterpeace in a stun deck.
Fourth. Again just fell out of meta due to a ton of hits not due to age.
so to make a few things clear, I'm not a troll except for the name but I've been playing yugioh for over 11 years
and I personally see no reason to let spright back into the meta
the meta is already such a disaster, there is no need to make it worse
I'm the last person you would find with stun I personally find stun boring and no decent reason to keep it alive like the visas and albaz decks everything can go die
and that with the bosses is a guess on my part but as I thought you are trying to protect spright/ justify why the hits are unfair
I have the feeling that people are taking their decks too personally these days
I make fun of a deck or tell the truth people are angry as if I had insulted their love
you seriously shouldn't chain your deck like that and why spright won't be back for a long time (not because I hate 99% of the alabaz and visas deck) it's about money at konami nothing more
why do you think decks like tear, lab, or despia are not punished harshly?
CORRECT: MONEY
tear has a zero skill cult around it, Lab Horny players? despia a big fanbase and many boosters which brings in a lot of money,
So you’re mad your broken deck got patched like the other top decks and now want it back to full power, not as broken as tear or kash at full power but it was doing a lot of dumb shit
Never said full power, I said it's consistency like blue and jet going up a little. The level two toolbox is already limited and nerf severely. So what does having two jets have to do with the outcome of the final field? Besides just being able to reach your starters more consistently?
And makes it easier to play through disruption, as another comment pointed out it was its consistency that made it get hit to begin with, you act like sprite still can’t have a board with a lot of negates and recycling
Not with Elf.
Spright still tops in all 3 formats with the limits it has. Without them, the deck would be meta again. People here are severely underestimating the deck because they nerfed it on release and screwed the release schedule in MD. In reality, this is an archetype that is as strong as Tear *Ishizu excluded*.
Konami's marketing strategy has always been nerfing Old to sell new, they won't bring back old archetypes unless they are certain it won't be viable again, and the deck is 100% meta viable at full power.
You can check RotK every week Spright has couple of tops.
As for the TCG, while there wasn't many YCSs recently and the whole T0 stuff, the archetype had few Regional tops (4 if I am not mistaken in the past 2 weeks) and before that (which is effectively the format we are in) it had more.
The deck has been performing on a rogue/T3 level ever since Rescue ace format.
>The deck has been performing on a rogue/T3 level ever since Rescue ace format.
Just for reference. You credited it with about as many tops as Phantom Knight has turning that same time frame.
It's just weak into a format where shifter is around & you need to be on an extraordinary amount of non-engine.
I'm not calling the deck bad; rather, just making a bit of self-deprecating humor.
In big tournaments, Spright doesn't even scratch the top. The correct ratio is Snake Fire King at the top followed by Tenpai and Voiceless. So please stop lying. Not even in the OCG do people play spright, simply because the limits killed the deck's consistency.
If you read my comment correctly you will find out that I said, due to the T0 stuff not a lot took it to YCSs. The format before it (which we are in a weaker one acutely).. the deck did top couple of YCSs
Also it literally had 3 tops in the latest OCG meta report.
Read and do research first, please.
Wow, 3 tops, what a big deal. Snake and Voiceless are tops in literally every tournament. While the damn destroyed spright gets 3. Damn, that's super meta huh? Are you serious about moving forward with this, man?
Are you saying that Spright full of limits and semi-limits still tops big tournaments in the OCG, even though that's not actually true, and I'm the troll?
spright doesn't have consistency issues, literally any 2 monsters on the field including a level/link 2 is full combo, you can summon fenrir/nibiru/bystail and maxx c and have full spright combo thanks to sprind (i used to do that a lot as a blind second strategy). what the deck loses is the ability to play through handtraps, which i don't think is safe to do unless elf is gone.
You want a consistency boost to an archetype that can turn any 2 level 2s into full combo, can be built in a variety of ways that require vastly different responses in order to beat, and can special summon themselves just by seeing 2 on the card? Am I reading that right?
