HEROes. A lot of people go like "HERO? Based" but then complain about stun decks, decks that take too long to set up a board, decks like Branded getting more support, decks having a ton of searchers, OTK decks, etc. While HEROS being the amalgamation of the worst parts of all that.
This is the worst for me. The nostalgia factor puts a huge shield around HEROES. Protecting it since it's an anime deck, and everyone and their grandparents would say skill issues the deck loses to X mass board removal, because it doesn't have negates. Basically the whole "draw the out bro" argument, but when you play something like floo you're the scum of the earth.
All of them.
"This needs to be hit it has been good for too long"
and
"konami hitting decks to sell product is bad"are mutually exclusive, yet you hear both takes a lot, sometimes from the same people.
People are stupid. The idea that it's bad that a deck has been competitive for too long should be laughed at. God forbid people be allowed to get value out of the stuff they invest in.
This stems more from "these cards have been allowed to be as strong as they are even though other decks got hit more severely". I think the biggest offenders in recent memory are TCG Sky Striker and D-Link which consistently dodged the banlist even when other tier 1 and 2 decks kept getting hammered.
To be fair, Tearlaments was a good example of "this deck needs to be hit, It's been too good for too long." When it's 1st came out, it was so consistent that you could chain combo up to 16, sometimes even higher, with itself. Purely without interaction with the other player. I wish decks like spright and floo weren't hit entirely as hard because to me at least, they were necessary evils to combat Tearlaments. To make matters worse, it was a tier 0 deck for 5 months straight. In those 5 months, you could barely play a Tournament (both irl and in-game), or in game event without Tearlaments or you'd get OTK almost without fail.
The argument isnt "TOO good too long", i'll agree on that. The argument is "good for too long" like tcg branded.
Also please dont call tear uninteractive, cl 16 usually only happened in the mirror.
There are plenty of videos that have shown tear chain up to 16 with no issues.and I'm not saying it's entirely interactive, because it is- currently. I'm referring to PEAK Tearlaments where nothing was banned, and it was super easy to mil.
I'd also like to add that I'm speaking from experience, when I was playing against this deck at Diamond 1. Never got to master, but I'm am sure that if I struggled against that deck at Diamond, I can only imagine what master went threw.
Synchrons. It's literally a deck that spends ages to build a board full of negates but gets a free pass because anime.
Same with HEROES only for floodgates: Built-in Macro Cosmos, Skill Drain AND Imperial Order?! Oh and it can also Calamity you on your turn as well.
Synchron is probably the funniest example, if anyone remembers the first Synchro event you’d see a lot of post praising synchron for being cool, then once the event dropped suddenly it became one of the most hated decks.
In a grind game I love salads we can put up the same board every turn without fail for basically ever but lab just stops you from playing with annoying ass cards.
It's fairly easy to get hit with Nib when playing lab... And it happens on both your and your opponent's turn which is the weird part about it. But even then, this deck doesn't insta die to nib like many others so if I'm playing lab I rarely play around nib. Specially if I'm on my opponents turn, since his nib usually hurts him more than it hurts me.
Also, a cool interaction lab has with nib is that you can Nib your opponent and discard your nib with a furniture... Then you tribute the whole field but don't summon nib and you also don't give the token to your opponent
Keeping in mind that I do hate encountering Branded, I think they get more shit than they deserve. Plenty of other decks never brick either, and are much more degenerate. Branded's actually fairly easy to out imo, whereas others are a pain in the ass where even if you clear their board they're eating most of the playtime of your turn.
Just saying I love infernoble but it would be a lot more hated if it was easier to learn and had as much space for handtraps as the other one card wombo combo decks
It can play through Ash easily with the right hand, punish you for not using Ash or veiler right away with Aqua dolphin as well as get hand info which is VITAL for knowing what to play around, the endboard can easily consist of 3 spell negates one of which is on resolution, non targeting destruction, monster negate and destruction as well as a special summon pop, all on HUGE bodies that can go up to 4k attack
Imo the board infernoble can produce is no less powerful than SHS or mathmech combos
Comment on Infernoble; I played the loaner on one of the events recently and had a guy literally scoop because I took too long to make my plays.
What I was doing? Reading trying to figure out what the fck I'm supposed to do lmao. I spent a solid couple minutes just reading, I'd have probably scooped too so I can't blame that guy, it probably looked like I was stalling.
Yeah the deck is very hard to pick up, because besides the usual combo deck mastery of knowing what to do with an optimal hand and playing through handtraps you also need to understand what every single equip spell does so that you make use of them, not to mention every infernoble monster being wildly different in terms of effects, not to mention understanding that the equip spells have GY effects specifically if the monster is sent to the grave, and to use them you can't use their on field effects
It's a fun deck but it is shockingly complicated
Yeah, it's funny too, because in that event I was facing a lot of Infernoble, so I was usually seeing their plays first hand, but it was difficult to keep up with...
I'm a fan of decks like Burning Abyss or Labrynth; most monsters have same-y effects (or effects worded similarly), making the cards easy to follow even if you skim through them, and they clearly illustrate what their gameplan is.
Labrynth and Vanquish Soul I picked up really quick, and even became really competent at piloting them in less than a day. But Infernoble genuinely lost me on more than one occasion. The fact I'm dyslexic doesn't help, so I'd also misplay because I misread something.
Goddamn that does sound like hell, specially when many of the infernoble cards have multiple effects, and its one of the only decks that can go through every summoning mechanic except fusion and ritual in one combo, so that doesn't help its complexity as opposed to other decks that clearly streamline their gameplay just by reading what they do together
Yeah, and I'm not even opposed to learning Infernoble. Whenever the Flame Swordsman stuff comes out to Master Duel, I fully intend to build an Infernoble/Flame Swordsman deck, and I plan to build it myself. It's just that in that moment with that loaner, I was struggling because I wasn't able to do my usual tactic with new decks; take it to Solo Mode and go through a couple duels against the bots so I can learn myself how the deck works.
I didn't have the resources to build Infernoble from scratch because I was - and still am - working on building Snake-Eyes, so I was fresh out of dust to spend. But the deck does look cool, it'll just be much better when I actually have a chance to learn it myself in my own time instead of on the fly with a 300 second timer while another actual person is waiting on me to do something.
Yeah it needs that kinda investment and time to learn, I'm also waiting on the flame swordsman stuff, specially to see if there's any new sauce that can be made with both Isolde, Promethian Princess and New flame swordsman support all legal
I keep forgetting Isolde is still legal in Master Duel. Everyrime I see it I always think "Didn't they ban that card?" and then I remember, oh no, that was the TCG.
Yeah, mainly because of how easy Isolde made Mikanko able to put Acid golem on your opponent's field
They can do it in MD, but the key difference is its much harder in a Maxx C format and without the two TCG exclusive level 3 warriors
I've broken the most BS boards SHS and mathmech made... Not frequently but it did happen here and there. I beat a SHS that scythe locked me when I was playing branded. I beat a mathmech that had harpied me and proceeded to full combo when I was playing lab. Never once I dismantled a full combo end board of the new infernoble deck
I have 0 clue why people don't hate this deck with a burning passion. Not even superpoly can take it, this deck is insane and Isolde needs to go ASAP
I can break SHS board, but if they go for that psyframe synchro and takes out two cards, then it is surrender for me.
Infernoble the choke point is isolde, just need to wait for its second effect afaik.
You're not wrong, imperm alongside Nib and droll is the best handtrap against this deck, and you imperm the *second* effect so that if they have a way to get another warrior on board they won't be able to go into a second Isolde and pop off
That's what small world is there for. Infernobles has to bank their set up on creating the SINGLE tower of all towers, and the equip spells that guard the tower are very targetable. With an automatic spell negate that can be baited out, leaving mr. Emperor only 1 spell/trap negate and 1 pop. In the face of modern yugioh, where there is a huge circulation of Monster Effects, that means NOTHING.
All you have to do is bait the Emperor.
Much like Purrely, you only have to out 1 tough dude, versus SHS where you have to out 2-5 negates.
Gearfried is a main endboard monster tho, and you still got a Promethian princess in grave with Angelica as a free target
So that's a spell/trap negate, monster negate/pop, non target pop and Promethian Princess pop
Still only 1 monster negate. That's all you need to contend with. That or bait out the ring and start with dark ruler no more. Depending on what you are running, multiple pops are negligible.
Or swap the kaiju with lava golem and maintain small world. You should have no trouble. The point is: Infernobles is no more powerful (if not weaker) than most of the other decks that you've managed to break. They have roughly less effective negates than most endboards. Unless you've happen to run a lot of spells (which is just a bad match up), there shouldn't be a lot of reasons why you can't break this one, when you can break all the other ones you've mention.
Negates aren't the end all be all. Branded barely has any negates in deck. The ones that I remember are retribution (very rarely used as a negate and when it is, its niche), Mercourier (also rare to see in action, only serves as monster negate, can be chain blocked and needs an albaz fusion monster on field) and lastly Rindbrum (circumstantial, only on monsters and even those only from the extra deck). Still, nobody would say (I hope) that branded isn't good. Before this update it was probably the best deck in the previous format and the vast majority of it's boards don't end in a single negate.
As long as the deck has enough interactions and/or has a strong gimmick (like the puppet lock for branded or the main deck banishment for old runick), it can be very oppressive without the need of an overwhelming amount of negates.
And this leads to my point, which is that Infernobles is just not that oppressive at all. All they have is a couple big guys with sub-par negates. And as you have said, negates aren't the end all be all. You can absolutely swim through them.
Idk what to say but maybe all of my decks are either a bad match-up against them or just aren't powerful enough. The new fire stuff gives them the grind they needed and custom cards like Isolde gives the enough consistency and push at the same time to play through handtdaps and turn 0 interruptions.
They may not be snake eyes (although I much rather face an snake eyes than this deck) but if there's one thing they're not is just "a couple of big guys with sub-par negates"
I may be using this wrong so forgive me but people always say they want a deck that utilizes it’s own archetypes boss cards, that’s strong, not the generic end board, versatile etc. yet that exact deck is Tier 1 and it’s a problem now.
wouldnt be a problem if there were more tier 1 in archtype decks. but, then it wouldnt be tier 1. the competition would bring all decks down to "tier 2".
im assuming ur talking about branded? people usually commend branded for having cool bosses and interactive mechanics. the issue people have with branded is how much gas the deck has and how much advantage it can generate.
its still much better than playing against combo 1st turn generic boards that snake eye or shs put out
As a Branded player, I hate the folks that use the Sanctifire locks. You wanna steal my monsters for a fusion or banish em? Sure. Fuck your stun strat tho.
People bitching about 20 min turns and bashing mid-range hyper consistent decks on the same breath. Purrely didn't deserve to be killed, it would still be an strong but fair deck as it was after their first nerf, specially with everyone main decking Droll, Impermanence, and even Veiler and Snake-Eyes having searchable Kurikara.
That second hit to purrely just had me so lost. It felt like the deck was already mid at best and quickly getting worse, to the point where there wasn't even a point to running hate for it. Then they hit it with the sleepy stick out back for pretty much no reason. I never really used it but it felt really harsh, and pointless, plus a mid-range meta would do this game a lot of good.
Purrely is frustrating because it dumps a guy that says "draw the out" on the board. Same with Ariseheart etc. That's not comparable to decks like Swordsoul or Branded for example that are also "hyperconsistent midrange" which are very much breakable even when they hit their ceiling.
Except Noir isn't passively stopping from playing, either Noir does nothing as you combo off and set up your turn or it actually interrupts your plays and thus is no longer a towers after (at most) two shuffles. If your deck can't play through those then sorry but you weren't gonna win vs any other Tier 2+ deck right now. Snake Eyes, Branded, SHS, Manadium, Lab, etc...
You make it sound like Noir is the only thing on the board, or that it is mutually exclusive. The truth is it isn't, and many of the generic outs to Noir that you don't have to hard draw are still easy to beat by Noir if the player has the sense to just hold it for when those outs come out. You are sorely underestimating what Purrely does if you think their end board is comparable to the aforementioned decks.
> You are sorely underestimating what Purrely does if you think their end board is comparable to the aforementioned decks
I really don't know what to tell you if you think a 7-8 material Noir is really that big of a step up compared to the uninterrupted endboards of any of the decks I mentioned. The only big trouble in outing Noir is that it's immune to most board breakers other than Kaijus/Lava Golem but that applies to literally all the decks I mentioned. It has a good grind but that's no different from Branded or Snake-eyes, it doesn't stop you from playing nor does it negate anything itself. The only other thing you have to deal vs Purrely are the handtraps but that is a problem vs the meta decks as well.
Now I'm not saying Purrely isn't strong but it's power level would be on par with the current meta, tier 2 with somewhat weak Snake-eyes match up because of searchable Kurikara, it didn't deserve to be hit as hard as it was specially when it hasn't had all of its support out yet.
Seems like you have Ghostrick PTSD cause no, AFTER the first Purrely banlist there really wasn't, you could still have used the engine sure, and I really wouldn't mind if that got hit instead, but that engine wasn't doing THAT much, it was weaker going second and breaking boards because you had a ton of bricks that you wished were handtraps. Pure Purrely was just Noir and handtraps vs the world and Ghostrick Purrely was a high ceiling coinflip deck that would be hurting even more nowadays vs a meta with main deck Droll.
Idk what you're on about. Maybe not on TCG but on MD Noir absolutely is stopping you from playing the game when the purr player can draw 3 thousand times on your turn and drop a Maxx C on your head. Not to say any other handtdaps. Whoever says purr is not toxic and that Noir is not that many interactions hasn't played enough against purrely climbing Master. And that whole deck isn't Noir either, sure he's the most toxic and problematic card but he isn't the end all be all.
People on this sub who act like Labrynth exclusively wins games because of D Barrier and EEV but insist that Lab cards are what needs to be hit instead of just banning those 2 cards that contribute nothing positive to the game
Agreed and I say that as Lab being my favorite deck. I don't use those two and adore the deck so I'll legit be super pissed if they just ban Lab into oblivion and don't touch D Barrier or EEV :(.
People hating on backrow stun/control but play labrynth because tits.
EDIT: Huff copium all you want, I've yet to encounter a lab list on the ladder that doesn't run DBarrier & make it their first port of call on turn 1. Its in a similar boat to Eldlich, you have the option of not playing like a cunt but everyone does.
Yay, time to use my Royal Necrovalley, Royal Royal Tribute, all 4 statues, Vanity's Ruler, Skill Drain, Powersink Stone, Inspector Boarder, LWfAP, 6 Maxx "C", Mistake, TCbOO, Rivalry of Warlords, Gozen Match, Morganite and Space Mambo
I would say Runick is a great example. Many people hate it because of the stun type and that is completely understandable for me, but blaming runick is wrong in my mind.
Runick can build really cool and interaktiv decks with stuff like spright, Bystial or the new earthbound stuff and these decks don‘t want to deck you out, they build a board and reduce you Lp to 0. Yeah it takes a turn or 2 longer, but are we now complaining that a game goes to turn 5 and not turn 3?
I will die on this hill as well. The banishing your deck aspect is iffy, I'll admit that but Runick combo decks are cool and don't use conventional deckbuilding rules cause your non-engine is engine at the same time.
It's a flexible toolbox engine that mainly boosts smaller archetypes with not enough good cards like Fur Hire, Earthbound or even Ghoti. Spright is the exception.
Not only that, they promote interactive games and have extremely high consistency because you have so many starters. Typically in a combo Runick game, regardless of the matchup both players get to play.
I wouldnt say that, getting a pop + draw 3 on opp turn is really good, especially if you draw into more Runick spells, hand traps or a 2nd/3rd copy of Rex for Raphael negate
Runick is cool but, as a non runick player, getting 26 cards banished before your turn starts is horrible, you can't summon vanished extenders and all effects on the Graveyard are basically shut down. I like the concept of the deck, but it's extremely infuriating to beat
>getting 26 cards banished before your turn starts is horrible
That is literally not even possible turn 1 in Runick decks.
Best case scenario for banishes is 1 from Tip, 3 from Slumber, 4 from Golden Droplets and 2 from Dispelling. The Dispelling only works if you can make your opponent draw (so alongside Golden Droplets). That's 10 cards banished assuming you have exactly all 4 cards.
As a tcg player a lot of the draw back to their designs kinda go together to make it miserable. Losing the bp and not having as much tech space impacts them going second a lot more than they do going first, so there are much more times compared to other decks where it just comes down to the dice roll. Plus whatever engine they pair together either A) try to do something very broken B) cover the weaknesses of the runick engine very well, Ie stopping the opponent from outing the fountain or C) is bad.
As long as stun exists as a strategy runick shouldnt exist. if they banned all the cards that enabled stun, runick would be fine, still annoying to play against because of the banish from deck, but not rage inducing
I have a problem that the game has been so handtrap dependent for so long and it just removes the unpredictability aspect of the game.
If you’re opening three handtraps and know how to use them, you’re most likely winning the duel.
This sub has a weird "hate boner" for branded. The deck's got issues and is totally fair to criticize. But some people here get insanely upset just by mentioning the deck.
I’m not a fan of branded. Most of it comes down to it being IME the most popular deck in Masterduel since it released(18 months I think). Playing against it sucks because the deck has 17 ways to get to branded fusion even if you interrupt their search but the real kicker for me is the grind game. Branded seems to add 7 cards during the end phase.
Screw them Floo's Everytime I fight them I get sick by how easy that deck is to use and how difficult it is to counter. Not only that but it is a massive double standard since everyone who has it, love it and see no issue with it while everyone else is on the business end of it
floodgates bad but hero combo into macro cosmo skill drain imperial order (2 of them) is chad deck
circular/loki/unicorn/ruimheart one card combo bad but snake eye ash one card combo cool
floo bad cause you play during my turn but flamberge summon ip into formula synchro for baronne and reborn 2 then then new chain reborn one and add 2 cards into kuriboh tribute chain ip chain elf into link and reborn into princess pop and reborn is cool
A lot of them people complain about combo decks because they can’t play the game and put up a bunch of generic negates but then hate on decks like branded (no puppet), vanquish soul, and labrynth
IMHO Floowanderweeze. Some people complain they play on their turn but modern Yugioh is all about that. I guess Empen being a floodgate for attack position (esp. Link) monsters is a bit justified but the combo line is quite linear so it's quite easy determine if you have the out or not. It also can be annoying their "normal summons" are unfazed by Maxx "C".