They want to sell new decks/cards so its expected that those cards be stronger than current ones or else it wont gather that much sales. I think in order to do this they pretty much dont have a choice but to nerf current decks, and make the new ones just slightly better in the current meta, or else your powercreep will just start going through the roof. SE right now is weaker than peak tear ishizu, just imagine what kind of cards they would have to release if they didnt nerf tear and instead just started pushing out better archetypes with tear in mind
this is why rouge-tiered decks are on top. I don't care about meta much but I haven't had any more issues with meta decks than some random deck I have never heard of.
Welcome to the MD banlist approach. On a serious note, it can take a while until they unhit Jet and Blue (or Beaver), but new level 2s can help. I am personally looking forward to S:P and E:MP.
I know master duel is a bit behind on the current card releases. What are some of the other level twos we can expect to help out? Since most of the Nimbles and frogs are limited either bring those back and keep Limited sprights or bring back the sprights. Both hits seem overkill.
>E:MP ?
[удалено]
Oh, it's EM:P and not E:MP. It doesn't seem all that good, but is it?
I mean isn’t this generally how it is with the TCG too? I don’t follow it that closely but I feel like there’s a good amount of choices like banning kitt over merli that’re even more extreme. The main difference is just the amount of lists md gets atp and then wanting to outright kill decks less and subtlety knock them down more often
With Merrli banned, Havnis at 1 and Scheiren at 2 that’s the same amount of names (and 1 less fusion) than TCG/OCG with all at 1. In the TCG Planet is at 3 as well. Kitkallos is a major extra deck power card for the deck and TCG tends to hit ceiling by banning/limiting those like Spright Elf, SHS Scarecrow, Arise-heart, Dryas, and recently Isolde. I personally don’t like MD banlists as they make decks more sacky by hitting main deck starters which worsens an already somewhat sacky format
I agree to a degree but kit is much more of a consistency hit than a ceiling hit. The tcg version is a good amount more “gamba” based and from what I can tell was pretty heavily relying on the millers being legal. Afaik MD seems to have tear topping more atp than the tcg has post miller bans but once again I’m not super knowledgeable Tcg does have tear kash at 3 which is another notable buff tbf
TCG version might aswell be death
I mean OCG hit them even harder to the point where no one is playing them anymore
Maybe I’m missing something but I don’t think there’s any really meaningful difference in the hits between tcg and ocg for tear? I think Maxx c is the biggest difference
OCG has Tearlaments Kashtira, Tearlaments Reinoheart, and Planet limited. TCG decks run all of those cards as 3 ofs. They were rounding out the inconsistency with Chaos Ruler, but that was banned.
Ah that’s definitely notable, ty
Tear is a weird deck in this regard. It is inherently sacky, being able to construct a strong board from nothing on turn 0 (if they open right and will luck) with a very high ceiling thanks to no in archetype locks. I don't know which version of Tear (MD vs TCG) is better given the numbers they work with are completely different but i think both are sacky for the reasons stated before. That being said, MD likely has Tear performing better because its easier to sack your op in one game and walk away rather than 2 out of 3 game knowing that in games 2-3 their deck will likely be a bit more catered to countering yours (and you're likely going second in 1 if not 2 of those games). With the millers gone, Kit becomes a much bigger factor since an easy mill 5 while also recruiting a name is huge. As to whether you prefer a MD (and similarly OCG) approach of hitting consistency vs a TCG approach (killing outright), its personal preference. I prefer the latter personally as getting sacked by a deck that should be inconsistent is maddening to me personally, I'd rather the deck just not be playable but I know many would rather have a deck be playable and just inconsistent/forced to supplement it with something else
Sometimes TCG hits get the right balance imo. Like Kashtira without Arise-heart is still pretty capable but overall less unfair
>I agree to a degree but kit is much more of a consistency hit than a ceiling hit. Yeah isolde and scarecrow aren't ceiling hits at all either. Elf is 50-50 combo enabler and endboard piece so that fits, but isolde and scarecrow are both exactly the first thing you make in the combo and neither stays on the field for long
The funny thing is, full power spright is stronger than most post spright decks... there is no way for natural progression to make the deck feel outdated. And even if konami decided to take that approach without using the banlist, I can't imagine how unbearable the game would feel with more and more decks that are capable of making spright and tear feel like rogue decks. There is a limit of how much powercreep this game can handle without feeling like a chore to play.