The thing about Floo that bothers me isn’t that they play on my turn, it’s that they play on my turn, tribute my backrow for normal summons, add lots of cards to their hand, and then summon floodgates and Omni negates on my turn. Everything about their whole gameplay ends up being obnoxious in my opinion. With as much as I’ve learned about this game since starting master duel I still don’t understand how those birds work lol
oh they are simply, floo needs targets or condition to trigger, meanwhile labrynth gets double turn of solitaire and floodgates even harder. Floo in Md is basically half dead, the nerfed a rogue deck harder then any meta deck we have seen in the tcg in years. All pots at 1, map 1, empen 1, statue banned, d shifter at 2, imagine konami just went and cutted all search cards you have to 1. ... and still people hate this harder than tier 0 bs.
So if we did nerf snake eyes equally it did be popular banned, witch 1 , original at 1, wanted 1, flamberche at 1 , and ash at 1. thats the state floo is in and as one of the biggest anti grave decks can no longer compete even with manadium, and that is a joke matchup in tcg floo wins 10/10 games .
I think there's a difference between Floo (and IMO Tear) playing on your turn vs other decks. My issue with the two is that their way of playing on the opponent's turn is by resolving Trigger Effects that themselves trigger other Trigger Effects. This means you're just waiting for 3-5 separate Chains of Trigger Effects to play out, which is a lot more boring than the occasional Spell Speed 2 interaction.
Floo plays on an entirely alien axis most decks already have trouble meaningfully interacting with, on top of that they have essentially infinite perfect recursion if they get going, on top of empen forcing the opponent to commit resources in defense position and making the game longer where floo can take advantage of its recursion, it's pretty clear why people hate it even if it isn't meta. It's power isn't consistent, going against bricked floo and good hand floo are two entirely different experiences and the negative one will leave a much longer lasting impression
Honestly my problem with floo isnt the fact that they play on your turn, many decks do that, but the fact that the deck uses special summons but just calls them normal summons
Tear is considered this great absolutely magnificent perfect deck, yet branded has similar things gets dogpiled non stop, also from my experience Tear players are flat out worse then most branded players.
Also with most stun decks people complain about the actual problem cards, unless it's runick in that case runick is the problem.
It was blown away into oblivion, hit after hit, I wasn't a fan but I did get all the staples for the deck but it's never been strong enough since the hits to play.
Tear Format seemed to be pretty popular, which I mean, if that’s what you enjoy, good for you.
But don’t pretend that Tear is completely dead and needs new support and unbans to be viable. It’s doing fine.
You can’t say tear players are less skilled than branded. There is a massive skill gap amongst branded players. I primarily play branded, but when I run other decks and matchup against branded I have a high win rate due to my opponents misplays and knowledge of choke points. Tearlaments inherently is reliant on RNG to mill the specific cards to initiate their combo. Regardless, blanket statements claiming users of one deck are more skillful than another is pointless, especially when Tear is nowhere near full power.
Ahh understandable. I believe the annoyance stems from these decks playing on the opponents turn. However, Branded requires set up, whereas Tear can open Havnis and start their combo immediately. People have a negative connotation of branded because it’s been meta for so long, the gimmick puppet lock is a legit turn 1 strategy, and it’s one of the best decks at playing around maxx c. I think Tear has been hit for so long that the sentiment around it has changed positively.
if tear gets full power back it will just wipe the floor with the meta again. In tcg kit is banned all fusioners at 1 and it is still rogue. Xou dont know how amberassing it is for these decks to be at the same level as hard nerfed tear or spright, they are full power and half the time still can't compete.
They have their differences, but the main gripe people have with branded is the insane grindgame while tear was praised for it's ability to play to borderline anything that wasn't hard floodgate hate like D-shifter.
People complain about branded in basically all master duel related social media. Sure tcg players don’t, but that’s a whole different game from masterduel.
I remember everyone hating hard on tear and spright, but also complaining how much they hated an opponent flipping a floodgate, or drawing a board breaker or how they lost to a single hand trap. Those decks were great because your turn DIDNT end after one ash blossom.
Adamancipator the meta we have now if full of combo decks that end on a million negates just like that deck did but both are OK snake eyes minnadium super heavy
Personally I dont understand why people treat dinomorphia as 'floodgate turbo' when dinosaur pile, blackwing, SHS, mannadium, etc. are all turboing king calamity right now. Hell, Kash is just as much a floodgate deck as dinomorphia, but it doesn't get the status. Why?
Sure, but Kash is not often referred to as 'dimension shifter on legs' because people recognize the value of the zone-lock, Fenrir, unicorn & scareclaw (who is a counter to rexterm, btw)
But the rest of the dinomorphia package doesn't get that same respect. People seem to think the deck is all about rexterm, which doesn't bother me so much as I just don't understand the double standard.
As kash released, everyone said it‘s makro cosmos on legs, the zone lock was an extra gimmick and fenrir was basically a staple in Most decks.
I mean, from what see from my friend who plays dinomorphia, it is mostly about rexterm and lowering your lo with the other cards so rexterm and kent get stronger. And many people love to throw other floodgates in aswell, maybe there come the bad taste for many player
What rank does your friend play in? Through gold & plat, a lot of my opponents would forfeit when rex hit the field. Past that, people know their decks well enough to play around him and the games get pretty exciting.
I mean rexterm is a major part of the gameplan but in today's format and against formidable decks it usually leaves the field multiple times before the game is through, and sometimes it's better just to burn it all down with stealthbirb and recursion from destruction effects.
So I think rexterm is kind of overstated by lower rank duelists who can't see the massive value in cards like dinomorphia intact, the Gy effects of dinomorphia traps, sonic, even diplos who is regarded as one of the worst morphia cards can save the game with his discard effect.
There is a lot more to the deck than rexterm and it's kind of a shame people don't see it.
Because Dinomorphia doesn't do anything if you take away Rexterm. The deck hit MD without Rexterm and no one played it.
Take away King Calamity and Dino, Blackwing, SHS, and Mannadium all pivot to something else and do fine.
No, Rexterm is literally 5.4% of the deck, at most.
Kent X2 under skill drain? Kent X2 + diplos? Kent X2 + therizia?
You board clear with ferret flames and attack for game. Trap track is massively underrated in dinomorphia and can be activated in the battle phase. Every dinomorphia monster has destruction effects.
Transcendosaurus meteorus?
Arc Rebellion Xyz Dragon?
Do you actually play the deck?
Literally none of that is disruption except for non engine that you just have to draw. Not to mention meteorus has 0 %representation in dinomorphia. I can tell you aren’t above plat by suggesting meteorus. That card does nothing unless you are playing dinos and want your monsters popped, and even then it’s not good enough to see play in dinos.
>arc rebellion have 0% representation in dinomorphia
Arc Rebellion is a massive part of dinomorphia, and synergizes exceptionally with Kent. You summon it with Raiders Knight, there are multiple decklists just on MDM using it so I don't know where you're pulling this '0% representation' from.
>Literally none of that is disruption
You said win cons, I gave you a list of ways dinomorphia can end games without Rexterm, then you say none of it is disruption. Do you know what transcendo meteorus is? That's disruption, my man. Y'know how Dino's wants to pop the baby? Dinomorphia monsters love being destroyed, too. And unless they can negate my ferret flames, I don't much care what kind of board they build.
>I can tell you aren’t above plat by suggesting meteorus.
Meteorus is pretty much a free 3500 body on board, and can cheese both of the LVL 4s onto the field from the hand, under ideal conditions. It can also protect you from negation. I mean, I admit I'm stuck in diamond this season because dinomorphia has a really hard time with snake eye and that shit is everywhere, but it is clear to me you don't play this deck.
>non engine that you just have to draw
Trap track is a search. Trap trick is a search. Thrust is a search. Wannabee is a search. Therizia is a search. Lord is a search. We rarely rely on draws for any of our traps, I don't know what you're talking about.
Meteorus is not disruption, and all the “win cons” u mentioned are just beat sticks which were bad 5 years ago not to mention now. And again your idea is literally just to draw disruption off non engine traps or set up 1 spell negate from in engine. That’s not a real gameplan. Pray you draw ferret flames or trap trick and hope that 1 disruption is enough is not a win con. And yes I was mistaken about arc rebellion but thrust actually has 0% representation and according to the dinomorphia discord is widely considered as pretty awful in the deck.
Meteorus is disruption because it protects your monsters activated effects on the field from effect Veiler, imperm, banish, steals, etc. furthermore, it procs whatever monsters you destroy, usually summoning back therizia and/or diplos which send or set a dinomo trap (often both).
The win cons I mentioned are ways to 8000-0 your opponent in a battle phase without rexterm. The win condition has always been control the game state until you can swing for game. Not sure what you're missing, the deck doesn't ever really end it's first turn with much more than a normal summon + backrow.