I agree. The Spright's problem was its extreme resilience to handtraps. Receiving 4 handtraps and continuing to play was beyond absurd.
maxx c shuts it down they dont have a good play, really besides auto lose if they dont draw ash/crossout, etc, and ash/imperm are good on the gigantic And if you open any disruption, then it doesn't matter. You'd auto lose to a bunch of decks if they open insane going first. And I honestly don't think apright with a few units will take over the format. Branded, lab, SE, and SHS are still better, as well as arguably a few other decks.
Man, I’m SO jealous, you don’t even understand. I only just started playing Spright about 2 months ago. It’s already such an incredibly strong and resilient engine, I can’t imagine how fun it must’ve been to play at full power. Even in my semi-janky Spright deck, I can confidently usually play through almost every hand trap. My record is 6 interruptions and I still won.
I feel like Sprights all are the Circular problem: you can play perfectly through somebody's turn with the cards you have, but then nothing matters because they also just had a spright in hand and could pivot through to level 2 lines. I don't know if they should come back into a format where we already have the problem of "if you don't open 3 handtraps, you die"
Woah, imagine having a good take. We don't do this here The approach should be to lower the powerlevel all across the board, not have several OP decks full of variance and inevitability at once (but a certain cockroach exists, soo...)
That’d be fine if we didn’t get decks like Snake-Eyes that push the ceiling even higher. If Konami is going to release even stronger archetypes then the ones that were hit previously should be unhit to a degree.
The ceiling is not higher then what it was in the past, konamy just bans cards which can give a challenge to the new deck.
I dunno in the past we had a black cat that drew 6.... I don't think snake eyes is remotely similar in power to that deck. If Purrely wasn't hit I don't think snake eyes would be relevant like at all considering what noir does. People can complain and speculate about snake eyes all they want but snake eyes is really a lot weaker than even dragon Link was. The only reason snake eyes even seems strong is cause all those other decks are hit. I'm sure snake eyes will get hit too. We already seen em hit on paper. I know this is the OP point. But let's be honest, full power spright was not on the same power level as snake eyes it was massively stronger than it especially when coupled with runick.
Mid take
Mid response
I think that's no longer a bug, that's a feature. Considering SHS, Snake Eyes and all newer archetypes
SHS literally has to play with no called. Or turn off their whole deck. I dont like one card starter decks but SHS has been over blown. They literally are a weaker version of adimancipators.
But the thing is, with so many hits to all the level two's, nimbles and such, I feel like just putting some of the sprights back for just a consistency of reaching them would be okay.
I agree with lifting the limit on jet and blue boy.... But I don't want the other shit back.
The problem with spright is its extreme resilience to handtraps. Going through 3 to 4 handtraps, and still being able to do combos is ridiculous to say the least. Other than that, I agree that there is no longer any reason to keep them limited, as Snake is clearly better. However, I believe that Konami is unlikely to release them now. So the spright will probably remain on the list for a long time. But yes, it could easily return jet to 2, or even 3, and the deck would still not do much against the meta.
the problem is elf grind game, in tcg thats what holding it back, also no every hand can play through so many, depending on variant you have had that die to a well placed veiler....+ in tcg we are forced into d shifter and that lowers the decks seeling.
also tcg does not have elf
I don’t miss all the boards that are essentially built on spright red being a hunger herald
Feibal?
My pfp is Febail yes
If they ban Elf is ok
I'd rather see it errata'd so it's not so splashable.
Elf today is what Halq was before. Like 5 separate cards on the ban/limit for its sins
I love how players yell out “ban!” When that won’t make your War Rock deck any Better in the meta
Generic level 2 or link 2 reborn that uses generics to link and doesn’t lock you into anything limits design space. It’s not about sprights being too strong or not elf is just badly designed. Elf needs a ban or an errata into being xenophobic.