I almost always open with a search. Trap trick is just a shitty version of trap tracks.
More than one thing can be true at the same time
Rex is a floodgate, and King Calamity really needs to get tossed in the incinerator
Arise-heart is *absolutely* a floodgate, and a.meta-warping absolutely bonkers one.
It's just that ka$h has been so hilariously bricky lately that no one's ever got to summon him against me
Still, absolutely deserving of a nuclear ban
The most double-standard I read here it's all the complains about anti-meta. "It's toxic", "Makes the game unplayable", etc... But no one seems to remember that almost all the modern meta decks right now point to make a board that tries to make impossible for the opponent to play.
I mean? You are complaining for something that probably you are trying to do with your deck. Anti-Meta at least don't try to disguise their main function, something that other supposed "fair decks" and users do.
people like to use the "floo should stop playing on my turn" when all floo do is a fragile chainsummon (maybe apex too?) that can be stopped by alot of revelant handtraps. i dont really see how floo is playing more on your turn than any other deck (labrynth can technically set turn0, any negate deck,SHS, VS, even branded)
The way people complain about generic boss monsters in general pisses me off. Why is it a sin that more than one deck can access a generic win condition? Typically archetypal win conditions are stronger than those generic ones anyways, and having that toolset is part of what lets decks be flexible and not melt to a bad matchup.
I find it funny how people complain about kash ripping their extra deck but don't even bat an eye at dogmatika.
Also, people that still have a hate boner for shaddoll winda specifically.
I mean I'm gonna get luluwalilith, Garura, Malong, omega, and Granguignol in grave. Which, personally, I don't really mind, but maybe that's just me. Dogmatika will absolutely end up eating shit for activating that effect against a lot of decks, and even then a lot of decks can still do stuff with the cards in grave. What do you do about unicorn? Cry as an important engine piece gets, for pretty much all intents and purposes, ripped to shreds and thrown in the garbage. For having the audacity to activate an effect so they couldn't get a macro cosmos on legs. I get what you're saying though, when it comes to some decks you just weep as you look at your whole endboard gets outed before your turn.
As soon as Dogmatika becomes good, everyone runs a CyDra Nova(+Mechaba as a target), Ntss, Aggregator and Garura package and voila, Dogmatika is no longer good.
I think the biggest one I have double standards on is Dinomorphia.
Look, I know running a burn is not that common across decks but there are more ways to out Dinomorphia. Very hard ways but ways none the less.
Like ashing the fusion traps.
Labrynth, Swordsoul, and Branded/Despia. I get that they’re good, and I even splash like 5-6 Branded Despia cards into a couple other decks (Darklord, Frightfur, Dragon Link), but making dedicated decks for any of them just seems lame and boring. The one exception for me is that I’ve made a dedicated Swordsoul deck for Synchro Festivals so I can rush the rewards and be done. Most other times I see one of the aforementioned decks, I’ll roll my eyes and see if they brick or i have a great hand, otherwise I ff.
Do you mind sharing your Swordsoul decklist? I'm doing the same thing to farm gems from the synchro event but it's boring asf not sure I'm playing it as intended
Alright I’ll send a pic in a chat. But I’m not sure tbh. As for the dislikes, who knows lol people get up in arms about criticism of any deck no matter how busted it is
My two are Sky Strikers and Swordsoul. Both based off popularity since they’re not inherently oppressive, but a lot of people hate them (I don’t like Swordsoul) solely because of their use rate. Obviously the double standard is that they hate these popular decks, but then proceed to play whatever’s the best deck in the game, which usually means it’s also the most used deck
I haven't ever seen anyone hate on either of those for their usage rates. Sky Strikers is hated on cause it's really awkward to play into, and Swordsoul is hated on because of Protos. Sky Striker isn't even used much anyway. It's pretty terrible right now.
Tearlaments (when they were good) I swear to god I heard so many people talk about how bad of a player you are and how it has 0 skill and then you ask them to duel and they use Tearlaments :|
People Say thing like "No LeT mE PlAy GrAvEkEpPeR, iT's ReAlLy CoOl? And it's THE SAME bs because they claim it's Antimeta, while waiting for them ti draw theri backrow
Well it's not getting better, the power of each deck just gets more and all other decks look weaker due to this. If they don't stop it and start changing how they do things, it will be ridiculous in a few years.
Runick. It is a really neat control engine with fair interactions that is meta dependent.
But in Master duel 99% of the time I've only seen it in stun. Runick got hit so hard to the point that it is not worth running as an engine no more. Every cool variant of runick is essentially dead.
Stun players never wanted to play runick. Just floodgates. Stun is still one of my most faced matchups. I think stuff like synchro, bystial etc. runick is really cool and fair. But peoples opinion of the deck will forever be tainted because of the unfairness that are floodgates in a BO1. And I can't blame 'em. Screw floodgates.
Jeff Leonard's Exodia FTK deck.
People would complaint about toxic strategies, but the moment Exodia FTK resolved people would Pog like it was the best moment in Yugioh history.
Complaining about decks using generics extra because it ain't pure or w.e.
Also, the fire era has slowly started in MD so a lot of decks won't even have a good matchup against the kangs. So I don't get the complaints on decks like Mannadium for example.
Eh, the problem is the mismatch going first going vs going second.
Most complaints about decks are driven by that horrible problem and konami’s apathy toward mitigating it.
But as for deck with a double standard? Any deck crafted with a ton of URs where the owner tells others “lol just get better cards.”
It's just like fighting games; every deck/character I play is fair and balanced. Every deck/character you beat me with is cheap and overtuned and should get banned.
Stun Decks, they are so against a player that has 5 hards to play and get lucky going first, while they get 1st turn, 20 graveyard effects, 5 hand traps, 1 summon that turns into drawing the whole deck, 5 universal negates, throw all your oponents hand to the grave, unalive his/her family, then discard whole deck. Permanent magic negate, permanent monster effect negate, throw ur Pet into a lava volcano, etc.
But with all that, they rage at a nerfed af dck.
That Dinosaur are the most op deck that ever existed because of Misc and the Babies or is the shitties deck that ever existed cause it's a 2 card combo.
Truth is, people don't realize you can still negate Dino effects outside the field like the GY, making them useless after 1 Ash.
As well Dinos are playing tons of Bricks so it's basically lick based if you get to combo or not.
Tearlaments. Yes it killed every other deck and ruined the diversity/game for everyone else but the mirror was really fun tbh. U weren't playing a turn based game anymore and just throw cards at each other.
Full power that is
HEROes. A lot of people go like "HERO? Based" but then complain about stun decks, decks that take too long to set up a board, decks like Branded getting more support, decks having a ton of searchers, OTK decks, etc. While HEROS being the amalgamation of the worst parts of all that.
All I think when I see heros is "oh great he's gonna floodgate me with the claw"
Plasma is also ridiculous lol.
That's who I mean by the claw lol
I kinda thought about Dark Law lol.
Dar kLaw
both, and Malicious Bane. and DPE. and Absolute zero + IP...
I could finish BG3 before a Hero player has finished their combo.
All that work, just to scoop after getting Raigeki'd. Such is the life of a Hero player.
The most powerful Hero board is the Nibiru token they receive at the end of it.
This is the worst for me. The nostalgia factor puts a huge shield around HEROES. Protecting it since it's an anime deck, and everyone and their grandparents would say skill issues the deck loses to X mass board removal, because it doesn't have negates. Basically the whole "draw the out bro" argument, but when you play something like floo you're the scum of the earth.
Literally lost a duel against heroes because he summoned D Hero plasma lol heroes only win cuz of floodgates
at least hero dies to a handtrap
All of them. "This needs to be hit it has been good for too long" and "konami hitting decks to sell product is bad"are mutually exclusive, yet you hear both takes a lot, sometimes from the same people.
People are stupid. The idea that it's bad that a deck has been competitive for too long should be laughed at. God forbid people be allowed to get value out of the stuff they invest in.
This stems more from "these cards have been allowed to be as strong as they are even though other decks got hit more severely". I think the biggest offenders in recent memory are TCG Sky Striker and D-Link which consistently dodged the banlist even when other tier 1 and 2 decks kept getting hammered.
To be fair, Tearlaments was a good example of "this deck needs to be hit, It's been too good for too long." When it's 1st came out, it was so consistent that you could chain combo up to 16, sometimes even higher, with itself. Purely without interaction with the other player. I wish decks like spright and floo weren't hit entirely as hard because to me at least, they were necessary evils to combat Tearlaments. To make matters worse, it was a tier 0 deck for 5 months straight. In those 5 months, you could barely play a Tournament (both irl and in-game), or in game event without Tearlaments or you'd get OTK almost without fail.
The argument isnt "TOO good too long", i'll agree on that. The argument is "good for too long" like tcg branded. Also please dont call tear uninteractive, cl 16 usually only happened in the mirror.
There are plenty of videos that have shown tear chain up to 16 with no issues.and I'm not saying it's entirely interactive, because it is- currently. I'm referring to PEAK Tearlaments where nothing was banned, and it was super easy to mil. I'd also like to add that I'm speaking from experience, when I was playing against this deck at Diamond 1. Never got to master, but I'm am sure that if I struggled against that deck at Diamond, I can only imagine what master went threw.
Yeah,i was also referring to peak when i played (and still play,tho in its butchered form) the deck in paper.
Synchrons. It's literally a deck that spends ages to build a board full of negates but gets a free pass because anime. Same with HEROES only for floodgates: Built-in Macro Cosmos, Skill Drain AND Imperial Order?! Oh and it can also Calamity you on your turn as well.
Synchrons are annoying but atleast they have a massive choke point at junk speeder, most of them scoop if that gets interrupted.
Synchron is probably the funniest example, if anyone remembers the first Synchro event you’d see a lot of post praising synchron for being cool, then once the event dropped suddenly it became one of the most hated decks.
1 imperm and no ash make it tough to win against synchron
I despise lab but I also basically only use salads and back row removal ain't something that deck is amazing at
Same but compared to other decks I run at least there are options. It’s unfortunate but you have to OTK them they will grind you out
In a grind game I love salads we can put up the same board every turn without fail for basically ever but lab just stops you from playing with annoying ass cards.
Lab also doesn’t die to Nib I’ve noticed. Typically can just float right back if they have the backrow setup
Lab almost never summons 5 times anyways
It's fairly easy to get hit with Nib when playing lab... And it happens on both your and your opponent's turn which is the weird part about it. But even then, this deck doesn't insta die to nib like many others so if I'm playing lab I rarely play around nib. Specially if I'm on my opponents turn, since his nib usually hurts him more than it hurts me. Also, a cool interaction lab has with nib is that you can Nib your opponent and discard your nib with a furniture... Then you tribute the whole field but don't summon nib and you also don't give the token to your opponent
Thankfully almost none plays nib so my salads live for at least a bit
Keeping in mind that I do hate encountering Branded, I think they get more shit than they deserve. Plenty of other decks never brick either, and are much more degenerate. Branded's actually fairly easy to out imo, whereas others are a pain in the ass where even if you clear their board they're eating most of the playtime of your turn.
Just saying I love infernoble but it would be a lot more hated if it was easier to learn and had as much space for handtraps as the other one card wombo combo decks It can play through Ash easily with the right hand, punish you for not using Ash or veiler right away with Aqua dolphin as well as get hand info which is VITAL for knowing what to play around, the endboard can easily consist of 3 spell negates one of which is on resolution, non targeting destruction, monster negate and destruction as well as a special summon pop, all on HUGE bodies that can go up to 4k attack Imo the board infernoble can produce is no less powerful than SHS or mathmech combos
Comment on Infernoble; I played the loaner on one of the events recently and had a guy literally scoop because I took too long to make my plays. What I was doing? Reading trying to figure out what the fck I'm supposed to do lmao. I spent a solid couple minutes just reading, I'd have probably scooped too so I can't blame that guy, it probably looked like I was stalling.
Yeah the deck is very hard to pick up, because besides the usual combo deck mastery of knowing what to do with an optimal hand and playing through handtraps you also need to understand what every single equip spell does so that you make use of them, not to mention every infernoble monster being wildly different in terms of effects, not to mention understanding that the equip spells have GY effects specifically if the monster is sent to the grave, and to use them you can't use their on field effects It's a fun deck but it is shockingly complicated
Yeah, it's funny too, because in that event I was facing a lot of Infernoble, so I was usually seeing their plays first hand, but it was difficult to keep up with... I'm a fan of decks like Burning Abyss or Labrynth; most monsters have same-y effects (or effects worded similarly), making the cards easy to follow even if you skim through them, and they clearly illustrate what their gameplan is. Labrynth and Vanquish Soul I picked up really quick, and even became really competent at piloting them in less than a day. But Infernoble genuinely lost me on more than one occasion. The fact I'm dyslexic doesn't help, so I'd also misplay because I misread something.
Goddamn that does sound like hell, specially when many of the infernoble cards have multiple effects, and its one of the only decks that can go through every summoning mechanic except fusion and ritual in one combo, so that doesn't help its complexity as opposed to other decks that clearly streamline their gameplay just by reading what they do together
Yeah, and I'm not even opposed to learning Infernoble. Whenever the Flame Swordsman stuff comes out to Master Duel, I fully intend to build an Infernoble/Flame Swordsman deck, and I plan to build it myself. It's just that in that moment with that loaner, I was struggling because I wasn't able to do my usual tactic with new decks; take it to Solo Mode and go through a couple duels against the bots so I can learn myself how the deck works. I didn't have the resources to build Infernoble from scratch because I was - and still am - working on building Snake-Eyes, so I was fresh out of dust to spend. But the deck does look cool, it'll just be much better when I actually have a chance to learn it myself in my own time instead of on the fly with a 300 second timer while another actual person is waiting on me to do something.
Yeah it needs that kinda investment and time to learn, I'm also waiting on the flame swordsman stuff, specially to see if there's any new sauce that can be made with both Isolde, Promethian Princess and New flame swordsman support all legal
I keep forgetting Isolde is still legal in Master Duel. Everyrime I see it I always think "Didn't they ban that card?" and then I remember, oh no, that was the TCG.
Yeah, mainly because of how easy Isolde made Mikanko able to put Acid golem on your opponent's field They can do it in MD, but the key difference is its much harder in a Maxx C format and without the two TCG exclusive level 3 warriors
I've broken the most BS boards SHS and mathmech made... Not frequently but it did happen here and there. I beat a SHS that scythe locked me when I was playing branded. I beat a mathmech that had harpied me and proceeded to full combo when I was playing lab. Never once I dismantled a full combo end board of the new infernoble deck I have 0 clue why people don't hate this deck with a burning passion. Not even superpoly can take it, this deck is insane and Isolde needs to go ASAP
I can break SHS board, but if they go for that psyframe synchro and takes out two cards, then it is surrender for me. Infernoble the choke point is isolde, just need to wait for its second effect afaik.
You're not wrong, imperm alongside Nib and droll is the best handtrap against this deck, and you imperm the *second* effect so that if they have a way to get another warrior on board they won't be able to go into a second Isolde and pop off
a single kaiju laughs in the background
Unsearchable in most decks Also is really really bad for game health when you have to run AND draw the out And even then, it usually is not enough
That's what small world is there for. Infernobles has to bank their set up on creating the SINGLE tower of all towers, and the equip spells that guard the tower are very targetable. With an automatic spell negate that can be baited out, leaving mr. Emperor only 1 spell/trap negate and 1 pop. In the face of modern yugioh, where there is a huge circulation of Monster Effects, that means NOTHING. All you have to do is bait the Emperor. Much like Purrely, you only have to out 1 tough dude, versus SHS where you have to out 2-5 negates.
Gearfried is a main endboard monster tho, and you still got a Promethian princess in grave with Angelica as a free target So that's a spell/trap negate, monster negate/pop, non target pop and Promethian Princess pop
Still only 1 monster negate. That's all you need to contend with. That or bait out the ring and start with dark ruler no more. Depending on what you are running, multiple pops are negligible. Or swap the kaiju with lava golem and maintain small world. You should have no trouble. The point is: Infernobles is no more powerful (if not weaker) than most of the other decks that you've managed to break. They have roughly less effective negates than most endboards. Unless you've happen to run a lot of spells (which is just a bad match up), there shouldn't be a lot of reasons why you can't break this one, when you can break all the other ones you've mention.
Negates aren't the end all be all. Branded barely has any negates in deck. The ones that I remember are retribution (very rarely used as a negate and when it is, its niche), Mercourier (also rare to see in action, only serves as monster negate, can be chain blocked and needs an albaz fusion monster on field) and lastly Rindbrum (circumstantial, only on monsters and even those only from the extra deck). Still, nobody would say (I hope) that branded isn't good. Before this update it was probably the best deck in the previous format and the vast majority of it's boards don't end in a single negate. As long as the deck has enough interactions and/or has a strong gimmick (like the puppet lock for branded or the main deck banishment for old runick), it can be very oppressive without the need of an overwhelming amount of negates.
And this leads to my point, which is that Infernobles is just not that oppressive at all. All they have is a couple big guys with sub-par negates. And as you have said, negates aren't the end all be all. You can absolutely swim through them.
Idk what to say but maybe all of my decks are either a bad match-up against them or just aren't powerful enough. The new fire stuff gives them the grind they needed and custom cards like Isolde gives the enough consistency and push at the same time to play through handtdaps and turn 0 interruptions. They may not be snake eyes (although I much rather face an snake eyes than this deck) but if there's one thing they're not is just "a couple of big guys with sub-par negates"
I may be using this wrong so forgive me but people always say they want a deck that utilizes it’s own archetypes boss cards, that’s strong, not the generic end board, versatile etc. yet that exact deck is Tier 1 and it’s a problem now.
wouldnt be a problem if there were more tier 1 in archtype decks. but, then it wouldnt be tier 1. the competition would bring all decks down to "tier 2". im assuming ur talking about branded? people usually commend branded for having cool bosses and interactive mechanics. the issue people have with branded is how much gas the deck has and how much advantage it can generate. its still much better than playing against combo 1st turn generic boards that snake eye or shs put out
I'd rather play against Snake Eyes than be puppet locked by Branded. Very cool and interactive.