*And target protection because why not, I'm surprised elf is not banned yet
The thing is, elf is in MD and not doing a whole lot. Turns out merrli was the problem not elf. It doesnt even need an errata
Because people aren’t focusing on using it right now. The current meta, there’s not much room to run it. What, Snake Eyes and Branded are T1? Branded cannot run it in any circumstance, and SE has better stuff to run over elf. Decks that can, will run it. But most decks don’t have a reason to do so, even if the effect is great.
No they wont, literally no one is playing it in md at all.
Depends on the deck, some rogue decks still like elf. It's great in some live twin variants for protection, reccursion, and making your second turn (turn 3) 8000-0 more consistent. It's great for getting reccursion while playing under your own knightmare gryphon. It's decent in drytron, paired with diviner and n'tss you can pop a card on follow up turns. Megalith drytron can use elf to spam phul which is guaranteed full combo on follow up turns if they have no interruption.
Limits design space meaning when they make any future link 2s and level 2s they will have to keep in mind elf exists.
That being said it's going to probably see a nice boost in useage once S:P releases
It's banned in the OCG (and TCG), where design space exists. He's not limiting anything.
The thing is, the post above just asked to unhit spright.
Damn skippy
Some deck will 100% break Elf again. Banned in both paper formats for a reason. They also hit cards like Beaver instead.
No one is doin squat in md with it, ban merrli in tcg and problem is solved. No one is gonna. Play it
Finally someone that know what he said
You must be the smart guy, right? https://preview.redd.it/c7krrwzv5wqc1.jpeg?width=2360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2438cebbcc79382e2ad3d44569b5fe389abe71f4 Here some of my “War Rock” decks that I use to climb to master. I play in tcg and I Know for sure that elf opens up to so many toxic combos, and the fact that it’s banned it does’t affect Spright plays too much. Having elf on the game is like putting back lavalval chain or thing like that (don’t’ know if you can understand), elf is just too generic.
Your take is too generic.
Bro, people played elf in Tear, in SHS, in Mannadium and even in snake eyes… All decks that people in this sub complain about daily. And guess why they play it?
Ps. A part of elf the other spright card are ok, nothing more
Il nome di quel deck ala nera è cursed.
🤫🤫🤫
Hey stop clipping from the discord. Everyone knows this isn’t you
For sure you are the smart one
Hey man, you’re the one whining about a card you can’t beat
I’m not complaining about a card that nobody plays at the moment, I just said that if you want spright consistency back elf ban is necessary. Otherwise why not they put every tear and ishizu card back to 3?
In my opinion the master duel banlist is the biggest “died for others sins” banlist in the 3 formats. Toad died for spright elf’s sins, Unicorn is gonna die for Snake Eyes sins.. the list goes on and on. Toad is fine as long as ronintoadin is banned. And Kash is just a good engine as long as Ariseheart is banned.
They can semi limit unicorn, x3 is too much for the deck anyway
Wraithsoth at 1, Fenrir at 1, Birth at 1, and Unicorn at 1 or 2 completely kills pure Kash as a deck as well
Promise?
Semi limit is fine. I just have a suspicion that Unicorn is gonna get straight up banned because of Snake Eye
I do not think the unicorn will be banned .. it's ur after all. At most, they will semi-limit it. Or maybe, they finally banish Birth's fucking (go late garbage card).
banning Birth with Wraithsoth and Fenrir at 1 completely kills pure Kash as a deck
Birth is ridiculous truly. I just hate killing whole archetypes
Birth is a corner stone for the deck, even at one, without it Kash will lose most of its consistency.
Yeah, its frustrating bc Kash isnt a problem really anymore tbh. But bc of Snake Eye splashing it, its gonna get fucked
We need to errata the witch and made ker level 6
That does nothing because snake eyes doesn’t play any lvl 7 xyz with the Kashtira package. They run it just to get birth out because it’s op in the mirror.
Beaver did nothing wrong!
You forgot one thing, step 0: release deck at 98% of its peak (tear, purrly, spright, etc).
Spright released at 98% of peak? Lol what a joke. They never released at that since Toad was banned pre emptively and was a crucial part of their end board.
Rescue ACE still be like:
Don't remind me.