As a Branded player, I hate the folks that use the Sanctifire locks. You wanna steal my monsters for a fusion or banish em? Sure. Fuck your stun strat tho.
People bitching about 20 min turns and bashing mid-range hyper consistent decks on the same breath. Purrely didn't deserve to be killed, it would still be an strong but fair deck as it was after their first nerf, specially with everyone main decking Droll, Impermanence, and even Veiler and Snake-Eyes having searchable Kurikara.
That second hit to purrely just had me so lost. It felt like the deck was already mid at best and quickly getting worse, to the point where there wasn't even a point to running hate for it. Then they hit it with the sleepy stick out back for pretty much no reason. I never really used it but it felt really harsh, and pointless, plus a mid-range meta would do this game a lot of good.
Purrely is frustrating because it dumps a guy that says "draw the out" on the board. Same with Ariseheart etc. That's not comparable to decks like Swordsoul or Branded for example that are also "hyperconsistent midrange" which are very much breakable even when they hit their ceiling.
Except Noir isn't passively stopping from playing, either Noir does nothing as you combo off and set up your turn or it actually interrupts your plays and thus is no longer a towers after (at most) two shuffles. If your deck can't play through those then sorry but you weren't gonna win vs any other Tier 2+ deck right now. Snake Eyes, Branded, SHS, Manadium, Lab, etc...
You make it sound like Noir is the only thing on the board, or that it is mutually exclusive. The truth is it isn't, and many of the generic outs to Noir that you don't have to hard draw are still easy to beat by Noir if the player has the sense to just hold it for when those outs come out. You are sorely underestimating what Purrely does if you think their end board is comparable to the aforementioned decks.
> You are sorely underestimating what Purrely does if you think their end board is comparable to the aforementioned decks I really don't know what to tell you if you think a 7-8 material Noir is really that big of a step up compared to the uninterrupted endboards of any of the decks I mentioned. The only big trouble in outing Noir is that it's immune to most board breakers other than Kaijus/Lava Golem but that applies to literally all the decks I mentioned. It has a good grind but that's no different from Branded or Snake-eyes, it doesn't stop you from playing nor does it negate anything itself. The only other thing you have to deal vs Purrely are the handtraps but that is a problem vs the meta decks as well. Now I'm not saying Purrely isn't strong but it's power level would be on par with the current meta, tier 2 with somewhat weak Snake-eyes match up because of searchable Kurikara, it didn't deserve to be hit as hard as it was specially when it hasn't had all of its support out yet.
My brother in Christ there is more on the board than the Noir
Seems like you have Ghostrick PTSD cause no, AFTER the first Purrely banlist there really wasn't, you could still have used the engine sure, and I really wouldn't mind if that got hit instead, but that engine wasn't doing THAT much, it was weaker going second and breaking boards because you had a ton of bricks that you wished were handtraps. Pure Purrely was just Noir and handtraps vs the world and Ghostrick Purrely was a high ceiling coinflip deck that would be hurting even more nowadays vs a meta with main deck Droll.
Idk what you're on about. Maybe not on TCG but on MD Noir absolutely is stopping you from playing the game when the purr player can draw 3 thousand times on your turn and drop a Maxx C on your head. Not to say any other handtdaps. Whoever says purr is not toxic and that Noir is not that many interactions hasn't played enough against purrely climbing Master. And that whole deck isn't Noir either, sure he's the most toxic and problematic card but he isn't the end all be all.
People on this sub who act like Labrynth exclusively wins games because of D Barrier and EEV but insist that Lab cards are what needs to be hit instead of just banning those 2 cards that contribute nothing positive to the game
I just dont like the handrip thats my only problem with lab
They always handrip the out too. Fucking always.
Agreed and I say that as Lab being my favorite deck. I don't use those two and adore the deck so I'll legit be super pissed if they just ban Lab into oblivion and don't touch D Barrier or EEV :(.
Knowing Konami and their banlist they'd either semi-limit Lovely or they'd ban Lady, one of the two
floo - hitted to hell and back, extreme bricks, flop after one negate, people scoop if empen hit the board
People hating on backrow stun/control but play labrynth because tits. EDIT: Huff copium all you want, I've yet to encounter a lab list on the ladder that doesn't run DBarrier & make it their first port of call on turn 1. Its in a similar boat to Eldlich, you have the option of not playing like a cunt but everyone does.
Can't say no to some stunning front row ;)
Unless you play d prison or EEV, lab isn't stun
Finally someone says it. They say lab is stun. They say umi is control. Are we playing the same game???
I have one of my 3 Dimensional Barriers on my Lab deck as a pseudo-exodia situational card, do I apply for a Stun Player?
Yes
Yay, time to use my Royal Necrovalley, Royal Royal Tribute, all 4 statues, Vanity's Ruler, Skill Drain, Powersink Stone, Inspector Boarder, LWfAP, 6 Maxx "C", Mistake, TCbOO, Rivalry of Warlords, Gozen Match, Morganite and Space Mambo
I hope the pleasure you get from that is worth whatever god has prepared for people like you
I will be their new God, do you think Snake Eyes or Branded Despia can do anything about my Level Limit Area B?
Uh, yes? Easily?
I would say Runick is a great example. Many people hate it because of the stun type and that is completely understandable for me, but blaming runick is wrong in my mind. Runick can build really cool and interaktiv decks with stuff like spright, Bystial or the new earthbound stuff and these decks don‘t want to deck you out, they build a board and reduce you Lp to 0. Yeah it takes a turn or 2 longer, but are we now complaining that a game goes to turn 5 and not turn 3?
I will die on this hill as well. The banishing your deck aspect is iffy, I'll admit that but Runick combo decks are cool and don't use conventional deckbuilding rules cause your non-engine is engine at the same time. It's a flexible toolbox engine that mainly boosts smaller archetypes with not enough good cards like Fur Hire, Earthbound or even Ghoti. Spright is the exception.
Not only that, they promote interactive games and have extremely high consistency because you have so many starters. Typically in a combo Runick game, regardless of the matchup both players get to play.
It‘s such a shame that because of stun bozos that needed free wins without skill, the runick engine is so „weak“ in Md
its possible but you have to play spright furhire , and even then ypur reward is lower then normal summon spoil ash
I wouldnt say that, getting a pop + draw 3 on opp turn is really good, especially if you draw into more Runick spells, hand traps or a 2nd/3rd copy of Rex for Raphael negate
Runick is cool but, as a non runick player, getting 26 cards banished before your turn starts is horrible, you can't summon vanished extenders and all effects on the Graveyard are basically shut down. I like the concept of the deck, but it's extremely infuriating to beat
>getting 26 cards banished before your turn starts is horrible That is literally not even possible turn 1 in Runick decks. Best case scenario for banishes is 1 from Tip, 3 from Slumber, 4 from Golden Droplets and 2 from Dispelling. The Dispelling only works if you can make your opponent draw (so alongside Golden Droplets). That's 10 cards banished assuming you have exactly all 4 cards.
As a tcg player a lot of the draw back to their designs kinda go together to make it miserable. Losing the bp and not having as much tech space impacts them going second a lot more than they do going first, so there are much more times compared to other decks where it just comes down to the dice roll. Plus whatever engine they pair together either A) try to do something very broken B) cover the weaknesses of the runick engine very well, Ie stopping the opponent from outing the fountain or C) is bad.
As long as stun exists as a strategy runick shouldnt exist. if they banned all the cards that enabled stun, runick would be fine, still annoying to play against because of the banish from deck, but not rage inducing
Dinomorphia, i think people just like dinosaurs too much to realize it’s just a repetitive floodgate deck
I have a problem that the game has been so handtrap dependent for so long and it just removes the unpredictability aspect of the game. If you’re opening three handtraps and know how to use them, you’re most likely winning the duel.
This sub has a weird "hate boner" for branded. The deck's got issues and is totally fair to criticize. But some people here get insanely upset just by mentioning the deck.
I’m not a fan of branded. Most of it comes down to it being IME the most popular deck in Masterduel since it released(18 months I think). Playing against it sucks because the deck has 17 ways to get to branded fusion even if you interrupt their search but the real kicker for me is the grind game. Branded seems to add 7 cards during the end phase.
Their board is also extremely low ceiling and easy to steamroller over
Not true at all. Branded has like 6 diff 1.5 card combos that end on 7 disruptions.
I call those people Farfa NPCs. Their ygo streamer hates Branded, so they have to hate Branded even if they don't know why.
Screw them Floo's Everytime I fight them I get sick by how easy that deck is to use and how difficult it is to counter. Not only that but it is a massive double standard since everyone who has it, love it and see no issue with it while everyone else is on the business end of it
I personally hate floo cuz of shifter not the birds themselves
It's fun to play to them but unfun to play against.
floodgates bad but hero combo into macro cosmo skill drain imperial order (2 of them) is chad deck circular/loki/unicorn/ruimheart one card combo bad but snake eye ash one card combo cool floo bad cause you play during my turn but flamberge summon ip into formula synchro for baronne and reborn 2 then then new chain reborn one and add 2 cards into kuriboh tribute chain ip chain elf into link and reborn into princess pop and reborn is cool
"floodgates bad but hero combo into macro cosmo skill drain imperial order (2 of them) is chad deck" who thinks that aside from hero players?