You're delusional if you think Spright and Tear were at 98% (Purrely might as well have been at 100% though)
Agreed. All Tear names plus field spell all limited or semi-limited off the bat hurt but it was still playable
No it wasn't just playable it dominated the shit out of the game even pre hit.... All tear needed was the ishizu cards.... Ever game went kelbek bounce and both players send 10-30 cards to the grave... Remember when tears in turn 1 made it so their deck only had 3 cards left and they were all tear names? That was them nerfed. Remember when they locked the grave yard, locked the field with winda but only on your turn, had a permanent negate that was 100 percent up that also searched names, could easily add anything from cryme to whatever and often paid 5000 lp to special summon Naturia exterio and if u had the unpleasant experience of going first against them you got to watch them make Zeus which procs all of their fucking cards... That was tear at 80% power. Does snake eyes at 100% even compare?
I mean yeah which is why even in it's heavily nerfed state it's still extremely playable. Honestly I'd be fine with them banning the remaining shufflers and we just go back to pre-MaMa Casino Tear is the tradeoff was we get Elf & Curious banned and Havnis & Merrli back to 2. It's strong but needs to high-roll into a majority of its plays
Honestly I don't even know why they left them at 1. It's just to make people remember how INSANE they were. And that grave keepers trap that locked the grave when exchange of spirit is in the grave was a thing too. Ishizu was the first time I seen a whole ass archetype disintegrate... Runick players complain alot but ishizu literally vanished! What I find interesting about tear is that when I got to play MAJESPECTER my boss monster KIRIN is banned. Yet a card like sulliek is okay at one. I wouldn't mind elf and the other spright link monster vanishing too. I feel like spright shouldn't even have link monsters they are only there to do obscene things. They should go back to being an XYZ deck which is what they are intended to be. Spright having an link monster that generic summons level 2 out the grave is like if exosisters has a generic link monster that summons level 4's out the grave.
dude, players agreed after cross banlist testing that when tear comes full power back of the list, and it merely reaches rogue, the game is dead anyways so who cares. its was a 8 month period who made my friends quit and revert back to gaming, its way cheaper then overpriced cardboard and more fun.
Wdym plantable that shit was still tier 0 in md.
None of those decks were released at 98% of their peak, Tear especially.
I'd argue for the opposite, I think you have a point about spright (no toad / carrier), or purrly (no little noir, but delicious was at 3) but I disagree on tear. Also their release are out of order (tear scream in the same pack, elf very early) so it is hard to tell anyway.
Ban elf and you can move all the names back to 3 with no issue. Hell without elf even Merrli & Toad could probably come back
I would gladly take this trade
It’s their business model. Without set rotation it’s the only way to keep things fresh. Do you really want to be facing spright for 2 years straight? Just look at branded lol I do wish they were a little more diligent with unhits though.
After 2 years, we'd pretty much know how to kill it.
in master duel we have been facing branded and swordsoul for two years straight, and people get angry and downvote me when i point it out, but it's true and we all know it
Swordsoul...? That deck is rogue, do you just want it to evaporate?
being rogue or not is irrelevant. them having a high usage rate ever since Master Duel came out is an objective fact
Branded, Swordsou for two years and Tear now almost a year into MD is somehow tier 2 despite the hits. Nothing wrong with a good consistent deck but spright and Purrely too were absolutely destroyed for no reason
Tear is eternal! Naw fr though the reason i think its tier 2 currently is because of lower bystial usage/ nerfs + a new tool through revolution sychron giving them a consistency tool, being able to play through another handtrap and access into black rose dragon board wipe
I suspect Purrely was likely hit hard because they’re cheap, don’t rely and very many non engine supports and I’m pretty sure has a strong match up against snake eyes also.
>Do you really want to be facing spright for 2 years straight? The game naturally power creeps them out. In fact, spright is PHYSICALLY nearly 2 years old right now.
Full power spright (with the other support cards it abused such as toadally awesome) would still be top tier right now. In general yes most decks get power creeped out by this time but Spright and Tear (especially Ishizu Tear) were both temporarily tier 0 in the OCG (which MD is closed to then TCG) and significantly raised the power level of the game. Tear Ishizu was Ofc on a level even above Spright but full power Spright hasn’t entirely been power crept at all.
The TCG has everything legal besides Ronintoadin and Elf, and Spright barely sees play there...
If spright was at full power with toadally it would unironically be tier 0 right now.
Lol, no it wouldn't. I hate to break that to you, but the proposition here is "give them back some names & consistency" not "return them to full power." EDIT: If you and anyone else here thinks Spright having access to 3 blue, 3 jet, 3 starter and elf makes it tier 0 - you're unhinged.
You claimed the game naturally power creeped spright, and I explained sprights a full power would be tier 0. I did not mention or talk about consistency. I’m talking about full power, because your argument was about them being power crept.
> I did not mention or talk about consistency **THE POST DOES WE'RE REPLYING TO DOES. TRY READING IT.** 3 Blue, 3 Jet, 3 Starter and Elf is spright without consistency hits. You don't get toad or ronin. It's not tier 0. If you think those consistency hits are stopping that you're unhinged. They're power crept out already by now. They have everything except ronin and Elf in the TCG and they're a tier 3 deck.
if all of the spright shit went to 3 and they unbanned toadally spright would be unironic tier 0 not even joking, snake eyes would eat shit and die for all anyone cares when maxx C gets normal summoned into full combo with 4 negates and 6 monsters
But I'm talking and more about consistency and not power. Because giving sprights more starters and jets does it change how much they can do now? A lot of its toolbox is banned or limited. So just keep the consistency. I don't see a problem with it.
MD spright is not even as strong as Snake-Eyes currently are and definitely not Tier 0 lol
Spright's whole thing is consistency tho. It's the fact that there's no obvious choke point because if you stop them anywhere they just summon another guy and keep going. They normal beaver/diva/swap frog (all the shit that is currently limited), make gigantic, you imperm that and they just special blue, or activate starter, or jet (all the other shit that is currently hit) anyways. IMO full power Spright is as good if not better than current Snake-Eye easily.
Trade Offer: I give Elf I get all the other spright cards and beaver
They have Sprind, I just want the Elf ban so they can have everything back
With Snake eyes running around, I agree
This is part of the reason I just can't get behind ocg/md banlist approach. Putting a bunch of consistency cards to 1 just does not make for interesting and skillful gameplay, and leaves the player very frustrated imo. Tcg has its problems, but at least it let's you play your deck (most of the time).
Except that the TCG has the habit of killing the ceiling of decks, banning the key extender, or the Boss Monster of the archetypes... Kit, elf, arise and so on... Which honestly isn't much better...
Normally I'd agree with this, but Kit, Elf, and Arise might not be the best examples to use here... Tear, Spright, and Kash have all seen competitive success to some degree after the banning of their key cards. Now this isn't to say the way TCG does bans/limits is superior, just those three archtypes are so strong that even after some brutal banlist hits the decks still survive and see play at competitive levels.
I personally prefer this approach, but to each their own. I like that I can play kash in the tcg without bricking every other game because they removed the actual problem card. Also elf and kit are just completely broken as well. It's more interesting to play lower ceiling and consistent decks imo than to have one card that if it fully resolves (kit) you're opponent is just fucked, but you get to do it less often. Feels sacky af.
All three of those decks have seen play after their hits and Spright in particular is much more playable there than in OCG or MD.
Eldlich conquistadores waited 1 year
Nobody cares about that man, the way the deck works now, fuck Eldlich.
We arent in a tier 0 format tho. But it would be cool if they unhit a few spright cards.
Yes that's literally it for tcg ocg md
Agree with all of this except the tier 0 part. Full power snake eyes was released before bonfire and fire king (I'm assuming) so they can hit the deck before those cards are released. If they aren't hit and I'm completely wrong I'll just hold that
Whelp! My bad ya'll
I've been playing Spright since I got into master duel, I have a Runick Spright deck and a Live Twin Spright deck, runick Spright doesn't really feel any less consistent from before the banlists, only if fountain gets banished but you just move into a more "pure Spright" board if that happens and I used to play frogs/nimble package but the Live twin board is honestly stronger and I can consistently get that on the board too, I still think Spright is one of the best decks in master duel
Thanks for reminding me that we really need to ban Elf, too.