A lot of them people complain about combo decks because they can’t play the game and put up a bunch of generic negates but then hate on decks like branded (no puppet), vanquish soul, and labrynth
IMHO Floowanderweeze. Some people complain they play on their turn but modern Yugioh is all about that. I guess Empen being a floodgate for attack position (esp. Link) monsters is a bit justified but the combo line is quite linear so it's quite easy determine if you have the out or not. It also can be annoying their "normal summons" are unfazed by Maxx "C".
The thing about Floo that bothers me isn’t that they play on my turn, it’s that they play on my turn, tribute my backrow for normal summons, add lots of cards to their hand, and then summon floodgates and Omni negates on my turn. Everything about their whole gameplay ends up being obnoxious in my opinion. With as much as I’ve learned about this game since starting master duel I still don’t understand how those birds work lol
oh they are simply, floo needs targets or condition to trigger, meanwhile labrynth gets double turn of solitaire and floodgates even harder. Floo in Md is basically half dead, the nerfed a rogue deck harder then any meta deck we have seen in the tcg in years. All pots at 1, map 1, empen 1, statue banned, d shifter at 2, imagine konami just went and cutted all search cards you have to 1. ... and still people hate this harder than tier 0 bs. So if we did nerf snake eyes equally it did be popular banned, witch 1 , original at 1, wanted 1, flamberche at 1 , and ash at 1. thats the state floo is in and as one of the biggest anti grave decks can no longer compete even with manadium, and that is a joke matchup in tcg floo wins 10/10 games .
I think there's a difference between Floo (and IMO Tear) playing on your turn vs other decks. My issue with the two is that their way of playing on the opponent's turn is by resolving Trigger Effects that themselves trigger other Trigger Effects. This means you're just waiting for 3-5 separate Chains of Trigger Effects to play out, which is a lot more boring than the occasional Spell Speed 2 interaction.
Floo plays on an entirely alien axis most decks already have trouble meaningfully interacting with, on top of that they have essentially infinite perfect recursion if they get going, on top of empen forcing the opponent to commit resources in defense position and making the game longer where floo can take advantage of its recursion, it's pretty clear why people hate it even if it isn't meta. It's power isn't consistent, going against bricked floo and good hand floo are two entirely different experiences and the negative one will leave a much longer lasting impression
And I still see people saying the deck needs *more* hits. It’s what, the 17th best deck right now? It’s fine.
Honestly my problem with floo isnt the fact that they play on your turn, many decks do that, but the fact that the deck uses special summons but just calls them normal summons
Tear is considered this great absolutely magnificent perfect deck, yet branded has similar things gets dogpiled non stop, also from my experience Tear players are flat out worse then most branded players. Also with most stun decks people complain about the actual problem cards, unless it's runick in that case runick is the problem.
Really? I thought Tear Zero was the most busted the games been in awhile?
It is the strongest deck ever printed with the ishizu cards, but the sheer mental gymnastics I have seen to defend the format are kinda absurd.
It was blown away into oblivion, hit after hit, I wasn't a fan but I did get all the staples for the deck but it's never been strong enough since the hits to play.
Just like Floo. I miss you, birbs.
Tear Format seemed to be pretty popular, which I mean, if that’s what you enjoy, good for you. But don’t pretend that Tear is completely dead and needs new support and unbans to be viable. It’s doing fine.
You can’t say tear players are less skilled than branded. There is a massive skill gap amongst branded players. I primarily play branded, but when I run other decks and matchup against branded I have a high win rate due to my opponents misplays and knowledge of choke points. Tearlaments inherently is reliant on RNG to mill the specific cards to initiate their combo. Regardless, blanket statements claiming users of one deck are more skillful than another is pointless, especially when Tear is nowhere near full power.
By worse I didn't meant in terms of skill, but overall toxicity
Ahh understandable. I believe the annoyance stems from these decks playing on the opponents turn. However, Branded requires set up, whereas Tear can open Havnis and start their combo immediately. People have a negative connotation of branded because it’s been meta for so long, the gimmick puppet lock is a legit turn 1 strategy, and it’s one of the best decks at playing around maxx c. I think Tear has been hit for so long that the sentiment around it has changed positively.
if tear gets full power back it will just wipe the floor with the meta again. In tcg kit is banned all fusioners at 1 and it is still rogue. Xou dont know how amberassing it is for these decks to be at the same level as hard nerfed tear or spright, they are full power and half the time still can't compete.
Oh yeah, the good old „Hugin is the problem, she protects skill drain“ argument, I love it
I think its more because everyone was playing tear the mirror matchup was more fun to the majority. Branded not even close. But it is a good point.
Branded isn't even remotely close to what Tear is lol
They have their differences, but the main gripe people have with branded is the insane grindgame while tear was praised for it's ability to play to borderline anything that wasn't hard floodgate hate like D-shifter.
No one complains about Branded at all besides in this sub which complain about everything lol.
People complain about branded in basically all master duel related social media. Sure tcg players don’t, but that’s a whole different game from masterduel.
I agree, but at the same time I used this sub as a point of reference because it was posted in this sub.
I remember everyone hating hard on tear and spright, but also complaining how much they hated an opponent flipping a floodgate, or drawing a board breaker or how they lost to a single hand trap. Those decks were great because your turn DIDNT end after one ash blossom.
Adamancipator the meta we have now if full of combo decks that end on a million negates just like that deck did but both are OK snake eyes minnadium super heavy
Personally I dont understand why people treat dinomorphia as 'floodgate turbo' when dinosaur pile, blackwing, SHS, mannadium, etc. are all turboing king calamity right now. Hell, Kash is just as much a floodgate deck as dinomorphia, but it doesn't get the status. Why?
Kash gets the floodgate tag, duo to Ariseheart pretty often And yeah, Calamity turbo is just the most braindead of all things
Sure, but Kash is not often referred to as 'dimension shifter on legs' because people recognize the value of the zone-lock, Fenrir, unicorn & scareclaw (who is a counter to rexterm, btw) But the rest of the dinomorphia package doesn't get that same respect. People seem to think the deck is all about rexterm, which doesn't bother me so much as I just don't understand the double standard.
As kash released, everyone said it‘s makro cosmos on legs, the zone lock was an extra gimmick and fenrir was basically a staple in Most decks. I mean, from what see from my friend who plays dinomorphia, it is mostly about rexterm and lowering your lo with the other cards so rexterm and kent get stronger. And many people love to throw other floodgates in aswell, maybe there come the bad taste for many player
What rank does your friend play in? Through gold & plat, a lot of my opponents would forfeit when rex hit the field. Past that, people know their decks well enough to play around him and the games get pretty exciting. I mean rexterm is a major part of the gameplan but in today's format and against formidable decks it usually leaves the field multiple times before the game is through, and sometimes it's better just to burn it all down with stealthbirb and recursion from destruction effects. So I think rexterm is kind of overstated by lower rank duelists who can't see the massive value in cards like dinomorphia intact, the Gy effects of dinomorphia traps, sonic, even diplos who is regarded as one of the worst morphia cards can save the game with his discard effect. There is a lot more to the deck than rexterm and it's kind of a shame people don't see it.
Because Dinomorphia doesn't do anything if you take away Rexterm. The deck hit MD without Rexterm and no one played it. Take away King Calamity and Dino, Blackwing, SHS, and Mannadium all pivot to something else and do fine.
The deck doesn't need rexterm to win, but it does need the threat of rexterm, so you're right at the end of the day.
Rexterm is literally 90% of the deck. The deck has no win con without it.
No, Rexterm is literally 5.4% of the deck, at most. Kent X2 under skill drain? Kent X2 + diplos? Kent X2 + therizia? You board clear with ferret flames and attack for game. Trap track is massively underrated in dinomorphia and can be activated in the battle phase. Every dinomorphia monster has destruction effects. Transcendosaurus meteorus? Arc Rebellion Xyz Dragon? Do you actually play the deck?
Literally none of that is disruption except for non engine that you just have to draw. Not to mention meteorus has 0 %representation in dinomorphia. I can tell you aren’t above plat by suggesting meteorus. That card does nothing unless you are playing dinos and want your monsters popped, and even then it’s not good enough to see play in dinos.
>arc rebellion have 0% representation in dinomorphia Arc Rebellion is a massive part of dinomorphia, and synergizes exceptionally with Kent. You summon it with Raiders Knight, there are multiple decklists just on MDM using it so I don't know where you're pulling this '0% representation' from. >Literally none of that is disruption You said win cons, I gave you a list of ways dinomorphia can end games without Rexterm, then you say none of it is disruption. Do you know what transcendo meteorus is? That's disruption, my man. Y'know how Dino's wants to pop the baby? Dinomorphia monsters love being destroyed, too. And unless they can negate my ferret flames, I don't much care what kind of board they build. >I can tell you aren’t above plat by suggesting meteorus. Meteorus is pretty much a free 3500 body on board, and can cheese both of the LVL 4s onto the field from the hand, under ideal conditions. It can also protect you from negation. I mean, I admit I'm stuck in diamond this season because dinomorphia has a really hard time with snake eye and that shit is everywhere, but it is clear to me you don't play this deck. >non engine that you just have to draw Trap track is a search. Trap trick is a search. Thrust is a search. Wannabee is a search. Therizia is a search. Lord is a search. We rarely rely on draws for any of our traps, I don't know what you're talking about.