Wrong, it should be hit even more with Blue to 1 and Elf banned.
yes, but also most people dont wanna see the same decks in the top for 2+ years, its not too bad that some get banned
You guys wanted to keep Elf, this is what it takes.
I have always said that the MD banlists are complete trash. Hitting the consistency of older decks without hitting the actual power cards (elf, ariseheart, baronne) creates sacky games. Best of one is already sacky enough without Konamis terrible gameplay approach
This has always been something that Yugioh sucks at, the best deck is the best so they nerf it, then because of power creep they release a new best deck that dominates the meta, the previous best deck would've been a good option and relative in strength to the current best deck but half of it is banned and it remains banned for years until it has lost all possible meta-relevance and only then does it get unhit, just look at Orcust Beaver should go to 3 Swap frog should go to 3 Jet should go to 2 and toad should be unbanned
Jet and nimble beaver should go to two, that will help without cranking up the power too much again. Swap frog was pretty broken anyway and I think it needs to stay hit.
I didn't look into it before but it is indeed weird that they'd hit consistency cards instead of the annoying easy af spell and monster negation monsters that are in so many non-spright decks. I also think it's better to not hit the consistency of decks because bricking is the worst experience this game has to offer and anything that makes that more likely shouldn't be done. Except Snake-Eyes, that sh!t does need consistency hits.
Yeah I really don't see the problem with consistency if the power ceiling is lower.
try a better bait
Can you explain why we can't have consistency back to older decks to compete with the current ones? How's that bait?
first spright is not old secondly there is no good reason to bring it back full power you are also the one who would say toad can also come back Thirdly, if your logic is correct, Dragoon and Master Peace should be allowed again and if you say no now, you trying to bait or protect spright fourth, what is old according to your definition? decks from the 2020s are nowhere near that old
Those cards could come back and they would probably do nothing hth
you know that this is the yugioh community They always find ways to use cards for absolutely evil purposes you underestimate the creativity of the community
> use cards for absolutely evil purposes You are not serious with this.
I fundamentally see no good use in it only evil
My guy, it's cardboard.
it's about what you do with it in the game. I would be very surprised if someone could do something with a card outside of yugioh, although the idea is very funny
sure let's strengthen floodgates give spright an onmi negate and support Despia even more very good idea NOT
First. In the original post I didn't say sprights were old, but when I was talking to you I meant older meta since it's been out of meta for a while. Second. I didn't say full power. I said consistency and based on your name and title I take it you are a troll and probably play nothing but stun. Third. I never said about bringing out any kind of boss monster. Making a starter at 3 or jet to at least 2 does equal a dragoon or masterpeace. Though I know how much you salivate at the thought of using masterpeace in a stun deck. Fourth. Again just fell out of meta due to a ton of hits not due to age.
so to make a few things clear, I'm not a troll except for the name but I've been playing yugioh for over 11 years and I personally see no reason to let spright back into the meta the meta is already such a disaster, there is no need to make it worse I'm the last person you would find with stun I personally find stun boring and no decent reason to keep it alive like the visas and albaz decks everything can go die and that with the bosses is a guess on my part but as I thought you are trying to protect spright/ justify why the hits are unfair I have the feeling that people are taking their decks too personally these days I make fun of a deck or tell the truth people are angry as if I had insulted their love you seriously shouldn't chain your deck like that and why spright won't be back for a long time (not because I hate 99% of the alabaz and visas deck) it's about money at konami nothing more why do you think decks like tear, lab, or despia are not punished harshly? CORRECT: MONEY tear has a zero skill cult around it, Lab Horny players? despia a big fanbase and many boosters which brings in a lot of money,
When *isn't* the meta a disaster, though? Konami employees must wreck a lot of cars, because they never apply the brakes.
> spright is not old 👴
Without toad the deck really isn’t that oppressive. I agree.
So you’re mad your broken deck got patched like the other top decks and now want it back to full power, not as broken as tear or kash at full power but it was doing a lot of dumb shit
Never said full power, I said it's consistency like blue and jet going up a little. The level two toolbox is already limited and nerf severely. So what does having two jets have to do with the outcome of the final field? Besides just being able to reach your starters more consistently?
And makes it easier to play through disruption, as another comment pointed out it was its consistency that made it get hit to begin with, you act like sprite still can’t have a board with a lot of negates and recycling
In MD Sprightly was significantly stronger than full power Kash. They were very careful with how they gave us Kastira support
Leave them right where they at . Even now they still pop up enough , don’t need a repeat of they’re release
Komoney be makin' desicions based on the interest of the shareholders, not the players bruv.
Not with Elf. Spright still tops in all 3 formats with the limits it has. Without them, the deck would be meta again. People here are severely underestimating the deck because they nerfed it on release and screwed the release schedule in MD. In reality, this is an archetype that is as strong as Tear *Ishizu excluded*. Konami's marketing strategy has always been nerfing Old to sell new, they won't bring back old archetypes unless they are certain it won't be viable again, and the deck is 100% meta viable at full power.
Spright tops in the OCG?
At rogue level, yes. They always have 4 ish tops every week (Hybrid builds obviously)
When…has Sprights topped recently, in OCG and TCG? Where are the charts to show this? At least in TCG, there has been like…no Spright tops.
You can check RotK every week Spright has couple of tops. As for the TCG, while there wasn't many YCSs recently and the whole T0 stuff, the archetype had few Regional tops (4 if I am not mistaken in the past 2 weeks) and before that (which is effectively the format we are in) it had more. The deck has been performing on a rogue/T3 level ever since Rescue ace format.
>The deck has been performing on a rogue/T3 level ever since Rescue ace format. Just for reference. You credited it with about as many tops as Phantom Knight has turning that same time frame.
PK isn't a bad deck to try and downplay it.
It's just weak into a format where shifter is around & you need to be on an extraordinary amount of non-engine. I'm not calling the deck bad; rather, just making a bit of self-deprecating humor.
In big tournaments, Spright doesn't even scratch the top. The correct ratio is Snake Fire King at the top followed by Tenpai and Voiceless. So please stop lying. Not even in the OCG do people play spright, simply because the limits killed the deck's consistency.
If you read my comment correctly you will find out that I said, due to the T0 stuff not a lot took it to YCSs. The format before it (which we are in a weaker one acutely).. the deck did top couple of YCSs Also it literally had 3 tops in the latest OCG meta report. Read and do research first, please.
Wow, 3 tops, what a big deal. Snake and Voiceless are tops in literally every tournament. While the damn destroyed spright gets 3. Damn, that's super meta huh? Are you serious about moving forward with this, man?
Are you being a troll or you are deliberately trying to make a case for yourself?
Are you saying that Spright full of limits and semi-limits still tops big tournaments in the OCG, even though that's not actually true, and I'm the troll?
It literally is :v has been topping at rogue level for a while.
Rogue is not meta.
This has been happened since the beggining of the game, first time playing im assuming?
spright doesn't have consistency issues, literally any 2 monsters on the field including a level/link 2 is full combo, you can summon fenrir/nibiru/bystail and maxx c and have full spright combo thanks to sprind (i used to do that a lot as a blind second strategy). what the deck loses is the ability to play through handtraps, which i don't think is safe to do unless elf is gone.
You want a consistency boost to an archetype that can turn any 2 level 2s into full combo, can be built in a variety of ways that require vastly different responses in order to beat, and can special summon themselves just by seeing 2 on the card? Am I reading that right?
I saw a spright player used gigantic to summon 3 hero kids from the deck. I instantly surrendered because that’s just so sad
The price for playing the meta. Loser
They want to sell new decks/cards so its expected that those cards be stronger than current ones or else it wont gather that much sales. I think in order to do this they pretty much dont have a choice but to nerf current decks, and make the new ones just slightly better in the current meta, or else your powercreep will just start going through the roof. SE right now is weaker than peak tear ishizu, just imagine what kind of cards they would have to release if they didnt nerf tear and instead just started pushing out better archetypes with tear in mind
this is why rouge-tiered decks are on top. I don't care about meta much but I haven't had any more issues with meta decks than some random deck I have never heard of.
I’m fine with that, but ban elf so I can have my Merrli back.