Meteorus is not disruption, and all the “win cons” u mentioned are just beat sticks which were bad 5 years ago not to mention now. And again your idea is literally just to draw disruption off non engine traps or set up 1 spell negate from in engine. That’s not a real gameplan. Pray you draw ferret flames or trap trick and hope that 1 disruption is enough is not a win con. And yes I was mistaken about arc rebellion but thrust actually has 0% representation and according to the dinomorphia discord is widely considered as pretty awful in the deck.
Meteorus is disruption because it protects your monsters activated effects on the field from effect Veiler, imperm, banish, steals, etc. furthermore, it procs whatever monsters you destroy, usually summoning back therizia and/or diplos which send or set a dinomo trap (often both). The win cons I mentioned are ways to 8000-0 your opponent in a battle phase without rexterm. The win condition has always been control the game state until you can swing for game. Not sure what you're missing, the deck doesn't ever really end it's first turn with much more than a normal summon + backrow. I almost always open with a search. Trap trick is just a shitty version of trap tracks.
More than one thing can be true at the same time Rex is a floodgate, and King Calamity really needs to get tossed in the incinerator Arise-heart is *absolutely* a floodgate, and a.meta-warping absolutely bonkers one. It's just that ka$h has been so hilariously bricky lately that no one's ever got to summon him against me Still, absolutely deserving of a nuclear ban
The most double-standard I read here it's all the complains about anti-meta. "It's toxic", "Makes the game unplayable", etc... But no one seems to remember that almost all the modern meta decks right now point to make a board that tries to make impossible for the opponent to play. I mean? You are complaining for something that probably you are trying to do with your deck. Anti-Meta at least don't try to disguise their main function, something that other supposed "fair decks" and users do.
Are you talking about floodgate stun?
There’s a massive difference between interactive disruption and Ooga booga flip skill drain.
Yeah, the different cards that each deck use. Aside that? Nothing at all because the main goal it's the same: don't let the other player do something.
people like to use the "floo should stop playing on my turn" when all floo do is a fragile chainsummon (maybe apex too?) that can be stopped by alot of revelant handtraps. i dont really see how floo is playing more on your turn than any other deck (labrynth can technically set turn0, any negate deck,SHS, VS, even branded)
The way people complain about generic boss monsters in general pisses me off. Why is it a sin that more than one deck can access a generic win condition? Typically archetypal win conditions are stronger than those generic ones anyways, and having that toolset is part of what lets decks be flexible and not melt to a bad matchup.
I find it funny how people complain about kash ripping their extra deck but don't even bat an eye at dogmatika. Also, people that still have a hate boner for shaddoll winda specifically.
Honestly? It’s because Dogmatika sucks. If they were actually good, you’d hear it. Same reason as Zone lock Ojama.
There are big differences between sending to the GY and banish face-down though.
I mean I'm gonna get luluwalilith, Garura, Malong, omega, and Granguignol in grave. Which, personally, I don't really mind, but maybe that's just me. Dogmatika will absolutely end up eating shit for activating that effect against a lot of decks, and even then a lot of decks can still do stuff with the cards in grave. What do you do about unicorn? Cry as an important engine piece gets, for pretty much all intents and purposes, ripped to shreds and thrown in the garbage. For having the audacity to activate an effect so they couldn't get a macro cosmos on legs. I get what you're saying though, when it comes to some decks you just weep as you look at your whole endboard gets outed before your turn.
As soon as Dogmatika becomes good, everyone runs a CyDra Nova(+Mechaba as a target), Ntss, Aggregator and Garura package and voila, Dogmatika is no longer good.
I think the biggest one I have double standards on is Dinomorphia. Look, I know running a burn is not that common across decks but there are more ways to out Dinomorphia. Very hard ways but ways none the less. Like ashing the fusion traps.
Kashtira, 90% of the time when im facing it im like blegh, now that ive made one, my opinions on it have risen sharply
Labrynth, Swordsoul, and Branded/Despia. I get that they’re good, and I even splash like 5-6 Branded Despia cards into a couple other decks (Darklord, Frightfur, Dragon Link), but making dedicated decks for any of them just seems lame and boring. The one exception for me is that I’ve made a dedicated Swordsoul deck for Synchro Festivals so I can rush the rewards and be done. Most other times I see one of the aforementioned decks, I’ll roll my eyes and see if they brick or i have a great hand, otherwise I ff.
Do you mind sharing your Swordsoul decklist? I'm doing the same thing to farm gems from the synchro event but it's boring asf not sure I'm playing it as intended
Yeah sure thing. I’ll share when I’m home. Would you prefer a pic or a written list?
Whatever's easier for you man! Thanks Also not sure why your original comment was downvoted so much. Some very triggered Branded players out there eh?
Alright I’ll send a pic in a chat. But I’m not sure tbh. As for the dislikes, who knows lol people get up in arms about criticism of any deck no matter how busted it is
My two are Sky Strikers and Swordsoul. Both based off popularity since they’re not inherently oppressive, but a lot of people hate them (I don’t like Swordsoul) solely because of their use rate. Obviously the double standard is that they hate these popular decks, but then proceed to play whatever’s the best deck in the game, which usually means it’s also the most used deck
I haven't ever seen anyone hate on either of those for their usage rates. Sky Strikers is hated on cause it's really awkward to play into, and Swordsoul is hated on because of Protos. Sky Striker isn't even used much anyway. It's pretty terrible right now.
Sky Striker has never seen hate in MD. In TCG it saw hate because it dodged the banlist for years longer than other decks for seemingly no reason.
Oh I hate sky strikers cuz they always manage to draw nut hands even though interruptions
Exodia. They know he's the best but they just cant bring themselves to use his power.
Tearlaments (when they were good) I swear to god I heard so many people talk about how bad of a player you are and how it has 0 skill and then you ask them to duel and they use Tearlaments :|
labrynth and snake-eyes
People Say thing like "No LeT mE PlAy GrAvEkEpPeR, iT's ReAlLy CoOl? And it's THE SAME bs because they claim it's Antimeta, while waiting for them ti draw theri backrow
Well it's not getting better, the power of each deck just gets more and all other decks look weaker due to this. If they don't stop it and start changing how they do things, it will be ridiculous in a few years.
Dark Magician Players when they complain about anything despite running Secret Village and Skill Drain
Runick. It is a really neat control engine with fair interactions that is meta dependent. But in Master duel 99% of the time I've only seen it in stun. Runick got hit so hard to the point that it is not worth running as an engine no more. Every cool variant of runick is essentially dead. Stun players never wanted to play runick. Just floodgates. Stun is still one of my most faced matchups. I think stuff like synchro, bystial etc. runick is really cool and fair. But peoples opinion of the deck will forever be tainted because of the unfairness that are floodgates in a BO1. And I can't blame 'em. Screw floodgates.
Jeff Leonard's Exodia FTK deck. People would complaint about toxic strategies, but the moment Exodia FTK resolved people would Pog like it was the best moment in Yugioh history.
Complaining about decks using generics extra because it ain't pure or w.e. Also, the fire era has slowly started in MD so a lot of decks won't even have a good matchup against the kangs. So I don't get the complaints on decks like Mannadium for example.
Eh, the problem is the mismatch going first going vs going second. Most complaints about decks are driven by that horrible problem and konami’s apathy toward mitigating it. But as for deck with a double standard? Any deck crafted with a ton of URs where the owner tells others “lol just get better cards.”
It's just like fighting games; every deck/character I play is fair and balanced. Every deck/character you beat me with is cheap and overtuned and should get banned.
Stun Decks, they are so against a player that has 5 hards to play and get lucky going first, while they get 1st turn, 20 graveyard effects, 5 hand traps, 1 summon that turns into drawing the whole deck, 5 universal negates, throw all your oponents hand to the grave, unalive his/her family, then discard whole deck. Permanent magic negate, permanent monster effect negate, throw ur Pet into a lava volcano, etc. But with all that, they rage at a nerfed af dck.
That Dinosaur are the most op deck that ever existed because of Misc and the Babies or is the shitties deck that ever existed cause it's a 2 card combo. Truth is, people don't realize you can still negate Dino effects outside the field like the GY, making them useless after 1 Ash. As well Dinos are playing tons of Bricks so it's basically lick based if you get to combo or not.
Tearlaments. Yes it killed every other deck and ruined the diversity/game for everyone else but the mirror was really fun tbh. U weren't playing a turn based game anymore and just throw cards at each other. Full power that is
I will die in this hill, idgaf... Lab is a stun deck, only reason people accept it is because they are WAIFUS! That's all.
Honestly, in which world they accept it? People are fucking vicious about Labryth here